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2023-01-28 03:55:34 +0000FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2023-01-28 03:56:59 +0000 <justsomeguy> Is pure (from Functor) the same as return (from Monad)?
2023-01-28 03:57:36 +0000 <justsomeguy> Someone told me monads are applicative functors.
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2023-01-28 04:00:03 +0000cheater_(~Username@user/cheater)
2023-01-28 04:00:27 +0000 <monochrom> pure is from Applicative, not Functor. But yes, same as Monad's return.
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2023-01-28 04:05:56 +0000ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.45.224.241)
2023-01-28 04:08:19 +0000 <int-e> `return` exists for historical reasons; the Applicative class was added after Monad and Functor were already well-established.
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2023-01-28 04:15:27 +0000 <dsal> I don't think anything requires `pure` and `return` to be the same, but if you find anything with a definition other than `return = pure` I'd be pretty suspicious.
2023-01-28 04:22:59 +0000 <davean> dsal: The laws sure do!
2023-01-28 04:23:13 +0000 <davean> dsal: If they aren't that explicitely and directly violates the class laws.
2023-01-28 04:24:46 +0000 <dsal> I meant from a "this won't compile" perspective. People *can* do dumb things.
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2023-01-28 04:25:21 +0000komikat(~user@14.139.82.6)
2023-01-28 04:26:17 +0000 <davean> Sure, but its more than suspicious - its directly wrong
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2023-01-28 08:14:29 +0000Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-152.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
2023-01-28 08:23:12 +0000 <Inst_> CPython is dead? Last update 2 years ago
2023-01-28 08:23:26 +0000Inst_Inst
2023-01-28 08:23:52 +0000 <Inst> I can't even get it to install on Windows, but that's my fault for using windows
2023-01-28 08:24:20 +0000mc47(~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47)
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2023-01-28 08:37:48 +0000 <energizer> last update 6 hours ago https://github.com/python/cpython
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2023-01-28 09:01:10 +0000 <davean> Maybe they mean https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cpython ?
2023-01-28 09:01:20 +0000danza(~francesco@151.57.95.137)
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2023-01-28 09:32:18 +0000aeroplane(~user@user/aeroplane)
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2023-01-28 09:50:34 +0000 <aeroplane> Hi everyone, I have a simple question. since haskell uses linked list internally, so if I do this "let x=(1,(2,3))" and then "y=snd x", then does haskell creates two copies of (2,3) in the memory or their is only one single entry refrenced at two places (x and y)
2023-01-28 09:51:32 +0000 <c_wraith> "uses linked lists internally"?
2023-01-28 09:52:22 +0000 <c_wraith> data types use exactly the representation they're declared with.
2023-01-28 09:52:38 +0000 <gnalzo> notice, (1,(2,3)) is not valid haskell. And is not a list. The list are denoted using [ ]
2023-01-28 09:52:47 +0000 <c_wraith> it's valid.
2023-01-28 09:52:52 +0000 <c_wraith> > (1, (2, 3))
2023-01-28 09:52:54 +0000 <lambdabot> (1,(2,3))
2023-01-28 09:53:02 +0000 <gnalzo> oh yes
2023-01-28 09:53:05 +0000 <c_wraith> But it isn't a list
2023-01-28 09:54:02 +0000foul_owl(~kerry@157.97.134.62)
2023-01-28 09:54:10 +0000 <aeroplane> I'm sorry i mixed haskell with lisp
2023-01-28 09:54:18 +0000 <gnalzo> well, anyway, [1, [2, 3]] is not valid. I'm mistaken.
2023-01-28 09:55:15 +0000 <c_wraith> anyway, ignoring all the red herrings... Immutability means free sharing. So in let x = (1,(2,3)); y = snd x in ... well, after evaluation, y will be the same pointer as the second entry in x
2023-01-28 09:57:05 +0000 <c_wraith> (before it's evaluated, it'll be a thunk holding on to a function and its arguments)
2023-01-28 09:58:17 +0000 <aeroplane> c_wraith: I am asking this question because, i am trying to create a tree data structure in haskell, so to insert a value into a tree you have to create a new tree entirely.
2023-01-28 09:58:27 +0000 <c_wraith> sharing.
2023-01-28 09:58:46 +0000 <aeroplane> sO DOES HASKELL CREATES A NEW TREE OR SHARE THE VALUES INTERNALLY
2023-01-28 09:58:53 +0000 <c_wraith> Any subtree that is referred to by both isn't copied.
2023-01-28 09:59:40 +0000 <c_wraith> It's literally syntactic. If you don't call a constructor, you aren't creating new elements.
2023-01-28 10:00:51 +0000 <[exa]> aeroplane: it may not even store 2 copies of the whole thing tbh, since it's lazy it might just remember something like "snd (1,(2,3)) belongs here"
2023-01-28 10:01:24 +0000 <[exa]> aeroplane: anyway in the end if you really read the values of (2,3) and unless something crazy happens, it's usually going to share the memory location
2023-01-28 10:02:35 +0000 <[exa]> (and the case with actual lists as in `tail (1:(2:(3:[])))` aka `tail [1,2,3]` should behave pretty much the same, [2,3] will be shared
2023-01-28 10:02:38 +0000 <[exa]> )
2023-01-28 10:02:41 +0000 <Inst> ummm, yeah, I mean the hackage package
2023-01-28 10:02:47 +0000 <c_wraith> I can't think of any case where syntactic sharing doesn't imply runtime sharing.
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2023-01-28 10:03:22 +0000 <[exa]> c_wraith: inliner is free to duplicate the values in certain cases when it thinks it doesn't duplicate too much work
2023-01-28 10:03:43 +0000 <c_wraith> mm. right, for top-level definitions.
2023-01-28 10:03:58 +0000 <[exa]> yeah in that case I'd say it's super rare.
2023-01-28 10:03:59 +0000 <c_wraith> including things that get floated to the top level
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2023-01-28 10:05:43 +0000 <c_wraith> anyway, that's not going to apply to any value that depends on a function argument.
2023-01-28 10:09:50 +0000themc47(~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47) (Remote host closed the connection)
2023-01-28 10:12:43 +0000 <[exa]> Inst: what's broken btw? (any error log?)
2023-01-28 10:13:14 +0000 <aeroplane> [exa]: thanks, that's neat, "let y=snd x" will not be evaluated, and if it needS to, then the refrence to (2,3) will be shared
2023-01-28 10:13:18 +0000 <aeroplane> am i correct
2023-01-28 10:13:20 +0000 <Inst> PS C:\Users\Liam> cabal install cpython
2023-01-28 10:13:20 +0000 <Inst> Resolving dependencies...
2023-01-28 10:13:20 +0000 <Inst> Error: cabal-3.8.1.0.exe: Could not resolve dependencies:
2023-01-28 10:13:20 +0000 <Inst> [__0] trying: cpython-3.5.1 (user goal)
2023-01-28 10:13:20 +0000 <Inst> [__1] rejecting: cpython:-usepython38 (conflict: pkg-config package
2023-01-28 10:13:21 +0000 <Inst> python3-any, not found in the pkg-config database)
2023-01-28 10:13:25 +0000 <Inst> [__1] rejecting: cpython:+usepython38 (conflict: pkg-config package
2023-01-28 10:13:27 +0000 <Inst> python-3.8-any, not found in the pkg-config database)
2023-01-28 10:13:28 +0000 <Inst> [__1] fail (backjumping, conflict set: cpython, cpython:usepython38)
2023-01-28 10:13:31 +0000 <Inst> After searching the rest of the dependency tree exhaustively, these were the
2023-01-28 10:13:33 +0000 <Inst> goals I've had most trouble fulfilling: cpython, cpython:usepython38
2023-01-28 10:13:35 +0000 <Inst> whoops, should have used pastebin
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2023-01-28 10:29:21 +0000 <[exa]> aeroplane: yes
2023-01-28 10:30:02 +0000 <[exa]> Inst: yeah that looks like you need a working pkg-config with the correct version of python (I'd guess 3.5 while you have 3.8)
2023-01-28 10:30:28 +0000 <[exa]> or maybe it doesn't have pkg-config at all which is, well, windows thing
2023-01-28 10:30:35 +0000 <Inst> it wants 3.8, i can't get pkg-config working on windows
2023-01-28 10:30:45 +0000 <[exa]> can you run in WSL?
2023-01-28 10:30:52 +0000 <Inst> i don't have it installed on WSL
2023-01-28 10:31:00 +0000tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2023-01-28 10:31:45 +0000 <[exa]> tbh I have no idea how the package would be able to sanely configure self in the default windows mess, even cabal working there is more of a small miracle
2023-01-28 10:31:48 +0000cheater_(~Username@user/cheater)
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2023-01-28 10:32:49 +0000 <[exa]> but maybe with the pkg-config in place it might just work
2023-01-28 10:32:56 +0000 <[exa]> (can you check that you can run pkg-config yoursel?)
2023-01-28 10:33:31 +0000 <[exa]> (something like: pkg-config python3 --cflags or maybe pkg-config --list-all)
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2023-01-28 10:42:56 +0000 <aeroplane> I have one other beginner question, if I have an immutable variable "tree" and I have to update it multiple times, the do I have to declare new variables all the time, since haskell complains when i redclare "tree" variable. Below is Binary Search Tree code, I need to update variable tree at line 27 multiple times, I do not know how to do that? Please help, thanks.
2023-01-28 10:42:58 +0000 <aeroplane> http://ix.io/4mpM/haskell
2023-01-28 10:45:25 +0000 <aeroplane> please bear that the code is not clean
2023-01-28 10:48:16 +0000 <danza> of course. Because of immutability, you cannot reassign a variable
2023-01-28 10:48:50 +0000 <danza> in fact, more that a variable, we could call the constants ^^;
2023-01-28 10:49:05 +0000 <gnalzo> you can not declare tree at the top level.
2023-01-28 10:49:29 +0000 <danza> gnalzo, why not?
2023-01-28 10:49:56 +0000 <gnalzo> just pass Empty to the function ins in main.
2023-01-28 10:50:07 +0000 <danza> oh yes, that's a better idea
2023-01-28 10:50:11 +0000 <aeroplane> i need to update tree multiple times, how to do it
2023-01-28 10:51:03 +0000 <gnalzo> danza: I rephrase, you can of course, but it's not the best pratice imho.
2023-01-28 10:52:03 +0000 <gnalzo> aeroplane: each function that update a Tree, can get a Tree as parameter and return a modified Tree.
2023-01-28 10:52:44 +0000 <danza> and you can collect multiple updates (separated by $ or .) and apply them one after the other
2023-01-28 10:53:25 +0000 <gnalzo> aeroplane: this is what you already do.
2023-01-28 10:54:36 +0000 <aeroplane> gnalzo: then i need to store that value somewhere
2023-01-28 10:54:51 +0000 <aeroplane> i cannot reassign it to tree variable
2023-01-28 10:55:02 +0000 <aeroplane> line 31
2023-01-28 10:56:08 +0000 <tomsmeding> let tree1 = stuff tree ; tree2 = stuff2 tree1 ; ...
2023-01-28 10:56:14 +0000 <gnalzo> yes you cannot for variable at toplevel. But you can for local variable defined with let (or where), and even for function parameters.
2023-01-28 10:56:29 +0000cheater_(~Username@user/cheater)
2023-01-28 10:56:46 +0000 <danza> and yeah, to get used with the concept, adding numbers to the end is probably the easiest
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2023-01-28 10:59:52 +0000 <aeroplane> gnalzo: it complaines when i add "tree1=ins 6 tree1" after line 31
2023-01-28 11:00:13 +0000 <aeroplane> parse error on input ‘=’
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2023-01-28 11:01:41 +0000 <aeroplane> tomsmeding: yeah that is exactly the problem that i am asking
2023-01-28 11:02:14 +0000 <aeroplane> do i have redclare variable everytime when i update
2023-01-28 11:03:26 +0000 <darkling> You have to create a new variable for each new value.
2023-01-28 11:04:02 +0000 <darkling> So the code above with "tree1=ins 6 tree1" is going to fail because you're trying to redefine tree1 -- it should be "tree2 = ins 6 tree1"
2023-01-28 11:05:02 +0000shriekingnoise_(~shrieking@186.137.175.87)
2023-01-28 11:07:09 +0000 <gnalzo> aeroplane: I said, it's possible but not this way. You can in recursive function, because let define a new variable after each call, despite they have the same name.
2023-01-28 11:07:20 +0000 <aeroplane> darkling: that means that every time I have to make modifications to the tree, then I have to declare a new variable to store the updated tree
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2023-01-28 11:07:46 +0000shriekingnoise(~shrieking@186.137.175.87) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2023-01-28 11:16:33 +0000 <Lears> @pl \tree0 -> let tree1 = f tree0; tree2 = g tree1; tree3 = h tree2 in i tree3
2023-01-28 11:16:34 +0000 <lambdabot> i . fix . const . h . fix . const . g . fix . const . f
2023-01-28 11:16:58 +0000 <Lears> Wow. Technically correct, but not exactly ideal.
2023-01-28 11:17:03 +0000 <Lears> @check \x -> (fix . const) x == x
2023-01-28 11:17:05 +0000 <lambdabot> +++ OK, passed 100 tests.
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2023-01-28 12:00:41 +0000 <mauke> @check \x -> length (nub x) == 1
2023-01-28 12:00:42 +0000 <lambdabot> error:
2023-01-28 12:00:43 +0000 <lambdabot> Ambiguous occurrence ‘length’ It could refer to either ‘Data.List.length’, i...
2023-01-28 12:01:01 +0000 <mauke> @check \x -> Data.List.length (nub x) <= 1
2023-01-28 12:01:03 +0000 <lambdabot> error:
2023-01-28 12:01:03 +0000 <lambdabot> Ambiguous occurrence ‘nub’ It could refer to either ‘Data.List.nub’, importe...
2023-01-28 12:01:24 +0000 <mauke> @check \x -> Data.List.length (Data.List.nub x) <= 1
2023-01-28 12:01:26 +0000 <lambdabot> +++ OK, passed 100 tests.
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2023-01-28 12:19:41 +0000 <tomsmeding> aeroplane: yes
2023-01-28 12:20:03 +0000 <tomsmeding> Though what you could do is wrap all the things you want to do to the tree in functions, say stuff1, stuff2, ..., stuff32
2023-01-28 12:20:22 +0000 <tomsmeding> Then the final tree is stuff32 . stuff31 . ... . stuff1 $ tree
2023-01-28 12:20:50 +0000 <tomsmeding> Depending on how those stuff functions look, you might not even need to do the wrapping, you can just write them inline
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2023-01-28 12:51:24 +0000 <komikat> j
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2023-01-28 13:14:41 +0000[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2023-01-28 13:16:08 +0000 <unit73e> komikat, k. I win.
2023-01-28 13:16:32 +0000 <unit73e> also hello
2023-01-28 13:16:53 +0000Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus)
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2023-01-28 13:37:33 +0000 <unit73e> is the maintainer and license haddock still necessary in modules? because cabal already tells that.
2023-01-28 13:39:41 +0000 <unit73e> is there a way to generate that part?
2023-01-28 13:51:27 +0000 <Hecate> unit73e: cabal check bothers you with this?
2023-01-28 13:52:54 +0000 <unit73e> Hecate, nah and neither does writting it down manually, just a curiosity
2023-01-28 13:53:05 +0000troydm(~troydm@user/troydm)
2023-01-28 13:54:03 +0000 <Hecate> unit73e: Personally, I copy one module to create another, so the haddock metadata are written once :P
2023-01-28 13:54:11 +0000 <Hecate> but I don't think it matters that much?
2023-01-28 13:54:38 +0000 <Hecate> unit73e: but you're right, Haddock could infer those metadata
2023-01-28 13:55:00 +0000 <unit73e> well if there's nothing, there's nothing I guess. not much of a problem imo
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2023-01-28 17:57:55 +0000 <zebrag[m]> https://pure.strath.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/7096708/syntaxforfree.pdf, the 3rd equality, at the bottom of p. 4? Atkey is giving an interpretation of ∀α.τ...
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2023-01-28 17:59:05 +0000 <zebrag[m]> I guess it is the interpretation of the type when the type variable ranges over all sets, so it's a variable set
2023-01-28 17:59:28 +0000 <zebrag[m]> but then he is restricting that with a condition
2023-01-28 17:59:47 +0000 <zebrag[m]> and I can't make sense of that condition
2023-01-28 18:01:33 +0000oldfashionedcowintel
2023-01-28 18:01:43 +0000inteloldfashionedcow
2023-01-28 18:02:25 +0000 <zebrag[m]> This is the condition: ∀W, A1, A2, R : KRel(W, A1, A2), w : W. R[|τ|]W (∆γW [α ↦ R]) w (x A1) (x A2)
2023-01-28 18:03:07 +0000 <zebrag[m]> Atkey's explanations are "These clauses are mostly straightforward"
2023-01-28 18:04:00 +0000beteigeuze(~Thunderbi@bl14-81-220.dsl.telepac.pt)
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2023-01-28 18:09:01 +0000wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot)
2023-01-28 18:12:29 +0000 <smol-hors> can someone link me to suggested up-to-date reading on the Haskell FFI?
2023-01-28 18:13:47 +0000 <sclv> smol-hors: https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/ffi.html
2023-01-28 18:13:57 +0000 <smol-hors> thank you
2023-01-28 18:15:00 +0000 <mauke> https://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/haskell2010/haskellch8.html#x15-1490008
2023-01-28 18:15:37 +0000 <smol-hors> thx
2023-01-28 18:19:15 +0000 <monochrom> zebrag[m]: You would notice that the condition is the parametricity condition, e.g., the last equation.
2023-01-28 18:20:11 +0000eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:513f:f9f8:1fe4:d246)
2023-01-28 18:20:48 +0000 <zebrag[m]> I would? let's see
2023-01-28 18:22:54 +0000potash(~foghorn@user/foghorn)
2023-01-28 18:24:14 +0000 <zebrag[m]> monochrom thanks a lot, I'm going to work on that...
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2023-01-28 19:46:46 +0000 <stefan-_> is there a typeclass which is a monoid and supports multiplication with a scalar?
2023-01-28 19:48:33 +0000 <geekosaur> do you count `mtimes`/`stimes`?
2023-01-28 19:48:39 +0000 <Rembane> stefan-_: Not really, but Product could perhaps help you. What do you want to do?
2023-01-28 19:49:48 +0000 <geekosaur> otherwise this sounds to me like you want one of the matrix packages, maybe
2023-01-28 19:51:22 +0000 <stefan-_> I have a record which holds three different `cost` integer fields, this cost record has a zero, can be summed and multiplied with a scalar
2023-01-28 19:52:14 +0000 <stefan-_> (day 19 of aoc)
2023-01-28 19:54:10 +0000 <c_wraith> that basically sounds like stimes or mitmes along with replicate.
2023-01-28 19:54:32 +0000 <c_wraith> err. concat/sconcat
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2023-01-28 19:58:58 +0000 <c_wraith> oh. which is just stimes/mtimes
2023-01-28 20:02:09 +0000 <stefan-_> c_wraith, stimes sounds good, thanks!
2023-01-28 20:02:39 +0000 <c_wraith> It looks like it's part of the class so that you can provide a more efficient implementation if you desire. and this is a case where you might!
2023-01-28 20:03:27 +0000 <EvanR> multiplication by a scalar is vector language, you just want repeated monoiding/semigrouping
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2023-01-28 20:05:19 +0000 <stefan-_> https://gist.github.com/dozed/f12791c9ed15fa6e76b50beffd8ad77c
2023-01-28 20:05:23 +0000 <stefan-_> this is what I have currently
2023-01-28 20:06:09 +0000 <int-e> . o O ( Ah, day 19, the day where I hardcoded everything. )
2023-01-28 20:06:41 +0000 <stefan-_> hm, it should probably possible to even automatically derive Semigroup/Monoid
2023-01-28 20:07:00 +0000 <stefan-_> based on the underlying Int
2023-01-28 20:07:39 +0000 <int-e> there's a monoid for Num a => Sum a, Sum being a newtype
2023-01-28 20:10:12 +0000 <int-e> And the Semigroup instance does `stimes n (Sum a) = Sum (fromIntegral n * a)` so it should be fine for that optimization. Though I'm not sure whether you actually need it.
2023-01-28 20:10:28 +0000Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
2023-01-28 20:13:15 +0000 <int-e> "hardcoded everything" -- https://paste.tomsmeding.com/HMK3FvTI (very mild spoiler, it's just the left-hand side of my main solving function)
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2023-01-28 23:22:22 +0000dequbed(~dequbed@banana-new.kilobyte22.de) (Quit: bye!)
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2023-01-28 23:43:50 +0000unit73e(~emanuel@2001:818:e8dd:7c00:656:e5ff:fe72:9d36)
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2023-01-28 23:56:32 +0000fut(~futar@129.234.0.191)
2023-01-28 23:57:00 +0000fut(~futar@129.234.0.191) ()