2024/11/15

2024-11-15 00:03:51 +0100 <jackdk> carbolymer: I don't understand your suggestion. The typeclass I want to type-family-ify exists and I cannot change it (concrete example: `GHC.Records.HasField`), but I want a type family that can select the field type. This example fails with "The RHS of an associated type declaration mentions out-of-scope variable ‘z’ All such variables must be bound on the LHS" https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/4aygJmq9/MakeATypeFamily.hs
2024-11-15 00:06:26 +0100rvalue-(~rvalue@user/rvalue) rvalue
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2024-11-15 00:19:05 +0100 <carbolymer> jackdk: ah, you can't modify the original class - that' s though
2024-11-15 00:20:06 +0100 <carbolymer> s/though/tough
2024-11-15 00:24:54 +0100nek0(~nek0@user/nek0) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2024-11-15 00:26:44 +0100 <carbolymer> jackdk: maybe something in this direction https://paste.tomsmeding.com/Og2LnIpN ?
2024-11-15 00:29:03 +0100 <jackdk> The problem is I didn't know `a` at the time. (I was trying to write some servant-flavoured stuff, and wanted to provide an analogue to `ToServantApi` that extracted a single field). So I don't actually know the final type (because there are other TFs involved) but I know GHC does
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2024-11-15 00:30:32 +0100 <carbolymer> ah
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2024-11-15 00:48:36 +0100 <sm> @where+ wiwik https://gotchamana.github.io/wiwinwlh What I Wish I Knew When Learning Haskell, Stephen Diehl
2024-11-15 00:48:37 +0100 <lambdabot> Good to know.
2024-11-15 00:48:39 +0100 <sm> found!
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2024-11-15 02:45:04 +0100m5zs7k(aquares@web10.mydevil.net) m5zs7k
2024-11-15 02:47:08 +0100 <zero> funny how haskell classes inherit the same problem as oop inheritence
2024-11-15 02:47:27 +0100 <zero> pun intended i guess
2024-11-15 02:51:19 +0100 <Axman6> Multiple (problem) inheritance
2024-11-15 02:52:48 +0100 <monochrom> What is the problem?
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2024-11-15 03:19:08 +0100 <Axman6> it makes sorting out the will much more difficult
2024-11-15 03:19:27 +0100 <monochrom> haha
2024-11-15 03:25:46 +0100Square(~Square@user/square) Square
2024-11-15 03:29:14 +0100 <EvanR> one problem with oop inheritance, usually, is joe schmoe want's his class to inherit from multiple other classes simultaneously. It's a problem either because you aren't allowed to do it, or because you are allowed to do it (e.g. in python)
2024-11-15 03:29:24 +0100 <EvanR> not sure how that translates to haskell
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2024-11-15 03:36:00 +0100talismanick(~user@2601:644:937c:ed10::ae5) talismanick
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2024-11-15 04:04:11 +0100 <sm> I guess: long chains of dependency make the whole system more brittle ?
2024-11-15 04:05:02 +0100 <sm> I don't know about multiple inheritance either but suspect that's the root problem
2024-11-15 04:07:12 +0100yisef(~yisef@122.10.198.17)
2024-11-15 04:07:15 +0100 <sm> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_inheritance#The_diamond_problem
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2024-11-15 04:18:51 +0100Katarushisu6(~Katarushi@finc-20-b2-v4wan-169598-cust1799.vm7.cable.virginm.net) Katarushisu
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2024-11-15 04:21:07 +0100Katarushisu6Katarushisu
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2024-11-15 04:48:11 +0100 <EvanR> in "type classes vs the world" he shows a slide with a diamond dependency, and basically type classes, nothing bad happens
2024-11-15 04:48:19 +0100 <EvanR> s/basically/because/
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2024-11-15 04:49:14 +0100 <EvanR> because there's only ever zero or one instances for a given type
2024-11-15 04:49:39 +0100 <EvanR> so if you arrive at a dependency along different routes it's the same instance
2024-11-15 04:52:40 +0100ShannonB(~ShannonB@user/ShannonB) ShannonB
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2024-11-15 06:08:38 +0100 <monochrom> Multiple implementation inheritance is the problem (even the OO people already know), but it doesn't translate to Haskell. Multiple interface inheritance is well-known to be just fine.
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2024-11-15 06:09:36 +0100 <monochrom> OTOH category theory offers a safe kind of diamond inheritance. It's called push out.
2024-11-15 06:09:59 +0100 <monochrom> Just that you can't do push outs in C++, that's all. :)
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2024-11-15 06:13:36 +0100 <EvanR> pushout = multiple inheritance. Got it. And jquery is a monad!
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2024-11-15 06:39:29 +0100 <monochrom> haha
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2024-11-15 08:27:25 +0100Axma62480(~Axman6@user/axman6) Axman6
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2024-11-15 08:48:13 +0100guy(~guy@188.210.213.53)
2024-11-15 08:48:21 +0100 <guy> HELP HELP iv been up all night and have discovered a UFO!
2024-11-15 08:48:27 +0100 <guy> its unidentified!
2024-11-15 08:48:33 +0100 <guy> its not even a monad!
2024-11-15 08:48:37 +0100 <guy> a net is this
2024-11-15 08:49:19 +0100 <guy> (m (m a),m a) <-> (m (m a),m a)
2024-11-15 08:49:28 +0100 <guy> its like half a monad or something?
2024-11-15 08:49:59 +0100 <guy> instead of being contained inside itself (nets as neurons), it can have this extended as itself (this becomes layers)
2024-11-15 08:50:16 +0100 <guy> instead of going deep at the contents, you put them in layers and its not a recursion
2024-11-15 08:50:46 +0100 <guy> if i had it kind of deep at the neurons anyway, i could always just not do that and add extra layers
2024-11-15 08:51:04 +0100 <guy> but i can kind of make a tradeoff and have both worlds, leading to the type above
2024-11-15 08:51:43 +0100 <guy> like, not all of the inner (m a) in m (m a) extend the ,m a) its paried with
2024-11-15 08:52:01 +0100 <guy> i can like, half do the monad collapse thing
2024-11-15 08:52:03 +0100 <guy> !!!
2024-11-15 08:52:05 +0100 <guy> night x
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2024-11-15 13:43:39 +0100housemate(~housemate@146.70.66.228) (Quit: "I saw it in a tiktok video and thought that it was the most smartest answer ever." ~ AnonOps Radio [some time some place] | I AM THE DERIVATIVE I AM GOING TANGENT TO THE CURVE!)
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2024-11-15 14:30:06 +0100mange(~user@user/mange) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-11-15 14:31:45 +0100 <Rembane> I've been searching Google, Hoogle and asked various dubious AIs and I can't find the answer to the question: Is there a lens version of mapMaybe? If so, what's the name of it?
2024-11-15 14:33:29 +0100 <probie> :t mapMaybe
2024-11-15 14:33:30 +0100 <lambdabot> (a -> Maybe b) -> [a] -> [b]
2024-11-15 14:36:19 +0100 <probie> So you're looking for something like `(some constraints here) => (a -> f (Maybe b)) -> t a -> f (t b)`?
2024-11-15 14:38:07 +0100pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-11-15 14:39:44 +0100 <Rembane> Yeah, that looks reasonable
2024-11-15 14:40:53 +0100pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) siracusa
2024-11-15 14:40:54 +0100 <Leary> Rembane: `wither`?
2024-11-15 14:41:40 +0100 <Rembane> Leary: Fancy! Thank you!
2024-11-15 14:42:06 +0100ethantwardy(user@user/ethantwardy) (Quit: WeeChat 4.3.2)
2024-11-15 14:43:28 +0100ethantwardy(user@user/ethantwardy) ethantwardy
2024-11-15 14:44:07 +0100 <c_wraith> Rembane: if you specifically are looking for compatibility with lens, I didn't like the way the witherable package does it. Or other ways I've seen suggested to do it. So I made https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lens-witherable
2024-11-15 14:44:39 +0100 <Rembane> c_wraith: Even better. Yes, compatibility is important to me.
2024-11-15 14:47:25 +0100hellwolf(~user@2001:1530:70:545:5239:a298:1329:4b) hellwolf
2024-11-15 14:48:51 +0100 <Hecate> 'sup hellwolf :)
2024-11-15 14:49:46 +0100 <hellwolf> :) GM Hecate. I couldn't configure my rcirc in emacs for reconnecting after computer shutting down...
2024-11-15 14:55:18 +0100pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2024-11-15 14:55:41 +0100 <Hecate> :)
2024-11-15 14:56:17 +0100 <hellwolf> sorry, after computer coming back from sleep. I didn't make sense.
2024-11-15 14:56:46 +0100 <hellwolf> anyways, been a good haskell day?
2024-11-15 14:57:34 +0100 <Hecate> yeah, nothing to complain about on this front
2024-11-15 14:57:51 +0100 <Hecate> I'm thinking of using one of my FreeBSD servers in the near future as a development macine
2024-11-15 14:57:54 +0100 <Hecate> *machine
2024-11-15 14:59:44 +0100 <hellwolf> any particular reason?
2024-11-15 15:00:59 +0100 <Hecate> 64GB of RAM and a powerful CPU
2024-11-15 15:01:09 +0100 <Hecate> also a good thing to use FreeBSD
2024-11-15 15:01:20 +0100 <hellwolf> Oh?
2024-11-15 15:02:10 +0100aforemny(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cc5:1900:266e:896c:b9aa:a2eb) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2024-11-15 15:04:40 +0100 <Hecate> hellwolf: yeah, I'll be able to notice areas where the tools lack support for it
2024-11-15 15:05:05 +0100 <hellwolf> oh, as a means to dogfood it. kudos to that.
2024-11-15 15:05:11 +0100ystael(~ystael@user/ystael) ystael
2024-11-15 15:07:33 +0100 <Hecate> yus
2024-11-15 15:08:04 +0100 <hellwolf> More people should do that. Build and use it youself first.
2024-11-15 15:08:23 +0100 <hellwolf> Dogfooding is a good culture.
2024-11-15 15:09:11 +0100pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) siracusa
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2024-11-15 15:13:07 +0100weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
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2024-11-15 15:50:08 +0100JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty
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2024-11-15 17:35:14 +0100Digitteknohippie(~user@user/digit) Digit
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2024-11-15 18:09:35 +0100gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh) gehmehgeh
2024-11-15 18:10:06 +0100alexherbo2(~alexherbo@103.148.22.93.rev.sfr.net) alexherbo2
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2024-11-15 18:15:50 +0100 <lxsameer> have you tried the streamly library? if yes, how was your experience in general?
2024-11-15 18:23:15 +0100yaroot(~yaroot@2400:4052:ac0:d901:1cf4:2aff:fe51:c04c) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-11-15 18:23:19 +0100tomku(~tomku@user/tomku) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-15 18:23:30 +0100yaroot(~yaroot@2400:4052:ac0:d901:1cf4:2aff:fe51:c04c) yaroot
2024-11-15 18:23:32 +0100tomku(~tomku@user/tomku) tomku
2024-11-15 18:28:04 +0100shapr(~user@2601:19c:417e:5434:a5bf:c395:f22f:b8c) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-11-15 18:32:26 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2024-11-15 18:37:05 +0100shapr(~user@2600:4040:5c49:5600:176f:6255:d12:c742) shapr
2024-11-15 18:40:19 +0100econo_(uid147250@id-147250.tinside.irccloud.com)
2024-11-15 18:40:56 +0100 <Rembane> Is it that library that's really cool and very hard to understand?
2024-11-15 18:42:08 +0100 <Rembane> Hm... nope, I was thinking of machines. Is this library you're thinking of lxsameer? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/streamly
2024-11-15 19:00:41 +0100ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2024-11-15 19:03:09 +0100 <EvanR> machines is nearly alien technology
2024-11-15 19:05:57 +0100 <Rembane> Yeah, I think humanity will reach another golden age if we understand that library.
2024-11-15 19:07:27 +0100tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2024-11-15 19:08:59 +0100 <hellwolf> o_o
2024-11-15 19:11:08 +0100 <EvanR> call that egyptologist guy from stargate who could read any alien text
2024-11-15 19:12:10 +0100 <Rembane> Indeed.
2024-11-15 19:13:34 +0100hellwolf(~user@2001:1530:70:545:5239:a298:1329:4b) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2024-11-15 19:21:09 +0100lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-11-15 19:22:36 +0100Square(~Square@user/square) Square
2024-11-15 19:26:21 +0100Square2(~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2024-11-15 19:29:42 +0100 <dolio> What sort of questions about it do you have?
2024-11-15 19:41:34 +0100noctuks(i2MhobYIr5@user/noctux) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2024-11-15 19:55:35 +0100zerozzz
2024-11-15 19:57:28 +0100s4msung(LBlP633nW8@user/s4msung) s4msung
2024-11-15 19:57:28 +0100yushyin(XM7IK4wOXA@mail.karif.server-speed.net) yushyin
2024-11-15 19:57:33 +0100noctuks(HxiKc5AS9I@user/noctux) noctux
2024-11-15 20:00:30 +0100noctuks(HxiKc5AS9I@user/noctux) (Client Quit)
2024-11-15 20:00:30 +0100s4msung(LBlP633nW8@user/s4msung) (Client Quit)
2024-11-15 20:00:30 +0100yushyin(XM7IK4wOXA@mail.karif.server-speed.net) (Client Quit)
2024-11-15 20:02:41 +0100s4msung(YSkIhMhdIR@user/s4msung) s4msung
2024-11-15 20:02:41 +0100yushyin(aC7s4hKZiM@mail.karif.server-speed.net) yushyin
2024-11-15 20:02:42 +0100noctuks(d4toxF5wNA@user/noctux) noctux
2024-11-15 20:04:19 +0100chiselfuse(~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-11-15 20:04:56 +0100chiselfuse(~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse) chiselfuse
2024-11-15 20:11:51 +0100 <EvanR> here's one. Is it at all useful