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2024-11-19 00:23:00 +0100 <iteratee> briandead: Yes, it looks like that was fixed for reading from a file, but it was left unchanged for reading from a bytestring.
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2024-11-19 10:17:26 +0100 <Leary> So I'm generating instances with TH, but I'm not sure how best to deal with messy constraints. I can generate a /sufficient/ (highly redundant and simplifiable) constraint easily, but cleaning it up looks to be quite a hassle. Any tips?
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2024-11-19 10:55:35 +0100 <jackdk> Generate deriving via instances instead of generating the constraint directly, maybe?
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2024-11-19 11:02:09 +0100 <Leary> jackdk: Hmmm. So the idea is to hide the messy instances by tying them to a private newtype wrapper, then produce a standalone `deriving instance ... via ...` declaration, for which GHC would infer a clean context? Sounds feasible...
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2024-11-19 11:13:12 +0100 <jackdk> Something like that. I don't know enough about your problem to be sure
2024-11-19 11:18:31 +0100 <Leary> jackdk: For e.g. `type data Wibble = Wobble Foo | Nibble Wibble Wibble` I'm writing TH that ought to generate `deriving instance Show (Wibble @ t)` given that we already have `Show! Foo` in scope, but really it will generate `deriving instance (Show! Foo, Show! Wibble, Show! Wibble) => Show (Wibble @ t)`.
2024-11-19 11:19:23 +0100 <Leary> (where `type f ! k = forall t. f (k @ t)`)
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2024-11-19 12:01:56 +0100 <kuribas> Would it be possible to train a llm to generate better error messages?
2024-11-19 12:02:31 +0100 <Hecate> kuribas: hahahahahahaha
2024-11-19 12:02:32 +0100 <Hecate> you silly
2024-11-19 12:02:33 +0100 <Hecate> :P
2024-11-19 12:03:01 +0100 <int-e> @ghc
2024-11-19 12:03:01 +0100 <lambdabot> Its main purpose is to encapsulate the Horrible State Hack
2024-11-19 12:03:04 +0100 <kuribas> Is that so outrageous?
2024-11-19 12:03:20 +0100 <int-e> @ghc
2024-11-19 12:03:20 +0100 <lambdabot> the eta-reduction property does not hold
2024-11-19 12:03:28 +0100 <Hecate> kuribas: no it's not outrageous, it's ridiculous :P
2024-11-19 12:03:30 +0100 <int-e> kuribas: define "better"
2024-11-19 12:03:41 +0100 <kuribas> More beginner friendly.
2024-11-19 12:04:00 +0100 <int-e> but error messages need to be accurate
2024-11-19 12:04:02 +0100 <kuribas> I am happy with GHC error messages, but I am interested in creating a general purpose dependently typed language.
2024-11-19 12:04:06 +0100 <int-e> and LLMs are terrible at that
2024-11-19 12:04:11 +0100 <Hecate> kuribas: To rephrase your suggestion: "Would it be possible to train an LLM on an existing dataset to generate new things, which an LLM simply cannot?"
2024-11-19 12:04:35 +0100 <kuribas> Or maybe elaborate a bit then?
2024-11-19 12:04:40 +0100 <Hecate> kuribas: ah, DT languages with good ergonomics are something that need you to advance the state of the art
2024-11-19 12:04:52 +0100 <kuribas> Hecate: agreed :)
2024-11-19 12:04:53 +0100 <Hecate> best case, an LLM will feed off of your work later
2024-11-19 12:05:07 +0100 <kuribas> When dabbling with idris I feel there is a lot of low hanging fruit there.
2024-11-19 12:05:14 +0100 <Hecate> there are indeed
2024-11-19 12:05:16 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@178.115.41.15.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-11-19 12:05:23 +0100 <Hecate> maybe improve idris too while you're at it? :D
2024-11-19 12:05:33 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@178.115.41.15.wireless.dyn.drei.com) ubert
2024-11-19 12:05:35 +0100 <kuribas> yeah ...
2024-11-19 12:05:52 +0100 <kuribas> One blocking issue for me with idris and error messages is the ad-hoc polymorphism.
2024-11-19 12:06:05 +0100 <kuribas> Which makes getting accurate error message difficult.
2024-11-19 12:06:18 +0100 <kuribas> And type checking very slow.
2024-11-19 12:07:20 +0100 <kuribas> It's a nice to have in idris, because it allows syntactic overloading, but I am not sure it is necessary to have.
2024-11-19 12:09:56 +0100notzmv(~daniel@user/notzmv) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-11-19 12:10:02 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@178.115.41.15.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2024-11-19 12:10:49 +0100sawilagar(~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) sawilagar
2024-11-19 12:11:12 +0100 <kuribas> For example, do can be overloaded by defining your own (>>=) function.
2024-11-19 12:21:35 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@178.115.41.15.wireless.dyn.drei.com) ubert
2024-11-19 12:29:18 +0100pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) siracusa
2024-11-19 12:29:34 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@178.115.41.15.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-11-19 12:31:19 +0100 <geekosaur> we have that in at least two ways though (RebindableSyntax and QualifiedDo)
2024-11-19 12:31:19 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-11-19 12:32:28 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2024-11-19 12:34:08 +0100lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) (Quit: WeeChat 4.4.2)
2024-11-19 12:36:54 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-19 12:38:18 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-001-000-183.176.1.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-11-19 12:39:20 +0100igemnace(~igemnace@user/igemnace) (Quit: ZNC 1.9.0+deb2build3 - https://znc.in)
2024-11-19 12:40:42 +0100Smiles(uid551636@id-551636.lymington.irccloud.com) Smiles
2024-11-19 12:42:10 +0100igemnace(~igemnace@user/igemnace) igemnace
2024-11-19 12:43:05 +0100housemate(~housemate@2a04:9dc0:0:162::5d91:d7ed) housemate
2024-11-19 12:45:55 +0100 <hellwolf> what's the standard "hush" function for Ether a b -> Maybe b?
2024-11-19 12:45:58 +0100 <hellwolf> I can't find one.
2024-11-19 12:46:39 +0100sprotte24(~sprotte24@p200300d16f3e1d00202469f625d2cba6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2024-11-19 12:46:47 +0100 <mari-estel> @hoogle Either a b -> Maybe b
2024-11-19 12:46:48 +0100 <lambdabot> Data.Either.Combinators rightToMaybe :: Either a b -> Maybe b
2024-11-19 12:46:48 +0100 <lambdabot> Data.Either.Extra eitherToMaybe :: Either a b -> Maybe b
2024-11-19 12:46:48 +0100 <lambdabot> Extra eitherToMaybe :: Either a b -> Maybe b
2024-11-19 12:47:08 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@178.115.41.15.wireless.dyn.drei.com) ubert
2024-11-19 12:47:12 +0100 <mari-estel> @hoogle Either a b -> Maybe a
2024-11-19 12:47:13 +0100 <lambdabot> Data.Either.Combinators leftToMaybe :: Either a b -> Maybe a
2024-11-19 12:47:13 +0100 <lambdabot> Rebase.Prelude leftToMaybe :: () => Either a b -> Maybe a
2024-11-19 12:47:13 +0100 <lambdabot> Protolude leftToMaybe :: Either l r -> Maybe l
2024-11-19 12:47:29 +0100 <hellwolf> so lambdabot doesn't show which package it's from.
2024-11-19 12:47:41 +0100sprotte24(~sprotte24@p200300d16f3e1d00202469f625d2cba6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Client Quit)
2024-11-19 12:47:47 +0100 <hellwolf> but I can't find it from base... :/
2024-11-19 12:48:03 +0100 <geekosaur> it's not in base
2024-11-19 12:48:26 +0100 <geekosaur> eitherToMaybe = either Nothing Just
2024-11-19 12:48:35 +0100 <geekosaur> er
2024-11-19 12:48:42 +0100 <geekosaur> eitherToMaybe = either (const Nothing) Just
2024-11-19 12:49:16 +0100 <dminuoso> It's usually called `hush`
2024-11-19 12:49:25 +0100 <geekosaur> I think losing information is not encouraged, though
2024-11-19 12:50:01 +0100 <dminuoso> Every non-injective loses information. :-)
2024-11-19 12:51:11 +0100 <hellwolf> yea, fair enough. in this case, the error information is not too useful in production.
2024-11-19 12:51:24 +0100 <hellwolf> I opt just inline it: case S.decode bs of Left _ -> Nothing; Right a -> Just (ADDR a)
2024-11-19 12:52:00 +0100 <dminuoso> hellwolf: You can alsoo just write `either Nothing Just` inline.
2024-11-19 12:52:15 +0100yaroot(~yaroot@2400:4052:ac0:d901:1cf4:2aff:fe51:c04c) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-11-19 12:52:23 +0100 <dminuoso> Or `either nothing (Just . Addr)` in your case.
2024-11-19 12:52:45 +0100 <hellwolf> That's smart
2024-11-19 12:53:22 +0100 <Leary> % :t asum . fmap Just
2024-11-19 12:53:22 +0100 <yahb2> asum . fmap Just :: (Foldable t, Functor t) => t a -> Maybe a
2024-11-19 12:53:28 +0100 <Leary> Another option.
2024-11-19 12:53:36 +0100yaroot(~yaroot@2400:4052:ac0:d901:1cf4:2aff:fe51:c04c) yaroot
2024-11-19 12:53:53 +0100 <hellwolf> $ echo 'make this shorter: case S.decode bs of Left _ -> Nothing; Right a -> Just (ADDR a)' | chatgpt
2024-11-19 12:53:53 +0100 <hellwolf> This: S.decode bs >>= Just . ADDR
2024-11-19 12:54:13 +0100 <dminuoso> That looks wrong
2024-11-19 12:54:35 +0100 <hellwolf> it compiles. actually it's correct. since Either is a monad
2024-11-19 12:54:45 +0100 <hellwolf> no, it doesn't compile
2024-11-19 12:54:46 +0100 <hellwolf> sorry
2024-11-19 12:54:48 +0100 <hellwolf> bad gpt
2024-11-19 12:54:59 +0100 <dminuoso> hellwolf: Here's a quick hint
2024-11-19 12:55:02 +0100 <dminuoso> :t (>>=)
2024-11-19 12:55:03 +0100 <lambdabot> Monad m => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b
2024-11-19 12:55:14 +0100 <dminuoso> Note that it's the same `m` here in both arguments and the resultg?
2024-11-19 12:56:10 +0100 <hellwolf> yea, got it, it would stay Either
2024-11-19 12:56:43 +0100 <hellwolf> but "either" is good. here shows my lack of production experience of Haskell, in general. I only plays around :)
2024-11-19 12:57:47 +0100 <dminuoso> No worries. Leary's answer is more clever, though if you are curious.
2024-11-19 12:59:33 +0100 <hellwolf> yes, that's interest. but I had to import Data.Applicative
2024-11-19 12:59:54 +0100 <hellwolf> same for nothing <-- where is it even from? I used Const nothing
2024-11-19 13:00:04 +0100son0p(~ff@2800:e2:f80:ee7::4) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-11-19 13:00:09 +0100caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye)
2024-11-19 13:00:23 +0100 <dminuoso> hellwolf: You can use hoogle https://hoogle.haskell.org/?hoogle=nothing to discover likely origins of identifiers.
2024-11-19 13:01:09 +0100 <dminuoso> As you can see, it's from other packages. I think hoogle always lists `base` references first.
2024-11-19 13:01:33 +0100 <dminuoso> (Or maybe its defined in some module in your project)
2024-11-19 13:02:01 +0100caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
2024-11-19 13:03:22 +0100sroso(~sroso@user/SrOso) (Quit: Leaving :))
2024-11-19 13:03:31 +0100chiselfuse(~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-11-19 13:05:40 +0100 <hellwolf> I can't wrap my head around intuitively wrt asum. fmap Just. I can see the type matches.
2024-11-19 13:05:41 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-11-19 13:05:41 +0100stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-11-19 13:05:58 +0100 <hellwolf> "The sum of a collection of actions using (<|>), generalizing concat."
2024-11-19 13:07:40 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937
2024-11-19 13:07:46 +0100mari-estel(~mari-este@user/mari-estel) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-11-19 13:08:08 +0100chiselfuse(~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse) chiselfuse
2024-11-19 13:09:03 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@178.115.41.15.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-19 13:10:52 +0100 <kuribas> geekosaur: It's not the same. In haskell you must have a non ambiguous way to resolve (>>=), but in idris it's overloaded, it will do a search.
2024-11-19 13:11:57 +0100 <kuribas> geekosaur: rebindable syntax will use the (>>=) in scope, but in idris it will try every definition of (>>=), and pick the one that typechecks..
2024-11-19 13:12:56 +0100 <Leary> Sounds evil. Isn't that just IncoherentInstances?
2024-11-19 13:14:20 +0100 <kuribas> Leary: no, that's just type checking, implicit resolution and proof search are different features.
2024-11-19 13:14:30 +0100 <kuribas> instance resolution corresponds to proof search.
2024-11-19 13:14:46 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-11-19 13:14:59 +0100 <kuribas> Literally. They merged the auto implicit feature and type classes.
2024-11-19 13:15:06 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937
2024-11-19 13:15:16 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-001-000-183.176.1.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-11-19 13:15:28 +0100 <dminuoso> Sounds like the type system way of duck typing. :-)
2024-11-19 13:15:34 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2024-11-19 13:15:48 +0100 <dminuoso> If it type checks like a duck, we shall make it a duck.
2024-11-19 13:16:15 +0100 <kuribas> Isn't duck typing the equivalent of type classes?
2024-11-19 13:17:25 +0100 <dminuoso> Id say not really.
2024-11-19 13:18:26 +0100stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) stiell
2024-11-19 13:18:42 +0100 <kuribas> Well, if duck typing is structural typing, then idris doesn't have it, but it's possible to emulate it with dependent types.
2024-11-19 13:18:44 +0100Digit(~user@user/digit) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-11-19 13:19:04 +0100lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) lortabac
2024-11-19 13:19:06 +0100 <kuribas> For example anonymous records.
2024-11-19 13:19:10 +0100 <dminuoso> In duck typing, rather than formally (via a type system) asserting that you have some sort of impedance match between componets (say the function signature with the passed arguments), if it works out at runtime, thats just as good.
2024-11-19 13:19:40 +0100 <kuribas> "if it works out". If it doesn't, you get an unpredictable error.
2024-11-19 13:19:47 +0100 <dminuoso> Duck typing is nothing that you can sensibly annotate with formal names, because its a very loose abstract idea.
2024-11-19 13:20:04 +0100 <dminuoso> Well, the "if it doesn't" is not something that duck type proponents really worry about.
2024-11-19 13:20:17 +0100 <kuribas> looks like structural subtyping to me: https://peps.python.org/pep-0544/
2024-11-19 13:20:41 +0100 <dminuoso> It mostly arises from the idea of smalltalk object orientation, where if some object behaves as if it was a duck, you can just call it a duck.
2024-11-19 13:21:34 +0100 <dminuoso> kuribas: Structural subtyping captures some, but not all commonly mentioned, ideas of duck typing.
2024-11-19 13:23:29 +0100 <mauke> structural doctyping
2024-11-19 13:31:18 +0100JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty
2024-11-19 13:31:26 +0100 <bwe> I'd like to define some instances for a type class without the member of the class as argument, like `f :: Int` instead of `f :: a -> Int`. Reason: Before `a` gets constructed, I need some functions that are specific to the variant of `a`. Which approaches do you recommend?
2024-11-19 13:34:47 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> Proxy
2024-11-19 13:34:47 +0100 <haskellbridge> or AmbiguousTypes
2024-11-19 13:34:55 +0100 <Leary> bwe: Proxies and TypeApplications are the usual options. If you're fine with being limited to GHC 9.10 or newer you can use RequiredTypeArguments instead.
2024-11-19 13:36:30 +0100 <mauke> f :: Const Int a
2024-11-19 13:40:05 +0100sawilagar(~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-11-19 13:40:23 +0100sawilagar(~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) sawilagar
2024-11-19 13:41:48 +0100notzmv(~daniel@user/notzmv) notzmv
2024-11-19 13:44:39 +0100alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3201-1725-d030-8edc-2b2b-9bf9.rev.sfr.net) alexherbo2
2024-11-19 13:47:11 +0100 <bwe> mauke: Excellent. Does my job.
2024-11-19 13:49:37 +0100 <hellwolf> interesting :)
2024-11-19 13:49:49 +0100 <hellwolf> Const () a probably could work too
2024-11-19 13:50:09 +0100 <mauke> that's just Proxy
2024-11-19 13:50:56 +0100carbolymer(~carbolyme@dropacid.net) carbolymer
2024-11-19 13:52:13 +0100 <hellwolf> right. I also misread the original question, in the first place.
2024-11-19 13:56:06 +0100lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2024-11-19 14:00:27 +0100Digit(~user@user/digit) Digit
2024-11-19 14:01:03 +0100ash3en(~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) (Quit: ash3en)
2024-11-19 14:01:13 +0100acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f33f1310e0154b357f3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2024-11-19 14:01:21 +0100ash3en(~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) ash3en
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2024-11-19 14:05:37 +0100sand-witch(~m-mzmz6l@vmi833741.contaboserver.net)
2024-11-19 14:07:08 +0100 <Leary> Oh, bit late, but I thought of something cute and silly!
2024-11-19 14:07:14 +0100 <Leary> % :t find \_ -> True
2024-11-19 14:07:14 +0100 <yahb2> find \_ -> True :: Foldable t => t a -> Maybe a
2024-11-19 14:07:17 +0100 <Leary> hellwolf: ^
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2024-11-19 14:19:34 +0100housemate(~housemate@2a04:9dc0:0:162::5d91:d7ed) housemate