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2025-05-05 00:29:49 +0000haskellbridgeshapr stretches a monad to check its tensor strength
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2025-05-05 00:33:59 +0000 <monochrom> haha
2025-05-05 00:35:31 +0000califax(~califax@user/califx) califx
2025-05-05 00:36:01 +0000Tikosh(~Tikosh@user/Tikosh) Tikosh
2025-05-05 00:36:58 +0000tolgo(~Thunderbi@199.115.144.130) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-05 00:37:01 +0000 <Tikosh> I have taffybar and am attempting to put a battery widget on my taffybar with no luck. does anyone know any documentation or know how to make a battery widget for taffybar?
2025-05-05 00:39:10 +0000 <geekosaur> there's a slight chance you'll do better asking in #xmonad, fwiw
2025-05-05 00:39:48 +0000 <Tikosh> alright! thanks
2025-05-05 00:39:57 +0000Tikosh(~Tikosh@user/Tikosh) ()
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2025-05-05 02:33:39 +0000droideqa(uid499291@user/droideqa) droideqa
2025-05-05 02:53:31 +0000Square2(~Square4@user/square) Square
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2025-05-05 03:21:49 +0000jmcantrell_(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
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2025-05-05 03:37:09 +0000jmcantrell_(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) ()
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2025-05-05 04:21:39 +0000jmcantrell(644f1bed9a@user/jmcantrell) ()
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2025-05-05 04:24:13 +0000dibblego(~dibblego@116-255-1-119.ip4.superloop.au)
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2025-05-05 04:24:13 +0000dibblego(~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego) dibblego
2025-05-05 04:28:22 +0000 <Square2> A 3rd party dependency requires me to use https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.16.3.0/docs/Numeric-Natural.html
2025-05-05 04:28:55 +0000 <Square2> Sadly there are dead links to source and the "NS" constructor they link
2025-05-05 04:29:56 +0000 <Square2> Anyone know what's up with that?
2025-05-05 04:32:36 +0000 <EvanR> I was about to pull up the source another way
2025-05-05 04:33:28 +0000 <EvanR> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghc-bignum-1.2/docs/src/GHC.Num.Natural.html#Natural
2025-05-05 04:34:20 +0000 <EvanR> which is where it seemed to want to go but the haddocks had weird urls
2025-05-05 04:35:57 +0000 <EvanR> (I wonder if it was unintentional for WORD_MAXBOUND in the doc comment to be preprocessed)
2025-05-05 04:36:08 +0000 <Square2> Thanks. I seemed to get past the hurdle
2025-05-05 04:36:31 +0000 <Square2> ghci let me create one with "123 :: Natural"
2025-05-05 04:36:56 +0000 <Square2> ...and hopefully I'll get by with some fromInteger/toInteger hackery in my code. =D
2025-05-05 04:38:01 +0000user363627(~user@user/user363627) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2025-05-05 04:38:02 +0000 <EvanR> > fromInteger 123 :: Natural
2025-05-05 04:38:04 +0000 <lambdabot> error:
2025-05-05 04:38:04 +0000 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘Natural’
2025-05-05 04:38:09 +0000 <EvanR> :(
2025-05-05 04:38:18 +0000 <monochrom> yahb2 probably has it.
2025-05-05 04:38:19 +0000user363627(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2025-05-05 04:38:21 +0000 <EvanR> @let import Data.Natural
2025-05-05 04:38:21 +0000 <lambdabot> /sandbox/tmp/.L.hs:110:1: error:
2025-05-05 04:38:21 +0000 <lambdabot> Could not find module ‘Data.Natural’
2025-05-05 04:38:21 +0000 <lambdabot> Use -v (or `:set -v` in ghci) to see a list of the files searched for.
2025-05-05 04:38:24 +0000jmcantrell_(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-05-05 04:38:32 +0000jmcantrell_jmcantrell
2025-05-05 04:38:35 +0000 <monochrom> Numeric.Natural
2025-05-05 04:38:39 +0000 <EvanR> @let import Numeric.Natural
2025-05-05 04:38:40 +0000 <lambdabot> Defined.
2025-05-05 04:38:44 +0000 <EvanR> > fromInteger 123 :: Natural
2025-05-05 04:38:45 +0000 <lambdabot> 123
2025-05-05 04:38:50 +0000 <EvanR> > fromInteger (-123) :: Natural
2025-05-05 04:38:51 +0000 <lambdabot> *Exception: arithmetic underflow
2025-05-05 04:39:16 +0000 <EvanR> error: unnatural
2025-05-05 04:44:36 +0000 <EvanR> :t naturalBit
2025-05-05 04:44:37 +0000 <lambdabot> error: Variable not in scope: naturalBit
2025-05-05 04:46:44 +0000 <EvanR> if ghc-bignum is a dependency of base and every program has base as a dependency does that mean every program depends on ghc-bignum
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2025-05-05 05:02:18 +0000 <probie> EvanR: Programs which depend on an old enough version of base certainly don't depend on ghc-bignum
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2025-05-05 05:41:04 +0000natto17(~natto@129.154.243.159) natto
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2025-05-05 05:46:37 +0000 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> monochrom: no, just an alias to (,)
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2025-05-05 05:49:28 +0000 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> EvanR: after some sleep, and the correct constructors of curry and apply. I basically come up with the solution for both cofegen and emulation the ways you and tom was trying to teach me :)
2025-05-05 05:49:30 +0000 <haskellbridge> on hindsight, it's trivial really. But neat.
2025-05-05 05:50:24 +0000 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> I had to just learn and stumble on my own
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2025-05-05 06:07:46 +0000CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen
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2025-05-05 06:58:07 +0000 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: best way to learn
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2025-05-05 07:22:46 +0000Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life
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2025-05-05 07:24:10 +0000Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
2025-05-05 07:32:14 +0000 <hellwolf> "stealing lambda," instead of reimplementing may be what describes what I am really doing. I created a bridge between haskell and other target language. The bridge is categrical and simple to interpret.
2025-05-05 07:33:06 +0000 <tomsmeding> you're mapping the exponential object in your source category to the exponential object in your target category (Hask)
2025-05-05 07:33:10 +0000Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-05 07:33:10 +0000 <tomsmeding> perhaps?
2025-05-05 07:36:03 +0000tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
2025-05-05 07:36:48 +0000jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-05 07:38:09 +0000__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) toonn
2025-05-05 07:38:15 +0000 <hellwolf> There is no source category per se, it's just Haskell. The target is the categorical formulation of "Solidity/Yul", which is a collection of its data types, built-in functions, and some special contructors outside of categories that I know how to use (which includes switch statement, tight loop, storage operations, inter-contract messagings, call a named function, etc.)
2025-05-05 07:38:15 +0000 <hellwolf> The target now are instances these categories: Monoidal Category (prod, swap), Cartesian Category (fork, pi1/extract_left, pi2/extract_right, delta/discard, rou/duplicate), and Cartesian Closed (apply and curry).
2025-05-05 07:39:42 +0000 <hellwolf> with these categorical "verbs", and those speical constructors and data types, I can then evaluate the same big GADT to anything I like to, including emulation, target source, visual representation, morally lisp s-expression etc.
2025-05-05 07:39:53 +0000 <hellwolf> Minimal rebuilding of the wheels is the goal.
2025-05-05 07:40:21 +0000 <hellwolf> (or simply because I don't have all the knowledge, or time, to build an entire new language that no one will use.)
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2025-05-05 07:44:40 +0000 <hellwolf> Does it make sense?
2025-05-05 07:44:40 +0000 <hellwolf> I need to communicate this in lambda days upcoming... I wonder if anyone happens to go there too.
2025-05-05 07:52:28 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
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2025-05-05 09:08:30 +0000hellwolf(~user@5345-cb48-715e-41e3-0f00-4d40-07d0-2001.sta.estpak.ee) hellwolf
2025-05-05 09:10:32 +0000ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
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2025-05-05 09:40:51 +0000sajenim(~sajenim@user/sajenim) sajenim
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2025-05-05 10:12:20 +0000acidjnk_new3(~acidjnk@p200300d6e71c4f8221d365420023dfe1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
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2025-05-05 10:21:17 +0000CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen
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2025-05-05 10:28:26 +0000smalltalkman(uid545680@id-545680.hampstead.irccloud.com) smalltalkman
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2025-05-05 10:35:47 +0000 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> I guess not.
2025-05-05 10:35:47 +0000 <haskellbridge> ... long message truncated: https://kf8nh.com/_heisenbridge/media/kf8nh.com/dolZnXkFYAXBLYxKUQwegjkx/PTvKIhbMoy4 (11 lines)
2025-05-05 10:36:04 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-128-244.176.6.pool.telefonica.de)
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2025-05-05 10:41:12 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d17f82f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
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2025-05-05 10:48:02 +0000lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4)
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2025-05-05 11:01:50 +0000jespada(~jespada@r167-61-122-73.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) jespada
2025-05-05 11:06:58 +0000 <[exa]> is there any recommendation/howto/best practices on how to sensibly publish static binaries (like what ghcup/cabal does) ?
2025-05-05 11:07:20 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> build or publish?
2025-05-05 11:07:31 +0000tomsmedingwould scp to a public-html/
2025-05-05 11:08:39 +0000 <[exa]> like, the low bar is "build locally with -static and upload the blob to github". I might add gpg signature. Are there any obvious or desirable improvements to that?
2025-05-05 11:09:03 +0000j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-05-05 11:09:06 +0000j1n37-(~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-05 11:09:07 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> build in CI for transparency
2025-05-05 11:09:19 +0000 <tomsmeding> watch out that glibc does not actually support being linked statically, if you use certain APIs from it, things break
2025-05-05 11:09:28 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> https://hasufell.github.io/posts/2024-04-21-static-linking.html
2025-05-05 11:11:32 +0000 <hellwolf> | This approach has been used in GHCup since its rewrite in Haskell.
2025-05-05 11:11:32 +0000 <hellwolf> what was it written in?
2025-05-05 11:11:36 +0000 <tomsmeding> maerwald: have you ever tried doing your guide but with bwrap instead of docker? I tried and it didn't work for me
2025-05-05 11:12:01 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> hellwolf: posix shell
2025-05-05 11:12:02 +0000 <tomsmeding> (I don't recall the precise thing that went wrong -- I think it was related to bwrap not actually creating a functioning multi-user user space inside)
2025-05-05 11:12:19 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> https://github.com/haskell/ghcup/blob/master/ghcup
2025-05-05 11:12:23 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> glorious days
2025-05-05 11:13:16 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> never tried bwrap for that
2025-05-05 11:15:49 +0000 <hellwolf> wonderful, we all started with shell, isn't it.
2025-05-05 11:16:02 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> so did git, yes
2025-05-05 11:16:49 +0000 <hellwolf> I thought urban legend says Linus coded in one weekend, and I always assumed it was in C.
2025-05-05 11:17:02 +0000 <hellwolf> that would have made it more of a legend for sure.
2025-05-05 11:17:10 +0000 <hellwolf> but in shell, I can imagine.
2025-05-05 11:20:48 +0000tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:25b8:e34c:8097:c1c7) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2025-05-05 11:36:44 +0000kuribas(~user@ptr-17d51em2ntfndqd2b01.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (ERC 5.5.0.29.1 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 29.3))
2025-05-05 11:36:59 +0000aljazmc(~aljazmc@user/aljazmc) aljazmc
2025-05-05 11:42:10 +0000j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-05-05 11:43:36 +0000j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-05-05 11:44:06 +0000prdak(~Thunderbi@user/prdak) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-05 11:48:38 +0000prdak(~Thunderbi@user/prdak) prdak
2025-05-05 11:49:16 +0000 <[exa]> hellwolf: https://github.com/git/git/commit/e83c5163316f89bfbde7d9ab23ca2e25604af290
2025-05-05 11:49:34 +0000 <[exa]> I've got no clue why "the information manager from hell" branding didn't catch up
2025-05-05 11:52:22 +0000tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:25b8:e34c:8097:c1c7)
2025-05-05 11:53:37 +0000 <[exa]> maerwald: very useful post, thanks
2025-05-05 11:55:34 +0000 <hellwolf> oh, wow, it was indeed in C, then
2025-05-05 11:55:58 +0000 <[exa]> we're all lucky it wasn't perl
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2025-05-05 12:07:56 +0000JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty
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2025-05-05 12:14:37 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) ()
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2025-05-05 12:31:30 +0000Xe_(~Xe@perl/impostor/xe) Xe
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2025-05-05 12:34:37 +0000TMA(tma@twin.jikos.cz) TMA
2025-05-05 12:34:55 +0000fp(~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::10c5) fp
2025-05-05 12:42:08 +0000Xe_Xe
2025-05-05 12:44:10 +0000aureness(~hello@user/aureness) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-05-05 12:48:59 +0000tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:25b8:e34c:8097:c1c7) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-05-05 12:52:33 +0000aureness(~hello@178.49.99.92)
2025-05-05 12:52:33 +0000aureness(~hello@178.49.99.92) (Changing host)
2025-05-05 12:52:33 +0000aureness(~hello@user/aureness) aureness
2025-05-05 12:53:08 +0000aureness(~hello@user/aureness) (Client Quit)
2025-05-05 12:53:38 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2025-05-05 13:11:33 +0000user363627(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2025-05-05 13:11:46 +0000j1n37-(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-05-05 13:12:12 +0000 <tomsmeding> > Note on changesets: unlike real SCM's
2025-05-05 13:12:15 +0000 <tomsmeding> humble beginnings
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2025-05-05 13:14:03 +0000aljazmc(~aljazmc@user/aljazmc) aljazmc
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2025-05-05 13:21:39 +0000atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) atwm
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2025-05-05 13:29:44 +0000Square2(~Square4@user/square) Square
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2025-05-05 13:32:04 +0000aljazmc(~aljazmc@user/aljazmc) aljazmc
2025-05-05 13:32:19 +0000ystael(~ystael@user/ystael) ystael
2025-05-05 13:33:34 +0000ttybitnik(~ttybitnik@user/wolper) ttybitnik
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2025-05-05 13:46:55 +0000aljazmc(~aljazmc@user/aljazmc) aljazmc
2025-05-05 13:57:06 +0000 <Square2> There's no function in base that gives me the number of digits of an "Int" value?
2025-05-05 14:01:02 +0000 <stefan-__> Square2: "length . show" should work
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2025-05-05 14:05:32 +0000Shsl-Junko-POSER(~Shsl-Junk@50.235.208.178)
2025-05-05 14:06:33 +0000 <hellwolf> what happens to the negatives
2025-05-05 14:07:14 +0000 <hellwolf> length . show . abs :|)
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2025-05-05 14:15:30 +0000 <tomsmeding> is there a usecase where you want the number of numeric base-10 digits in an Int value, but where the possible '-' doesn't count?
2025-05-05 14:17:03 +0000prdak(~Thunderbi@user/prdak) prdak
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2025-05-05 14:51:36 +0000amir_(uid22336@user/amir) amir
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2025-05-05 15:04:54 +0000ChanServ+v haskellbridge
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2025-05-05 15:13:17 +0000jespada_(~jespada@r179-25-149-142.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) jespada
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2025-05-05 15:31:55 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah
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2025-05-05 15:43:32 +0000j1n37-(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
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2025-05-05 15:51:14 +0000aljazmc(~aljazmc@user/aljazmc) aljazmc
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2025-05-05 15:53:25 +0000aljazmc(~aljazmc@user/aljazmc) aljazmc
2025-05-05 15:57:57 +0000prdak(~Thunderbi@user/prdak) prdak
2025-05-05 15:58:22 +0000ttybitnik(~ttybitnik@user/wolper) (Quit: "Currying for lunch...")
2025-05-05 15:59:13 +0000aljazmc(~aljazmc@user/aljazmc) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-05 16:00:03 +0000aljazmc(~aljazmc@user/aljazmc) aljazmc
2025-05-05 16:03:17 +0000 <EvanR> my money was on "an Int value which for some reason is not negative"
2025-05-05 16:03:26 +0000rvalue(~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-05 16:04:03 +0000rvalue(~rvalue@user/rvalue) rvalue
2025-05-05 16:07:30 +0000 <hellwolf> GHC.Num.Natural
2025-05-05 16:07:31 +0000tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:cdc3:f42b:30fc:1c61)
2025-05-05 16:08:08 +0000 <hellwolf> > (negate . fromInteger) 2 :: Natural
2025-05-05 16:08:09 +0000 <lambdabot> *Exception: arithmetic underflow
2025-05-05 16:09:12 +0000 <EvanR> Numeric.Natural if you're nasty
2025-05-05 16:09:38 +0000 <hellwolf> > :info Natural
2025-05-05 16:09:39 +0000 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘:’
2025-05-05 16:09:50 +0000 <EvanR> % :i Natural
2025-05-05 16:09:50 +0000 <yahb2> <interactive>:1:1: error: [GHC-76037] ; Not in scope: data constructor ‘Natural’
2025-05-05 16:10:02 +0000 <hellwolf> :p
2025-05-05 16:10:10 +0000 <hellwolf> need collaboration between two bots
2025-05-05 16:11:04 +0000prdak(~Thunderbi@user/prdak) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-05 16:13:00 +0000wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) wootehfoot
2025-05-05 16:13:06 +0000FatherJack(~FatherJac@ks392457.kimsufi.com)
2025-05-05 16:13:16 +0000wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-05 16:13:25 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-05 16:14:04 +0000 <Digit> ;p one of my haskell bots (i'll take it back out of here momentarily), FatherJack can answer any question your bot may have. isnt that right, FatherJack?
2025-05-05 16:14:04 +0000 <FatherJack> yes
2025-05-05 16:14:36 +0000wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) wootehfoot
2025-05-05 16:19:12 +0000 <hellwolf> FatherJack: do you live in iceland too?
2025-05-05 16:19:12 +0000 <FatherJack> yes
2025-05-05 16:19:24 +0000 <hellwolf> FatherJack: do you live in eestland too?
2025-05-05 16:19:24 +0000 <FatherJack> yes
2025-05-05 16:19:33 +0000 <hellwolf> FatherJack: you are not a total function.
2025-05-05 16:19:43 +0000 <hellwolf> (silence)
2025-05-05 16:20:44 +0000 <EvanR> not in the form of a question
2025-05-05 16:20:57 +0000 <hellwolf> FatherJack: do you have partial functions?
2025-05-05 16:20:57 +0000 <FatherJack> yes
2025-05-05 16:21:02 +0000 <EvanR> FatherJack, ?
2025-05-05 16:21:02 +0000 <FatherJack> yes
2025-05-05 16:21:07 +0000 <hellwolf> FatherJack: are you only total functions?
2025-05-05 16:21:07 +0000 <FatherJack> yes
2025-05-05 16:21:23 +0000 <hellwolf> FatherJack: are you a shame in the age of LLM?
2025-05-05 16:21:24 +0000 <FatherJack> yes
2025-05-05 16:22:40 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@77.23.248.47) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-05 16:23:23 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d17f82f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2025-05-05 16:23:46 +0000euphores(~SASL_euph@user/euphores) (Quit: Leaving.)
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2025-05-05 16:28:26 +0000aljazmc(~aljazmc@user/aljazmc) aljazmc
2025-05-05 16:30:21 +0000jmcantrell_(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-05-05 16:30:56 +0000jmcantrell_jmcantrell
2025-05-05 16:42:21 +0000fp(~Thunderbi@wireless-86-50-140-117.open.aalto.fi) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2025-05-05 16:42:56 +0000 <Digit> okies, sending FatherJack back to ##? before he gets drunk and irritating. surprised no open questions.
2025-05-05 16:43:22 +0000feep(23bd17ddc6@sourcehut/user/alethkit) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by feep_!~feep@p200300d4ff0705005c0acd6546964ff0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)))
2025-05-05 16:43:31 +0000feep(23bd17ddc6@sourcehut/user/alethkit) alethkit
2025-05-05 16:44:02 +0000FatherJack(~FatherJac@ks392457.kimsufi.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-05 16:44:40 +0000feepalethkit
2025-05-05 16:45:09 +0000ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-05-05 16:46:02 +0000 <hellwolf> you need to demo it first
2025-05-05 16:46:03 +0000 <hellwolf> :)
2025-05-05 16:46:39 +0000tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:cdc3:f42b:30fc:1c61) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-05-05 16:48:18 +0000ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2025-05-05 16:49:52 +0000prdak(~Thunderbi@user/prdak) prdak
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2025-05-05 16:50:53 +0000euphores(~SASL_euph@user/euphores) euphores
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2025-05-05 16:56:54 +0000JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: praxis.meansofproduction.biz (juan@acm.org))
2025-05-05 17:03:55 +0000tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2025-05-05 17:05:42 +0000Digitteknohippie(~user@69.47.7.51.dyn.plus.net)
2025-05-05 17:06:40 +0000Digit(~user@69.47.7.51.dyn.plus.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2025-05-05 17:50:35 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-000-054-130.176.0.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-05 17:51:04 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@77.23.248.47)
2025-05-05 17:54:21 +0000 <hellwolf> another compiled and worked experience.
2025-05-05 17:54:36 +0000 <hellwolf> even with a big refactoring
2025-05-05 17:57:49 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@77.23.248.47) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-05-05 17:58:43 +0000tolgo(~Thunderbi@199.115.144.130)
2025-05-05 17:58:45 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-000-054-130.176.0.pool.telefonica.de)
2025-05-05 18:00:55 +0000CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen
2025-05-05 18:07:23 +0000haskellbridge(~hackager@syn-024-093-192-219.res.spectrum.com) hackager
2025-05-05 18:07:23 +0000ChanServ+v haskellbridge
2025-05-05 18:09:36 +0000 <monochrom> Well, "do you live in eestland" is an open question. :)
2025-05-05 18:10:34 +0000[exa]just discovered `cabal man`
2025-05-05 18:11:56 +0000Guest52(~Guest52@148.63.10.187)
2025-05-05 18:12:01 +0000CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-05-05 18:12:59 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2025-05-05 18:13:16 +0000 <hellwolf> $ cabal woman
2025-05-05 18:13:16 +0000 <hellwolf> Error: cabal: unrecognised command: woman (try --help)
2025-05-05 18:13:16 +0000 <hellwolf> Maybe you meant `man`?
2025-05-05 18:13:23 +0000 <hellwolf> very un PC
2025-05-05 18:13:32 +0000 <Rembane> I see a PR coming up
2025-05-05 18:14:32 +0000 <haskellbridge> <geekosaur> as you can see, the bridge is back up
2025-05-05 18:15:32 +0000 <hellwolf> our hero
2025-05-05 18:15:46 +0000 <hellwolf> please send donation page.
2025-05-05 18:16:13 +0000Guest52(~Guest52@148.63.10.187) (Client Quit)
2025-05-05 18:18:09 +0000Guest52(~Guest52@148.63.10.187)
2025-05-05 18:21:14 +0000 <EvanR> that's why email was a nice compromise
2025-05-05 18:29:03 +0000 <tomsmeding> `cabal man` for me gives me a manpage-like thing but with all the ANSI escape codes literally printed out :p
2025-05-05 18:29:49 +0000 <hellwolf> are you using xterm or some primitive stuff
2025-05-05 18:30:03 +0000 <tomsmeding> I'm using a terminal with 24-bit color support
2025-05-05 18:30:15 +0000 <tomsmeding> I suspect it's calling less(1) without -R or something
2025-05-05 18:30:46 +0000sprotte24(~sprotte24@p200300d16f2c120050457aa1052cddc8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2025-05-05 18:31:47 +0000 <tomsmeding> oh
2025-05-05 18:31:55 +0000 <tomsmeding> it sees that $PAGER is set and uses that _instead_ of `less -R`
2025-05-05 18:32:04 +0000 <tomsmeding> that's not how that works
2025-05-05 18:32:34 +0000 <hellwolf> I have PAGER set to "less"
2025-05-05 18:32:38 +0000 <tomsmeding> me too
2025-05-05 18:32:53 +0000 <monochrom> I had "export LESS=-iR" in my .profile a long time ago.
2025-05-05 18:32:58 +0000 <tomsmeding> https://github.com/haskell/cabal/blob/6953972bfa6ec706d171cda8bfcba2b7354a8206/cabal-install/src/D…
2025-05-05 18:33:14 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> in hledger, if we see PAGER=less, we append some options like -R to user's LESS
2025-05-05 18:33:46 +0000 <monochrom> But actually I only remember adding -i myself, I don't recall why I added -R, I don't even recall hearing about -R at all.
2025-05-05 18:34:10 +0000 <tomsmeding> -R makes less(1) print ansi escape sequences as-is to the terminal instead of, well, escaping them
2025-05-05 18:34:54 +0000 <tomsmeding> `less -r` is for living dangerously
2025-05-05 18:36:05 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> less has _so many_ options..
2025-05-05 18:36:09 +0000 <tomsmeding> it seems man(1) defaults to less(1) these days
2025-05-05 18:36:16 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> it's a bit out of control
2025-05-05 18:36:21 +0000 <tomsmeding> perhaps I'll try unsetting PAGER for a while and seeing whether anything uses more(1)
2025-05-05 18:36:43 +0000 <tomsmeding> (`env -u PAGER cabal man` works for me)
2025-05-05 18:37:54 +0000 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: also, you have to get much more primitive than xterm for plain 3-bit ansi color escapes to not work
2025-05-05 18:38:31 +0000 <hellwolf> from spelling bee to gnulongoptions bee
2025-05-05 18:38:49 +0000 <monochrom> spelling gnu
2025-05-05 18:39:45 +0000chele(~chele@user/chele) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-05 18:40:43 +0000tolgo(~Thunderbi@199.115.144.130) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-05-05 18:43:46 +0000sam113101(~sam@modemcable200.189-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) (Quit: WeeChat 4.5.1)
2025-05-05 18:48:18 +0000 <hellwolf> I had similar issue when doing nix related --help a while ago. Now the problems have all just happily disappeared. I still dont' know what happened.
2025-05-05 18:50:23 +0000user363627(~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-05 18:53:52 +0000Guest52(~Guest52@148.63.10.187) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-05-05 18:54:41 +0000sam113101(~sam@modemcable200.189-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) sam113101
2025-05-05 19:00:01 +0000caconym7(~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye)
2025-05-05 19:00:42 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-000-054-130.176.0.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-05 19:00:43 +0000caconym7(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
2025-05-05 19:01:04 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@ip5f5ad197.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2025-05-05 19:02:41 +0000tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:cdc3:f42b:30fc:1c61) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-05-05 19:04:20 +0000tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:cdc3:f42b:30fc:1c61)
2025-05-05 19:09:30 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) ()
2025-05-05 19:09:44 +0000 <hellwolf> "\(x, y) -> (show x, y)", pointfree program tell me to use "first" from Arrow. But I don't want to.
2025-05-05 19:10:31 +0000 <monochrom> I only know of first for this.
2025-05-05 19:10:54 +0000 <tomsmeding> hellwolf: use first from Data.Bifunctor
2025-05-05 19:11:01 +0000 <monochrom> But normally I just write that lambda. :)
2025-05-05 19:11:15 +0000 <monochrom> Oh, Bifunctor. That's better.
2025-05-05 19:11:17 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> 👆️
2025-05-05 19:11:26 +0000 <hellwolf> I see
2025-05-05 19:11:27 +0000 <c_wraith> Yeah, Bifunctor is generally the way to go.
2025-05-05 19:11:58 +0000 <hellwolf> can you articulate your aesthetic preference...
2025-05-05 19:12:07 +0000 <hellwolf> I can see that too, but I can't articulate it.
2025-05-05 19:12:21 +0000 <tomsmeding> over arrow, you mean?
2025-05-05 19:12:26 +0000 <hellwolf> yea
2025-05-05 19:13:16 +0000 <tomsmeding> if you import Data.Arrow, it looks like you're using arrows -- usage of arrows is very rare these days, because people have figured out that the Arrow class is not a good fit for the majority of cases where arrow-like things could be good. So seeing Data.Arrow makes the reader think "hey, is this a special case where arrows _do_ work?"
2025-05-05 19:13:20 +0000 <tomsmeding> but it's not, it's just `first`
2025-05-05 19:13:45 +0000 <tomsmeding> Data.Bifunctor is a small subset of what Data.Arrow does -- a subset that's much more directly useful than arrows in its full generality
2025-05-05 19:13:55 +0000Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Tuplanolla
2025-05-05 19:14:05 +0000 <tomsmeding> did that make any sense?
2025-05-05 19:14:08 +0000 <hellwolf> okay. So BiFunctor is more general, so it's better.
2025-05-05 19:14:15 +0000 <hellwolf> that makes sense.
2025-05-05 19:14:47 +0000 <tomsmeding> Arrow is a much stronger requirement than Bifunctor is, on a type -- but in a sense Arrow is _too_ strong: there are too few types that usefully implement Arrow
2025-05-05 19:15:21 +0000 <EvanR> use the most general thing that would work?
2025-05-05 19:15:26 +0000 <tomsmeding> I guess
2025-05-05 19:16:41 +0000 <c_wraith> that's a corollary to the principle of least power, at least for abstract interfaces. The more things that can implement an interface, the less powerful it is.
2025-05-05 19:18:55 +0000 <c_wraith> Also, Arrow is a weird fit. like Bifunctor is very directly just giving you access to a covariant functor on two type variables instead of one. That's its whole purpose.
2025-05-05 19:19:28 +0000 <c_wraith> Arrow is about abstracting over functions on tuples
2025-05-05 19:20:58 +0000 <c_wraith> Or really, functions on values that can be tupled.
2025-05-05 19:23:33 +0000 <c_wraith> Where this difference really pays off is that Bifunctor's first also works with Either, but if you're using Arrow you need to switch to left instead
2025-05-05 19:24:11 +0000 <c_wraith> It's abstracting over the wrong (for most use cases) thing, so it needs more and more pieces to cover common cases
2025-05-05 19:25:52 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah
2025-05-05 19:34:38 +0000weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2025-05-05 19:35:00 +0000DigitteknohippieDigit
2025-05-05 19:40:38 +0000pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) siracusa
2025-05-05 19:43:08 +0000ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2025-05-05 19:48:53 +0000fp(~Thunderbi@hof1.kyla.fi) fp
2025-05-05 19:51:48 +0000xacktm(xacktm@user/xacktm) (Quit: fBNC - https://bnc4free.com)
2025-05-05 20:01:57 +0000vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal
2025-05-05 20:03:49 +0000jinsun(jinsun@user/jinsun) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-05-05 20:12:32 +0000prdak(~Thunderbi@user/prdak) prdak
2025-05-05 20:14:16 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@ip5f5ad197.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2025-05-05 20:24:42 +0000jespada_(~jespada@r179-25-149-142.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-05-05 20:25:45 +0000jespada(~jespada@r179-25-149-142.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) jespada
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2025-05-05 20:30:02 +0000xacktm(xacktm@user/xacktm) xacktm
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2025-05-05 20:39:45 +0000Guest2892(jinsun@here.and.ready-to.party) (Changing host)
2025-05-05 20:39:45 +0000Guest2892(jinsun@user/jinsun) jinsun
2025-05-05 20:39:46 +0000Guest2892jinsun
2025-05-05 20:46:44 +0000takuan(~takuan@d8D86B601.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-05 20:57:09 +0000ttybitnik(~ttybitnik@user/wolper) ttybitnik
2025-05-05 21:02:43 +0000ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-05 21:09:29 +0000j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-05-05 21:09:42 +0000Square(~Square@user/square) Square
2025-05-05 21:10:25 +0000j1n37-(~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-05 21:11:22 +0000swamp_(~zmt00@user/zmt00) zmt00
2025-05-05 21:14:34 +0000zmt01(~zmt00@user/zmt00) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-05-05 21:26:24 +0000greber(~greber@82.148.184.53)
2025-05-05 21:28:01 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> tomsmeding: arrow in general is about the arrow classes, no?
2025-05-05 21:28:04 +0000Guest12(~Guest12@82.148.184.53)
2025-05-05 21:28:06 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> i abuse >>> all the time
2025-05-05 21:28:22 +0000tolgo(~Thunderbi@199.115.144.130)
2025-05-05 21:28:30 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> "did you just disguise point free code as a verticalized arrow-operator chain?"
2025-05-05 21:30:21 +0000 <monochrom> Don't worry, (>>>) is merely Category so we're OK with it. :)
2025-05-05 21:32:40 +0000__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2025-05-05 21:35:09 +0000tolgo(~Thunderbi@199.115.144.130) (Quit: tolgo)
2025-05-05 21:42:34 +0000 <EvanR> :t (>>>)
2025-05-05 21:42:35 +0000 <lambdabot> forall k (cat :: k -> k -> *) (a :: k) (b :: k) (c :: k). Category cat => cat a b -> cat b c -> cat a c
2025-05-05 21:42:41 +0000fp(~Thunderbi@hof1.kyla.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-05-05 21:42:52 +0000 <EvanR> you're a 3 > haskell programmer now
2025-05-05 21:43:27 +0000Guest12(~Guest12@82.148.184.53) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-05-05 21:43:43 +0000 <EvanR> in the spirit of the three * C programmer
2025-05-05 21:45:19 +0000vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-05 21:47:15 +0000tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:cdc3:f42b:30fc:1c61) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-05-05 21:50:01 +0000amir_(uid22336@user/amir) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2025-05-05 22:02:12 +0000JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty
2025-05-05 22:06:20 +0000Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo
2025-05-05 22:09:56 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> oh, it's been a while since i abused *** and &&&, i've totally forgotten :(
2025-05-05 22:13:12 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> zeroArrow is about empty? well, it's const empty
2025-05-05 22:14:53 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> "TOML already has implementations in some of the most popular programming languages today... Haskell ..."
2025-05-05 22:14:55 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> https://toml.io/en/
2025-05-05 22:14:58 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> thanks tom!
2025-05-05 22:39:18 +0000la1n(~la1n@81.222.178.255) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-05-05 22:39:43 +0000la1n(~la1n@81.222.178.255)
2025-05-05 22:41:01 +0000 <EvanR> tom's markup language
2025-05-05 22:53:27 +0000ttybitnik(~ttybitnik@user/wolper) (Quit: Fading out...)
2025-05-05 22:56:22 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-05 22:59:10 +0000sabathan2(~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2025-05-05 23:03:48 +0000 <JuanDaugherty> enwiki sez he's a billionaire
2025-05-05 23:04:14 +0000prdak(~Thunderbi@user/prdak) prdak
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2025-05-05 23:09:46 +0000JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: praxis.meansofproduction.biz (juan@acm.org))
2025-05-05 23:09:54 +0000j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-05-05 23:09:58 +0000j1n37-(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-05-05 23:30:23 +0000jespada(~jespada@r179-25-149-142.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-05-05 23:36:21 +0000michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.203) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-05-05 23:37:50 +0000Axma14181Axman6
2025-05-05 23:37:54 +0000michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.217)
2025-05-05 23:38:09 +0000 <monochrom> EvanR: haha that's brilliant
2025-05-05 23:42:29 +0000j1n37-(~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-05-05 23:43:20 +0000 <monochrom> Hey that's very inspiring. Next time I make an infix operator and can't think of a better name, it's ^^^ then! data BinTree a = Nil | BinTree a :^^^: BinTree a
2025-05-05 23:43:32 +0000j1n37(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
2025-05-05 23:46:02 +0000Square2(~Square4@user/square) Square
2025-05-05 23:47:38 +0000 <monochrom> \∩/ ::: also works
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