2026/05/02

2026-05-02 00:00:10 +0000koraynilay(~koraynila@user/koraynilay) koraynilay
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2026-05-02 00:10:02 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2026-05-02 00:46:38 +0000_\_(~o@user/offon) (Quit: ___)
2026-05-02 00:47:05 +0000_\_(~o@user/offon) offon
2026-05-02 00:53:54 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-05-02 00:54:30 +0000LdyIQ(~SaintGena@user/SaintGenavieve) SaintGenavieve
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2026-05-02 01:42:27 +0000pyook(~puke@user/puke) puke
2026-05-02 01:42:27 +0000pukeGuest8083
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2026-05-02 02:00:02 +0000Flow(~none@gentoo/developer/flow) (Quit: WeeChat 4.7.2)
2026-05-02 02:01:09 +0000Flow(~none@gentoo/developer/flow) flow
2026-05-02 02:02:52 +0000jmcantrell_(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
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2026-05-02 02:08:39 +0000Googulator81(~Googulato@84-236-65-50.pool.digikabel.hu)
2026-05-02 02:09:38 +0000 <LdyIQ> do algebraic data types in haskell fundamentally model combinatorics?
2026-05-02 02:11:01 +0000jmcantrell_jmcantrell
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2026-05-02 02:17:34 +0000jkoshy(99b9359beb@user/jkoshy) jkoshy
2026-05-02 02:19:21 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2026-05-02 02:50:46 +0000Katarushisu66Katarushisu6
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2026-05-02 03:34:22 +0000Pozyomka(~pyon@user/pyon) (Quit: Fuck udev, fuck logind, fuck everything!!!)
2026-05-02 03:37:25 +0000Pozyomka(~pyon@user/pyon) pyon
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2026-05-02 03:39:20 +0000jmcantrell_(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
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2026-05-02 04:05:45 +0000karenw(~karenw@user/karenw) karenw
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2026-05-02 04:22:45 +0000ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) ChaiTRex
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2026-05-02 04:26:44 +0000acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e700e502cdc9d306f6c67f69.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2026-05-02 04:33:21 +0000 <monochrom> If you have heard of "free" and know what it means, then algebraic data types model free structures in combinatorics, e.g., sequences and trees. However, "clearly", they don't model non-free, quotiented-out structures such as combinations and permutations.
2026-05-02 04:34:46 +0000monochrom(~trebla@216.138.220.146) (Quit: ZNC 1.9.1+deb2build5 - https://znc.in)
2026-05-02 04:38:32 +0000monochrom(~trebla@216.138.220.146) monochrom
2026-05-02 04:39:24 +0000takuan(~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be)
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2026-05-02 04:56:38 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-05-02 04:56:45 +0000 <LdyIQ> monochrom, huh? free structures model combinatorics all the time
2026-05-02 04:56:55 +0000 <LdyIQ> that's like the basis for a lot of algebraic geometry
2026-05-02 04:58:06 +0000 <EvanR> monads for nothing and theorems for free
2026-05-02 05:00:52 +0000 <LdyIQ> also permutations are super basic that's just a permutation group
2026-05-02 05:01:50 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2026-05-02 05:10:38 +0000Eoco(~ian@128.101.131.218) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2026-05-02 05:13:11 +0000Eoco(~ian@128.101.131.218) Eoco
2026-05-02 05:19:32 +0000alhazrod(uid662262@user/alhazrod) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2026-05-02 05:21:48 +0000bkani(~bkani@user/bkani) bkani
2026-05-02 05:23:29 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d172-219-48-230.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2026-05-02 05:25:30 +0000 <gentauro> % :t mconcat
2026-05-02 05:25:30 +0000 <yahb2> Oops, something went wrong
2026-05-02 05:25:39 +0000 <gentauro> % :i mconcat
2026-05-02 05:25:39 +0000 <yahb2> type Monoid :: * -> Constraint ; class Semigroup a => Monoid a where ; ... ; mconcat :: [a] -> a ; -- Defined in ‘GHC.Internal.Base’
2026-05-02 05:25:54 +0000bkani(~bkani@user/bkani) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-05-02 05:26:32 +0000 <gentauro> janus: if I already defined a Monoid, I can use this instead of `fold` if I just want to perform the binary op the types placed in a list
2026-05-02 05:31:14 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2026-05-02 05:37:54 +0000craunts795335385(~craunts@152.32.100.66)
2026-05-02 05:38:35 +0000puke(~puke@user/puke) (Quit: puke)
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2026-05-02 05:46:57 +0000puke(~puke@user/puke) puke
2026-05-02 05:47:17 +0000 <mesaoptimizer> is scotty the current recommended web server for serving a backend?
2026-05-02 05:47:35 +0000alter2000(~alter2000@user/alter2000) alter2000
2026-05-02 05:47:58 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-05-02 05:52:21 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2026-05-02 05:52:48 +0000 <mesaoptimizer> oh, waaaaaaaaaai and servant exist
2026-05-02 06:06:02 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-05-02 06:06:19 +0000tusko(~uwu@user/tusko) tusko
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2026-05-02 06:23:06 +0000connrs(~connrs@user/connrs) (Remote host closed the connection)
2026-05-02 06:23:13 +0000connrs(~connrs@user/connrs) connrs
2026-05-02 06:25:08 +0000LdyIQ(~SaintGena@user/SaintGenavieve) (Quit: Leaving)
2026-05-02 06:30:16 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2026-05-02 06:35:12 +0000 <[exa]> mesaoptimizer: depends on the amount of advanced stuff you need to push in
2026-05-02 06:37:07 +0000tusko(~uwu@user/tusko) tusko
2026-05-02 06:38:02 +0000 <[exa]> API complexity is over the roof=> servant, you need something that doesn't behave like rest/crud/website at all=> wai, all other cases=> scotty/spock
2026-05-02 06:38:41 +0000 <mesaoptimizer> I'm using servant and lucid2
2026-05-02 06:39:41 +0000 <mesaoptimizer> lucid2 for HTML and HTMX, servant because type safe DSL sounds nice
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2026-05-02 07:46:57 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> yesod
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2026-05-02 08:50:31 +0000YuutaW(~YuutaW@infornography.yta.moe) YuutaW
2026-05-02 08:50:51 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-05-02 08:52:44 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) ()
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2026-05-02 09:06:35 +0000chromoblob(~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0
2026-05-02 09:08:21 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2026-05-02 09:23:36 +0000YuutaW(~YuutaW@infornography.yta.moe) YuutaW
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2026-05-02 10:00:06 +0000DetourNetworkUK(~DetourNet@user/DetourNetworkUK) DetourNetworkUK
2026-05-02 10:04:09 +0000tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:987d:e7a7:d267:ed7)
2026-05-02 10:04:11 +0000target_i(~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) target_i
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2026-05-02 10:11:08 +0000 <mesaoptimizer> isn't that a Snoyman library with a lot of Template Haskell
2026-05-02 10:11:15 +0000m(~travltux@user/travltux) travltux
2026-05-02 10:11:38 +0000 <mesaoptimizer> I intended to put off using something like that until I felt comfortable with TH
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2026-05-02 10:21:31 +0000 <haskellbridge> <ijouw> You don't technically need to know TH to use it. If i remember correctly the yesod template has usage examples, mostly parse this html-like file, this database specification and include this resources directory. Now that i think about it, that really is a lot of TH.
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2026-05-02 12:46:13 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2026-05-02 12:52:44 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> ugh, sometimes i'm really disappointed
2026-05-02 12:52:57 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> i found Chinese / Indian Haskell support for like 20-30 bucks an hour
2026-05-02 12:53:09 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> what they're telling me to do is just to steal libraries and stuff
2026-05-02 12:53:41 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> whereas i'm building my own authn authz system, already refactored 2 times, once from naive IO single main, to reader, to readerT
2026-05-02 12:54:30 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> half of a mind to just refactor from twain - postgresql-simple to servant - hasql / rel8
2026-05-02 12:55:38 +0000leppard(~noOne@ipservice-092-208-182-236.092.208.pools.vodafone-ip.de) Inline
2026-05-02 12:56:32 +0000tnt1(~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Remote host closed the connection)
2026-05-02 12:58:30 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> erm, from naive IO single main to multi-module reader, to readerT, as the code got too complex to easily comprehend
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2026-05-02 14:42:43 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
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2026-05-02 16:06:18 +0000mrmonday(~robert@what.i.hope.is.not.a.tabernaevagant.es) mrmonday
2026-05-02 16:11:31 +0000 <monochrom> Not much to expect for $30 per hour.
2026-05-02 16:13:14 +0000jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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2026-05-02 16:26:23 +0000gentauro«…Liamzee> i found Chinese / Indian Haskell support for like 20-30 bucks an hour»
2026-05-02 16:26:37 +0000 <gentauro> Liamzee: you know they are just asking an AI right?
2026-05-02 16:26:52 +0000chromoblob(~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0
2026-05-02 16:29:14 +0000tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:987d:e7a7:d267:ed7) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2026-05-02 16:32:44 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2026-05-02 16:33:05 +0000Digit(~user@user/digit) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2026-05-02 16:33:47 +0000Digitteknohippie(~user@user/digit) Digit
2026-05-02 16:39:55 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2026-05-02 16:40:21 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d172-219-48-230.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2026-05-02 16:45:28 +0000chromoblobwaiting for the day Haskell can cure mental diseases, e.g. schizophrenia
2026-05-02 16:47:31 +0000andreas303(andreas303@is.drunk.and.ready-to.party) andreas303
2026-05-02 16:50:57 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2026-05-02 16:57:11 +0000gf31(~gf3@user/gf3) gf3
2026-05-02 17:01:37 +0000 <monochrom> 30 bucks is insulting. They are right to cut corners left right and centre, cheat and plagiarize and AI.
2026-05-02 17:02:19 +0000 <monochrom> If you paid edwardk 200 bucks per hour and he used AI, that's when you would be right to complain!
2026-05-02 17:06:13 +0000tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:987d:e7a7:d267:ed7)
2026-05-02 17:06:52 +0000internatetional(~nate@2404:c0:244b:5991:18ab:caf3:80f7:8c14) internatetional
2026-05-02 17:16:01 +0000tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:987d:e7a7:d267:ed7) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2026-05-02 17:17:48 +0000DigitteknohippieDigit
2026-05-02 17:18:57 +0000tabaqui(~tabaqui@167.71.80.236) tabaqui
2026-05-02 17:19:03 +0000misterfish(~misterfis@84.53.85.146) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2026-05-02 17:19:23 +0000 <gentauro> monochrom: I've been interacting with a person from an asiatik country (working very VERY late) for a way smaller amount than that. And yes, the person vibe coded in Python and had NO clue what their where doing
2026-05-02 17:19:31 +0000internatetional_(~nate@180.243.9.18) internatetional
2026-05-02 17:20:22 +0000gentauroit's a (upper) management decision so nothing to do … well besides quit (raise champagne glass) ;)
2026-05-02 17:20:45 +0000misterfish(~misterfis@84.53.85.146) misterfish
2026-05-02 17:21:18 +0000internatetional(~nate@2404:c0:244b:5991:18ab:caf3:80f7:8c14) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-05-02 17:21:22 +0000 <monochrom> That's the flip side I've been waiting for a chance to say. Not much to expect from management types either! :)
2026-05-02 17:21:33 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> mesaoptimizer it's the most well-rounded general-purpose web framework in haskell. Works very well.
2026-05-02 17:23:33 +0000 <gentauro> monochrom: somebody is "forcing their hand" tbh (hire "locally" or outsource to cheap + AI) -> https://www.globalimmigrationblog.com/2025/12/federal-court-upholds-trump-administration-100000-fe…
2026-05-02 17:24:03 +0000 <gentauro> anyway, this topic should most likely be moved to #haskell-offtop
2026-05-02 17:28:24 +0000tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) tzh
2026-05-02 17:29:14 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
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2026-05-02 17:46:22 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> gentauro: I got bored and paid someone $100 to contribute to PostGrest, and they got caught using AI.
2026-05-02 17:46:32 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> That was a UG at $10 an hour, and I immediately smelled AI
2026-05-02 17:46:40 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> beautiful code though!
2026-05-02 17:47:56 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> But CS wages are lower in China and India, average dev (not rockstar) is pulling in like 30-40k a year. Haskell back in 2019 was pulling in 20k a year (back when average wages were even lower)
2026-05-02 17:49:05 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> Also, I am now auditing my code with Claude, and I'm discovering that claims that Claude was a genius at Haskell are evidently false. Claude, besides being extremely prone to BS and deception, even among other LLMs, didn't understand how Hasql and resource-pool worked.
2026-05-02 17:50:18 +0000 <gentauro> Liamzee: whenever I see Haskell, Elm, PureScript code made by AI's, I just want to "poke my eyes out" (not kidding)
2026-05-02 17:50:34 +0000r1bilski(~r1bilski@user/r1bilski) (Remote host closed the connection)
2026-05-02 17:50:44 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> I'm trying the model of, build the backend in Haskell, have AI produce the frontend in Next.js
2026-05-02 17:50:51 +0000r1bilski(~r1bilski@user-46-112-240-248.play-internet.pl)
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2026-05-02 17:50:55 +0000 <glguy> That's an unhealthy urge; you should resist it.
2026-05-02 17:50:58 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> with the assumption that the AI secretly wants to kill me (It's not that hard to get Claude to admit that)
2026-05-02 17:51:32 +0000 <gentauro> I recall Kris Jenkins had a really cool project that mapped Haskell domains back and forth with Elm -> https://www.developervoices.com/ (this Kris)
2026-05-02 17:51:42 +0000 <gentauro> but is Elm still alive?
2026-05-02 17:51:52 +0000 <gentauro> it hasn't been touched in the last 7 years :(
2026-05-02 17:52:22 +0000 <monochrom> One point raised by Looking Glass Universe on youtube: free-tier Claude is very different from top-paid-tier Claude. Decades ago we talked of a Digital Divide just for the Internet. I think we are soon looking at the next one.
2026-05-02 17:52:51 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> I just swapped to Opus 4.7 and it's Opus 4.7 screwing me
2026-05-02 17:53:23 +0000 <gentauro> monochrom: "vibe coding" vs "prompt engineering" (yes, you have to put in the effort to get what you want) makes a HUGE diff when you use AI
2026-05-02 17:53:41 +0000 <monochrom> Yes that too.
2026-05-02 17:54:39 +0000 <gentauro> tbh, I don't mind reading PE code. However, there is not enough money in this world for me to read VC
2026-05-02 17:55:05 +0000 <monochrom> Everyone, green or experienced, forgets that the only reason why the experienced has such much success with LLMs is that the experienced know how to do it themselves so they know what to say to LLMs.
2026-05-02 17:55:45 +0000 <monochrom> But what's new? Success stories are written by the victors!
2026-05-02 17:57:15 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> thanks for being both accurate and gentle, monochrom
2026-05-02 17:57:25 +0000 <gentauro> I somehow got OG code (C++) for a old school game (long story). I would really like to tell a LLM -> "see this (C++) and this (Elm), now go make me a web SPA" xD
2026-05-02 17:58:58 +0000gentauroit seems possible -> https://banteg.xyz/posts/crimsonland/
2026-05-02 18:00:30 +0000 <mra> having just learned about reader monads the other day, these are awesome! i rewrote my whole lambda calculus interpreter using them, and it's crazy how much more readable (heh) it is
2026-05-02 18:01:46 +0000 <monochrom> Yes it's great for modeling the var->val environment. Some people call it the environment monad.
2026-05-02 18:02:26 +0000r1bilski(~r1bilski@user/r1bilski) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2026-05-02 18:02:39 +0000 <monochrom> And many web apps are ReaderT (IORef X, IORef Y, ...) IO.
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2026-05-02 18:08:50 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah
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2026-05-02 18:20:21 +0000 <EvanR> I'm disappointed looking glass universe isn't doing physics videos, was much more interesting than AI
2026-05-02 18:24:29 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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2026-05-02 18:26:05 +0000 <monochrom> Yeah. But I can get physics from other channels. But I believe that her analysis of AI will be uniquely valuable: She is going to science the sh*t out of it, unlike the rest of us who only echo either the hype or the anecdotes.
2026-05-02 18:27:26 +0000 <gentauro> the last video, why aren't they adding the "Sponsored by Anthropic"? Did Google stop doing that?
2026-05-02 18:28:02 +0000 <monochrom> To be fair, that's what she promised, she hasn't started posting. We will have to see!
2026-05-02 18:29:57 +0000 <EvanR> gentauro, re: elm. Maybe it's just "finished" ? xD
2026-05-02 18:30:20 +0000 <EvanR> the pythagorean theorem also hasn't been updated in millennia but it still works
2026-05-02 18:30:38 +0000 <monochrom> Yeah it's not like "let's add TypeInType to Elm" like GHC did. :)
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2026-05-02 18:31:50 +0000 <gentauro> I mean, they already "recruited" the guy who made "local LLM's" possible for the masses (Apple devices) -> https://awnihannun.com/
2026-05-02 18:32:36 +0000 <gentauro> before when Awni was at Apple he was all "local first …" and then he suddently begin to say "cloud …"
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2026-05-02 18:32:58 +0000gentauroif you can't beat them, "pay them out" to make them "join you"
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2026-05-02 23:18:48 +0000 <mesaoptimizer> sm: yesod is that good? inteersting, I might look into it for a next project
2026-05-02 23:19:13 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> yes
2026-05-02 23:20:06 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> it's the only one with a pretty good book, eg
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2026-05-02 23:43:26 +0000humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect
2026-05-02 23:44:07 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2026-05-02 23:45:30 +0000hiredman(~hiredman@frontier1.downey.family) (Remote host closed the connection)
2026-05-02 23:56:26 +0000arandombit(~arandombi@2a02:2455:8656:7100:3db5:1eb8:52cf:6e29)
2026-05-02 23:56:26 +0000arandombit(~arandombi@2a02:2455:8656:7100:3db5:1eb8:52cf:6e29) (Changing host)
2026-05-02 23:56:26 +0000arandombit(~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit
2026-05-02 23:56:35 +0000merijn(~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn