2024/08/23

2024-08-23 00:01:13 +0200AlexNoo(~AlexNoo@5.139.232.94)
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2024-08-23 00:28:20 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> turns out proving a recursive function diverges is an absolute pain, you need heavy domain theory
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2024-08-23 02:07:29 +0200 <monochrom> should also holds for proving convergence :)
2024-08-23 02:09:12 +0200 <monochrom> More orthogonally, it is because Haskell is non-strict and so the domains of many types are very non-flat.
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2024-08-23 04:57:22 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> is there a small lazy functional language with semantics fully specified in some proof assistant/interactive theorem prover?
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2024-08-23 07:43:57 +0200neuroevolutus(~neuroevol@206.217.206.115)
2024-08-23 07:49:03 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Bowuigi> thirdofmay18081814goya if you can't find any, combinatory logic (paired with any kind of bracket abstraction) can be given lazy semantics without much trouble
2024-08-23 07:50:26 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Bowuigi> Oh also for proving/disproving divergence you can cheat in a limited number of cases using hylomorphisms and recursive coalgebras
2024-08-23 07:52:57 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl)
2024-08-23 07:54:15 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Bowuigi> Essentially, if you rewrite the function to check into "hylo alg coalg", alg requires all the subproblems to be solved and coalg generates infinite amounts of them, the function diverges
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2024-08-23 07:57:44 +0200 <haskellbridge> <Bowuigi> And if coalg happens to be a recursive coalgebra (for all algebras alg2, there exists an unique h such that "h = alg2 . fmap h . coalg") and alg is total, the function converges to a value (to know which one, just run it lol)
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2024-08-23 09:17:13 +0200akegalj(~akegalj@20-163.dsl.iskon.hr)
2024-08-23 09:19:14 +0200vpan(~vpan@212.117.1.172)
2024-08-23 09:21:24 +0200 <akegalj> Hey. Cooworker asked me yesterday "Is `f . g $ a` always equal to `f $ g $ a`" and my intuition was yes via reasoning `(f . g) a = ((.) f g) a = (\x -> f (g x)) a = f (g a)` . Is this true?
2024-08-23 09:21:56 +0200 <akegalj> Later he showed me a contraexample https://play.haskell.org/saved/wByKQ2fk
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2024-08-23 09:26:51 +0200paddymahoney(~paddymaho@pool-99-250-30-88.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-08-23 09:29:38 +0200 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> You got me, i thought theyre equivalent
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2024-08-23 09:31:46 +0200 <lortabac> GHC has a special rule for ($) to make it work with rank-n types
2024-08-23 09:32:13 +0200 <lortabac> but not for (.)
2024-08-23 09:32:41 +0200neuroevolutus(~neuroevol@206.217.206.115) (Quit: Client closed)
2024-08-23 09:32:55 +0200 <c_wraith> "works" if you turn on -XImpredicativeTypes with a sufficiently new GHC
2024-08-23 09:33:03 +0200 <c_wraith> but the monad instance has a type error anyway
2024-08-23 09:39:06 +0200 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> So if i were to reimplement $ myself as $$$ it would break too?
2024-08-23 09:41:14 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl)
2024-08-23 09:41:25 +0200paddymahoney(~paddymaho@pool-99-250-10-137.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
2024-08-23 09:41:46 +0200 <lortabac> yes you would get the same error
2024-08-23 09:42:15 +0200[exa](~exa@user/exa/x-3587197)
2024-08-23 09:47:36 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2024-08-23 09:55:32 +0200kuribas(~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be)
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2024-08-23 10:04:20 +0200 <akegalj> lortabac: is this rule defined in ghc or in stdlib?
2024-08-23 10:04:43 +0200 <lortabac> it's in the compiler
2024-08-23 10:04:50 +0200 <akegalj> ty
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2024-08-23 10:33:41 +0200danse-nr3(~danse-nr3@user/danse-nr3)
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2024-08-23 10:55:04 +0200youthlic1youthlic
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2024-08-23 11:06:48 +0200 <dminuoso> akegalj: Its a rather silly hack to make something like `runST $ ...` possible.
2024-08-23 11:07:05 +0200 <dminuoso> From old days before the new ImpredicativeTypes.
2024-08-23 11:07:34 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl)
2024-08-23 11:07:40 +0200 <dminuoso> (or not just "something like", but exactly that)
2024-08-23 11:07:51 +0200 <ncf> that's not a counterexample. if both terms are not well-typed it doesn't make sense to ask whether they're equal
2024-08-23 11:08:16 +0200 <ncf> (well-typed with the same type, i should add)
2024-08-23 11:08:38 +0200 <dminuoso> ncf: I think it does make sense to ask the question. If one is well-typed and the other is not, then the question of equality is justified.
2024-08-23 11:08:53 +0200 <mauke> don't need ImpredicativeTypes if you have BlockArguments
2024-08-23 11:09:12 +0200 <dminuoso> Won't convince me to turn that extension on any time soon
2024-08-23 11:09:20 +0200 <dminuoso> I want to keep my money.
2024-08-23 11:11:03 +0200youthlic1(~Thunderbi@user/youthlic)
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2024-08-23 11:22:59 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl)
2024-08-23 11:25:14 +0200 <danse-nr3> err... technically just your currency
2024-08-23 11:26:19 +0200bliminse(~bliminse@user/bliminse) (Quit: leaving)
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2024-08-23 11:48:03 +0200driib3(~driib@vmi931078.contaboserver.net) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2024-08-23 11:48:44 +0200driib3(~driib@vmi931078.contaboserver.net)
2024-08-23 11:51:29 +0200danse-nr3(~danse-nr3@user/danse-nr3) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-08-23 11:52:19 +0200 <jackdk> Is there an extension which allows multiple BlockArguments to a function? We could call it BlockChainArguments
2024-08-23 11:52:20 +0200danse-nr3(~danse-nr3@user/danse-nr3)
2024-08-23 11:52:42 +0200 <jackdk> actually, ... maybe there are enough of those on the internet already
2024-08-23 11:53:21 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl)
2024-08-23 11:53:30 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-08-23 11:55:51 +0200dysthesis(~dysthesis@user/dysthesis)
2024-08-23 11:56:07 +0200 <int-e> why do you need another extension for that?
2024-08-23 11:56:41 +0200 <int-e> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/289cQIzD
2024-08-23 11:57:03 +0200Smiles(uid551636@id-551636.lymington.irccloud.com)
2024-08-23 11:57:37 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-08-23 11:57:48 +0200 <jackdk> Mostly I'm just here to make the Haskell Ă— Blockchain joke
2024-08-23 12:02:47 +0200 <dminuoso> Oh that's what brought you to libera?
2024-08-23 12:04:26 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) (Quit: WeeChat 4.2.2)
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2024-08-23 12:14:14 +0200danse-nr3(~danse-nr3@user/danse-nr3) ()
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2024-08-23 12:54:23 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl)
2024-08-23 12:54:41 +0200MattByName(~Matthew@user/MattByName)
2024-08-23 12:57:16 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4)
2024-08-23 12:57:43 +0200vishalpaudel(~vishalpau@user/vishalpaudel)
2024-08-23 12:57:46 +0200 <vishalpaudel> hello
2024-08-23 12:58:57 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-08-23 13:03:57 +0200ash3en(~Thunderbi@2a02:3100:7cf1:b400:fcfa:8dfc:a95e:5b4c) (Quit: ash3en)
2024-08-23 13:06:39 +0200son0p(~ff@2800:e2:f80:ee7::1) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-08-23 13:09:48 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl)
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2024-08-23 13:29:09 +0200 <jackdk> dminuoso: not really, I've been hanging since the last couple of years of freenode
2024-08-23 13:29:32 +0200 <jackdk> But the joke spoke to me for some reason
2024-08-23 13:29:59 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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2024-08-23 13:46:21 +0200 <haskellbridge> <thirdofmay18081814goya> Bowuigi: thanks a lot for the comments!
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2024-08-23 14:26:34 +0200JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty)
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2024-08-23 14:33:11 +0200fluffyballoon(45ce440a48@2a03:6000:1812:100::e2) ()
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2024-08-23 14:40:58 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl)
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2024-08-23 14:48:07 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "")
2024-08-23 14:54:39 +0200lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer)
2024-08-23 14:55:18 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-08-23 14:56:23 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl)
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2024-08-23 15:05:03 +0200youthlic(~Thunderbi@user/youthlic)
2024-08-23 15:07:58 +0200 <lxsameer> is it possible to disable dwarf on a project without recompiling ghc?
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2024-08-23 17:26:33 +0200ZharMeny`ZharMeny
2024-08-23 17:28:03 +0200 <Leary> akegalj: It is indeed true. That doesn't imply, however, that if one term is well-typed then so is the other---that's a different question entirely.
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2024-08-23 21:59:59 +0200kimiamania2(~65804703@user/kimiamania) (Quit: PegeLinux)
2024-08-23 22:00:12 +0200 <energizer> does haskell have a library for making fancy tables like https://gt.rstudio.com/
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2024-08-23 22:23:30 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@user/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-08-23 22:26:35 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> I wish, that looks great
2024-08-23 22:26:49 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> But check out tabular
2024-08-23 22:29:10 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@user/gentauro)
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2024-08-23 23:01:16 +0200kimiamania2(~65804703@user/kimiamania) (Quit: PegeLinux)
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2024-08-23 23:05:12 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl)
2024-08-23 23:07:15 +0200 <EvanR> I can hear 10,000 web programmers screaming out at you energizer
2024-08-23 23:07:24 +0200 <EvanR> "just use CSS"
2024-08-23 23:08:35 +0200 <energizer> i feel like <table> is the way to make a table on the web, but i'm no expert
2024-08-23 23:09:58 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-08-23 23:11:05 +0200 <energizer> but anyway the the library is backend-independent. you take the data structure and can render the table in html or latex or whatever
2024-08-23 23:11:12 +0200bwolf(c3bc363dd1@2a03:6000:1812:100::180)
2024-08-23 23:12:14 +0200alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3304-2058-8d0d-a132-e771-825f.rev.sfr.net)
2024-08-23 23:17:53 +0200bilegeek(~bilegeek@2600:1008:b001:5ba2:7995:67a5:d5c1:d120)
2024-08-23 23:20:38 +0200merijn(~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl)
2024-08-23 23:20:58 +0200 <EvanR> making tables with <table> is so 1996
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2024-08-23 23:38:10 +0200 <RussetParrotBear> All the cool kids these days make their tables with circular SVGs and an infinite series of lines...
2024-08-23 23:38:28 +0200 <RussetParrotBear> Embedding tables gets difficult, I hear.
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