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2025-03-19 05:27:24 +0100 <Axman6> Which parsing library would youse use for parsing binary protocols today? I would usually look at attoparsec, but it's definitely more aimed at textual parsing. Binary is possibly ok, but I'm wondering if there's any other options these days
2025-03-19 05:28:17 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-03-19 05:28:35 +0100 <Axman6> (I'm Australian, youse is an important word in our culture)
2025-03-19 05:32:40 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-03-19 05:36:06 +0100kh0d(~kh0d@212.200.247.168) kh0d
2025-03-19 05:39:15 +0100Feuermagier(~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) Feuermagier
2025-03-19 05:40:58 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2025-03-19 05:41:39 +0100kh0d(~kh0d@212.200.247.168) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-03-19 05:43:12 +0100 <jackdk> Axman6: I think youz'll find that it's spelt "yooz"
2025-03-19 05:43:33 +0100 <Axman6> bloody bogans
2025-03-19 05:43:41 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-03-19 05:43:49 +0100Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-03-19 05:44:15 +0100aforemny(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6ce6:a700:9c3f:a849:8d9b:359a) aforemny
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2025-03-19 05:46:56 +0100 <jackdk> I usually consider attoparsec suitable for binary formats. Last time I did binary parsing I used package `binary` over `cereal` but I couldn't tell you why. Maybe the more recent upload date?
2025-03-19 05:47:47 +0100 <Axman6> A big thing that was missing was parsing integers of fixed sizes and endianesses, which I'm sure surprises me every timeI try to use it for binary parsing
2025-03-19 05:48:25 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-03-19 05:49:19 +0100 <jackdk> I wonder if https://hackage.haskell.org/package/attoparsec-binary-0.2 still works? Some very ambitious bounds and a 2012 upload date
2025-03-19 05:51:17 +0100alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee
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2025-03-19 05:52:27 +0100michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.193)
2025-03-19 05:52:34 +0100hattckory(~hattckory@184.146.98.182) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-03-19 05:53:57 +0100 <jackdk> Huh, I found a 3.5yo PR of mine against cereal still open, perhaps that's why I switched to `binary`.
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2025-03-19 06:49:34 +0100 <haskellbridge> <Bowuigi> IIRC flatparse can work with binary stuff, but not sure how good it is at that
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2025-03-19 08:14:16 +0100 <dminuoso> Axman6: I would use flatparse without hesitation.
2025-03-19 08:14:19 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-03-19 08:14:54 +0100 <dminuoso> It's has ultra high performance, has simple and yet powerful error/backtracking powers, and can be interleaved with IO easily.
2025-03-19 08:15:07 +0100 <dminuoso> And none of the typeclass nonsense.
2025-03-19 08:15:10 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-03-19 08:15:34 +0100ash3en(~Thunderbi@149.222.149.43) ash3en
2025-03-19 08:16:27 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life
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2025-03-19 08:17:58 +0100CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen
2025-03-19 08:18:27 +0100 <dminuoso> (Or you can even run it over ST if you want)
2025-03-19 08:19:02 +0100 <dminuoso> s/would use/do use/
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2025-03-19 08:43:25 +0100 <Axman6> Hmm, that looks good, and I think I looked into it, though it doesn't appear to support incremental parsing right? I'm not sure if I need that, but it would be nice
2025-03-19 08:43:37 +0100 <Axman6> I think there's a 70% chance I will need that actually
2025-03-19 08:47:31 +0100cyphase(~cyphase@user/cyphase) cyphase
2025-03-19 08:49:21 +0100 <Axman6> But it might also be possible to just repeatedly run a parser
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2025-03-19 10:01:57 +0100dhil(~dhil@2a0c:b381:52e:3600:e6af:ac8c:7aa:72f4) dhil
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2025-03-19 10:11:25 +0100Digitteknohippie(~user@user/digit) Digit
2025-03-19 10:12:09 +0100 <dminuoso> Axman6: Can you refine a bit your idea of incremental parsing?
2025-03-19 10:12:26 +0100Digit(~user@user/digit) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-03-19 10:12:56 +0100 <Axman6> being able to indicate that the parser has consumed the input its been given and then continue by feeding in more chunks
2025-03-19 10:13:39 +0100 <jackdk> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/attoparsec-0.14.4/docs/Data-Attoparsec-ByteString.html#t:IResult Like the `Partial` constructor in attoparsec's result type
2025-03-19 10:14:05 +0100 <dminuoso> Ah okay, flatparse has no builtin support for streaming currently.
2025-03-19 10:15:09 +0100 <dminuoso> It can deal with unconsumed input, so you have some options to resume parsing with that.
2025-03-19 10:15:24 +0100 <dminuoso> But it cannot deal with missing input
2025-03-19 10:15:54 +0100synchromesh(~john@116.251.144.215) (Quit: WeeChat 4.1.1)
2025-03-19 10:16:07 +0100 <dminuoso> Which could still be fine, if you're fine with retrying every time you have a new chunk until you can do partial parses
2025-03-19 10:19:22 +0100hattckory(~hattckory@bras-base-toroon4524w-grc-47-184-146-98-182.dsl.bell.ca)
2025-03-19 10:19:26 +0100 <dminuoso> It's an interesting thought, I think we could easily build this into flatparse from a technical perspective
2025-03-19 10:19:56 +0100 <dminuoso> Retaining compatibility with existing code that builds manual parsers should be doable with pattern synonyms
2025-03-19 10:20:52 +0100 <dminuoso> But it does mean tragging an continuation through all the parsers. So I guess the main concern would be whether that would degrade performance
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2025-03-19 11:18:06 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) ()
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2025-03-19 11:59:20 +0100j1n37-(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
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2025-03-19 12:04:33 +0100LainExperiments(~LainExper@user/LainExperiments) LainExperiments
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2025-03-19 12:09:13 +0100tromp(~textual@2a02:a210:cba:8500:f085:be23:3f4e:4a7a)
2025-03-19 12:09:59 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2025-03-19 12:19:11 +0100 <[exa]> morning all! is there some canonical good way to make argmax-style functions in repa? (e.g., given a matrix, which column index has the maximum in each row?) I thought this would be pretty obvious from documentation but I'm struggling to find anything relatable.
2025-03-19 12:19:41 +0100 <[exa]> (except for implementing this very manually with Repa.transpose, but that doesn't seem to nest quite right)
2025-03-19 12:19:46 +0100hattckory(~hattckory@bras-base-toroon4524w-grc-47-184-146-98-182.dsl.bell.ca)
2025-03-19 12:20:00 +0100 <[exa]> s/transpose/traverse/ oops
2025-03-19 12:21:16 +0100 <[exa]> I thought about 1] use traverse to add indices and 2] use fold to find the maxima 3] then strip indices again, but would love to have this somewhat confirmed as a way to go
2025-03-19 12:23:21 +0100bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) bitdex
2025-03-19 12:23:34 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2025-03-19 12:24:31 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-131-187.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-03-19 12:24:49 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@ip5f5ad695.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2025-03-19 12:26:28 +0100alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee
2025-03-19 12:29:23 +0100 <tomsmeding> [exa]: zipping with fromFunction to add indices is probably faster than traverse
2025-03-19 12:30:15 +0100 <tomsmeding> oh I misread 'traverse', perhaps it's roughly the same thing in the end
2025-03-19 12:30:24 +0100hattckory(~hattckory@bras-base-toroon4524w-grc-47-184-146-98-182.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-03-19 12:31:24 +0100alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-03-19 12:31:54 +0100lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) lxsameer
2025-03-19 12:32:06 +0100 <tomsmeding> [exa]: but yes from looking at the docs I wouldn't be surprised if that's the way to go
2025-03-19 12:34:47 +0100 <tomsmeding> pity that repa doesn't seem to have a commutative fold primitive
2025-03-19 12:35:40 +0100 <tomsmeding> (fold with a commutative (and cheap, vectorisable) operator can be multiple times as fast as a fold with a merely associative operator)
2025-03-19 12:35:43 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-03-19 12:36:40 +0100 <tomsmeding> but perhaps in this case because it's a normal haskell function, things aren't vectorised anyway, so it doesn't matter much
2025-03-19 12:41:49 +0100 <tomsmeding> [exa]: for curiosity, why repa and not massiv? (I have used neither, but I was under the impression that massiv was more recent)
2025-03-19 12:44:48 +0100Otong(~Otong@user/Otong) Otong
2025-03-19 12:45:19 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
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2025-03-19 12:50:02 +0100ash3en(~Thunderbi@149.222.149.43) (Quit: ash3en)
2025-03-19 12:51:41 +0100p3n(~p3n@217.198.124.246) (Quit: ZNC 1.9.1 - https://znc.in)
2025-03-19 12:52:51 +0100p3n(~p3n@2a00:19a0:3:7c:0:d9c6:7cf6:1) p3n
2025-03-19 12:52:58 +0100 <lxsameer> hey folks, have you ever used brick with images?
2025-03-19 12:55:35 +0100CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-03-19 13:02:23 +0100kuribas(~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) kuribas
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2025-03-19 13:31:48 +0100dibblego(~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego) dibblego
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2025-03-19 13:39:08 +0100 <__monty__> Fair warning, image support is very terminal emulator dependent.
2025-03-19 13:45:05 +0100tabaqui(~tabaqui@167.71.80.236) tabaqui
2025-03-19 13:50:23 +0100ystael(~ystael@user/ystael) ystael
2025-03-19 13:52:13 +0100tremon(~tremon@83.80.159.219) tremon
2025-03-19 13:52:38 +0100 <lxsameer> __monty__: thank you, I'm aware of that
2025-03-19 13:57:39 +0100alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee
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2025-03-19 15:21:53 +0100Guest47(~Guest47@2600:387:f:7e1b::3)
2025-03-19 15:22:25 +0100tomsmeding(~tomsmedin@static.21.109.88.23.clients.your-server.de) (Changing host)
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2025-03-19 15:36:22 +0100ThePenguin(~ThePengui@cust-95-80-24-166.csbnet.se) ThePenguin
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2025-03-19 16:09:20 +0100Everything(~Everythin@static.208.206.21.65.clients.your-server.de) Everything
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2025-03-19 16:57:52 +0100Digitteknohippie(~user@user/digit) Digit
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2025-03-19 18:40:12 +0100 <EvanR> the main data type in GHC.Core is data Expr b = ... where it says b is the type of binder. Which it uses directly in the lambda and case constructors. So the Expr is tagged with a type in the host language? Then reviewing the whole type, it seems odd there is no way to change the b deeper in the expression tree
2025-03-19 18:40:33 +0100 <EvanR> if there's a sublambda, it'll have the same b as the top level lambda?
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2025-03-19 20:18:11 +0100 <[exa]> tomsmeding: thanks a lot! re massiv, in the end repa seems somewhat more lightweight&transparent but no strong opinion in there
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2025-03-19 20:58:42 +0100ash3en(~Thunderbi@ip1f10cbd6.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) ash3en
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2025-03-19 21:03:01 +0100lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-03-19 21:07:37 +0100sprotte24(~sprotte24@p200300d16f414f00d95fa8d2f58ba4f5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2025-03-19 21:15:35 +0100 <tomsmeding> EvanR: look at `type CoreExpr = Expr CoreBndr`
2025-03-19 21:15:44 +0100 <tomsmeding> that b is the type of variable references
2025-03-19 21:16:10 +0100 <tomsmeding> [exa]: I see!
2025-03-19 21:16:32 +0100 <[exa]> tomsmeding: ok I rechecked the massiv guide just now and now I can't really tell whats the main difference between the packages :D
2025-03-19 21:16:40 +0100 <tomsmeding> they look similar to me too
2025-03-19 21:16:45 +0100 <tomsmeding> probably in the details there are differences
2025-03-19 21:17:06 +0100 <EvanR> I see, it's not any old type
2025-03-19 21:17:15 +0100 <tomsmeding> [exa]: massiv seems to have a few more representation types?
2025-03-19 21:17:28 +0100TheCoffeMaker_(~TheCoffeM@186.136.173.70) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-03-19 21:18:39 +0100 <[exa]> yeah all searches basically say "a little richer and more maintained"
2025-03-19 21:18:47 +0100 <[exa]> ok good, sold, thanks!
2025-03-19 21:19:55 +0100 <tomsmeding> repa is definitely not being actively maintained
2025-03-19 21:20:06 +0100 <tomsmeding> not sure it _matters_ so much if it works
2025-03-19 21:20:51 +0100 <tomsmeding> wait a sec repa has updates? TIL
2025-03-19 21:21:36 +0100dhil(~dhil@2a0c:b381:52e:3600:e6af:ac8c:7aa:72f4) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-03-19 21:23:45 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@ip5f5ad695.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-03-19 21:27:06 +0100 <[exa]> tomsmeding: looks a bit weird there, github says last release 4.1.0.1 in 2015, hackage has 3.4.2.0 as latest
2025-03-19 21:27:37 +0100[exa]confused
2025-03-19 21:27:41 +0100 <tomsmeding> perhaps they didn't create github tags for the releases?
2025-03-19 21:27:58 +0100 <[exa]> nah more like they didn't release on hackage
2025-03-19 21:28:06 +0100 <tomsmeding> uh
2025-03-19 21:28:12 +0100 <tomsmeding> isn't it hackage that has the new versions?
2025-03-19 21:28:36 +0100 <tomsmeding> oh
2025-03-19 21:28:38 +0100 <tomsmeding> wait
2025-03-19 21:28:46 +0100 <[exa]> didn't look to me like that but maybe 3.4 is newer than 4.1 because of some versioning LTS strategy or what
2025-03-19 21:28:47 +0100 <tomsmeding> this is highly confusing
2025-03-19 21:29:15 +0100 <[exa]> well
2025-03-19 21:29:17 +0100 <[exa]> https://groups.google.com/g/haskell-repa/c/ULjCQC8nJL8
2025-03-19 21:29:27 +0100 <tomsmeding> ok those github releases just make no sense, perhaps?
2025-03-19 21:30:08 +0100 <tomsmeding> right
2025-03-19 21:30:16 +0100 <[exa]> I'm confused all the way to massiv now
2025-03-19 21:30:36 +0100 <tomsmeding> I don't think this is a reason to move from repa though, however many others there may be
2025-03-19 21:30:48 +0100 <tomsmeding> it seems maintained with a new release just a few months ago
2025-03-19 21:30:58 +0100 <tomsmeding> that 4.1.0.1 release on github was an experiment, apparently
2025-03-19 21:31:08 +0100 <tomsmeding> with 3.4 being the main branch
2025-03-19 21:31:10 +0100 <[exa]> yes they're on this trac thing, not github
2025-03-19 21:31:40 +0100 <tomsmeding> those remarks about vectorisation apply just as well to massiv
2025-03-19 21:32:35 +0100 <tomsmeding> any array library in haskell with higher-order operations like map/fold/scan/etc. will not be super-fast
2025-03-19 21:33:05 +0100 <tomsmeding> first-order operations like sum, add-two-arrays-elementwise, multiply-two-arrays-elementwise, etc. can be fast just fine by writing and FFI'ing in some C code
2025-03-19 21:33:12 +0100 <tomsmeding> hmatrix does that
2025-03-19 21:33:53 +0100 <tomsmeding> accelerate retains the higher-order array operations (SOACs, in the lingo in the field) but ceases being a "normal" library, being a deeply embedded DSL instead
2025-03-19 21:34:24 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@95.90.214.149)
2025-03-19 21:34:32 +0100 <tomsmeding> to get around the fact that GHC is not good at compiling fast numerical code
2025-03-19 21:35:05 +0100wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-03-19 21:35:20 +0100 <tomsmeding> I'm hacking on something that can be seen as a competitor to hmatrix, but it's not stable enough yet
2025-03-19 21:37:24 +0100 <[exa]> that would be great tbh
2025-03-19 21:37:49 +0100 <[exa]> like, for numerical things I still just go to julia
2025-03-19 21:38:03 +0100alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee
2025-03-19 21:38:23 +0100 <[exa]> this above is the first attempt because I want a few computers to talk to each other about what they compute and I don't see myself debugging this without usable types
2025-03-19 21:40:02 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-03-19 21:40:29 +0100fp1(~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::1370) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-03-19 21:42:30 +0100alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-03-19 21:46:36 +0100 <tomsmeding> protip: if you are having computers talk to each other about what they compute, you should instead say "I'm doing distributed computing", that sounds cooler
2025-03-19 21:46:54 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-03-19 21:48:13 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2025-03-19 21:51:20 +0100sabathan(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-03-19 21:51:24 +0100 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Even better if you call it a "HPC cluster"
2025-03-19 21:51:24 +0100 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Or smth like
2025-03-19 21:51:59 +0100 <[exa]> tomsmeding: it doesn't really classify, it's got a centralized coordinator and I ignore any failure etc.
2025-03-19 21:52:57 +0100 <[exa]> "distributed computing" somehow means to me "I'm proud that my programs can resynchronize after 6 years of lag and the user doesn't notice the outage"
2025-03-19 21:53:08 +0100 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Its a still cluster, just a bad one
2025-03-19 21:53:28 +0100 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Kubernetes is "distributed computing" and kubernetes barely works on a single node let alone 30
2025-03-19 21:53:31 +0100 <tomsmeding> [exa]: that just means you have standards
2025-03-19 21:53:33 +0100 <davean> Just because you suck at it doesn't mean you aren't doing it. Actualyl being failure tolerant is usaully a good strategy
2025-03-19 21:53:36 +0100 <[exa]> I'm okay with "bad cluster computing"
2025-03-19 21:53:39 +0100killy(~killy@terminal-3-187.retsat1.com.pl)
2025-03-19 21:53:44 +0100 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Lmao
2025-03-19 21:54:15 +0100 <[exa]> c'mon guys I have standards, the comparison to kubes hurt :D
2025-03-19 21:54:48 +0100 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Hey if your things works without requiring a Phd in it, its already surpassed k8s
2025-03-19 21:54:51 +0100 <davean> magic_rb: Everyone knows LPC is healthier for you
2025-03-19 21:55:13 +0100sabathan(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-03-19 21:55:27 +0100 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> You dont like the sound of whirring servers and harddrives ?? Weird
2025-03-19 21:55:51 +0100 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Its what i play when im trying to fall asleep, (unironically)
2025-03-19 21:56:13 +0100 <[exa]> davean: somehow I first read that as "being failure tolerant as a distributed computing user is a good strategy". Which is truly eternal.
2025-03-19 21:58:06 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-03-19 22:04:15 +0100zenstoic(uid461840@id-461840.hampstead.irccloud.com) zenstoic
2025-03-19 22:04:59 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-03-19 22:06:11 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-03-19 22:06:24 +0100killy(~killy@terminal-3-187.retsat1.com.pl) (Quit: leaving)
2025-03-19 22:07:03 +0100jespada(~jespada@2800:a4:22a5:eb00:d0e6:7a9a:56c8:f73b) (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-03-19 22:11:21 +0100Googulator88(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0ae4-b88c-ff83-9891-e272.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-03-19 22:13:11 +0100Googulator3(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0ae4-b88c-ff83-9891-e272.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-03-19 22:13:20 +0100 <[exa]> tomsmeding: btw anything specific in that hmatrix-like package?
2025-03-19 22:13:32 +0100[exa]looking forward