2025/10/27

2025-10-27 00:00:13 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-27 00:05:11 +0100Shark8(~Shark8@c-174-56-102-109.hsd1.nm.comcast.net)
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2025-10-27 00:58:38 +0100jzargo2(~jzargo@user/jzargo) jzargo
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2025-10-27 01:02:03 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-27 01:05:22 +0100CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-10-27 01:07:03 +0100werneta(~werneta@71.83.160.242) werneta
2025-10-27 01:07:17 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-27 01:13:53 +0100 <jackdk> sm: I had to make revisions to 25 `http-conduit` releases because none of them had upper bounds on their `aeson` deps. Snoyman, though stack, definitely preached and practiced "no-upper-bounds". `stack new`still generates templates like `base >= 4.7 && <5`, which admits new `base` releases that are allowed to break backwards-compatibility.
2025-10-27 01:17:17 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> I believe stack never "told its users to make hackage worse for everybody". Blog posts and interpretations at some point in time are a different matter, if you want to cite we could discuss, but it's not that important now is it
2025-10-27 01:17:32 +0100craunts795335385(~craunts@136.158.7.194)
2025-10-27 01:17:48 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> and bravo for revising past releases. (I usually don't go that far back)
2025-10-27 01:17:49 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-27 01:18:02 +0100jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-10-27 01:20:48 +0100 <L29Ah> stack users still upload packages to hackage with synopsis made of "hackage docs suck go to stackage"
2025-10-27 01:22:49 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-27 01:24:05 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> ok what fresh hell is this.. show us please L29Ah :)
2025-10-27 01:26:53 +0100jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-10-27 01:27:29 +0100 <jackdk> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/conduit-1.3.6.1 is one example: "Hackage documentation generation is not reliable. For up to date documentation, please see: http://www.stackage.org/package/conduit". It's not in the templates that `stack new` generates today, AFAICT but it takes time for existing projects to change
2025-10-27 01:28:42 +0100chromoblob(~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-10-27 01:29:21 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> I don't see a problem here, YMMMV
2025-10-27 01:31:26 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-27 01:32:28 +0100 <L29Ah> ok i admit it is probably just a personal gimmick, and i'm just seeing those packages very often // https://hackage.haskell.org/package/http-client
2025-10-27 01:38:02 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2025-10-27 01:47:22 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-10-27 01:49:07 +0100 <geekosaur> people still think cabal is in its v1 days
2025-10-27 01:49:25 +0100 <geekosaur> and hackage did at one point have problems building docs, but that was fixed like a decade ago
2025-10-27 01:49:29 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-10-27 01:54:01 +0100trickard_trickard
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2025-10-27 01:59:38 +0100dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d182:6512:c2f9:c3a:b83d:6490) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in)
2025-10-27 01:59:59 +0100dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d182:6512:c2f9:c3a:b83d:6490) dtman34
2025-10-27 02:00:03 +0100 <c_wraith> hackage still won't build docs if the package depends on a library that isn't (or can't be) installed. But it supports uploading docs for that situation.
2025-10-27 02:02:11 +0100ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2025-10-27 02:04:11 +0100 <geekosaur> right, but there was a time when it was failing for all packages
2025-10-27 02:04:15 +0100 <geekosaur> lasted a couple years
2025-10-27 02:05:17 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-10-27 02:45:10 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah
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2025-10-27 03:19:49 +0100 <jackdk> sm: re: "bravo for revising past releases. (I usually don't go that far back)." The thing is, I *had* to, because the lack of upper bounds on `aeson` meant that `cabal` kept selecting older and older releases in the build plan until I revised them all.
2025-10-27 03:24:15 +0100dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d182:6512:c2f9:c3a:b83d:6490) dtman34
2025-10-27 03:28:20 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-27 03:29:09 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2025-10-27 03:36:47 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> yes, that's the nature of cabal
2025-10-27 03:37:34 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> though usually only some other problem constraint causes it to go so far back
2025-10-27 03:38:02 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> the dynamic solver doesn't think like a human and isn't good at explaining what it's doing
2025-10-27 03:40:07 +0100 <jackdk> Because I am very pro-upper-bounds + relaxation, I consider the real problem to be that 25 releases were left lying around waiting to be broken by a dependency that introduced a breaking change, and that the policy encouraged by the behaviour of the stack binary pushes the cost of reacting to that breaking change onto everyone else except the maintainer.
2025-10-27 03:40:35 +0100 <jackdk> correction, the policy encouraged by *old templates instantiated by* the stack binary
2025-10-27 03:43:53 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-27 03:44:25 +0100werneta(~werneta@71.83.160.242) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2025-10-27 03:47:21 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> if you are still trying to blame (some part of) stack", I won't stop you. I'll also continue to push back when I see advice that misleads new haskellers
2025-10-27 03:49:00 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-27 03:49:44 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> this is engineering, people are operating in many different contexts, there are tradeoffs. I appreciate people exploring different approaches (leading to better understanding and consensus over time)
2025-10-27 03:55:37 +0100lol__jcarpenter2
2025-10-27 03:59:40 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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