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2023/09/06

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2023-09-06 02:58:10 +0200 <wroathe> Is there a way to express the class of all types that have a field of type T?
2023-09-06 02:58:12 +0200paulpaul1076(~textual@95-26-14-70.broadband.corbina.ru)
2023-09-06 02:58:34 +0200stites(~stites@2601:19c:4180:2fa0:9fc4:9658:a440:7fc2)
2023-09-06 02:58:38 +0200aaronv(~aaronv@user/aaronv)
2023-09-06 02:58:55 +0200 <c_wraith> you really shouldn't. Classes should always be opt-in.
2023-09-06 02:58:59 +0200 <wroathe> For example all types with a field of type Text, so data Foo = Foo Int Text Bool would match, but data Bar = Bar Int String Bool would not
2023-09-06 03:00:01 +0200 <Axman6> the HasField class comes close, it has class HasField (x :: k) r a | x r -> a where, but I don't think you can meaningfully do something like: foo :: HasField x r T => x -> Bool
2023-09-06 03:00:08 +0200 <EvanR> Foo Text Int has a field, Bar Int Text has a field, Baz Text Text has TWO fields, even better
2023-09-06 03:00:16 +0200 <EvanR> (but no field names)
2023-09-06 03:00:38 +0200 <Axman6> you could use generics-sop to build that constraint pretty easily though
2023-09-06 03:01:00 +0200 <Axman6> and you could do it in a way that ensures there is exactly one field of that type
2023-09-06 03:01:02 +0200 <wroathe> Well my use case is that I've got types that represent SQL tables where I've got a newtype field wrapper with a phantom type parameter that indicates the field is a primary key. I want to define the class of types that has a PrimaryKey field: data Foo = Foo { foo :: Constrained Text '[PrimaryKey], }
2023-09-06 03:01:20 +0200chromoblob(~user@37.113.180.113) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2023-09-06 03:01:23 +0200 <Axman6> the generic-lens package has stuff for this actually, IIRC
2023-09-06 03:01:48 +0200 <wroathe> Thanks Axman6. I'll have a look at these.
2023-09-06 03:02:01 +0200 <c_wraith> write your class, give it a default instance that uses genericyuhujikop[]\
2023-09-06 03:02:10 +0200 <c_wraith> err, sorry about that. cat interference.
2023-09-06 03:02:23 +0200 <c_wraith> But leave the class opt-in
2023-09-06 03:02:39 +0200 <c_wraith> just say "no" to writing classes for all types.
2023-09-06 03:03:03 +0200 <wroathe> The opt-in is given by the fact that only types that have this Constrained newtype with this '[PrimaryKey] parameter will be part of the class
2023-09-06 03:03:17 +0200 <c_wraith> that's not how classes work
2023-09-06 03:03:19 +0200 <wroathe> Also this isn't a library, so I'm free to get up to all kinds of hijinx :P
2023-09-06 03:03:26 +0200 <c_wraith> If you write an instance for all types, it's for all types
2023-09-06 03:03:44 +0200 <c_wraith> Even if not all types can satisfy the additional constraints
2023-09-06 03:04:49 +0200 <c_wraith> It's so much easier in the long term to explicitly opt in.
2023-09-06 03:05:03 +0200 <c_wraith> Like.. things don't break the first time you have a special case.
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2023-09-06 03:09:39 +0200 <Axman6> I would defiitely look at generic-lens, there's lots of stuff in there for similar ideas
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2023-09-06 03:37:45 +0200 <Axman6> is there a lensism for making multiple changes to a subsection of a structure? foo & _APrism . _2 .~ True & _APrism . _3 .~ "Hello" --> foo & ._APrism . (_2 .~ True ??? _3 .~ "Hello")
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2023-09-06 03:49:15 +0200 <probie> Axman6: What would be the intended semantics if both lenses modified the same part of the structure?
2023-09-06 03:49:34 +0200 <jackdk> Axman6: `foo & _APrism %~ (lensProduct _2 _3 .~ (True, "Hello"))`, but `Control.Lens.Unsound.lensProduct` must be given disjoint lenses
2023-09-06 03:50:15 +0200 <c_wraith> > [(1,2), (3,4), (5,6)] &~ zoom (ix 1) (do _1 .= 7 ; _2 .= 9) -- Axman6: alternatively, you can get nice concrete semantics with something like this
2023-09-06 03:50:17 +0200 <lambdabot> [(1,2),(7,9),(5,6)]
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2023-09-06 03:50:37 +0200otto_s(~user@p5de2f2f3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2023-09-06 03:54:04 +0200 <c_wraith> ok, you can do it with less complexity:
2023-09-06 03:54:05 +0200 <c_wraith> > [(1,2), (3,4), (5,6)] & ix 1 %~ (_1 .~ 7) . (_2 .~ 9)
2023-09-06 03:54:05 +0200arahael(~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net)
2023-09-06 03:54:06 +0200 <lambdabot> [(1,2),(7,9),(5,6)]
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2023-09-06 04:04:12 +0200 <jackdk> Oh yeah the operator Axman6 is looking for is actually `(.)`. Because everything in lens is secretly `(.)` or `id`
2023-09-06 04:06:23 +0200 <c_wraith> well, the real trick in what I did was %~
2023-09-06 04:06:43 +0200 <c_wraith> Which... ok, it's a coerce away from id. (It uses some Identity wrappers)
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2023-09-06 04:20:39 +0200 <Axman6> probie: definitely perform the left update and then the right (which the lens laws should insure is fine, given that foo .~ x & foo .~ y == foo .~ y
2023-09-06 04:21:06 +0200 <Axman6> hmmm, I guess using %~ works
2023-09-06 04:23:17 +0200 <Axman6> needs something with different fixity than (.) though, because you end up needing to put each setting expression in brackets: _APrism %~ ((_2 .~ True) . (_3 .~ "Hello"))
2023-09-06 04:23:39 +0200 <Axman6> oh I guess the outer ones are unneeded
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2023-09-06 05:50:47 +0200 <c_wraith> Axman6: you can lose the inner brackets if you use set instead of .~
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2023-09-06 06:32:02 +0200 <Axman6> Anyone have opinions on which yaml library to use?
2023-09-06 06:36:08 +0200 <probie> For dealing with yaml in all its glory, or yaml as "JSON with comments and less string quoting"?
2023-09-06 06:39:15 +0200shiraeeshi(~shiraeesh@46.42.245.170) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2023-09-06 06:42:21 +0200 <jackdk> convert in/out of dhall
2023-09-06 06:44:23 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7072f3028e66677b5f34067.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2023-09-06 06:45:03 +0200 <probie> I've used Snoyman's one which is just named "yaml", and whilst it worked for my use case, it bothered me because it doesn't support yaml 1.2, and because I also don't like Aeson.
2023-09-06 06:45:06 +0200 <Axman6> Possibly YAML in all its glory, I'm definitely planning to have some form of referencing/templating (think: "array: {of: Boolean, size: 8, count: $CHANNEL_COUNT}}
2023-09-06 06:47:04 +0200 <probie> It also explicitly rejects yaml documents with a version other than 1.1, when the spec says they "should be processed with an appropriate warning"
2023-09-06 06:47:06 +0200 <Axman6> I was looking at https://hackage.haskell.org/package/yaml-combinators-1.1.2.1/docs/Data-Yaml-Combinators.html which seems like it does some things I would want. Not sure how well it reports errors though, I would love something that tells me exactly where something went wrong (and possibly gave me the ability to extract location information for everything while parsing, since i'll need to do something to resolve those variables too)
2023-09-06 06:48:09 +0200 <Axman6> Maybe something like Dhall isn't a terrible idea
2023-09-06 06:48:45 +0200 <Axman6> Hmmm, maybe that is actually, in fact, a good idea.
2023-09-06 06:50:24 +0200 <probie> I wonder why so few yaml libraries simultaneously support yaml 1.1 and yaml 1.2?
2023-09-06 06:59:29 +0200takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2023-09-06 07:00:56 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
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2023-09-06 07:07:30 +0200 <Axman6> Probably because YAML Is Hard^{TM} (https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3790454/how-do-i-break-a-string-in-yaml-over-multiple-lines/21… - I used to work with Steve who wrote that answer, see also https://yaml-multiline.info)
2023-09-06 07:17:32 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@c-76-156-89-180.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-09-06 07:21:14 +0200oo_miguel(~Thunderbi@78-11-179-96.static.ip.netia.com.pl)
2023-09-06 07:22:53 +0200vglfr(~vglfr@cli-188-239-233-89.bbn.slav.dn.ua) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2023-09-06 07:28:16 +0200 <probie> A fun game is seeing if it'll accept something like `? !!int 3.14` and if so what it gives. Yaml itself doesn't require string keys (or even scalar keys for that matter), but it should fail because 3.14 isn't an int
2023-09-06 07:28:18 +0200 <Axman6> Hmmmm, the lack of recursive types might make Dhall a non-starter, but maybe that's workable. I'm specifically looking to define hierarchies, which might have bounded depth, but I don't know what it would be
2023-09-06 07:31:52 +0200michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.205)
2023-09-06 07:31:54 +0200 <Axman6> ... can you emulate arbitrary recursion by using type level naturals and specifying the maximum height?
2023-09-06 07:32:21 +0200vglfr(~vglfr@88.155.183.100) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-09-06 07:32:34 +0200vglfr(~vglfr@cli-188-239-233-89.bbn.slav.dn.ua)
2023-09-06 07:37:33 +0200 <Lears> Axman6: Dhall is approximately System F, so you have "recursive" types via least and greatest fixed points of your chosen functor.
2023-09-06 07:37:51 +0200_ht(~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl) (Quit: _ht)
2023-09-06 07:38:28 +0200 <Lears> This is in Haskell, but can be translated in principle: https://gist.github.com/LSLeary/98763e62f6fe4a2d629f74b38b9f2e45
2023-09-06 07:39:09 +0200 <Lears> There should be a library you can use somewhere so you don't actually need to do that translation yourself.
2023-09-06 07:40:19 +0200Square(~Square@user/square)
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2023-09-06 07:45:56 +0200libertyprime(~libertypr@203.96.203.44)
2023-09-06 07:46:02 +0200 <Axman6> well, that is definitely not going to fly at work, I can't barely follow that, and the rest of the team is python devs
2023-09-06 07:46:12 +0200Square(~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2023-09-06 07:48:51 +0200 <Lears> It basically comes down to "use newtype List a = List (forall r. r -> (a -> r -> r) -> r), not data List a = Nil | Cons a (List a)".
2023-09-06 07:49:07 +0200 <Lears> You can hide the complexity inside and write an easy interface.
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2023-09-06 09:12:11 +0200 <jackdk> https://github.com/jcouyang/dhall-aws-cloudformation/blob/master/Fn.dhall Axman6 I only have the vaguest idea of how this works, but I can confidently say that none of us have needed to know or care to be able to use it. (It's an implementation of an AST for the `Fn::*` functions in CloudFormation templates)
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2023-09-06 09:17:44 +0200 <Axman6> I am impressed and disgusted at the same time
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2023-09-06 13:37:49 +0200danse-nr3(~francesco@151.43.106.172)
2023-09-06 13:38:44 +0200Keinbou(~Keinbou@78.26.243.100)
2023-09-06 13:46:21 +0200 <Keinbou> Greetings everyone. I have a problem regarding GHCup installation. My Windows cannot open certain file: msys2_shell.cmd. It says it does not exist. Any suggestions?
2023-09-06 13:50:41 +0200 <jackdk> Keinbou: I don't have and have not developed for windows for a very long time, but it appears that file is part of msys2, which is a suite of tools to provide a unix-like shell for running traditional `./configure` scripts
2023-09-06 13:51:06 +0200 <jackdk> Keinbou: https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/install/ has a manual install section which you could try, which talks about installing and setting up msys2?
2023-09-06 13:51:30 +0200 <jackdk> Keinbou: sorry I can't be more help, it's late here and I need to sleep, but I didn't want to leave you hanging
2023-09-06 13:51:38 +0200chexum(~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-06 13:51:55 +0200chexum(~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum)
2023-09-06 13:53:06 +0200 <jackdk> (The manual windows install instructions are very close to the bottom of that page)
2023-09-06 13:57:31 +0200danse-nr3(~francesco@151.43.106.172) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2023-09-06 13:58:17 +0200dcoutts(~duncan@cpc69402-oxfd27-2-0-cust903.4-3.cable.virginm.net)
2023-09-06 13:59:17 +0200 <Keinbou> Thank you! I'll try.
2023-09-06 14:02:07 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Excess Flood)
2023-09-06 14:03:09 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
2023-09-06 14:11:31 +0200Skillkraft(~Skillkraf@189.172.56.161)
2023-09-06 14:11:32 +0200 <Skillkraft> Read a children's story about diarrhea and empathy on an airplane! ::: he Adventure of Westeastern Flight 194: Emily Goes Poopie
2023-09-06 14:11:32 +0200 <Skillkraft> Delta-India-Alpha-Romeo-Romeo-Hotel-Echo-Alpha! We have a huge fecal mess in the cabin! ::: https://justpaste.it/mile-high-diarrhea-delta-airline
2023-09-06 14:12:43 +0200SkillkraftSkiltoniano
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2023-09-06 14:27:20 +0200Guest|28(~Guest|28@104.28.247.174)
2023-09-06 14:27:48 +0200 <Guest|28> Hi
2023-09-06 14:28:07 +0200 <Guest|28> How to run .hs file after installation
2023-09-06 14:31:27 +0200m1dnight(~christoph@78-22-4-67.access.telenet.be) (Server closed connection)
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2023-09-06 14:34:43 +0200Keinbou(~Keinbou@78.26.243.100) (Quit: Connection closed)
2023-09-06 14:34:57 +0200 <danse-nr3> Guest|28, did you install GHCUp or what?
2023-09-06 14:45:17 +0200Guest|28(~Guest|28@104.28.247.174) (Quit: Connection closed)
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2023-09-06 16:25:35 +0200thegeekinside(~thegeekin@189.180.122.37)
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2023-09-06 16:31:46 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> Anyone have any thoughts on how to implement / represent "SHA256d" using cryptonite? Should I define my own "SHA256d" like "SHA256" and then implement all of the classes that SHA256 implements? This sounds a bit tedious :/ A shortcut would be nice ...
2023-09-06 16:33:15 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> I'm also not even _sure_ SHA256d fits into cryptonite's HashAlgorithm class :/
2023-09-06 16:34:21 +0200fendor(~fendor@2a02:8388:1640:be00:c785:45ab:c70:9d3f) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-09-06 16:34:49 +0200 <danse-nr3> is that SHA246 digest?
2023-09-06 16:35:00 +0200cptaffe-(~cptaffe@2600:1700:f08:111f::18e7)
2023-09-06 16:35:03 +0200erty(~user@user/aeroplane) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-09-06 16:35:13 +0200cptaffe(~cptaffe@2600:1700:f08:111f::18e7) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2023-09-06 16:35:30 +0200 <geekosaur> I thought everyone was moving to crypton, not that that necessarily changes things
2023-09-06 16:35:36 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> It's SHA256 where the digest is fed through SHA256 again
2023-09-06 16:35:47 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> geekosaur: Yes, I suppose, but I'm not there yet.
2023-09-06 16:39:31 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@ool-44c738de.dyn.optonline.net)
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2023-09-06 16:46:32 +0200Feuermagier_(~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier)
2023-09-06 16:46:32 +0200Feuermagier(~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) (Killed (tungsten.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)))
2023-09-06 16:46:32 +0200Feuermagier_Feuermagier
2023-09-06 16:47:34 +0200cael_(~quassel@host109-149-135-250.range109-149.btcentralplus.com)
2023-09-06 16:50:30 +0200erty(~user@user/aeroplane)
2023-09-06 16:53:52 +0200 <cael_> Hello, I'm new to haskell, whats the haskell community like
2023-09-06 16:55:15 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> a warm summer's day
2023-09-06 16:56:31 +0200 <cael_> glad to hear it
2023-09-06 16:56:49 +0200swistak(~swistak@185.21.216.141)
2023-09-06 16:57:52 +0200 <cael_> Its in an interesting place as a programming language, being a relativly popular language developed in academia
2023-09-06 16:59:10 +0200 <cael_> functional programming is also quite interesting as a concept, I suppose it would be nice to have another perspective / approach to programming
2023-09-06 17:00:14 +0200 <mauke> what's your background?
2023-09-06 17:00:22 +0200 <cael_> physics
2023-09-06 17:00:40 +0200 <cael_> the only programming language I would call myself profficient in is python
2023-09-06 17:00:47 +0200 <mauke> ah
2023-09-06 17:01:21 +0200 <danse-nr3> i recall some physicists mentioning fortran as a popular language in that field
2023-09-06 17:02:57 +0200 <cael_> I'm currently an undergrad, I havent encounterd it but I have heard that as well
2023-09-06 17:02:58 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> fortran will definitely give you a new perspective if you're coming from python.
2023-09-06 17:03:33 +0200 <sinbad> cael_: here you go with haskell in physics: https://discourse.haskell.org/t/book-learn-physics-with-functional-programming/7533
2023-09-06 17:04:28 +0200 <mauke> > [ x^2 | x <- [1 .. 10], even x ] -- have some comprehension
2023-09-06 17:04:29 +0200 <lambdabot> [4,16,36,64,100]
2023-09-06 17:05:24 +0200 <danse-nr3> the python-friendly feature i like the most in haskell is doctests
2023-09-06 17:05:45 +0200 <mauke> what's that?
2023-09-06 17:06:17 +0200 <cael_> I've had a brief look through the physics book, I've also started https://book.realworldhaskell.org/
2023-09-06 17:06:50 +0200jeetelongname(~jeet@cpc96970-rdng25-2-0-cust390.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2023-09-06 17:06:55 +0200 <cael_> idk if this is the best resource to learn it from scratch
2023-09-06 17:07:02 +0200hiyori(~hiyori@user/hiyori)
2023-09-06 17:07:27 +0200arahael(~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net)
2023-09-06 17:07:28 +0200 <danse-nr3> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/doctest-0.22.1#a-basic-example mauke
2023-09-06 17:07:32 +0200 <EvanR> cael_, here's what I used... https://www.haskell.org/tutorial/
2023-09-06 17:08:06 +0200 <mauke> huh. I don't even remember how I learned Haskell
2023-09-06 17:08:09 +0200 <EvanR> skip to Values, Types, and Other Goodies to start in media res
2023-09-06 17:08:49 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> I got this far on a `DoubleHash` `HashAlgorithm` but I'm not sure what's going on with `digestPtr` there - https://gist.github.com/exarkun/f0e5f6a1688b72b78b0390ab3c4f08bc
2023-09-06 17:09:02 +0200 <mauke> medias, but now I have to look up the declension of 'res'
2023-09-06 17:09:44 +0200 <danse-nr3> it means "start from the middle"
2023-09-06 17:10:23 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> awww, nevermind, I just put some parens in a silly place.
2023-09-06 17:10:41 +0200 <geekosaur> I don't think I recommend the "Gentle Introduction" to someone who isn't already reasonably well versed in SML/NJ or other functional language; iirc it assumes you understand things like pattern matching already and just covers Haskell's differences in that area
2023-09-06 17:10:52 +0200 <geekosaur> I started from it but I already knew some SML
2023-09-06 17:10:54 +0200 <mauke> ah, accusative plural
2023-09-06 17:11:40 +0200 <mauke> "into the middle things"
2023-09-06 17:11:57 +0200arahael(~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-09-06 17:12:10 +0200 <mauke> right, I already knew OCaml when I started looking at Haskell
2023-09-06 17:12:31 +0200mima(~mmh@net-93-148-94-242.cust.dsl.teletu.it) (Quit: leaving)
2023-09-06 17:12:39 +0200 <EvanR> section 2 explains pattern matching almost without even explaining it, it's great
2023-09-06 17:12:43 +0200ystael(~ystael@user/ystael)
2023-09-06 17:13:06 +0200 <mauke> jean-paul. btw, 'do X; pure ()' is 'void X'
2023-09-06 17:13:29 +0200 <geekosaur> anyway for free resources I recommend the wikibook, for paid I recommend Hutton's book
2023-09-06 17:13:36 +0200 <geekosaur> @where wikibook
2023-09-06 17:13:36 +0200 <lambdabot> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell
2023-09-06 17:13:42 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> mauke: indeed, thanks.
2023-09-06 17:14:08 +0200arahael(~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net)
2023-09-06 17:14:14 +0200 <geekosaur> @where pih
2023-09-06 17:14:14 +0200 <lambdabot> "Programming in Haskell" by Graham Hutton in 2007-01-15,2016-09-01 at <http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~pszgmh/pih.html>
2023-09-06 17:14:37 +0200 <EvanR> also you can read a pamphlet sized awful-looking free page at an easily remembered URL while also buying 100 dollars worth of textbooks for later
2023-09-06 17:14:52 +0200 <danse-nr3> @where doctest
2023-09-06 17:14:52 +0200 <lambdabot> I know nothing about doctest.
2023-09-06 17:15:01 +0200 <geekosaur> @hackage doctest
2023-09-06 17:15:01 +0200 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/doctest
2023-09-06 17:15:07 +0200 <danse-nr3> cheers
2023-09-06 17:15:10 +0200 <mauke> danse-nr3: thanks
2023-09-06 17:15:27 +0200 <cael_> hmm thanks, I did the interactive tutorial on haskell.org which introduced pattern matching, I know I will need to go into more depth but I enjoyed the tutorial
2023-09-06 17:15:36 +0200 <mauke> @where+ doctest https://hackage.haskell.org/package/doctest
2023-09-06 17:15:36 +0200 <lambdabot> Okay.
2023-09-06 17:15:48 +0200 <cael_> currently looking at the above resources
2023-09-06 17:17:55 +0200 <geekosaur> there's also
2023-09-06 17:18:00 +0200 <geekosaur> @where cis194
2023-09-06 17:18:00 +0200 <lambdabot> <https://github.com/byorgey/haskell-course>,<https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cis194/spring13/lectures.html>
2023-09-06 17:18:03 +0200bratwurst(~blaadsfa@2604:3d09:207f:f650:216:3eff:fe5a:a1f8)
2023-09-06 17:18:06 +0200ystael(~ystael@user/ystael) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-06 17:18:24 +0200arahael(~arahael@119-18-1-27.771201.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-09-06 17:18:29 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:4c6f:d24c:af4b:1ac3) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2023-09-06 17:18:29 +0200 <geekosaur> which, since you're not actually taking the course, you can do at your own pace
2023-09-06 17:18:35 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 4.0.4)
2023-09-06 17:19:41 +0200nate2(~nate@c-98-45-169-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2023-09-06 17:21:38 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> I can say I did cis194 after tinkering with some other Haskell resources on and off and I found cis194 to be very helpful in solidifying my understanding of a lot of pieces.
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2023-09-06 17:48:39 +0200kuribas(~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be)
2023-09-06 17:49:51 +0200 <chromoblob> is there a thing such as "freestanding Haskell"? sure you need an RTS anyways, but...
2023-09-06 17:50:30 +0200 <geekosaur> you might look at jhc
2023-09-06 17:51:04 +0200 <c_wraith> like... fully statically linked?
2023-09-06 17:51:19 +0200 <mauke> ... House?
2023-09-06 17:51:40 +0200 <c_wraith> people have used alpine linux to get fully standalone linux binaries out of GHC
2023-09-06 17:51:54 +0200 <geekosaur> so now we have three different notions of what you meant; could you elucidate?
2023-09-06 17:52:36 +0200 <chromoblob> no, freestanding is unrelated to fully statically linked
2023-09-06 17:53:20 +0200 <chromoblob> i mean, without support of OS interface
2023-09-06 17:53:47 +0200econo_(uid147250@id-147250.tinside.irccloud.com)
2023-09-06 17:54:10 +0200 <EvanR> there was a project to get haskell to run on bare metal... what was it called
2023-09-06 17:54:17 +0200 <geekosaur> halvm?
2023-09-06 17:54:20 +0200 <EvanR> yeah
2023-09-06 17:55:06 +0200 <mauke> @where house
2023-09-06 17:55:06 +0200 <lambdabot> http://programatica.cs.pdx.edu/House/
2023-09-06 17:57:47 +0200 <EvanR> yeah that to
2023-09-06 17:57:51 +0200 <chromoblob> ok thanks
2023-09-06 17:58:13 +0200 <chromoblob> i have a weak, purely idle interest in asking
2023-09-06 17:58:15 +0200thegeekinside(~thegeekin@189.180.122.37)
2023-09-06 17:58:35 +0200 <EvanR> damn I want the gedit program featured In House
2023-09-06 17:59:44 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> I have worked with Foreign.C for byte strings and such before ... but now I have a `Ptr (Digest a)`... Can I work on the `Digest a` from Haskell or is this only for handing off to C?
2023-09-06 18:00:14 +0200 <EvanR> if you have functions that work on Ptr (Digest a), you're golden!
2023-09-06 18:00:21 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> :)
2023-09-06 18:00:27 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> And if not?
2023-09-06 18:00:36 +0200 <EvanR> otherwise you can use peek to get the Digest a, if it has a Storable instance
2023-09-06 18:00:40 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> Or ... How do I write such a function? :)
2023-09-06 18:00:48 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> it has no Storable instance :/
2023-09-06 18:00:51 +0200 <EvanR> hmm
2023-09-06 18:01:09 +0200 <geekosaur> you're not guaranteed to have a `Digest`, it's a phantom parameter for the `Ptr` (`Addr#`)
2023-09-06 18:01:45 +0200 <EvanR> so it's probably intended to be an opaque pointer here
2023-09-06 18:01:51 +0200stites(~stites@2601:19c:4180:2fa0:1494:4fbd:f1f4:16a7) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2023-09-06 18:02:11 +0200 <geekosaur> you can access the memory using the `Foreign` interface but you need to know what it represents, which will depend on where you got it from
2023-09-06 18:02:24 +0200ystael(~ystael@user/ystael)
2023-09-06 18:02:36 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> Digest has a ByteArrayAccess instance... but I couldn't see how that would help
2023-09-06 18:03:18 +0200 <EvanR> that sounds promising
2023-09-06 18:03:39 +0200stites(~stites@2607:fb91:dc0:4d13:97ee:5235:aade:8ffa)
2023-09-06 18:04:27 +0200 <geekosaur> "For example function convert can transform one ByteArrayAccess concrete type like Digest to a ByteString"
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2023-09-06 18:05:29 +0200 <mauke> doesn't help with the Ptr part, though
2023-09-06 18:05:43 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> Yea, I don't see how to get through the Ptr...
2023-09-06 18:06:02 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2023-09-06 18:06:22 +0200 <geekosaur> yeh, I just noticed that, it can go *to* a `Ptr` but not *from*
2023-09-06 18:07:00 +0200 <EvanR> safety first
2023-09-06 18:09:14 +0200 <geekosaur> but it looks like `ByteArray` works with `Ptr`s, and `withByteArray` seems to be what you want?
2023-09-06 18:10:13 +0200 <mauke> we don't have a bytearray
2023-09-06 18:10:44 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> I have a `Ptr (Digest a)`
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2023-09-06 19:15:05 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> so .. `Digest a` is a newtype around `Block Word8`. `Block` is a data with one field, `ByteArray#` (type parameters to both types phantom). How many kinds of wrong is `coerce @(Ptr (Digest a)) @CString`?
2023-09-06 19:23:51 +0200exarkun(~exarkun@user/exarkun)
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2023-09-06 19:50:32 +0200 <EvanR> haha
2023-09-06 19:51:18 +0200 <EvanR> CString = Ptr Char implies there's a string with intentionally null terminated end somewhere?
2023-09-06 19:51:21 +0200Vq(~vq@90-227-195-9-no77.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-09-06 19:51:40 +0200 <EvanR> Digest sounds like a block of arbitrary bytes
2023-09-06 19:52:50 +0200Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542)
2023-09-06 19:53:30 +0200sm(~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2023-09-06 19:55:12 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> In this case it's a fixed length of arbitrary bytes, not nul terminated, yes
2023-09-06 19:55:28 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> but I know the fixed length, I don't need CStringLen or similar to tell me
2023-09-06 19:56:25 +0200hiyori(~hiyori@user/hiyori) (Quit: Client closed)
2023-09-06 19:56:32 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> (I can ask `Digest a` how many bytes are there with the associated type family `HashDigestSize a`)
2023-09-06 19:56:59 +0200libertyprime(~libertypr@203.96.203.44)
2023-09-06 20:03:12 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> my HashAlgorithm instance blows up after it encounters undefined somewhere, even after I take all the undefineds out of my code, hrmph :/
2023-09-06 20:03:28 +0200Vq(~vq@90-227-195-9-no77.tbcn.telia.com)
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2023-09-06 20:07:57 +0200 <EvanR> you can take `undefined' out of the code, but that doesn't necessarily make the code defined!
2023-09-06 20:08:12 +0200ystael(~ystael@user/ystael) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2023-09-06 20:09:15 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> :)
2023-09-06 20:09:40 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> cryptonite hash implementation is littered with undefined
2023-09-06 20:09:53 +0200ystael(~ystael@user/ystael)
2023-09-06 20:10:27 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> they all look safe to me though
2023-09-06 20:13:30 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> Hruuumph. The difference between undefined and defined is whether I write my instance functions like this: `hashBlockSize DoubleHash = hashBlockSize @hash undefined` (undefined) or like this: `hashBlockSize _ = hashBlockSize @hash undefined` (defined)
2023-09-06 20:13:40 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> Seems like an interesting language property I should probably know about
2023-09-06 20:15:06 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:2985:35e0:893a:ad44)
2023-09-06 20:16:18 +0200 <mauke> the first form pattern matches on the argument, which forces evaluation
2023-09-06 20:16:20 +0200qqq(~qqq@92.43.167.61)
2023-09-06 20:17:31 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> the definition of `DoubleHash` is `data DoubleHash hash = DoubleHash` ... (so, no undefines being carried along there). What gets evaluated exactly?
2023-09-06 20:18:49 +0200 <ncf> the argument gets evaluated. if it's a thunk, it gets forced
2023-09-06 20:19:22 +0200 <mauke> someone is calling 'hashBlockSize undefined'
2023-09-06 20:19:37 +0200 <EvanR> why is the argument to that function undefined smh
2023-09-06 20:19:38 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> Oh
2023-09-06 20:19:42 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> Yea, okay. cryptonite is doing that a lot.
2023-09-06 20:20:03 +0200 <EvanR> is that like a Proxy
2023-09-06 20:20:09 +0200 <mauke> should've been using a proxy
2023-09-06 20:20:09 +0200 <geekosaur> yes, it's an pold idiom, the size is determined by the type so there's no need to see the parameter
2023-09-06 20:20:13 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> I think, basically, yea
2023-09-06 20:20:16 +0200 <geekosaur> in modern code Proxy is preferred
2023-09-06 20:20:27 +0200 <geekosaur> *an old idiom
2023-09-06 20:20:42 +0200 <mauke> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.18.0.0/docs/Foreign-Storable.html#v:sizeOf
2023-09-06 20:25:12 +0200billchenchina(~billchenc@45.77.32.141)
2023-09-06 20:25:30 +0200 <haskellbridge> <j​ean-paul.> Thanks all
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2023-09-06 22:22:53 +0200sinbad(~sinbad@user/sinbad) ()
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2023-09-06 23:03:09 +0200 <erisco> Who is David Wagner? Sounds familiar and I stumbled on his blog https://thewagner.net/
2023-09-06 23:03:27 +0200azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023-09-06 23:04:54 +0200 <EvanR> Oh yeah David Wagner he's a clojure guy
2023-09-06 23:05:25 +0200 <erisco> weird because he talks about types in his blog :P
2023-09-06 23:05:41 +0200 <EvanR> clojure has many types
2023-09-06 23:05:47 +0200 <EvanR> of the java form
2023-09-06 23:06:01 +0200m_shiraeeshi(~shiraeesh@46.42.244.73)
2023-09-06 23:06:06 +0200 <EvanR> checkable by the compiler even
2023-09-06 23:06:12 +0200 <erisco> it is runtime checkde though yes?
2023-09-06 23:06:24 +0200coot(~coot@89-69-206-216.dynamic.chello.pl)
2023-09-06 23:06:39 +0200 <EvanR> the process of compiling your code is some kind of halfbaked runtime-like environment so I guess yes
2023-09-06 23:06:55 +0200 <EvanR> because lisp
2023-09-06 23:07:16 +0200 <EvanR> it will determine if your use of java is bad
2023-09-06 23:07:47 +0200stites(~stites@c-71-232-14-73.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2023-09-06 23:07:54 +0200shiraeeshi(~shiraeesh@46.42.244.73) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2023-09-06 23:08:02 +0200stites(~stites@c-71-232-14-73.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
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2023-09-06 23:08:51 +0200 <erisco> well what do I know, I never quite got lisp
2023-09-06 23:09:09 +0200hiyori(~hiyori@user/hiyori) (Quit: Client closed)
2023-09-06 23:10:22 +0200sinbad(~sinbad@user/sinbad) ()
2023-09-06 23:10:38 +0200 <EvanR> I didn't understand lisp until haskell
2023-09-06 23:11:14 +0200 <EvanR> but didn't learn haskell until after I learned lisp
2023-09-06 23:11:37 +0200dcoutts(~duncan@cpc69402-oxfd27-2-0-cust903.4-3.cable.virginm.net)
2023-09-06 23:13:48 +0200jmdaemon(~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2023-09-06 23:14:07 +0200jmdaemon(~jmdaemon@user/jmdaemon)
2023-09-06 23:15:52 +0200 <erisco> well I wanted to think him for this https://thewagner.net/blog/2021/02/25/building-container-images-with-nix/ because it is on point with what I wanted to know
2023-09-06 23:22:07 +0200sinbad_(~peter@178-164-252-121.pool.digikabel.hu)
2023-09-06 23:24:28 +0200sinbad_(~peter@178-164-252-121.pool.digikabel.hu) ()
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