2025/12/15

2025-12-15 00:01:40 +0100humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect
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2025-12-15 00:21:59 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-12-15 00:53:34 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-12-15 01:39:43 +0100CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-12-15 01:43:11 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-12-15 01:48:37 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-12-15 01:52:29 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@71.84.33.135) peterbecich
2025-12-15 01:56:40 +0100tremon(~tremon@83.80.159.219) (Quit: getting boxed in)
2025-12-15 01:58:57 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-12-15 03:45:06 +0100myxos(~myxos@2001:579:8380:f20:5802:a6ab:5db9:e791) myxokephale
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2025-12-15 04:55:24 +0100jmcantrell_(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-12-15 04:57:22 +0100jmcantrell_(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-12-15 05:05:59 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-12-15 05:16:41 +0100AlexNoo_(~AlexNoo@178.34.161.6)
2025-12-15 05:18:39 +0100AlexZenon(~alzenon@94.233.240.243) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2025-12-15 05:21:46 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-12-15 05:22:30 +0100AlexZenon(~alzenon@178.34.161.6)
2025-12-15 05:26:24 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-12-15 05:28:22 +0100spew(~spew@user/spew) (Quit: WeeChat 4.7.2)
2025-12-15 05:29:43 +0100jmcantrell_jmcantrell
2025-12-15 05:29:46 +0100 <weary-traveler> it should be possible to do "stack install $pkg" to build a package binary from hackage, correct?
2025-12-15 05:30:20 +0100trickard_(~trickard@cpe-81-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-12-15 05:30:21 +0100 <weary-traveler> if so, how do i find out the location of the built artifacts?
2025-12-15 05:30:33 +0100trickard_(~trickard@cpe-81-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-12-15 05:35:36 +0100EvanR(~EvanR@user/evanr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-12-15 05:35:56 +0100EvanR(~EvanR@user/evanr) EvanR
2025-12-15 05:37:32 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-12-15 05:38:10 +0100 <geekosaur> default is ~/.local/bin
2025-12-15 05:39:57 +0100 <geekosaur> https://docs.haskellstack.org/en/stable/configure/yaml/non-project/#local-bin-path
2025-12-15 05:41:32 +0100humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect
2025-12-15 05:42:07 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-12-15 05:47:43 +0100 <weary-traveler> yeah, that's what i thought. odd. i don't see it there.
2025-12-15 05:47:56 +0100 <weary-traveler> package in question is citeproc
2025-12-15 05:51:09 +0100 <geekosaur> "Unlike pandoc-citeproc, this library does not provide an executable. It will be used in pandoc itself to provide integrated citation support and bibliography format conversion (so the pandoc-citeproc filter will no longer be necessary)."
2025-12-15 05:51:58 +0100 <geekosaur> hm, although the cabal file does indeed list a citeproc executable
2025-12-15 05:52:30 +0100 <geekosaur> oh, I see. you need to enable the "executable" flag to get it
2025-12-15 05:52:48 +0100gorignak(~gorignak@user/gorignak) (Quit: quit)
2025-12-15 05:53:23 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-12-15 05:54:06 +0100 <geekosaur> stack install --flag citeproc:executable citeproc
2025-12-15 05:55:53 +0100 <weary-traveler> ah it only did the lib by default
2025-12-15 05:56:07 +0100trickard_trickard
2025-12-15 05:58:07 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-12-15 05:59:47 +0100 <weary-traveler> geekosaur: thanks!
2025-12-15 06:09:08 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-12-15 06:17:47 +0100Googulator(~Googulato@87-97-86-146.pool.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-12-15 06:18:06 +0100Googulator(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-01cb-3c18-a4bd-1bda-7c8b.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-12-15 06:22:58 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-12-15 06:30:36 +0100jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Quit: WeeChat 4.8.1)
2025-12-15 06:32:25 +0100Googulator(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-01cb-3c18-a4bd-1bda-7c8b.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
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2025-12-15 06:34:27 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@71.84.33.135) peterbecich
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2025-12-15 06:56:48 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-12-15 07:53:18 +0100isovector1(~isovector@172.103.213.174.cable.tpia.cipherkey.com)
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2025-12-15 08:06:07 +0100CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen
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2025-12-15 08:12:16 +0100humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect
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2025-12-15 09:00:54 +0100lucabtz(~lucabtz@user/lucabtz) lucabtz
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2025-12-15 09:27:07 +0100tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:6cd5:9506:337d:4c75)
2025-12-15 09:45:41 +0100Googulator22Googulator
2025-12-15 09:46:27 +0100Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-12-15 09:58:57 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2025-12-15 09:59:09 +0100acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7171911ece553fa3dd3d975.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2025-12-15 10:06:42 +0100ft(~ft@p4fc2ab42.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving)
2025-12-15 10:09:44 +0100kuribas(~user@2a02-1810-2825-6000-7d9c-a0f7-a55d-27ae.ip6.access.telenet.be) kuribas
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2025-12-15 10:38:02 +0100wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2025-12-15 12:18:40 +0100Googulator95(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-01cb-3c18-a4bd-1bda-7c8b.pool6.digikabel.hu)
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2025-12-15 12:43:49 +0100ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-12-15 12:45:35 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2025-12-15 12:50:25 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-12-15 12:58:01 +0100 <gentauro> I'm trying to build https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplexmq (with) stack (adding stack.yaml after git clone) but I get this error (not helpfull at all): https://paste.tomsmeding.com/0zfYeUxQ Any suggestions?
2025-12-15 13:01:21 +0100humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect
2025-12-15 13:01:50 +0100yin(~zero@user/zero) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-12-15 13:02:04 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2025-12-15 13:02:04 +0100euphores(~SASL_euph@user/euphores) euphores
2025-12-15 13:02:05 +0100Guest5078(~zero@a89-153-191-69.cpe.netcabo.pt)
2025-12-15 13:03:46 +0100fp(~Thunderbi@2001:708:150:10::7e06) fp
2025-12-15 13:05:48 +0100Googulator41(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-01cb-3c18-a4bd-1bda-7c8b.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-12-15 13:05:51 +0100Googulator95(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-01cb-3c18-a4bd-1bda-7c8b.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
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2025-12-15 13:07:14 +0100somemathguy(~somemathg@user/somemathguy) somemathguy
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2025-12-15 13:18:20 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2025-12-15 13:19:49 +0100CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen
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2025-12-15 13:24:13 +0100Guest3287(~zero@a89-153-191-69.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Changing host)
2025-12-15 13:24:13 +0100Guest3287(~zero@user/zero) zero
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2025-12-15 13:24:54 +0100yin(~zero@user/zero) zero
2025-12-15 13:27:10 +0100CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2025-12-15 13:33:13 +0100AlexNoo_AlexNoo
2025-12-15 13:33:30 +0100chromoblob(~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0
2025-12-15 13:35:44 +0100Googulator99(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-01cb-3c18-a4bd-1bda-7c8b.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-12-15 13:35:54 +0100Googulator41(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-01cb-3c18-a4bd-1bda-7c8b.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-12-15 13:36:15 +0100chromoblob(~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-12-15 13:36:40 +0100chromoblob(~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0
2025-12-15 13:39:52 +0100CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen
2025-12-15 13:40:08 +0100tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:6cd5:9506:337d:4c75) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-12-15 13:42:26 +0100humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-12-15 13:42:31 +0100vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal
2025-12-15 13:46:38 +0100humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net)
2025-12-15 13:55:16 +0100bggd__(~bgg@2a01:e0a:fd5:f510:6bc5:c845:f799:c476)
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2025-12-15 13:59:32 +0100Square(~Square4@user/square) Square
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2025-12-15 14:05:48 +0100Googulator99(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-01cb-3c18-a4bd-1bda-7c8b.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-12-15 14:06:06 +0100Googulator16Googulator
2025-12-15 14:06:58 +0100comerijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
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2025-12-15 15:21:26 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah
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2025-12-15 16:00:34 +0100isovector1(~isovector@172.103.213.174.cable.tpia.cipherkey.com)
2025-12-15 16:00:58 +0100myxos(~myxos@2001:579:8380:f20:fbd3:ef8a:e888:18ad) myxokephale
2025-12-15 16:03:48 +0100myxokephale(~myxos@2001:579:8380:f20:595:39f1:fe2a:eca3) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-12-15 16:14:51 +0100ouilemur(~jgmerritt@user/ouilemur) (Quit: WeeChat 4.8.1)
2025-12-15 16:16:43 +0100pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2025-12-15 16:19:10 +0100bggd__bggd
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2025-12-15 16:19:25 +0100bggd(~bgg@user/bggd) bggd
2025-12-15 16:24:16 +0100isovector1(~isovector@172.103.213.174.cable.tpia.cipherkey.com) ()
2025-12-15 16:24:37 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-12-15 16:27:40 +0100tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:6cd5:9506:337d:4c75) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-12-15 16:28:25 +0100spew(~spew@user/spew) spew
2025-12-15 16:32:19 +0100rekahsoft(~rekahsoft@70.51.99.245) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-12-15 16:34:36 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2025-12-15 16:35:46 +0100Googulator15(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-01cb-3c18-a4bd-1bda-7c8b.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-12-15 16:36:07 +0100Googulator15(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-01cb-3c18-a4bd-1bda-7c8b.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-12-15 16:38:16 +0100acarrico(~acarrico@pppoe-209-99-221-186.greenmountainaccess.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-12-15 16:48:55 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-12-15 16:49:20 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2025-12-15 17:05:00 +0100tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:6cd5:9506:337d:4c75)
2025-12-15 17:10:31 +0100 <tomsmeding> gentauro: nice, very helpful error. Could it be that it ran out of memory and was killed by the OOM killer?
2025-12-15 17:22:55 +0100kuribas(~user@2a02-1810-2825-6000-7d9c-a0f7-a55d-27ae.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-12-15 17:30:42 +0100lucabtz(~lucabtz@user/lucabtz) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2025-12-15 17:38:01 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2025-12-15 17:42:05 +0100acarrico(~acarrico@pppoe-209-99-221-186.greenmountainaccess.net)
2025-12-15 17:45:43 +0100ouilemur(~jgmerritt@user/ouilemur) ouilemur
2025-12-15 17:56:10 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-12-15 17:58:34 +0100jmcantrell_(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-12-15 18:07:34 +0100 <gentauro> tomsmeding: I doubt it. I have like +30 GB of free mem when it shows that. And since it's like 154 / 155. It takes 3 min to reproduce :-\
2025-12-15 18:08:23 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2025-12-15 18:08:43 +0100acarrico(~acarrico@pppoe-209-99-221-186.greenmountainaccess.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-12-15 18:17:31 +0100Googulator15(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-01cb-3c18-a4bd-1bda-7c8b.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-12-15 18:17:52 +0100Googulator15(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-01cb-3c18-a4bd-1bda-7c8b.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-12-15 18:18:32 +0100somemathguy(~somemathg@user/somemathguy) somemathguy
2025-12-15 18:18:55 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-12-15 18:19:13 +0100sam113101(~sam@modemcable200.189-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-12-15 18:19:28 +0100sam113101(~sam@modemcable200.189-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) sam113101
2025-12-15 18:19:31 +0100tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) tzh
2025-12-15 18:22:05 +0100trickard(~trickard@cpe-81-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-12-15 18:22:19 +0100trickard_(~trickard@cpe-81-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-12-15 18:29:07 +0100EvanR(~EvanR@user/evanr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-12-15 18:29:26 +0100EvanR(~EvanR@user/evanr) EvanR
2025-12-15 18:31:05 +0100tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:6cd5:9506:337d:4c75) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-12-15 18:33:55 +0100ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2025-12-15 18:51:40 +0100Googulator15(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-01cb-3c18-a4bd-1bda-7c8b.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
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2025-12-15 18:54:30 +0100latticepolytope(~user@user/isekaijin) (Quit: brb)
2025-12-15 18:58:17 +0100Square2(~Square@user/square) Square
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2025-12-15 19:05:34 +0100latticepolytope(~user@2800:200:e840:356e:90cc:fccb:4c3b:fc80)
2025-12-15 19:05:59 +0100latticepolytope(~user@2800:200:e840:356e:90cc:fccb:4c3b:fc80) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-12-15 19:13:37 +0100latticepolytope(~user@user/isekaijin) isekaijin
2025-12-15 19:19:42 +0100tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:dc21:3bf3:aa50:6091)
2025-12-15 19:43:57 +0100ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2025-12-15 19:55:58 +0100ft(~ft@p4fc2ab42.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) ft
2025-12-15 20:04:21 +0100latticepolytope(~user@user/isekaijin) (Quit: ERC 5.6.0.30.1 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 30.2))
2025-12-15 20:15:43 +0100Googulator37(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-01cb-3c18-a4bd-1bda-7c8b.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-12-15 20:16:56 +0100humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-12-15 20:18:05 +0100milan2(~milan@88.212.61.169)
2025-12-15 20:19:31 +0100Googulator15(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-01cb-3c18-a4bd-1bda-7c8b.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-12-15 20:20:29 +0100 <milan2> Hello is there something like >>= but for different types? I have "Either" and I want to chain it with "Maybe" so Left goes to Nothing and Right to Just?
2025-12-15 20:23:17 +0100 <gentauro> milan2: I don't know about operators, but, Hoogle is your friend ;) `https://hoogle.haskell.org/?hoogle=Either%20a%20b%20-%3E%20Maybe%20a`
2025-12-15 20:24:05 +0100 <int-e> :t listToMaybe . rights . pure
2025-12-15 20:24:06 +0100 <lambdabot> Either a1 a2 -> Maybe a2
2025-12-15 20:24:29 +0100 <int-e> (very intuitive ;-) )
2025-12-15 20:25:23 +0100califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-12-15 20:25:24 +0100target_i(~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) target_i
2025-12-15 20:25:27 +0100 <gentauro> int-e: and you only rely on `base`. That's nice :)
2025-12-15 20:25:44 +0100 <gentauro> :t rights
2025-12-15 20:25:45 +0100 <lambdabot> [Either a b] -> [b]
2025-12-15 20:26:26 +0100 <milan2> gentauro: TY, I didn't know I can search by type signature. Thank you int-e :)
2025-12-15 20:27:00 +0100 <int-e> :t \e -> do Right a <- pure e; pure a
2025-12-15 20:27:01 +0100 <lambdabot> MonadFail m => Either a b -> m b
2025-12-15 20:27:18 +0100califax(~califax@user/califx) califx
2025-12-15 20:27:18 +0100 <gentauro> milan2: This is actually the right signature to search for -> https://hoogle.haskell.org/?hoogle=Either%20a%20b%20-%3E%20Maybe%20b `Either a b -> Maybe b`
2025-12-15 20:28:11 +0100 <gentauro> https://hackage-content.haskell.org/package/ghc-9.12.2/docs/src/GHC.Data.Maybe.html#rightToMaybe
2025-12-15 20:28:25 +0100 <milan2> Yeah I am looking at that right now :)
2025-12-15 20:29:15 +0100aku(aku@65.108.245.241) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2025-12-15 20:30:33 +0100aku(aku@65.108.245.241) eagleflo
2025-12-15 20:32:15 +0100Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life
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2025-12-15 20:43:37 +0100ouilemur(~jgmerritt@user/ouilemur) ouilemur
2025-12-15 20:43:44 +0100humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect
2025-12-15 20:53:35 +0100 <chromoblob> why not `return`
2025-12-15 20:54:20 +0100 <monochrom> We like the name "pure" more. :)
2025-12-15 20:54:43 +0100 <int-e> it only took a decade to retrain myself to actually use `pure`.
2025-12-15 20:55:16 +0100 <monochrom> I just installed a new device driver in my head. :)
2025-12-15 20:55:37 +0100 <int-e> chromoblob: `pure` is shorter and doesn't have the misleading imperative programming connotations that `return` has.
2025-12-15 20:55:49 +0100 <monochrom> Yeah I like shorter too. :)
2025-12-15 20:56:27 +0100 <int-e> > (do return 1; return 2) :: Maybe Int
2025-12-15 20:56:28 +0100 <monochrom> When I teach a language course, my excuse for saying "term" for "expression" is: "term" is shorter. :)
2025-12-15 20:56:28 +0100 <lambdabot> Just 2
2025-12-15 20:56:51 +0100 <int-e> monochrom: I'm all for short term rewards as well.
2025-12-15 20:57:20 +0100Googulator37(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-01cb-3c18-a4bd-1bda-7c8b.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-12-15 20:57:25 +0100 <monochrom> haha
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2025-12-15 21:03:16 +0100Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-152-225-194.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Tuplanolla
2025-12-15 21:03:35 +0100 <chromoblob> `return` is historic
2025-12-15 21:04:06 +0100 <monochrom> `pure` is modern :)
2025-12-15 21:04:40 +0100 <chromoblob> also, `return` signifies that you're using Monad
2025-12-15 21:05:56 +0100 <monochrom> IMO unimportant.
2025-12-15 21:08:37 +0100lockna(~obr@089144192027.atnat0001.highway.a1.net) lockna
2025-12-15 21:10:11 +0100 <monochrom> Eq has (==), Ord is a subclass, and we don't propose to add (===) to Ord to be a synonym of (==) such that when we compare two integers we use (===) to "signify that I'm using Ord".
2025-12-15 21:10:38 +0100 <monochrom> If `return` is historic, then it means that it was a historical mistake.
2025-12-15 21:11:23 +0100 <monochrom> Or more moderately, s/mistake/oversight/
2025-12-15 21:13:11 +0100 <c_wraith> oversight would be accurate, I think. No one had yet realized that Applicative was a useful middle ground.
2025-12-15 21:13:27 +0100 <int-e> Or maybe in 1998 Haskell was less concerned with applications.
2025-12-15 21:14:07 +0100 <int-e> (remember when it was called "Idiom" for a while... that would've been awful.)
2025-12-15 21:14:43 +0100 <monochrom> Monad was called "triple" at the beginning, too. :)
2025-12-15 21:15:24 +0100 <Rembane> That's a way less scary word! :D
2025-12-15 21:15:26 +0100 <c_wraith> I don't think Applicative was really recognized as useful (in two directions - rich enough to have practical applications, simple enough that it can have useful instances that can't be monads) until the development of applicative parsers
2025-12-15 21:15:38 +0100 <int-e> Rembane: but it's way too generic
2025-12-15 21:15:53 +0100pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) siracusa
2025-12-15 21:15:59 +0100 <int-e> Rembane: It's like calling a company Meta because it's about something. ;-)
2025-12-15 21:16:47 +0100 <monochrom> Hey wouldn't it be nice! class Tuploid f where pure :: a -> f a; (<*>) :: f a -> f b -> f (a,b); class Tuploid f => Triploid f where (>>=) :: ...
2025-12-15 21:16:52 +0100gf3(~gf3@user/gf3) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-12-15 21:17:04 +0100 <Rembane> int-e: Indeed, it doesn't mean anything. :)
2025-12-15 21:17:05 +0100 <int-e> (FWIW I call the underlying failed product Facebook 3D out of spite.)
2025-12-15 21:17:42 +0100 <monochrom> Alpha and Meta :)
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2025-12-15 21:18:18 +0100 <Rembane> There was something in the regular automata course that was a quintuple of "basically trivial things" I can't remember what though, maybe a turing machine or regular expression or something.
2025-12-15 21:20:58 +0100 <int-e> one way to get a quintuple is to have symbols, states, accepting states, rejecting states, transitions
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2025-12-15 21:22:03 +0100 <int-e> Which you might do for a Turing machine. Another way is to split transitions into transitions and epsilon-transitions, but not have rejecting states... so a typical NFA.
2025-12-15 21:23:52 +0100 <Rembane> Both sound distantly familiar, so at least one of those.
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2025-12-15 21:26:39 +0100CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen
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2025-12-15 21:35:40 +0100Googulator37Googulator
2025-12-15 21:35:43 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-12-15 21:36:41 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@71.84.33.135) peterbecich
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2025-12-15 21:42:14 +0100 <c_wraith> woo, I got a practical example of unsafeInterleaveST breaking "pure" code!
2025-12-15 21:42:25 +0100 <milan2> Guyz I am thinking about prorotyping web app. Async is a big thing in IO heavy apps. Can I expect that I will be able to create fully async web api from fully async db client, http client and
2025-12-15 21:42:28 +0100 <milan2> ?
2025-12-15 21:44:48 +0100 <[exa]> milan2: in short yes
2025-12-15 21:45:30 +0100 <c_wraith> I decided to go back and rewrite Day 8 of the AoC using ST to make all the updates O(1) instead of just throwing all the indirection into a Map. It turned out slower, and I realized this was due to a loss of laziness from generating a summary of the disjoint set strictly at every iteration even though it was only used once.
2025-12-15 21:46:27 +0100 <c_wraith> I threw in an unsafeInterleaveST to recover laziness, but I was already using unsafeInterleaveST to run Kruskal's algorithm on demand.
2025-12-15 21:47:03 +0100 <c_wraith> Thus I introduced an order dependence in a "pure" expression.
2025-12-15 21:47:13 +0100 <c_wraith> The moral of the story: immutability is pretty cool.
2025-12-15 21:48:51 +0100 <c_wraith> (It also only sped up to matching performance when I introduced that problem. Not a win!)
2025-12-15 21:49:02 +0100 <[exa]> milan2: in longer, make a stupid serial prototype first and then you can switch the backend for whichever concurrent webserver matches your expected workload
2025-12-15 21:50:07 +0100califax_(~califax@user/califx) califx
2025-12-15 21:50:48 +0100 <[exa]> c_wraith: nice way to show that tbh
2025-12-15 21:51:32 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-12-15 21:52:01 +0100 <milan2> [exa]: ty
2025-12-15 21:52:51 +0100 <c_wraith> I could probably make it a lot faster if I went with an array representation instead of STRef chasing. But I'd still lose on laziness unless I changed a lot of the API.
2025-12-15 21:52:53 +0100eron(~eron@187.56.156.228) lidenbrock
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2025-12-15 21:53:41 +0100 <c_wraith> Also, doing it via STRef chasing is *hard*. So many fiddly details. I wanted to practice with them.
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2025-12-15 22:07:20 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-12-15 22:13:58 +0100 <gentauro> chromoblob: but int-e is using `do-notation` so it's also `Monadic` right?
2025-12-15 22:14:07 +0100 <gentauro> you can see that from the signature
2025-12-15 22:14:23 +0100 <c_wraith> > do ()
2025-12-15 22:14:24 +0100 <lambdabot> ()
2025-12-15 22:14:25 +0100 <gentauro> I recall Marlow expanding `Applicative` to have `do-notation` as well
2025-12-15 22:14:25 +0100humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net)
2025-12-15 22:14:28 +0100 <c_wraith> () is monadic now
2025-12-15 22:14:37 +0100 <gentauro> but, You needed to do a bit more
2025-12-15 22:14:50 +0100humasect_(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect
2025-12-15 22:14:51 +0100 <c_wraith> there is an ApplicativeDo extension
2025-12-15 22:15:19 +0100 <c_wraith> It attempts to convert a do block into uses of <*> and <$> with a lot of tupling
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2025-12-15 22:15:58 +0100 <gentauro> https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3341694
2025-12-15 22:16:12 +0100 <c_wraith> If it fails to do that conversion, it uses the standard >> and >>= desugaring
2025-12-15 22:16:20 +0100humasect_(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect