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2024-02-01 00:14:14 +0100 | mrmr155334 | mrmr15533 |
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2024-02-01 00:24:39 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | 10<maralorn> Are any of the Ord instances of Int, Text, ShortText, ByteString, ShortByteString or Word64 locale dependent? |
2024-02-01 00:25:17 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | 10<maralorn> I am curious about those generall types. Concretely I want to know for Version and PackageName from Cabal-syntax. |
2024-02-01 00:25:55 +0100 | <L29Ah> | no, why would it be? |
2024-02-01 00:26:13 +0100 | <L29Ah> | Ord functions are pure after all |
2024-02-01 00:28:19 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | 10<maralorn> Because I vaguely remember that different locales resulted in different orderings for those types. |
2024-02-01 00:28:59 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | 10<maralorn> And because in general ordering of strings is locale dependent. |
2024-02-01 00:29:26 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | 10<maralorn> Of course not for Int, that would be crazy. |
2024-02-01 00:30:44 +0100 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving) |
2024-02-01 00:30:50 +0100 | <monochrom> | Their Ord instances are not locale-dependent. |
2024-02-01 00:31:38 +0100 | <yushyin> | https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/day/lchaskell/2024/01/08?id=1184811#trid1184811 |
2024-02-01 00:35:26 +0100 | <geekosaur> | I don't think that would even be meaningful: how would you, for example, compare PackageName-s for packages in different locales? |
2024-02-01 00:38:30 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | 10<maralorn> Oh, wow. yushyin. I completely forgot that I asked this question before. I am getting to old. |
2024-02-01 00:39:04 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | 10<maralorn> geekosaur: I have no clue. I will report back when I gathered more evidence that the ordering is unstable. |
2024-02-01 00:39:19 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | 10<maralorn> Thanks, yall. |
2024-02-01 00:39:41 +0100 | <yushyin> | happens! ;) |
2024-02-01 00:39:44 +0100 | <geekosaur> | the ordering is entirely stable, it's just lexical instead of locale-dependent |
2024-02-01 00:40:20 +0100 | <geekosaur> | and must be because the definition of "locale" is what's unstable there |
2024-02-01 00:48:27 +0100 | <geekosaur> | (and because, as mentioned, Ord is pure and therefore cannot be locale-dependent; locale information lives in IO) |
2024-02-01 00:50:39 +0100 | mud | (~mud@user/kadoban) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2024-02-01 00:50:58 +0100 | mud | (~mud@user/kadoban) |
2024-02-01 00:52:58 +0100 | cstml | (~cstml@user/cstml) |
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2024-02-01 00:55:32 +0100 | <sclv> | in particular Text etc are ordered in unicode byte order. their contents are _unicode_ not locale dependent |
2024-02-01 00:56:00 +0100 | <sclv> | it may be that you _read_ in Text from files, and the manner in which reading from those files is interpreted as text is locale dependent, but thats a function of the IO used in reading those files. |
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2024-02-01 09:40:37 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | 10<maralorn> Ah, that’s a good point. |
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2024-02-01 09:57:52 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
2024-02-01 09:58:38 +0100 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d173-183-246-216.abhsia.telus.net) |
2024-02-01 09:59:49 +0100 | Guest|28 | (~Guest|28@27.71.130.71) |
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2024-02-01 10:09:25 +0100 | foul_owl | (~kerry@157.97.134.164) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
2024-02-01 10:13:19 +0100 | <cheater> | what do you call this technique? you look at a code base, and look at a value somewhere within that code base. say return foo. you copy "return foo" to a new text file. then in the code base you go up, possibly through function calls, and look at what was assigned to foo. that's an expression that contains some other variables. so you look up those variables as well. you keep going until you hit well known library functions, or user input. you end up |
2024-02-01 10:13:19 +0100 | <cheater> | with one giant expression, or possibly a couple big ones, e.g. if expression1 is used a few times in expression2 (it makes more sense to do things like that for readability). you simplify the code as much as you can and, where functions are called, you get rid of arguments that don't do anything important (like eg arguments set to reasonable defaults, paths to config files, etc). you get rid of trivial functions like eg converting a Text to ByteString |
2024-02-01 10:13:19 +0100 | <cheater> | or converting a Float to Double, fromEnum, and the likes, to simplify the code to the absolute gist of it. |
2024-02-01 10:13:52 +0100 | <cheater> | i call it "reverse evaluation", but maybe someone has seen it somewhere else. |
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2024-02-01 10:26:23 +0100 | oo_miguel | (~Thunderbi@78-11-179-96.static.ip.netia.com.pl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
2024-02-01 10:31:03 +0100 | hsw | (~hsw@2001-b030-2303-0104-0172-0025-0012-0132.hinet-ip6.hinet.net) |
2024-02-01 10:32:14 +0100 | <kuribas> | cheater: inlining? |
2024-02-01 10:32:43 +0100 | <kuribas> | well, inlining and partial evaluation. |
2024-02-01 10:32:52 +0100 | <kuribas> | Maybe reduction to normal form. |
2024-02-01 10:32:57 +0100 | <cheater> | it's not really inlining, because yeah |
2024-02-01 10:33:21 +0100 | <cheater> | normal form implies an AST-style data structure and there being a normal form |
2024-02-01 10:33:43 +0100 | zetef | (~quassel@95.77.17.251) |
2024-02-01 10:34:32 +0100 | <kuribas> | well, depends on your definition of normal form :) |
2024-02-01 10:34:48 +0100 | <kuribas> | You can also evaluate known functions and known variables. |
2024-02-01 10:35:48 +0100 | <lortabac> | it's a form of partial evaluation |
2024-02-01 10:36:22 +0100 | <lortabac> | there is something called "constant folding" which is related to what you are describing |
2024-02-01 10:38:14 +0100 | <lortabac> | but more generally I would just say "partial evaluation" |
2024-02-01 10:40:33 +0100 | yeahitsme | (~bob@user/yeahitsme) |
2024-02-01 10:41:03 +0100 | <cheater> | what do you call it when you have a sentence written in denotational semantics, and you have a "tower of interpreters" or "tower of compilers", each of which denotates a new level of semantics for the same universal statement, and you take your original sentence, and you lift/drop it across that tower? |
2024-02-01 10:45:32 +0100 | mei | (~mei@user/mei) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2024-02-01 10:45:47 +0100 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) |
2024-02-01 10:46:35 +0100 | <cheater> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denotational_semantics#Denotational_semantics_as_source-to-source_tr… |
2024-02-01 10:46:42 +0100 | <cheater> | "denotational translation"? |
2024-02-01 10:47:59 +0100 | mei | (~mei@user/mei) |
2024-02-01 10:48:45 +0100 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!) |
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2024-02-01 10:50:12 +0100 | athan | (~athan@173-042-095-241.biz.spectrum.com) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
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2024-02-01 10:53:31 +0100 | <cheater> | it's also not decomplecting |
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2024-02-01 11:21:53 +0100 | <cheater> | "derecursion"? |
2024-02-01 11:22:04 +0100 | <cheater> | "full resolution"? |
2024-02-01 11:22:25 +0100 | <cheater> | "full dereferencing"? |
2024-02-01 11:26:07 +0100 | krei-se | (~krei-se@p508747fd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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2024-02-01 12:14:47 +0100 | <cheater> | mmmmh |
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2024-02-01 12:53:22 +0100 | mal1 | lieven |
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2024-02-01 14:55:08 +0100 | azimut | (~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) |
2024-02-01 14:58:50 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | cheater: yeah for your first question: first extraction (factoring out, perhaps) and then partial evaluation |
2024-02-01 14:59:10 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | partial evaluation includes both inlining definitions and specialising those definitions to the actual arguments being supplied, keeping some abstract/symbolic |
2024-02-01 15:00:00 +0100 | zetef | (~quassel@95.77.17.251) |
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2024-02-01 15:08:28 +0100 | waleee | (~waleee@h-176-10-144-38.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) |
2024-02-01 15:10:17 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
2024-02-01 15:10:33 +0100 | rosco | (~rosco@175.136.156.77) |
2024-02-01 15:19:05 +0100 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
2024-02-01 15:20:19 +0100 | <danse-nr3> | huh... a clue about a lens that changes the last element of a list please? I grew some ... worry about directly approaching Lens' doc |
2024-02-01 15:21:34 +0100 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) |
2024-02-01 15:21:50 +0100 | <ncf> | :t _last |
2024-02-01 15:21:51 +0100 | <lambdabot> | (Snoc s s a a, Applicative f) => (a -> f a) -> s -> f s |
2024-02-01 15:22:20 +0100 | <danse-nr3> | cool i am good with the final answer. Cheers |
2024-02-01 15:22:21 +0100 | oo_miguel | (~Thunderbi@78-11-179-96.static.ip.netia.com.pl) |
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2024-02-01 16:07:01 +0100 | mei | (~mei@user/mei) |
2024-02-01 16:13:02 +0100 | <cheater> | tomsmeding: right... but that doesn't include the elision of superfluous details |
2024-02-01 16:17:56 +0100 | waleee | (~waleee@h-176-10-144-38.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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2024-02-01 16:21:03 +0100 | rosco | (~rosco@175.136.156.77) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
2024-02-01 16:23:08 +0100 | chomwitt | (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a0b:b500:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2024-02-01 16:25:26 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | cheater: fair, but that kind of elision is dangerous in any case, because you can only really determine what's superfluous once you understand the code :p |
2024-02-01 16:25:30 +0100 | sorrowbird | (~hexcat@5.0.176.72) |
2024-02-01 16:25:59 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | what if some later expansion uncovers some ad-hoc polymorphism on a type distinction that you considered superfluous |
2024-02-01 16:26:18 +0100 | <cheater> | typeshit doesn't have ad-hoc polymorphism |
2024-02-01 16:26:21 +0100 | <cheater> | sorry typescript |
2024-02-01 16:26:43 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | nice typo |
2024-02-01 16:26:50 +0100 | <cheater> | it never was |
2024-02-01 16:27:01 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | but I see |
2024-02-01 16:27:14 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | (makes sense given the compilation target and compilation method) |
2024-02-01 16:27:43 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | okay I have a name for you |
2024-02-01 16:27:54 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | "fuck your abstraction, what does it do" |
2024-02-01 16:28:36 +0100 | <cheater> | how about "first-principle derivation" |
2024-02-01 16:29:10 +0100 | <cheater> | the final formula for foo is a "first-principle derivation" of foo |
2024-02-01 16:34:02 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | 06<sm> concretising ? deabstracting ? instantiating ? |
2024-02-01 16:35:25 +0100 | <sorrowbird> | wow this channel truly is interesting just like the lanagugage xD |
2024-02-01 16:35:33 +0100 | <sorrowbird> | hello people of the internet |
2024-02-01 16:36:24 +0100 | ark_ | (~ark_@2401:4900:1cba:d594:a141:b6ce:5948:8799) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
2024-02-01 16:37:28 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | 06<sm> hello sorrowbird |
2024-02-01 16:38:19 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | 06<sm> concretising ? deabstracting ? instantiating ? applying ? |
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2024-02-01 17:07:32 +0100 | sefidel | (~sefidel@user/sefidel) |
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2024-02-01 17:25:38 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | 15<Jade> hiya |
2024-02-01 17:27:26 +0100 | a51 | (a51@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/a51) |
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2024-02-01 18:21:02 +0100 | trnry | (~nate@c-67-169-255-59.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
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2024-02-01 18:34:40 +0100 | <trnry> | So I've been away from Haskell for a number of years, and now I'm struggling to compile something I used to do all the time. I used to always copy the source for reflex-gloss when I needed to make a visualization tool and build off of it. But what is basically the hello world of what I am doing is failing to build when I turn on GHC2021 instead of Haskell2010. I have narrowed the offending |
2024-02-01 18:34:42 +0100 | <trnry> | extension down to PolyKinds. I don't think I know anything about kind polymorphism, so could someone help me understand why this breaks when PolyKinds is on? |
2024-02-01 18:34:50 +0100 | <trnry> | This is my file: https://paste.debian.net/1306028/ |
2024-02-01 18:34:55 +0100 | waleee | (~waleee@h-176-10-144-38.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) |
2024-02-01 18:35:00 +0100 | <trnry> | And this is the error: https://paste.debian.net/1306029/ |
2024-02-01 18:39:26 +0100 | billchenchina | (~billchenc@2a0d:2580:ff0c:1:e3c9:c52b:a429:5bfe) (Quit: Leaving) |
2024-02-01 18:45:12 +0100 | szkl | (uid110435@id-110435.uxbridge.irccloud.com) |
2024-02-01 18:45:58 +0100 | danse-nr3 | (~danse@151.43.129.204) |
2024-02-01 18:46:33 +0100 | <EvanR> | trnry, your handleTrigger helper function in the where clause might need a type signature if it would refer to type variables |
2024-02-01 18:46:36 +0100 | <EvanR> | just a guess |
2024-02-01 18:47:44 +0100 | <EvanR> | another way to bumble ahead is to break out your functions into dedicated top level functions (with extra params for the closed over variables) and make sure they type check |
2024-02-01 18:48:33 +0100 | <EvanR> | just putting a type signature on `network' might also help the error message |
2024-02-01 18:49:22 +0100 | moixa | (~moixa@customer-178-16-208-85.stosn.net) |
2024-02-01 18:50:16 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
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2024-02-01 19:02:16 +0100 | rvalue | (~rvalue@user/rvalue) |
2024-02-01 19:02:31 +0100 | <[Leary]> | trnry: I'm not 100%, but I think the issue is that the polymorphism for the type `t` and it's kind `k1` are divorced. Due to the polymorphic `network` argument, the implementor of `playReflex` gets to choose any convenient `t` ... or so you would, but you're blocked by the fact that the /caller/ of `playReflex` chooses `k1`. |
2024-02-01 19:03:28 +0100 | <[Leary]> | Try changing the type of the argument to `(forall k (t :: k) m. GlossApp t m)`. |
2024-02-01 19:04:10 +0100 | zetef | (~quassel@95.77.17.251) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2024-02-01 19:04:40 +0100 | pretty_d1 | (trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) |
2024-02-01 19:06:11 +0100 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Quit: sord937) |
2024-02-01 19:08:07 +0100 | pretty_dumm_guy | (trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
2024-02-01 19:08:28 +0100 | tcard | (~tcard@2400:4051:5801:7500:cf17:befc:ff82:5303) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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2024-02-01 19:17:39 +0100 | pretty_d1 | (trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5) |
2024-02-01 19:21:20 +0100 | akegalj | (~akegalj@78-2-181-173.adsl.net.t-com.hr) (Quit: leaving) |
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2024-02-01 20:22:28 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2024-02-01 20:23:44 +0100 | causal | (~eric@50.35.85.7) (Quit: WeeChat 4.1.1) |
2024-02-01 20:25:19 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) |
2024-02-01 20:30:53 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
2024-02-01 20:41:56 +0100 | tri | (~tri@24.187.239.26) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2024-02-01 20:45:07 +0100 | trev | (~trev@user/trev) (Quit: trev) |
2024-02-01 20:46:03 +0100 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf1f17240450275ffdb3cdae.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
2024-02-01 20:46:03 +0100 | tri | (~tri@ool-18bbef1a.static.optonline.net) |
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2024-02-01 20:50:16 +0100 | <trnry> | [Leary]: That did it, thanks a bunch |
2024-02-01 20:50:38 +0100 | <trnry> | I'm surprised at how much I feel like I don't know what I'm doing now that it's been a couple years |
2024-02-01 20:51:12 +0100 | nitrix | (~nitrix@user/nitrix) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
2024-02-01 20:51:25 +0100 | systemhalted | (~systemhal@172.59.192.22) |
2024-02-01 20:52:23 +0100 | nitrix | (~nitrix@user/nitrix) |
2024-02-01 20:56:10 +0100 | <[Leary]> | Blame implicit binders. If you /had/ to bind `k` explicitly, you probably would have done so in the right place. |
2024-02-01 20:56:34 +0100 | systemhalted | (~systemhal@172.59.192.22) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
2024-02-01 20:56:54 +0100 | jmdaemon | (~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) |
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2024-02-01 23:28:38 +0100 | drrzmr | (~Eder@179.113.240.37) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2024-02-01 23:28:56 +0100 | Guest62 | (~Guest62@210.142.79.188.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
2024-02-01 23:29:23 +0100 | drrzmr | (~Eder@179.113.240.37) |
2024-02-01 23:34:27 +0100 | rscastilho2024 | (rscastilho@189.61.140.215) |
2024-02-01 23:35:12 +0100 | rscastilho2024 | (rscastilho@189.61.140.215) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2024-02-01 23:39:17 +0100 | coot | (~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl) (Quit: coot) |
2024-02-01 23:42:29 +0100 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d173-183-246-216.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
2024-02-01 23:45:25 +0100 | tri | (~tri@ool-18bbef1a.static.optonline.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2024-02-01 23:45:37 +0100 | tri | (~tri@ool-18bbef1a.static.optonline.net) |
2024-02-01 23:45:39 +0100 | tri | (~tri@ool-18bbef1a.static.optonline.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2024-02-01 23:48:14 +0100 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e737e724c4ba4b0a65630397.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
2024-02-01 23:56:09 +0100 | Guest62 | (~Guest62@210.142.79.188.dynamic.jazztel.es) (Quit: Client closed) |