2025/04/05

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2025-04-05 00:32:06 +0200tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:5ca9:4add:c07a:f3a) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2025-04-05 03:13:38 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-04-05 03:18:06 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) siracusa
2025-04-05 03:22:27 +0200Square2(~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-04-05 03:33:44 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> cheating feels good, or rather, being able to improve the algorithm slightly with replacement of quot (foo 3) bar /= quot (foo 4) bar with a slightly more efficient algorithm, although I guess I should track down Gordon to confirm that Debian benchmarks told us to screw ourselves :(
2025-04-05 03:38:01 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> anyone know if "ghc-lib-parser" provides a monad to construct "Settings" and "DynFlags"?
2025-04-05 03:38:16 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> from the local ghc environment
2025-04-05 03:40:03 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> lol it's ironic because Jeremy Gibbons published the original algorithm that pidigits is supposed to be based on
2025-04-05 03:40:06 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/people/jeremy.gibbons/publications/spigot.pdf
2025-04-05 03:40:10 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> that's the spec, hahahaha
2025-04-05 03:43:21 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> you can use "getSessionDynFlags" supposing "GhcMonad"
2025-04-05 03:57:56 +0200Feuermagier(~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) Feuermagier
2025-04-05 03:58:32 +0200tabemann(~tabemann@2600:1700:7990:24e0:eb48:5118:6a44:9814) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-04-05 03:58:35 +0200thuna`(~thuna`@user/thuna/x-1480069) thuna`
2025-04-05 03:58:56 +0200tabemann(~tabemann@2600:1700:7990:24e0:abb4:3ad0:1d9:d299)
2025-04-05 04:05:41 +0200toby-bro(~toby-bro@user/toby-bro) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-04-05 04:06:13 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> hm but "GhcMonad" needs the "ghc-lib" package which is sort of huge
2025-04-05 04:06:42 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> any other method to construct "Settings" and "DynFlags", other than manually filling out the fields?
2025-04-05 04:08:42 +0200forell(~forell@user/forell) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-04-05 04:09:00 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> thirdofmay18081814goya: you're also on matrix, you can try the matrix haskell channel as well
2025-04-05 04:09:49 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> will ask there too ty
2025-04-05 04:10:29 +0200cheater(~Username@user/cheater) cheater
2025-04-05 04:16:55 +0200 <monochrom> It should be pretty evident by now that even though converting (mod 7) to a faster multiplication and bitwise operations is well understood, it is not going to be a priority of GHC for the forseeable future. Instead, let use -fllvm and let LLVM do it.
2025-04-05 04:18:18 +0200 <monochrom> Applying very basic economics, you look at what reward people get for contributing to GHC, you see their priorities.
2025-04-05 04:19:20 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-04-05 04:19:31 +0200 <monochrom> So for example, some people get papers published for adding linear types to GHC, so they did. But no one gets papers published for using linear types to optimize code, so no one does.
2025-04-05 04:20:15 +0200 <monochrom> Not to mention the too-little-too-late :doc commands.
2025-04-05 04:22:20 +0200gabiruh_(~gabiruh@vps19177.publiccloud.com.br) gabiruh
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2025-04-05 06:59:11 +0200Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) Unicorn_Princess
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2025-04-05 09:00:49 +0200JamesMowery17(~JamesMowe@ip68-228-212-232.ph.ph.cox.net) JamesMowery
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2025-04-05 09:45:04 +0200acidjnk_new3(~acidjnk@p200300d6e71c4f09082661686fc91abe.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
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2025-04-05 10:48:37 +0200lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) lxsameer
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2025-04-05 10:56:01 +0200mud(~mud@user/kadoban) kadoban
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2025-04-05 11:00:14 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) toonn
2025-04-05 11:05:36 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-04-05 11:10:21 +0200acidjnk_new3(~acidjnk@p200300d6e71c4f092d86e29bd2672a66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2025-04-05 11:11:05 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
2025-04-05 11:14:34 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Tuplanolla
2025-04-05 11:15:18 +0200hattckory(~hattckory@bras-base-toroon4524w-grc-30-70-27-118-207.dsl.bell.ca)
2025-04-05 11:16:30 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-04-05 11:21:13 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-04-05 11:28:14 +0200JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: praxis.meansofproduction.biz (juan@acm.org))
2025-04-05 11:29:40 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> hmmm, curious, has anyone reported issues with ccall ffi?
2025-04-05 11:30:04 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/program/pidigits-ghc-5.html
2025-04-05 11:30:24 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> performance here has completely collapsed since a couple of recent benchmarking exercises, probably because of a change in ccal ffi
2025-04-05 11:30:41 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> I swapped it to Capi, and performance is back, currently about...
2025-04-05 11:30:56 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> 110% of C
2025-04-05 11:32:16 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-04-05 11:41:39 +0200koz(~koz@121.99.240.58) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-04-05 11:46:50 +0200koz(~koz@121.99.240.58)
2025-04-05 11:53:24 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> in terms of time
2025-04-05 11:56:11 +0200acidjnk_new3(~acidjnk@p200300d6e71c4f092d86e29bd2672a66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-04-05 11:59:22 +0200Digitteknohippie(~user@user/digit) Digit
2025-04-05 12:00:36 +0200Digit(~user@user/digit) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-04-05 12:05:14 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) wootehfoot
2025-04-05 12:14:08 +0200Digitteknohippie(~user@user/digit) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-04-05 12:14:54 +0200thuna`(~thuna`@user/thuna/x-1480069) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-04-05 12:16:45 +0200hattckory(~hattckory@bras-base-toroon4524w-grc-30-70-27-118-207.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-04-05 12:23:25 +0200cyphase(~cyphase@user/cyphase) cyphase
2025-04-05 12:24:14 +0200 <__monty__> Bigger is better, so beating C already, nice : D
2025-04-05 12:27:15 +0200 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> I think they meant 110% time, so 90% performance?
2025-04-05 12:27:20 +0200 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Or smth like that
2025-04-05 12:28:19 +0200tremon(~tremon@83.80.159.219) tremon
2025-04-05 12:32:00 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> yeah
2025-04-05 12:32:28 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> now i'm trying to figure out why, in haskell, using divMod is an optimization, but in C, using tdiv_qr is not
2025-04-05 12:32:46 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> because even with tdiv_qr on a junk variable, it's still increasing times by 30%
2025-04-05 12:34:57 +0200 <__monty__> Probably Haskell's div is just `fst . divMod` while in C the backing algorithm somehow shortcuts not needing an accurate remainder or the other way around, whatever.
2025-04-05 12:35:21 +0200 <__monty__> (I was joking about the bigger is better, FYI.)
2025-04-05 12:38:09 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> this is really, really weird, because the C isn't that much faster, 315 ms vs 430-480 ms on haskell
2025-04-05 12:39:58 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-04-05 12:47:43 +0200hattckory(~hattckory@70.27.118.207)
2025-04-05 12:49:05 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> i guess the real question is, why is Haskell efficient on bigint if it's using gmp as a backend, but gmp itself isn't?
2025-04-05 12:50:34 +0200digitteknohippie(~user@user/digit) Digit
2025-04-05 12:51:45 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-04-05 12:52:39 +0200hattckory(~hattckory@70.27.118.207) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-04-05 12:53:01 +0200digitteknohippieDigit
2025-04-05 12:56:56 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Morj> There are a lot of ways to use gmp. There are several rust wrappers around it, and the performance can differ 5 times
2025-04-05 12:57:22 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Morj> I haven't dug deeper yet, even when making this rust thing go faster is literally my day job >_>
2025-04-05 12:58:43 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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2025-04-05 13:01:50 +0200internatetional(~nate@2001:448a:20a3:c2e5:73ee:b330:880d:2daa) internatetional
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2025-04-05 13:02:22 +0200caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
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2025-04-05 13:18:04 +0200internatetional_(~nate@2001:448a:20a3:c2e5:2654:9c7d:282c:a56a) internatetional
2025-04-05 13:21:20 +0200internatetional(~nate@2400:9800:320:db5f:1:0:1913:8d11) internatetional
2025-04-05 13:23:13 +0200hattckory(~hattckory@bras-base-toroon4524w-grc-30-70-27-118-207.dsl.bell.ca)
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2025-04-05 13:24:51 +0200internatetional_(~nate@2001:448a:20a3:c2e5:2654:9c7d:282c:a56a) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-04-05 13:25:29 +0200forell(~forell@user/forell) forell
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2025-04-05 13:28:44 +0200vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal
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2025-04-05 13:36:17 +0200hattckory(~hattckory@bras-base-toroon4524w-grc-30-70-27-118-207.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-04-05 13:43:23 +0200 <Angelz> hi lambdabot.
2025-04-05 13:45:03 +0200Angelzgadot
2025-04-05 13:52:37 +0200hattckory(~hattckory@70.27.118.207)
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2025-04-05 13:55:38 +0200acidjnk_new3(~acidjnk@p200300d6e71c4f09a45abb10e29fc466.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2025-04-05 13:59:09 +0200rit(~rit@2409:40e0:1c:121c:8974:a096:1a7b:cd3b)
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2025-04-05 14:44:59 +0200Square2(~Square@user/square) Square
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2025-04-05 14:47:21 +0200L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) ()
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2025-04-05 14:51:49 +0200Digitteknohippie(~user@user/digit) Digit
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2025-04-05 15:21:45 +0200internatetional(~nate@2400:9800:322:960e:1:0:1981:db59) internatetional
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2025-04-05 15:36:13 +0200notdabs(~Owner@2600:1700:69cf:9000:58e6:6428:d346:1de6)
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2025-04-05 15:43:25 +0200toby-bro(~toby-bro@user/toby-bro) toby-bro
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2025-04-05 15:56:49 +0200DigitteknohippieDigit
2025-04-05 15:58:11 +0200jespada(~jespada@r186-49-242-220.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) jespada
2025-04-05 16:01:00 +0200hattckory(~hattckory@bras-base-toroon4524w-grc-30-70-27-118-207.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-04-05 16:01:34 +0200tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:80ac:965e:288a:e7e3) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2025-04-05 16:09:28 +0200internatetional(~nate@2001:448a:20a3:c2e5:de63:cea6:2301:accc) internatetional
2025-04-05 16:22:35 +0200inca(~inca@190.sub-174-226-85.myvzw.com)
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2025-04-05 16:32:38 +0200L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah
2025-04-05 16:42:46 +0200jespada(~jespada@r186-49-242-220.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-04-05 16:43:01 +0200 <hellwolf> hlint suggested me to use mapAndUnzipM. I had never known it existed. And why would there be a specialized function for such a thing..
2025-04-05 16:43:18 +0200 <hellwolf> Per base code: "mapAndUnzipM f xs = unzip <$> traverse f xs"
2025-04-05 16:47:46 +0200jespada(~jespada@r186-49-242-220.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) jespada
2025-04-05 16:48:15 +0200tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:80ac:965e:288a:e7e3) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-04-05 16:50:08 +0200internatetional_(~nate@2001:448a:20a3:c2e5:605b:9669:a8fc:b9c5) internatetional
2025-04-05 16:53:32 +0200 <tomsmeding> why can ghc not "just" understand that pattern matching interacts with apartness
2025-04-05 16:53:43 +0200internatetional(~nate@2001:448a:20a3:c2e5:de63:cea6:2301:accc) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-04-05 16:54:18 +0200 <hellwolf> hmm?
2025-04-05 16:55:11 +0200 <tomsmeding> which GHC developer should I pay to have GHC accept this code https://play.haskell.org/saved/HYLMVGG5
2025-04-05 16:55:29 +0200 <tomsmeding> the fact that the pattern match on SA failed _means_ that `tag` is not A
2025-04-05 16:55:47 +0200 <tomsmeding> yes this involves inspecting the GADT for certain properties that make this work
2025-04-05 16:55:51 +0200 <tomsmeding> no I don't care, I want this
2025-04-05 16:55:52 +0200 <merijn> tomsmeding: I don't see GADTs enabled?
2025-04-05 16:56:17 +0200 <tomsmeding> merijn: implied by TypeFamilies
2025-04-05 16:56:30 +0200 <tomsmeding> it doesn't
2025-04-05 16:56:51 +0200 <tomsmeding> I dunno, but GHC's behaviour doesn't change if I enable GADTs
2025-04-05 16:58:40 +0200 <ski> i wonder whether you could do that, with polymorphic variants, and GADTs, in OCaml ..
2025-04-05 16:59:06 +0200 <ski> (.. i'd suspect GADTs there only apply to the regular variants, though)
2025-04-05 16:59:28 +0200 <tomsmeding> now I have to write stupid stuff like this https://paste.tomsmeding.com/2iMHvceB
2025-04-05 17:05:13 +0200tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:44a6:f61b:e8c3:9514)
2025-04-05 17:08:15 +0200 <hellwolf> I guess you need to provide some injectivity proof. However, your Split cannot be injective by the current typefamilydependencies rules.
2025-04-05 17:10:02 +0200 <tomsmeding> yes, it's not quite injectivity, it's more subtle
2025-04-05 17:11:31 +0200 <tomsmeding> I guess the logic could be: all tag constructors that only appear in GADT constructors that you've already fully pattern-matched away, are apart from the tag in the thing you're now matching
2025-04-05 17:11:37 +0200 <tomsmeding> this would be sufficient for me
2025-04-05 17:11:48 +0200 <tomsmeding> and I guess this should apply to every type parameter of the GADT individually
2025-04-05 17:14:13 +0200euphores(~SASL_euph@user/euphores) (Quit: Leaving.)
2025-04-05 17:17:11 +0200 <hellwolf> have you tried FunDep? I think TF and FunDep has a few places that don't share the same capability
2025-04-05 17:17:29 +0200 <hellwolf> let me give it a quick try