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2024/10/14

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2024-10-14 02:21:36 +0200 <Square> How do you deal with multimodule project (cabal.project) when using nix? Separate callCabal2Nix for each module?
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2024-10-14 02:33:11 +0200 <jackdk> The two approaches I use are: "have nix provide GHC+cabal, let cabal do packages", or "use haskell.nix". This avoids lots of fiddly package set overlay splicing, and regenerating the shell when a dependency changes.
2024-10-14 02:34:09 +0200 <Inst> incoherence can be handled at the compilation stage, i.e, if you're trying to use an instance for which there is no imported typeclass, you throw an error
2024-10-14 02:34:21 +0200tabemann(~tabemann@2600:1700:7990:24e0:14d2:2457:bd7:5741)
2024-10-14 02:35:23 +0200 <geekosaur> that's not incoherence
2024-10-14 02:35:48 +0200 <geekosaur> incoherence is "two modules use different instances for the same type"
2024-10-14 02:35:56 +0200 <Inst> is it reasonable to wish to control the exporting of instances / typeclasses?
2024-10-14 02:37:06 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-14 02:37:19 +0200 <geekosaur> not when it leads to incoherence, no
2024-10-14 02:37:38 +0200 <geekosaur> and the only way to prevent incoherence is to force instances to be global
2024-10-14 02:37:47 +0200 <jackdk> IMHO no. That way lies madness, like the producer and consumer of a `Ord k => Map k v` disagreeing on which `Ord` to use for `k`. And then you just can't find entries which you are 100% certain that you put into your map.
2024-10-14 02:38:24 +0200 <geekosaur> well, for that one it's actually something of a hack. IMO SML/NJ does it the right way
2024-10-14 02:39:31 +0200 <geekosaur> (the Ord instance equivalent is owned by the Map, not by what Ord instance is in scope at use sites)
2024-10-14 02:40:49 +0200 <geekosaur> *not determined by
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2024-10-14 02:47:58 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-10-14 02:48:45 +0200 <Square> jackdk, thanks
2024-10-14 02:52:52 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-14 02:55:29 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2024-10-14 02:58:15 +0200 <monochrom> Perhaps the misguided want of localized unexported instances comes from mistaking type classes for OO interfaces.
2024-10-14 03:03:15 +0200 <probie> geekosaur: without the one true Ord instance for a type, how do you efficiently union two maps? SML/NJ sidesteps this because two maps instantiated with different ORD_KEYs will be different types.
2024-10-14 03:03:41 +0200 <geekosaur> isn't that kinda the point, though?
2024-10-14 03:03:47 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-10-14 03:04:16 +0200 <monochrom> You can union two maps created from the same instantiated module.
2024-10-14 03:04:48 +0200 <monochrom> Recall that an instantiated module gives you a suite of map functions, not a map.
2024-10-14 03:04:57 +0200 <geekosaur> right
2024-10-14 03:05:25 +0200 <monochrom> So use the same suite to create two maps and use the same suite to union the two maps.
2024-10-14 03:05:38 +0200 <probie> But how do you do that in Haskell?
2024-10-14 03:06:05 +0200 <monochrom> Haskell doesn't have SML's parameterized module system. OK OK I will emulate it.
2024-10-14 03:06:09 +0200 <geekosaur> that was my point: you don't. we use a typeclass hack instead
2024-10-14 03:06:40 +0200 <geekosaur> and I don't think Backpack can quite pull off emulating this, for all its pretensions toward providing MLish "functors"
2024-10-14 03:07:13 +0200 <monochrom> I will also need existential type.
2024-10-14 03:08:14 +0200zmt00(~zmt00@user/zmt00) zmt00
2024-10-14 03:08:48 +0200 <monochrom> data M a = forall t. M{empty :: t, insert :: a -> t -> t, union :: t -> t -> a, etc etc}
2024-10-14 03:10:02 +0200 <monochrom> instantiate :: (a -> a -> Ordering) -> M a; instantiate cmp = M{empty = ... ; insert = ... use cmp ..., union = ... use cmp ..., etc}
2024-10-14 03:10:28 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-14 03:11:18 +0200 <geekosaur> Inst did earlier hint that he thought we were trying to find ways to emulate OOP in Haskell. (No, we aren't. OOP is something else. If I want OOP, I'll use an OO language, not Haskell; I have and use multiple tools.)
2024-10-14 03:11:53 +0200 <probie> I think we're probably all in agreement about every fact here. I just misinterpreted intent and mistook the comment as "Haskell should do what SML/NJ" does, not "SML/NJ does this in a nice a way, unlike Haskell"
2024-10-14 03:12:10 +0200tonyday567(~tonyday56@125-63-10-162.ip4.superloop.au)
2024-10-14 03:12:15 +0200 <geekosaur> right, I meant the latter
2024-10-14 03:12:34 +0200 <monochrom> A user will have to do everything under the same instantiate call. user = let m{empty, insert, union} = instantiate myCompare in union (insert 2 (insert 3 empty)) (insert 1 (insert 2 empty)))
2024-10-14 03:13:07 +0200 <probie> s/" does/does"/
2024-10-14 03:13:32 +0200 <monochrom> Eh, I think Haskell has a nice way and SML has a nice way.
2024-10-14 03:13:56 +0200 <geekosaur> (I like SML/NJ's approach, but not so much that I'm abandoning Haskell for it…)
2024-10-14 03:14:47 +0200 <c_wraith> And if you *really* need bad hacks, just remember there's always the reflection package!
2024-10-14 03:14:58 +0200 <monochrom> :( :)
2024-10-14 03:14:58 +0200raehik(~raehik@rdng-25-b2-v4wan-169990-cust1344.vm39.cable.virginm.net) raehik
2024-10-14 03:15:03 +0200 <probie> Haskell's way means I can't safely use a `Double` as a key in a `Map` without needing to wrap it in a newtype
2024-10-14 03:15:07 +0200 <geekosaur> I did for a moment wonder if that could be abused to do this…
2024-10-14 03:15:21 +0200 <monochrom> Yes it totally can.
2024-10-14 03:15:57 +0200 <monochrom> I think it is the whole point. When some abuses have just causes and don't count as abuses.
2024-10-14 03:17:22 +0200alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3108-bfa0-f1d8-4d0f-e5fc-d7b0.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-10-14 03:17:35 +0200 <monochrom> But here is a clean hack someone and I thought up: https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2017-May/127147.html
2024-10-14 03:18:04 +0200 <dolio> What part can't backpack do? Not that it's nice to do this.
2024-10-14 03:18:33 +0200alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3108-bfa0-ddfb-d52c-f0fd-2cc2.rev.sfr.net) alexherbo2
2024-10-14 03:18:39 +0200 <geekosaur> local open, I think, so you can parameteerize different maps differently?
2024-10-14 03:18:46 +0200 <geekosaur> within the same module
2024-10-14 03:19:37 +0200 <dolio> Oh. Well, you can parameterize the map functor multiple ways, I think. But it's not going to happen very locally.
2024-10-14 03:20:13 +0200 <dolio> Like, not within a definition in a module, certainly.
2024-10-14 03:20:48 +0200 <geekosaur> I thought that was what `open` was for?
2024-10-14 03:21:33 +0200 <dolio> Only like, 'this module uses multiple map implementations, which happen to be two different instantiations of the same functor.'
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2024-10-14 03:22:34 +0200 <monochrom> Haskell doesn't have local open, not even for unparametrized 0th-order modules. Let's not talk about local open.
2024-10-14 03:23:03 +0200 <dolio> Yeah.
2024-10-14 03:23:40 +0200 <monochrom> So with backpack you have to split code into more files than SML requires, but you can still import multiple instantiations into the same user file.
2024-10-14 03:24:01 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-14 03:24:06 +0200 <geekosaur> that was my point. backpack claims to add parameterized modules, but it doesn't and can't provide this so it's not anywhere near as useful as it should be
2024-10-14 03:24:27 +0200 <monochrom> If you instantiate Map two ways, you write two files, one per instantiation. In a third file---the user file---you import both.
2024-10-14 03:24:33 +0200 <dolio> I don't understand what you mean by "it doesn't."
2024-10-14 03:24:52 +0200 <dolio> It does, but you still can't only import a module in a where clause or something.
2024-10-14 03:25:07 +0200 <geekosaur> exactly
2024-10-14 03:25:24 +0200 <geekosaur> let's put it this way: they're not first class if you cant' do that
2024-10-14 03:25:52 +0200 <dolio> But they are parameterized.
2024-10-14 03:26:12 +0200 <monochrom> I don't know, here is what I think, maybe too extreme: Nevermind paramtrizing. Would this make sense: "Haskell claims to have modules, but there is no open so it doesn't count".
2024-10-14 03:27:05 +0200 <geekosaur> I didn't say either of those. I said it does not emulate ML functors. The MLish concept of functor includes first-class-ness, including local instantiation.
2024-10-14 03:27:31 +0200 <geekosaur> I specifically did not limit it to parameterization
2024-10-14 03:28:39 +0200 <geekosaur> (I will grant that Backpack was always on the losing side of that one: it requires an actual language change, it can't be simulated the way simply parameterizing modules sort-of can be)
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2024-10-14 07:28:11 +0200raehik(~raehik@rdng-25-b2-v4wan-169990-cust1344.vm39.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-10-14 07:28:35 +0200michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.203)
2024-10-14 07:29:00 +0200rosco(~rosco@175.136.22.30) rosco
2024-10-14 07:29:32 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-10-14 07:30:05 +0200Sgeo_(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-10-14 07:35:53 +0200arahael(~arahael@user/arahael) arahael
2024-10-14 07:39:25 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-10-14 07:40:30 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-10-14 07:45:21 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-10-14 07:48:28 +0200euphores(~SASL_euph@user/euphores) (Quit: Leaving.)
2024-10-14 07:56:16 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-10-14 07:56:34 +0200euphores(~SASL_euph@user/euphores) euphores
2024-10-14 08:01:29 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-10-14 08:02:22 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-10-14 08:12:03 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-10-14 08:16:05 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@2a05:5800:2ca:cd00:ca4b:d6ff:fec1:99da) CiaoSen
2024-10-14 08:17:15 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-10-14 08:25:42 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-10-14 08:29:52 +0200sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937
2024-10-14 08:30:33 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-14 08:33:43 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-10-14 08:41:29 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-10-14 08:46:05 +0200ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2024-10-14 08:46:29 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-10-14 08:47:24 +0200ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Client Quit)
2024-10-14 08:51:37 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e72cfb26e8fbd6c0b96dfe0a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2024-10-14 08:56:54 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-10-14 08:57:18 +0200alp_(~alp@2001:861:e3d6:8f80:2d2d:a36f:43f3:6f49)
2024-10-14 08:59:26 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-10-14 09:00:03 +0200caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye)
2024-10-14 09:00:46 +0200caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
2024-10-14 09:03:45 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-10-14 09:08:11 +0200rosco(~rosco@175.136.22.30) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2024-10-14 09:10:45 +0200oneeyedalien(~oneeyedal@user/oneeyedalien) oneeyedalien
2024-10-14 09:22:05 +0200tonyday567(~tonyday56@125-63-10-162.ip4.superloop.au)
2024-10-14 09:25:14 +0200ridcully(~ridcully@p57b52b67.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: WeeChat 4.4.2)
2024-10-14 09:34:18 +0200mrtz(~mrtz@lewi-19-b2-v4wan-169604-cust1264.vm4.cable.virginm.net)
2024-10-14 09:36:14 +0200briandaed(~root@185.234.210.211)
2024-10-14 09:36:52 +0200ridcully(~ridcully@p57b52138.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) ridcully
2024-10-14 09:37:18 +0200mrtz(~mrtz@lewi-19-b2-v4wan-169604-cust1264.vm4.cable.virginm.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-10-14 09:46:30 +0200oneeyedalien(~oneeyedal@user/oneeyedalien) (Quit: Leaving)
2024-10-14 09:49:20 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@77.22.252.56) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2024-10-14 09:50:19 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-129-042.176.6.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-10-14 09:52:54 +0200synchrom1(~john@2406:5a00:2497:300:b017:a602:11fc:4e3b) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-10-14 09:54:04 +0200synchromesh(~john@2406:5a00:2497:300:b017:a602:11fc:4e3b) synchromesh
2024-10-14 09:54:36 +0200sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-10-14 09:56:12 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d50-99-47-73.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2024-10-14 09:56:32 +0200sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937
2024-10-14 09:56:33 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e72cfb26e8fbd6c0b96dfe0a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-10-14 09:57:39 +0200synchrom1(~john@2406:5a00:2497:300:b017:a602:11fc:4e3b) synchromesh
2024-10-14 09:57:59 +0200fr33domlover(~fr33domlo@towards.vision) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2024-10-14 09:57:59 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2024-10-14 09:57:59 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Client Quit)
2024-10-14 10:00:14 +0200CrunchyFlakes(~CrunchyFl@ip1f13e94e.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2024-10-14 10:00:33 +0200synchromesh(~john@2406:5a00:2497:300:b017:a602:11fc:4e3b) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2024-10-14 10:03:20 +0200fr33domlover(~fr33domlo@towards.vision) fr33domlover
2024-10-14 10:05:29 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) cfricke
2024-10-14 10:06:08 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-129-042.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-10-14 10:07:15 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-007-155-010.176.7.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-10-14 10:08:03 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) lortabac
2024-10-14 10:08:44 +0200lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) lxsameer
2024-10-14 10:18:34 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-007-155-010.176.7.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-10-14 10:19:06 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@77.22.252.56)
2024-10-14 10:30:19 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d50-99-47-73.abhsia.telus.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-10-14 10:31:39 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d50-99-47-73.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2024-10-14 10:31:58 +0200tonyday567(~tonyday56@125-63-10-162.ip4.superloop.au) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-10-14 10:33:49 +0200mreh(~matthew@host86-128-2-51.range86-128.btcentralplus.com) mreh
2024-10-14 10:34:06 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@2a05:5800:2ca:cd00:ca4b:d6ff:fec1:99da) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-10-14 10:35:56 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@77.22.252.56) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-10-14 10:36:03 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-007-155-010.176.7.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-10-14 10:41:09 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) wootehfoot
2024-10-14 10:42:08 +0200kenran(~user@user/kenran) kenran
2024-10-14 10:53:42 +0200ash3en(~Thunderbi@89.246.174.164) ash3en
2024-10-14 10:54:24 +0200vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-10-14 10:56:30 +0200vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal
2024-10-14 11:03:06 +0200ash3en(~Thunderbi@89.246.174.164) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-14 11:03:06 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-007-155-010.176.7.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-14 11:03:33 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-007-155-010.176.7.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-10-14 11:04:26 +0200wanted(~wanted@2.219.56.221) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-10-14 11:16:01 +0200mari-estel(~mari-este@user/danza) danza
2024-10-14 11:18:04 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
2024-10-14 11:26:53 +0200ash3en(~Thunderbi@89.246.174.164) ash3en
2024-10-14 11:29:25 +0200turlando(~turlando@user/turlando) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2024-10-14 11:30:50 +0200turlando(~turlando@user/turlando) turlando
2024-10-14 11:34:00 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) toonn
2024-10-14 11:34:02 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-10-14 11:34:05 +0200comonad(~comonad@p200300d0272bda000e01a379c24cc428.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2024-10-14 11:35:28 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e72cfb26e8fbd6c0b96dfe0a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2024-10-14 11:42:03 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2024-10-14 11:44:51 +0200chexum(~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-10-14 11:49:45 +0200jcarpenter2(~lol@2603:3016:1e01:b9e0:c859:568e:44d5:6cfd) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-10-14 11:59:56 +0200ash3en(~Thunderbi@89.246.174.164) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-14 12:02:02 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) lortabac
2024-10-14 12:02:12 +0200SlackCoder(~SlackCode@64-94-63-8.ip.weststar.net.ky) SlackCoder
2024-10-14 12:05:23 +0200vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-10-14 12:09:26 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-007-155-010.176.7.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-10-14 12:11:00 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-000-159-238.176.0.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-10-14 12:11:52 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) (Quit: WeeChat 4.2.2)
2024-10-14 12:19:44 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-000-159-238.176.0.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-14 12:21:40 +0200hsw(~hsw@2001-b030-2303-0104-0172-0025-0012-0132.hinet-ip6.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-10-14 12:21:53 +0200hsw(~hsw@2001-b030-2303-0104-0172-0025-0012-0132.hinet-ip6.hinet.net) hsw
2024-10-14 12:25:36 +0200malte(~malte@mal.tc) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-10-14 12:26:54 +0200alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-320a-9d11-44be-f9da-6c83-482e.rev.sfr.net) alexherbo2
2024-10-14 12:28:45 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-000-144-052.176.0.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-10-14 12:30:21 +0200mreh(~matthew@host86-128-2-51.range86-128.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-14 12:35:08 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-000-144-052.176.0.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-14 12:39:58 +0200AlexNoo(~AlexNoo@178.34.163.62) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-10-14 12:40:20 +0200AlexNoo(~AlexNoo@178.34.163.62)
2024-10-14 12:49:57 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-10-14 12:49:57 +0200ash3en(~Thunderbi@89.246.174.164) ash3en
2024-10-14 12:58:49 +0200ash3en1(~Thunderbi@146.70.124.222) ash3en
2024-10-14 12:59:00 +0200rmca(~rob@user/rmca) rmca
2024-10-14 13:00:26 +0200ash3en(~Thunderbi@89.246.174.164) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-14 13:00:26 +0200ash3en1ash3en
2024-10-14 13:02:39 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) wootehfoot
2024-10-14 13:02:51 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) lortabac
2024-10-14 13:09:21 +0200blase(~wanted@2.219.56.221)
2024-10-14 13:09:30 +0200fr33domlover(~fr33domlo@towards.vision) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2024-10-14 13:13:10 +0200fr33domlover(~fr33domlo@towards.vision) fr33domlover
2024-10-14 13:15:35 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@2a05:5800:2ca:cd00:ca4b:d6ff:fec1:99da) CiaoSen
2024-10-14 13:20:42 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e72cfb26e8fbd6c0b96dfe0a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-14 13:29:02 +0200kenran(~user@user/kenran) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-10-14 13:32:00 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e72cfb26e8fbd6c0b96dfe0a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2024-10-14 13:33:41 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-000-144-052.176.0.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-10-14 13:40:38 +0200ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2024-10-14 13:52:03 +0200mari-estel(~mari-este@user/danza) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2024-10-14 13:52:08 +0200sayola(~sayola@2a00:20:d308:54cb:f901:4267:f16e:dff0) sayola1
2024-10-14 13:54:32 +0200ljdarj1(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2024-10-14 13:55:42 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-10-14 13:57:33 +0200ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-14 13:57:33 +0200ljdarj1ljdarj
2024-10-14 13:59:44 +0200mari-estel(~mari-este@user/danza) danza
2024-10-14 14:07:03 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-000-144-052.176.0.pool.telefonica.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-10-14 14:07:12 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-000-144-052.176.0.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-10-14 14:07:28 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-000-144-052.176.0.pool.telefonica.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-10-14 14:08:00 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-000-144-052.176.0.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-10-14 14:09:05 +0200ljdarj1(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2024-10-14 14:11:34 +0200mari-estel(~mari-este@user/danza) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-14 14:12:45 +0200ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2024-10-14 14:12:54 +0200mari-estel(~mari-este@user/danza) danza
2024-10-14 14:17:14 +0200sayola(~sayola@2a00:20:d308:54cb:f901:4267:f16e:dff0) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-10-14 14:18:16 +0200sayola(~sayola@2a00:20:d308:54cb:f901:4267:f16e:dff0) sayola1
2024-10-14 14:21:02 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-000-144-052.176.0.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-10-14 14:21:22 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@84.19.220.82)
2024-10-14 14:28:12 +0200chexum(~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) chexum
2024-10-14 14:34:23 +0200identity(~identity@user/ZharMeny) identity
2024-10-14 14:38:42 +0200mari-estel(~mari-este@user/danza) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-14 14:40:04 +0200mari-estel(~mari-este@user/danza) danza
2024-10-14 14:43:18 +0200ash3en(~Thunderbi@146.70.124.222) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-10-14 14:45:37 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@84.19.220.82) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2024-10-14 14:45:55 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-000-144-052.176.0.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-10-14 14:49:19 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@2a05:5800:2ca:cd00:ca4b:d6ff:fec1:99da) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024-10-14 14:50:51 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-10-14 14:53:24 +0200rosco(~rosco@175.136.22.30) rosco
2024-10-14 14:59:58 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-14 15:14:16 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-10-14 15:17:01 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) stiell
2024-10-14 15:27:16 +0200alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-320a-9d11-44be-f9da-6c83-482e.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-10-14 15:27:17 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e72cfb26e8fbd6c0b96dfe0a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-10-14 15:30:21 +0200bh34e5(~bh34e5@user/bh34e5) bh34e5
2024-10-14 15:32:11 +0200Achylles(~Achylles@45.182.57.52) Achylles
2024-10-14 15:32:51 +0200mreh(~matthew@host86-128-2-51.range86-128.btcentralplus.com) mreh
2024-10-14 15:34:46 +0200alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-320a-9d11-14e2-d135-c40b-29b1.rev.sfr.net) alexherbo2
2024-10-14 15:44:18 +0200alp_(~alp@2001:861:e3d6:8f80:2d2d:a36f:43f3:6f49) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-10-14 15:44:41 +0200 <haskellbridge> <oak> Isn't callCabal2Nix a bit bad solution anyway because it causes import-from-derivation?
2024-10-14 15:44:41 +0200 <haskellbridge> <oak> but basically yes I think
2024-10-14 15:44:42 +0200 <haskellbridge> <oak> It is somewhat confusing many examples and documentation show the usage of the callCabal2Nix although I wouldn't recommend to use it because it causes import-from-derivation. Instead you should have something like git pre-commit check to make sure your generated default.nix file stays up-to-date with the .cabal file. (IFD means Nix has to build a derivation first as part of the evaluation in order to be able to...
2024-10-14 15:44:47 +0200 <haskellbridge> ... completely evaluate your Nix expression. Usually you want to evaluate first and after that start to build.)
2024-10-14 15:44:48 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> what's the proper way to write an AST using the freer monad on containers?
2024-10-14 15:44:48 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> datatypes a la carte uses the free monad and no containers
2024-10-14 15:45:33 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e72cfb260d771c799cc2fd22.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2024-10-14 15:46:30 +0200ash3en(~Thunderbi@146.70.124.222) ash3en
2024-10-14 15:50:51 +0200ash3en(~Thunderbi@146.70.124.222) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-10-14 15:52:53 +0200SlackCoder(~SlackCode@64-94-63-8.ip.weststar.net.ky) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-10-14 15:56:10 +0200alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-320a-9d11-14e2-d135-c40b-29b1.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-10-14 15:57:19 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-000-144-052.176.0.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2024-10-14 17:13:53 +0200mari-estel(~mari-este@user/danza) ()
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2024-10-14 17:34:04 +0200LukeHoersten(~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten) LukeHoersten
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2024-10-14 18:18:46 +0200SlackCoder(~SlackCode@64-94-63-8.ip.weststar.net.ky) SlackCoder
2024-10-14 18:23:16 +0200AlexZenon(~alzenon@178.34.163.62)
2024-10-14 18:23:34 +0200mehlon(~mehlon@user/mehlon) mehlon
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2024-10-14 18:40:45 +0200 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> newbie question: what is the (perhaps obvious but not so for newbies) reason that GHC AST and TH AST are independent of each other?
2024-10-14 18:40:50 +0200LukeHoersten(~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten) LukeHoersten
2024-10-14 18:45:07 +0200 <ghoulguy> I don't know the exact reasons, but I would expect them to be different for at least two reasons. The compiler's AST is likely to track slightly different information and template-haskell should aspire to be useable by more than just GHC
2024-10-14 18:46:17 +0200LukeHoersten(~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-10-14 18:48:04 +0200mreh(~matthew@host86-128-2-51.range86-128.btcentralplus.com) mreh
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2024-10-14 18:53:36 +0200mehlon(~mehlon@user/mehlon) mehlon
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2024-10-14 18:58:34 +0200alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3210-e74e-e0a7-371d-4485-da44.rev.sfr.net) alexherbo2
2024-10-14 19:00:26 +0200 <geekosaur> the compiler AST is much more complex than TH's (and that got even worse with the change to TTG back in 7.x)
2024-10-14 19:01:36 +0200 <geekosaur> and you rarely care about most of that, and don't want to have to fight with how to deal with TTG
2024-10-14 19:02:24 +0200rosco(~rosco@175.136.22.30) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2024-10-14 19:02:36 +0200Square2(~Square@user/square) Square
2024-10-14 19:03:21 +0200 <kaol> How stupid idea would it be to implement a compiler by parsing source code and transforming it to TH AST? I'm not seriously contemplating doing anything like that but it was an idle thought I had while doing something else.
2024-10-14 19:04:18 +0200 <geekosaur> it'd probably need more than the TH AST gives you, for one
2024-10-14 19:04:49 +0200 <geekosaur> but in general that sounds like "writing a compiler" 🙂
2024-10-14 19:04:53 +0200Square(~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-10-14 19:05:19 +0200cheater(~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2024-10-14 19:06:22 +0200morb(~morb@pool-108-41-100-120.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2024-10-14 19:06:25 +0200 <geekosaur> (for one example of additional information: GHC's AST carries around source information. what's the source information for a TH splice?)
2024-10-14 19:06:40 +0200 <geekosaur> (and, perhaps more to the point: how do you get it?)
2024-10-14 19:06:59 +0200 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> I may have code snippets for that, one sec
2024-10-14 19:08:02 +0200 <kaol> Everyone's done a compiler that targets C.
2024-10-14 19:09:30 +0200geekosaurraises a guilty hand
2024-10-14 19:09:58 +0200 <geekosaur> (but Haskell didn't exist back when I was doing that…)
2024-10-14 19:11:03 +0200morb(~morb@pool-108-41-100-120.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-14 19:18:20 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-10-14 19:20:35 +0200alp_(~alp@2001:861:e3d6:8f80:655:8e2f:b4d3:203)
2024-10-14 19:22:15 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-10-14 19:22:21 +0200AlexZenon(~alzenon@178.34.163.62)
2024-10-14 19:22:29 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2024-10-14 19:25:22 +0200 <briandaed> so it was before 90s...
2024-10-14 19:26:05 +0200 <geekosaur> I did most of my parser and compiler/transpiler stuff from 1986-1989, yes
2024-10-14 19:26:19 +0200 <briandaed> respect
2024-10-14 19:26:27 +0200 <geekosaur> sadly most of it is gone with my then employer who shut down in 1996
2024-10-14 19:27:05 +0200 <briandaed> I was beating nettles with a stick at that time
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2024-10-14 19:44:32 +0200hiredman(~hiredman@frontier1.downey.family) hiredman
2024-10-14 19:49:03 +0200st_aldini(~Thunderbi@2605:a601:a07c:af00:627a:78b9:acf4:2bd7) st_aldini
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2024-10-14 19:53:21 +0200 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> Language.Haskell.TH.location
2024-10-14 19:53:21 +0200 <haskellbridge> ... long message truncated: https://kf8nh.com/_heisenbridge/media/kf8nh.com/hvbdpMkvfmGDWucRVSIYIRmN/Cp4UpcGhnc0 (4 lines)
2024-10-14 19:54:03 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-000-144-052.176.0.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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2024-10-14 19:59:06 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) tzh
2024-10-14 20:02:11 +0200 <monochrom> Bluntly, reusing TH's AST saves you only a small and the easiest part of a compiler. https://simon.peytonjones.org/trees-that-grow/ will tell you how many dozens more AST types you would need if not for one cool trick. (TH's AST does not use that trick, so it is of no help.)
2024-10-14 20:02:47 +0200AlexZenon(~alzenon@178.34.163.62)
2024-10-14 20:08:02 +0200ljdarj1(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2024-10-14 20:09:01 +0200 <lxsameer> hey folks, what's the proper way of implementing a sum function with the type `[IO Int] -> IO Int`
2024-10-14 20:09:21 +0200ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-10-14 20:09:32 +0200alp_(~alp@2001:861:e3d6:8f80:db99:b16a:1356:52e1)
2024-10-14 20:09:34 +0200ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2024-10-14 20:10:43 +0200 <monochrom> @type foldM
2024-10-14 20:10:44 +0200 <lambdabot> (Foldable t, Monad m) => (b -> a -> m b) -> b -> t a -> m b
2024-10-14 20:10:49 +0200 <monochrom> That should help.
2024-10-14 20:12:17 +0200ljdarj1(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2024-10-14 20:12:26 +0200 <lxsameer> thanks
2024-10-14 20:15:33 +0200 <Lears> % :t (coerce `asTypeOf` fmap getSum) . foldMap (coerce `asTypeOf` fmap Sum)
2024-10-14 20:15:33 +0200 <yahb2> (coerce `asTypeOf` fmap getSum) . foldMap (coerce `asTypeOf` fmap Sum) ; :: (Coercible (f (Sum b)) (f b), Functor f, Foldable t, ; Monoid (f (Sum b))) => ; t (f b) -> f b
2024-10-14 20:15:40 +0200son0p(~ff@186.119.83.52) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-14 20:15:52 +0200 <Lears> lxsameer: ^
2024-10-14 20:16:23 +0200AlexZenon(~alzenon@178.34.163.62) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2024-10-14 20:25:32 +0200SlackCoder(~SlackCode@64-94-63-8.ip.weststar.net.ky) SlackCoder
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2024-10-14 20:30:31 +0200 <lxsameer> Lears: thank you
2024-10-14 20:34:07 +0200cross(~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-10-14 20:34:15 +0200vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal
2024-10-14 20:41:15 +0200KicksonButt(~quassel@187.21.174.221) (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2024-10-14 20:43:31 +0200AlexZenon(~alzenon@178.34.163.62)
2024-10-14 20:48:20 +0200 <yin> is base decoupled from ghc already?
2024-10-14 20:48:43 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Tuplanolla
2024-10-14 20:51:36 +0200 <monochrom> Not yet.
2024-10-14 20:53:26 +0200Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2024-10-14 21:00:40 +0200caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
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2024-10-14 21:30:10 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@84.19.220.82)
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2024-10-14 21:35:45 +0200 <yin> i am having trouble building an old project due to version constraints on setup.Cabal but nowhere in my project is there an indication of those constraints
2024-10-14 21:37:06 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> how'd you know there's contraints ?
2024-10-14 21:37:21 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> (and what's setup.Cabal ?)
2024-10-14 21:43:28 +0200LukeHoersten(~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten) LukeHoersten
2024-10-14 21:49:58 +0200 <monochrom> We know of Setup.hs/lhs and I know of *.cabal, but the *.cabal is unlikely to be actually called setup.cabal
2024-10-14 21:50:22 +0200 <monochrom> s/and I know of/and we know of/ # even
2024-10-14 21:51:26 +0200 <sprout> using the royal plural for oneselves makes for delightful conversations
2024-10-14 21:52:17 +0200 <monochrom> But it was not the royal plural!
2024-10-14 21:52:41 +0200 <sprout> regardless, you're my monarch now
2024-10-14 21:52:52 +0200 <monochrom> "Don't mind if I do" ? >:)
2024-10-14 21:53:22 +0200 <yin> https://paste.jrvieira.com/1728935598635
2024-10-14 21:54:00 +0200 <yin> this is my .cabal file: https://paste.jrvieira.com/1728935627215
2024-10-14 21:55:32 +0200 <mauke> don't those have to start with a 'cabal-version' line nowadays?
2024-10-14 21:55:52 +0200 <int-e> no cabal-version field, is that where `Cabal>=1.0 && <1.25` comes from?
2024-10-14 21:56:14 +0200 <yin> ah. i removed it in order to use a newer cabal version :p
2024-10-14 21:56:27 +0200 <yin> ty
2024-10-14 21:57:23 +0200 <monochrom> "cabal-version: 2.4" is what I use and it has been uneventful with new cabal-install versions for years.
2024-10-14 21:57:23 +0200 <int-e> `cabal check` would probably point that out
2024-10-14 21:57:47 +0200 <mauke> https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/stable/cabal-package-description-file.html#pkg-field-cabal-version
2024-10-14 21:57:52 +0200 <int-e> Hmm, what does this mean? "constraint from minimum version of Cabal used by Setup.hs requires >=3.8"
2024-10-14 21:58:09 +0200 <int-e> (still looking at yin's cabal-install output)
2024-10-14 22:00:45 +0200 <monochrom> probably just the opposite way of stating the same dilemma
2024-10-14 22:00:51 +0200 <int-e> (So the question is, where would cabal-install take that constraint from? Some cabal.project* file maybe?)
2024-10-14 22:01:48 +0200 <yin> i have no Setup.hs file anywhere in my project (iiuc it can trigger cabal version constraints)
2024-10-14 22:02:48 +0200 <yin> my cabal.project only reads "packages: ./sete.cabal"
2024-10-14 22:03:58 +0200 <yin> everything is fine now, ty
2024-10-14 22:04:20 +0200 <yin> i don't like that cabal-version field at all
2024-10-14 22:09:31 +0200CrunchyFlakes(~CrunchyFl@ip1f13e94e.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2024-10-14 22:09:36 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> sounds like you figured it out, the #hackage channel will know more
2024-10-14 22:10:45 +0200Everything(~Everythin@static.208.206.21.65.clients.your-server.de) ()
2024-10-14 22:14:58 +0200lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2024-10-14 22:19:55 +0200LukeHoersten(~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2024-10-14 22:26:11 +0200son0p(~ff@190.69.120.153) son0p