2024/11/13

2024-11-13 00:03:13 +0100Hafydd(~Hafydd@user/hafydd) Hafydd
2024-11-13 00:06:12 +0100falafel(~falafel@2600:1700:99f4:2050:7dd6:87c8:aed5:b9e5) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-13 00:06:21 +0100gabriel_sevecek(~gabriel@188-167-229-200.dynamic.chello.sk) (Quit: WeeChat 4.4.2)
2024-11-13 00:08:29 +0100gabriel_sevecek(~gabriel@188-167-229-200.dynamic.chello.sk) gabriel_sevecek
2024-11-13 00:10:53 +0100Everything(~Everythin@178-133-145-205.mobile.vf-ua.net) Everything
2024-11-13 00:19:33 +0100acidjnk_new3(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f33a143196b11e5c3bb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2024-11-13 00:20:54 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2024-11-13 00:29:14 +0100JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty
2024-11-13 00:31:29 +0100weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2024-11-13 00:42:13 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2024-11-13 00:47:36 +0100Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo
2024-11-13 00:51:15 +0100KicksonButt(~quassel@187.21.174.221)
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2024-11-13 00:57:00 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2024-11-13 00:57:22 +0100Inst_(~Inst@user/Inst) Inst
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2024-11-13 01:04:06 +0100yuzu(~yuzu@2800:484:2482:7000:8185:93f7:e30f:cb00)
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2024-11-13 01:13:02 +0100ljdarj1(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
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2024-11-13 01:14:23 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life
2024-11-13 01:16:50 +0100ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-11-13 01:16:50 +0100ljdarj1ljdarj
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2024-11-13 01:27:07 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) ()
2024-11-13 01:27:54 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:50c5:d80f:bb7d:df5c) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-11-13 01:31:04 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
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2024-11-13 01:43:56 +0100EvanR(~EvanR@user/evanr) EvanR
2024-11-13 01:44:49 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-11-13 02:03:08 +0100 <Axman6> bailsman: that feels like you're reinventing https://hackage.haskell.org/package/vector-0.13.2.0/docs/Data-Vector.html#v:imap? or something else? I think what you've written will have to repeatedly freeze and copy the vector so it's going to be very slow.
2024-11-13 02:03:45 +0100Square(~Square@user/square) Square
2024-11-13 02:04:15 +0100remexre(~remexre@user/remexre) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-11-13 02:04:37 +0100remexre(~remexre@user/remexre) remexre
2024-11-13 02:04:47 +0100 <Axman6> uh, actually, isn't that just map?
2024-11-13 02:06:53 +0100 <Axman6> Even if things aren't being copied, you're incurring a bounds check for every index. mapM (pure . f) v would be much more efficient, and more idomatic (it took me ages to figure out what that code was actually doing)
2024-11-13 02:07:47 +0100comonad(~comonad@p200300d027186300edf824b7b80a34ff.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2024-11-13 02:07:56 +0100stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-11-13 02:09:59 +0100comonad(~comonad@p200300d0270bcb00d2bd35ff80c069c9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2024-11-13 02:26:33 +0100 <haskellbridge> <zwro> > [0..] !! maxBound
2024-11-13 02:27:43 +0100 <haskellbridge> <zwro> come on
2024-11-13 02:27:44 +0100 <haskellbridge> > [0..] !! maxBound
2024-11-13 02:27:49 +0100 <lambdabot> mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
2024-11-13 02:28:58 +0100 <Rembane> Wouldn't that be maxBound +/- 1?
2024-11-13 02:29:01 +0100 <Rembane> > maxBound
2024-11-13 02:29:03 +0100 <lambdabot> ()
2024-11-13 02:29:04 +0100 <Rembane> :D
2024-11-13 02:29:40 +0100 <jackdk> > [0..] !! fromEnum (maxBound)
2024-11-13 02:29:42 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2024-11-13 02:29:42 +0100 <lambdabot> • Could not deduce (Enum a0) arising from a use of ‘fromEnum’
2024-11-13 02:29:42 +0100 <lambdabot> from the context: (Num a, Enum a)
2024-11-13 02:29:50 +0100 <jackdk> darn I was hoping it'd default
2024-11-13 02:29:57 +0100 <monochrom> @type [0..] !! maxBound
2024-11-13 02:29:58 +0100 <lambdabot> (Num a, Enum a) => a
2024-11-13 02:30:17 +0100 <monochrom> > maxBound :: Integer
2024-11-13 02:30:19 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2024-11-13 02:30:19 +0100 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Bounded Integer)
2024-11-13 02:30:19 +0100 <lambdabot> arising from a use of ‘maxBound’
2024-11-13 02:30:29 +0100 <Rembane> > maxBound :: Int
2024-11-13 02:30:30 +0100 <lambdabot> 9223372036854775807
2024-11-13 02:30:36 +0100 <Rembane> That's a big number.
2024-11-13 02:31:33 +0100 <monochrom> > [maxBound] `asTypeOf` [0..] !! maxBound
2024-11-13 02:31:34 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2024-11-13 02:31:34 +0100 <lambdabot> • Ambiguous type variable ‘a0’ arising from a use of ‘show_M452416577057...
2024-11-13 02:31:34 +0100 <lambdabot> prevents the constraint ‘(Show a0)’ from being solved.
2024-11-13 02:32:01 +0100 <monochrom> Ah maybe parens
2024-11-13 02:32:06 +0100 <monochrom> > [maxBound] `asTypeOf` ([0..] !! maxBound)
2024-11-13 02:32:07 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2024-11-13 02:32:07 +0100 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Num [()]) arising from a use of ‘e_10’
2024-11-13 02:32:07 +0100 <lambdabot> • In the expression: e_10
2024-11-13 02:32:19 +0100 <monochrom> Oh oops I am a type error
2024-11-13 02:32:26 +0100 <monochrom> > maxBound `asTypeOf` ([0..] !! maxBound)
2024-11-13 02:32:28 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2024-11-13 02:32:28 +0100 <lambdabot> • Ambiguous type variable ‘a0’ arising from a use of ‘show_M414883925847...
2024-11-13 02:32:28 +0100 <lambdabot> prevents the constraint ‘(Show a0)’ from being solved.
2024-11-13 02:32:31 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp)
2024-11-13 02:33:16 +0100 <monochrom> Haha I guess I fail at type inference.
2024-11-13 02:33:56 +0100 <yin> what are you trying to do?
2024-11-13 02:34:36 +0100 <geekosaur> this sounds like someone put in the Num instance for () again?
2024-11-13 02:34:38 +0100 <monochrom> I am trying to understand what [0..] !! maxBound defaults to.
2024-11-13 02:34:51 +0100 <yin> :t [0..] !! maxBound
2024-11-13 02:34:52 +0100 <lambdabot> (Num a, Enum a) => a
2024-11-13 02:35:00 +0100 <yin> Integer probably
2024-11-13 02:35:10 +0100Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-11-13 02:35:13 +0100 <monochrom> > ([0..] !! maxBound) :: Integer
2024-11-13 02:35:19 +0100 <lambdabot> mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
2024-11-13 02:35:20 +0100 <yin> [0 :: Integer] !! (maxBound :: Int)
2024-11-13 02:35:49 +0100 <monochrom> Ooohhhh I am a moron. x!!y forces y :: Int.
2024-11-13 02:35:57 +0100 <yin> yes :)
2024-11-13 02:36:16 +0100 <yin> i mean not that you're a moron. the second part
2024-11-13 02:36:38 +0100 <monochrom> haha
2024-11-13 02:36:56 +0100 <monochrom> I somehow had [0..maxBound] stuck in my mind.
2024-11-13 02:37:16 +0100 <yin> intuitively makes sense
2024-11-13 02:42:03 +0100ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2024-11-13 02:47:34 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2024-11-13 02:47:53 +0100stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) stiell
2024-11-13 03:02:17 +0100tomku(~tomku@user/tomku) tomku
2024-11-13 03:11:18 +0100Square(~Square@user/square) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-11-13 03:13:24 +0100ph88(~ph88@2a02:8109:9e26:c800:b27:4ecf:926d:786) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-11-13 03:15:12 +0100Square(~Square@user/square) Square
2024-11-13 03:17:05 +0100 <haskellbridge> <zwro> ghci defaulting to () for constrained polymorphic types happens because it's the simplest thing you can print. ghc would complain
2024-11-13 03:18:16 +0100 <haskellbridge> <zwro> it's the most sensible thing to print
2024-11-13 03:18:16 +0100 <haskellbridge> > :t mempty
2024-11-13 03:18:17 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘:’
2024-11-13 03:18:32 +0100 <haskellbridge> <zwro> er
2024-11-13 03:18:32 +0100 <haskellbridge> :t mempty
2024-11-13 03:18:33 +0100 <lambdabot> Monoid a => a
2024-11-13 03:18:52 +0100 <haskellbridge> <zwro> there we go
2024-11-13 03:18:52 +0100 <haskellbridge> > mempty
2024-11-13 03:18:54 +0100 <lambdabot> ()
2024-11-13 03:21:00 +0100weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2024-11-13 03:30:42 +0100ZLima12(~zlima12@user/meow/ZLima12) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2024-11-13 03:31:07 +0100ZLima12(~zlima12@user/meow/ZLima12) ZLima12
2024-11-13 03:40:09 +0100glguy(glguy@libera/staff/glguy) (Quit: Quit)
2024-11-13 03:46:33 +0100weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2024-11-13 03:47:33 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2024-11-13 03:51:01 +0100weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2024-11-13 03:53:04 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-13 03:58:07 +0100glguy(glguy@libera/staff/glguy) glguy
2024-11-13 04:20:48 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2024-11-13 04:30:49 +0100td_(~td@i5387092B.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-13 04:32:38 +0100td_(~td@i53870901.versanet.de)
2024-11-13 04:36:41 +0100alphazone(~alphazone@2.219.56.221) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-13 04:44:42 +0100alp(~alp@2001:861:e3d6:8f80:a847:8724:8ab7:c88b)
2024-11-13 04:47:09 +0100pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2024-11-13 04:50:03 +0100 <EvanR> inany case [0..] !! maxBound, maxBound +1, maxBound - 1 all make sense, it's infinite. Other than maxBound + 1 not being a thing
2024-11-13 04:50:39 +0100 <EvanR> :t (!!)
2024-11-13 04:50:40 +0100 <lambdabot> [a] -> Int -> a
2024-11-13 04:53:15 +0100 <EvanR> this type signature for this operation is so disappoint
2024-11-13 04:53:44 +0100 <EvanR> more like [a] -> Int -> a or crash, who knows
2024-11-13 05:15:03 +0100 <dibblego> @type ix
2024-11-13 05:15:04 +0100 <lambdabot> (Ixed m, Applicative f) => Index m -> (IxValue m -> f (IxValue m)) -> m -> f m
2024-11-13 05:15:27 +0100 <dibblego> @type view . ix
2024-11-13 05:15:27 +0100 <lambdabot> (MonadReader s m, Ixed s, Monoid (IxValue s)) => Index s -> m (IxValue s)
2024-11-13 05:18:36 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-13 05:25:01 +0100pointlessslippe1(~pointless@62.106.85.17) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-11-13 05:25:33 +0100pointlessslippe1(~pointless@62.106.85.17) pointlessslippe1
2024-11-13 05:40:06 +0100aforemny_(~aforemny@i59F4C560.versanet.de) aforemny
2024-11-13 05:40:48 +0100aforemny(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cde:dd00:e907:b368:5aa5:db2) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2024-11-13 05:44:55 +0100superbil(~superbil@114-32-231-70.hinet-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2024-11-13 05:46:44 +0100superbil(~superbil@114-32-231-70.hinet-ip.hinet.net) superbil
2024-11-13 05:50:56 +0100notzmv(~daniel@user/notzmv) notzmv
2024-11-13 05:53:38 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2024-11-13 06:08:05 +0100mange(~user@user/mange) mange
2024-11-13 06:12:53 +0100 <Axman6> @type view . ix `asAppliedTo` undefined
2024-11-13 06:12:54 +0100 <lambdabot> (MonadReader s m, Ixed s, Monoid (IxValue s)) => Index s -> m (IxValue s)
2024-11-13 06:16:11 +0100 <jackdk> @type asAppliedTo
2024-11-13 06:16:12 +0100 <lambdabot> (a -> b) -> a -> a -> b
2024-11-13 06:16:25 +0100 <jackdk> huh?
2024-11-13 06:16:34 +0100gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh) gehmehgeh
2024-11-13 06:16:58 +0100 <Axman6> it's just const with a resticted type, like all the things in lens which are just id
2024-11-13 06:17:20 +0100 <Axman6> I was trying to get it to expand the m to a function
2024-11-13 06:17:36 +0100 <Axman6> @type \x -> view (ix x) `asAppliedTo` undefined
2024-11-13 06:17:37 +0100 <lambdabot> (Ixed s, Monoid (IxValue s)) => Index s -> s -> IxValue s
2024-11-13 06:18:45 +0100gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-11-13 06:51:42 +0100michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.201)
2024-11-13 07:24:26 +0100foul_owl(~kerry@185.216.231.181) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-11-13 07:26:22 +0100alphazone(~alphazone@2.219.56.221)
2024-11-13 07:26:58 +0100takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2024-11-13 07:31:13 +0100Square2(~Square4@user/square) Square
2024-11-13 07:34:19 +0100Square(~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024-11-13 07:36:11 +0100rvalue(~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-11-13 07:36:42 +0100rvalue(~rvalue@user/rvalue) rvalue
2024-11-13 07:38:53 +0100foul_owl(~kerry@185.216.231.180) foul_owl
2024-11-13 07:49:43 +0100hughjfchen(~hughjfche@vmi556545.contaboserver.net) (Quit: WeeChat 4.2.2)
2024-11-13 07:50:08 +0100hughjfchen(~hughjfche@vmi556545.contaboserver.net) hughjfchen
2024-11-13 07:51:34 +0100hughjfchen(~hughjfche@vmi556545.contaboserver.net) (Client Quit)
2024-11-13 07:52:19 +0100acidjnk_new3(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f71e1b1d5072338b10c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2024-11-13 07:53:31 +0100notzmv(~daniel@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024-11-13 07:54:05 +0100hughjfchen(~hughjfche@vmi556545.contaboserver.net) hughjfchen
2024-11-13 08:11:25 +0100 <carbolymer> > putStrLn "󱦟"
2024-11-13 08:11:27 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:11: error:
2024-11-13 08:11:27 +0100 <lambdabot> lexical error in string/character literal at character '\989599'
2024-11-13 08:11:36 +0100 <carbolymer> how do I put unicode into the source code?
2024-11-13 08:13:14 +0100 <probie> By just putting it in the source
2024-11-13 08:13:23 +0100 <probie> That's not a unicode character
2024-11-13 08:14:05 +0100 <carbolymer> ok that's utf-16
2024-11-13 08:15:41 +0100 <EvanR> um
2024-11-13 08:16:01 +0100 <EvanR> is that glyph showing 0F199F because that's out of range
2024-11-13 08:16:27 +0100 <EvanR> > maxBound :: Char
2024-11-13 08:16:28 +0100 <lambdabot> '\1114111'
2024-11-13 08:16:41 +0100 <EvanR> though 989599 isn't
2024-11-13 08:17:36 +0100 <EvanR> I'm lost
2024-11-13 08:18:32 +0100 <mauke> > chr 1114112
2024-11-13 08:18:34 +0100 <lambdabot> *Exception: Prelude.chr: bad argument: 1114112
2024-11-13 08:18:39 +0100 <EvanR> > generalCategory '󱦟'
2024-11-13 08:18:40 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:18: error:
2024-11-13 08:18:40 +0100 <lambdabot> lexical error in string/character literal at character '\989599'
2024-11-13 08:18:43 +0100 <mauke> > chr 989599
2024-11-13 08:18:45 +0100 <lambdabot> '\989599'
2024-11-13 08:18:55 +0100 <EvanR> > generalCategory '\989599'
2024-11-13 08:18:56 +0100 <lambdabot> PrivateUse
2024-11-13 08:19:18 +0100 <probie> I'm 80% sure 0F 11 9F isn't a valid utf-16 encoding either
2024-11-13 08:19:19 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024-11-13 08:19:33 +0100 <probie> s/11/19/
2024-11-13 08:19:41 +0100 <EvanR> it's a private use character
2024-11-13 08:19:51 +0100 <EvanR> maybe it's lexically illegal
2024-11-13 08:20:53 +0100 <EvanR> % putStrLn "🦟"
2024-11-13 08:20:53 +0100 <yahb2> 🦟
2024-11-13 08:20:57 +0100 <EvanR> carbolymer, ^
2024-11-13 08:21:16 +0100 <Maxdamantus> ghci's readlive thing messes up when you try to write it.
2024-11-13 08:21:16 +0100 <carbolymer> > chr 0xf199f
2024-11-13 08:21:18 +0100 <lambdabot> '\989599'
2024-11-13 08:21:22 +0100 <Maxdamantus> readline*
2024-11-13 08:21:25 +0100 <carbolymer> > putStr $ chr 0xf199f
2024-11-13 08:21:26 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2024-11-13 08:21:26 +0100 <lambdabot> • Couldn't match type ‘Char’ with ‘[Char]’
2024-11-13 08:21:26 +0100 <lambdabot> Expected type: String
2024-11-13 08:21:33 +0100 <carbolymer> > putStr $ [chr 0xf199f]
2024-11-13 08:21:35 +0100 <lambdabot> <IO ()>
2024-11-13 08:21:39 +0100 <carbolymer> uh
2024-11-13 08:21:42 +0100 <Maxdamantus> silly people doing silly things with Unicode, imo.
2024-11-13 08:21:52 +0100 <EvanR> lambdabot doesn't run IO but yahb2 does
2024-11-13 08:22:09 +0100 <EvanR> > text "🦟"
2024-11-13 08:22:11 +0100 <lambdabot> 🦟
2024-11-13 08:22:26 +0100 <Maxdamantus> (Haskell/ghci, that is, not sure which fails to handle it)
2024-11-13 08:22:56 +0100Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-11-13 08:24:33 +0100 <Maxdamantus> probably Haskell, since it happens outside of ghci, though it's weird that ghci fails to even accept it from the terminal.
2024-11-13 08:29:15 +0100 <Maxdamantus> probie: U+F199F is a valid Unicode Scalar Value, so it can be encoded in all the UTFs, including UTF-16.
2024-11-13 08:31:32 +0100 <Maxdamantus> <DB86 DD9F> is the UTF-16 encoding.
2024-11-13 08:38:16 +0100briandaed(~root@185.234.210.211)
2024-11-13 08:48:42 +0100athostFI(~Atte@176-93-56-50.bb.dnainternet.fi)
2024-11-13 08:51:45 +0100 <probie> Maxdamantus: That depends on your definition of "valid". It's in supplementary private use area A. I should probably have said "doesn't refer to a valid character"
2024-11-13 08:57:34 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-11-13 09:00:00 +0100caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye)
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2024-11-13 12:12:03 +0100ThePenguin(~ThePengui@cust-95-80-24-166.csbnet.se) ThePenguin
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2024-11-13 12:23:12 +0100Teacup(~teacup@user/teacup) Teacup
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2024-11-13 12:44:56 +0100Everything(~Everythin@46.211.114.113) Everything
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2024-11-13 12:57:41 +0100weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
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2024-11-13 14:42:57 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-11-13 14:43:07 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah
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2024-11-13 14:53:53 +0100cstml(~user@94.125.135.250)
2024-11-13 14:54:04 +0100img(~img@user/img) img
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2024-11-13 15:00:19 +0100Digitteknohippie(~user@user/digit) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-11-13 15:03:19 +0100ircbrowse_tom(~ircbrowse@user/tomsmeding/bot/ircbrowse-tom) (ZNC 1.9.0+deb2build3 - https://znc.in)
2024-11-13 15:05:44 +0100ircbrowse_tom(~ircbrowse@user/tomsmeding/bot/ircbrowse-tom) ircbrowse_tom
2024-11-13 15:05:45 +0100Server+Cnt
2024-11-13 15:05:53 +0100tomsmeding(~tomsmedin@2a01:4f8:c0c:5e5e::2) tomsmeding
2024-11-13 15:13:08 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-11-13 15:14:06 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah
2024-11-13 15:15:30 +0100 <tomsmeding> Hecate: not replying to the email because I'm not a ghc expert but iirc GHC uses a bumping allocator, so if you allocate a bunch of heap nodes right after each other, they will end up adjacently in memory. So you get memory locality, but still pointers.
2024-11-13 15:16:43 +0100 <tomsmeding> Furthermore, if there aren't any pointers into tail elements of your list, the GC will always traverse the list from head to tail. If you use the copying GC (i.e. not --nonmoving-gc), then it will (I think!) copy values in order of visiting them, so even if the list wasn't packed beforehand, they will be anyway after a GC pass.
2024-11-13 15:17:01 +0100 <tomsmeding> I think this is what you were referring to in your original email
2024-11-13 15:18:40 +0100 <tomsmeding> % putStr [Data.Char.chr 0xf1991] -- carbolymer: yahb allows you to run IO
2024-11-13 15:18:40 +0100 <yahb2> 󱦑
2024-11-13 15:25:27 +0100mari-estel(~mari-este@user/mari-estel) mari-estel
2024-11-13 15:28:08 +0100 <Hecate> tomsmeding: thanks
2024-11-13 15:29:05 +0100 <yin> what is this exceptional character that my terminal renders correctly but not the Element app?
2024-11-13 15:32:47 +0100 <yin> 󱦑󱦟
2024-11-13 15:37:19 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024-11-13 15:41:04 +0100alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02:8440:3117:f07c:59a9:a91e:4d8c:de8d) alexherbo2
2024-11-13 15:47:17 +0100ash3en(~Thunderbi@ip1f10cbd6.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) ash3en
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2024-11-13 16:03:08 +0100alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3117-f07c-59a9-a91e-4d8c-de8d.rev.sfr.net) alexherbo2
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2024-11-13 16:26:51 +0100mesaoptimizer(~mesaoptim@user/PapuaHardyNet) PapuaHardyNet
2024-11-13 16:29:37 +0100mulk(~mulk@pd95146e9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-11-13 16:37:37 +0100gentauro(~gentauro@user/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-11-13 16:38:10 +0100Everything(~Everythin@46.211.114.113) (Quit: leaving)
2024-11-13 16:40:50 +0100e-snail(~pete@user/e-snail) e-snail
2024-11-13 16:43:29 +0100gentauro(~gentauro@user/gentauro) gentauro
2024-11-13 16:43:40 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-11-13 16:48:13 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-11-13 16:50:24 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah
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2024-11-13 16:58:53 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-11-13 17:00:07 +0100mulk(~mulk@pd95146e9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) mulk
2024-11-13 17:19:23 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-11-13 17:19:49 +0100 <EvanR> private use area
2024-11-13 17:22:54 +0100Square2(~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-11-13 17:23:16 +0100rvalue-(~rvalue@user/rvalue) rvalue
2024-11-13 17:23:25 +0100Pixi`(~Pixi@user/pixi) (Quit: Leaving)
2024-11-13 17:24:07 +0100rvalue(~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024-11-13 17:25:21 +0100acidjnk_new3(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f718455f4c967233051.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-11-13 17:29:18 +0100rvalue-rvalue
2024-11-13 17:36:08 +0100 <EvanR> according to wikipedia "code points in the Private Use Areas are not noncharacters, reserved, or unassigned". By classical logic, not non-characters implies "character" xD. Later it quotes standard talking about characters which are assigned code points in the private use area. So there might actually be characters involved, but haskell has no way to know what they are
2024-11-13 17:36:51 +0100mari-estel(~mari-este@user/mari-estel) (Quit: on the move)
2024-11-13 17:36:58 +0100 <EvanR> it just seems the lexical stage rejects these Chars entirely
2024-11-13 17:47:40 +0100 <EvanR> > generalCategory 'A'
2024-11-13 17:47:43 +0100 <lambdabot> UppercaseLetter
2024-11-13 17:49:01 +0100 <EvanR> they're referring to codepoint type and not general category though, which we don't seem to have a function for out of the box
2024-11-13 17:52:48 +0100 <geekosaur> yes, the lexer hates PUA characters. I hit that several years ago
2024-11-13 17:53:04 +0100 <geekosaur> I think I brought it up in #ghc and ended up not bothering to file a bug
2024-11-13 18:04:08 +0100acidjnk_new3(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f71b028663737269d4f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2024-11-13 18:05:22 +0100 <EvanR> rivate-use code points are considered to be assigned characters, but the abstract characters associated with them have no interpretation specified by this standard
2024-11-13 18:05:31 +0100 <EvanR> prepend P
2024-11-13 18:08:24 +0100 <geekosaur> (Ubuntu ships a font with nice PUA chars in it which can be useful in XMonad configs 🙂 )
2024-11-13 18:09:00 +0100euphores(~SASL_euph@user/euphores) (Quit: Leaving.)
2024-11-13 18:13:16 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-13 18:14:49 +0100euphores(~SASL_euph@user/euphores) euphores
2024-11-13 18:18:18 +0100ash3en(~Thunderbi@ip1f10cbd6.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Quit: ash3en)
2024-11-13 18:21:57 +0100AlexZenon(~alzenon@5.139.233.174) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-11-13 18:22:57 +0100AlexNoo(~AlexNoo@5.139.233.174) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-11-13 18:24:52 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Quit: sord937)
2024-11-13 18:26:51 +0100 <hellwolf> �PNG
2024-11-13 18:26:51 +0100 <hellwolf> 
2024-11-13 18:26:51 +0100 <hellwolf> y��p��w��t��p�mKGEѥ�h\Tȟ�A@@ګ�xxr�Ϳ���������JJIҦ�eYR��r�ziqbX\TNΣ��|k��ul^U�l_Ҧ�FDB^UNi\TĜ�{i]̢�tdYIIH����������˽ssm�}l[RMaWPԨ�Ф�̡��m`ޯ�^UOޮ�n`W��n��rqql�ʼ���cc`�´���SSQWPK��p��mcXQk^Ul_VeZR��|����µdd`BBB�����€�z�uf��y`VP��{QLHj]T֩�fZR��o��t��w��oܭ�Ϥ�HEC~~x���CCBUURcc_NJG��|�}k֨�paWwf[\SMJGE
2024-11-13 18:26:51 +0100 <hellwolf> ��zš���z�rc��|�xhש�ECBbb_UUSݮ�HFDPKGGECRMI�oag[S��vVOK���u�j
2024-11-13 18:26:52 +0100 <hellwolf> P
2024-11-13 18:26:52 +0100 <hellwolf> (�,�4���B�98�$7/?�! ��`Ӆ@,a��0�k�je�B\ � �R�(�����30((*)���0��khji3�i��j:�z ��F� �&�f�� �V�6@�m��l���]\��=f{zy�
2024-11-13 18:26:53 +0100 <hellwolf> �)+���^YU
2024-11-13 18:26:54 +0100 <hellwolf> ���mE%�4(E��ɰˠ�q�8(m�� �u_�����Zk�M?P��Ь�G��y�)��|�ޏ��hج
2024-11-13 18:27:11 +0100 <haskellbridge> <hellwolf> sorry, my bad.
2024-11-13 18:28:14 +0100 <tomsmeding> how did that even happen O.o
2024-11-13 18:28:38 +0100 <tomsmeding> how do you accidentally paste a png and send it
2024-11-13 18:28:51 +0100 <hellwolf> emacs <--
2024-11-13 18:29:37 +0100tomsmedingis happy to not use emacs, then :p
2024-11-13 18:30:37 +0100statusbot6(~statusbot@ec2-34-198-122-184.compute-1.amazonaws.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-11-13 18:30:46 +0100statusbot(~statusbot@ec2-34-198-122-184.compute-1.amazonaws.com) statusbot
2024-11-13 18:34:20 +0100 <systemfault> Blame the user of the OS, not the OS itself :P
2024-11-13 18:37:02 +0100Guest|73(~Guest|73@eduroam-int-pat-8-252.ucl.ac.uk)
2024-11-13 18:37:09 +0100Guest|73(~Guest|73@eduroam-int-pat-8-252.ucl.ac.uk) (Client Quit)
2024-11-13 18:48:38 +0100 <EvanR> says "systemfault"
2024-11-13 18:48:52 +0100 <systemfault> EvanR: I'm definitely faulty :)
2024-11-13 18:49:00 +0100acidjnk_new3(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f71b028663737269d4f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-11-13 19:01:13 +0100acidjnk_new3(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f7100fa0b96aa6639bf.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2024-11-13 19:01:15 +0100Pixi(~Pixi@user/pixi) Pixi
2024-11-13 19:02:22 +0100tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) tzh
2024-11-13 19:05:07 +0100JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty
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2024-11-13 19:06:51 +0100ft(~ft@p4fc2a216.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) ft
2024-11-13 19:13:54 +0100wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) wootehfoot
2024-11-13 19:18:17 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-11-13 19:20:25 +0100alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3117-f07c-59a9-a91e-4d8c-de8d.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-11-13 19:21:36 +0100alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3117-f07c-156a-8e41-bb43-7316.rev.sfr.net) alexherbo2
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2024-11-13 19:27:54 +0100red-snail1(~snail@static.151.210.203.116.clients.your-server.de) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2024-11-13 19:28:48 +0100red-snail(~snail@static.151.210.203.116.clients.your-server.de) red-snail
2024-11-13 19:37:42 +0100athostFI(~Atte@176-93-56-50.bb.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-13 19:40:02 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-11-13 19:40:03 +0100 <bailsman> Can it make sense to encapsulate a mutable vector in a state transformer monad whose version of runState internally does something with runST? That way the 'pure world' doesn't really need to know or care how you implemented things internally. You just get an interface against which you can do defined operations on the monad.
2024-11-13 19:40:31 +0100 <bailsman> The one thing I find "concerning" is that this means every function that operates on your data is inside your monad, but maybe that's just good and proper and how things are done.
2024-11-13 19:40:42 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2024-11-13 19:41:04 +0100 <tomsmeding> bailsman: also consider `newtype LinearState s a = LinearState (s %1-> (s, a))` with -XLinearTypes
2024-11-13 19:41:22 +0100 <tomsmeding> (and https://hackage.haskell.org/package/linear-base-0.4.0/docs/Data-Array-Mutable-Linear.html )
2024-11-13 19:41:59 +0100 <tomsmeding> bailsman: but yes, having a monad over ST, where the ST part is hidden, is perfectly fine and sensible haskell
2024-11-13 19:42:38 +0100 <tomsmeding> whether it makes sense to encapsulate access to the vector in a monad if you could also just have the vector as a separate object that you can manipulate in ST, depends on your application
2024-11-13 19:42:45 +0100Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Tuplanolla
2024-11-13 19:43:29 +0100 <bailsman> Well presumably putting your entire codebase in an IO monad would be missing some kind of point. But I wonder if making your own monad with a very clearly defined set of operations is not as bad.
2024-11-13 19:43:50 +0100 <tomsmeding> that design is essentially behind ~every effects library in haskell
2024-11-13 19:44:07 +0100 <tomsmeding> which are ~all monads over IO, but the only methods you can use are the ones from the effects you're handling
2024-11-13 19:44:15 +0100 <tomsmeding> which may _optionall_ include IO, as an explicit effect
2024-11-13 19:47:49 +0100mari-estel(~mari-este@user/mari-estel) mari-estel
2024-11-13 19:53:25 +0100 <EvanR> having an App monad which extends / is based on IO is popular, presumably not missing that point you refer to. But it's also not IO-less
2024-11-13 19:53:38 +0100 <EvanR> and definitely not monad-less
2024-11-13 19:54:32 +0100ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2024-11-13 19:54:36 +0100 <EvanR> you're right to question every function in the program returning an IO type, that sounds ridiculous
2024-11-13 19:54:41 +0100 <EvanR> many operations don't need IO
2024-11-13 19:55:03 +0100 <EvanR> but when you are thinking in OOP terms and everything is based on a mutable object, you can get into an IO trap
2024-11-13 19:55:23 +0100 <EvanR> this is where immutable IntMap can clean things up a lot
2024-11-13 19:55:54 +0100 <EvanR> in lieu of a mutable vector
2024-11-13 20:00:10 +0100wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-11-13 20:16:30 +0100 <lxsameer> is there any way to ask GHC to automatically derive Applicative and Monad for a type like `Foo a`?
2024-11-13 20:16:32 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-11-13 20:17:19 +0100 <tomsmeding> lxsameer: if Foo is a newtype over a thing that already has Applicative and Monad, -XGeneralisedNewtypeDeriving
2024-11-13 20:17:37 +0100 <tomsmeding> if not: no, there may be multiple valid Applicative and/or Monad instances and GHC has no way of knowing which you intended
2024-11-13 20:17:40 +0100 <lxsameer> tomsmeding: oh coool
2024-11-13 20:17:52 +0100mc47(~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47) mc47
2024-11-13 20:17:53 +0100 <lxsameer> tomsmeding: yeah it is a newtype
2024-11-13 20:18:49 +0100 <haskellbridge> <zwro> tbf ghc derives some classes wich could have multiple valid instances
2024-11-13 20:19:11 +0100 <haskellbridge> <zwro> but it's sensible about it
2024-11-13 20:19:29 +0100 <tomsmeding> sure, Ord takes constructor ordering
2024-11-13 20:19:52 +0100 <tomsmeding> that's indeed making a choice, but it's a much less surprising choice than choosing an Applicative instance, I think
2024-11-13 20:19:57 +0100 <tomsmeding> (compare [] and ZipList)
2024-11-13 20:21:19 +0100hellwolf(~user@2001:1530:70:545:6a17:ff75:1fc9:4603) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-11-13 20:21:50 +0100 <haskellbridge> <zwro> Show, Read (cof), Enum, Functor, Foldable, Traversable...
2024-11-13 20:21:59 +0100 <tomsmeding> Functor too?
2024-11-13 20:22:16 +0100 <haskellbridge> <zwro> oh yes
2024-11-13 20:23:25 +0100 <haskellbridge> <zwro> Tuples are the trivial example
2024-11-13 20:24:15 +0100 <tomsmeding> % :set -XDeriveFunctor
2024-11-13 20:24:15 +0100 <yahb2> <no output>
2024-11-13 20:24:21 +0100 <tomsmeding> % data Foo a = Foo (a, a, Int) deriving (Functor)
2024-11-13 20:24:21 +0100 <yahb2> <no output>
2024-11-13 20:24:30 +0100 <tomsmeding> % fmap succ (Foo (1, 2, 3))
2024-11-13 20:24:30 +0100 <yahb2> <interactive>:21:1: error: [GHC-39999] ; • No instance for ‘Show (Foo Integer)’ ; arising from a use of ‘Yahb2Defs.limitedPrint’ ; • In a stmt of an interactive GHCi command: ; ...
2024-11-13 20:24:33 +0100 <tomsmeding> % data Foo a = Foo (a, a, Int) deriving (Functor, Show)
2024-11-13 20:24:33 +0100 <yahb2> <no output>
2024-11-13 20:24:36 +0100 <tomsmeding> % fmap succ (Foo (1, 2, 3))
2024-11-13 20:24:36 +0100 <yahb2> Foo (2,3,3)
2024-11-13 20:24:46 +0100 <tomsmeding> zwro: I'm not sure what alternatives to this you see
2024-11-13 20:27:45 +0100 <haskellbridge> <zwro> This is an opinionated:
2024-11-13 20:27:45 +0100 <haskellbridge> ... long message truncated: https://kf8nh.com/_heisenbridge/media/kf8nh.com/HSmXMIbpQghlwNZFkYjjTngB/VRxH3eG4CT4 (3 lines)
2024-11-13 20:27:58 +0100 <haskellbridge> <zwro> come on, matrix
2024-11-13 20:28:14 +0100 <haskellbridge> <zwro> here
2024-11-13 20:28:14 +0100 <haskellbridge> > fmap succ (0,0)
2024-11-13 20:28:16 +0100 <lambdabot> (0,1)
2024-11-13 20:28:24 +0100 <haskellbridge> <zwro> there
2024-11-13 20:28:24 +0100 <haskellbridge> fmap succ (0,0,0)
2024-11-13 20:28:36 +0100 <haskellbridge> <zwro> er
2024-11-13 20:28:36 +0100 <haskellbridge> > fmap succ (0,0,0)
2024-11-13 20:28:38 +0100 <lambdabot> (0,0,1)
2024-11-13 20:28:52 +0100 <tomsmeding> that's the Functor instance for tuples, not the rules GHC uses for automatically deriving Functor
2024-11-13 20:28:57 +0100 <tomsmeding> I was talking about the deriving machinery
2024-11-13 20:29:25 +0100 <haskellbridge> <zwro> my point is that there is no obvious way, and the deriving mechanism is opinionated
2024-11-13 20:29:40 +0100 <tomsmeding> no, the deriving mechanism does the right thing for a data type
2024-11-13 20:29:50 +0100 <tomsmeding> the only sensible Functor instance for that Foo is the one it derives
2024-11-13 20:30:06 +0100 <tomsmeding> the only sensible Functor instance for (a, b, c) is indeed the one GHC defines for tuples, because it's ((,,) a b c)
2024-11-13 20:30:14 +0100 <tomsmeding> and Functor, by its kind, maps over the last type-argument
2024-11-13 20:30:28 +0100 <tomsmeding> it may look weird, but by the types it must be this
2024-11-13 20:32:03 +0100 <haskellbridge> <zwro> point taken
2024-11-13 20:32:14 +0100 <tomsmeding> similarly for Foldable on tuples
2024-11-13 20:32:20 +0100 <haskellbridge> <zwro> but what about trees?
2024-11-13 20:32:25 +0100 <tomsmeding> I would be the last one to say that `length (1,2,3) == 1` is intuitive
2024-11-13 20:32:25 +0100ash3en(~Thunderbi@ip1f10cbd6.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) ash3en
2024-11-13 20:32:41 +0100 <tomsmeding> zwro: which class? Functor doesn't give one a lot of leeway
2024-11-13 20:33:02 +0100 <tomsmeding> for Ord, Foldable, Traversable you do definitely have a choice of ordering, which constructor does it visit in which order; GHC makes a choice here
2024-11-13 20:33:08 +0100 <c_wraith> that's not intuitive, but I'm not comfortable declaring tuples aren't foldable or that foldable provide length
2024-11-13 20:33:09 +0100 <tomsmeding> but I would argue it's a very sensible choice
2024-11-13 20:33:23 +0100 <c_wraith> Err. Or that foldable shouldn't provide length
2024-11-13 20:33:35 +0100 <tomsmeding> sure
2024-11-13 20:34:08 +0100 <tomsmeding> (my point was: I agree with your feelings, but the types imply this: "feels weird" =/=> "there are other choices for GHC's deriving mechanism")
2024-11-13 20:34:30 +0100 <tomsmeding> (one could of course design the _classes_ differently, but that's a separate topic)
2024-11-13 20:37:13 +0100ash3en(~Thunderbi@ip1f10cbd6.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Client Quit)
2024-11-13 20:40:14 +0100alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3117-f07c-987b-fc29-77ee-addd.rev.sfr.net) alexherbo2
2024-11-13 20:40:38 +0100 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> long time user of "List", now need to use arrays from performance-critical usecase (processing logs, text files of more than 3 million lines)
2024-11-13 20:40:51 +0100 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> can I still think in terms of ana/cata/hylo or will this destroy the performance benefits?
2024-11-13 20:41:46 +0100 <EvanR> Vector is pretty good
2024-11-13 20:41:55 +0100 <EvanR> has a lot of instances like List does
2024-11-13 20:42:03 +0100 <tomsmeding> goya: how are they defined for Vector?
2024-11-13 20:42:14 +0100 <EvanR> but is implemented behind the scenes in a compact way
2024-11-13 20:42:42 +0100 <EvanR> and has a bunch of snazzy rewrite rules for fusion
2024-11-13 20:42:53 +0100abrar(~abrar@pool-72-78-199-167.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2024-11-13 20:43:00 +0100 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> what module for said "Vector"?
2024-11-13 20:43:11 +0100 <EvanR> vector package, Data.Vector
2024-11-13 20:43:28 +0100 <tomsmeding> it has a Foldable instance, and there are various methods
2024-11-13 20:43:35 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2024-11-13 20:43:43 +0100 <tomsmeding> there are no recursion schemes for the thing because, well, it's not a tree
2024-11-13 20:44:25 +0100 <EvanR> you can still treat it like a representable functor
2024-11-13 20:44:40 +0100 <tomsmeding> goya: if you point to the precise "ana/cata/hylo" methods that you mean (there are various packages defining them in various ways iirc), then we could see how compatible the type signatures would be
2024-11-13 20:44:55 +0100 <haskellbridge> <zwro> tomsmeding: you're absolutely correct. my examples were bad. i'm sure i had some kind of problem with driving Functor in the past but can't remember the exact case. maybe later it'll come to me
2024-11-13 20:45:05 +0100 <EvanR> had to review the log carefully to see who "goya" is xD
2024-11-13 20:45:05 +0100abrar(~abrar@pool-72-78-199-167.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
2024-11-13 20:45:50 +0100 <tomsmeding> thirdofmay18081814goya: how should we properly mention you, because it's bridged (and not plumbed) your mxid is not a nick here, so we don't have autocomplete
2024-11-13 20:47:00 +0100 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> uh well I'm mostly reasoning very loosely about cata/ana, wrt List the significant part in both cases is a pattern match on "cons" into some other datatype (cata very loosely) or a pattern match on some other type onto "List" (ana very loosely)
2024-11-13 20:47:07 +0100 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> i.e. the general ability to pattern match
2024-11-13 20:47:21 +0100 <tomsmeding> you should not treat a Vector as a linked list
2024-11-13 20:47:25 +0100 <tomsmeding> but you can foldr
2024-11-13 20:47:30 +0100 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> vs. the imperative representation of arrays as things you "for" loop over
2024-11-13 20:47:31 +0100JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: JuanDaugherty)
2024-11-13 20:47:49 +0100 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> tomsmeding: anything really i usually use my usernames as memory palaces
2024-11-13 20:47:54 +0100 <tomsmeding> and you can unfoldrN (unfoldr with a known target size)
2024-11-13 20:48:24 +0100 <tomsmeding> but really, just glance through https://hackage.haskell.org/package/vector-0.13.2.0/docs/Data-Vector.html
2024-11-13 20:49:04 +0100 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> i'll have a look i was weary of just focusing on the existence of the "Foldable" instance by fear of the possibility it would just throw out the performance benefits
2024-11-13 20:49:17 +0100 <tomsmeding> no Foldable/Traversable are perfectly fine
2024-11-13 20:49:26 +0100 <tomsmeding> what you should be wary of is tail/cons
2024-11-13 20:49:51 +0100 <tomsmeding> read-only you can do essentially whatever you wish; for producing vectors, you should try to produce the whole thing in one go
2024-11-13 20:50:19 +0100weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-11-13 20:51:18 +0100 <tomsmeding> (so tail/init etc. are actually quite fine, they are O(1) and just produce views on the underlying data)
2024-11-13 20:52:31 +0100mantraofpie_(~mantraofp@user/mantraofpie) mantraofpie
2024-11-13 20:52:36 +0100 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> wait sorry I'm not fully understanding, what distinguishes tail/init vs. tail/cons?
2024-11-13 20:52:47 +0100 <tomsmeding> tail and init are read-only
2024-11-13 20:52:51 +0100hellwolf(~user@0e2f-3a3b-aecf-adb3-0f00-4d40-07d0-2001.sta.estpak.ee) hellwolf
2024-11-13 20:52:52 +0100 <tomsmeding> cons creates a new vector
2024-11-13 20:53:46 +0100mantraofpie(~mantraofp@user/mantraofpie) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-11-13 20:53:46 +0100 <tomsmeding> Data.Vector has GHC rewrite rules (RULEs) that try to make creating vectors fast even if you use multiple functions after each other (e.g. cons, append, fromList), but for best results, try to create the whole thing in one go
2024-11-13 20:54:03 +0100 <tomsmeding> as long as you're just reading into an existing immutable vector, almost anything sensible is fast
2024-11-13 20:54:09 +0100 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> oh wow ok the package annotates each function's time complexity
2024-11-13 20:54:13 +0100 <tomsmeding> yes
2024-11-13 20:54:26 +0100 <tomsmeding> `containers` also does (Data.Map etc.)
2024-11-13 20:55:36 +0100 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> ok i will spend a while reading these and their source, highly appreciate the comments tyvm
2024-11-13 20:55:56 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2024-11-13 20:56:13 +0100 <tomsmeding> reading the source here is not likely to be very enlightening :D
2024-11-13 20:56:23 +0100 <tomsmeding> vector tries a bit too hard to be generic with a bunch of stuff
2024-11-13 20:56:33 +0100 <lxsameer> in the following syntax `class Monad m => MonadReader r m | m -> r where` that pipe reads as MonadReader on r m OR m -> r, correct?
2024-11-13 20:56:42 +0100 <tomsmeding> no
2024-11-13 20:56:46 +0100 <tomsmeding> -XFunctionalDependencies
2024-11-13 20:56:53 +0100 <tomsmeding> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/functional_dependencies.html#extens…
2024-11-13 20:57:12 +0100ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2024-11-13 20:57:41 +0100 <lxsameer> tomsmeding: was that `no` for me?
2024-11-13 20:57:52 +0100 <geekosaur> in general a single vertical bar in Haskell is read as "where" or "such that"
2024-11-13 20:57:56 +0100 <geekosaur> not as "or"
2024-11-13 20:57:58 +0100 <tomsmeding> lxsameer: yes :)
2024-11-13 20:58:09 +0100 <lxsameer> ah got it, thanks folks
2024-11-13 20:58:11 +0100 <tomsmeding> the `|` is more like the `|` in a list comprehension, and the `->` is a bit like implication here
2024-11-13 20:58:14 +0100 <tomsmeding> but read the manual
2024-11-13 20:59:15 +0100 <lxsameer> tomsmeding: since I don't know the name of this concept, i don't know what to search in the manual
2024-11-13 20:59:18 +0100ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2024-11-13 21:00:05 +0100caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye)
2024-11-13 21:00:44 +0100caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
2024-11-13 21:04:30 +0100mari-estel(~mari-este@user/mari-estel) (Quit: good night)
2024-11-13 21:07:45 +0100alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3117-f07c-987b-fc29-77ee-addd.rev.sfr.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2024-11-13 21:08:26 +0100 <yin> functional dependencies
2024-11-13 21:08:42 +0100 <yin> it's a language extension
2024-11-13 21:08:43 +0100 <lxsameer> cheers
2024-11-13 21:10:20 +0100 <dmj`> haskell report, "Modules may be mutually recursive."
2024-11-13 21:12:15 +0100sprotte24(~sprotte24@p200300d16f059400e8d39b8ffa006815.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2024-11-13 21:12:58 +0100CoolMa7(~CoolMa7@ip5f5b8957.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) CoolMa7
2024-11-13 21:14:16 +0100 <tomsmeding> lxsameer: https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/functional_dependencies.html#extens…
2024-11-13 21:14:18 +0100 <tomsmeding> :p
2024-11-13 21:16:00 +0100 <lxsameer> tomsmeding: thank you
2024-11-13 21:25:23 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2024-11-13 21:27:55 +0100 <lxsameer> I have a `Conext` type that basically is the state of my program, I pass it almost everywhere. At the moment it's just a record. Some functions will return a new context. Does it make sense to do something like `newtype Context a = Context (ReaderT State .... a) deriving (Monad, MonadReader, ....)`?
2024-11-13 21:32:49 +0100CrunchyFlakes_(~CrunchyFl@ip1f13e94e.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2024-11-13 21:32:52 +0100CrunchyFlakes(~CrunchyFl@31.19.233.78) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2024-11-13 21:32:55 +0100mestre(~mestre@192.145.217.7)
2024-11-13 21:34:16 +0100mestre(~mestre@192.145.217.7) (Client Quit)
2024-11-13 21:37:45 +0100 <mauke> sure, except Reader doesn't really let you modify the state
2024-11-13 21:37:55 +0100 <mauke> unless you put IORefs in your record or something
2024-11-13 21:38:22 +0100Smiles(uid551636@id-551636.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2024-11-13 21:39:05 +0100briandaed(~root@185.234.210.211) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-11-13 21:40:25 +0100alp(~alp@2001:861:e3d6:8f80:483c:b8c6:93d5:82bd) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-11-13 21:40:43 +0100alp(~alp@2001:861:e3d6:8f80:8dec:7d0f:9187:87d0)
2024-11-13 21:43:21 +0100 <yin> lxsameer: if you want to take the opportunity to get fancy https://blog.csongor.co.uk/time-travel-in-haskell-for-dummies/
2024-11-13 21:43:39 +0100 <yin> and fall in live with Haskell all over again
2024-11-13 21:43:47 +0100 <yin> s/live/love
2024-11-13 21:43:58 +0100 <yin> (laugh)
2024-11-13 21:45:52 +0100 <lxsameer> mauke: yin thanks folks
2024-11-13 21:50:14 +0100lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-11-13 21:55:16 +0100weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2024-11-13 22:02:14 +0100cuteguest(~cuteguest@67-134-33-194.dia.static.qwest.net)
2024-11-13 22:02:17 +0100Everything(~Everythin@46.211.104.82) Everything
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2024-11-13 22:13:15 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) ()
2024-11-13 22:15:48 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah
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2024-11-13 22:31:10 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2024-11-13 22:34:18 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) ()
2024-11-13 22:53:04 +0100agent314(~quassel@static-198-44-129-53.cust.tzulo.com) agent314
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2024-11-13 23:03:53 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
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2024-11-13 23:32:07 +0100Digitteknohippie(~user@user/digit) Digit
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2024-11-13 23:32:58 +0100ash3en(~Thunderbi@31.16.203.214) ash3en
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2024-11-13 23:34:07 +0100ash3en(~Thunderbi@31.16.203.214) ash3en
2024-11-13 23:38:38 +0100DigitteknohippieDigit
2024-11-13 23:40:40 +0100alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3117-f07c-987b-fc29-77ee-addd.rev.sfr.net) alexherbo2
2024-11-13 23:44:13 +0100visilii_(~visilii@85.172.76.118)
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2024-11-13 23:47:44 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah
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