| 2024-11-20 00:03:12 +0100 | <geekosaur> | I still don't know how you think that would work |
| 2024-11-20 00:03:17 +0100 | <geekosaur> | think about it |
| 2024-11-20 00:04:52 +0100 | <geekosaur> | "Magic" would be quite literal |
| 2024-11-20 00:05:43 +0100 | <Leary> | I mean, GHC could just do the inlining for you. Not like it doesn't already do plenty of that. |
| 2024-11-20 00:07:24 +0100 | <hellwolf> | the fact is it worked. I take that as a magic. |
| 2024-11-20 00:07:33 +0100 | <hellwolf> | *works |
| 2024-11-20 00:17:30 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah |
| 2024-11-20 00:21:51 +0100 | <hellwolf> | I also defined I8,I16..I256, U8,U16...U256, all without TH. I can now replace that with the magic too. Can you actually do such a splice in the module export list too? I guess that's where the magic is limited? |
| 2024-11-20 00:22:22 +0100 | <hellwolf> | module XYZ ( ... U8, U16, ... U256,...) |
| 2024-11-20 00:28:20 +0100 | <geekosaur> | things defined via TH can be exported, yes |
| 2024-11-20 00:29:52 +0100 | Smiles | (uid551636@id-551636.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2024-11-20 00:32:18 +0100 | <hellwolf> | right. I am more curious about if one can go one step of further of not to write this manually |
| 2024-11-20 00:32:18 +0100 | <hellwolf> | -- *** Assorted INTx Types |
| 2024-11-20 00:32:18 +0100 | <hellwolf> | , U8,U16,U24,U32,U40,U48,U56,U64 |
| 2024-11-20 00:32:18 +0100 | <hellwolf> | ... and so on, in the module export list |
| 2024-11-20 00:32:18 +0100 | <hellwolf> | ... but I am quite content already comparing to where I was few hours ago about this part of the code. |
| 2024-11-20 00:33:00 +0100 | <geekosaur> | I don't think you can, no; it'd be kinda the extreme case of the staging restriction |
| 2024-11-20 00:33:00 +0100 | remexre | (~remexre@user/remexre) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 00:34:14 +0100 | Eoco | (~ian@128.101.131.218) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 00:34:39 +0100 | sawilagar | (~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 00:35:35 +0100 | remexre | (~remexre@user/remexre) remexre |
| 2024-11-20 00:36:01 +0100 | Eoco | (~ian@128.101.131.218) Eoco |
| 2024-11-20 00:36:06 +0100 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty |
| 2024-11-20 00:40:42 +0100 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod |
| 2024-11-20 00:41:02 +0100 | mange | (~user@user/mange) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-11-20 00:42:18 +0100 | notzmv | (~umar@user/notzmv) notzmv |
| 2024-11-20 01:01:33 +0100 | mange | (~user@user/mange) mange |
| 2024-11-20 01:04:09 +0100 | Axman6 | (~Axman6@user/axman6) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 01:06:59 +0100 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo |
| 2024-11-20 01:08:25 +0100 | Everything | (~Everythin@46-133-188-81.mobile.vf-ua.net) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2024-11-20 01:08:45 +0100 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f33ad61be24cfbe8605.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 01:10:49 +0100 | misterfish | (~misterfis@84.53.85.146) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 01:19:50 +0100 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 01:20:38 +0100 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life |
| 2024-11-20 01:33:03 +0100 | sprotte24 | (~sprotte24@p200300d16f3e1d0004a3986a39ff8486.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-11-20 01:36:25 +0100 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: JuanDaugherty) |
| 2024-11-20 01:37:48 +0100 | Axman6 | (~Axman6@user/axman6) Axman6 |
| 2024-11-20 01:40:16 +0100 | son0p | (~ff@2800:e2:f80:ee7::4) son0p |
| 2024-11-20 01:40:16 +0100 | troojg | (~troojg@user/troojg) troojg |
| 2024-11-20 01:43:41 +0100 | <hellwolf> | forM [ (s, n) | s <- [True, False], n <- [1..32] ] $ \(s, n) -> do |
| 2024-11-20 01:43:41 +0100 | <hellwolf> | name <- TH.newName ((if s then "I" else "U") ++ show (n * 8)) |
| 2024-11-20 01:43:41 +0100 | <hellwolf> | TH.tySynD name [] ((TH.conT ''INTx) |
| 2024-11-20 01:43:41 +0100 | <hellwolf> | `TH.appT` (TH.promotedT (if s then 'True else 'False)) |
| 2024-11-20 01:43:41 +0100 | <hellwolf> | `TH.appT` (TH.litT (TH.numTyLit n))) |
| 2024-11-20 01:43:44 +0100 | <hellwolf> | This is amazing |
| 2024-11-20 01:43:54 +0100 | <hellwolf> | Thanks for teaching me this today. |
| 2024-11-20 01:45:14 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
| 2024-11-20 01:53:30 +0100 | hsw_ | (~hsw@2001-b030-2303-0104-0172-0025-0012-0132.hinet-ip6.hinet.net) hsw |
| 2024-11-20 01:53:52 +0100 | hsw | (~hsw@2001-b030-2303-0104-0172-0025-0012-0132.hinet-ip6.hinet.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-11-20 01:58:00 +0100 | <Axman6> | if s then 'True else 'False made me sad but then realised it's not id |
| 2024-11-20 01:58:44 +0100 | <Axman6> | hellwolf: why limit it to multiples of 8? We use a lot of 18 bit ints at work =) |
| 2024-11-20 01:59:25 +0100 | <geekosaur> | pdp7? 😛 |
| 2024-11-20 01:59:41 +0100 | <Axman6> | FPGAs |
| 2024-11-20 01:59:57 +0100 | <geekosaur> | …everything old is new again |
| 2024-11-20 02:00:06 +0100 | <Axman6> | the DSPs we have do 18x25 bit multiplications (IIRC) |
| 2024-11-20 02:02:17 +0100 | <Axman6> | hellwolf: you might also want to look at how Clash does numbers |
| 2024-11-20 02:03:29 +0100 | <hellwolf> | Yea, I wonder if there is better way of doing that 'True 'False thing :) I guess the domain I am dealing with spared me with non octal trite... |
| 2024-11-20 02:03:44 +0100 | <hellwolf> | Axman6: yes I should checkout clash, heard a lot about it... |
| 2024-11-20 02:05:07 +0100 | <Axman6> | I love it, I wish we'd use it at work, VHDL is such a horrific language |
| 2024-11-20 02:16:44 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 02:17:48 +0100 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty |
| 2024-11-20 02:23:50 +0100 | housemate | (~housemate@2a04:9dc0:0:162::5d91:d7ed) (Quit: Nothing to see here. I wasn't there.) |
| 2024-11-20 02:30:36 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-11-20 02:31:21 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2024-11-20 02:39:04 +0100 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2024-11-20 02:42:03 +0100 | Alleria_ | (~Alleria@user/alleria) Alleria |
| 2024-11-20 02:44:09 +0100 | Alleria | (~Alleria@user/alleria) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 02:55:12 +0100 | hsw_ | (~hsw@2001-b030-2303-0104-0172-0025-0012-0132.hinet-ip6.hinet.net) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2024-11-20 02:55:24 +0100 | hsw | (~hsw@2001-b030-2303-0104-0172-0025-0012-0132.hinet-ip6.hinet.net) hsw |
| 2024-11-20 02:59:18 +0100 | Alleria | (~Alleria@user/alleria) Alleria |
| 2024-11-20 03:03:04 +0100 | Alleria_ | (~Alleria@user/alleria) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 03:08:59 +0100 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-11-20 03:09:12 +0100 | Alleria | (~Alleria@user/alleria) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 03:13:18 +0100 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) gehmehgeh |
| 2024-11-20 03:17:12 +0100 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: JuanDaugherty) |
| 2024-11-20 03:23:22 +0100 | Alleria | (~Alleria@user/alleria) Alleria |
| 2024-11-20 03:30:18 +0100 | troojg | (~troojg@user/troojg) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 03:35:29 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 03:36:41 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
| 2024-11-20 04:02:05 +0100 | <Axman6> | any python devs know of a python equivalent to insertWith max k v dict? |
| 2024-11-20 04:13:59 +0100 | <edwardk> | hellwolf: re the export list, you can of course skip using an explicit export list. the least amount of code is no code at all there. |
| 2024-11-20 04:14:00 +0100 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 2024-11-20 04:23:16 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal |
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| 2024-11-20 04:41:57 +0100 | rekahsoft | (~rekahsoft@bras-base-orllon1103w-grc-06-76-69-85-220.dsl.bell.ca) rekahsoft |
| 2024-11-20 04:43:47 +0100 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!) |
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| 2024-11-20 04:48:30 +0100 | Alleria | (~Alleria@user/alleria) Alleria |
| 2024-11-20 04:59:58 +0100 | Me-me | (~me-me@user/me-me) (Quit: Disconnecting on purpose.) |
| 2024-11-20 05:00:58 +0100 | Me-me | (~me-me@kc.randomserver.name) |
| 2024-11-20 05:26:27 +0100 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) bitdex |
| 2024-11-20 05:28:04 +0100 | rekahsoft | (~rekahsoft@bras-base-orllon1103w-grc-06-76-69-85-220.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 06:08:39 +0100 | sand-witch_ | (~m-mzmz6l@vmi833741.contaboserver.net) |
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| 2024-11-20 06:13:32 +0100 | sand-witch_ | sand-witch |
| 2024-11-20 06:17:25 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
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| 2024-11-20 06:21:07 +0100 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) ChaiTRex |
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| 2024-11-20 06:57:50 +0100 | tt12310978324354 | (~tt1231@syn-075-185-104-199.res.spectrum.com) tt1231 |
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| 2024-11-20 06:59:14 +0100 | tt12310978324354 | tt1231097832435 |
| 2024-11-20 07:01:33 +0100 | anpad | (~pandeyan@user/anpad) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2024-11-20 07:02:17 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) fijxu |
| 2024-11-20 07:04:36 +0100 | alphazone | (~alphazone@2.219.56.221) |
| 2024-11-20 07:11:06 +0100 | ft | (~ft@p4fc2a26f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 07:12:48 +0100 | ft | (~ft@p508dbc6e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) ft |
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| 2024-11-20 07:16:37 +0100 | anpad | (~pandeyan@user/anpad) anpad |
| 2024-11-20 07:19:36 +0100 | notzmv | (~umar@user/notzmv) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-11-20 07:25:33 +0100 | mange | (~user@user/mange) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-11-20 07:26:05 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) fijxu |
| 2024-11-20 07:30:03 +0100 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-11-20 07:33:31 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
| 2024-11-20 07:36:15 +0100 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) |
| 2024-11-20 07:39:49 +0100 | alphazone | (~alphazone@2.219.56.221) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 07:40:25 +0100 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@178.115.41.15.wireless.dyn.drei.com) ubert |
| 2024-11-20 07:55:00 +0100 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f43cc25887be993a47b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk |
| 2024-11-20 08:04:59 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 08:15:27 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) fijxu |
| 2024-11-20 08:16:01 +0100 | zlqrvx | (~zlqrvx@user/zlqrvx) (Quit: %quit%) |
| 2024-11-20 08:16:46 +0100 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937 |
| 2024-11-20 08:17:21 +0100 | zlqrvx | (~zlqrvx@user/zlqrvx) zlqrvx |
| 2024-11-20 08:29:09 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 08:32:15 +0100 | <dminuoso> | bwe: The description is true, but not really relevant today. Mostly just a fun remark about history. |
| 2024-11-20 08:33:28 +0100 | Square2 | (~Square4@user/square) Square |
| 2024-11-20 08:36:40 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) fijxu |
| 2024-11-20 08:40:34 +0100 | caconym | (~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye) |
| 2024-11-20 08:45:17 +0100 | sawilagar | (~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) sawilagar |
| 2024-11-20 08:46:29 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 08:57:43 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2024-11-20 08:58:11 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) fijxu |
| 2024-11-20 09:00:56 +0100 | olivial | (~benjaminl@user/benjaminl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-11-20 09:01:12 +0100 | olivial | (~benjaminl@user/benjaminl) benjaminl |
| 2024-11-20 09:01:36 +0100 | GdeVolpiano | (~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) (Quit: WeeChat 4.4.2) |
| 2024-11-20 09:04:24 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 09:07:18 +0100 | Perseverance | (~Persevera@2.219.56.221) |
| 2024-11-20 09:08:11 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> edwardk: yes, that's true. |
| 2024-11-20 09:08:11 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | ... long message truncated: https://kf8nh.com/_heisenbridge/media/kf8nh.com/lsAZXCpcYCpLcHAgzwCoIQAw/t5OqeCcG3NM (3 lines) |
| 2024-11-20 09:10:18 +0100 | misterfish | (~misterfis@84.53.85.146) misterfish |
| 2024-11-20 09:14:56 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> Also, if I take that thing in a separate module of its own, then I can be more comfortable letting module export list to be inexplicit. |
| 2024-11-20 09:14:58 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | But now I am just splitting hairs. |
| 2024-11-20 09:18:23 +0100 | xdej | (~xdej@quatramaran.salle-s.org) |
| 2024-11-20 09:18:28 +0100 | GdeVolpiano | (~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) GdeVolpiano |
| 2024-11-20 09:19:21 +0100 | Perseverance | (~Persevera@2.219.56.221) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 09:21:52 +0100 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) lortabac |
| 2024-11-20 09:28:40 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 09:31:40 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) fijxu |
| 2024-11-20 09:36:37 +0100 | Perseverance | (~Persevera@2.219.56.221) |
| 2024-11-20 09:38:33 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-11-20 09:38:45 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-132-236.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2024-11-20 09:39:06 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-132-236.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-11-20 09:39:22 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2024-11-20 09:40:20 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 09:49:56 +0100 | stiell_ | (~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 09:50:16 +0100 | stiell_ | (~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) stiell |
| 2024-11-20 09:50:48 +0100 | GdeVolpiano | (~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) (Quit: WeeChat 4.4.2) |
| 2024-11-20 09:51:26 +0100 | GdeVolpiano | (~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) GdeVolpiano |
| 2024-11-20 09:53:20 +0100 | ft | (~ft@p508dbc6e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2024-11-20 09:57:28 +0100 | <bwe> | dminuoso: then, what's the essence of it that's relevant today? |
| 2024-11-20 09:57:37 +0100 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod |
| 2024-11-20 09:58:17 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2024-11-20 09:58:44 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) fijxu |
| 2024-11-20 10:03:35 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-11-20 10:03:48 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2024-11-20 10:06:21 +0100 | evocatus | (~evocatus@2a02:a210:20c2:d600:1496:234e:dc9f:5868) evocatus |
| 2024-11-20 10:08:11 +0100 | Smiles | (uid551636@id-551636.lymington.irccloud.com) Smiles |
| 2024-11-20 10:10:02 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 10:10:39 +0100 | evocatus | (~evocatus@2a02:a210:20c2:d600:1496:234e:dc9f:5868) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 10:16:38 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2024-11-20 10:17:18 +0100 | CrunchyFlakes | (~CrunchyFl@ip1f13e94e.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2024-11-20 10:24:49 +0100 | Guest68 | (~Guest68@2405:201:12:391a:c627:4da6:1387:26ef) |
| 2024-11-20 10:25:15 +0100 | <Guest68> | @free showList :: (a -> String) -> [a] -> String |
| 2024-11-20 10:25:15 +0100 | <lambdabot> | showList . (.) f = (.) (showList f) . $map |
| 2024-11-20 10:27:12 +0100 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) (Quit: WeeChat 4.4.2) |
| 2024-11-20 10:27:23 +0100 | <Guest68> | @free showList :: [a] -> String |
| 2024-11-20 10:27:23 +0100 | <lambdabot> | showList = showList . $map f |
| 2024-11-20 10:30:02 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) fijxu |
| 2024-11-20 10:36:12 +0100 | <Guest68> | @free evaluate :: Expr a -> a |
| 2024-11-20 10:36:12 +0100 | <lambdabot> | f . evaluate = evaluate . $map_Expr f |
| 2024-11-20 10:37:04 +0100 | <[exa]> | Guest68: you may also do `/query lambdabot` and ask in private |
| 2024-11-20 10:37:21 +0100 | <Guest68> | Oh, thank you. I'll try that. |
| 2024-11-20 10:38:27 +0100 | <[exa]> | like, not a big issue, just that the attempts here get auto-streamed to at least 500 people :D |
| 2024-11-20 10:40:55 +0100 | <kaol> | History question: Was there a time when Arrow just assumed arr used (->) instead of being a type class taking a Category? |
| 2024-11-20 10:41:52 +0100 | <ncf> | what, like arr :: (b -> c) -> b -> c ? |
| 2024-11-20 10:42:05 +0100 | <ncf> | there aren't many of those... |
| 2024-11-20 10:43:31 +0100 | jespada | (~jespada@cpc121308-nmal25-2-0-cust15.19-2.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) |
| 2024-11-20 10:46:06 +0100 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) toonn |
| 2024-11-20 10:46:07 +0100 | <kaol> | It could be that it's just that I had been introduced to arrows with a simple "arr is like lifting a function to it" and I didn't get the bigger picture then. |
| 2024-11-20 10:48:59 +0100 | jespada | (~jespada@cpc121308-nmal25-2-0-cust15.19-2.cable.virginm.net) jespada |
| 2024-11-20 10:50:00 +0100 | tzh | (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2024-11-20 10:52:09 +0100 | mari-estel | (~mari-este@user/mari-estel) mari-estel |
| 2024-11-20 10:54:11 +0100 | chexum | (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-11-20 10:54:11 +0100 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-11-20 10:54:12 +0100 | stiell_ | (~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-11-20 10:54:28 +0100 | chexum | (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) chexum |
| 2024-11-20 10:54:34 +0100 | stiell_ | (~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) stiell |
| 2024-11-20 10:54:41 +0100 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) ChaiTRex |
| 2024-11-20 10:57:18 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2024-11-20 10:59:10 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 11:03:30 +0100 | mari-estel | (~mari-este@user/mari-estel) (Quit: shitty teams) |
| 2024-11-20 11:05:48 +0100 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) chele |
| 2024-11-20 11:07:32 +0100 | aforemny | (~aforemny@i59F4C7F0.versanet.de) aforemny |
| 2024-11-20 11:09:42 +0100 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) ash3en |
| 2024-11-20 11:12:09 +0100 | lxsameer | (~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) lxsameer |
| 2024-11-20 11:14:18 +0100 | aforemny | (~aforemny@i59F4C7F0.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 11:14:21 +0100 | aforemny_ | (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cf0:9800:3be1:8adc:eacb:81a7) aforemny |
| 2024-11-20 11:14:30 +0100 | Guest68 | (~Guest68@2405:201:12:391a:c627:4da6:1387:26ef) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2024-11-20 11:15:06 +0100 | <jackdk> | ISTR old versions of GHC shipping class Arrow without a superclass |
| 2024-11-20 11:16:23 +0100 | <int-e> | ISTR old versions of GHC not shipping Arrow at all |
| 2024-11-20 11:24:03 +0100 | mari-estel | (~mari-este@user/mari-estel) mari-estel |
| 2024-11-20 11:24:45 +0100 | drdo | (~drdo@bl9-110-63.dsl.telepac.pt) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 11:29:58 +0100 | <jackdk> | You're probably thinking of even older versions |
| 2024-11-20 11:32:10 +0100 | <kaol> | The first drafts of Haskell didn't have monads. |
| 2024-11-20 11:35:48 +0100 | Guest25 | (~Guest25@87-94-152-62.rev.dnainternet.fi) |
| 2024-11-20 11:36:34 +0100 | Buliarous | (~gypsydang@46.232.210.139) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 2024-11-20 11:49:52 +0100 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) siracusa |
| 2024-11-20 11:50:03 +0100 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f43cc25887be993a47b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 11:50:48 +0100 | lortabac | (~lortabac@37.171.105.2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-11-20 11:53:10 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) fijxu |
| 2024-11-20 11:54:30 +0100 | drdo | (~drdo@bl9-110-63.dsl.telepac.pt) drdo |
| 2024-11-20 12:00:51 +0100 | Guest68 | (~Guest68@2405:201:12:391a:c627:4da6:1387:26ef) |
| 2024-11-20 12:01:54 +0100 | Guest68 | (~Guest68@2405:201:12:391a:c627:4da6:1387:26ef) (Client Quit) |
| 2024-11-20 12:03:43 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 12:06:32 +0100 | hsw | (~hsw@2001-b030-2303-0104-0172-0025-0012-0132.hinet-ip6.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-11-20 12:06:40 +0100 | hsw | (~hsw@2001-b030-2303-0104-0172-0025-0012-0132.hinet-ip6.hinet.net) hsw |
| 2024-11-20 12:07:35 +0100 | Guest25 | (~Guest25@87-94-152-62.rev.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 12:07:57 +0100 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f43cc25887be993a47b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk |
| 2024-11-20 12:08:40 +0100 | mari97681 | (~mari-este@user/mari-estel) mari-estel |
| 2024-11-20 12:10:22 +0100 | mari-estel | (~mari-este@user/mari-estel) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-11-20 12:11:18 +0100 | mari-estel | (~mari-este@user/mari-estel) mari-estel |
| 2024-11-20 12:13:47 +0100 | mari97681 | (~mari-este@user/mari-estel) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 12:19:37 +0100 | zlqrvx | (~zlqrvx@user/zlqrvx) (Quit: %quit%) |
| 2024-11-20 12:20:53 +0100 | zlqrvx | (~zlqrvx@user/zlqrvx) zlqrvx |
| 2024-11-20 12:21:00 +0100 | <probie> | kaol: Drafts? Monads are completely absent from 1.2. It's not until 1.3 they turn up |
| 2024-11-20 12:30:07 +0100 | <kaol> | I was thinking in terms of anything before Haskell 98 being drafts. True, that's going a bit fast and loose. |
| 2024-11-20 12:33:30 +0100 | zlqrvx | (~zlqrvx@user/zlqrvx) (Quit: %quit%) |
| 2024-11-20 12:33:57 +0100 | zlqrvx | (~zlqrvx@user/zlqrvx) zlqrvx |
| 2024-11-20 12:45:01 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) fijxu |
| 2024-11-20 12:48:58 +0100 | <dminuoso> | bwe: Humor has never become irrelevant. :-) |
| 2024-11-20 12:50:30 +0100 | <dminuoso> | kaol: Given that most haskellers are writing in non-standardized Haskell these days, it's all back to draft then. |
| 2024-11-20 12:50:33 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 12:50:41 +0100 | <dminuoso> | A new Haskell standard is probably not coming. |
| 2024-11-20 12:51:03 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Haskell2020 never succeeded. |
| 2024-11-20 12:51:54 +0100 | jinsun | (~jinsun@user/jinsun) jinsun |
| 2024-11-20 12:52:42 +0100 | alp_ | (~alp@2001:861:8ca0:4940:483b:a21e:7fb4:76cd) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-11-20 12:52:59 +0100 | alp_ | (~alp@2001:861:8ca0:4940:97d6:816b:8add:3996) |
| 2024-11-20 12:53:04 +0100 | <mari-estel> | the age of standards is over. Now it is either: survive with your implementation or get a big company push their opinionated framework |
| 2024-11-20 12:55:46 +0100 | <bwe> | dminuoso: so which way other than searching through github repos are we left with to learn and find the approaches to adopt for yourself? |
| 2024-11-20 12:56:17 +0100 | <mari-estel> | let trained machines tell you how it is right |
| 2024-11-20 13:05:14 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-11-20 13:06:09 +0100 | ethantwardy | (user@user/ethantwardy) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
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| 2024-11-20 13:27:00 +0100 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) lortabac |
| 2024-11-20 13:32:00 +0100 | SlackCoder | (~SlackCode@64-94-63-8.ip.weststar.net.ky) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2024-11-20 13:37:40 +0100 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f43cc25887be993a47b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 13:37:53 +0100 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f43b9a67790c51d38b0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk |
| 2024-11-20 13:40:27 +0100 | ljdarj1 | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2024-11-20 13:41:17 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) fijxu |
| 2024-11-20 13:43:10 +0100 | alp_ | (~alp@2001:861:8ca0:4940:f821:65d4:a88b:180b) |
| 2024-11-20 13:44:25 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 13:44:26 +0100 | ljdarj1 | ljdarj |
| 2024-11-20 13:44:30 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 13:45:39 +0100 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) ash3en |
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| 2024-11-20 13:53:41 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 13:57:22 +0100 | lxsameer | (~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 13:57:38 +0100 | TheCoffeMaker | (~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-11-20 14:00:06 +0100 | TheCoffeMaker | (~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) TheCoffeMaker |
| 2024-11-20 14:01:01 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2024-11-20 14:02:53 +0100 | Digitteknohippie | (~user@user/digit) Digit |
| 2024-11-20 14:03:01 +0100 | Digit | (~user@user/digit) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 14:10:35 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2024-11-20 14:14:31 +0100 | <bwe> | dminuoso: hm, constraint depends on dual which is now deprecated and there is a break using current GHC 9.10.1. |
| 2024-11-20 14:15:28 +0100 | <bwe> | dminuoso: wait. It's weird. Why is GHC telling me that while hackage doesn't list dual as dependency? |
| 2024-11-20 14:16:01 +0100 | <bwe> | ah, it's constraintS not constraint. |
| 2024-11-20 14:27:22 +0100 | alp_ | (~alp@2001:861:8ca0:4940:f821:65d4:a88b:180b) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-11-20 14:27:39 +0100 | alp_ | (~alp@2001:861:8ca0:4940:b086:6e29:f872:e211) |
| 2024-11-20 14:28:42 +0100 | SlackCoder | (~SlackCode@64-94-63-8.ip.weststar.net.ky) SlackCoder |
| 2024-11-20 14:29:21 +0100 | mari-estel | (~mari-este@user/mari-estel) mari-estel |
| 2024-11-20 14:29:34 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
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| 2024-11-20 14:36:45 +0100 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "") |
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| 2024-11-20 14:43:07 +0100 | kuribas | (~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) kuribas |
| 2024-11-20 14:43:22 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-003-034-243.176.3.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2024-11-20 14:44:34 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-003-034-243.176.3.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-11-20 14:44:51 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2024-11-20 14:47:34 +0100 | Fijxu | (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) fijxu |
| 2024-11-20 14:54:56 +0100 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@178.115.41.15.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 14:55:12 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 14:55:33 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2024-11-20 14:56:32 +0100 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) user363627 |
| 2024-11-20 14:58:03 +0100 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@178.115.41.15.wireless.dyn.drei.com) ubert |
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| 2024-11-20 15:05:04 +0100 | Guest96 | (~Guest96@2402:3a80:9e:5890:e83f:36b9:abb4:3cb8) |
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| 2024-11-20 15:07:39 +0100 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) (Quit: WeeChat 4.4.2) |
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| 2024-11-20 15:18:27 +0100 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a05:5800:211:4200:ca4b:d6ff:fec1:99da) CiaoSen |
| 2024-11-20 15:36:17 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 15:38:16 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
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| 2024-11-20 15:41:27 +0100 | ljdarj1 | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
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| 2024-11-20 15:44:02 +0100 | ljdarj1 | ljdarj |
| 2024-11-20 15:44:17 +0100 | divya | (~user@139.5.11.231) divya |
| 2024-11-20 15:49:50 +0100 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) ash3en |
| 2024-11-20 15:51:35 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 15:51:47 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2024-11-20 15:55:26 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-11-20 15:56:17 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2024-11-20 15:57:37 +0100 | alp_ | (~alp@2001:861:8ca0:4940:53c2:f590:3f4e:6591) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 16:01:44 +0100 | Digitteknohippie | (~user@user/digit) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 16:11:35 +0100 | Digit | (~user@user/digit) Digit |
| 2024-11-20 16:12:44 +0100 | SlackCoder | (~SlackCode@64-94-63-8.ip.weststar.net.ky) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2024-11-20 16:26:13 +0100 | mari-estel | (~mari-este@user/mari-estel) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 16:34:22 +0100 | lortabac | (~lortabac@37.166.62.73) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 16:36:47 +0100 | mari-estel | (~mari-este@user/mari-estel) mari-estel |
| 2024-11-20 16:37:37 +0100 | <bwe> | dminuoso: How close am I to the solution? https://paste.tomsmeding.com/kSbnWM3t |
| 2024-11-20 16:39:47 +0100 | Angelz | (Angelz@2605:6400:30:fc15:9bd1:2217:41cd:bb15) (Changing host) |
| 2024-11-20 16:39:47 +0100 | Angelz | (Angelz@user/angelz) angelz |
| 2024-11-20 16:40:20 +0100 | <dminuoso> | bwe: A bit far away. With constraints, instead of carrying a proxy around, you'd pass just a Dict around. |
| 2024-11-20 16:40:34 +0100 | <dminuoso> | (I mean you could conceive situations where you might want both, too) |
| 2024-11-20 16:48:14 +0100 | <bwe> | dminuoso: ok, so Dict replaces in my case simply Proxy. So, therefore also in the instances: https://play-haskell.tomsmeding.com/saved/zCSNq6hE |
| 2024-11-20 16:48:47 +0100 | <dminuoso> | bwe: This looks still wrong, |
| 2024-11-20 16:49:43 +0100 | <dminuoso> | withDict :: HasDict c e => e -> (c => r) -> r |
| 2024-11-20 16:50:14 +0100 | <dminuoso> | So the idea is to use it like this: `withDict e (fromHTML html)` |
| 2024-11-20 16:50:38 +0100 | <dminuoso> | fromHTML then does not take any Dict argument. |
| 2024-11-20 16:50:44 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Imagine this: |
| 2024-11-20 16:51:07 +0100 | <dminuoso> | :t fmap (+ (1 :: Int)) |
| 2024-11-20 16:51:07 +0100 | <lambdabot> | Functor f => f Int -> f Int |
| 2024-11-20 16:51:13 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Note that this function takes a constraint. |
| 2024-11-20 16:51:30 +0100 | <bwe> | (c => r) |
| 2024-11-20 16:51:52 +0100 | <dminuoso> | bwe: If you squint a bit, => is really not too different from -> |
| 2024-11-20 16:52:22 +0100 | <dminuoso> | We can pretend the constraint to be a kind of argument that needs to be provided. |
| 2024-11-20 16:52:34 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Except that GHC just automgically fills this, normally. |
| 2024-11-20 16:52:56 +0100 | <dminuoso> | `constraints` gives you a way to reify a dictionary, pass it around, and then discharge a constraint with it. |
| 2024-11-20 16:53:02 +0100 | <dminuoso> | by "discharge" I mean like function application. |
| 2024-11-20 16:53:20 +0100 | <dminuoso> | take something that wants a dictionary, and stuff the dictionary in to satisfy everything. |
| 2024-11-20 16:53:51 +0100 | SlackCoder | (~SlackCode@208.26.70.132) SlackCoder |
| 2024-11-20 16:54:04 +0100 | <bwe> | so, where do I stuff the dictionary? line 24 `fromDBEntry :: Dict (IntoGeneral a)` is that fine so far? |
| 2024-11-20 16:54:50 +0100 | <dminuoso> | % class Foo where f :: Int |
| 2024-11-20 16:54:50 +0100 | <yahb2> | <no output> |
| 2024-11-20 16:54:53 +0100 | <dminuoso> | % :t f |
| 2024-11-20 16:54:53 +0100 | <yahb2> | f :: Foo => Int |
| 2024-11-20 16:55:02 +0100 | <dminuoso> | bwe: See this? |
| 2024-11-20 16:55:17 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Or maybe this: |
| 2024-11-20 16:55:27 +0100 | <dminuoso> | % class Foo a where f :: Int |
| 2024-11-20 16:55:27 +0100 | <yahb2> | <interactive>:77:19: error: [GHC-39999] ; • Could not deduce ‘Foo a0’ ; from the context: Foo a ; bound by the type signature for: ; f :: forall {k} (a :: k). F... |
| 2024-11-20 16:55:30 +0100 | <dminuoso> | % class Bar a where f :: Int |
| 2024-11-20 16:55:30 +0100 | <yahb2> | <interactive>:79:19: error: [GHC-39999] ; • Could not deduce ‘Bar a0’ ; from the context: Bar a ; bound by the type signature for: ; f :: forall {k} (a :: k). B... |
| 2024-11-20 16:56:58 +0100 | <bwe> | so the type instance does carry its class with it |
| 2024-11-20 16:57:23 +0100 | <bwe> | so I actually put `Foo => Int` into `(c => r)` |
| 2024-11-20 16:57:26 +0100 | <dminuoso> | % :set -XAllowAmbiguousTypes |
| 2024-11-20 16:57:27 +0100 | <yahb2> | <no output> |
| 2024-11-20 16:57:28 +0100 | <dminuoso> | % class Bar a where f :: Int |
| 2024-11-20 16:57:28 +0100 | <yahb2> | <no output> |
| 2024-11-20 16:57:30 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Here we go. |
| 2024-11-20 16:57:33 +0100 | <dminuoso> | :t f |
| 2024-11-20 16:57:34 +0100 | <lambdabot> | FromExpr a => a |
| 2024-11-20 16:57:42 +0100 | <dminuoso> | % :t f |
| 2024-11-20 16:57:42 +0100 | <yahb2> | f :: forall {k} (a :: k). Bar a => Int |
| 2024-11-20 16:57:54 +0100 | <dminuoso> | bwe: Right. |
| 2024-11-20 16:58:06 +0100 | <dminuoso> | bwe: Or in this case `Bar a => Int` |
| 2024-11-20 16:58:20 +0100 | <bwe> | withDict :: e -> (Bar a => Int) -> Int |
| 2024-11-20 16:58:31 +0100 | <dminuoso> | bwe: You can then use DataKinds to promote SiteVariant too, that way you dont need separate `SiteA` and `SiteB` types. |
| 2024-11-20 16:58:32 +0100 | <bwe> | so what's `e` then? |
| 2024-11-20 16:59:12 +0100 | <bwe> | dminuoso: first I want to grasp `withDict` :) |
| 2024-11-20 16:59:13 +0100 | <dminuoso> | bwe: Lets pretend withDict :: Dict c -> (c => r) -> r |
| 2024-11-20 16:59:18 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Which is the simpler form. |
| 2024-11-20 16:59:33 +0100 | <dminuoso> | (And in fact there exists an instance that allows you to use it as such) |
| 2024-11-20 17:00:11 +0100 | <dminuoso> | "Assuming we have a reified dictionary for constraint c, and some r that needs a dictionary c, this discharges the `c =>` constraint and gives you the r back. |
| 2024-11-20 17:00:12 +0100 | <bwe> | withDict :: Dict (Bar a) -> (Bar a => Int) -> Int |
| 2024-11-20 17:00:24 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Yup, thats it. |
| 2024-11-20 17:01:10 +0100 | <bwe> | now it clicks. Dict __(Bar a) -> (__Bar a__ => Int) -> Int |
| 2024-11-20 17:01:11 +0100 | <dminuoso> | bwe: Under the hood `C =>` becomes really just some sort of function argument that takes a some actual dictionary. |
| 2024-11-20 17:01:36 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Except all that dictionary passing happens just invisibly and automatically under the hood. |
| 2024-11-20 17:01:44 +0100 | <dminuoso> | With `constraints` you make it explicit and controllable |
| 2024-11-20 17:01:45 +0100 | <bwe> | Whatever Dict carries, withDict discharges from the second argument |
| 2024-11-20 17:01:56 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Exactly. Its really just like function application |
| 2024-11-20 17:01:59 +0100 | <dminuoso> | :t ($) |
| 2024-11-20 17:02:00 +0100 | <lambdabot> | (a -> b) -> a -> b |
| 2024-11-20 17:02:05 +0100 | <dminuoso> | :t flip ($) |
| 2024-11-20 17:02:06 +0100 | <lambdabot> | a -> (a -> c) -> c |
| 2024-11-20 17:02:09 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Its pretty much the same thing. :) |
| 2024-11-20 17:02:24 +0100 | <bwe> | so how to apply this now… |
| 2024-11-20 17:03:15 +0100 | <dminuoso> | bwe: So first, get rid of SiteA and SiteB datatypes. |
| 2024-11-20 17:03:33 +0100 | <dminuoso> | bwe: Then flip on DataKinds, this way you suddenly get these magic types `A` and `B` |
| 2024-11-20 17:03:41 +0100 | <dminuoso> | % :set -XDataKinds |
| 2024-11-20 17:03:41 +0100 | <yahb2> | <no output> |
| 2024-11-20 17:03:52 +0100 | <dminuoso> | % data SiteVariant = SiteA | SiteB |
| 2024-11-20 17:03:52 +0100 | <yahb2> | <no output> |
| 2024-11-20 17:03:56 +0100 | <dminuoso> | % :k SiteA |
| 2024-11-20 17:03:56 +0100 | <yahb2> | SiteA :: SiteVariant |
| 2024-11-20 17:05:15 +0100 | <bwe> | https://play-haskell.tomsmeding.com/saved/M98rHWtW |
| 2024-11-20 17:05:37 +0100 | <bwe> | is DataKinds just using the type as a type and not to carry its value? |
| 2024-11-20 17:05:38 +0100 | alp_ | (~alp@2001:861:8ca0:4940:fc9d:90cc:a5de:4f14) |
| 2024-11-20 17:06:29 +0100 | <dminuoso> | bwe: DataKind promotes `SiteVariant` into a Kind, and conjures types `SiteA :: SiteVariant` and `SiteB :: SiteVariant` |
| 2024-11-20 17:07:55 +0100 | <bwe> | (while `SiteA` and `SiteB` continue to exist on the data level, too) |
| 2024-11-20 17:07:59 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Right. |
| 2024-11-20 17:08:19 +0100 | <bwe> | ay, what's next? |
| 2024-11-20 17:08:38 +0100 | <dminuoso> | So Im thinking maybe a HasDict instance. |
| 2024-11-20 17:08:58 +0100 | <dminuoso> | This is all getting really strange, at the end. |
| 2024-11-20 17:09:15 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Ultimately all you need is just `fromHTML :: SiteVariant -> ByteString -> General` of couerse. |
| 2024-11-20 17:09:56 +0100 | <bwe> | but this will be no more instance but normal function, right? |
| 2024-11-20 17:09:59 +0100 | <Square2> | I might get into the situation of making my department of 50 (12 devs) adapt Haskell. It's a bit scary tbh. How to onboard people who mostly programmed java past 15 years. |
| 2024-11-20 17:10:07 +0100 | <dminuoso> | bwe: Right. |
| 2024-11-20 17:10:50 +0100 | Alleria | (~Alleria@user/alleria) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) |
| 2024-11-20 17:10:57 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Square2: Having onboarded a bunch of people onto Haskell, Id say it depends very much on the company culture and the people. |
| 2024-11-20 17:11:35 +0100 | <dminuoso> | bwe: I think we just ended up on a fun journey about constraints due to an XY problem. ;) |
| 2024-11-20 17:11:38 +0100 | <Square2> | dminuoso, Yeah, I feel it could be a uphill battle. Some are probably not up to it. |
| 2024-11-20 17:11:43 +0100 | <bwe> | dminuoso: so we drop withDict or not? |
| 2024-11-20 17:11:46 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Square2: Are they motivated to learn Haskell? |
| 2024-11-20 17:11:54 +0100 | <dminuoso> | bwe: Hey, we're just exploring for fun, right? |
| 2024-11-20 17:12:13 +0100 | <dminuoso> | You decide. :-) |
| 2024-11-20 17:12:15 +0100 | <bwe> | dminuoso: I am just before that fun bit :). |
| 2024-11-20 17:12:39 +0100 | <Square2> | dminuoso, Probably not. But most of them will just use it to write simple functions. All IO will remain in Java. |
| 2024-11-20 17:13:12 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Square2: If they are hardcore Java developers, not motivated to learn Haskell... Im not sure this is going to end well. |
| 2024-11-20 17:14:19 +0100 | <Square2> | dminuoso, I mean, they can probably see the motivation of using it. We're in a "there is no other way" situation. |
| 2024-11-20 17:14:36 +0100 | <dminuoso> | You can only lead a horse to the water. |
| 2024-11-20 17:14:43 +0100 | <bwe> | dminuoso: can we go back to complete the withDict first? I pretty much appreciate that DataKinds, though, later. |
| 2024-11-20 17:14:57 +0100 | <dminuoso> | With Haskell, there is a large portion about unlearning mindsets and learning new techniques, almost starting from scratch. |
| 2024-11-20 17:15:05 +0100 | <dminuoso> | bwe: Lets keep the DataKinds, though. |
| 2024-11-20 17:15:31 +0100 | <bwe> | dminuoso: here's the latest version: https://play-haskell.tomsmeding.com/saved/9jXIcvKT |
| 2024-11-20 17:16:16 +0100 | <bwe> | dminuoso: oh, I see, there's not too much difference in concepts with or without DataKinds |
| 2024-11-20 17:16:18 +0100 | <dminuoso> | bwe: So the idea is that with HasDict you can provide evidence for another constraint. |
| 2024-11-20 17:16:31 +0100 | <dminuoso> | bwe: Say you can attach evidence onto a SiteVariant for your HasGeneral constraint. |
| 2024-11-20 17:16:43 +0100 | <dminuoso> | bwe: Right, DataKinds just cleans it up. |
| 2024-11-20 17:16:53 +0100 | <dminuoso> | So you dont have both A and SiteA flying around. |
| 2024-11-20 17:17:15 +0100 | <bwe> | (I was scared for it to complicate things further.) |
| 2024-11-20 17:18:13 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Well, we're of course overcomplicating all of this. I did not know this was an XY problem yesterday. ;-) |
| 2024-11-20 17:18:29 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Might as well go all-in! |
| 2024-11-20 17:18:31 +0100 | <bwe> | Yeah, I had that gut feeling already. |
| 2024-11-20 17:18:42 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 17:19:23 +0100 | <dminuoso> | bwe: So if you bring your HasGeneral typeclass back, make instances for `HasGeneral SiteA` and `HasGeneral SiteB` |
| 2024-11-20 17:19:30 +0100 | <Square2> | dminuoso, Yes, I've been there. But, yeah. To begin with, they'll only need to grasp basic functor/monad constructs. I feel it should be doable for people who got MSc's in comp science. |
| 2024-11-20 17:19:46 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Square2: My best advice, avoid the words `functor` and `monad`. |
| 2024-11-20 17:19:53 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Avoid the constructs entirely. |
| 2024-11-20 17:20:23 +0100 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@178.115.41.15.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-11-20 17:20:31 +0100 | <Square2> | Not sure I can, but yeah I see your point. |
| 2024-11-20 17:20:37 +0100 | <mari-estel> | huh come on, functors are not that scary |
| 2024-11-20 17:20:42 +0100 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@178.115.41.15.wireless.dyn.drei.com) ubert |
| 2024-11-20 17:22:44 +0100 | <bwe> | dminuoso: https://play-haskell.tomsmeding.com/saved/Yl8rZptl |
| 2024-11-20 17:25:52 +0100 | <bwe> | dminuoso: `Dict (IntoGeneral a)` in the function head of `fromDBEntry` remains, because that is the dict for `withDict dict`? |
| 2024-11-20 17:26:47 +0100 | <bwe> | dminuoso: Do I have to define HasDict instances now? |
| 2024-11-20 17:28:02 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-11-20 17:29:44 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2024-11-20 17:30:33 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2024-11-20 17:31:26 +0100 | <bwe> | I don't, because `withDict :: Dict c -> (c => r) -> r` is possible and `Dict (IntoGeneral a)` comes into play here… |
| 2024-11-20 17:32:44 +0100 | <bwe> | `withDict :: Dict (IntoGeneral a) -> (IntoGeneral a => SiteVariant) -> SiteVariant` |
| 2024-11-20 17:35:10 +0100 | <bwe> | dminuoso: still here? https://play-haskell.tomsmeding.com/saved/6PnEpvyR |
| 2024-11-20 17:38:28 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 17:41:17 +0100 | img | (~img@user/img) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2024-11-20 17:42:41 +0100 | img | (~img@user/img) img |
| 2024-11-20 17:45:45 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2024-11-20 17:49:20 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-11-20 17:50:25 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-004-009-213.176.4.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2024-11-20 17:52:51 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 17:58:35 +0100 | caconym | (~caconym@user/caconym) caconym |
| 2024-11-20 17:59:01 +0100 | SlackCoder | (~SlackCode@208.26.70.132) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-11-20 18:07:09 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-004-009-213.176.4.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-11-20 18:08:01 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2024-11-20 18:09:59 +0100 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-11-20 18:14:27 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2024-11-20 18:26:29 +0100 | son0p | (~ff@2800:e6:4001:6cc3:2748:5c2a:65d9:57ac) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 18:28:07 +0100 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Tuplanolla |
| 2024-11-20 18:30:41 +0100 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) (Quit: ash3en) |
| 2024-11-20 18:31:09 +0100 | forell | (~forell@user/forell) forell |
| 2024-11-20 18:31:31 +0100 | ljdarj1 | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2024-11-20 18:33:43 +0100 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f43b9a67790c51d38b0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 18:35:23 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 18:35:23 +0100 | ljdarj1 | ljdarj |
| 2024-11-20 18:38:54 +0100 | chexum_ | (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) chexum |
| 2024-11-20 18:39:51 +0100 | _xor | (~xor@ip-66-42-132-175.dynamic.fuse.net) (Quit: brb/bbiab) |
| 2024-11-20 18:40:44 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | bwe: https://play-haskell.tomsmeding.com/saved/jPsc7ZTz ? |
| 2024-11-20 18:41:17 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | though `fromHTML (Proxy @SiteA) html` also works, why was the withDict there? |
| 2024-11-20 18:42:18 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 18:42:35 +0100 | kuribas | (~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 18:42:56 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2024-11-20 18:43:06 +0100 | chexum | (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 18:43:58 +0100 | briandaed | (~root@user/briandaed) briandaed |
| 2024-11-20 18:48:51 +0100 | _xor | (~xor@ip-66-42-132-175.dynamic.fuse.net) _xor |
| 2024-11-20 18:50:19 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
| 2024-11-20 18:53:51 +0100 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f43690414510db8e884.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk |
| 2024-11-20 18:55:48 +0100 | ft | (~ft@p508dbc6e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) ft |
| 2024-11-20 18:56:01 +0100 | Everything | (~Everythin@94.153.8.251) Everything |
| 2024-11-20 18:56:32 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 18:56:58 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2024-11-20 18:57:20 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 18:59:18 +0100 | lxsameer | (~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) lxsameer |
| 2024-11-20 19:02:41 +0100 | <bwe> | tomsmeding: yep, that's what I was after. thanks for the solution. |
| 2024-11-20 19:04:13 +0100 | <bwe> | tomsmeding: https://play-haskell.tomsmeding.com/saved/1d6dIp1u <- actually, if fromHTML generates `SiteVariant` inbetween on the way to produce `General`, I'd like `fromHTML` to return that, too, for debugging purposes. |
| 2024-11-20 19:05:12 +0100 | <bwe> | tomsmeding: withDict because not using DataKinds |
| 2024-11-20 19:05:23 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 19:05:49 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | bwe: what do you mean with "because not using DataKinds"? |
| 2024-11-20 19:06:03 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-001-003-233.176.1.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2024-11-20 19:06:06 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | bwe: the moment you write `IntoGeneral SiteA` you're using DataKinds |
| 2024-11-20 19:06:26 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | that SiteA there is in the position where a type is expected, but it's a data constructor; DataKinds lifts it to a type |
| 2024-11-20 19:07:02 +0100 | <bwe> | tomsmeding: yup, but I've started out using withDict before dminuoso proposed to switch to DataKinds |
| 2024-11-20 19:07:06 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | a type that has no values (because it's not a type of kind Type), hence you can't ask for a value of it in the type of fromHTML |
| 2024-11-20 19:07:32 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | I see, I haven't followed the discussion, just saw your last post :) |
| 2024-11-20 19:07:48 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-001-003-233.176.1.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-11-20 19:08:02 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | bwe: that 'a' return value from fromHTML is suspect |
| 2024-11-20 19:08:03 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2024-11-20 19:08:09 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | how are you going to create a SiteA? |
| 2024-11-20 19:08:19 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | a _value of type SiteA_, to be precise? |
| 2024-11-20 19:08:33 +0100 | <bwe> | so, I had three initiations recently: Proxy, Constraints / withDict and DataKinds |
| 2024-11-20 19:09:22 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | ah with your latest paste, GHC complains as I expect |
| 2024-11-20 19:09:31 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | SiteA is not a type of kind Type |
| 2024-11-20 19:09:57 +0100 | <bwe> | tomsmeding: https://play-haskell.tomsmeding.com/saved/dfb9mlT9 |
| 2024-11-20 19:10:10 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | how are you going to write initSiteA? |
| 2024-11-20 19:10:14 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | that function has no definition |
| 2024-11-20 19:10:28 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | it is _impossible_ to write an initSiteA that is not undefined |
| 2024-11-20 19:10:57 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | if you want to return the _constructor_ SiteA instead, it should be initSiteA :: SiteVariant |
| 2024-11-20 19:11:35 +0100 | <bwe> | tomsmeding: You got me :). |
| 2024-11-20 19:11:43 +0100 | <bwe> | https://play-haskell.tomsmeding.com/saved/hi8Hh5MO |
| 2024-11-20 19:11:57 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | still an 'a' left in the return type of fromHTML |
| 2024-11-20 19:12:15 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | this doesn't typecheck |
| 2024-11-20 19:12:16 +0100 | <bwe> | so that will be then SiteVariant |
| 2024-11-20 19:12:33 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | (if you're posting playground snippets, you can check them with a click on a button -- do so ;) ) |
| 2024-11-20 19:12:45 +0100 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) ash3en |
| 2024-11-20 19:13:54 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | bwe: are you perhaps confused because you actually intended to write `data SiteVariant = SiteA SiteA | SiteB SiteB`? |
| 2024-11-20 19:13:59 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | where SiteA and SiteB are actual data types with fields |
| 2024-11-20 19:15:44 +0100 | tzh | (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) tzh |
| 2024-11-20 19:16:02 +0100 | <bwe> | so reversing DataKinds for a moment: https://play-haskell.tomsmeding.com/saved/eaWYsjTO |
| 2024-11-20 19:16:57 +0100 | <bwe> | (it's not compiling, ofc) |
| 2024-11-20 19:18:20 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | bwe: this is getting closer, but something else is still off: in fromDBEntry, you're deciding which variant to return based on siteVariant from the DBEntry, but the _type_ you hvae to return, 'a', is from that Dict (IntoGeneral a) argument |
| 2024-11-20 19:18:49 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | so this ain't going to work: _you_ want to choose, based on a value inside the DBEntry, what 'a' is, but the type signature of fromDBEntry allows the caller of fromDBEntry to choose 'a' |
| 2024-11-20 19:19:01 +0100 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) Unicorn_Princess |
| 2024-11-20 19:19:17 +0100 | <bwe> | https://play-haskell.tomsmeding.com/saved/TXQ84gHu |
| 2024-11-20 19:19:29 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | same problem |
| 2024-11-20 19:19:34 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | the caller is allowed to choose a1 |
| 2024-11-20 19:19:54 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | you could give Variant and DBEntry a type argument indicating what the variant is for (SiteA or SiteB) |
| 2024-11-20 19:20:09 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | then the return type of fromDBEntry is linked to the _value_ inside the DBEntry |
| 2024-11-20 19:20:39 +0100 | <bwe> | that would be type level programming, correct? |
| 2024-11-20 19:20:52 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | no |
| 2024-11-20 19:21:04 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | well, not really |
| 2024-11-20 19:21:16 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | what is the X problem here (as in X-Y problem) :p |
| 2024-11-20 19:21:23 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | where does DBEntry come from? |
| 2024-11-20 19:21:29 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | what is the context? |
| 2024-11-20 19:22:03 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | there are various ways something _like_ this can typecheck, but they all result in different designs of the program |
| 2024-11-20 19:22:09 +0100 | <bwe> | oh, storing multiple pages of different websites to a DB, differentiated by Variant |
| 2024-11-20 19:22:31 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | right, so you're getting untyped data from the database, and you want to "create" more typing info? |
| 2024-11-20 19:22:50 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 19:23:25 +0100 | <bwe> | then loading that from DB, channelling it into different parsing machinery depending on `Variant`, which eventually culminates into `General` which is abstract, again |
| 2024-11-20 19:23:44 +0100 | <bwe> | are we getting closer to X of XY :) ? |
| 2024-11-20 19:25:32 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | bwe: what about a low-tech option? https://play-haskell.tomsmeding.com/saved/au6S9SPc |
| 2024-11-20 19:26:10 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | just make a new sum type with the possible pages inside |
| 2024-11-20 19:26:13 +0100 | ljdarj1 | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2024-11-20 19:28:05 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
| 2024-11-20 19:29:33 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | if you want to invent type information that did not exist beforehand, you'll need an existential wrapper around the result to allow the function to choose the type, not the caller |
| 2024-11-20 19:29:33 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2024-11-20 19:29:33 +0100 | ljdarj1 | ljdarj |
| 2024-11-20 19:29:43 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | but I suspect this is good enough for you |