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2024-06-06 04:50:10 +0000 <Inst> yin: i was just wondering because i wanted to do `or` in lieu of <|> or when I needed a custom implementation
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2024-06-06 05:46:54 +0000haetsal(~quassel@221.138.168.192)
2024-06-06 05:48:15 +0000philopsos1(~caecilius@user/philopsos)
2024-06-06 05:49:10 +0000 <haetsal> I am planning to learn Haskell and Clojure. Which language should I learn first?
2024-06-06 05:50:19 +0000bilegeek(~bilegeek@2600:1008:b01f:a4f3:2e65:d01c:1be0:49de)
2024-06-06 05:51:26 +0000 <haskellbridge> <Jade> You're asking in a very biased space, I think
2024-06-06 05:52:27 +0000 <haetsal> T.T Where should I ask the question? At Rust channel?
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2024-06-06 05:59:36 +0000 <probie> haetsal: Either learn them concurrently, or flip a coin to decide. They're both functional languages that attempt to eschew side effects (although Clojure has a few more difficulties here because you'll often use java objects), but apart from that they're quite different
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2024-06-06 07:41:55 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> haetsal: I like the "functions first" approach, but Clojure is a disaster imo
2024-06-06 07:45:59 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> Not a friend of ad-hoc polymorphism in general. But clojure takes it to a new level
2024-06-06 07:47:25 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> Back when I did clojurescript, stuff would just crash at runtime or produce garbage due to the ridiculous amount of ad-hoc polymorphism
2024-06-06 07:47:48 +0000 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> Impossible to change code once you wrote it
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2024-06-06 09:55:32 +0000 <leah2> i know both, learning haskell first has more didactic purpose :)
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2024-06-06 10:15:07 +0000 <ncf> learn to think with types as soon as possible
2024-06-06 10:15:13 +0000ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2024-06-06 10:15:55 +0000 <ncf> (so, haskell)
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2024-06-06 13:36:56 +0000 <haskellbridge> <zwro> idris first!
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2024-06-06 20:25:26 +0000 <haskellbridge> <oak> My personal recommendation is to skip Clojure altogether, and if you want to learn proper LISP, maybe go to Common Lisp or something
2024-06-06 20:25:28 +0000 <haskellbridge> <oak> Couple of years ago I worked with Clojure professionally for some time, and I never want to touch Clojure again :D We were just doing this small HTTP microservice based project, but still the starting times even for the very simplest web service were around 45-90 seconds each
2024-06-06 20:25:31 +0000 <haskellbridge> <oak> Then you could try to hack around it by using different hot reload solutions, but it felt like too much hackery
2024-06-06 20:25:33 +0000 <haskellbridge> <oak> Then later I was doing another HTTP microservice project, basically it connected to one API, pulled JSON from there, and then pushed XML back to the requester. That I did with Haskell and Servant and RIO, it was very nice, even very complex refactorings that took many hours, instantly worked when I got the code to the state it compiles
2024-06-06 20:25:37 +0000 <haskellbridge> <oak> Some people complaint that Haskell is slow to compile, but still the incremental builds and starting HTTP server again every time was around 3-5 secs every time. Not 45-90 seconds :D
2024-06-06 20:25:40 +0000phma(phma@2001:5b0:2172:c168:223e:807a:618e:7153)
2024-06-06 20:25:40 +0000 <haskellbridge> <oak> Maybe Clojure could be nicer nowadays when it has other options than to use JVM as a backend
2024-06-06 20:25:40 +0000 <haskellbridge> <oak> I think the reason why Clojure has gained so much popularity is political. It is easy to sell to companies as "another JVM language"
2024-06-06 20:25:41 +0000 <haskellbridge> <zwro> i chose scheme when i wanted to learn a lisp but always had curiosity for typed racket
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