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2025-06-02 00:26:25 +0200 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@178.34.162.18) |
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2025-06-02 00:32:39 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> Also, I got desperate and tried to go try Codecanvas.ai for MVP |
2025-06-02 00:32:57 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> it's not there yet; capability is quite limited right now |
2025-06-02 00:33:00 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 00:33:13 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> (wiki website target, or at least the support staff told me that) |
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2025-06-02 02:42:54 +0200 | <EvanR> | any clue why this is happening or if I'm just tripping. readFile on a named pipe acts normally the first time you open the fifo, "blocking" until a writer appears and starts sending data, then the lazy list terminates when the writer closes the fifo |
2025-06-02 02:43:01 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 02:43:03 +0200 | Digit | (~user@user/digit) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-06-02 02:43:13 +0200 | <EvanR> | after consuming the entire list, another call to readFile on the fifo immediately returns [] |
2025-06-02 02:43:23 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 02:44:20 +0200 | <geekosaur> | that's standard fifo behavior, yes |
2025-06-02 02:44:33 +0200 | <EvanR> | so you can never reopen a fifo? |
2025-06-02 02:44:38 +0200 | <geekosaur> | right |
2025-06-02 02:45:13 +0200 | <geekosaur> | you need to hold it open `O_RDWR` and have some protocol for "end of current connection". or use an `AF_LOCAL` socket, which behaves the way you want FIFOs to work |
2025-06-02 02:46:10 +0200 | <geekosaur> | actually this isn't 100% POSIXX behavior, `readFile` and the somewhat weird Haskell Report-specified semantics of lazy I/O are contributing |
2025-06-02 02:46:41 +0200 | <geekosaur> | the two together make FIFOs kinda unusable in Haskell |
2025-06-02 02:46:43 +0200 | Digit | (~user@user/digit) Digit |
2025-06-02 02:47:05 +0200 | <geekosaur> | but that's only slightly worse than the normal POSIX behavior |
2025-06-02 02:47:21 +0200 | <geekosaur> | really, just don't use FIFOs |
2025-06-02 02:49:54 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 02:50:17 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 02:50:28 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 02:50:44 +0200 | <EvanR> | I don't understand the condition which causes a 2nd opening of the fifo to instantly return EOF |
2025-06-02 02:50:58 +0200 | <EvanR> | e.g. I can run the program again or a second program to open it and it blocks |
2025-06-02 02:51:07 +0200 | <EvanR> | for reading |
2025-06-02 02:51:20 +0200 | <EvanR> | is it like "one process, one opening" |
2025-06-02 02:51:56 +0200 | <EvanR> | come back with another process if you want more fifo |
2025-06-02 02:52:11 +0200 | <geekosaur> | yes |
2025-06-02 02:52:15 +0200 | <EvanR> | interesting |
2025-06-02 02:52:54 +0200 | <geekosaur> | POSIX FIFO semantics come from UNIX System III/V and are rather strange |
2025-06-02 02:54:02 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I only know of one program which made useful use of them: on System V R3, `cron` opened a private FIFO for read/write and listened for lines written by `crontab`, which told it to reread the specified crontab file |
2025-06-02 02:55:49 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
2025-06-02 02:56:15 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 02:56:36 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 02:57:59 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-06-02 02:58:38 +0200 | <geekosaur> | btw I think what causes that instant-EOF behavior is that the RTS opens it non-blocking, then `readFile` sets up an `unsafeInterleaveIO` which fails on the first read, which is passed back to you as EOF |
2025-06-02 02:59:39 +0200 | <geekosaur> | lazy I/O doesn't hande exceptional conditions at all well |
2025-06-02 03:02:39 +0200 | <EvanR> | I tried using openFile and hGetLine |
2025-06-02 03:02:43 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 03:02:52 +0200 | <geekosaur> | so anyway FIFOs are broken, lazy I/O is broken, if you use them together you get to keep all the shattered pieces |
2025-06-02 03:03:05 +0200 | <EvanR> | same result, first it blocks waiting for a writer, second time it suceeds immediately but hGetLine throws because EOF |
2025-06-02 03:03:05 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 03:03:33 +0200 | <EvanR> | is it open blocking the first time and non-blocking the second time |
2025-06-02 03:04:25 +0200 | <geekosaur> | it should always be non-blocking, I think? the RTS doesn't use blocking fds because that would block the whole process instead of just the running thread |
2025-06-02 03:04:29 +0200 | <EvanR> | if this can't be adjusted I'm not sure how that crontab trick even worked |
2025-06-02 03:04:41 +0200 | <EvanR> | opening the first time blocks if there's no writer yet |
2025-06-02 03:05:02 +0200 | <geekosaur> | because only writers close it. cron kept it open O_RDWR|O_NONBLOCK continuously |
2025-06-02 03:05:16 +0200 | <EvanR> | oh |
2025-06-02 03:05:35 +0200 | <EvanR> | i'll try opening it RDWR |
2025-06-02 03:05:40 +0200 | <geekosaur> | so it never saw EOF, it just relied on every "record" being a single line |
2025-06-02 03:06:16 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 03:06:24 +0200 | <EvanR> | that made it behave |
2025-06-02 03:07:58 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 03:08:23 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 03:08:30 +0200 | <EvanR> | it causes reader to not see EOF from writers closing |
2025-06-02 03:08:43 +0200 | <EvanR> | which is good enough for government work |
2025-06-02 03:09:10 +0200 | <EvanR> | but also closing and reopening a second time gives blocking behavior again |
2025-06-02 03:09:17 +0200 | <EvanR> | weird |
2025-06-02 03:11:11 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-06-02 03:14:50 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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2025-06-02 03:16:23 +0200 | <EvanR> | if the RTS puts all file I/O through the select mechanism they wouldn't need to be non-blocking right |
2025-06-02 03:16:47 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 03:16:49 +0200 | <EvanR> | since then it knows if a read or write would block |
2025-06-02 03:17:11 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 03:18:28 +0200 | <monochrom> | It is still simpler to keep using the non-blocking mode. |
2025-06-02 03:20:32 +0200 | <EvanR> | does it make any difference if it's all selected? |
2025-06-02 03:21:09 +0200 | <monochrom> | Suppose two threads race to read from the same FD. Suppose select detects that data has arrived. Should the RTS wake up just one of them? Or both of them? Either way is easily broken under blocking mode because you don't know how much each thread actually reads. |
2025-06-02 03:21:11 +0200 | <geekosaur> | yes, because it affects semantics of the FIFO, not just blocking-ness |
2025-06-02 03:21:22 +0200 | <geekosaur> | also that |
2025-06-02 03:21:47 +0200 | <monochrom> | I don't mean it is unsolvable. There is a way you can go out of your way to fool-proof that. |
2025-06-02 03:22:01 +0200 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-06-02 03:22:03 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 03:22:03 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:9dbe:32d6:8014:9bea) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
2025-06-02 03:22:19 +0200 | <EvanR> | the RTS doesn't just make 1 thread at a time accessing the FD |
2025-06-02 03:22:22 +0200 | <monochrom> | Alternatively, non-blocking mode relieves you from working so hard, while still be completely safe and correct. |
2025-06-02 03:22:22 +0200 | <EvanR> | ? |
2025-06-02 03:23:48 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 03:24:11 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 03:25:24 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 03:25:25 +0200 | <EvanR> | k I messed up my original test by also pipe the fifo to stdin |
2025-06-02 03:25:32 +0200 | <EvanR> | now the behavior with lazy I/O is consistent |
2025-06-02 03:25:52 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 03:25:59 +0200 | <EvanR> | it *always* immediately returns an empty list |
2025-06-02 03:26:45 +0200 | <monochrom> | OK, even better example without racing. 2 bytes have arrived. But the thread called read(fd, buf, 10). Blocking mode hangs that read() waiting for 8 more bytes (or EOF or error). |
2025-06-02 03:26:58 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-06-02 03:27:16 +0200 | <monochrom> | GHC uses green threads so all of RTS hangs. |
2025-06-02 03:27:35 +0200 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 03:28:58 +0200 | <int-e> | You should get a partial read; it's supposed to block only when no data is available at all. |
2025-06-02 03:29:09 +0200 | _d0t | (~{-d0t-}@user/-d0t-/x-7915216) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-06-02 03:29:23 +0200 | <EvanR> | yes it returns less than requested in blocking mode |
2025-06-02 03:29:27 +0200 | <monochrom> | At this point I hope you don't react like my students. They are lazy and switch to read(fd, buf, 1) and be egregiously inefficient. GHC RTS cannot afford to do that, people would riot. |
2025-06-02 03:29:49 +0200 | <monochrom> | Ah OK my bad. |
2025-06-02 03:30:02 +0200 | <EvanR> | that's why you have to repeatedly write until everything goes through since it might return less than what you wanted to write |
2025-06-02 03:30:49 +0200 | <int-e> | fread() does that loop for you, so if you took your semantics from there you'd be right. |
2025-06-02 03:31:56 +0200 | <int-e> | (you still get partial reads but only on actual errors or EOF) |
2025-06-02 03:32:08 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 03:32:31 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 03:32:51 +0200 | <int-e> | Anyway. This shouldn't distract from the point that read *can* block if the fd is not in non-blocking mode, and allowing blind reads simplifies some code.. |
2025-06-02 03:35:07 +0200 | <int-e> | ...and break some foreign libraries that you might want to pass fds to as a bonus. ;-) |
2025-06-02 03:36:21 +0200 | mange | (~mange@user/mange) mange |
2025-06-02 03:37:51 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 03:38:01 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
2025-06-02 03:38:15 +0200 | _d0t | (~{-d0t-}@user/-d0t-/x-7915216) {-d0t-} |
2025-06-02 03:39:49 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 03:40:11 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 03:45:05 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
2025-06-02 03:45:11 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@user/haritz) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in) |
2025-06-02 03:45:42 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@152.37.64.162) |
2025-06-02 03:45:43 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@152.37.64.162) (Changing host) |
2025-06-02 03:45:43 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@user/haritz) haritz |
2025-06-02 03:47:42 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 03:48:04 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 03:48:18 +0200 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell |
2025-06-02 03:55:41 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 03:55:54 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 03:56:06 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 03:57:21 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 04:00:26 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
2025-06-02 04:00:53 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
2025-06-02 04:01:53 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 04:02:17 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 04:08:01 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 04:08:23 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 04:11:44 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 04:15:03 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 04:15:25 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 04:16:45 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-06-02 04:20:11 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 04:22:06 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 04:22:27 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 04:24:50 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-06-02 04:28:51 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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2025-06-02 04:35:38 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 04:35:56 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 04:36:00 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 04:40:49 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
2025-06-02 04:41:06 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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2025-06-02 04:48:26 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 04:51:55 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 04:54:33 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 04:54:59 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 04:57:04 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-06-02 04:58:22 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i53870925.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-06-02 04:59:32 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i53870908.versanet.de) td_ |
2025-06-02 05:01:40 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 05:02:01 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 05:07:42 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 05:09:05 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 05:09:23 +0200 | <EvanR> | this is fun, if I try to open a named pipe in haskell in WriteMode, to act as the writer, openFile: does not exist (No such device or address) |
2025-06-02 05:09:28 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 05:09:33 +0200 | <EvanR> | ReadWriteMode again "fixes" it |
2025-06-02 05:10:21 +0200 | <EvanR> | meanwhile in C it's the opposite, opening the "write only" fifo with fopen and "rw" causes it to fail to write, while "w" makes it behave |
2025-06-02 05:12:22 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-06-02 05:14:02 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 05:14:30 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 05:18:21 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 05:20:54 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 05:21:07 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 05:21:15 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 05:22:01 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
2025-06-02 05:23:32 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 05:23:57 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 05:27:58 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-06-02 05:30:29 +0200 | <mauke> | EvanR: "rw" is not a thing in fopen. did you mean "r+"? |
2025-06-02 05:30:51 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 05:31:16 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 05:32:41 +0200 | <mauke> | ENXIO is returned when you open a fifo in non-blocking mode for writing while there are no readers |
2025-06-02 05:33:32 +0200 | <mauke> | (in blocking mode, open() will block until there is a reader) |
2025-06-02 05:36:31 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 05:36:55 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 05:39:10 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 05:44:35 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
2025-06-02 05:44:58 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 05:45:22 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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2025-06-02 05:51:26 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 05:54:57 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 05:55:23 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) |
2025-06-02 05:59:25 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 05:59:48 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 06:00:07 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-06-02 06:06:39 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 06:06:58 +0200 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
2025-06-02 06:07:01 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 06:10:32 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 06:13:00 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 06:13:22 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 06:15:53 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
2025-06-02 06:16:38 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> https://www.stackage.org/lts-23.24/hoogle?q=foo is this broken for anyone else? |
2025-06-02 06:16:55 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> and hoogle seems to be pointing to haskell platform only, not stackage |
2025-06-02 06:18:48 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 06:19:10 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 06:22:07 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 06:22:23 +0200 | <trickard> | I get 502 bad gateway |
2025-06-02 06:23:29 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
2025-06-02 06:25:16 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 06:25:35 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 06:25:38 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 06:25:50 +0200 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.203) |
2025-06-02 06:25:59 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
2025-06-02 06:27:30 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-06-02 06:29:23 +0200 | tavare | (~tavare@user/tavare) tavare |
2025-06-02 06:29:32 +0200 | tavare | (~tavare@user/tavare) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 06:32:40 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 06:33:15 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 06:33:40 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 06:35:42 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
2025-06-02 06:37:54 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 06:41:02 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 06:41:25 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 06:42:44 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
2025-06-02 06:47:21 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 06:47:48 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 06:51:05 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 06:51:26 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 06:51:27 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> Stackage has its own separate Google |
2025-06-02 06:51:37 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> * hoogle |
2025-06-02 06:53:26 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 06:57:48 +0200 | Lord_of_Life_ | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life |
2025-06-02 06:58:10 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-06-02 06:58:30 +0200 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-06-02 06:59:09 +0200 | Lord_of_Life_ | Lord_of_Life |
2025-06-02 06:59:09 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 06:59:19 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 06:59:43 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 07:00:28 +0200 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) Unicorn_Princess |
2025-06-02 07:02:08 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
2025-06-02 07:05:06 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 07:05:28 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 07:11:38 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 07:12:01 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 07:17:31 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 07:17:55 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 07:22:44 +0200 | tinjamin4 | (~tinjamin@banshee.h4x0r.space) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
2025-06-02 07:23:07 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 07:25:04 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 07:25:30 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 07:27:49 +0200 | internatetional | (~nate@2404:c0:5c60::339d:583b) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
2025-06-02 07:27:51 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-06-02 07:28:49 +0200 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 07:29:02 +0200 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
2025-06-02 07:30:18 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 07:30:49 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 07:35:39 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 07:36:00 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 07:38:55 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 07:39:12 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
2025-06-02 07:41:41 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 07:42:04 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 07:44:16 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
2025-06-02 07:45:18 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
2025-06-02 07:45:46 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 07:46:07 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 07:47:42 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:7d34:d696:3458:218b) |
2025-06-02 07:51:39 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 07:52:47 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 07:53:12 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 07:54:41 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 07:58:22 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:7d34:d696:3458:218b) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
2025-06-02 07:59:46 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-06-02 08:00:51 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 08:01:19 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 08:02:35 +0200 | califax_ | (~califax@user/califx) califx |
2025-06-02 08:03:31 +0200 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 08:03:50 +0200 | califax_ | califax |
2025-06-02 08:07:42 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 08:08:03 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 08:08:10 +0200 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-06-02 08:10:29 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 08:10:57 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@user/haritz) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in) |
2025-06-02 08:11:28 +0200 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty |
2025-06-02 08:13:33 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:7d34:d696:3458:218b) |
2025-06-02 08:14:20 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 08:14:46 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 08:15:23 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen |
2025-06-02 08:15:29 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
2025-06-02 08:18:55 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod |
2025-06-02 08:19:10 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 08:20:29 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 08:20:50 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 08:22:26 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
2025-06-02 08:22:33 +0200 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-06-02 08:24:09 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 08:25:35 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 08:26:01 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 08:26:50 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 08:29:29 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
2025-06-02 08:30:05 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
2025-06-02 08:31:10 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 08:31:22 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 08:31:43 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 08:33:35 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
2025-06-02 08:34:43 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
2025-06-02 08:34:54 +0200 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
2025-06-02 08:37:03 +0200 | werneta | (~werneta@syn-071-083-160-242.res.spectrum.com) werneta |
2025-06-02 08:38:01 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 08:38:27 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 08:39:55 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 08:40:00 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 08:44:07 +0200 | Digit | (~user@user/digit) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 08:44:43 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 08:45:04 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 08:45:05 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
2025-06-02 08:45:42 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
2025-06-02 08:49:41 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@wireless-86-50-140-9.open.aalto.fi) fp |
2025-06-02 08:51:16 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 08:51:39 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 08:51:51 +0200 | smalltalkman | (uid545680@id-545680.hampstead.irccloud.com) smalltalkman |
2025-06-02 08:53:38 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 08:55:09 +0200 | Digit | (~user@user/digit) Digit |
2025-06-02 08:55:41 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 08:58:01 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 08:58:25 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 08:59:09 +0200 | sawilagar | (~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) sawilagar |
2025-06-02 09:00:01 +0200 | caconym7 | (~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye) |
2025-06-02 09:00:04 +0200 | emmanuelux | (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Quit: au revoir) |
2025-06-02 09:00:26 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-06-02 09:00:42 +0200 | caconym7 | (~caconym@user/caconym) caconym |
2025-06-02 09:02:13 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 09:02:42 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 09:04:43 +0200 | werneta | (~werneta@syn-071-083-160-242.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-06-02 09:09:52 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 09:10:22 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 09:11:05 +0200 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
2025-06-02 09:11:30 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 09:11:54 +0200 | rvalue- | (~rvalue@user/rvalue) rvalue |
2025-06-02 09:13:10 +0200 | rvalue | (~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-06-02 09:14:12 +0200 | Digit | (~user@user/digit) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 09:14:19 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e71c4f46a4d9c5906f327091.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk |
2025-06-02 09:14:26 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:7d34:d696:3458:218b) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
2025-06-02 09:16:01 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 09:16:14 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-06-02 09:16:24 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 09:17:08 +0200 | econo_ | (uid147250@id-147250.tinside.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
2025-06-02 09:18:46 +0200 | rvalue- | rvalue |
2025-06-02 09:19:09 +0200 | Digit | (~user@user/digit) Digit |
2025-06-02 09:22:07 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 09:22:35 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 09:23:14 +0200 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
2025-06-02 09:24:05 +0200 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937 |
2025-06-02 09:25:52 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 09:26:20 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 09:30:55 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@wireless-86-50-140-9.open.aalto.fi) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-06-02 09:32:14 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@wireless-86-50-140-9.open.aalto.fi) fp |
2025-06-02 09:34:02 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 09:34:22 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 09:34:26 +0200 | harveypwca | (~harveypwc@2601:246:d080:f6e0:27d6:8cc7:eca9:c46c) HarveyPwca |
2025-06-02 09:35:24 +0200 | harveypwca | (~harveypwc@2601:246:d080:f6e0:27d6:8cc7:eca9:c46c) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 09:39:44 +0200 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: irc.renjuan.org (juan@acm.org)) |
2025-06-02 09:40:42 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 09:40:54 +0200 | developer_ | (~developer@90.167.50.215) (Quit: Leaving) |
2025-06-02 09:41:05 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 09:41:19 +0200 | aman | (~aman@user/aman) aman |
2025-06-02 09:41:46 +0200 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 09:42:21 +0200 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937 |
2025-06-02 09:46:00 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 09:46:22 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 09:50:29 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 09:50:51 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 09:54:35 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 09:54:57 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 09:59:18 +0200 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
2025-06-02 10:00:22 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 10:00:44 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 10:03:18 +0200 | aman | (~aman@user/aman) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-06-02 10:04:18 +0200 | sawilagar | (~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 10:05:24 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 10:05:48 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 10:07:14 +0200 | tinjamin4 | (~tinjamin@banshee.h4x0r.space) |
2025-06-02 10:09:16 +0200 | aman | (~aman@user/aman) aman |
2025-06-02 10:10:00 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
2025-06-02 10:10:35 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 10:10:58 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 10:11:23 +0200 | tinjamin4 | (~tinjamin@banshee.h4x0r.space) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-06-02 10:16:08 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 10:16:30 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 10:17:12 +0200 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:abb3:7000:51f4:aea7:1982:b1a4) ubert |
2025-06-02 10:23:16 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 10:23:39 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 10:24:02 +0200 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/Lycurgus) Lycurgus |
2025-06-02 10:26:47 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 10:27:04 +0200 | sawilagar | (~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) sawilagar |
2025-06-02 10:27:07 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 10:30:03 +0200 | euandreh | (~Thunderbi@189.6.105.228) euandreh |
2025-06-02 10:34:38 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 10:35:00 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 10:36:47 +0200 | dhil | (~dhil@5.151.29.138) dhil |
2025-06-02 10:39:56 +0200 | pointlessslippe1 | (~pointless@62.106.85.17) pointlessslippe1 |
2025-06-02 10:40:21 +0200 | pointlessslippe1 | (~pointless@62.106.85.17) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 10:40:22 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 10:40:43 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 10:45:53 +0200 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: irc.renjuan.org (juan@acm.org)) |
2025-06-02 10:46:02 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 10:46:04 +0200 | pointlessslippe1 | (~pointless@62.106.85.17) pointlessslippe1 |
2025-06-02 10:46:26 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 10:53:08 +0200 | euandreh | (~Thunderbi@189.6.105.228) (Quit: euandreh) |
2025-06-02 10:53:43 +0200 | euandreh1 | (~Thunderbi@189.31.61.8) euandreh |
2025-06-02 10:54:52 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 10:55:16 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 10:56:01 +0200 | euandreh1 | euandreh |
2025-06-02 10:56:51 +0200 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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2025-06-02 14:17:52 +0200 | <hellwolf> | | Consider the Pascal statement y := z + 1. Using the convention that y’ denotes the new value of y, we can rewrite this statement as the mathematical formula y’ = z + 1, Many readers will think that the Pascal statement and the formula are equally simple. |
2025-06-02 14:17:52 +0200 | <hellwolf> | They are wrong. The formula is much simpler than the Pascal statement. Equality is a simple concept that five-year-old children understand. Assignment (:=) is a complicated concept that university students find difficult. |
2025-06-02 14:18:11 +0200 | <hellwolf> | ^-- I found this statement from a CS paper amusing. |
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2025-06-02 14:33:27 +0200 | ttybitnik | (~ttybitnik@user/wolper) ttybitnik |
2025-06-02 14:34:42 +0200 | aman | (~aman@user/aman) (Quit: aman) |
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2025-06-02 14:35:27 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 14:41:30 +0200 | <ski> | well, one could draw a distinction between local mutation, and mutation via (possibly aliased) indirections/references/pointers (transitively) to data structures. the former can be modelled via a group of mutually tail-recursive functions (indicating labels for branching & joining, and for loops) (basically SSA, Single Static-Assignment, form) |
2025-06-02 14:41:43 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 14:42:07 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 14:42:46 +0200 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@178.34.162.18) (Quit: ;-) |
2025-06-02 14:43:01 +0200 | <ski> | latter, and i suppose especially mutating references/pointers, would be harder to try to model in such a nicer way |
2025-06-02 14:43:57 +0200 | <ski> | (in den. sem., you carry around a store mapping abstract locations to values, where those values could include other locations) |
2025-06-02 14:44:32 +0200 | AlexNoo | (~AlexNoo@178.34.162.18) (Quit: Leaving) |
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2025-06-02 14:50:25 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | hellwolf: it's definitely amusing, but not so sure about its validity :) |
2025-06-02 14:51:10 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | (counterpoint: the formula has 3 quantities involved (old y, new y, z), whereas the assignment only has 2 (new y, z)) |
2025-06-02 14:51:17 +0200 | <hellwolf> | it's a well cited paper (3000+ citations) |
2025-06-02 14:51:31 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | well-cited papers can be wrong |
2025-06-02 14:51:32 +0200 | <hellwolf> | (not saying that is a proof for it's validity) |
2025-06-02 14:51:50 +0200 | <hellwolf> | it's amusing that some myth, or mistakes, can spread so far. |
2025-06-02 14:51:52 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | and also, the paper as a whole can be valid even if this particular claim is dubious :) |
2025-06-02 14:52:26 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 14:52:50 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 14:52:59 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | (another counterpoint: in the equation model, you have to keep the equations in mind in order to make sense of new ones. In the assignment model, you have to keep only the variables' values in mind) |
2025-06-02 14:53:07 +0200 | <__monty__> | It immediately becomes less dubious with the example `y := y + 1`. |
2025-06-02 14:53:20 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | then they should have taken that example! |
2025-06-02 14:53:45 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | also, I posit that's primarily because of the notation using '=' |
2025-06-02 14:53:49 +0200 | <__monty__> | Did they not? We don't know what `z` is, maybe it's `z := y + 1`! |
2025-06-02 14:53:58 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | a 5-year old, or at least a 5-year-old of 10 years ago, has certainly used an eraser before |
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2025-06-02 17:16:43 +0200 | <hellwolf> | ¬ ∀ ¬ <-- what is the closest you can get from Haskell to this? |
2025-06-02 17:16:46 +0200 | distopico | (~cerdolibr@xvm-111-150.dc2.ghst.net) distopico |
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2025-06-02 17:48:54 +0200 | srk- | srk |
2025-06-02 17:49:51 +0200 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: irc.renjuan.org (juan@acm.org)) |
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2025-06-02 17:51:33 +0200 | <ski> | (forall a. f a -> o) -> o -- ? |
2025-06-02 17:51:58 +0200 | <ski> | (forall a. f a -> m Void) -> m Void -- ? |
2025-06-02 17:53:00 +0200 | <ski> | p (forall a. p (f a) Void) Void -- ? |
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2025-06-02 18:18:49 +0200 | dispater- | (~dispater@user/brprice) brprice |
2025-06-02 18:19:19 +0200 | orcus- | (~orcus@user/brprice) brprice |
2025-06-02 18:19:33 +0200 | sawilagar | (~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 18:19:55 +0200 | ttybitnik | (~ttybitnik@user/wolper) ttybitnik |
2025-06-02 18:22:42 +0200 | comerijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
2025-06-02 18:24:18 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 18:24:42 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 18:24:59 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
2025-06-02 18:26:23 +0200 | harveypwca | (~harveypwc@2601:246:d080:f6e0:27d6:8cc7:eca9:c46c) HarveyPwca |
2025-06-02 18:27:37 +0200 | comerijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-06-02 18:27:43 +0200 | <dolio> | tomsmeding: Is your objection that equality is not really understood by 5 year olds? |
2025-06-02 18:27:51 +0200 | <dolio> | Not that assignment is simple? |
2025-06-02 18:31:29 +0200 | miguelnegrao | (~miguelneg@2001:818:dc71:d100:97a9:f15a:6ac:fc9e) |
2025-06-02 18:31:30 +0200 | jrm | (~jrm@user/jrm) (Quit: ciao) |
2025-06-02 18:31:46 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 18:32:02 +0200 | <hellwolf> | I have more outrageous statement from the same paper: "advocates of so-called functional programming languages often claim that they just use ordinary mathematical functions, but try explaining to a twelve-year-old how evaluating a mathematical function can display a character on her computer screen" |
2025-06-02 18:32:08 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 18:32:29 +0200 | <hellwolf> | -- The temporal logic of actions, Leslie Lamport. |
2025-06-02 18:32:44 +0200 | <hellwolf> | 1994 |
2025-06-02 18:32:54 +0200 | jrm | (~jrm@user/jrm) jrm |
2025-06-02 18:34:24 +0200 | <hellwolf> | ski: somehow that (not forall not) equivalent to ∃. So, by extension, Haskell's idiom of existential type is a way to encode that? I don't know, just guessing. |
2025-06-02 18:34:50 +0200 | <dolio> | It's not equivalent except in classical logic. |
2025-06-02 18:36:23 +0200 | <__monty__> | TLA+ is interesting. I don't think the mathematical function is really the hard part of that though. |
2025-06-02 18:36:28 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 18:36:58 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 18:37:07 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | Hi all, I'm completely stuck with something from Data.Type.Equality . How can I define use p = gcastWith p Refl ? If I use gcastWith p Refl it works fine to for instance to prove (a + 1 ) :~: (b+1) from (a :~: b) but I can't seem to define it with a function. use p = gcastWith p Refl does not work without a type signature, and I can't figure one |
2025-06-02 18:37:07 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | out. |
2025-06-02 18:38:13 +0200 | olivial | (~benjaminl@user/benjaminl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 18:38:28 +0200 | olivial | (~benjaminl@user/benjaminl) benjaminl |
2025-06-02 18:38:47 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | chatgpt O3 can't figure this one out either :-) |
2025-06-02 18:40:30 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | use :: forall f a b. (a :~: b) -> f a :~: f b doesn't quite do it, then GHC doesn't know what the "f" should be |
2025-06-02 18:41:50 +0200 | jrm | (~jrm@user/jrm) (Quit: ciao) |
2025-06-02 18:41:59 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@hof1.kyla.fi) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-06-02 18:42:17 +0200 | <dolio> | You want to define `p = gcastWith p Refl`? That seems like it will just loop. |
2025-06-02 18:43:05 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | no: use p = gcastWith p Refl |
2025-06-02 18:43:15 +0200 | jrm | (~jrm@user/jrm) jrm |
2025-06-02 18:43:20 +0200 | <dolio> | Oh. |
2025-06-02 18:43:25 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | define a function named "use". I belive it is also called "cong" ? |
2025-06-02 18:43:36 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 18:43:48 +0200 | <dolio> | I see. |
2025-06-02 18:43:59 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 18:44:28 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | The reason for the name is like "GHC please use this theorem and in this bigger expression" |
2025-06-02 18:44:33 +0200 | sawilagar | (~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) sawilagar |
2025-06-02 18:44:49 +0200 | jrm | (~jrm@user/jrm) (Client Quit) |
2025-06-02 18:45:46 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | If I type the expression by inplace "gcastWith p Refl" for some p that I have around, then it will work, GHC goes and works its magic. |
2025-06-02 18:46:11 +0200 | jrm | (~jrm@user/jrm) jrm |
2025-06-02 18:46:12 +0200 | <Leary> | That's what `gcastWith` itself is already doing. |
2025-06-02 18:46:14 +0200 | <dolio> | Well, cong normally has a type that would be like `a :~: b -> f a :~: f b`. However, if you're expecting to use it with `_ + 1`, it seems unlikely that you will be able to get `f` to be that. |
2025-06-02 18:46:24 +0200 | <Leary> | You're just specialising `r` in the signature of `gcastWith` to `c :~: d`? |
2025-06-02 18:46:55 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | Example: theoremAddZero :: forall n . SNat n -> n + Zero :~: n |
2025-06-02 18:47:06 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | theoremAddZero (SSucc n) = gcastWith (theoremAddZero n) Refl |
2025-06-02 18:47:21 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | miguelnegrao: do you have the typing plugins? |
2025-06-02 18:47:29 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | No, its all vanilla GHC |
2025-06-02 18:47:41 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | using just singletons package |
2025-06-02 18:47:42 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | then that theoremAddZero will not work |
2025-06-02 18:47:49 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | works fine |
2025-06-02 18:48:06 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | oh, yes, my mistake |
2025-06-02 18:48:13 +0200 | <dolio> | The reason that the expression works is that `r` gets instantiated to `a + 1 :~: b + 1` or something, but factoring out that `(+1)` as an `f` is dubious. |
2025-06-02 18:48:13 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | $(singletons [d| |
2025-06-02 18:48:13 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | data Nat = Zero | Succ Nat |
2025-06-02 18:48:14 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | |]) |
2025-06-02 18:49:17 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | not only dubious: it's impossible, since `f ~ (+1)` would mean that (+) here is a partially-applied type family, which GHC does not allow |
2025-06-02 18:49:20 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | btw, the other case is the theorem is trivial theoremAddZero SZero = Refl |
2025-06-02 18:49:30 +0200 | <dolio> | Right. |
2025-06-02 18:50:00 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | basically I wanted to write these proofs like: |
2025-06-02 18:50:00 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | theoremAddZero (SSucc n) = use (theoremAddZero n) |
2025-06-02 18:50:04 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | it would be pretier |
2025-06-02 18:50:41 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | well, perhaps it would, but I'm fairly sure it's impossible to give `use` a type that makes that work |
2025-06-02 18:51:02 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | ok, that is good to know. I just felt a bit stupid writting it over and over :-) |
2025-06-02 18:51:14 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | glad to know the problem is not on my side |
2025-06-02 18:51:27 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 18:51:50 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | there are other languages that do allow partial application of "type families"; in particular, Agda and Idris |
2025-06-02 18:51:50 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 18:52:24 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | but that's a whole different territory :) |
2025-06-02 18:52:42 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | Another thing I have a feeling I cannot do is compile a list of proofs and tell GHC to use all those proofs to prove something else. |
2025-06-02 18:53:06 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | data Dict c where Dict :: c => Dict c |
2025-06-02 18:53:06 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | I have to write it like: gcastWith p1 $ gcastWith p2 $ gcastWith p3 $ Refl |
2025-06-02 18:53:12 +0200 | omegatron | (~some@user/omegatron) (Quit: Power is a curious thing. It can be contained, hidden, locked away, and yet it always breaks free.) |
2025-06-02 18:53:23 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | then use `Dict @(a :~: b, c :~: d, e :~: f)` |
2025-06-02 18:53:27 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | I did rename gcastWith to "have" so it looks a bit better |
2025-06-02 18:53:40 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | to bundle up a bunch of proofs |
2025-06-02 18:53:48 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | but it's not generic like passing a list of proofs, no |
2025-06-02 18:53:49 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | interesting |
2025-06-02 18:54:41 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | but that may help only if you have the same set of "lemmas" in a bunch of places |
2025-06-02 18:54:44 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | Thanks tomsmeding for that tip, I will investigate |
2025-06-02 18:55:20 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | No, usually I just build a group of substeps in the proof which I then use in a more complicated expression part of the same proof |
2025-06-02 18:55:42 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | is the goal of this just to play around with singletons in haskell? |
2025-06-02 18:55:53 +0200 | internatetional | (~nate@2001:448a:20a3:c2e5:5e5:e8fb:73b6:1daa) internatetional |
2025-06-02 18:55:59 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | because if the goal is to formalise some mathematics, haskell is _not_ the suitable language :p |
2025-06-02 18:56:15 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | Essentially yes, it is just for fun |
2025-06-02 18:56:23 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | then have at it :) |
2025-06-02 18:56:29 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | But I have been porting mathlib, the Nats part |
2025-06-02 18:56:52 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | stuff like theoremAddMulDivLeft :: forall x y z . SNat x -> SNat y -> SNat z -> N0 < y -> (x + (y * z)) / y :~: (x / y) + z |
2025-06-02 18:57:01 +0200 | <dolio> | Translating mathlib to Haskell is going to be very painful, I expect. |
2025-06-02 18:57:07 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | YES ! |
2025-06-02 18:57:22 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | comutativity and associativity is very painful |
2025-06-02 18:57:47 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | but it puts me in a zen state I guess |
2025-06-02 18:57:54 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 18:58:17 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 18:59:31 +0200 | <EvanR> | associativity was a mistake, lisp was right, just use gratuitous amount of parentheses |
2025-06-02 18:59:53 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | In proofs you have to move every single parenthesis manually... |
2025-06-02 19:00:14 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | (a + b) + c is not equial to a + (b + c) unless you use a proof of that... |
2025-06-02 19:00:49 +0200 | <Leary> | miguelnegrao: Suggestion: declare `pattern QED = Refl; (==>) = gcastWith; infixr 1 ==>` and write `p1 ==> p2 ==> p3 ==> QED`. |
2025-06-02 19:01:07 +0200 | internatetional | (~nate@2001:448a:20a3:c2e5:5e5:e8fb:73b6:1daa) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 19:01:19 +0200 | <miguelnegrao> | oh, I like that ! |
2025-06-02 19:01:25 +0200 | internatetional | (~nate@2001:448a:20a3:c2e5:5e5:e8fb:73b6:1daa) internatetional |
2025-06-02 19:02:18 +0200 | internatetional | (~nate@2001:448a:20a3:c2e5:5e5:e8fb:73b6:1daa) (Client Quit) |
2025-06-02 19:03:29 +0200 | miguelnegrao | (~miguelneg@2001:818:dc71:d100:97a9:f15a:6ac:fc9e) (Quit: Client closed) |
2025-06-02 19:03:40 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 19:04:06 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 19:04:43 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:7d34:d696:3458:218b) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
2025-06-02 19:06:19 +0200 | <ski> | hellwolf : i didn't bring up existentials. however, in logic, you often define `Not a = a -> Void' (`Void' being the false proposition (the nullary disjunction), having no proof, but having an elimination rule, with zero branches, in Haskell terms effectively `void :: Void -> a; void v = case v of {}'). however, if you don't use the elimination, you can replace `Void' with an arbitrary proposition `o' |
2025-06-02 19:06:25 +0200 | <ski> | (giving you "minimal logic", rather than "intuitionistic logic"), so instead of `Not (...)' you'd have `... -> o' |
2025-06-02 19:08:07 +0200 | orcus- | (~orcus@user/brprice) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
2025-06-02 19:08:08 +0200 | dispater- | (~dispater@user/brprice) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
2025-06-02 19:08:31 +0200 | <__monty__> | And that's because o *could* be Void? |
2025-06-02 19:09:51 +0200 | dispater- | (~dispater@user/brprice) brprice |
2025-06-02 19:10:22 +0200 | orcus- | (~orcus@user/brprice) brprice |
2025-06-02 19:10:55 +0200 | <EvanR> | because parametricity stops you from ever producing an o, Void or not |
2025-06-02 19:11:20 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 19:11:41 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 19:11:53 +0200 | <EvanR> | unless one of the hypotheses lets you, which in fact could let you produce a Void, hypothetically |
2025-06-02 19:13:26 +0200 | <ski> | the second two versions were replacing the function arrow `(->)' with a kleisli arrow `Kleisli m' (where `Kleisli m a b = a -> m b', and `m' is a monad) (although, categorically speaking, one should distinguish between a morphism/arrow `f : A >---> B' in a category (between two objects `A' and `B'), and an "internalization" of that as an object itself, commonly written as `B^A' (or perhaps `A -> B' or `A => |
2025-06-02 19:13:32 +0200 | <ski> | B') (e.g. currying being expressed as (for each object `A') collection of arrows `Gamma * A >---> B' being ("naturally", in objects `Gamma' and `B') equivalent to `Gamma >---> (A -> B)')) |
2025-06-02 19:13:42 +0200 | <EvanR> | (a -> o) -> a -> o |
2025-06-02 19:14:23 +0200 | <EvanR> | not (not a and a) |
2025-06-02 19:16:09 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 19:16:34 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 19:19:32 +0200 | <ski> | anyway, i used `M Void' for some particular monad `M', to express that a particular computation didn't terminate normally (.. more specifically, i was doing something like (cooperative) concurrency, and i wanted to express that a spawned thread eventually called `killThread :: M Void' at the end (or went on infinitely, or was partial) .. originally i used `()' instead of `Void', which resulted in a |
2025-06-02 19:19:38 +0200 | <ski> | sprinkling of `undefined's throughout the code, leaving me unsure whether i'd gotten it correct. swapping to the more conceptually correct `Void' allowed me to gain more confidence of the correctness, removing all the `undefined's) |
2025-06-02 19:20:09 +0200 | <ski> | @djinn-add type NotNot a = Not (Not a) |
2025-06-02 19:20:22 +0200 | <ski> | @djinn NotNot (Either a (Not a)) |
2025-06-02 19:20:22 +0200 | <lambdabot> | f a = void (a (Right (\ b -> a (Left b)))) |
2025-06-02 19:22:05 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 19:22:09 +0200 | <ski> | btw, Djinn is a bit overeager here, that `void' can be removed (replaced by `id') (it's using the instance `void @Void :: Void -> Void' of `void :: forall o. Void -> o') |
2025-06-02 19:22:30 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 19:24:44 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:7d34:d696:3458:218b) |
2025-06-02 19:24:48 +0200 | <ski> | (and because this doesn't need to use `void', it can be proved in minimal logic, with an arbitrary proposition `o' replacing `Void', so that `NotNot (Either a (Not a))' becomes `(Either a (a -> o) -> o) -> o') |
2025-06-02 19:24:54 +0200 | <ski> | @type let f a = a (Right (\ b -> a (Left b))) in f |
2025-06-02 19:24:55 +0200 | <lambdabot> | (Either a (a -> t) -> t) -> t |
2025-06-02 19:26:03 +0200 | <ski> | for comparision |
2025-06-02 19:26:06 +0200 | <ski> | @type let f a = absurd (a (Right (\ b -> a (Left b)))) in f |
2025-06-02 19:26:07 +0200 | <lambdabot> | (Either a1 (a1 -> Void) -> Void) -> a2 |
2025-06-02 19:27:42 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 19:28:06 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 19:28:35 +0200 | <ski> | (note that, for some silly reason, `void :: Functor f => f a -> f ()' is a library operation, name coming from FFI, so the corresponding operation we want to use from `Data.Void' was named `absurd' ..) |
2025-06-02 19:28:45 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
2025-06-02 19:29:00 +0200 | raym | (~ray@user/raym) raym |
2025-06-02 19:29:23 +0200 | sawilagar | (~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 19:29:31 +0200 | <EvanR> | so in your example of an action which doesn't return normally would you use o instead of Void |
2025-06-02 19:29:33 +0200 | <ski> | __monty__ : yea, that's one way to think about it |
2025-06-02 19:30:58 +0200 | <ski> | well, that could be used for `killThread :: M o', but for the spawn case, you'd need `spawnThread :: (forall o. M o) -> M ()' to replace `spawnThread :: M Void -> M ()' |
2025-06-02 19:31:30 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 19:33:23 +0200 | <ski> | (iirc, i was also pondering an operation `forkThread :: M Void -> M Void -> M Void' as well (forget whether i also provided that) .. which would then become `forkThread :: (forall o. M o) -> (forall p. M p) -> M q') |
2025-06-02 19:34:56 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 19:35:22 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 19:36:06 +0200 | <ski> | anyway, the rank-2 would perhaps feel a bit overkill. but i suppose one could replace `Void' in positive/covariant/output/producer position with `o', but not do any replacement in negative/contravariant/input/consumer position, so `forkThread :: M Void -> M Void -> M o' |
2025-06-02 19:37:48 +0200 | <ski> | @type (<*) |
2025-06-02 19:37:49 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Applicative f => f a -> f b -> f a |
2025-06-02 19:38:13 +0200 | <ski> | note how that uses `b' instead of `()', this is a similar thing |
2025-06-02 19:38:35 +0200 | <monochrom> | @type forever |
2025-06-02 19:38:36 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Applicative f => f a -> f b |
2025-06-02 19:39:42 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 19:40:03 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 19:40:30 +0200 | <EvanR> | forkThread :: M a -> M b -> M o ? |
2025-06-02 19:42:42 +0200 | <ski> | replacing `()' in input position with an arbitrary result (conceptually throwing away the result, replacing it with the empty tuple .. `()' (hand-waving) would correspond to terminal object, there's a unique arrow `const () : A >---> 1' for any object `A') .. while, i suppose, in output position, you'd want to use `exists r. ..r..' (note that for input position, `(exists r. ..r..) -> ...' is equivalent to |
2025-06-02 19:42:49 +0200 | <ski> | `forall r. (..r.. -> ...)', as in `forever :: Applicative f => (exists a. f a) -> f b') |
2025-06-02 19:42:53 +0200 | wootehfoot | (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) wootehfoot |
2025-06-02 19:43:18 +0200 | tzh | (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
2025-06-02 19:43:20 +0200 | shaeto | (~Shaeto@94.25.234.79) |
2025-06-02 19:43:49 +0200 | <ski> | so, yea, we "morally" have `forever :: Applicative f => f () -> f Void' (turn a (hopefully) terminating chunk of a computation into a non-terminating loop repeating that chunk) |
2025-06-02 19:44:53 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) bitdex |
2025-06-02 19:44:58 +0200 | <EvanR> | with laziness wouldn't f a -> f b possibly make sense even if the action "doesn't terminate" |
2025-06-02 19:45:09 +0200 | <ski> | EvanR : that would correspond to `forkThread :: M () -> M () -> M Void', which isn't what i wanted to express. i wanted both branches to end in `killThread' |
2025-06-02 19:45:29 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 19:45:47 +0200 | <EvanR> | it doesn't because a or b could be Void |
2025-06-02 19:45:52 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 19:45:58 +0200 | <EvanR> | it doesn't guarantee a result |
2025-06-02 19:46:12 +0200 | <EvanR> | like () "does" |
2025-06-02 19:47:05 +0200 | <ski> | basically, i had a `runM :: M Void -> IO ()', providing a "full program" (calling `killThread' at the end). and then you can issue `forkThread's while you keep on that "program spine". but in (non-tail) sub-computations, you could only introduce more threads by using `spawnThread' instead, which attaches a "full program" to a (normally terminating" "chunk" |
2025-06-02 19:47:20 +0200 | <monochrom> | f a -> f b still makes sense if the action non-terminates, or even if you set a=Void. |
2025-06-02 19:47:53 +0200 | <ski> | yep, but it doesn't require the `f a' to call `killThread' (or go into an infinite loop, or be partial) |
2025-06-02 19:48:20 +0200 | target_i | (~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) target_i |
2025-06-02 19:48:51 +0200 | <EvanR> | ok Void guarantees no result |
2025-06-02 19:49:04 +0200 | <monochrom> | Yeah forever is different from forkThread. |
2025-06-02 19:49:12 +0200 | <EvanR> | no results allowed |
2025-06-02 19:49:40 +0200 | <EvanR> | a type variable only guarantees you can't use the result if it exists |
2025-06-02 19:49:43 +0200 | <monochrom> | It is just not everyday that one wants a function that says "the input must be a non-terminating program!". |
2025-06-02 19:50:15 +0200 | <EvanR> | or is it |
2025-06-02 19:50:33 +0200 | <EvanR> | in game dev community "never let the game crash ever" |
2025-06-02 19:50:39 +0200 | <ski> | i maintained a scheduler queue of tasks |
2025-06-02 19:50:57 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 19:51:18 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 19:51:30 +0200 | <monochrom> | For games and OSes, you use forever. Only the outermost layer needs to be run forever. |
2025-06-02 19:51:47 +0200 | <ski> | `killThread' merely removed the currently executing task, switching to the next available one (or ending `runM', if empty queue now) |
2025-06-02 19:53:01 +0200 | <EvanR> | I guess most games, not on nintendo switch, come with a "quit to windows" (or DOS or whatever) menu option |
2025-06-02 19:53:18 +0200 | <EvanR> | which would cause the program to terminate |
2025-06-02 19:53:35 +0200 | <EvanR> | so input must be non terminating program is useful for nintendo switch games |
2025-06-02 19:53:45 +0200 | <ski> | and the continuation of `M Void' accepting a `Void' meant that it's effectively dead code, unreachable (ignoring bottoms, yes), so we can throw it away, without getting any surprises in the surface of the API |
2025-06-02 19:55:29 +0200 | <monochrom> | Oh, you just want to say "there is no continuation". |
2025-06-02 19:56:32 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 19:56:43 +0200 | <ski> | right |
2025-06-02 19:56:57 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 19:58:34 +0200 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell |
2025-06-02 20:00:40 +0200 | euphores | (~SASL_euph@user/euphores) (Quit: Leaving.) |
2025-06-02 20:02:19 +0200 | <ski> | dialogue I/O used `type Dialogue = [Response] -> [Request]' as it's "final answer" type of "full I/O programs" (seeming to correspond to `Void', or perhaps more `M Void' ?). instead of ending your `main :: Dialogue' with `end :: Dialogue; end _ = []', you'd pass a continuation (or several, in some cases), with `getChar :: (Char -> Dialogue) -> Dialogue' (iow `getChar :: Cont Dialogue Char') and `putChar :: |
2025-06-02 20:02:25 +0200 | <ski> | Char -> Dialogue -> Dialogue' (iow `putChar :: Char -> Cont Dialogue ()') as representative examples) |
2025-06-02 20:03:46 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 20:04:13 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 20:04:22 +0200 | <ski> | so typically instead of hard-wiring `end' at the end of every branch of your `main :: Dialogue', you could do `main = myMain end' where `myMain :: Dialogue -> Dialogue' (iow `myMain :: Cont Dialogue ()'), making more (normally terminating) operations easily composable |
2025-06-02 20:07:24 +0200 | <ski> | ("Modern Compiler Implementation in {ML,Java,C}" by Andrew W. Appel in 1998 at <https://www.cs.princeton.edu/~appel/modern/> also happens to use an `end : Answer' operation for a purely functional mini-language, including I/O operations, just treating `Answer' as abstract, as opposed to `Dialogue' above) |
2025-06-02 20:08:30 +0200 | <ski> | (oh, and it's a strict language, so the "backwards" request-response model wouldn't work like in early Haskell) |
2025-06-02 20:10:02 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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2025-06-02 20:33:03 +0200 | Everything | (~Everythin@77.120.244.38) Everything |
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2025-06-02 21:49:55 +0200 | sshine | (~simon@dao.mechanicus.xyz) sshine |
2025-06-02 21:50:20 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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2025-06-02 21:51:50 +0200 | <sshine> | there was a property test framework featured in Haskell Weekly recently. I can't find it, but it did something to improve on hedgehog. can anyone guess what package I'm looking for? it's not quickcheck-lockstep. |
2025-06-02 21:53:01 +0200 | sawilagar | (~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) sawilagar |
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2025-06-02 21:59:33 +0200 | Unhammer | (~Unhammer@user/unhammer) Unhammer |
2025-06-02 22:01:48 +0200 | <Unhammer> | Hi, after upgrading a thing from 9.2.8 to 9.6.7, on windows I'm seeing `[FreeTDS][SQL Server]Invalid "CP1252;LC_MONETARY=C;LC_NUMERIC=C;LC_TIME=C" character set specified` when opening a database connection. I'm not explicitly setting anything to CP1252 in my code (but I do Encoding.setLocaleEncoding Encoding.utf8 at the start of main). Did something change somewhere in how ghc sets locale strings? |
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2025-06-02 22:23:39 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 22:25:30 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 22:25:56 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 22:27:08 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
2025-06-02 22:33:19 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 22:33:43 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 22:37:31 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 22:39:59 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod |
2025-06-02 22:41:03 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 22:41:26 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 22:41:33 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | sshine: falsify? |
2025-06-02 22:41:42 +0200 | econo_ | (uid147250@id-147250.tinside.irccloud.com) |
2025-06-02 22:42:20 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-06-02 22:44:20 +0200 | target_i | (~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) (Quit: leaving) |
2025-06-02 22:45:12 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@hof1.kyla.fi) fp |
2025-06-02 22:45:12 +0200 | wootehfoot | (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 22:47:25 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 22:47:49 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 22:49:00 +0200 | jespada | (~jespada@r167-61-127-149.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-06-02 22:51:21 +0200 | jespada | (~jespada@r186-48-61-216.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) jespada |
2025-06-02 22:53:18 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 22:53:21 +0200 | jespada | (~jespada@r186-48-61-216.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Client Quit) |
2025-06-02 22:53:51 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 22:54:12 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 22:58:39 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
2025-06-02 22:59:55 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 23:00:19 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 23:01:13 +0200 | sawilagar | (~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
2025-06-02 23:01:32 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
2025-06-02 23:01:44 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-06-02 23:02:13 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
2025-06-02 23:06:34 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 23:06:57 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 23:07:20 +0200 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/Lycurgus) Lycurgus |
2025-06-02 23:09:06 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-06-02 23:10:30 +0200 | <Unhammer> | … it seems like I can append `;ClientCharset=CP1252` to my connstring to override whatever is going on there. Seems like some locale-related env-vars are being set differently in newer ghc, but I really don't understand why or where that would happen. |
2025-06-02 23:13:42 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-06-02 23:14:06 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
2025-06-02 23:14:24 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
2025-06-02 23:14:58 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@hof1.kyla.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |