2024/04/14

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2024-04-14 00:50:58 +0000 <haskellbridge> <m​aralorn> I found a solution which was muuuch simpler than dependent types or gadts.
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2024-04-14 03:21:21 +0000 <masaeedu> well, don't leave us hanging...
2024-04-14 03:24:07 +0000 <masaeedu> i have this problem frequently as well and would like to know of non-GADT solutions
2024-04-14 03:29:36 +0000 <halloy4906> something like preventing meaningless events? say, open the door, open the door - second is invalid
2024-04-14 03:29:46 +0000halloy4906reki
2024-04-14 03:36:17 +0000 <masaeedu> reki: yes, exactly
2024-04-14 03:36:31 +0000 <masaeedu> or at least assuming i understood the question correctly
2024-04-14 03:38:59 +0000 <reki> also, elm architecture is really popular
2024-04-14 03:40:56 +0000 <reki> though the problem seems complicated because ui can still be issuing the events when state has already been updated
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2024-04-14 04:40:48 +0000 <mauke> I have discovered a truly marvelous solution, which this IRC channel is too narrow to contain
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2024-04-14 04:50:06 +0000 <jcarpenter2> :eyes:
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2024-04-14 14:13:02 +0000euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2024-04-14 14:18:16 +0000 <Inst> erm, I'm playing with variadic functions in haskell
2024-04-14 14:22:17 +0000 <Inst> For variadic functions, is there any way I can get the default out of this?
2024-04-14 14:22:20 +0000 <Inst> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/ZgfO2cG5
2024-04-14 14:24:50 +0000 <ncf> what do you mean by get the default?
2024-04-14 14:25:56 +0000infinity0(~infinity0@pwned.gg) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-04-14 14:28:03 +0000infinity0(~infinity0@pwned.gg)
2024-04-14 14:28:50 +0000 <tomsmeding> Inst: try 'instance (Foo a, arg ~ Int) => Foo (arg -> a) where'
2024-04-14 14:29:09 +0000 <Inst> there's a default declaration here
2024-04-14 14:29:14 +0000 <Inst> and thanks for being helpful ncf :)
2024-04-14 14:29:35 +0000 <ncf> oh you mean get rid of it?
2024-04-14 14:29:38 +0000 <tomsmeding> instance matching is greedy and doesn't look at the context of the instance, so 'Foo (Int -> a)' will only be chosen if GHC can already otherwise determine that the argument has type Int
2024-04-14 14:30:07 +0000 <tomsmeding> if you generalise the thing to 'Foo (arg -> a)' then the instance will always match, and subsequently the instance context will enforce that the argument should actually be Int
2024-04-14 14:30:41 +0000 <Inst> ah, so it's not an issue with Haskell
2024-04-14 14:31:00 +0000 <tomsmeding> of course, this trick doesn't work if you want to have multiple choices for the type of the argument
2024-04-14 14:31:51 +0000 <Inst> IIRC, what was the reason that typeclass abuse became acknowledged as typeclass abuse in Haskell?
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2024-04-14 15:50:01 +0000 <Inst> sm
2024-04-14 15:50:17 +0000 <Inst> do you have a link to typeclassopaedia? I saw it a couple of years back, but I haven't been able to find the link to it anymore
2024-04-14 15:50:30 +0000n8n(n8n@user/n8n) (Quit: WeeChat 4.2.2)
2024-04-14 15:51:57 +0000 <geekosaur> https://wiki.haskell.org/Typeclassopedia first hit for "haskell typeclassopedia" for me…
2024-04-14 15:52:04 +0000target_i(~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099)
2024-04-14 15:56:35 +0000 <Inst> i remember there used to be a dedicated website for that
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2024-04-14 16:01:32 +0000 <haskellbridge> <s​m> https://haskell-links.org
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2024-04-14 16:44:07 +0000 <sm> speaking of which.. I'm confused why squarespace is contacting me to renew this.. did they buy up my registrar ? seems unlikely
2024-04-14 16:48:14 +0000 <sm> oh wow.. yes, they took over google domains
2024-04-14 16:48:42 +0000 <geekosaur> that was reported here a couple weeks ago, yes
2024-04-14 16:49:19 +0000 <geekosaur> better than google's usual behavior of just dropping the service entirely…
2024-04-14 16:56:57 +0000mei(~mei@user/mei) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2024-04-14 17:02:47 +0000 <EvanR> google domains R.I.P.
2024-04-14 17:03:31 +0000 <monochrom> Can't wait until they also kill their AI effort. >:)
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2024-04-14 17:37:49 +0000sminitiates transfer proceedings
2024-04-14 17:39:40 +0000 <tomsmeding> sm: where are you moving it to?
2024-04-14 17:40:46 +0000 <sm> Cloudflare. I have my other domains there, and it's non-spammy and powerful. Probably has lots of other issues.. (centralisation..)
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2024-04-14 18:24:23 +0000 <juri_> monochrom: i can't wait until i can do AI stuff in haskell. doing assembly by hand, currently.
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2024-04-14 18:33:04 +0000 <Inst> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/NAEXh8x7
2024-04-14 18:33:08 +0000 <Inst> this code still doesn't work :(
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2024-04-14 18:35:50 +0000causal(~eric@50.35.88.207)
2024-04-14 18:36:03 +0000 <Inst> IIRC there's Varargs support in universum
2024-04-14 18:38:52 +0000 <geekosaur> how is that supposed to work? you are assuming that the only possible instance for the inner `foo` is `Int`, but typeclasses are open-world
2024-04-14 18:39:25 +0000 <geekosaur> that is, nothing stops someone from defining an `instance Foo String` which would then not typecheck
2024-04-14 18:40:07 +0000 <tomsmeding> juri_: is the AI stuff and the assembly related?
2024-04-14 18:40:26 +0000 <Inst> ah
2024-04-14 18:41:02 +0000 <Inst> Just playing around with varargs, I mean, I can copy the pattern from printf, but that feels clunky
2024-04-14 18:42:27 +0000pavonia(~user@user/siracusa)
2024-04-14 18:42:50 +0000 <juri_> tomsmeding: very.
2024-04-14 18:43:22 +0000 <juri_> tomsmeding: https://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpp/pull/6440
2024-04-14 18:43:23 +0000tomsmedingis curious, also how haskell would improve things
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2024-04-14 18:45:05 +0000 <juri_> i don't have any good answers, sadly. I think I might be back to haskell when i start working in FPGAs..
2024-04-14 18:45:24 +0000 <tomsmeding> cool stuff!
2024-04-14 18:46:26 +0000nickiminjaj|2(~kvirc@apn-31-0-68-81.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl)
2024-04-14 18:46:53 +0000 <tomsmeding> writing that assembly inline in C string literals must be painful
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2024-04-14 18:48:20 +0000 <juri_> not as painful as managing pointer arithmatic in C and in inline assembly.
2024-04-14 18:48:40 +0000 <tomsmeding> heh
2024-04-14 18:48:46 +0000 <juri_> they're not actually different worlds, but they can feel like it.
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2024-04-14 18:52:33 +0000 <tomsmeding> I feel like if what you're interested in is low-level performance optimisations on particular hardware, haskell is not the tool to reach for
2024-04-14 18:52:50 +0000 <tomsmeding> haskell is good for composition and abstraction in a safe way
2024-04-14 18:52:59 +0000nickiminjaj|2(~kvirc@apn-31-0-68-81.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2024-04-14 18:53:08 +0000 <tomsmeding> (where python is good for glueing and duct-taping together)
2024-04-14 18:57:26 +0000 <EvanR> can't haskell be "good" at gluing and duct-taping together things
2024-04-14 18:58:06 +0000 <EvanR> in the sense of python
2024-04-14 19:01:52 +0000 <Inst> is there any way to get a TC variadic that produces a lambda behind it?
2024-04-14 19:02:41 +0000Achylles(~Achylles@45.182.57.98) (Quit: Leaving)
2024-04-14 19:03:17 +0000 <Inst> because, ummm, Oleg Kiselyov's paper seems to use accumulating parameter
2024-04-14 19:03:45 +0000 <EvanR> haskell's overlooked object system
2024-04-14 19:03:56 +0000 <EvanR> (probably for the best)
2024-04-14 19:05:02 +0000 <Inst> was referencing this: https://okmij.org/ftp/Haskell/polyvariadic.html#polyvar-fn
2024-04-14 19:05:44 +0000 <Inst> https://arxiv.org/pdf/cs/0509027.pdf
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2024-04-14 19:06:28 +0000 <Inst> thanks EvanR
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2024-04-14 19:28:25 +0000ChanServ+o litharge
2024-04-14 19:28:26 +0000litharge-bo *!*@149.19.169.195 litharge
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2024-04-14 19:48:27 +0000 <juri_> tomsmeding: you're probably right. in C / Assembly / ???, its sacrifice everything for performance. composing these high performance frameworks into a product is where i want haskell. i can hit a C compiler with a wrench when i need to, but hitting GHC is a little more complicated.
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2024-04-14 19:52:55 +0000 <tomsmeding> what would hitting GHC with a wrench entail :p
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2024-04-14 19:54:10 +0000 <geekosaur> that's `accursedUnutterablePerformIO` 😛
2024-04-14 19:54:41 +0000 <juri_> I don't know! and that's the frustrating part. I really wish GHC was using a C compiler under the hood. more steps in the pipeline makes bending the pipeline easier.
2024-04-14 19:54:59 +0000 <juri_> (ok, i'll stop ranting now. GRR, i hate C!)
2024-04-14 19:55:14 +0000 <tomsmeding> use GHC 7 or so, it had -fvia-C :p
2024-04-14 19:55:38 +0000 <juri_> Want. :)
2024-04-14 19:55:44 +0000 <geekosaur> although actually you don't because the C it produced was pretty grody
2024-04-14 19:56:14 +0000 <geekosaur> and then got postprocessed by a Perl script
2024-04-14 19:56:39 +0000 <juri_> sounds like exactly what i'm looking for. ;)
2024-04-14 19:57:13 +0000 <EvanR> does ghc have plugins for the intermediate stages of compilation, or just type checking
2024-04-14 19:57:16 +0000 <geekosaur> I think -fvia-C went away in 7.2
2024-04-14 19:57:29 +0000 <tomsmeding> microhs also compiles via "C" https://github.com/augustss/MicroHs/tree/master/generated
2024-04-14 19:58:00 +0000 <geekosaur> some intermediate stages https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/9.8.1/docs/users_guide/extending_ghc.html#compiler-plugins
2024-04-14 19:58:01 +0000 <EvanR> C""
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2024-04-14 20:27:36 +0000 <Inst> hmmm, that is cool, you can build a naive hlist with tuples and polymorphism
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2024-04-14 20:28:32 +0000 <Inst> I looked up the paper trial, it was because of this kata
2024-04-14 20:28:51 +0000 <Inst> https://www.codewars.com/kata/55a4de202949dca9bd000088/
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2024-04-14 20:29:06 +0000 <Inst> I took an interest in varargs since it naturally seemed to have been looking for varargs solutions
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2024-04-14 20:29:40 +0000 <Inst> btw, if you want to get 1kyu quick on Codewars, just use Haskell; they apparently have a ton of misranked Kata because they're in Haskell and/or Haskell specific
2024-04-14 20:30:07 +0000 <EvanR> varargs: [arg] -> A
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2024-04-14 20:31:36 +0000 <Inst> paper trail
2024-04-14 20:31:51 +0000tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-04-14 20:32:12 +0000 <Inst> yeah i saw that technique in some Haskell console libs
2024-04-14 20:32:17 +0000 <Inst> i probably should play with Brick one of these days
2024-04-14 20:32:23 +0000 <Inst> i still owe you guys a game
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2024-04-14 21:00:34 +0000 <Inst> just curious, but is there a way to get Tuples to parse unit as a nil for an hlist?
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2024-04-14 21:34:39 +0000 <cheater> i ran hasktags -bx . and set vim to use TAGS and all the tags are off by one line. anyone know why that happens?
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2024-04-14 23:09:42 +0000 <haskellbridge> <s​m> Liamzee: ansi-terminal-game is better suited to games
2024-04-14 23:11:27 +0000tri(~tri@ool-18bc2e74.dyn.optonline.net)
2024-04-14 23:15:28 +0000 <janus> cheater: i don't know but i use fast-tags: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/fast-tags
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2024-04-14 23:41:12 +0000 <Inst> thanks for the suggestion @sm
2024-04-14 23:41:26 +0000 <Inst> also, I'm not being reckless, and this is embarrassing, but...
2024-04-14 23:41:43 +0000 <Inst> I'm testing hackage-server right now on my system, and I can't get the behavior to be the way I need it to be
2024-04-14 23:41:56 +0000sawilagar(~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-04-14 23:42:36 +0000 <geekosaur> you probably want to ask in #hackage:matrix.org
2024-04-14 23:42:46 +0000 <geekosaur> (or #hackage on libera)
2024-04-14 23:44:23 +0000 <Inst> thanks
2024-04-14 23:44:43 +0000 <geekosaur> that said, there's no guarantee that "the way you need it to be" was included as a design consideration
2024-04-14 23:45:19 +0000 <Inst> oh, it's simply getting browse to sort by lastUpload
2024-04-14 23:54:28 +0000 <Inst> so unless I'm missing something, sm, doesn't seem to be as simple as you suggested?
2024-04-14 23:54:39 +0000 <Inst> in ref to a convo a couple of days back
2024-04-14 23:59:11 +0000 <Inst> sm: should I consider this beyond my paygrade and simply submit it as an issue and walk off?
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