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| 2024-10-14 01:11:01 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
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| 2024-10-14 02:17:07 +0200 | tremon | (~tremon@83.80.159.219) (Quit: getting boxed in) |
| 2024-10-14 02:19:17 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d50-99-47-73.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod |
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| 2024-10-14 02:21:36 +0200 | <Square> | How do you deal with multimodule project (cabal.project) when using nix? Separate callCabal2Nix for each module? |
| 2024-10-14 02:31:08 +0200 | tabemann | (~tabemann@2600:1700:7990:24e0:14d2:2457:bd7:5741) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-10-14 02:32:10 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2024-10-14 02:32:40 +0200 | Guest66 | (~Guest66@2601:152:4a80:2300:c948:b43e:8f75:aa7b) |
| 2024-10-14 02:33:11 +0200 | <jackdk> | The two approaches I use are: "have nix provide GHC+cabal, let cabal do packages", or "use haskell.nix". This avoids lots of fiddly package set overlay splicing, and regenerating the shell when a dependency changes. |
| 2024-10-14 02:34:09 +0200 | <Inst> | incoherence can be handled at the compilation stage, i.e, if you're trying to use an instance for which there is no imported typeclass, you throw an error |
| 2024-10-14 02:34:21 +0200 | tabemann | (~tabemann@2600:1700:7990:24e0:14d2:2457:bd7:5741) |
| 2024-10-14 02:35:23 +0200 | <geekosaur> | that's not incoherence |
| 2024-10-14 02:35:48 +0200 | <geekosaur> | incoherence is "two modules use different instances for the same type" |
| 2024-10-14 02:35:56 +0200 | <Inst> | is it reasonable to wish to control the exporting of instances / typeclasses? |
| 2024-10-14 02:37:06 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-10-14 02:37:19 +0200 | <geekosaur> | not when it leads to incoherence, no |
| 2024-10-14 02:37:38 +0200 | <geekosaur> | and the only way to prevent incoherence is to force instances to be global |
| 2024-10-14 02:37:47 +0200 | <jackdk> | IMHO no. That way lies madness, like the producer and consumer of a `Ord k => Map k v` disagreeing on which `Ord` to use for `k`. And then you just can't find entries which you are 100% certain that you put into your map. |
| 2024-10-14 02:38:24 +0200 | <geekosaur> | well, for that one it's actually something of a hack. IMO SML/NJ does it the right way |
| 2024-10-14 02:39:31 +0200 | <geekosaur> | (the Ord instance equivalent is owned by the Map, not by what Ord instance is in scope at use sites) |
| 2024-10-14 02:40:49 +0200 | <geekosaur> | *not determined by |
| 2024-10-14 02:45:03 +0200 | Guest66 | (~Guest66@2601:152:4a80:2300:c948:b43e:8f75:aa7b) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2024-10-14 02:47:58 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2024-10-14 02:48:45 +0200 | <Square> | jackdk, thanks |
| 2024-10-14 02:52:52 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-10-14 02:55:29 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
| 2024-10-14 02:58:15 +0200 | <monochrom> | Perhaps the misguided want of localized unexported instances comes from mistaking type classes for OO interfaces. |
| 2024-10-14 03:03:15 +0200 | <probie> | geekosaur: without the one true Ord instance for a type, how do you efficiently union two maps? SML/NJ sidesteps this because two maps instantiated with different ORD_KEYs will be different types. |
| 2024-10-14 03:03:41 +0200 | <geekosaur> | isn't that kinda the point, though? |
| 2024-10-14 03:03:47 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2024-10-14 03:04:16 +0200 | <monochrom> | You can union two maps created from the same instantiated module. |
| 2024-10-14 03:04:48 +0200 | <monochrom> | Recall that an instantiated module gives you a suite of map functions, not a map. |
| 2024-10-14 03:04:57 +0200 | <geekosaur> | right |
| 2024-10-14 03:05:25 +0200 | <monochrom> | So use the same suite to create two maps and use the same suite to union the two maps. |
| 2024-10-14 03:05:38 +0200 | <probie> | But how do you do that in Haskell? |
| 2024-10-14 03:06:05 +0200 | <monochrom> | Haskell doesn't have SML's parameterized module system. OK OK I will emulate it. |
| 2024-10-14 03:06:09 +0200 | <geekosaur> | that was my point: you don't. we use a typeclass hack instead |
| 2024-10-14 03:06:40 +0200 | <geekosaur> | and I don't think Backpack can quite pull off emulating this, for all its pretensions toward providing MLish "functors" |
| 2024-10-14 03:07:13 +0200 | <monochrom> | I will also need existential type. |
| 2024-10-14 03:08:14 +0200 | zmt00 | (~zmt00@user/zmt00) zmt00 |
| 2024-10-14 03:08:48 +0200 | <monochrom> | data M a = forall t. M{empty :: t, insert :: a -> t -> t, union :: t -> t -> a, etc etc} |
| 2024-10-14 03:10:02 +0200 | <monochrom> | instantiate :: (a -> a -> Ordering) -> M a; instantiate cmp = M{empty = ... ; insert = ... use cmp ..., union = ... use cmp ..., etc} |
| 2024-10-14 03:10:28 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-10-14 03:11:18 +0200 | <geekosaur> | Inst did earlier hint that he thought we were trying to find ways to emulate OOP in Haskell. (No, we aren't. OOP is something else. If I want OOP, I'll use an OO language, not Haskell; I have and use multiple tools.) |
| 2024-10-14 03:11:53 +0200 | <probie> | I think we're probably all in agreement about every fact here. I just misinterpreted intent and mistook the comment as "Haskell should do what SML/NJ" does, not "SML/NJ does this in a nice a way, unlike Haskell" |
| 2024-10-14 03:12:10 +0200 | tonyday567 | (~tonyday56@125-63-10-162.ip4.superloop.au) |
| 2024-10-14 03:12:15 +0200 | <geekosaur> | right, I meant the latter |
| 2024-10-14 03:12:34 +0200 | <monochrom> | A user will have to do everything under the same instantiate call. user = let m{empty, insert, union} = instantiate myCompare in union (insert 2 (insert 3 empty)) (insert 1 (insert 2 empty))) |
| 2024-10-14 03:13:07 +0200 | <probie> | s/" does/does"/ |
| 2024-10-14 03:13:32 +0200 | <monochrom> | Eh, I think Haskell has a nice way and SML has a nice way. |
| 2024-10-14 03:13:56 +0200 | <geekosaur> | (I like SML/NJ's approach, but not so much that I'm abandoning Haskell for it…) |
| 2024-10-14 03:14:47 +0200 | <c_wraith> | And if you *really* need bad hacks, just remember there's always the reflection package! |
| 2024-10-14 03:14:58 +0200 | <monochrom> | :( :) |
| 2024-10-14 03:14:58 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@rdng-25-b2-v4wan-169990-cust1344.vm39.cable.virginm.net) raehik |
| 2024-10-14 03:15:03 +0200 | <probie> | Haskell's way means I can't safely use a `Double` as a key in a `Map` without needing to wrap it in a newtype |
| 2024-10-14 03:15:07 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I did for a moment wonder if that could be abused to do this… |
| 2024-10-14 03:15:21 +0200 | <monochrom> | Yes it totally can. |
| 2024-10-14 03:15:57 +0200 | <monochrom> | I think it is the whole point. When some abuses have just causes and don't count as abuses. |
| 2024-10-14 03:17:22 +0200 | alexherbo2 | (~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3108-bfa0-f1d8-4d0f-e5fc-d7b0.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-10-14 03:17:35 +0200 | <monochrom> | But here is a clean hack someone and I thought up: https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2017-May/127147.html |
| 2024-10-14 03:18:04 +0200 | <dolio> | What part can't backpack do? Not that it's nice to do this. |
| 2024-10-14 03:18:33 +0200 | alexherbo2 | (~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3108-bfa0-ddfb-d52c-f0fd-2cc2.rev.sfr.net) alexherbo2 |
| 2024-10-14 03:18:39 +0200 | <geekosaur> | local open, I think, so you can parameteerize different maps differently? |
| 2024-10-14 03:18:46 +0200 | <geekosaur> | within the same module |
| 2024-10-14 03:19:37 +0200 | <dolio> | Oh. Well, you can parameterize the map functor multiple ways, I think. But it's not going to happen very locally. |
| 2024-10-14 03:20:13 +0200 | <dolio> | Like, not within a definition in a module, certainly. |
| 2024-10-14 03:20:48 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I thought that was what `open` was for? |
| 2024-10-14 03:21:33 +0200 | <dolio> | Only like, 'this module uses multiple map implementations, which happen to be two different instantiations of the same functor.' |
| 2024-10-14 03:21:42 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2024-10-14 03:22:02 +0200 | tonyday567 | (~tonyday56@125-63-10-162.ip4.superloop.au) (Changing host) |
| 2024-10-14 03:22:02 +0200 | tonyday567 | (~tonyday56@user/tonyday567) tonyday567 |
| 2024-10-14 03:22:07 +0200 | alexherbo2 | (~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3108-bfa0-ddfb-d52c-f0fd-2cc2.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-10-14 03:22:34 +0200 | <monochrom> | Haskell doesn't have local open, not even for unparametrized 0th-order modules. Let's not talk about local open. |
| 2024-10-14 03:23:03 +0200 | <dolio> | Yeah. |
| 2024-10-14 03:23:40 +0200 | <monochrom> | So with backpack you have to split code into more files than SML requires, but you can still import multiple instantiations into the same user file. |
| 2024-10-14 03:24:01 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-10-14 03:24:06 +0200 | <geekosaur> | that was my point. backpack claims to add parameterized modules, but it doesn't and can't provide this so it's not anywhere near as useful as it should be |
| 2024-10-14 03:24:27 +0200 | <monochrom> | If you instantiate Map two ways, you write two files, one per instantiation. In a third file---the user file---you import both. |
| 2024-10-14 03:24:33 +0200 | <dolio> | I don't understand what you mean by "it doesn't." |
| 2024-10-14 03:24:52 +0200 | <dolio> | It does, but you still can't only import a module in a where clause or something. |
| 2024-10-14 03:25:07 +0200 | <geekosaur> | exactly |
| 2024-10-14 03:25:24 +0200 | <geekosaur> | let's put it this way: they're not first class if you cant' do that |
| 2024-10-14 03:25:52 +0200 | <dolio> | But they are parameterized. |
| 2024-10-14 03:26:12 +0200 | <monochrom> | I don't know, here is what I think, maybe too extreme: Nevermind paramtrizing. Would this make sense: "Haskell claims to have modules, but there is no open so it doesn't count". |
| 2024-10-14 03:27:05 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I didn't say either of those. I said it does not emulate ML functors. The MLish concept of functor includes first-class-ness, including local instantiation. |
| 2024-10-14 03:27:31 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I specifically did not limit it to parameterization |
| 2024-10-14 03:28:39 +0200 | <geekosaur> | (I will grant that Backpack was always on the losing side of that one: it requires an actual language change, it can't be simulated the way simply parameterizing modules sort-of can be) |
| 2024-10-14 03:35:48 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2024-10-14 03:38:43 +0200 | identity | (~identity@user/ZharMeny) (Quit: ERC 5.6.0.30.1 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 30.0.91)) |
| 2024-10-14 03:46:42 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
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| 2024-10-14 04:07:49 +0200 | td_ | (~td@83.135.9.1) td_ |
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| 2024-10-14 04:24:21 +0200 | Smiles | (uid551636@id-551636.lymington.irccloud.com) Smiles |
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| 2024-10-14 04:28:14 +0200 | Sciencentistguy3 | (~sciencent@hacksoc/ordinary-member) sciencentistguy |
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| 2024-10-14 04:30:21 +0200 | Sciencentistguy3 | Sciencentistguy |
| 2024-10-14 04:35:17 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
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| 2024-10-14 05:31:11 +0200 | aforemny | (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cdf:9f00:9304:f095:b881:d5be) aforemny |
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| 2024-10-14 05:38:30 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2024-10-14 05:42:08 +0200 | fun-safe-math | (~fun-safe-@24.21.106.247) fun-safe-math |
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| 2024-10-14 05:52:06 +0200 | Lord_of_Life_ | Lord_of_Life |
| 2024-10-14 05:54:15 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
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| 2024-10-14 06:08:27 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@rdng-25-b2-v4wan-169990-cust1344.vm39.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2024-10-14 06:10:06 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2024-10-14 06:10:36 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
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| 2024-10-14 06:28:25 +0200 | ZLima12 | (~zlima12@user/meow/ZLima12) () |
| 2024-10-14 06:30:08 +0200 | ZLima12 | (~zlima12@user/meow/ZLima12) ZLima12 |
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| 2024-10-14 06:51:03 +0200 | ZLima12 | (~zlima12@user/meow/ZLima12) () |
| 2024-10-14 06:52:34 +0200 | oneeyedalien | (~oneeyedal@user/oneeyedalien) oneeyedalien |
| 2024-10-14 06:52:36 +0200 | ZLima12 | (~zlima12@user/meow/ZLima12) ZLima12 |
| 2024-10-14 06:53:02 +0200 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) Unicorn_Princess |
| 2024-10-14 06:57:57 +0200 | oneeyedalien | (~oneeyedal@user/oneeyedalien) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2024-10-14 06:59:21 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2024-10-14 07:03:26 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2024-10-14 07:03:43 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2024-10-14 07:04:22 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2024-10-14 07:09:09 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2024-10-14 07:09:10 +0200 | rvalue | (~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-10-14 07:10:09 +0200 | ZLima12 | (~zlima12@user/meow/ZLima12) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-10-14 07:17:53 +0200 | Smiles | (uid551636@id-551636.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2024-10-14 07:18:19 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) |
| 2024-10-14 07:19:30 +0200 | ZLima12 | (~zlima12@user/meow/ZLima12) ZLima12 |
| 2024-10-14 07:20:06 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2024-10-14 07:20:53 +0200 | rvalue | (~rvalue@user/rvalue) rvalue |
| 2024-10-14 07:21:50 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@rdng-25-b2-v4wan-169990-cust1344.vm39.cable.virginm.net) raehik |
| 2024-10-14 07:28:11 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@rdng-25-b2-v4wan-169990-cust1344.vm39.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2024-10-14 07:28:35 +0200 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.203) |
| 2024-10-14 07:29:00 +0200 | rosco | (~rosco@175.136.22.30) rosco |
| 2024-10-14 07:29:32 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2024-10-14 07:30:05 +0200 | Sgeo_ | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-10-14 07:35:53 +0200 | arahael | (~arahael@user/arahael) arahael |
| 2024-10-14 07:39:25 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2024-10-14 07:40:30 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2024-10-14 07:45:21 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2024-10-14 07:48:28 +0200 | euphores | (~SASL_euph@user/euphores) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2024-10-14 07:56:16 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2024-10-14 07:56:34 +0200 | euphores | (~SASL_euph@user/euphores) euphores |
| 2024-10-14 08:01:29 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-10-14 08:02:22 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2024-10-14 08:12:03 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2024-10-14 08:16:05 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a05:5800:2ca:cd00:ca4b:d6ff:fec1:99da) CiaoSen |
| 2024-10-14 08:17:15 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |