| 2025-10-14 00:00:25 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2025-10-14 00:01:00 +0200 | ystael_ | (~ystael@user/ystael) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 00:03:19 +0200 | Googulator30 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-10-14 00:06:59 +0200 | Googulator10 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 00:07:30 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 00:09:25 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:f86b:2618:bf3:3b08) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2025-10-14 00:11:30 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 00:12:37 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 00:15:38 +0200 | ec | (~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-10-14 00:16:33 +0200 | ec | (~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) ec |
| 2025-10-14 00:18:17 +0200 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 00:20:29 +0200 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell |
| 2025-10-14 00:23:15 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 00:30:11 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 00:33:46 +0200 | Square3 | (~Square@user/square) Square |
| 2025-10-14 00:33:55 +0200 | pera | (~pera@user/pera) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2025-10-14 00:37:14 +0200 | Square | (~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 00:41:17 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 00:45:35 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-172-222-148-214.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
| 2025-10-14 00:45:58 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 00:46:18 +0200 | tomku | (~tomku@user/tomku) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 00:46:51 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod |
| 2025-10-14 00:47:53 +0200 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 00:48:20 +0200 | tomku | (~tomku@user/tomku) tomku |
| 2025-10-14 00:51:02 +0200 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal |
| 2025-10-14 00:57:04 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 01:01:56 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 01:03:32 +0200 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2025-10-14 01:11:00 +0200 | Googulator30 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-10-14 01:11:02 +0200 | Googulator27 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-10-14 01:12:51 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 01:13:34 +0200 | emmanuelux | (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) emmanuelux |
| 2025-10-14 01:17:57 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 01:22:22 +0200 | Googulator5 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-10-14 01:25:43 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-172-222-148-214.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 01:25:51 +0200 | Googulator27 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 01:27:05 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 2025-10-14 01:30:11 +0200 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Quit: WeeChat 4.7.1) |
| 2025-10-14 01:31:07 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 01:35:55 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 01:40:37 +0200 | Googulator51 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-10-14 01:40:43 +0200 | Googulator5 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-10-14 01:41:14 +0200 | Adeon | (sid418992@id-418992.lymington.irccloud.com) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-10-14 01:41:26 +0200 | Adeon | (sid418992@id-418992.lymington.irccloud.com) Adeon |
| 2025-10-14 01:42:12 +0200 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell |
| 2025-10-14 01:46:30 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 01:48:42 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-187-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2025-10-14 01:49:21 +0200 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Quit: WeeChat 4.7.1) |
| 2025-10-14 01:50:01 +0200 | <dcpagan> | Codensity is missing a MonadError instance. |
| 2025-10-14 01:50:12 +0200 | <dcpagan> | I had to roll one up with this: "catchError m k = lift $ catchError (lowerCodensity m) (lowerCodensity . k)" |
| 2025-10-14 01:51:36 +0200 | <dcpagan> | Also, "shift" is defined as "shift f = Codensity (lowerCodensity . f)". I should look more into delimited continuations and their applications in exception-handling. |
| 2025-10-14 01:51:47 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 01:53:07 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod |
| 2025-10-14 02:02:18 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 02:07:55 +0200 | bgg | (~bgg@2a01:e0a:819:1510:438b:91ce:16bb:429f) |
| 2025-10-14 02:09:00 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 02:17:27 +0200 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah |
| 2025-10-14 02:18:13 +0200 | inline | (~inlinE@ip-178-202-059-161.um47.pools.vodafone-ip.de) Inline |
| 2025-10-14 02:20:20 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 02:25:13 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 02:26:02 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7171943fcd8740620ad93e7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 02:29:59 +0200 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-54-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-10-14 02:31:12 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 02:32:31 +0200 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-54-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2025-10-14 02:33:05 +0200 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-10-14 02:35:18 +0200 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) califx |
| 2025-10-14 02:35:59 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 02:36:43 +0200 | ttybitnik | (~ttybitnik@user/wolper) (Quit: Fading out...) |
| 2025-10-14 02:45:40 +0200 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-54-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 02:46:04 +0200 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-54-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2025-10-14 02:47:00 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 02:48:28 +0200 | otto_s | (~user@p4ff2701e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 02:50:19 +0200 | otto_s | (~user@p4ff27382.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2025-10-14 02:50:55 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:f3f6:c4a2:4d90:7f3d) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 02:51:53 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 02:59:28 +0200 | Square | (~Square4@user/square) Square |
| 2025-10-14 03:00:22 +0200 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 03:02:07 +0200 | Square3 | (~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 03:02:46 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 03:05:42 +0200 | Googulator67 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-10-14 03:06:11 +0200 | Googulator51 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-10-14 03:07:01 +0200 | vetkat | (~vetkat@user/vetkat) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 03:07:37 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 03:08:08 +0200 | vetkat | (~vetkat@user/vetkat) vetkat |
| 2025-10-14 03:11:42 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 03:18:11 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 03:23:01 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 03:28:08 +0200 | Dhark8 | (~Shark8@c-174-56-102-109.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 2025-10-14 03:29:30 +0200 | finsternis | (~X@23.226.237.192) finsternis |
| 2025-10-14 03:31:06 +0200 | Shark8 | (~Shark8@c-174-56-102-109.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 03:33:59 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 03:35:41 +0200 | Googulator67 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-10-14 03:35:42 +0200 | Googulator39 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-10-14 03:38:53 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 03:39:56 +0200 | Axman6 | (~Axman6@user/axman6) Axman6 |
| 2025-10-14 03:49:45 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 03:51:17 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) |
| 2025-10-14 03:56:27 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 03:57:47 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-172-222-148-214.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
| 2025-10-14 03:57:59 +0200 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell |
| 2025-10-14 04:00:56 +0200 | trickard_ | trickard |
| 2025-10-14 04:07:45 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 04:12:53 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 04:19:38 +0200 | haltsolver | (~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) |
| 2025-10-14 04:20:51 +0200 | Googulator39 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-10-14 04:20:51 +0200 | Googulator47 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-10-14 04:21:14 +0200 | Adeon | (sid418992@id-418992.lymington.irccloud.com) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-10-14 04:21:26 +0200 | Adeon | (sid418992@id-418992.lymington.irccloud.com) Adeon |
| 2025-10-14 04:23:32 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 04:24:14 +0200 | haltsolver | (~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 04:28:46 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 04:32:07 +0200 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 04:36:07 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i53870910.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 04:37:54 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i53870911.versanet.de) td_ |
| 2025-10-14 04:39:17 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 04:44:37 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 04:47:26 +0200 | califax_ | (~califax@user/califx) califx |
| 2025-10-14 04:48:10 +0200 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 04:48:39 +0200 | califax_ | califax |
| 2025-10-14 04:51:59 +0200 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-10-14 04:54:28 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-172-222-148-214.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 04:55:06 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 04:56:31 +0200 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 04:57:39 +0200 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect |
| 2025-10-14 05:00:12 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 05:10:53 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 05:14:12 +0200 | Square | (~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 05:17:34 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 05:18:16 +0200 | annamalai | (~annamalai@2409:4042:4e3c:ee1e::9e4a:2910) annamalai |
| 2025-10-14 05:19:19 +0200 | inline | (~inlinE@ip-178-202-059-161.um47.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 05:28:56 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 05:30:21 +0200 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell |
| 2025-10-14 05:33:55 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 05:44:43 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 05:49:47 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 06:00:12 +0200 | aforemny | (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cd9:6800:96c8:2246:a5e7:93e3) aforemny |
| 2025-10-14 06:00:14 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 06:01:41 +0200 | aforemny_ | (~aforemny@i59F4C4D3.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 06:05:05 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 06:08:49 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 06:13:34 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 06:19:36 +0200 | <jackdk> | Some libraries use MonadFail as an error-reporting mechanism, but I think this is a historical error. These days I'd only use MonadFail to handle pattern-match failures in do expressions |
| 2025-10-14 06:20:37 +0200 | Googulator1 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-10-14 06:20:51 +0200 | Googulator47 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-10-14 06:24:32 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 06:25:21 +0200 | craunts79533538 | (~craunts@136.158.7.194) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 2025-10-14 06:28:01 +0200 | craunts79533538 | (~craunts@136.158.7.194) |
| 2025-10-14 06:29:27 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 06:30:31 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-172-222-148-214.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
| 2025-10-14 06:33:34 +0200 | werneta | (~werneta@syn-071-083-160-242.res.spectrum.com) werneta |
| 2025-10-14 06:40:20 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 06:42:20 +0200 | rvalue- | (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) rvalue |
| 2025-10-14 06:42:21 +0200 | rvalue- | (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) (Excess Flood) |
| 2025-10-14 06:42:53 +0200 | rvalue- | (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) rvalue |
| 2025-10-14 06:42:54 +0200 | rvalue- | (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) (Excess Flood) |
| 2025-10-14 06:43:13 +0200 | rvalue | (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 06:45:20 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 06:46:11 +0200 | rvalue | (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) rvalue |
| 2025-10-14 06:46:12 +0200 | rvalue | (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) (Excess Flood) |
| 2025-10-14 06:49:31 +0200 | rvalue | (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) rvalue |
| 2025-10-14 06:49:36 +0200 | rvalue | (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) (Excess Flood) |
| 2025-10-14 06:50:02 +0200 | rvalue | (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) rvalue |
| 2025-10-14 06:50:03 +0200 | rvalue | (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) (Excess Flood) |
| 2025-10-14 06:50:37 +0200 | Googulator1 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-10-14 06:50:40 +0200 | Googulator97 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-10-14 06:56:07 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 06:56:22 +0200 | annamalai | (~annamalai@2409:4042:4e3c:ee1e::9e4a:2910) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2025-10-14 07:06:08 +0200 | craunts79533538 | (~craunts@136.158.7.194) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 2025-10-14 07:09:44 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-10-14 07:25:17 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 07:25:24 +0200 | Googulator97 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-10-14 07:25:36 +0200 | Googulator97 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
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| 2025-10-14 07:37:21 +0200 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Quit: WeeChat 4.7.1) |
| 2025-10-14 07:41:04 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-10-14 07:50:13 +0200 | <dminuoso> | jackdk: Regarding botan bindings, I think any approach focusing on native bindings to a cryptographic library is more healthy both on on a security perspective as well as future proofing. |
| 2025-10-14 07:50:20 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-10-14 07:51:02 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Especially since the crypton(ite) situation demonstrates, that even *if* we have some reliable cryptographic implementation it is dependent on probably just a single person. Having an ecosystem dependent on a bus-factor of 1 is just not healthy for the rest of hackage. |
| 2025-10-14 07:52:05 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Not entirely sure if your comment was hinting at paying the botan person to work on crypton instead for a while. |
| 2025-10-14 07:54:24 +0200 | <jackdk> | dminuoso: I agree with what you have written. I think binding a trusted native implementation is safer in the long run, and I am hopeful we can move the ecosystem onto something like botan one day |
| 2025-10-14 07:55:12 +0200 | <jackdk> | And to be clear, I do not think paying the botan person to shift to crypton would be a good idea |
| 2025-10-14 07:57:06 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-10-14 08:15:37 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
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| 2025-10-14 08:53:43 +0200 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Quit: WeeChat 4.7.1) |
| 2025-10-14 09:00:01 +0200 | caconym7478798 | (~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye) |
| 2025-10-14 09:00:21 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-10-14 09:26:17 +0200 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal |
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| 2025-10-14 09:38:44 +0200 | Adeon | (sid418992@id-418992.lymington.irccloud.com) (Server closed connection) |
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| 2025-10-14 09:58:54 +0200 | Googulator97 | Googulator |
| 2025-10-14 09:59:20 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 09:59:39 +0200 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Quit: Leaving...) |
| 2025-10-14 10:02:44 +0200 | tomsmeding | (~tomsmedin@user/tomsmeding) tomsmeding |
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| 2025-10-14 10:14:37 +0200 | Googulator | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-10-14 10:14:51 +0200 | Googulator | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-10-14 10:21:32 +0200 | adig | (~adi@86.123.72.40) adig |
| 2025-10-14 10:21:38 +0200 | comerijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 10:21:42 +0200 | adig | (~adi@86.123.72.40) () |
| 2025-10-14 10:22:40 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::10c5) fp |
| 2025-10-14 10:24:38 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
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| 2025-10-14 10:33:49 +0200 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937 |
| 2025-10-14 10:35:38 +0200 | Googulator | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-10-14 10:35:42 +0200 | Googulator66 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-10-14 10:37:47 +0200 | gustrb | (~gustrb@191.243.134.87) |
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| 2025-10-14 10:40:42 +0200 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) chele |
| 2025-10-14 10:42:52 +0200 | Googulator66 | Googulator |
| 2025-10-14 10:44:30 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 10:44:37 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e71719931c47ad226c4c8e20.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk |
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| 2025-10-14 10:48:32 +0200 | tzh | (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz) |
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| 2025-10-14 10:50:45 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 10:57:14 +0200 | adig | (~adi@86.123.72.40) adig |
| 2025-10-14 10:57:22 +0200 | adig | (~adi@86.123.72.40) () |
| 2025-10-14 11:02:51 +0200 | kuribas | (~user@2a02-1810-2825-6000-b5ac-98ee-b19a-ab1f.ip6.access.telenet.be) kuribas |
| 2025-10-14 11:04:18 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 11:05:43 +0200 | Googulator | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-10-14 11:05:47 +0200 | Googulator56 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-10-14 11:05:55 +0200 | Googulator56 | Googulator |
| 2025-10-14 11:07:58 +0200 | bgamari | (~bgamari@64.223.225.237) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 11:11:25 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 11:18:39 +0200 | OWS | (~Shark8@c-174-56-102-109.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 2025-10-14 11:19:51 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 11:20:25 +0200 | bgamari | (~bgamari@64.223.200.137) |
| 2025-10-14 11:21:51 +0200 | Dhark8 | (~Shark8@c-174-56-102-109.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 11:24:58 +0200 | mreh | (~matthew@host86-146-25-125.range86-146.btcentralplus.com) mreh |
| 2025-10-14 11:27:14 +0200 | <mreh> | Is there a Semigroup instance for Map that is based on `unionWith (<>)` before I implement my own? I can't find one already. |
| 2025-10-14 11:28:05 +0200 | bgamari | (~bgamari@64.223.200.137) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 11:28:20 +0200 | <mreh> | instance (Semigroup a, Ord k) => Semigroup (MergeMap k a) where MergeMap m <> MergeMap n = MergeMap $ unionWith (<>) m n |
| 2025-10-14 11:28:29 +0200 | <mreh> | seems to fit the bill for what I'm doing |
| 2025-10-14 11:28:43 +0200 | <merijn> | mreh: There is one, but it's inconvenient to use |
| 2025-10-14 11:28:56 +0200 | <mreh> | merijn: oh? |
| 2025-10-14 11:29:19 +0200 | <merijn> | I once tried to start a crusade to get the (imo more sensible) monoidal Map in containers, but no success |
| 2025-10-14 11:30:01 +0200 | <mreh> | merijn: intuitively, it feels like the right default |
| 2025-10-14 11:30:05 +0200 | <merijn> | mreh: There's like 3 or 4 libraries on Hackage that have monoidal map |
| 2025-10-14 11:30:08 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | there are various packages on hackage that implement a monoidal map |
| 2025-10-14 11:30:10 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | ^ |
| 2025-10-14 11:30:22 +0200 | <merijn> | In practice I tend to just do `unionWith (<>)` since it's more convenient |
| 2025-10-14 11:30:51 +0200 | <merijn> | But every single time I want to `foldMap` a `Map` I am once again confronted with the default monoid of Map being shite >.< |
| 2025-10-14 11:33:20 +0200 | Googulator | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-10-14 11:34:11 +0200 | Googulator | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-10-14 11:35:02 +0200 | bgamari | (~bgamari@64.223.200.74) |
| 2025-10-14 11:37:40 +0200 | <mreh> | oh yeah, it's too early, my eyes glazed over when reading Data.MonoidMap |
| 2025-10-14 11:38:12 +0200 | <mreh> | v interesting how get is total when a is a Moniod |
| 2025-10-14 11:46:48 +0200 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 11:51:00 +0200 | notzmv | (~umar@user/notzmv) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-10-14 11:52:53 +0200 | <dminuoso> | merijn: Honestly I think much of Haskell typeclasses would be far more usable if we had an ergonomic way of just picking/swapping out instances other than newtype wrappers. |
| 2025-10-14 11:53:24 +0200 | <dminuoso> | And yes, we'd give up guarantees on coherence that apply to some very obscure usecases... |
| 2025-10-14 11:54:15 +0200 | mochie | (~mochie@user/mochie) mochie |
| 2025-10-14 11:54:20 +0200 | <merijn> | dminuoso: Hard disagree |
| 2025-10-14 11:54:44 +0200 | <merijn> | I've been doing Scala for the past 2 years and the fact that implicit's let you do that is a giant nightmare |
| 2025-10-14 11:56:00 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Having all these newtypes with clear bias about what the author thought should be "the authoritative behavior for typeclass XYZ" is just annoying. |
| 2025-10-14 11:56:09 +0200 | dhil | (~dhil@5.151.29.137) dhil |
| 2025-10-14 11:56:26 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Some libraries are more honest like `time` where you just dont get Eq on some newtypes because there's two equally good possibilities. |
| 2025-10-14 11:58:06 +0200 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) califx |
| 2025-10-14 11:58:24 +0200 | <dminuoso> | merijn: I think it may be a tooling problem in scala if its unclear what implicit is in scope right now. |
| 2025-10-14 12:00:29 +0200 | <merijn> | My main tooling problem is sbt. I'd kill for cabal's speed xD |
| 2025-10-14 12:06:04 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> At least with newtypes unlike in rust you don't have problems that "fn(&MyType) -> &MyNewtype" is impossible to write |
| 2025-10-14 12:06:57 +0200 | mochie | (~mochie@user/mochie) () |
| 2025-10-14 12:08:27 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I find that where I use newtypes for their instances, it's usually not a bad ergonomic to write. Like "getProduct . foldMap Product" |
| 2025-10-14 12:09:16 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Would be cool if there was a combinator like "foldMap coerce" so that I only had to write the newtype name once |
| 2025-10-14 12:09:18 +0200 | <mreh> | shouldn't you use coerce and type applications in that case? |
| 2025-10-14 12:09:18 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) toonn |
| 2025-10-14 12:09:50 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I like being explicit |
| 2025-10-14 12:09:55 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 12:09:58 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Also is coerce in microhs? ;-) |
| 2025-10-14 12:10:26 +0200 | <mreh> | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
| 2025-10-14 12:10:52 +0200 | <mreh> | are type applications? |
| 2025-10-14 12:11:01 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> They at least are there |
| 2025-10-14 12:12:21 +0200 | divlamir | (~divlamir@user/divlamir) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-10-14 12:12:45 +0200 | divlamir | (~divlamir@user/divlamir) divlamir |
| 2025-10-14 12:14:34 +0200 | Adeon | (sid418992@id-418992.lymington.irccloud.com) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-10-14 12:14:46 +0200 | Adeon | (sid418992@id-418992.lymington.irccloud.com) Adeon |
| 2025-10-14 12:15:07 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 12:15:34 +0200 | <merijn> | coerce is good, but type applications is bad imo |
| 2025-10-14 12:16:02 +0200 | <merijn> | Ugly syntax and (worse) far too brittle in my opinion |
| 2025-10-14 12:20:08 +0200 | <merijn> | You're relying on the order of type variables as part of the public interface of a library (which basically no library author considers for PVP decisions) and unless the library author explicitly `forall`'s the type variables on every function that's dependent on the whims of GHC |
| 2025-10-14 12:20:20 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | type applications would be more robust if they're allowed only on functions with an explicit type variable ordering |
| 2025-10-14 12:20:29 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | but then nobody would have used it because of the chicken-egg problem |
| 2025-10-14 12:20:44 +0200 | <merijn> | Which is far from hypothetical, since we've already had at least one GHC release where a type system rejiggle changed the order of inferred variables, leading to breakage |
| 2025-10-14 12:25:52 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 12:33:31 +0200 | halloy7365 | (~halloy736@2404:4400:5446:4e00:c9d:2341:235f:e891) |
| 2025-10-14 12:38:24 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 12:44:10 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 12:47:44 +0200 | yegor | (~yegor@user/yegor) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in) |
| 2025-10-14 12:48:01 +0200 | yegor | (yegor@user/yegor) yegor |
| 2025-10-14 12:50:11 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
| 2025-10-14 12:52:48 +0200 | halloy7365 | (~halloy736@2404:4400:5446:4e00:c9d:2341:235f:e891) (Quit: halloy7365) |
| 2025-10-14 12:53:13 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen |
| 2025-10-14 12:54:55 +0200 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 13:00:05 +0200 | caconym7478798 | (~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye) |
| 2025-10-14 13:01:29 +0200 | caconym7478798 | (~caconym@user/caconym) caconym |
| 2025-10-14 13:08:24 +0200 | Zemy | (~Zemy@syn-076-184-041-021.res.spectrum.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-10-14 13:08:29 +0200 | Zemy_ | (~Zemy@2600:100c:b035:5997:18fe:25ff:fe03:e2c) |
| 2025-10-14 13:09:00 +0200 | Zemy | (~Zemy@syn-076-184-041-021.res.spectrum.com) |
| 2025-10-14 13:10:25 +0200 | MelodyOwO | (~MelodyOwO@user/MelodyOwO) MelodyOwO |
| 2025-10-14 13:12:57 +0200 | Zemy_ | (~Zemy@2600:100c:b035:5997:18fe:25ff:fe03:e2c) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 13:13:14 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Morj: Every time I stare at rust Im a bit confused how people willingly drift towards it. |
| 2025-10-14 13:16:21 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Every time I dabbled with it, it felt more like most rust idioms exist to please the borrow checker, not because it leads to good semantics that you can reason about. |
| 2025-10-14 13:16:37 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Even something mundane as writing a graph library is hell. |
| 2025-10-14 13:17:01 +0200 | <lortabac> | Morj: there is 'ala', which is in lens (and other packages too) |
| 2025-10-14 13:17:06 +0200 | <lortabac> | > ala Sum foldMap [1,2,3] |
| 2025-10-14 13:17:07 +0200 | <lambdabot> | 6 |
| 2025-10-14 13:17:30 +0200 | <dminuoso> | But maybe I haven't spent enough time with Rust yet, and you need a state of enlightenment before you can see it shine. |
| 2025-10-14 13:18:28 +0200 | peutri_ | (~peutri@bobo.desast.re) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 13:19:04 +0200 | <merijn> | dminuoso: It sounds like you just don't have the problems Rust solves |
| 2025-10-14 13:19:29 +0200 | <merijn> | dminuoso: Rust seems great IFF I couldn't afford a garbage collector/less explicit memory control |
| 2025-10-14 13:19:33 +0200 | <merijn> | dminuoso: If you |
| 2025-10-14 13:19:48 +0200 | <merijn> | If you're fine with GC and less memory control, you're better off just writing Haskell |
| 2025-10-14 13:20:01 +0200 | <merijn> | And 90-95% of code just does not require anything like that |
| 2025-10-14 13:20:14 +0200 | <dminuoso> | merijn: Maybe I'm just biased a bit *because* I have learned to work with C++ - in comparison Rust feels a lot more effort to avoid reference counting. |
| 2025-10-14 13:20:15 +0200 | <merijn> | So I've never had a real use case to use Rust |
| 2025-10-14 13:20:33 +0200 | <merijn> | dminuoso: I mean, you *can* just do reference counting in Rust afaik |
| 2025-10-14 13:20:49 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Sure, but then you wouldn't need to borrow references. |
| 2025-10-14 13:23:25 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:c19d:50a:4f2f:38d7) |
| 2025-10-14 13:27:12 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-10-14 13:28:00 +0200 | peutri | (~peutri@bobo.desast.re) peutri |
| 2025-10-14 13:31:33 +0200 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) chele |
| 2025-10-14 13:35:52 +0200 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 13:36:25 +0200 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life |
| 2025-10-14 13:43:03 +0200 | <jackdk> | merijn: Now that we have the machinery to deprecate instances, we could restart the crusade to fix the most cursed monoid instance |
| 2025-10-14 13:43:40 +0200 | <jackdk> | merijn: Also, we now have RequiredTypeArguments which makes it clearer when one is expected to pass an explicit type (as opposed to using haddocks or Proxy arguments) |
| 2025-10-14 13:44:01 +0200 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 13:44:50 +0200 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0 |
| 2025-10-14 13:46:07 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> lortabac oh thanks, I remember there was something, but couldn't recall. This is the one I thought about |
| 2025-10-14 13:46:41 +0200 | <lortabac> | jackdk: what is "the most cursed monoid instance"? |
| 2025-10-14 13:47:02 +0200 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-54-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-10-14 13:47:16 +0200 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-54-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2025-10-14 13:47:31 +0200 | <jackdk> | lortabac: I consider `instance Ord k => Monoid (Map k)` to be a massive footgun, and think `instance (Ord k, Semigroup v) => Monoid (Map k v)` to be a better canonical instance. |
| 2025-10-14 13:47:33 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> dminuoso It makes more sense to use rust if you're coming from c++. I don't think it's a good choice instead of haskell in most cases. I write rust at work nowadays: the high-perf libraries are great, the application around it could be improved a lot with a smart runtime and a gc |
| 2025-10-14 13:48:28 +0200 | <lortabac> | jackdk: thanks, I didn't even know that instance existed |
| 2025-10-14 13:48:47 +0200 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) user363627 |
| 2025-10-14 13:48:56 +0200 | Square | (~Square4@user/square) Square |
| 2025-10-14 13:49:15 +0200 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 13:49:28 +0200 | <jackdk> | lortabac: I consider it a footgun because it often does almost what you want: merge two maps together. But when keys clash it keeps the value in the left map, which is often surprising |
| 2025-10-14 13:50:25 +0200 | <lortabac> | indeed your proposal makes more sense |
| 2025-10-14 13:52:37 +0200 | <__monty__> | It's a useful behavior IMO, some languages have an operator for that kind of merging. |
| 2025-10-14 13:53:33 +0200 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0 |
| 2025-10-14 13:54:39 +0200 | <jackdk> | __monty__: People who want it will still be able to get it via `Map k (First v)` (`First` from `Data.Semigroup`) |
| 2025-10-14 13:55:39 +0200 | <lortabac> | it's useful but it doesn't make sense as a canonical instance |
| 2025-10-14 13:56:21 +0200 | <lortabac> | you can still make an operator with that behavior |
| 2025-10-14 13:59:35 +0200 | Zemy_ | (~Zemy@2600:100c:b035:5997:3087:68ff:feb8:f43e) |
| 2025-10-14 13:59:35 +0200 | Zemy | (~Zemy@syn-076-184-041-021.res.spectrum.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-10-14 14:00:02 +0200 | Zemy | (~Zemy@syn-076-184-041-021.res.spectrum.com) |
| 2025-10-14 14:00:51 +0200 | Zemy_ | (~Zemy@2600:100c:b035:5997:3087:68ff:feb8:f43e) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-10-14 14:08:24 +0200 | Googulator | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-10-14 14:08:41 +0200 | Googulator | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-10-14 14:10:04 +0200 | inline | (~inlinE@ip-178-202-059-161.um47.pools.vodafone-ip.de) Inline |
| 2025-10-14 14:11:02 +0200 | Zemy_ | (~Zemy@2600:100c:b035:5997:4c73:91ff:fe3e:e2e1) |
| 2025-10-14 14:11:02 +0200 | Zemy | (~Zemy@syn-076-184-041-021.res.spectrum.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-10-14 14:12:12 +0200 | Zemy | (~Zemy@syn-076-184-041-021.res.spectrum.com) |
| 2025-10-14 14:15:16 +0200 | Zemy_ | (~Zemy@2600:100c:b035:5997:4c73:91ff:fe3e:e2e1) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 14:16:29 +0200 | <mreh> | jackdk: what happened to Queensland FP? |
| 2025-10-14 14:17:42 +0200 | <mreh> | lack of funding? |
| 2025-10-14 14:19:26 +0200 | <jackdk> | mreh: Correct. Its funding was not renewed. The Brisbane Functional Programming Group, however, resurrected itself after the pandemic: https://bfpg.org |
| 2025-10-14 14:20:17 +0200 | <mreh> | jackdk: cool, I enjoyed that talk you gave on reflex a while back |
| 2025-10-14 14:22:19 +0200 | <jackdk> | mreh: Thanks, that's good of you to say |
| 2025-10-14 14:24:04 +0200 | <mreh> | recognised the name |
| 2025-10-14 14:25:09 +0200 | inline | (~inlinE@ip-178-202-059-161.um47.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2025-10-14 14:25:16 +0200 | mreh | wishes there was a Haskell meetup in London again |
| 2025-10-14 14:25:23 +0200 | <merijn> | jackdk: You've got my signature :p |
| 2025-10-14 14:25:27 +0200 | rvalue | (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) rvalue |
| 2025-10-14 14:25:29 +0200 | rvalue | (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) (Excess Flood) |
| 2025-10-14 14:25:37 +0200 | Googulator | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-10-14 14:25:39 +0200 | Googulator81 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-10-14 14:25:55 +0200 | <merijn> | __monty__: It's useful, but not AS useful as the semigroup version |
| 2025-10-14 14:26:07 +0200 | <merijn> | __monty__: I've used the semigroup monoid on Map hundreds of times |
| 2025-10-14 14:26:13 +0200 | <merijn> | The left-biased merge never |
| 2025-10-14 14:26:22 +0200 | <merijn> | And when you want that you can just use `unions` |
| 2025-10-14 14:27:01 +0200 | <jackdk> | mreh: I would've thought there'd be a fair number of Haskellers in London? |
| 2025-10-14 14:27:23 +0200 | <mreh> | there's no "just use" when you're using a Map in Writer :'( |
| 2025-10-14 14:27:53 +0200 | <merijn> | mreh: Yes there is |
| 2025-10-14 14:28:03 +0200 | <merijn> | mreh: It's called "Map k (First v)" |
| 2025-10-14 14:28:36 +0200 | <merijn> | So the current behaviour is trivially reconstructible via a newtype wrapper on values |
| 2025-10-14 14:28:49 +0200 | rvalue | (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) rvalue |
| 2025-10-14 14:28:50 +0200 | rvalue | (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) (Excess Flood) |
| 2025-10-14 14:29:30 +0200 | <mreh> | that's true |
| 2025-10-14 14:31:34 +0200 | <mreh> | jackdk: I went to a meetup maybe 10 years ago, it's since folded |
| 2025-10-14 14:31:52 +0200 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-54-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 14:32:08 +0200 | <merijn> | mreh: Yet another reason, the Semigroup version is superior :p |
| 2025-10-14 14:32:19 +0200 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-54-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2025-10-14 14:34:01 +0200 | rvalue | (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) rvalue |
| 2025-10-14 14:36:42 +0200 | ski | . o O ( <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoid_ring> ) |
| 2025-10-14 14:43:55 +0200 | rvalue | (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) (Quit: bmV2ZXJnb25uYWdpdmV5b3V1cG5ldmVyZ29ubmFsZXR5b3Vkb3du) |
| 2025-10-14 14:44:43 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | ski: why does that not open with "a monoid ring is a formal polynomial ring in a monoid with coefficient from a ring" |
| 2025-10-14 14:45:42 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | perhaps that would be too "monoid in the category of endofunctors" for wikipedia |
| 2025-10-14 14:46:05 +0200 | Googulator75 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-10-14 14:46:12 +0200 | rvalue | (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) rvalue |
| 2025-10-14 14:46:14 +0200 | Googulator81 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-10-14 14:50:46 +0200 | Googulator49 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-10-14 14:50:50 +0200 | Googulator75 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-10-14 15:00:52 +0200 | Googulator49 | Googulator |
| 2025-10-14 15:03:45 +0200 | inline | (~inlinE@ip-178-202-059-161.um47.pools.vodafone-ip.de) Inline |
| 2025-10-14 15:05:42 +0200 | kuribas | (~user@2a02-1810-2825-6000-b5ac-98ee-b19a-ab1f.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 15:07:37 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 15:14:49 +0200 | luna___ | (~luna@fedora/bittin) bittin |
| 2025-10-14 15:15:49 +0200 | Googulator6 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-10-14 15:16:13 +0200 | Googulator | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-10-14 15:17:36 +0200 | inline | (~inlinE@ip-178-202-059-161.um47.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 15:17:53 +0200 | inline | (~inlinE@ip-178-202-059-142.um47.pools.vodafone-ip.de) Inline |
| 2025-10-14 15:25:59 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) bitdex |
| 2025-10-14 15:28:44 +0200 | <ski> | tomsmeding : i guess saying "polynomial" implies that the monoid is the free (commutative) monoid (hm, for "formal polynomial", would that be cofree monoid ?) |
| 2025-10-14 15:30:07 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-10-14 15:30:45 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) bitdex |
| 2025-10-14 15:44:10 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | ski: well, the article does say that the polynomials are formal ("set of formal sums") |
| 2025-10-14 15:44:33 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | so whether the elements of G do something with each other is not relevant for how many elements rae in R[G], it seems |
| 2025-10-14 15:44:58 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | if the sums weren't formal, this would be a module, would it not? |
| 2025-10-14 15:45:00 +0200 | ystael | (~ystael@user/ystael) ystael |
| 2025-10-14 15:45:50 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | (I guess it would be a "monoid module") |
| 2025-10-14 15:50:20 +0200 | <ski> | "More formally, `R[G]' is the free `R'-module on the set `G', endowed with `R'-linear multiplication defined on the base elements by `g·h := gh', where the left-hand side is understood as the multiplication in `R[G]' and the right-hand side is understood in `G'." |
| 2025-10-14 15:51:30 +0200 | <ski> | "so whether the elements of G do something with each other is not relevant for how many elements rae in R[G], it seems" -- it affects multiplication of them, yea |
| 2025-10-14 15:51:33 +0200 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-10-14 15:53:47 +0200 | <ski> | instead of combining monomials like `x * y^2' and `x^3 * z' into `x^4 * y^2 * z', amounting to bag/multiset merging (multiplication in the free commutative monoid), you get a not-necessarily-injective multiplication in the monoid |
| 2025-10-14 15:56:59 +0200 | <ski> | (and yea, i was reminded of this, by the talk about `Monoid (Map k v)'. if we ignore the multiplication (and subtraction/negation) in the monoid ring, then `k' corresponds to the set of indeterminates (generators) in the "polynomials", and `v' corresponds to the monoid of coefficients) |
| 2025-10-14 15:58:08 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | ski: "not-necessarily-injective" -- ah! right |
| 2025-10-14 15:59:36 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | thanks :) |
| 2025-10-14 16:01:19 +0200 | <ski> | the "formal" here means that when we write a (finite) sum of products of monoid elements and associated coefficients, this is just a suggestive notation for having a function from the monoid elements to the coefficients, with "finite support" (meaning only finitely many monoid elements map to non-zero coefficients) |
| 2025-10-14 16:02:33 +0200 | <ski> | (iirc, in some rings, (ordinary) polynomials can be distinct (having distinct coefficients), while still having the same value at each possible input (being extensionally equal, the corresponding functions to the polynomials being equal)) |
| 2025-10-14 16:02:37 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::10c5) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 16:05:05 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | polynomials on Z/2Z have a bunch of such "redundancies" |
| 2025-10-14 16:06:11 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | but yeah I see where my understanding went wrong: I wasn't properly thinking about the fact that this R[G] is supposed to be a _ring_, and what the multiplication operation ought to do |
| 2025-10-14 16:06:35 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | then the structure of the monoid suddenly comes into play |
| 2025-10-14 16:07:18 +0200 | inline | (~inlinE@ip-178-202-059-142.um47.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 16:07:48 +0200 | inline | (~inlinE@ip-178-202-059-161.um47.pools.vodafone-ip.de) Inline |
| 2025-10-14 16:08:42 +0200 | MelodyOwO | (~MelodyOwO@user/MelodyOwO) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2025-10-14 16:09:35 +0200 | <ski> | (oh, and when i said "formal polynomial", above, i had "formal power series in mind" .. so wondering whether that would involve a cofree, rather than free, monoid. cf. how direct sum (categorical coproduct) and direct product (categorical product) for *commutative* groups (as well as monoids) coincide, for a *finite* family of groups (or monoids), but are distinct for an infinite family. difference is that |
| 2025-10-14 16:09:41 +0200 | <ski> | the direct sum case involves a function, with *finite support*, from the family indices to elements of the corresponding groups (monoids), while for direct product, it's arbitrary such functions. for arbitrary (not necessarily commutative/abelian) groups (monoids), though, the categorical coproduct case (called "free product") becomes a larger object. `g_0 * h * g_1' is no longer equal to `(g_0 * g_1) * h', |
| 2025-10-14 16:09:47 +0200 | <ski> | so you can no longer keep track of a single element per group (monoid)) |
| 2025-10-14 16:10:58 +0200 | <ski> | now .. is there a use case for wanting to multiply `Map k v's, given `Monoid k' ? |
| 2025-10-14 16:12:21 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | feels a bit far-fetched to me, not least because the result "invents new keys" that were not there in the original |
| 2025-10-14 16:12:30 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | *originals |
| 2025-10-14 16:12:57 +0200 | <ski> | yea .. it kinda has a "tensor feel" |
| 2025-10-14 16:13:25 +0200 | <ski> | wanting all combinations of the keys in one map, with the keys in the other map |
| 2025-10-14 16:13:30 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | yes, the other problem is that the maps get very big this way |
| 2025-10-14 16:13:42 +0200 | <ski> | right |
| 2025-10-14 16:13:43 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | that's not usually what you want in practice |
| 2025-10-14 16:14:01 +0200 | <ski> | unless the key monoid is highly non-injective, i guess |
| 2025-10-14 16:14:29 +0200 | <ski> | like, the keys are lists, bags, or sets ? |
| 2025-10-14 16:14:50 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | aren't those free and thus very injective? |
| 2025-10-14 16:14:57 +0200 | <ski> | or `Sum a' or `Product a' |
| 2025-10-14 16:15:12 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | even with Sum/Product the maps still grow quadratically |
| 2025-10-14 16:15:31 +0200 | <ski> | mm, right, scratch the "lists" |
| 2025-10-14 16:16:15 +0200 | luna___ | (~luna@fedora/bittin) () |
| 2025-10-14 16:16:19 +0200 | <ski> | ((finite) bags are free *commutative* monoids. (finite) sets are free *commutative* *idempotent* monoids) |
| 2025-10-14 16:16:23 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | furthermore, for this to be useful as an abstraction, I'd expect the operation to be used more than, say, once in a program |
| 2025-10-14 16:16:46 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | something which makes a datastructure grow quadratically in size is not something you use very often |
| 2025-10-14 16:16:47 +0200 | <ski> | yes |
| 2025-10-14 16:17:08 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | yes I know that bags/sets are not quite free |
| 2025-10-14 16:17:29 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | hm, I guess subsets of a very small universe set could have the required very-non-injective property |
| 2025-10-14 16:17:29 +0200 | <ski> | it might be useful to want a (lower approximation to) division, wrt this multiplication |
| 2025-10-14 16:17:43 +0200 | inline | (~inlinE@ip-178-202-059-161.um47.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-10-14 16:17:58 +0200 | <ski> | like, how in relational algebra, division of relations is useful to express queries of the form "for all ..., ..." |
| 2025-10-14 16:20:03 +0200 | <ski> | hmm .. `Map (k0,k1) v -> Map k0 v -> Map k1 v' would be a similar operation |
| 2025-10-14 16:20:32 +0200 | <ski> | "bags/sets are not quite free" -- they are free, just not free *plain* monoids |
| 2025-10-14 16:21:02 +0200 | tomsmeding | has to go, sorry |
| 2025-10-14 16:22:36 +0200 | <ski> | ("free" is relative to the target category (monoids, commutative monoids, commutative idempotent monoids, ..), and also to the source category (sets, monoids, ..). "free commutative monoid on a monoid" means we force multiplication to be commutative, generally causing a lot of previously distinct elements to now be identified with each other. the "abelianization" of a monoid) |
| 2025-10-14 16:22:49 +0200 | <ski> | no worries. was fun to ponder a bit |
| 2025-10-14 16:24:21 +0200 | Beowulf | (florian@2a01:4f9:3b:2d56::2) (Quit: = "") |
| 2025-10-14 16:24:58 +0200 | mochie | (~mochie@user/mochie) mochie |
| 2025-10-14 16:27:04 +0200 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) Unicorn_Princess |
| 2025-10-14 16:29:48 +0200 | Beowulf | (florian@2a01:4f9:3b:2d56::2) |
| 2025-10-14 16:35:36 +0200 | Googulator6 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-10-14 16:35:38 +0200 | Googulator18 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-10-14 16:38:55 +0200 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-54-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-10-14 16:39:08 +0200 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-54-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2025-10-14 16:41:44 +0200 | jreicher | (~user@user/jreicher) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 16:47:26 +0200 | Square3 | (~Square@user/square) Square |
| 2025-10-14 17:02:47 +0200 | Zemy_ | (~Zemy@2600:100c:b0a0:3fd9:78c1:9aff:fe21:5d9e) |
| 2025-10-14 17:03:57 +0200 | infinity0 | (~infinity0@pwned.gg) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 17:05:15 +0200 | mreh | (~matthew@host86-146-25-125.range86-146.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 17:06:24 +0200 | Zemy | (~Zemy@syn-076-184-041-021.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 17:06:27 +0200 | gustrb | (~gustrb@191.243.134.87) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 17:09:48 +0200 | dhil | (~dhil@5.151.29.137) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-10-14 17:10:13 +0200 | inline | (~inlinE@ip-178-202-059-161.um47.pools.vodafone-ip.de) Inline |
| 2025-10-14 17:13:55 +0200 | mreh | (~matthew@host86-146-25-125.range86-146.btcentralplus.com) |
| 2025-10-14 17:15:35 +0200 | Zemy | (~Zemy@12.218.191.128) |
| 2025-10-14 17:16:54 +0200 | bitterx | (~marko@user/bitterx) (Quit: bitterx) |
| 2025-10-14 17:18:42 +0200 | Zemy_ | (~Zemy@2600:100c:b0a0:3fd9:78c1:9aff:fe21:5d9e) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 17:20:43 +0200 | Tri | (~tnguyen@69.74.159.34) |
| 2025-10-14 17:21:57 +0200 | <Tri> | I'm a haskell beginner, I've written a small program. Could someone review my code please? Thank you https://paste.tomsmeding.com/2dnXN2fo |
| 2025-10-14 17:24:56 +0200 | infinity0 | (~infinity0@pwned.gg) infinity0 |
| 2025-10-14 17:25:45 +0200 | <int-e> | > groupBy (==) [1,2,1] |
| 2025-10-14 17:25:47 +0200 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 2025-10-14 17:25:47 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Ambiguous occurrence ‘groupBy’ |
| 2025-10-14 17:25:47 +0200 | <lambdabot> | It could refer to |
| 2025-10-14 17:25:56 +0200 | <int-e> | @undefine |
| 2025-10-14 17:25:56 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Undefined. |
| 2025-10-14 17:25:58 +0200 | <int-e> | > groupBy (==) [1,2,1] |
| 2025-10-14 17:26:00 +0200 | <lambdabot> | [[1],[2],[1]] |
| 2025-10-14 17:26:41 +0200 | <int-e> | (also, shouldn't most of this work be done in SQL instead...) |
| 2025-10-14 17:27:54 +0200 | <Tri> | I never think about it, but I prefer to not use SQL |
| 2025-10-14 17:28:01 +0200 | Shark8 | (~Shark8@c-174-56-102-109.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 2025-10-14 17:28:29 +0200 | Square3 | (~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 17:29:03 +0200 | Square | (~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 17:30:21 +0200 | inline | (~inlinE@ip-178-202-059-161.um47.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 17:30:57 +0200 | OWS | (~Shark8@c-174-56-102-109.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 17:31:14 +0200 | Inline | (~inlinE@ip-178-202-059-161.um47.pools.vodafone-ip.de) Inline |
| 2025-10-14 17:31:55 +0200 | Shark8 | (~Shark8@c-174-56-102-109.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-10-14 17:32:19 +0200 | Shark8 | (~Shark8@c-174-56-102-109.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 2025-10-14 17:35:57 +0200 | gustrb | (~gustrb@191.243.134.87) |
| 2025-10-14 17:40:29 +0200 | <int-e> | ...why are you asking for a code review on code that doesn't even compile. |
| 2025-10-14 17:41:41 +0200 | <[exa]> | Tri: you might want to join all the isWhateverOverlapping into a single function |
| 2025-10-14 17:42:20 +0200 | int-e | is going to mention that half of those predicates aren't transitive and leave it at that. |
| 2025-10-14 17:43:33 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2025-10-14 17:47:14 +0200 | <Tri> | int-e, oh it didn't? I'm sorry let me double check, it compiles on my local, I've been running it. I've copied it across different forums to ask for suggestions, so I may have added/dropped something. |
| 2025-10-14 17:50:13 +0200 | <Tri> | int-e, I just copy-pasted code from that link and recompile, it was fine. Perhaps you missed some package? Here is my cabal https://paste.tomsmeding.com/CLDOLEXr |
| 2025-10-14 17:51:13 +0200 | <Tri> | int-e, I didn't give you this, sorry https://paste.tomsmeding.com/Zj0uN9k7 |
| 2025-10-14 17:52:37 +0200 | <int-e> | Oh, my bad. I thought startData and endDate would have the same type. |
| 2025-10-14 17:52:39 +0200 | <Tri> | [exa], I think haskell has some concept to compose them, but I don't know what. I would like to string them together from small functions, not combine them into a big function, because I still want to use these small functions separately |
| 2025-10-14 17:53:02 +0200 | <Tri> | int-e, all good, thank you for checking |
| 2025-10-14 17:54:22 +0200 | <Tri> | maybe next time I will just make a repo for this for reviewer's convenience, the main.hs has the core logic so I only quickly pasted it into tomsmeding and ask for review |
| 2025-10-14 17:54:23 +0200 | <[exa]> | Tri: I like to do e.g. this: isOverlapping a b = and [something a == something b, condition2, condition3, ...] |
| 2025-10-14 17:56:25 +0200 | divya | (divya@140.238.251.170) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 17:57:32 +0200 | <Tri> | [exa], that's pretty neat. Thank you. Does Haskell have something that's even more expressive? I at least I could re-code my function, so that they can be compose like overlappingA >>> overlappingB >>> overlappingC >>> overlappingD, and just short-circuit on the first fail function. This looks a lot like bind in monad to me |
| 2025-10-14 17:58:10 +0200 | <geekosaur> | Alternative? |
| 2025-10-14 17:59:18 +0200 | <Tri> | let me look into that, I wonder if it works if my data doesn't have a monad structure |
| 2025-10-14 17:59:19 +0200 | <[exa]> | Tri: like, you can put literal && in between the conditions, I used a list because it formats nicely if you have many conditions |
| 2025-10-14 17:59:43 +0200 | <geekosaur> | Alternative only requires Applicative, not Monad |
| 2025-10-14 17:59:47 +0200 | <[exa]> | saying "we have a list of conditions" and meaning an actual list counts. :) |
| 2025-10-14 18:00:14 +0200 | <geekosaur> | and yes, if it's just a list of conditions you don't need either |
| 2025-10-14 18:00:19 +0200 | <Tri> | ok I will look into them. Thank you |
| 2025-10-14 18:03:20 +0200 | <ski> | Tri : define your own custom display function, rather than using `Show' instance to portray in a custom format |
| 2025-10-14 18:03:38 +0200 | mari-estel | (~mari-este@user/mari-estel) mari-estel |
| 2025-10-14 18:04:39 +0200 | Zemy_ | (~Zemy@2600:100c:b0a0:3fd9:1cfb:70ff:feac:dc0e) |
| 2025-10-14 18:04:40 +0200 | Zemy | (~Zemy@12.218.191.128) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-10-14 18:05:09 +0200 | Zemy | (~Zemy@syn-067-078-059-246.biz.spectrum.com) |
| 2025-10-14 18:05:54 +0200 | <Tri> | [exa], my code is already using &&. I just find passing in the 2 parameters on every function check very clunky. I found this is pretty idiomatic https://paste.tomsmeding.com/98dJNMNB |
| 2025-10-14 18:06:24 +0200 | <ski> | Tri : instead of using `case'-`of' in `isDateRangeOverlapping', you can use `all' |
| 2025-10-14 18:06:53 +0200 | <ski> | ditto for `isConditionOverlapping' |
| 2025-10-14 18:07:11 +0200 | <ski> | oh, and `isAssetOverlapping' |
| 2025-10-14 18:07:49 +0200 | <Tri> | geekosaur, if I use Alternative, I need to modify my functions signature to return an Applicative structure, which is fine, but then it's bending the business logic, which I don't like. I want to keep the intent clear: return a Bool meaning it's either overlapping or not |
| 2025-10-14 18:08:25 +0200 | <EvanR> | there's so many ways to skin this one |
| 2025-10-14 18:08:34 +0200 | <EvanR> | @src and |
| 2025-10-14 18:08:34 +0200 | <lambdabot> | and = foldr (&&) True |
| 2025-10-14 18:08:58 +0200 | Zemy_ | (~Zemy@2600:100c:b0a0:3fd9:1cfb:70ff:feac:dc0e) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 18:09:42 +0200 | <Tri> | I've got to get back to my job a bit, thank you everyone, I will get back later |
| 2025-10-14 18:09:56 +0200 | <EvanR> | :t zipWith uncurry |
| 2025-10-14 18:09:57 +0200 | <lambdabot> | [a -> b -> c] -> [(a, b)] -> [c] |
| 2025-10-14 18:10:30 +0200 | gustrb | (~gustrb@191.243.134.87) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 18:10:47 +0200 | Googulator18 | Googulator |
| 2025-10-14 18:12:51 +0200 | tomboy64 | (~tomboy64@user/tomboy64) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 18:13:40 +0200 | <EvanR> | and I'm not sure there's a meaningful difference between anding by chaining && or and on an explicit list (chaining commas) |
| 2025-10-14 18:14:18 +0200 | <ski> | groupBy (\x y -> and [f x y | f <- [isIssuerOverlapping,isAssetOverlapping,isConditionOverlapping,isDateRangeOverlapping,isTargetColumnOverlapping]]) |
| 2025-10-14 18:14:37 +0200 | <ski> | using `<>' with `All' seems rather clunky here, unfortunately .. |
| 2025-10-14 18:14:58 +0200 | <Tri> | thank you for your help, I will get back to read your comments later |
| 2025-10-14 18:15:23 +0200 | tomboy64 | (~tomboy64@user/tomboy64) tomboy64 |
| 2025-10-14 18:15:38 +0200 | Googulator26 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-10-14 18:15:38 +0200 | Googulator | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-10-14 18:16:10 +0200 | <ski> | Tri : `Show' and `Read' are intended to work together with instances for other types. for this reason, it is confusing to have them handle non-Haskell syntax, hence why i suggested making a separate function for your custom (non-Haskell syntax) formatting |
| 2025-10-14 18:17:50 +0200 | divya | (divya@140.238.251.170) divya |
| 2025-10-14 18:17:54 +0200 | <ski> | Tri : "Does Haskell have something that's even more expressive? I at least I could re-code my function, so that they can be compose like overlappingA >>> overlappingB >>> overlappingC >>> overlappingD, and just short-circuit on the first fail function. This looks a lot like bind in monad to me" -- in the case where you'd use `<>' (rather than `&&'), this works fine |
| 2025-10-14 18:18:38 +0200 | <EvanR> | because a monoid is just a category with one object? |
| 2025-10-14 18:19:39 +0200 | <ski> | > sortBy (comparing length <> compare) (words "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog") -- sort primarily by length, and only secondarily lexicographically |
| 2025-10-14 18:19:41 +0200 | <lambdabot> | ["The","dog","fox","the","lazy","over","brown","jumps","quick"] |
| 2025-10-14 18:19:44 +0200 | <ski> | @where monoids |
| 2025-10-14 18:19:44 +0200 | <lambdabot> | comment on "Monoids? In my programming language?" by Cale in 2008 (or 2009 ?) at <http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/7cf4r/monoids_in_my_programming_language/c06adnx> about a use of ` |
| 2025-10-14 18:19:44 +0200 | <lambdabot> | instance Monoid a => Monoid (rho -> a)' |
| 2025-10-14 18:21:00 +0200 | <ski> | EvanR : because for a lot of algebraic structures (including monoids), if `A' is an algebra, then `A^R' / `R -> A' is also an algebra, for any set `R', with operations defined pointwise/coordinatewise |
| 2025-10-14 18:22:45 +0200 | raym | (~ray@user/raym) raym |
| 2025-10-14 18:22:55 +0200 | <ski> | ah, i see you did the above (list comprehension), with `condList' |
| 2025-10-14 18:23:10 +0200 | gustrb | (~gustrb@191.243.134.87) |
| 2025-10-14 18:25:29 +0200 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-54-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-10-14 18:25:42 +0200 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-54-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2025-10-14 18:25:50 +0200 | <geekosaur> | can I suggest that side comments about advanced topics go to #haskell-in-depth so they don't confuse the original asker? |
| 2025-10-14 18:26:26 +0200 | <geekosaur> | we do have this tendency for simple questions to get diverted into advanced algebra or CT |
| 2025-10-14 18:27:31 +0200 | <ski> | (that's called a "power object", btw, in CT. it's an `R'-fold indexed categorical product, with all factors being `A'. a "copower object" (or "multiple/scaled object" ?) is the dual case, for categorical coproducts (sums)) |
| 2025-10-14 18:27:57 +0200 | <ski> | sure |
| 2025-10-14 18:30:37 +0200 | Googulator3 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-10-14 18:30:39 +0200 | Googulator26 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-10-14 18:30:40 +0200 | <Tri> | geekosaur, I appreciate that... I was thinking the same thing. It just escalated from very quickly. Ski, not that I meant you are bad, it's just I'm not there yet, I really appreciate your help |
| 2025-10-14 18:32:06 +0200 | <ski> | yeah, the CT comments weren't intended as being things you were suggested to understand, but were asides to EvanR |
| 2025-10-14 18:32:08 +0200 | <geekosaur> | that happens in here a lot, and our rep has taken a bit of a hit because of it |
| 2025-10-14 18:32:26 +0200 | <geekosaur> | so yeh, I'm now trying to divert the side chatter |
| 2025-10-14 18:32:47 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 18:33:08 +0200 | <EvanR> | I saw >>> and <> |
| 2025-10-14 18:33:20 +0200 | <EvanR> | I guess Tri was making that up |
| 2025-10-14 18:33:34 +0200 | <Tri> | geekosaur, that's my impression too. I have been here multiple time, and every time, it didn't take more than 3-4 sentences before things took off into some concept way over my head, I just didn't know how to address it properly before |
| 2025-10-14 18:33:34 +0200 | <ski> | i always enjoyed the mix of abstract and concrete, theoretical and practical, conversations on this channel |
| 2025-10-14 18:34:01 +0200 | <geekosaur> | iyeh, but they confuse the hell out of beginners |
| 2025-10-14 18:34:01 +0200 | <ski> | (and i've seen many other people expressing similar things, over the years) |
| 2025-10-14 18:34:03 +0200 | <Tri> | EvanR, yes EvanR, I use >>> just as a placeholder for some operation that can string these functions together |
| 2025-10-14 18:34:12 +0200 | <EvanR> | :t (>>>) |
| 2025-10-14 18:34:13 +0200 | <lambdabot> | forall k (cat :: k -> k -> *) (a :: k) (b :: k) (c :: k). Category cat => cat a b -> cat b c -> cat a c |
| 2025-10-14 18:34:16 +0200 | Zemy | (~Zemy@syn-067-078-059-246.biz.spectrum.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-10-14 18:34:21 +0200 | Zemy_ | (~Zemy@2600:100c:b0a0:3fd9:5cfe:ffff:fe64:fccc) |
| 2025-10-14 18:34:25 +0200 | <EvanR> | you accidentally went categorical! |
| 2025-10-14 18:34:31 +0200 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-54-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 18:34:40 +0200 | <Tri> | I was trying to ask if there was any such function that can string many Override -> Override -> Bool together to return a final Bool |
| 2025-10-14 18:34:41 +0200 | <EvanR> | it does infact string functions together |
| 2025-10-14 18:34:45 +0200 | <ski> | it's definitely one of the reasons that made me stick around, when i started chatting here, some twentyfour years ago |
| 2025-10-14 18:34:51 +0200 | Zemy | (~Zemy@syn-067-078-059-246.biz.spectrum.com) |
| 2025-10-14 18:36:06 +0200 | <EvanR> | an advanced degree is not required to learn haskell it's just a side effect |
| 2025-10-14 18:36:07 +0200 | <Tri> | EvanR, I knew (>>>) was the opposite of function composition (.), coming from F# that's the way I'm comfortable with. It just I used (>>>) in that context to represent the thing i was asking :) |
| 2025-10-14 18:36:26 +0200 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-54-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2025-10-14 18:37:22 +0200 | <ski> | Tri : it's fine to ask people to address the practical or concrete concernss you have, or to ask about particular parts you're wondering about. and addressing questions of people looking for help takes precedence over other chatter |
| 2025-10-14 18:38:16 +0200 | <Tri> | thank you ski |
| 2025-10-14 18:38:27 +0200 | <geekosaur> | yeh, I didn't start to learn any of the stuff they've been talking about until I came here shortly after starting to learn Haskell |
| 2025-10-14 18:38:33 +0200 | Zemy_ | (~Zemy@2600:100c:b0a0:3fd9:5cfe:ffff:fe64:fccc) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 18:38:38 +0200 | Core7083 | (~Zemy@2600:100c:b0a0:3fd9:b093:6aff:fe5f:f77f) |
| 2025-10-14 18:38:50 +0200 | <ski> | you could define `(f &&&& g) x y = f x y && g x y', i guess, and then use `groupBy (isIssuerOverlapping &&&& isAssetOverlapping &&&& isConditionOverlapping &&&& isDateRangeOverlapping &&&& isTargetColumnOverlapping)' |
| 2025-10-14 18:39:00 +0200 | <EvanR> | chaining A -> A -> Bool functions to get an A -> A -> Bool, it requires answering what to do with all the Bools along the way |
| 2025-10-14 18:39:11 +0200 | <ski> | indeed |
| 2025-10-14 18:39:17 +0200 | <EvanR> | in this case anding them all I guess |
| 2025-10-14 18:39:59 +0200 | <ski> | the two obvious choices are `&&' and `||'. you can do the former, with `All' and the latter with `Any', if you use `<>'. but inserting the `All's and `Any's turn out to be annoying .. |
| 2025-10-14 18:40:43 +0200 | <Tri> | yes EvanR, in other words, short circuting to False, if there is a False. That resembles how bind works. I believe people have suggested to use <> and list comprehension, but I didn't have the mental capacity to read them yet, I'm working my day job at the moment |
| 2025-10-14 18:40:59 +0200 | <EvanR> | I'm not sure that monads are appropriate for this |
| 2025-10-14 18:41:00 +0200 | Zemy | (~Zemy@syn-067-078-059-246.biz.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-10-14 18:41:13 +0200 | <EvanR> | short circuiting to False if there is a False is what `and' does |
| 2025-10-14 18:41:23 +0200 | <EvanR> | i.e. folding Bools using && |