2025/10/20

2025-10-20 00:02:25 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-20 00:10:30 +0200jreicher(~user@user/jreicher) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-20 00:11:08 +0200bggd(~bgg@2a01:e0a:819:1510:3eb5:dbc5:9370:da5d)
2025-10-20 00:11:56 +0200inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:5a1:e9a9:aa3a:fee6) Inline
2025-10-20 00:12:49 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) (Quit: peterbecich)
2025-10-20 00:13:17 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 00:13:22 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) peterbecich
2025-10-20 00:18:07 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-10-20 00:18:37 +0200karenw(~karenw@user/karenw) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-20 00:19:32 +0200Guest57(~Guest57@95.214.217.193)
2025-10-20 00:22:52 +0200Guest57(~Guest57@95.214.217.193) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-10-20 00:23:25 +0200kk-strat(~halloy995@ip72-208-127-103.ph.ph.cox.net) (Quit: kk-strat)
2025-10-20 00:23:29 +0200inline_(~inline@ip-178-202-059-161.um47.pools.vodafone-ip.de) Inline
2025-10-20 00:26:23 +0200inline__(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:1ce3:efcb:ed4f:9e96) Inline
2025-10-20 00:26:24 +0200inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:5a1:e9a9:aa3a:fee6) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-20 00:26:35 +0200inline__Inline
2025-10-20 00:27:15 +0200inline__(~inline@ip-178-202-059-161.um47.pools.vodafone-ip.de) Inline
2025-10-20 00:29:02 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 00:29:43 +0200inline_(~inline@ip-178-202-059-161.um47.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-10-20 00:30:42 +0200inline_(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:7925:4f19:c6de:9865) Inline
2025-10-20 00:31:03 +0200Inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:1ce3:efcb:ed4f:9e96) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-20 00:32:25 +0200inline__(~inline@ip-178-202-059-161.um47.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-20 00:33:30 +0200inline__(~inline@ip-178-202-059-161.um47.pools.vodafone-ip.de) Inline
2025-10-20 00:34:02 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-20 00:35:39 +0200tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:5da6:eb72:7bdc:37c8) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-10-20 00:37:19 +0200inline_(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:7925:4f19:c6de:9865) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-20 00:41:36 +0200dolio(~dolio@130.44.140.168) (Quit: ZNC 1.9.1 - https://znc.in)
2025-10-20 00:43:28 +0200dolio(~dolio@130.44.140.168) dolio
2025-10-20 00:44:50 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 00:45:20 +0200inline__inline
2025-10-20 00:47:46 +0200dolio(~dolio@130.44.140.168) (Client Quit)
2025-10-20 00:48:24 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-10-20 00:49:01 +0200dolio(~dolio@130.44.140.168) dolio
2025-10-20 00:49:49 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-20 00:55:24 +0200hololeap(~quassel@user/hololeap) (Quit: Bye)
2025-10-20 00:56:07 +0200hololeap(~quassel@user/hololeap) hololeap
2025-10-20 01:00:13 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 01:02:23 +0200Ram-Z(Ram-Z@2a01:7e01::f03c:91ff:fe57:d2df) Ram-Z
2025-10-20 01:04:58 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-20 01:05:14 +0200Ram-Z_(~Ram-Z@li1814-254.members.linode.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-20 01:07:38 +0200mreh(~matthew@host86-146-25-125.range86-146.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-20 01:08:59 +0200qqe(~qqq@185.54.23.200) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2025-10-20 01:15:59 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 01:16:23 +0200chromoblob(~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-20 01:16:39 +0200chromoblob(~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0
2025-10-20 01:21:01 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-20 01:24:36 +0200ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Quit: ljdarj)
2025-10-20 01:31:48 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 01:33:37 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-20 01:38:43 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-20 01:49:50 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 01:54:45 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-20 02:03:54 +0200craunts795335385(~craunts@136.158.7.194) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-20 02:04:10 +0200craunts795335385(~craunts@136.158.7.194)
2025-10-20 02:05:36 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 02:10:47 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-20 02:13:51 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-20 02:21:24 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 02:24:05 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2025-10-20 02:26:02 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-20 02:29:53 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) bitdex
2025-10-20 02:32:09 +0200weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2025-10-20 02:37:11 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 02:41:55 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-20 02:42:17 +0200otto_s(~user@p4ff274f9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-20 02:44:18 +0200otto_s(~user@p5b044609.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2025-10-20 02:48:30 +0200werneta(~werneta@71.83.160.242) werneta
2025-10-20 02:50:28 +0200qqe(~qqq@185.54.23.200)
2025-10-20 02:50:56 +0200trickard(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-20 02:51:08 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-10-20 02:51:22 +0200simplystuart(~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-20 02:52:57 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 02:53:50 +0200gustrb(~gustrb@191.243.134.87)
2025-10-20 02:55:15 +0200flipflops(~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-20 02:56:24 +0200flipflops(~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc)
2025-10-20 02:56:25 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-20 02:59:06 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-20 03:01:23 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-10-20 03:03:52 +0200flipflops(~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-20 03:09:59 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 03:10:50 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:d8fa:98a4:1ba0:2054) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-20 03:15:31 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-20 03:23:25 +0200inline(~inline@ip-178-202-059-161.um47.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-20 03:27:22 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e71719659d28c4899d9c5d95.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-20 03:27:32 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 03:32:25 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-20 03:41:54 +0200trickard_trickard
2025-10-20 03:43:19 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 03:48:37 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-20 03:49:58 +0200ttybitnik(~ttybitnik@user/wolper) (Quit: Fading out...)
2025-10-20 03:56:45 +0200weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2025-10-20 03:57:01 +0200weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2025-10-20 03:59:07 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 04:03:57 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-20 04:04:48 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp)
2025-10-20 04:08:09 +0200werneta(~werneta@71.83.160.242) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2025-10-20 04:10:32 +0200ephilalethes(~noumenon@113.51-175-156.customer.lyse.net) noumenon
2025-10-20 04:14:54 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 04:18:38 +0200jxv(~simulacru@2600:1700:5040:a200:846b:56ef:4da8:a13)
2025-10-20 04:21:40 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-20 04:23:05 +0200trickard(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-20 04:23:18 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-10-20 04:26:37 +0200jxv(~simulacru@2600:1700:5040:a200:846b:56ef:4da8:a13) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2025-10-20 04:29:40 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) peterbecich
2025-10-20 04:31:22 +0200td_(~td@i5387091E.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-20 04:33:00 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 04:33:23 +0200td_(~td@i53870936.versanet.de) td_
2025-10-20 04:33:35 +0200trickard_trickard
2025-10-20 04:36:01 +0200anpad(~pandeyan@user/anpad) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-20 04:36:37 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-20 04:38:25 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-20 04:48:47 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 04:51:41 +0200khumba(~khumba@user/khumba) khumba
2025-10-20 04:53:31 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-20 04:54:47 +0200annamalai(~annamalai@157.49.239.48) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-20 05:04:37 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 05:07:54 +0200anpad(~pandeyan@user/anpad) anpad
2025-10-20 05:09:08 +0200khumba(~khumba@user/khumba) ()
2025-10-20 05:09:14 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-20 05:10:59 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 05:15:38 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-20 05:16:13 +0200anpad(~pandeyan@user/anpad) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-20 05:17:33 +0200qqe(~qqq@185.54.23.200) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2025-10-20 05:24:34 +0200khumba(~khumba@user/khumba) khumba
2025-10-20 05:25:43 +0200img(~img@user/img) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2025-10-20 05:26:12 +0200poscat0x04(~poscat@user/poscat) poscat
2025-10-20 05:26:47 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 05:27:00 +0200img(~img@user/img) img
2025-10-20 05:27:09 +0200werneta(~werneta@71.83.160.242) werneta
2025-10-20 05:27:54 +0200poscat(~poscat@user/poscat) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-20 05:31:19 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-10-20 05:40:05 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) peterbecich
2025-10-20 05:42:35 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 05:47:24 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-20 05:48:50 +0200anpad(~pandeyan@user/anpad) anpad
2025-10-20 05:52:20 +0200aforemny(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cc7:6800:bfb8:1818:7f09:9156) aforemny
2025-10-20 05:52:40 +0200aforemny_(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cea:8700:cf12:fc7b:8ca1:78b9) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-20 05:58:20 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 05:59:13 +0200tomboy64(~tomboy64@user/tomboy64) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-20 05:59:28 +0200tomboy64(~tomboy64@user/tomboy64) tomboy64
2025-10-20 06:05:14 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-20 06:06:56 +0200werneta(~werneta@71.83.160.242) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2025-10-20 06:09:43 +0200wickedjargon(~user@120.29.79.98) wickedjargon
2025-10-20 06:12:00 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 06:16:57 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-20 06:22:35 +0200synchromesh(~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:3da8:1103:8261:15b5) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-20 06:23:20 +0200synchromesh(~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:75ff:6dec:5332:48f7) synchromesh
2025-10-20 06:27:48 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 06:28:53 +0200annamalai(~annamalai@2409:4072:601a:bdd2::2602:e0ac) annamalai
2025-10-20 06:32:42 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-20 06:43:14 +0200michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.221)
2025-10-20 06:43:35 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 06:48:26 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-20 06:59:23 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 07:01:05 +0200rvalue-(~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) rvalue
2025-10-20 07:01:07 +0200jreicher(~user@user/jreicher) jreicher
2025-10-20 07:01:39 +0200rvalue(~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-20 07:04:33 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-20 07:05:21 +0200halloy9957(~halloy995@ip72-208-127-103.ph.ph.cox.net)
2025-10-20 07:10:56 +0200rvalue(~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) rvalue
2025-10-20 07:11:55 +0200rvalue-(~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-20 07:13:01 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 07:13:52 +0200infinity0(~infinity0@pwned.gg) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-20 07:14:01 +0200Googulator(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-0485-6a66-0733-0e38.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-10-20 07:14:17 +0200Googulator(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-0485-6a66-0733-0e38.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-10-20 07:15:51 +0200Googulator31(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-0485-6a66-0733-0e38.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-10-20 07:15:55 +0200Googulator(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-0485-6a66-0733-0e38.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Client Quit)
2025-10-20 07:15:58 +0200takuan(~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be)
2025-10-20 07:17:46 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-20 07:19:48 +0200EvanR(~EvanR@user/evanr) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-20 07:21:04 +0200khumba(~khumba@user/khumba) ()
2025-10-20 07:27:22 +0200gustrb(~gustrb@191.243.134.87) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-20 07:28:05 +0200notzmv(~umar@user/notzmv) notzmv
2025-10-20 07:28:48 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 07:34:36 +0200infinity0(~infinity0@pwned.gg) infinity0
2025-10-20 07:36:01 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-20 07:42:24 +0200jreicher(~user@user/jreicher) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-20 07:45:25 +0200jreicher(~user@user/jreicher) jreicher
2025-10-20 07:45:43 +0200Googulator31(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-0485-6a66-0733-0e38.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-10-20 07:45:49 +0200Googulator22(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-0485-6a66-0733-0e38.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-10-20 07:46:18 +0200ephilalethes(~noumenon@113.51-175-156.customer.lyse.net) (Quit: Leaving)
2025-10-20 07:46:50 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 07:52:13 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-20 08:02:02 +0200Square(~Square4@user/square) Square
2025-10-20 08:02:38 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-20 08:05:27 +0200Square2(~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-20 08:05:37 +0200Googulator96(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-0485-6a66-0733-0e38.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-10-20 08:05:40 +0200Googulator22(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-0485-6a66-0733-0e38.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
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2025-10-20 09:33:08 +0200EvanR(~EvanR@user/evanr) EvanR
2025-10-20 09:34:46 +0200 <dminuoso> Are liftXXX primitives perhaps misnamed? It just occured to me that `liftIO :: IO a -> SomeT IO a` doesnt really pull anything out, it rather stuffs something in!
2025-10-20 09:34:49 +0200weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-20 09:34:53 +0200 <dminuoso> stuffIO seems more appropriate.
2025-10-20 09:38:40 +0200 <davean> It lifts an IO
2025-10-20 09:38:45 +0200 <davean> Its what it lifts
2025-10-20 09:39:37 +0200 <dminuoso> To me lifting suggests rather pulling something out.
2025-10-20 09:41:42 +0200 <davean> SomeT is build on IO, and it is a higher universe of semantics
2025-10-20 09:41:52 +0200 <davean> You are lifting it into the greater semantic world
2025-10-20 09:42:14 +0200 <davean> SomeT contains IO.
2025-10-20 09:42:43 +0200tabemann(~tabemann@172-13-49-137.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-20 09:42:47 +0200 <dminuoso> Well you're embedding a plain IO action into something richer, you're stuffing it into a richer description of a computation.
2025-10-20 09:43:08 +0200 <davean> No you aren't embedding it, it is *already embeded* SomeT has all of IO
2025-10-20 09:43:12 +0200tabemann(~tabemann@172-13-49-137.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
2025-10-20 09:43:22 +0200 <davean> IO is a subsection of SomeT IO
2025-10-20 09:43:33 +0200 <davean> It specificly isn't embedding
2025-10-20 09:44:05 +0200emmanuelux(~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-20 09:44:37 +0200 <davean> you can lower SomeT IO into just IO
2025-10-20 09:46:07 +0200srazkvt(~sarah@user/srazkvt) srazkvt
2025-10-20 09:46:14 +0200 <davean> IO is the foundation of SomeT
2025-10-20 09:46:23 +0200 <davean> SomeT is what is built on top
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2025-10-20 09:50:34 +0200 <dminuoso> davean: But at the same time, when we talk about transformers, we say we layer monads *ontop* of a base. In `SomeT IO` you generally call IO a base monad.
2025-10-20 09:51:05 +0200 <davean> Yes, exactly, hence lifting
2025-10-20 09:52:49 +0200trickard(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2025-10-20 09:55:05 +0200 <davean> IO is the base, SomeT is on top, thus we *lift IO into SomeT*
2025-10-20 09:55:21 +0200 <davean> Because it is semanticly beneith SomeT IO
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2025-10-20 10:08:25 +0200 <monochrom> The best thing about meaningful names is that there are so many meanings to choose from!
2025-10-20 10:08:35 +0200img(~img@user/img) img
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2025-10-20 10:40:58 +0200 <dminuoso> davean: I guess if we just think of monad transformers or just constructions that eventually embed as some kinds of pyramid, it seems rather arbitrary whether we imagine the pyramid to have its tip pointed downwards or upwards.
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2025-10-20 10:48:20 +0200 <davean> dminuoso: don't think of it as a peramid, think of its a sphere with subspheres nested inside it
2025-10-20 10:48:27 +0200 <davean> expanding out from zero
2025-10-20 10:48:46 +0200 <dminuoso> davean: Sure, and in that model wouldnt we think of IO as the inner core?
2025-10-20 10:49:07 +0200 <davean> It *is* the inner core, its not that we choose to think about it, it is litterly enclosed by
2025-10-20 10:49:18 +0200 <dminuoso> If we take a given IO action, say `putStrLn "Hello world"`, then its the action of putting that core inside layers and layers until we have a matching sphere.
2025-10-20 10:49:26 +0200 <dminuoso> Rather than pulling it out.
2025-10-20 10:50:05 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-20 10:51:23 +0200 <dminuoso> This may just be the difference between operational and semantic thinking.
2025-10-20 10:51:41 +0200 <davean> No, putStrLn is already an object in IO, it has no other existance
2025-10-20 10:52:01 +0200 <dminuoso> Well I meant `liftIO (putStrLn "foo")` of course.
2025-10-20 10:52:48 +0200 <davean> Write, that projects from the IO space to the IO subspace of SomeT IO
2025-10-20 10:52:51 +0200 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: I think of liftIO as lifting "into SomeT", not "out of IO"
2025-10-20 10:53:00 +0200 <davean> Yah, it NEVER LEAVES IO
2025-10-20 10:53:04 +0200 <davean> It can't leave IO
2025-10-20 10:53:07 +0200 <tomsmeding> the sky above is larger than you, so lifting moves it into the larger thing
2025-10-20 10:53:44 +0200 <davean> it maps the IO subspace into the SomeT space, and specicily the IO subspace of said
2025-10-20 10:54:04 +0200 <tomsmeding> indeed, SomeT IO may well have more logic than IO itself, so also in that sense, it's "lifting" into a more exalted space of SomeT IO computations
2025-10-20 10:54:17 +0200 <tomsmeding> it's exactly what monochrom said
2025-10-20 10:55:22 +0200 <davean> what did monochrom say?
2025-10-20 10:55:33 +0200 <tomsmeding> 47 minutes ago
2025-10-20 10:55:40 +0200 <dminuoso> Dont all monad transformers put the base monad on the outside, in the sense that if we have some tranformer stack over IO, ultimately we have something like `IO ((M1 :.: M2 :.: ...) a)` (and possibly a lambda outside for Reader)?
2025-10-20 10:55:43 +0200 <tomsmeding> <monochrom> The best thing about meaningful names is that there are so many meanings to choose from!
2025-10-20 10:56:16 +0200 <davean> dminuoso: no, no, that is very much NOT what they do
2025-10-20 10:56:23 +0200 <tomsmeding> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/transformers-0.6.1.0/docs/Control-Monad-Trans-State-Strict.htm…
2025-10-20 10:56:33 +0200 <tomsmeding> StateT s m a ~= s -> m (a, s)
2025-10-20 10:56:34 +0200 <dminuoso> Ah I guess not.
2025-10-20 10:56:46 +0200 <davean> dminuoso: which I think is where your confusion is
2025-10-20 10:56:47 +0200 <tomsmeding> when you run them, you get a computation inside m, yes
2025-10-20 10:56:59 +0200 <dminuoso> davean: No, this is actually just a tangent I was starting to explore.
2025-10-20 10:57:19 +0200 <tomsmeding> and contrary to what davean is saying, I do not think your perspective is wrong, it's just a perspective that mismatches with what I think is the intended intuition behind "lift"
2025-10-20 10:57:26 +0200 <dminuoso> davean: Until now I was just focused more on thinking of transformers as a syntactical construct where IO resided in since thats how I think of how the effects compose.
2025-10-20 10:58:11 +0200 <davean> It isn't how the effects compose though, which gets really improtant with state and such
2025-10-20 10:58:19 +0200 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: Perhaps. liftIO is just one of the few things that never really clicked on the naming to me.
2025-10-20 10:58:58 +0200 <dminuoso> davean: Apart from ReaderT, I've never really used transformers much for a bunch of reasons.
2025-10-20 10:59:21 +0200 <dminuoso> Except for some local computation tricks.
2025-10-20 10:59:44 +0200 <dminuoso> Say something like runMaybeT $ do ...
2025-10-20 11:00:11 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) toonn
2025-10-20 11:00:54 +0200 <dminuoso> Despite transformers being labeled with terms like "composition of effects", they are the antithesis of compositionality of library code.
2025-10-20 11:02:19 +0200 <davean> How so?
2025-10-20 11:04:01 +0200 <srazkvt> ig because instead of being able to call both functions for the wrapped monad, you need to lift the computations ?
2025-10-20 11:04:26 +0200 <dminuoso> If you use hard-wired transformers its really hard to compose different transformer code together. If you use mtl code you lack effect order specification. As a result you have a large variety of effect libraries that try to address these issues.
2025-10-20 11:04:47 +0200 <dminuoso> As a consequence hackage now is filled with code that ends up using any combination.
2025-10-20 11:05:37 +0200 <dminuoso> The only effect that is universally compatible with most libraries is pure IO.
2025-10-20 11:06:56 +0200 <davean> mtl you have a specific monad and then properties about it that you can use
2025-10-20 11:07:13 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn