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2024-07-24 02:07:18 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> is there any way to assign priority to resolve functional dependencies? e.g. if two instance declarations match, to resolve the conflict by picking a preferred one
2024-07-24 02:09:30 +0000 <davean> There is some stuff for that, but if you've got that its quite possible you have a serious issue. Can you give some more details about when you run into this?
2024-07-24 02:12:40 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> oh there might be a cleaner way. i just have to specify that two types must differ, then there should be no conflict
2024-07-24 02:13:02 +0000 <geekosaur> "just"
2024-07-24 02:13:20 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> such a simple thing should be, well, simple, right? ; ;
2024-07-24 02:13:24 +0000 <geekosaur> ("must be the same" can be done in the typechecker; "must be different" requires a runtime witness)
2024-07-24 02:13:53 +0000 <geekosaur> the typechecker can handle "can be different", though)
2024-07-24 02:14:37 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> 'can be different' is just the default, innit? e.g. data Foo a b
2024-07-24 02:14:45 +0000 <geekosaur> yes
2024-07-24 02:15:08 +0000 <geekosaur> but if you want to express that "b" cannot be equal to "a", you have a problem
2024-07-24 02:15:30 +0000 <davean> The thing about a functional dependency is its *functional* it points to *exactly one*
2024-07-24 02:15:44 +0000 <davean> If it didn't, it wouldn't be a functional dependency.
2024-07-24 02:15:51 +0000 <davean> it woudl just be a dependency
2024-07-24 02:16:05 +0000 <davean> So more details would really help
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2024-07-24 02:18:19 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> working on minimal example
2024-07-24 02:21:45 +0000ddellacosta(~ddellacos@ool-44c73d29.dyn.optonline.net)
2024-07-24 02:21:45 +0000acidsys(~crameleon@openSUSE/member/crameleon)
2024-07-24 02:23:22 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> here we go: https://play.haskell.org/saved/PfBTmjQp
2024-07-24 02:25:06 +0000 <davean> c determines a b in your example. What you have there *is not a fucntioanl dependency in any way*
2024-07-24 02:25:14 +0000 <davean> I explicitely exactly violates the "functional" part
2024-07-24 02:25:57 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> in which part does it do that?
2024-07-24 02:27:12 +0000 <davean> "(Frac a b) (Frac b a)" could be equal to "(Frac a x) (Frac x d)" but you claim that it resolves to both Float and Frac a d
2024-07-24 02:27:38 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> ah yes, that's exactly my question
2024-07-24 02:27:39 +0000 <davean> You can't *functionally* depend to more than one thing, *functional* means exactly one
2024-07-24 02:27:50 +0000 <davean> So this is in no way a functional dependency
2024-07-24 02:28:00 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> that much i understand
2024-07-24 02:28:02 +0000 <davean> It is specificly a *non*-functional dependency
2024-07-24 02:28:34 +0000 <davean> So you can do multiprarameter type class with preference.
2024-07-24 02:28:57 +0000 <davean> But a b *can not tell you what c is*
2024-07-24 02:29:06 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> but if i can say in the type signature that a!=d in the "(Frac a x) (Frac x d)" case, then the result type is uniquely determined by the two inputs, i.e. functional
2024-07-24 02:29:34 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> since it will no longer match the "(Frac a b) (Frac b a)" case
2024-07-24 02:29:37 +0000 <davean> You can prove something is the same
2024-07-24 02:29:59 +0000 <davean> Its a bit hard to prove, and I don't mean like "thats a lot of work" but in general to prove something is different.
2024-07-24 02:30:19 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> how do i do the preference thing then?
2024-07-24 02:30:53 +0000acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e72cfb436d5a267264431f6c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2024-07-24 02:30:55 +0000 <davean> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/instances.html#instance-overlap
2024-07-24 02:31:27 +0000 <davean> Are you sure tehre isn't a good c -> a b chain that you might use?
2024-07-24 02:31:58 +0000 <davean> You are determining things by the result type here, NOT by the left hand types
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2024-07-24 02:32:56 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> if i understand you correctly, you're saying that "class Mult a b c | a b -> c where" means "determine the types of a and b from c"?
2024-07-24 02:33:26 +0000 <davean> I believe you mgiht have typed something wrong.
2024-07-24 02:33:50 +0000 <davean> That says "Given a and b, we ALWAYS KNOW EXACTLY WHAT C IS"
2024-07-24 02:34:33 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> that's what i thought, yes
2024-07-24 02:34:49 +0000 <davean> Something along the lines of "c -> a b" is more what you have
2024-07-24 02:35:09 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> and your suggestion, "c -> a b", means "given c, we know exactly what a and b are"?
2024-07-24 02:35:20 +0000 <davean> Note here that a type might not be specific *until runtime*
2024-07-24 02:35:27 +0000 <davean> Unicorn_Princess: yes
2024-07-24 02:35:51 +0000 <davean> Thats what makes proving inequality problematic on a fundimental level
2024-07-24 02:36:16 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> the overlappinginstances stuff is deprecated, i assume using it will cause more trouble than it's worth?
2024-07-24 02:36:30 +0000 <geekosaur> the extension is deprecated
2024-07-24 02:36:45 +0000 <geekosaur> there are pragmas these days instead, which give you more fine-grained control
2024-07-24 02:37:12 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> ah i see
2024-07-24 02:37:18 +0000 <davean> Unicorn_Princess: your actual information has to blow from c to a & b given your example.
2024-07-24 02:37:24 +0000 <davean> *flow
2024-07-24 02:37:37 +0000 <davean> Not that your example might be your entire thing
2024-07-24 02:38:26 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> this is because haskell determines types 'backwards', i.e. from a desired result type, it figures out the input types?
2024-07-24 02:38:38 +0000 <davean> No haskell does not have a direction
2024-07-24 02:38:43 +0000 <davean> Your *example* has a direction
2024-07-24 02:39:04 +0000 <davean> Because its where the determinant information is
2024-07-24 02:39:15 +0000 <davean> Haskell works from all directions simultaniously.
2024-07-24 02:39:49 +0000 <davean> But, the only place in your example the information can exist in, is in c, thus the only way to work out the types is *from* c
2024-07-24 02:40:05 +0000 <davean> anything else would lead to contradictions
2024-07-24 02:40:20 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> ah, you mean because they overlap?
2024-07-24 02:40:35 +0000 <davean> yes, and more how they overlap
2024-07-24 02:40:52 +0000 <davean> Some overlaps are more problematic than others
2024-07-24 02:42:08 +0000 <davean> Some overlaps won't lead to cascading problems where the issue could be anywhere. Yours does
2024-07-24 02:42:24 +0000 <davean> Unless you resolve it from C
2024-07-24 02:42:37 +0000 <davean> If you resolve it from c you'll get consistent results
2024-07-24 02:42:56 +0000 <davean> (with that example)
2024-07-24 02:46:30 +0000puke(~puke@user/puke) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-07-24 02:46:49 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> hmm i see. since the compiler has trouble determining if two types differ at compile time, it doesn't consider the signature "Mult (Frac a b) (Frac b a)" as more specific than "Mult (Frac a x) (Frac x d)", and so it needs the third element too to disambiguate?
2024-07-24 02:46:55 +0000puke(~puke@user/puke)
2024-07-24 02:47:08 +0000 <davean> It doesn't have "trouble" you can't either in general, its not generally possible
2024-07-24 02:47:33 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> well, that's just a specific kind of 'trouble' >_>
2024-07-24 02:47:33 +0000 <davean> There is, infact, nothing "more specific" about that
2024-07-24 02:47:57 +0000 <davean> If you had something concrete and actually provable, you could prefer it by preference
2024-07-24 02:49:25 +0000 <davean> so you can actually do some preference here with a type equality witness
2024-07-24 02:50:38 +0000 <davean> you could have like "instance (a :~: d) => Mult (Frac a x) (Frac x d)" and "instance Mult (Frac a x) (Frac x d)" for example, with an order
2024-07-24 02:50:45 +0000 <davean> but that won't give you a functional dependency
2024-07-24 02:50:56 +0000 <davean> it could give you an associated type maybe?
2024-07-24 02:51:23 +0000 <davean> but then you'll have other issues because you'll only be forward chaining and never backward chaining
2024-07-24 02:51:50 +0000 <davean> So you'll lose about half of your type inference
2024-07-24 02:55:27 +0000puke(~puke@user/puke) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2024-07-24 02:56:00 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> well i am way out of my type-depth, so what i'm getting from this is it's more trouble than it's worth, even if i could get it to work
2024-07-24 02:57:58 +0000 <davean> I really expect yo uwant something "c -> a b"ish
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2024-07-24 03:01:49 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> blindly replacing the "a b -> c" with "c -> a b" gets me even more red squigglies. i think i've been pressing my hand against this particular hot stove long enough
2024-07-24 03:03:17 +0000 <glguy> You could toss out the instance that generates a Float result and be explicit when you think you're done and provide a: Frac a a -> Float accessor
2024-07-24 03:03:55 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> that's the plan, i think
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2024-07-24 08:01:38 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> is there a way in haskell to specify the type of a numeric literal, other than (2 :: Float)? something like 2.f32 perhaps
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2024-07-24 08:06:25 +0000 <mauke> don't think so
2024-07-24 08:06:30 +0000simendsjo(~user@2001:2044:1413:800:c4c9:16db:19ee:b47c)
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2024-07-24 08:11:56 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> this specifically is my problem: https://play.haskell.org/saved/sliTftDP
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2024-07-24 08:12:40 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> i've realized i can simplify my units system a lot, since i have so few units i'll actually use, i can simply define what multiplying each pair should produce
2024-07-24 08:13:25 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> and it seems to work, except now haskell is being picky about the first argument
2024-07-24 08:13:40 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> (in the case it's a numeric literal)
2024-07-24 08:14:41 +0000benjaminl(~benjaminl@user/benjaminl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-07-24 08:17:00 +0000 <Lears> Unicorn_Princess: You might get away with `instance float ~ Float => QMul float ...` depending on what other instances you want, otherwise you just have to annotate the literals.
2024-07-24 08:17:53 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> what does that syntax mean?
2024-07-24 08:18:25 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> a ~ in a type signature, scary...
2024-07-24 08:18:48 +0000 <Lears> It's an equality constraint. It means the instances matches /before/ restricting the variable to Float.
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2024-07-24 08:22:31 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> well i don't understand that, but ghc gets angry after i add in the other instances. hmm.
2024-07-24 08:23:58 +0000 <Lears> OVERLAPPING/OVERLAPS may also help, but again, it depends on the instances.
2024-07-24 08:27:14 +0000motherfsck(~motherfsc@user/motherfsck) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2024-07-24 08:30:31 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> hm, they really shouldn't be overlapping tho. anyway, here's what happens: https://play.haskell.org/saved/RJi0C7Co
2024-07-24 08:30:53 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> and i really don't understand how those instances conflict
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2024-07-24 08:38:57 +0000 <Lears> Yeah, that's not the instance heads overlapping, it's the fundeps conflicting again. To be consistent with the first instance (`float, Qty a -> Qty a`) the second (`Qty DMass, Qty DMassFrac -> Qty DMass`) would need `Qty DMassFrac` on the RHS.
2024-07-24 08:39:11 +0000 <Lears> Anyway, just rollback to before the equality constraint and get used to annotating.
2024-07-24 08:39:29 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> yeah i think i'll go with that, thanks for trying :)
2024-07-24 08:39:51 +0000motherfsck(~motherfsc@user/motherfsck)
2024-07-24 08:40:20 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> i'll just make an "as_grams :: Float -> Mass" function to make it ergonomic
2024-07-24 08:40:54 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> so "as_grams 12" instead of "12 .* g"
2024-07-24 08:41:16 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> or rather "(12 :: Float) .* g"
2024-07-24 08:42:55 +0000 <Lears> Another option would be: `grams :: Float -> Mass`, then: (12 `grams`)
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2024-07-24 10:01:25 +0000 <danse-nr3> i find haddock's module descriptions slightly awkward. They begin with {-|, but there is nothing to be written straight after the |
2024-07-24 10:04:14 +0000 <danse-nr3> | is visually leading attention towards what follows it on the same line. It's catchy to the point that i always start with uppercase afterwards (in function docstrings) because it looks better
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2024-07-24 10:33:07 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> danse-nr3: are you talking about needing at least one space after the | ?
2024-07-24 10:33:42 +0000cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2024-07-24 10:33:42 +0000 <danse-nr3> no i mean that in haddock examples (and in my common usecase) there is nothing to be written in the | line
2024-07-24 10:34:15 +0000 <haskellbridge> <sm> I'm still mystified, sorry :)
2024-07-24 10:34:39 +0000 <danse-nr3> maybe because the metadata come before the plain text https://haskell-haddock.readthedocs.io/latest/markup.html#the-module-description
2024-07-24 10:35:11 +0000 <danse-nr3> but i guess that if i don't add metadata i can start right after the |
2024-07-24 10:35:15 +0000 <danse-nr3> could work for a while
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2024-07-24 11:28:32 +0000guy(~guy@31.94.68.127)
2024-07-24 11:28:37 +0000 <guy> hi
2024-07-24 11:28:44 +0000 <guy> im trying to find a replacement for a library
2024-07-24 11:28:52 +0000 <guy> i was using a version with HMatrix
2024-07-24 11:28:55 +0000 <guy> but it uses blas
2024-07-24 11:28:59 +0000 <guy> (lapack)
2024-07-24 11:29:16 +0000 <guy> which id ont want to have to install each time, as i forget how, and its not platform independent
2024-07-24 11:29:38 +0000 <guy> anytime i use the import with the HMatrix dependency i get stuck searching around online, and its killing my productivity at critical times
2024-07-24 11:29:40 +0000 <guy> gaussianSample
2024-07-24 11:29:46 +0000 <guy> is the function i wish to replace
2024-07-24 11:30:02 +0000 <guy> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hmatrix-0.16.1.5/docs/src/Numeric-LinearAlgebra-Random.html#ga…
2024-07-24 11:30:34 +0000 <guy> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hmatrix-0.16.1.5/docs/Numeric-LinearAlgebra-HMatrix.html#v:gau…
2024-07-24 11:30:40 +0000 <guy> (snd link is better)
2024-07-24 11:31:03 +0000 <guy> it takes a list of means and a covariance matrix
2024-07-24 11:31:21 +0000 <guy> does anyone know of a package that offers an alternative to this function that does not rely on Clibs?
2024-07-24 11:31:35 +0000 <guy> or alternatively would anyone be willing to help me rewrite it?
2024-07-24 11:31:54 +0000 <guy> its quite complicated to do properly and relies on some cholitsky factorisations and stuff i dont want to have to do this
2024-07-24 11:32:40 +0000gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
2024-07-24 11:32:57 +0000 <guy> i can find plenty of libraries with the gausin distribution on a line, but not many (any?) that do it in nd
2024-07-24 11:43:58 +0000lxsameer(~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer)
2024-07-24 11:48:26 +0000CiaoSen(~Jura@2a05:5800:2b1:8400:e6b9:7aff:fe80:3d03)
2024-07-24 11:54:14 +0000 <guy> ok i found a good how to here
2024-07-24 11:54:15 +0000 <guy> http://5.178.65.204/topic/details/how-to-correctly-build-cabal-project-using-hmatrix-under-windows…
2024-07-24 11:54:51 +0000 <guy> basically;
2024-07-24 11:54:52 +0000 <guy> pacman -S mingw-w64-x86_64-blas mingw-w64-x86_64-lapack
2024-07-24 11:55:01 +0000 <guy> C:\msys64\mingw64\bin
2024-07-24 11:55:06 +0000 <guy> (on path)
2024-07-24 11:55:19 +0000 <guy> (using msys2)
2024-07-24 11:55:25 +0000 <guy> derp
2024-07-24 11:55:27 +0000 <guy> ciao
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2024-07-24 14:38:00 +0000liberalogica(~francesco@151.37.173.253)
2024-07-24 14:38:29 +0000 <liberalogica> i am trying glirc
2024-07-24 14:40:07 +0000 <EvanR> nice
2024-07-24 14:41:17 +0000 <liberalogica> terminal management looks neat, although it's not obvious how to interact with the app (through a prefix or some key combination?)
2024-07-24 14:41:46 +0000 <liberalogica> i'll move to offtopic i guess
2024-07-24 14:45:45 +0000 <EvanR> there's a channel for it?
2024-07-24 14:45:48 +0000 <EvanR> #glirc ?
2024-07-24 14:46:24 +0000 <liberalogica> seems so, thanks
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2024-07-24 16:49:13 +0000 <cheater> what the hell is that url?
2024-07-24 16:50:40 +0000 <cheater> apparently, it's everyerror.com
2024-07-24 16:50:46 +0000 <cheater> how did he end up with an IP?
2024-07-24 16:50:52 +0000 <cheater> so weird
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2024-07-24 18:22:33 +0000prolic_(~sasa@181.122.138.24)
2024-07-24 18:22:59 +0000 <prolic_> mauke - hi my friend
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2024-07-24 18:25:24 +0000CrunchyFlakes(~CrunchyFl@ip92348280.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2024-07-24 18:25:57 +0000 <prolic_> FYI: I was working on reviving the outdated and unmaintained HsQML library for Haskell, which adds Qt5 support with Qt Quick QML. Yesterday I made it work and run for the first time.
2024-07-24 18:26:00 +0000 <prolic_> https://github.com/prolic/HsQML
2024-07-24 18:29:36 +0000 <EvanR> admirable
2024-07-24 18:33:58 +0000 <juri_> yay. :)
2024-07-24 18:37:22 +0000 <prolic_> I'm trying to get some demos running right now
2024-07-24 18:38:18 +0000 <geekosaur> 👍
2024-07-24 18:42:08 +0000 <prolic_> https://github.com/prolic/hsqml-demo-morris/
2024-07-24 18:42:30 +0000 <prolic_> HsQML-based implementation of Nine Men's Morris (written in Haskell)
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2024-07-24 22:35:48 +0000 <prolic_> https://github.com/prolic/hsqml-demo-notes
2024-07-24 22:35:57 +0000 <prolic_> a second demo on Qt5 in Haskell made running
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