| 2024-11-15 00:03:51 +0100 | <jackdk> | carbolymer: I don't understand your suggestion. The typeclass I want to type-family-ify exists and I cannot change it (concrete example: `GHC.Records.HasField`), but I want a type family that can select the field type. This example fails with "The RHS of an associated type declaration mentions out-of-scope variable ‘z’ All such variables must be bound on the LHS" https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/4aygJmq9/MakeATypeFamily.hs |
| 2024-11-15 00:06:26 +0100 | rvalue- | (~rvalue@user/rvalue) rvalue |
| 2024-11-15 00:07:19 +0100 | rvalue | (~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-11-15 00:10:34 +0100 | rvalue- | rvalue |
| 2024-11-15 00:19:05 +0100 | <carbolymer> | jackdk: ah, you can't modify the original class - that' s though |
| 2024-11-15 00:20:06 +0100 | <carbolymer> | s/though/tough |
| 2024-11-15 00:24:54 +0100 | nek0 | (~nek0@user/nek0) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 2024-11-15 00:26:44 +0100 | <carbolymer> | jackdk: maybe something in this direction https://paste.tomsmeding.com/Og2LnIpN ? |
| 2024-11-15 00:29:03 +0100 | <jackdk> | The problem is I didn't know `a` at the time. (I was trying to write some servant-flavoured stuff, and wanted to provide an analogue to `ToServantApi` that extracted a single field). So I don't actually know the final type (because there are other TFs involved) but I know GHC does |
| 2024-11-15 00:30:01 +0100 | aljazmc | (~aljazmc@user/aljazmc) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-11-15 00:30:32 +0100 | <carbolymer> | ah |
| 2024-11-15 00:31:05 +0100 | ljdarj1 | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2024-11-15 00:34:10 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2024-11-15 00:34:10 +0100 | ljdarj1 | ljdarj |
| 2024-11-15 00:41:13 +0100 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f73687bc11ede7922f8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2024-11-15 00:45:54 +0100 | jle` | (~jle`@2603:8001:3b02:84d4:71c9:147c:d31f:c8d0) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2024-11-15 00:47:05 +0100 | jle` | (~jle`@2603:8001:3b02:84d4:4ba:cd34:52ca:7a5) jle` |
| 2024-11-15 00:48:36 +0100 | <sm> | @where+ wiwik https://gotchamana.github.io/wiwinwlh What I Wish I Knew When Learning Haskell, Stephen Diehl |
| 2024-11-15 00:48:37 +0100 | <lambdabot> | Good to know. |
| 2024-11-15 00:48:39 +0100 | <sm> | found! |
| 2024-11-15 00:49:10 +0100 | arthurvl | (~arthurvl@77-174-49-144.fixed.kpn.net) earthy |
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| 2024-11-15 02:44:40 +0100 | m5zs7k | (aquares@web10.mydevil.net) (Quit: m5zs7k) |
| 2024-11-15 02:45:04 +0100 | m5zs7k | (aquares@web10.mydevil.net) m5zs7k |
| 2024-11-15 02:47:08 +0100 | <zero> | funny how haskell classes inherit the same problem as oop inheritence |
| 2024-11-15 02:47:27 +0100 | <zero> | pun intended i guess |
| 2024-11-15 02:51:19 +0100 | <Axman6> | Multiple (problem) inheritance |
| 2024-11-15 02:52:48 +0100 | <monochrom> | What is the problem? |
| 2024-11-15 02:59:15 +0100 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2024-11-15 03:06:43 +0100 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-11-15 03:08:22 +0100 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) gehmehgeh |
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| 2024-11-15 03:19:08 +0100 | <Axman6> | it makes sorting out the will much more difficult |
| 2024-11-15 03:19:27 +0100 | <monochrom> | haha |
| 2024-11-15 03:25:46 +0100 | Square | (~Square@user/square) Square |
| 2024-11-15 03:29:14 +0100 | <EvanR> | one problem with oop inheritance, usually, is joe schmoe want's his class to inherit from multiple other classes simultaneously. It's a problem either because you aren't allowed to do it, or because you are allowed to do it (e.g. in python) |
| 2024-11-15 03:29:24 +0100 | <EvanR> | not sure how that translates to haskell |
| 2024-11-15 03:29:37 +0100 | jjhoo | (~jahakala@user/jjhoo) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2024-11-15 03:36:00 +0100 | talismanick | (~user@2601:644:937c:ed10::ae5) talismanick |
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| 2024-11-15 03:41:38 +0100 | jjhoo | (~jahakala@user/jjhoo) jjhoo |
| 2024-11-15 04:03:39 +0100 | shapr | (~user@2601:19c:417e:5434:b5b7:a31:f560:51b7) (Quit: sleep) |
| 2024-11-15 04:04:11 +0100 | <sm> | I guess: long chains of dependency make the whole system more brittle ? |
| 2024-11-15 04:05:02 +0100 | <sm> | I don't know about multiple inheritance either but suspect that's the root problem |
| 2024-11-15 04:07:12 +0100 | yisef | (~yisef@122.10.198.17) |
| 2024-11-15 04:07:15 +0100 | <sm> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_inheritance#The_diamond_problem |
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| 2024-11-15 04:18:51 +0100 | Katarushisu6 | (~Katarushi@finc-20-b2-v4wan-169598-cust1799.vm7.cable.virginm.net) Katarushisu |
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| 2024-11-15 04:21:07 +0100 | Katarushisu6 | Katarushisu |
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| 2024-11-15 04:39:12 +0100 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2024-11-15 04:48:11 +0100 | <EvanR> | in "type classes vs the world" he shows a slide with a diamond dependency, and basically type classes, nothing bad happens |
| 2024-11-15 04:48:19 +0100 | <EvanR> | s/basically/because/ |
| 2024-11-15 04:49:14 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-11-15 04:49:14 +0100 | <EvanR> | because there's only ever zero or one instances for a given type |
| 2024-11-15 04:49:39 +0100 | <EvanR> | so if you arrive at a dependency along different routes it's the same instance |
| 2024-11-15 04:52:40 +0100 | ShannonB | (~ShannonB@user/ShannonB) ShannonB |
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| 2024-11-15 06:08:38 +0100 | <monochrom> | Multiple implementation inheritance is the problem (even the OO people already know), but it doesn't translate to Haskell. Multiple interface inheritance is well-known to be just fine. |
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| 2024-11-15 06:09:36 +0100 | <monochrom> | OTOH category theory offers a safe kind of diamond inheritance. It's called push out. |
| 2024-11-15 06:09:59 +0100 | <monochrom> | Just that you can't do push outs in C++, that's all. :) |
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| 2024-11-15 06:13:36 +0100 | <EvanR> | pushout = multiple inheritance. Got it. And jquery is a monad! |
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| 2024-11-15 06:39:29 +0100 | <monochrom> | haha |
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| 2024-11-15 08:42:09 +0100 | alp | (~alp@2001:861:e3d6:8f80:38f:e7ec:8e95:3cb9) |
| 2024-11-15 08:44:48 +0100 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) |
| 2024-11-15 08:48:13 +0100 | guy | (~guy@188.210.213.53) |
| 2024-11-15 08:48:21 +0100 | <guy> | HELP HELP iv been up all night and have discovered a UFO! |
| 2024-11-15 08:48:27 +0100 | <guy> | its unidentified! |
| 2024-11-15 08:48:33 +0100 | <guy> | its not even a monad! |
| 2024-11-15 08:48:37 +0100 | <guy> | a net is this |
| 2024-11-15 08:49:19 +0100 | <guy> | (m (m a),m a) <-> (m (m a),m a) |
| 2024-11-15 08:49:28 +0100 | <guy> | its like half a monad or something? |
| 2024-11-15 08:49:59 +0100 | <guy> | instead of being contained inside itself (nets as neurons), it can have this extended as itself (this becomes layers) |
| 2024-11-15 08:50:16 +0100 | <guy> | instead of going deep at the contents, you put them in layers and its not a recursion |
| 2024-11-15 08:50:46 +0100 | <guy> | if i had it kind of deep at the neurons anyway, i could always just not do that and add extra layers |
| 2024-11-15 08:51:04 +0100 | <guy> | but i can kind of make a tradeoff and have both worlds, leading to the type above |
| 2024-11-15 08:51:43 +0100 | <guy> | like, not all of the inner (m a) in m (m a) extend the ,m a) its paried with |
| 2024-11-15 08:52:01 +0100 | <guy> | i can like, half do the monad collapse thing |
| 2024-11-15 08:52:03 +0100 | <guy> | !!! |
| 2024-11-15 08:52:05 +0100 | <guy> | night x |
| 2024-11-15 08:52:06 +0100 | guy | (~guy@188.210.213.53) (Client Quit) |
| 2024-11-15 08:53:22 +0100 | ephilalethes | (~noumenon@2001:fb1:48:5708:aa7e:eaff:fede:ff94) noumenon |
| 2024-11-15 09:00:01 +0100 | caconym | (~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye) |
| 2024-11-15 09:00:38 +0100 | caconym | (~caconym@user/caconym) caconym |
| 2024-11-15 09:00:40 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2024-11-15 09:01:16 +0100 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-11-15 09:02:26 +0100 | misterfish | (~misterfis@046044172198.static.ipv4.heldenvannu.net) misterfish |
| 2024-11-15 09:06:06 +0100 | misterfish | (~misterfis@046044172198.static.ipv4.heldenvannu.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-11-15 09:10:18 +0100 | misterfish | (~misterfis@178.229.18.151) misterfish |
| 2024-11-15 09:16:39 +0100 | misterfish | (~misterfis@178.229.18.151) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2024-11-15 09:25:02 +0100 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) ash3en |
| 2024-11-15 09:34:33 +0100 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) toonn |
| 2024-11-15 09:50:00 +0100 | mari-estel | (~mari-este@user/mari-estel) mari-estel |
| 2024-11-15 09:51:24 +0100 | mari-estel | (~mari-este@user/mari-estel) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-11-15 09:51:38 +0100 | mari-estel | (~mari-este@user/mari-estel) mari-estel |
| 2024-11-15 09:57:15 +0100 | mari35246 | (~mari-este@user/mari-estel) mari-estel |
| 2024-11-15 10:00:12 +0100 | mari-estel | (~mari-este@user/mari-estel) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2024-11-15 10:05:24 +0100 | mari35246 | (~mari-este@user/mari-estel) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2024-11-15 10:08:16 +0100 | ash3en1 | (~Thunderbi@146.70.124.222) ash3en |
| 2024-11-15 10:10:12 +0100 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2024-11-15 10:10:13 +0100 | ash3en1 | ash3en |
| 2024-11-15 10:10:33 +0100 | kuribas | (~user@ptr-17d51ep701orqnv6ksc.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) |
| 2024-11-15 10:23:35 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2024-11-15 10:29:43 +0100 | mari-estel | (~mari-este@user/mari-estel) mari-estel |
| 2024-11-15 10:39:44 +0100 | misterfish | (~misterfis@31-161-39-137.biz.kpn.net) misterfish |
| 2024-11-15 10:40:52 +0100 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) chele |
| 2024-11-15 10:44:31 +0100 | hellwolf | (~user@da7f-daa3-a2f4-21df-0f00-4d40-07d0-2001.sta.estpak.ee) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2024-11-15 10:46:56 +0100 | xff0x | (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2024-11-15 10:52:50 +0100 | hiredman | (~hiredman@frontier1.downey.family) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2024-11-15 10:54:35 +0100 | Smiles | (uid551636@id-551636.lymington.irccloud.com) Smiles |
| 2024-11-15 10:58:47 +0100 | ephilalethes | (~noumenon@2001:fb1:48:5708:aa7e:eaff:fede:ff94) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2024-11-15 10:59:57 +0100 | driib318 | (~driib@vmi931078.contaboserver.net) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 2024-11-15 11:00:44 +0100 | driib318 | (~driib@vmi931078.contaboserver.net) driib |
| 2024-11-15 11:01:26 +0100 | lxsameer | (~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) lxsameer |
| 2024-11-15 11:07:43 +0100 | tzh | (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2024-11-15 11:08:03 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2024-11-15 11:10:57 +0100 | rdcdr | (~rdcdr@user/rdcdr) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-15 11:14:19 +0100 | CrunchyFlakes | (~CrunchyFl@ip1f13e94e.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2024-11-15 11:14:44 +0100 | rdcdr | (~rdcdr@user/rdcdr) rdcdr |
| 2024-11-15 11:25:19 +0100 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@146.70.124.222) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-15 11:27:22 +0100 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@178.115.41.15.wireless.dyn.drei.com) ubert |
| 2024-11-15 11:36:35 +0100 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) siracusa |
| 2024-11-15 11:41:12 +0100 | mceresa | (~mceresa@user/mceresa) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-15 11:46:06 +0100 | mceresa | (~mceresa@user/mceresa) mceresa |
| 2024-11-15 11:56:06 +0100 | housemate | (~housemate@146.70.66.228) housemate |
| 2024-11-15 11:58:16 +0100 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) (Quit: WeeChat 4.4.2) |
| 2024-11-15 12:12:59 +0100 | Digit | (~user@user/digit) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-15 12:13:12 +0100 | Digitteknohippie | (~user@user/digit) Digit |