IRCBrowse

2024/05/18

2024-05-18 00:11:08 +0200AlexNoo_(~AlexNoo@5.139.232.131)
2024-05-18 00:13:08 +0200kadir(~kadir@88.251.51.100) (Quit: WeeChat 4.2.2)
2024-05-18 00:14:28 +0200AlexZenon(~alzenon@178.34.162.221) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2024-05-18 00:14:49 +0200AlexNoo(~AlexNoo@178.34.162.221) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2024-05-18 00:15:19 +0200zetef(~quassel@2a02:2f00:5202:1200:3fa2:e908:b522:fa2f)
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2024-05-18 00:22:47 +0200AlexZenon(~alzenon@5.139.232.131)
2024-05-18 00:26:10 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
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2024-05-18 00:46:03 +0200talismanick(~user@2601:644:937c:ed10::ae5)
2024-05-18 00:47:23 +0200m257(~maaz@bras-base-hspron0502w-grc-15-174-92-92-146.dsl.bell.ca)
2024-05-18 00:48:29 +0200 <talismanick> typeclass laws let us make intuitive assumptions about the behavior of any instance satisfying them, but you do have to prove it
2024-05-18 00:48:31 +0200 <talismanick> but, in math, figuring out how to prove something is a big part of understanding it
2024-05-18 00:49:03 +0200 <talismanick> just writing out the proofs for Reader, Writer, and State, I don't feel like I understand anything more for doing so
2024-05-18 00:58:08 +0200yin(~yin@user/zero) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-05-18 01:01:01 +0200 <monochrom> I would not take "prove implies understanding" religiously. When it works, it works. When it doesn't, it doesn't, or at most maybe look for another proof approach that brings understanding.
2024-05-18 01:02:36 +0200 <monochrom> Hell, in fact, we know in math of a lot of elementary proofs that only achieve being elementary, not furthering understanding, precisely because they avoid "advanced" structures that bring understanding.
2024-05-18 01:07:07 +0200 <talismanick> what are some instances with nontrivial proofs?
2024-05-18 01:08:04 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com)
2024-05-18 01:09:52 +0200ski. o O ( "Mathematics, morally" by Eugenia Cheng in 2004-01 at <https://eugeniacheng.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/cheng-morality.pdf> )
2024-05-18 01:15:58 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e714dc64113083a2457f0359.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-05-18 01:17:08 +0200zetef(~quassel@2a02:2f00:5202:1200:3fa2:e908:b522:fa2f) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-05-18 01:17:58 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2024-05-18 01:18:54 +0200 <dolio> I've been reading a book with some people, and it seems like most of the proofs are less believable than the facts they state.
2024-05-18 01:21:31 +0200Lycurgus(~georg@user/Lycurgus)
2024-05-18 01:21:47 +0200 <Lycurgus> 'understanding' - that's a feel innit?
2024-05-18 01:22:41 +0200 <Lycurgus> a feel of cognition
2024-05-18 01:24:24 +0200ezzieyguywuf(~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-05-18 01:24:37 +0200ezzieyguywuf(~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf)
2024-05-18 01:25:08 +0200 <Lycurgus> feel, qualia, obscure thing
2024-05-18 01:26:05 +0200 <Lycurgus> without qualification that is; demonstrated understanding brings you back
2024-05-18 01:27:00 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2024-05-18 01:40:05 +0200 <Hecate> tomsmeding: eyo, do you want a PR to enable linear-base for GHC 9.10 on the playground?
2024-05-18 01:40:31 +0200Lycurgus(~georg@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: leaving)
2024-05-18 01:42:17 +0200 <ski> presumably understanding is objective insofar as it allows someone to better predict, diagnose, design
2024-05-18 01:54:55 +0200internatetional(~nate@2001:448a:20a3:c2e5:9ba2:a48e:b934:7d97) (Quit: WeeChat 4.2.2)
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2024-05-18 04:22:22 +0200Athas(athas@sigkill.dk) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2024-05-18 04:22:34 +0200Athas(athas@2a01:7c8:aaac:1cf:3ae1:f43a:30e:d1d8)
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2024-05-18 04:28:40 +0200bwe(~bwe@2a01:4f8:1c1c:4878::2)
2024-05-18 04:40:52 +0200 <talismanick> if types are propositions and programs are proofs, then mechanically the Monad instance for State is certainly an excersive in understanding through proof - it's basically dataflow through let-binding, as I see it
2024-05-18 04:41:03 +0200 <talismanick> exercise*
2024-05-18 04:44:03 +0200Axman6(~Axman6@user/axman6) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024-05-18 04:49:33 +0200 <talismanick> I guess it's natural for typeclass law proofs to be impervious to intuition because metaproofs are apt to be like that?
2024-05-18 04:50:35 +0200cheater_(~Username@user/cheater)
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2024-05-18 05:00:54 +0200cheater_cheater
2024-05-18 05:03:59 +0200 <dolio> No, propositions are types.
2024-05-18 05:04:01 +0200sand-witch_sand-witch
2024-05-18 05:04:13 +0200 <dolio> It's better if you don't read it the opposite way.
2024-05-18 05:04:45 +0200df(~ben@justworks.xyz)
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2024-05-18 05:52:09 +0200yandere__(sid467876@id-467876.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2024-05-18 05:53:00 +0200mal1(~mal@ns2.wyrd.be)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200acarrico(~acarrico@dhcp-68-142-49-163.greenmountainaccess.net) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200foul_owl(~kerry@71.212.149.206) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200df(~ben@justworks.xyz) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200hueso(~root@user/hueso) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200causal(~eric@50.35.88.207) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200xdminsy(~xdminsy@117.147.70.240) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200echoreply(~echoreply@45.32.163.16) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200cyphase(~cyphase@user/cyphase) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200hippoid(~hippoid@c-98-213-162-40.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200[Leary](~Leary]@user/Leary/x-0910699) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200op_4(~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200dostoyevsky2(~sck@user/dostoyevsky2) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200YuutaW(~YuutaW@2404:f4c0:f9c3:502::100:17b7) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200esph(~weechat@user/esph) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200nurupo(~nurupo.ga@user/nurupo) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200TMA(tma@twin.jikos.cz) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200lambdabot(~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200ncf(~n@monade.li) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200vgtw(~vgtw@user/vgtw) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200YoungFrog(~youngfrog@39.129-180-91.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200pieguy128(~pieguy128@bras-base-mtrlpq5031w-grc-47-67-70-101-170.dsl.bell.ca) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200dibblego(~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200tnks(sid412124@id-412124.helmsley.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200bradparker(sid262931@id-262931.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200jmct(sid160793@id-160793.tinside.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200b20n(sid115913@id-115913.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200kaol(~kaol@94-237-42-30.nl-ams1.upcloud.host) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200lieven(~mal@ns2.wyrd.be) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200Hobbyboy(Hobbyboy@hobbyboy.co.uk) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200davean(~davean@davean.sciesnet.net) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200tamer(~tamer@user/tamer) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200bastelfreak(bastelfrea@libera/staff/VoxPupuli.bastelfreak) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200mrmonday(~robert@what.i.hope.is.not.a.tabernaevagant.es) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:02 +0200evertedsphere(sid434122@id-434122.hampstead.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:18 +0200nurupo_(~nurupo.ga@user/nurupo)
2024-05-18 05:53:33 +0200xdminsy(~xdminsy@117.147.70.240)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200APic(apic@apic.name) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200Noinia(~Frank@77-162-168-71.fixed.kpn.net) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200chaitlatte0(ea29c0bb16@user/chaitlatte0) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200probie(cc0b34050a@user/probie) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200caubert(~caubert@user/caubert) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200henrytill(e0180937c3@2a03:6000:1812:100::e8c) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200kuruczgy(55b66dd3ae@2a03:6000:1812:100::127f) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200jmcantrell(644f1bed9a@user/jmcantrell) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200Ankhers(e99e97ef8e@2a03:6000:1812:100::2a2) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200rselim(ce261f06ff@user/milesrout) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200arcadewise(52968ed80d@2a03:6000:1812:100::3df) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200ursa-major(114efe6c39@2a03:6000:1812:100::11f3) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200whereiseveryone(206ba86c98@2a03:6000:1812:100::2e4) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200scav(sid309693@user/scav) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200mht-wtf(~mht@mht.wtf) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200Goodbye_Vincent(cyvahl@freakshells.net) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200coldtom(~coldtom@coldrick.cc) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200gaze__(sid387101@id-387101.helmsley.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200alanz(sid110616@id-110616.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200yandere_(sid467876@id-467876.ilkley.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200h2t_(~h2t@user/h2t) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200amir(sid22336@user/amir) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200integral(sid296274@user/integral) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200haritz(~hrtz@user/haritz) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200aspen(sid449115@id-449115.helmsley.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200Boarders____(sid425905@id-425905.lymington.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200systemfault(sid267009@about/typescript/member/systemfault) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200chessai(sid225296@id-225296.lymington.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200xigua(~xigua@user/xigua) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200jleightcap(7bc4014b62@user/jleightcap) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200brettgilio(a35ba67324@2a03:6000:1812:100::260) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200fn_lumi(3d621153a5@2a03:6000:1812:100::df7) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200shreyasminocha(51fdc93eda@user/shreyasminocha) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200aniketd(32aa4844cd@2a03:6000:1812:100::dcb) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200eso(a0662dfd5e@2a03:6000:1812:100::1266) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200fgaz_(1ff9197ed6@2a03:6000:1812:100::11ea) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200filwisher(2e6936c793@2a03:6000:1812:100::170) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200bsima1(9d7e39c8ad@2a03:6000:1812:100::dd) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200remexre(~remexre@user/remexre) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200beaky(~beaky@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::1e:a001) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200Riviera(Riviera@user/riviera) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200poscat(~poscat@user/poscat) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200Pixi`(~Pixi@user/pixi) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200tv(~tv@user/tv) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200hiredman(~hiredman@frontier1.downey.family) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200wz1000(~zubin@static.11.113.47.78.clients.your-server.de) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200Taneb(~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200y-koj(~yk@2404:7a81:c840:5e00:e654:e8ff:fee1:ca92) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200Vq(~vq@81-231-76-8-no600.tbcn.telia.com) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200sgarcia_(sgarcia@swarm.znchost.com) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200markasoftware(~quassel@107.161.26.124) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:38 +0200Buggys(Buggys@shelltalk.net) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:39 +0200Ekho(~Ekho@user/ekho) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:39 +0200ell(~ellie@user/ellie) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:39 +0200Aleksejs(~Aleksejs@107.170.21.106) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:39 +0200bcksl(~bcksl@user/bcksl) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:39 +0200Natch(~natch@c-9e07225c.038-60-73746f7.bbcust.telenor.se) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:39 +0200quintasan(~quassel@quintasan.pl) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:39 +0200noctux(~noctux@user/noctux) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:39 +0200jjhoo(~jahakala@user/jjhoo) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:39 +0200pounce(~pounce@user/cute/pounce) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:39 +0200mustafa(sid502723@rockylinux/releng/mustafa) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:39 +0200shachaf(~shachaf@user/shachaf) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:39 +0200spider(spider@tilde.cafe) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:39 +0200albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:39 +0200pikajude(~jude@149.28.207.64) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:39 +0200dragestil(~znc@user/dragestil) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:39 +0200tstat_(~tstat@user/tstat) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:39 +0200dfordvm(~dfordivam@160.16.87.223.v6.sakura.ne.jp) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:39 +0200piele(~piele@tbonesteak.creativeserver.net) (*.net *.split)
2024-05-18 05:53:40 +0200Ankhers_Ankhers
2024-05-18 05:53:40 +0200kuruczgy_kuruczgy
2024-05-18 05:53:40 +0200alanz_alanz
2024-05-18 05:53:40 +0200systemfault_systemfault
2024-05-18 05:53:40 +0200ell6ell
2024-05-18 05:53:40 +0200pounce_pounce
2024-05-18 05:53:43 +0200yandere__yandere_
2024-05-18 05:53:43 +0200aniketd_aniketd
2024-05-18 05:53:44 +0200henrytill_henrytill
2024-05-18 05:53:44 +0200mustafa_mustafa
2024-05-18 05:53:44 +0200rselim_rselim
2024-05-18 05:53:45 +0200Goodbye_Vincent1Goodbye_Vincent
2024-05-18 05:53:45 +0200scav_scav
2024-05-18 05:53:45 +0200gaze___gaze__
2024-05-18 05:53:45 +0200amir_amir
2024-05-18 05:53:45 +0200remexre_remexre
2024-05-18 05:53:45 +0200bsima1_bsima1
2024-05-18 05:53:45 +0200probie_probie
2024-05-18 05:53:45 +0200arcadewise_arcadewise
2024-05-18 05:53:45 +0200xigua_xigua
2024-05-18 05:53:45 +0200eso_eso
2024-05-18 05:53:46 +0200chaitlatte0_chaitlatte0
2024-05-18 05:53:46 +0200jmcantrell_jmcantrell
2024-05-18 05:53:46 +0200coldtom4coldtom
2024-05-18 05:53:46 +0200integral_integral
2024-05-18 05:53:46 +0200chessai_chessai
2024-05-18 05:53:46 +0200aspen_aspen
2024-05-18 05:53:47 +0200fgaz__fgaz_
2024-05-18 05:53:47 +0200shreyasminocha_shreyasminocha
2024-05-18 05:53:47 +0200fn_lumi_fn_lumi
2024-05-18 05:53:47 +0200brettgilio_brettgilio
2024-05-18 05:53:47 +0200jleightcap_jleightcap
2024-05-18 05:53:48 +0200ursa-major_ursa-major
2024-05-18 05:53:48 +0200whereiseveryone_whereiseveryone
2024-05-18 05:53:59 +0200yandere_tapas
2024-05-18 05:54:00 +0200Hobbyboy|BNCHobbyboy
2024-05-18 05:54:05 +0200tv(~tv@user/tv)
2024-05-18 05:54:12 +0200tstat(~tstat@user/tstat)
2024-05-18 05:54:14 +0200noctux(~noctux@user/noctux)
2024-05-18 05:54:15 +0200Aleksejs(~Aleksejs@107.170.21.106)
2024-05-18 05:54:48 +0200AlexNoo_(~AlexNoo@5.139.232.131) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-05-18 05:55:15 +0200UNREAALuo-ed(~UNREAALao@163.180.213.155)
2024-05-18 05:55:21 +0200AlexNoo_(~AlexNoo@5.139.232.131)
2024-05-18 05:55:32 +0200UNREAALuo-ed(~UNREAALao@163.180.213.155) ()
2024-05-18 05:55:37 +0200meinside(uid24933@id-24933.helmsley.irccloud.com)
2024-05-18 05:55:41 +0200lambdabot(~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu)
2024-05-18 05:55:41 +0200lambdabot(~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu) (Changing host)
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2024-05-18 05:55:59 +0200acarrico(~acarrico@dhcp-68-142-49-163.greenmountainaccess.net)
2024-05-18 05:55:59 +0200df(~ben@justworks.xyz)
2024-05-18 05:55:59 +0200causal(~eric@50.35.88.207)
2024-05-18 05:55:59 +0200echoreply(~echoreply@45.32.163.16)
2024-05-18 05:55:59 +0200hippoid(~hippoid@c-98-213-162-40.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
2024-05-18 05:55:59 +0200[Leary](~Leary]@user/Leary/x-0910699)
2024-05-18 05:55:59 +0200op_4(~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473)
2024-05-18 05:55:59 +0200dostoyevsky2(~sck@user/dostoyevsky2)
2024-05-18 05:55:59 +0200YuutaW(~YuutaW@2404:f4c0:f9c3:502::100:17b7)
2024-05-18 05:55:59 +0200vgtw(~vgtw@user/vgtw)
2024-05-18 05:55:59 +0200YoungFrog(~youngfrog@39.129-180-91.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
2024-05-18 05:55:59 +0200pieguy128(~pieguy128@bras-base-mtrlpq5031w-grc-47-67-70-101-170.dsl.bell.ca)
2024-05-18 05:55:59 +0200b20n(sid115913@id-115913.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2024-05-18 05:55:59 +0200kaol(~kaol@94-237-42-30.nl-ams1.upcloud.host)
2024-05-18 05:55:59 +0200tamer(~tamer@user/tamer)
2024-05-18 05:55:59 +0200bastelfreak(bastelfrea@libera/staff/VoxPupuli.bastelfreak)
2024-05-18 05:55:59 +0200mrmonday(~robert@what.i.hope.is.not.a.tabernaevagant.es)
2024-05-18 05:55:59 +0200evertedsphere(sid434122@id-434122.hampstead.irccloud.com)
2024-05-18 05:56:11 +0200Pegazusuo`_(~Syzzopiu_@fixed-187-189-91-62.totalplay.net)
2024-05-18 05:56:12 +0200bradparker(sid262931@id-262931.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2024-05-18 05:56:18 +0200 <Pegazusuo`_> shachaf_ rselim probie jjhoo_ brettgilio beaky_ darrik pikajude- whereiseveryone poscat0x04 aniketd ursa-major ncf_ bsima1 fn_lumi hiredman_ eso arcadewise chaitlatte0 alanz Taneb0 constxqt fgaz_ pounce Vq_ remexre jmcantrell Ankhers jleightcap kuruczgy piele_ scav amir chessai aspen gaze__ filwisher_ coldtom ell systemfault integral sgarcia shreyasminocha fluffyballoon Goodbye_Vincent d
2024-05-18 05:56:19 +0200 <Pegazusuo`_> avetapley dy lukec bw______ cpli Pixi__ euleritian peterbecich sand-witch teqwve- flounders_ CodeKiwi zlqrvx_ deriamis_ Eoco todi1 tolt_ weechat defanor_ kmein_ tessier ocra8_ johnw_ gawen_ swistak- lbseale_ fiddlerw- hexeme_ ridcully_ cheater bwe kimiamania ringo___ Athas cjb tcard td_ fliife Ranhir otto_s bitdex talismanick AlexZenon califax visilii_ pavonia emmanuelux euphores raym JimL n
2024-05-18 05:56:20 +0200 <Pegazusuo`_> ullie mei tzh _xor billchenchina sp1ff EvanR Sgeo FinnElija patrl zer0bitz igemnace qqq xff0x ft rvalue Lord_of_Life L29Ah ChaiTRex driib3 mikko xal tinjamin doyougnu oo_miguel philopsos bollu B-J immae sudden bsima remmie landonf Dykam pierrot evanrelf cln_ JoelMcCracken mhatta samhh_ TheCoffeMaker joeyh akspecs riatre mauke _0xa fr33domlover lambdap2371 xstill_ Pozyomka xsarnik carter_
2024-05-18 05:56:21 +0200 <Pegazusuo`_> PotatoGim_ dmj` Pent nek0 Fangs edwardk darkling hugo sprout puke dagi85299 jinsun MironZ xnyhps jcarpenter2 tomboy64 jrm destituion Maxdamantus koz famubu chexum pie_ ec m1dnight terrorjack aku SteelBlueSilk erisco phma Luj bliminse demon-cat p3n CrunchyFlakes JamesMowery hgolden laker monochrom michalz biberu pointlessslippe1 Moyst cayley5 ent infinity0 dtman34 img lockna rdcdr son0p Rodney_
2024-05-18 05:56:22 +0200 <Pegazusuo`_> iteratee paddymahoney gentauro urdh drdo m5zs7k stefan-__ ames Raito_Bezarius [exa] Ram-Z mrmr1553343 tt1231097 _d0t mima benjaminl GoldsteinQ jle` arahael dolio szkl Hafydd inedia pja pandeyan motherfsck mulk sam113101 vulpine eugenrh forell chiselfuse mjrosenb andrea_r Me-me bionade24 zmt01 adium glguy nschoe tabemann ircbrowse_tom tomsmeding amjoseph nitrix bgamari orcus dispater mxs Angelz
2024-05-18 05:56:23 +0200 <Pegazusuo`_> tomku masterbuilder fryguybob myxos sympt Rembane itaipu whatsupdoc endojelly rembo10 Teacup_ xelxebar_ kaskal- kritzefitz welterde leah2 migas97 Batzy malte arkeet paotsaq Xe juri_ thaumavorio byte ski Yumemi krei-se ACuriousMoose finsternis canta cjay kosmikus A_Dragon picnoir stefan-_ gabriel_sevecek kronicmage robobub opqdonut auri rncwnd emergence jocke-l hook54321 robertm tired statusbot
2024-05-18 05:56:24 +0200 <Pegazusuo`_> wryish siers koala_man adamCS incertia lockywolf end meejah ario sweater aws seeg123456 leeb nshepperd2 carbolymer bryanv Typedfern enikar mzg haveo_ mqlnv down200 zfnmxt flukiluke She berberman danso hughjfchen Patternmaster _________ catties FragByte dunj3 tertek anon8697 hc sukbeom V peutri lyxia Arsen bairyn Fijxu tdammers int-e it_ s4msung sshine Philonous CATS RMSBach gabiruh Vajb delyan_
2024-05-18 05:56:25 +0200 <Pegazusuo`_> Flow Franciman cross yaroot samhh jkoshy jakzale fvr sus sm2n ymherklotz duncan b0o pmk raghavgururajan ggb lane wagle sajith nonzen hamishmack flocks andjjj23 mniip_ barrucadu abrar MelMalik conjunctive sefidel myme earthy diagprov snek tritlo_ hololeap yahb2 hovsater Sciencentistguy sm sa jackdk T_S_____ Kamuela byorgey red-snail nisstyre turlando jakesyl_____ buhman Tisoxin liskin mrvdb pdw
2024-05-18 05:56:26 +0200 <Pegazusuo`_> Fischmiep TimWolla heartbur1 ian_ Clint andreas808 smalltalkman geekosaur edmundnoble_ edwtjo tinwood SethTisue PHO`_ lally alinab mjacob lisq nadja hadronized tureba mcfrdy nshepperd lexi-lambda SanchayanMaity idnar bjs degraafk CalimeroTeknik Putonlalla dumptruckman [_________] polux dfg edm NemesisD sa1 rune_ taktoa[c] jonrh c_wraith tomjaguarpaw nckx xerox farn_ exarkun eL_Bart0- energizer
2024-05-18 05:56:27 +0200 <Pegazusuo`_> gmc astra shawwwn mankyKitty caasih bah ouroboros disconnect3d acro davl litharge NiKaN apache Techcable sclv iphy ProofTechnique_ rubin55 natto aristid JSharp drlkf SoF hexology shane Hecate Jon loonycyborg noteness- laman1 xnbya2 SrPx acidsys rachelambda krasjet institor mira mmaruseacph2 yushyin cbarrett S11001001 dsal xacktm stilgart nrr_______ meooow chymera haasn Logio totbwf ChanServ
2024-05-18 05:56:28 +0200Pegazusuo`_(~Syzzopiu_@fixed-187-189-91-62.totalplay.net) ()
2024-05-18 05:56:42 +0200zmt01(~zmt00@user/zmt00) (Quit: Leaving)
2024-05-18 05:56:47 +0200dibblego(~dibblego@116.255.1.119)
2024-05-18 05:56:47 +0200dibblego(~dibblego@116.255.1.119) (Changing host)
2024-05-18 05:56:47 +0200dibblego(~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego)
2024-05-18 05:56:57 +0200cyphase(~cyphase@user/cyphase)
2024-05-18 05:57:15 +0200nurupo_nurupo
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2024-05-18 05:57:21 +0200df(~ben@justworks.xyz) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2024-05-18 05:58:49 +0200ChanServ+o glguy
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2024-05-18 05:59:01 +0200dfordvm(~dfordivam@160.16.87.223.v6.sakura.ne.jp)
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2024-05-18 06:08:04 +0200pieguy128(~pieguy128@bras-base-mtrlpq5031w-grc-47-67-70-101-170.dsl.bell.ca) (Max SendQ exceeded)
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2024-05-18 06:12:36 +0200hea_ed(~LRHio`y@80.69.63.28) (K-Lined)
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2024-05-18 06:36:47 +0200wz1000(~zubin@static.11.113.47.78.clients.your-server.de)
2024-05-18 06:51:40 +0200Eoco(~ian@128.101.131.218) (Quit: WeeChat 4.1.1)
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2024-05-18 07:47:19 +0200Vq_Vq
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2024-05-18 07:54:09 +0200philopsos(~caecilius@user/philopsos) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2024-05-18 07:58:11 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com)
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2024-05-18 08:08:18 +0200kadir(~kadir@88.251.51.100)
2024-05-18 08:18:33 +0200connrs(~connrs@user/connrs) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-05-18 08:22:12 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e714dc996547f0aaefed2014.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2024-05-18 08:25:46 +0200rvalue(~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2024-05-18 08:30:34 +0200TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Excess Flood)
2024-05-18 08:32:13 +0200TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker)
2024-05-18 08:34:52 +0200AlexZenon(~alzenon@5.139.232.131) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2024-05-18 08:45:20 +0200gabriel_sevecek(~gabriel@188-167-229-200.dynamic.chello.sk) (Quit: WeeChat 4.2.2)
2024-05-18 08:47:20 +0200gabriel_sevecek(~gabriel@188-167-229-200.dynamic.chello.sk)
2024-05-18 08:49:32 +0200AlexNoo_AlexNoo
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2024-05-18 09:08:40 +0200billchenchina(~billchenc@103.152.35.21) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2024-05-18 09:10:59 +0200sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937)
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2024-05-18 09:18:32 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2024-05-18 09:27:36 +0200Nixkernal(~Nixkernal@240.17.194.178.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch)
2024-05-18 09:28:59 +0200ezzieyguywuf(~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf)
2024-05-18 09:33:22 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2024-05-18 09:37:11 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-05-18 09:38:16 +0200superbil(~superbil@1-34-176-171.hinet-ip.hinet.net)
2024-05-18 09:46:01 +0200superbil(~superbil@1-34-176-171.hinet-ip.hinet.net) (Quit: WeeChat 4.2.2)
2024-05-18 09:48:45 +0200libertyprime(~libertypr@118-92-68-68.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz)
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2024-05-18 10:08:13 +0200shachaf_shachaf
2024-05-18 10:08:36 +0200shachaf(~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com) (Changing host)
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2024-05-18 10:11:17 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
2024-05-18 10:13:12 +0200libertyprime(~libertypr@118-92-68-68.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) (Quit: leaving)
2024-05-18 10:16:38 +0200superbil(~superbil@1-34-176-171.hinet-ip.hinet.net)
2024-05-18 10:18:39 +0200mesaoptimizer(~mesaoptim@user/PapuaHardyNet)
2024-05-18 10:26:04 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot)
2024-05-18 10:27:11 +0200TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Excess Flood)
2024-05-18 10:29:35 +0200TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker)
2024-05-18 10:33:05 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-05-18 10:36:02 +0200TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Excess Flood)
2024-05-18 10:38:21 +0200TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker)
2024-05-18 10:43:43 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot)
2024-05-18 10:54:17 +0200danza(~francesco@151.47.77.65)
2024-05-18 10:54:25 +0200danse-nr3(~danse-nr3@151.47.77.65)
2024-05-18 10:54:48 +0200danse-nr3(~danse-nr3@151.47.77.65) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2024-05-18 11:08:22 +0200siw5ohs0(~aiw5ohs0@user/aiw5ohs0)
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2024-05-18 11:21:54 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2024-05-18 11:50:18 +0200sukbeom(~sukbeom@121.172.255.83) (The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2024-05-18 12:01:11 +0200danza(~francesco@151.47.77.65) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024-05-18 12:01:18 +0200ChanServ+o ski
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2024-05-18 12:04:05 +0200ezzieyguywuf(~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2024-05-18 13:02:35 +0200Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
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2024-05-18 13:30:54 +0200Athas(athas@2a01:7c8:aaac:1cf:3ae1:f43a:30e:d1d8) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2024-05-18 13:32:28 +0200Athas(athas@2a01:7c8:aaac:1cf:3ae1:f43a:30e:d1d8)
2024-05-18 13:43:00 +0200Rodney_(~Rodney@176.254.244.83)
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2024-05-18 14:38:05 +0200waleee(~waleee@h-176-10-144-38.NA.cust.bahnhof.se)
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2024-05-18 14:43:12 +0200driib3(~driib@vmi931078.contaboserver.net) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2024-05-18 14:45:16 +0200driib3(~driib@vmi931078.contaboserver.net)
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2024-05-18 14:47:56 +0200ft(~ft@p508db8fc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving)
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2024-05-18 15:11:33 +0200danza(~francesco@rm-19-59-215.service.infuturo.it)
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2024-05-18 15:21:34 +0200target_i(~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099)
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2024-05-18 15:49:23 +0200joeyadams(~joeyadams@2603:6010:5100:2ed:b273:9497:4ffe:5456)
2024-05-18 15:51:35 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-188-140.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024-05-18 15:51:41 +0200waleee(~waleee@h-176-10-144-38.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2024-05-18 15:52:18 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-188-140.176.6.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-05-18 15:59:54 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-188-140.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-05-18 16:00:11 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@p200300d40f4af8000124b0e3dde43af2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2024-05-18 16:01:07 +0200sefidel(~sefidel@user/sefidel) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2024-05-18 16:09:02 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
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2024-05-18 16:21:15 +0200xdminsy(~xdminsy@117.147.70.240) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2024-05-18 16:21:41 +0200xdminsy(~xdminsy@117.147.70.240)
2024-05-18 16:21:47 +0200Athas(athas@2a01:7c8:aaac:1cf:3ae1:f43a:30e:d1d8) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2024-05-18 16:21:57 +0200Athas(athas@sigkill.dk)
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2024-05-18 19:50:11 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
2024-05-18 19:50:58 +0200 <justsomeguy> How do I use the Data.Array.IArray.ixmap function? I don't see any examples in the documentation.
2024-05-18 19:52:19 +0200 <justsomeguy> I have an array a = array (0,2) [(0,'a'),(1,'b'),(2,'c')] :: Array Int Char and am trying to map (+1) to each index in the array.
2024-05-18 19:52:37 +0200 <glguy> ixmap (0,2) (+1) a
2024-05-18 19:52:50 +0200 <glguy> oh, I guess you'd want:
2024-05-18 19:52:53 +0200aryah(~aryah@52-123.dsl.iskon.hr)
2024-05-18 19:52:55 +0200 <glguy> ixmap (1,3) (+1) a
2024-05-18 19:53:05 +0200 <glguy> that is tricky
2024-05-18 19:53:14 +0200 <ncf> nope
2024-05-18 19:53:17 +0200 <glguy> otherway
2024-05-18 19:53:18 +0200 <glguy> subtrace 1
2024-05-18 19:53:20 +0200 <glguy> subtract 1
2024-05-18 19:53:22 +0200 <ncf> ixmap (1, 3) (subtract 1) a
2024-05-18 19:53:52 +0200 <ncf> :t ixmap
2024-05-18 19:53:53 +0200 <lambdabot> (Ix i, Ix j) => (i, i) -> (i -> j) -> Array j e -> Array i e
2024-05-18 19:54:09 +0200 <ncf> "what bounds do you want", "how do you get back to the old indices"
2024-05-18 19:54:18 +0200 <mauke> justsomeguy: what do you mean by "map (+1) to each index"?
2024-05-18 19:54:20 +0200y04nn(~username@45.129.56.202)
2024-05-18 19:55:49 +0200 <ncf> surprised there isn't a lens combinator that takes an Iso
2024-05-18 19:55:56 +0200 <aryah> there's a contradiction in the 'extensions lifecycle' proposal (601). explaining experimental, it says "an Experimental extension must be Deprecated prior to removal", but then they recently expanded the section "transitions that are possible but left at the discretion of implementers..." with Experimental -> (does not exist)
2024-05-18 19:56:09 +0200 <ncf> apply it backwards to the bounds to determine the new bounds, then forwards to get the elements
2024-05-18 19:56:36 +0200 <justsomeguy> I was expecting to use ixmap (0,2) (+1) a to create a new Array like array (1,3) [(1,'a'),(2,'b'),(3,'c')]. But honestly I'm not sure what ixmap does and I'm just trying to go through each function in IArray and try them out on sample inputs.
2024-05-18 19:56:37 +0200 <ncf> well i guess your Iso would need to be well-behaved
2024-05-18 19:56:50 +0200 <aryah> soo, which is it? I guess the latter, but the text should surely be consistent before acceptence.
2024-05-18 19:57:00 +0200 <ncf> justsomeguy: read the type carefully
2024-05-18 19:57:02 +0200 <geekosaur> aryah, that might best be posted to the proposal issue?
2024-05-18 19:57:18 +0200 <mauke> justsomeguy: ah, then what ncf said
2024-05-18 19:57:39 +0200 <aryah> yeah, prob, I didn't want to need to dig up my github acc...
2024-05-18 19:58:05 +0200 <geekosaur> I use a password manager to keep track of such things 🙂
2024-05-18 19:58:34 +0200 <ncf> the function creates an array with the given bounds, then applies the function to each *new* index to get the element corresponding to that index from the old array
2024-05-18 19:59:01 +0200 <aryah> hahah, yeah, well it was a bad accident with my credentials overall tbh.
2024-05-18 19:59:12 +0200 <ncf> so if you want to apply some transformation f to the indices, you need to apply f to the bounds and give f⁻¹ as the mapping
2024-05-18 20:03:20 +0200 <justsomeguy> I'm 100% lost.
2024-05-18 20:04:08 +0200 <justsomeguy> So, the first argument is a range of indices supplied as a tulpe, right?
2024-05-18 20:04:24 +0200 <justsomeguy> And they you provide a unary function to manipulate each index.
2024-05-18 20:04:34 +0200 <justsomeguy> and the last argument is an Array.
2024-05-18 20:04:43 +0200 <justsomeguy> (an IArray, sorry)
2024-05-18 20:05:00 +0200 <justsomeguy> What is a bounds?
2024-05-18 20:05:12 +0200 <ncf> first and last index
2024-05-18 20:05:26 +0200 <ncf> (0, 2) in your `a`
2024-05-18 20:11:15 +0200 <justsomeguy> So when I run b = ixmap (1,1) (+1) a I get array (1,1) [(1,'c')]. Now I have a = array (0,2) [(0,'a'),(1,'b'),(2,'c')] and b = array (1,1) [(1,'c')].
2024-05-18 20:12:08 +0200 <ncf> as expected
2024-05-18 20:13:25 +0200 <monochrom> (1,1) means an array of length 1, the only index being 1.
2024-05-18 20:13:52 +0200 <justsomeguy> Oh man... I thought the first element of the tuple was the starting index, not the length.
2024-05-18 20:14:01 +0200 <EvanR> justsomeguy, the resulting array effectively uses a function on the incoming index to get the value
2024-05-18 20:14:02 +0200 <ncf> it is the starting index
2024-05-18 20:14:08 +0200 <ncf> and the second one is the last index
2024-05-18 20:14:12 +0200 <ncf> > [1..1]
2024-05-18 20:14:14 +0200 <lambdabot> [1]
2024-05-18 20:14:26 +0200 <monochrom> And I guess also b ! i = a ! (i+1) as you specified (+1).
2024-05-18 20:14:53 +0200 <monochrom> Eh, if anything, I would expect length to be second, not first. :)
2024-05-18 20:15:00 +0200 <EvanR> r[i] = a[f(i)]
2024-05-18 20:15:16 +0200 <ncf> (length wouldn't make sense for higher-dimensional arrays)
2024-05-18 20:17:27 +0200 <justsomeguy> So would I only use ixmap to get subranges of the input IArray? I don't see how else I could use it. I guess it depends on what type you chose as your index.
2024-05-18 20:18:34 +0200 <ncf> <ncf> ixmap (1, 3) (subtract 1) a
2024-05-18 20:18:38 +0200 <ncf> doesn't look like a subrange to me
2024-05-18 20:22:13 +0200 <monochrom> There is no dedicated subrange function, so yeah ixmap with id is one solution. But you can also try array (3,5) [ (i, a ! i) | i <- [3..5] ]
2024-05-18 20:25:50 +0200destituion(~destituio@2a02:2121:10b:62ca:10a5:f759:7fb5:9fb1) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2024-05-18 20:26:08 +0200 <mauke> ixmap can be used to give you a permutation of the input array
2024-05-18 20:29:29 +0200 <ski> > fmap getSum (ximap (0,9) (^ 2) (L.tabulate (-3,3) (\i -> Sum (i^2))))
2024-05-18 20:29:30 +0200 <lambdabot> array (0,9) [(0,0),(1,2),(2,0),(3,0),(4,8),(5,0),(6,0),(7,0),(8,0),(9,18)]
2024-05-18 20:30:04 +0200sawilagar(~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-05-18 20:31:19 +0200kaol_kaol
2024-05-18 20:31:39 +0200 <ncf> :t ximap
2024-05-18 20:31:40 +0200 <lambdabot> (Ix i, Ix j, Monoid e) => (j, j) -> (i -> j) -> Array i e -> Array j e
2024-05-18 20:32:16 +0200 <ncf> nice
2024-05-18 20:33:01 +0200 <ski> covariant rather than contravariant, over map with finite support
2024-05-18 20:33:56 +0200 <ncf> is this a Kan extension
2024-05-18 20:36:26 +0200 <ski> > ixmap (-3,3) (^ 2) (L.tabulate (0,9) (\j -> 2*j)) -- not just subrange or selection, but also replication
2024-05-18 20:36:28 +0200 <lambdabot> array (-3,3) [(-3,18),(-2,8),(-1,2),(0,0),(1,2),(2,8),(3,18)]
2024-05-18 20:36:47 +0200ski. o O ( <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoid_ring> )
2024-05-18 20:36:47 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-05-18 20:37:10 +0200 <justsomeguy> What do covariant and contravariant mean?
2024-05-18 20:37:42 +0200 <ski> ncf : not sure
2024-05-18 20:38:05 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-188-140.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2024-05-18 20:38:06 +0200 <ski> justsomeguy : covariant means "varies in the same direction", and contravariant means "varies in the opposite direction"
2024-05-18 20:38:12 +0200 <mauke> ...
2024-05-18 20:38:27 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot)
2024-05-18 20:39:07 +0200 <ncf> as with functors: covariant is fmap :: (a -> b) -> f a -> f b, contravariant is contramap :: (a -> b) -> f b -> f a
2024-05-18 20:39:24 +0200 <ski> justsomeguy : for `fmap :: (a -> b) -> (Array i a -> Array i b)', we provide a function from `a' elements to `b' elements, and gets back a function from `a' arrays to `b' arrays .. so both functions, the element function, and the array function, go in the same direction
2024-05-18 20:39:48 +0200 <ncf> in this case the functor under consideration is (`Array` e)
2024-05-18 20:40:09 +0200 <ski> justsomeguy : ditto for my `ximap', you provide `i -> j' and get back `Array i e -> Array j e', so both are going in the same direction, still
2024-05-18 20:40:54 +0200 <ski> justsomeguy : but for `ixmap', you provide `j -> i', getting back `Array i e -> Array j e', so here we're *reversing* direction ! hence, *contra*variant, in this case
2024-05-18 20:43:59 +0200 <ski> justsomeguy : some kind of thing comes up in Object-orientation, with subtyping. you can have a method (in a subclass) that possibly returns an object that's a subtype of the return type of the object in the superclass. so in superclass `C' you can have `T foo(Blah blah);', and in subclass `D', you can, if you want, instead have `U foo(Blah blah);' as long as `U' is a subtype of `T'. because every object of
2024-05-18 20:44:05 +0200 <ski> type `U' also has type `T'. this means that method return types are covariant
2024-05-18 20:45:20 +0200 <EvanR> OOP. foo Blah blah
2024-05-18 20:46:25 +0200 <ski> however, if we instead look at argument/parameter types, say we have `void bar(U obj);' in `C', then we could have `void bar(T obj);' in `D'. because a `D' is supposed to be a `C' (you can pass a `D' object to where a `C' object is expected), `bar' in `D' will always have to be prepared for people sending `U's to it, we can't replace `U' with a subtype of `U', in the subclass `D'. we *can* replace `U' with
2024-05-18 20:46:31 +0200 <ski> a *supertype* `T', though, allowing `bar' in `D' to accept *more* types of objects than the original `bar' in `C'
2024-05-18 20:46:58 +0200 <ski> so, this is contravariant
2024-05-18 20:47:35 +0200 <ski> s/some kind/same kind/
2024-05-18 20:49:51 +0200 <ski> btw, if you have mutable arrays, then `U[]' is neither a subtype nor a supertype of `T[]', when `U' is a subtype of `T'. this is because we can both read (output) from arrays (which is covariant), and write (input) to arrays (which is contravariant). so saying `Bike[]' is a subtype of `Vehicle[]' is wrong, if the array is mutable
2024-05-18 20:50:22 +0200 <ski> for methods (and functions in general), the inputs (arguments/parameters) are contravariant, and the output (result) is covariant
2024-05-18 20:51:06 +0200 <aryah> ski: ty, a very clear explanation, I wondered the same a few times
2024-05-18 20:51:37 +0200 <ski> there are various other words that are also used. covariant : order-preserving, increasing, monotone, upper. contravariant : order-reversing, decreasing, antitone, lower
2024-05-18 20:51:59 +0200 <ski> aryah : happy it made sense
2024-05-18 20:53:18 +0200 <ski> oh, also "positive (position)" for covariant, and "negative (position)" for contravariant
2024-05-18 20:53:36 +0200 <ski> (think about rules like "positive times positive is positive", "positive times negative is negative", ..)
2024-05-18 20:54:14 +0200 <mauke> ArrayStoreException
2024-05-18 20:54:34 +0200 <ski> in `a -> Maybe b', `b' is in positive (output/result/covariant) position, while `a' is in negative (input/argument/parameter/contravariant) position
2024-05-18 20:55:58 +0200 <ski> and in `(a -> Bool) -> Bool', `a' is again in positive position. if you have `test :: (T -> Bool) -> Bool', then this function `test' in some sense "contains" a number of `T' values (they're "output", although only indirectly, from the function `test'. you can only "prod" at them by providing predicate callbacks)
2024-05-18 20:56:05 +0200y04nn(~username@45.129.56.202) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2024-05-18 20:56:26 +0200 <ski> e.g. we could have `test p = p t0 && (p t1 || not (p t2))', for some `t0,t1,t2 :: T'
2024-05-18 20:56:36 +0200 <mauke> if you're familiar with C, T *ptr automatically converts to const T *, but T **ptr does not convert to const T **
2024-05-18 20:56:39 +0200 <mauke> this is because of reasons
2024-05-18 20:56:43 +0200 <monochrom> The beauty is that neg times neg is pos too. For example in ((X -> Int) -> Int), X is at a positive covariant position, because it's neg of neg.
2024-05-18 20:57:27 +0200 <ski> mauke : yea, Java messed this up
2024-05-18 21:05:43 +0200destituion(~destituio@2a02:2121:607:127a:483a:846b:b497:f738)
2024-05-18 21:05:55 +0200raehik(~raehik@rdng-25-b2-v4wan-169990-cust1344.vm39.cable.virginm.net)
2024-05-18 21:09:03 +0200y04nn(~username@2a03:1b20:8:f011::e10d)
2024-05-18 21:11:43 +0200 <ski> (oh, and this about contra- and co- variance of inputs/arguments and outputs/results also relates to preconditions and postconditions. if you strengthen the postcondition (make it more demanding), you strengthen the whole contract. but if you strengthen the precondition (make it more demanding), you *weaken* the whole contract, because now you're allowing fewer things to be passed to the operation, you're
2024-05-18 21:11:49 +0200 <ski> only considering fewer situations, so it's easier, not harder, to implement this overall weakened contract)
2024-05-18 21:12:03 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@p200300d40f4af8006c29977101d489e2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2024-05-18 21:14:34 +0200 <mauke> for example, it is very hard to prove "all naturals numbers are odd". but if you strengthen the precondition, like "all prime numbers are odd", it gets much easier to prove.
2024-05-18 21:15:44 +0200 <int-e> mauke: ahem
2024-05-18 21:15:49 +0200 <ncf> lol
2024-05-18 21:16:01 +0200 <EvanR> all prime numbers worth their salt
2024-05-18 21:16:15 +0200 <EvanR> all proper prime numbers
2024-05-18 21:16:35 +0200 <int-e> (I'd like to say that I have two reasons speaking against that but it's really just one.)
2024-05-18 21:16:51 +0200 <mauke> how odd
2024-05-18 21:17:06 +0200 <ncf> so i guess any map f : A → M into a monoid can be extended along g : A → B as b ↦ sum(f(g⁻¹(b))) : B → M
2024-05-18 21:17:23 +0200 <ncf> and ximap is just the restriction of that to maps with finite contiguous domains (arrays)
2024-05-18 21:17:27 +0200 <ncf> i wonder if this construction has a name
2024-05-18 21:17:30 +0200 <int-e> mauke: I guess you can try that defense. (That 2 is *the* odd prime.)
2024-05-18 21:17:44 +0200 <ncf> it's not actually an "extension" proper because the composition doesn't recover f
2024-05-18 21:17:53 +0200 <EvanR> there's 10 kinds of prime numbers
2024-05-18 21:18:01 +0200 <EvanR> even and odd
2024-05-18 21:18:32 +0200 <mauke> there's 10 kinds of people: binary and non-binary
2024-05-18 21:21:16 +0200 <raehik> I need a `decSNat :: SNat n -> SNat (n-1)` (ignore n=0 case) but I can't incur KnownNat constraints. How do I write this?
2024-05-18 21:21:26 +0200 <ski> i recall some mathematician saying that two is the oddest of the primes
2024-05-18 21:21:52 +0200 <Rembane> That's a good quote
2024-05-18 21:22:37 +0200 <ski> ncf : perhaps it would be nicer with commutative monoids .. but the indices had an order given by `Ix' in this case
2024-05-18 21:23:05 +0200 <ncf> that's true
2024-05-18 21:24:13 +0200L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah)
2024-05-18 21:24:27 +0200 <ski> (like there's results where all odd primes are treated the same way, but you have to treat two differently. commonly this is, on some level, because there's only one (unique !) congruence class modulo two which doesn't contain zero)
2024-05-18 21:24:30 +0200 <ncf> raehik: withKnownNat?
2024-05-18 21:25:18 +0200 <ski> @hoogle withKnownNat
2024-05-18 21:25:19 +0200 <lambdabot> Data.Singletons.TypeLits withKnownNat :: Sing n -> (KnownNat n => r) -> r
2024-05-18 21:26:36 +0200 <ncf> hmm, i guess it's not clear how to proceed from there
2024-05-18 21:26:36 +0200 <raehik> ncf: yeah I'm thinking withKnownNat and some unsafeCoerce ing...?
2024-05-18 21:28:55 +0200 <ncf> could not deduce KnownNat (n - 1) from KnownNat n
2024-05-18 21:29:00 +0200 <ncf> hmm... is this just GHC being bad
2024-05-18 21:29:25 +0200 <geekosaur> yes. try the natnormalise plugin, I think?
2024-05-18 21:29:59 +0200 <geekosaur> or its cousin that I can't recall ottomh
2024-05-18 21:32:52 +0200 <raehik> geekosaur: I know of ghc-typelits-knownnat
2024-05-18 21:33:07 +0200 <raehik> if possible I'd like to know how to do it manually too
2024-05-18 21:33:11 +0200 <geekosaur> that might be it
2024-05-18 21:33:24 +0200 <geekosaur> afaik it just adds constraints for obvious things like that
2024-05-18 21:34:08 +0200 <geekosaur> the decision was made at some point that, rather than teach the typechecker things like that, it should be done with plugins (iirc)
2024-05-18 21:34:14 +0200 <monochrom> Hot take: 3 is the oddest of odd primes.
2024-05-18 21:34:51 +0200 <ncf> 3 is actually the least odd prime
2024-05-18 21:34:58 +0200 <monochrom> hahaha
2024-05-18 21:36:48 +0200y04nn(~username@2a03:1b20:8:f011::e10d) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-05-18 21:37:12 +0200 <ncf> not to be confused with 2, the least-odd prime
2024-05-18 21:37:46 +0200 <Rembane> I think 0 is the roundest of the hot take primes
2024-05-18 21:39:05 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d173-183-246-216.abhsia.telus.net)
2024-05-18 22:00:15 +0200 <raehik> geekosaur: even with that package I need to provide a proof that n >= 1... bleh
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2024-05-18 22:24:06 +0200 <raehik> geekosaur: turns out I can copy how singletons-base implements singled Natural subtraction, reifying->performing regular subtraction->unsafeCoercing the result
2024-05-18 22:24:13 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-188-140.176.6.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-05-18 22:24:44 +0200 <monochrom> >:)
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2024-05-18 23:32:47 +0200edrx(~Eduardo@179-191-223-123.static.sumicity.net.br)
2024-05-18 23:33:53 +0200 <edrx> hi all! I am trying to translate my notes on this
2024-05-18 23:33:59 +0200 <edrx> do a <- [0,1]; b <- [a+1,a+2]; guard (a+b < 4); return (a,b)
2024-05-18 23:34:11 +0200 <edrx> to Lean...
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2024-05-18 23:35:05 +0200 <edrx> the translation of [0,1] is not immediate, but I guess that I can find if I find how [0,1] is expanded to f 0 1 for a certain f...
2024-05-18 23:35:05 +0200zetef(~quassel@2a02:2f00:5202:1200:3fa2:e908:b522:fa2f)
2024-05-18 23:35:21 +0200 <edrx> anyone knows the name of that f?
2024-05-18 23:35:31 +0200 <mauke> huh?
2024-05-18 23:35:43 +0200chiselfuse(~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse)
2024-05-18 23:36:31 +0200fizbin__(~fizbin@user/fizbin) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-05-18 23:36:44 +0200 <edrx> if I run seq 2 5 in a shell the output is 2 3 4 5
2024-05-18 23:37:04 +0200 <edrx> [2,5] in Haskell is syntax sugar for something else
2024-05-18 23:37:20 +0200 <mauke> yeah, technically it's 2 : (5 : [])
2024-05-18 23:37:39 +0200 <edrx> I'm trying to find that something else in the source
2024-05-18 23:37:43 +0200 <edrx> ooops, my fault!
2024-05-18 23:37:52 +0200 <EvanR> and do notation is expanded to >>= and >> and let
2024-05-18 23:38:16 +0200 <mauke> but [2,5] is just a two-element list
2024-05-18 23:38:18 +0200 <mauke> it's not a range
2024-05-18 23:38:21 +0200 <edrx> I forgot that [2,5] is a list with two elements and not something like 2,3,4,5
2024-05-18 23:38:26 +0200 <edrx> (embarrased)
2024-05-18 23:38:33 +0200fizbin__(~fizbin@user/fizbin)
2024-05-18 23:38:33 +0200 <EvanR> > [2..5]
2024-05-18 23:38:34 +0200 <lambdabot> [2,3,4,5]
2024-05-18 23:38:42 +0200 <edrx> that!!!!
2024-05-18 23:38:44 +0200 <mauke> > enumFromTo 2 5
2024-05-18 23:38:46 +0200 <lambdabot> [2,3,4,5]
2024-05-18 23:38:55 +0200 <edrx> perfect!!! thanks =)
2024-05-18 23:39:30 +0200 <mauke> @undo do a <- [0,1]; b <- [a+1,a+2]; guard (a+b < 4); return (a,b)
2024-05-18 23:39:30 +0200 <lambdabot> [0, 1] >>= \ a -> [a + 1, a + 2] >>= \ b -> guard (a + b < 4) >> return (a, b)
2024-05-18 23:39:39 +0200 <mauke> @. pl undo do a <- [0,1]; b <- [a+1,a+2]; guard (a+b < 4); return (a,b)
2024-05-18 23:39:40 +0200 <lambdabot> ap ((>>=) . liftM2 (:) (1 +) (return . (2 +))) (ap (ap . (((>>) . guard) .) . flip flip 4 . ((<) .) . (+)) ((return .) . (,))) =<< [0, 1]
2024-05-18 23:39:48 +0200 <mauke> there. now it's art.
2024-05-18 23:40:13 +0200 <EvanR> magnificent desolation
2024-05-18 23:40:33 +0200 <edrx> that's super neat! when I learned that I had to do the translation by hand...
2024-05-18 23:41:37 +0200 <edrx> is there an easy way to run that translation from a ghci repl?
2024-05-18 23:42:20 +0200 <mauke> I don't think so
2024-05-18 23:42:43 +0200 <ski> > (\a o -> [(a,b) | let b = a + o,a+b < 4]) <$> [0,1] <*>> [1,2]
2024-05-18 23:42:45 +0200 <lambdabot> [(0,1),(0,2),(1,2)]
2024-05-18 23:43:28 +0200zetef(~quassel@2a02:2f00:5202:1200:3fa2:e908:b522:fa2f) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2024-05-18 23:47:44 +0200 <ski> it's not to hard to run `undo' in your head
2024-05-18 23:48:14 +0200 <edrx> when we have practice it is trivial
2024-05-18 23:49:11 +0200 <geekosaur> you can run lambdabot locally, although installing it is a bit of a pain currently
2024-05-18 23:49:20 +0200 <ski> you can check the "Translations" part of <https://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/haskell2010/haskellch3.html#x8-470003.14> (and <https://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/haskell2010/haskellch3.html#x8-420003.11> for list comprehensions)
2024-05-18 23:49:27 +0200 <geekosaur> you can also talk to it in /query
2024-05-18 23:50:07 +0200 <edrx> let me try
2024-05-18 23:50:13 +0200 <edrx> ski: thanks =)
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2024-05-18 23:52:46 +0200 <EvanR> lambdabot is a living program, it must be preserved for future generations
2024-05-18 23:53:24 +0200michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.221)
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2024-05-18 23:53:39 +0200 <geekosaur> lambdabot itself is fine. one of its dependencies was never updated for Semigroup, iirc
2024-05-18 23:56:17 +0200 <edrx> geekosaur: done! I'll have to clean up my script to talk to lambdabot someday, but the ugly prototype works =)