2022/12/31

2022-12-31 00:00:23 +0100geekosaur[m]feels old
2022-12-31 00:00:43 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> and having remote builders with more storage would be helpful if you were into that sort of thing lol
2022-12-31 00:01:37 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> geekosaur[m]: i have computers with 20GB spinning rust hard drives lol
2022-12-31 00:01:55 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> booted one up a while ago it still had i686 arch on it heh
2022-12-31 00:02:29 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> I still remember getting our first 1GB drive
2022-12-31 00:02:37 +0100coot(~coot@213.134.171.3) (Quit: coot)
2022-12-31 00:02:38 +0100 <davean> http://www.toms.net/rb/
2022-12-31 00:02:45 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> have a PII or PIII laptop but it's got some problems :(
2022-12-31 00:03:00 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> and getting a ridic large 80MB HD for my home machine
2022-12-31 00:03:03 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> i still have my first 2GB usb drive
2022-12-31 00:03:38 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> i have a 2GB CF(II?) drive hahaha
2022-12-31 00:05:14 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> https://periodictable.com/Samples/CompactFlashHardDrive/s13.JPG lol
2022-12-31 00:05:23 +0100torro_64(~torben@146.70.117.187)
2022-12-31 00:06:50 +0100emmanuelux(~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-12-31 00:06:53 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> i used to have a 4GB hitachi like that but it got stolen with my canon 300D i think :(
2022-12-31 00:07:05 +0100emmanuelux(~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux)
2022-12-31 00:08:07 +0100 <ggVGc> DigitalKiwi: running a server with specialised needs and running an everyday computer system is fairly different though?
2022-12-31 00:08:19 +0100torro_64(~torben@146.70.117.187) ()
2022-12-31 00:08:43 +0100 <davean> ggVGc: I mean the every day computer generally has more software, but its just a difference of scale not type generally.
2022-12-31 00:09:09 +0100 <ggVGc> not sure how that relates to nix taking a lot of system space?
2022-12-31 00:09:35 +0100 <davean> nix will take up more on most everyday computers, but he's saying about how it uses disk space in general.
2022-12-31 00:09:37 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> most every day computers probably have more storage available than a $6 droplet though
2022-12-31 00:09:51 +0100 <davean> Basicly, nix doesn't cause disk space issues.
2022-12-31 00:09:55 +0100 <davean> no more than any distro does
2022-12-31 00:10:09 +0100 <davean> (as long as you run gc)
2022-12-31 00:10:24 +0100random-jellyfish(~random-je@user/random-jellyfish)
2022-12-31 00:10:43 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> if you never nix-collect-garbage nix would easily use all of the space eventually but if you didn't it'd use not much more than any os
2022-12-31 00:11:26 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> s/didn't/did/
2022-12-31 00:11:30 +0100 <davean> if you use gc every time you change packages, it would use very close to the same as most distros. less than some, more than others.
2022-12-31 00:11:52 +0100 <ggVGc> how large are your /nix dirs right now?
2022-12-31 00:12:04 +0100 <davean> 65.4G for my desktop
2022-12-31 00:12:08 +0100albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-12-31 00:12:11 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> https://twitter.com/ArchKiwi/ recovering arch user lol
2022-12-31 00:12:12 +0100 <davean> I ahven't gced in a while though
2022-12-31 00:12:29 +0100 <ggVGc> so that falls in the range of 50-100gb like I said
2022-12-31 00:12:47 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> that's not necessarily a good comparison, unless you also compare to the same thing installed from (non-nixos) distro packages
2022-12-31 00:13:30 +0100 <davean> well, again, I haven't GCed in a while
2022-12-31 00:13:41 +0100 <davean> I've got like ... everything installed.
2022-12-31 00:13:43 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> [nixos@MSI-16Q4:~]$ du -sh /nix/
2022-12-31 00:13:43 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> 26G /nix/
2022-12-31 00:14:03 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> i've never nix-collect-garbage in this vm though
2022-12-31 00:14:05 +0100 <davean> I've got 4 or 5 ghc versions, ghcjs, several full machine learning envs ...
2022-12-31 00:15:58 +0100 <davean> 30.1G after a gc it looks like, though I'm sure I have a lot of trash roots laying around.
2022-12-31 00:18:16 +0100albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8)
2022-12-31 00:18:43 +0100 <davean> though yah, for a desktop machine I think 50GiB lets you think about it less.
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2022-12-31 00:22:17 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3bmiz61sptuk2ys/2022-12-30%2017.08.47.jpg?dl=0 geekosaur[m] feel older or younger yet
2022-12-31 00:23:36 +0100 <unit73e> is ExceptT the decent way to handle errors nowadays?
2022-12-31 00:23:41 +0100 <unit73e> or there's yet another?
2022-12-31 00:23:42 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> doesn't change the fact that I still remember tiny HDDs for PC-class (not even AT!) machines
2022-12-31 00:24:14 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> unit73e, `ExceptT` should be it
2022-12-31 00:24:26 +0100 <unit73e> geekosaur[m], thanks
2022-12-31 00:24:34 +0100 <unit73e> Speaking of HDD
2022-12-31 00:24:37 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> oh i do too lol i might even have the platters for a maybe 10-36MB drive that are as big as vinyl records
2022-12-31 00:25:08 +0100 <unit73e> my first computer was an am386 dx4 with 40MHz and I believe a chunky 40MB HDD
2022-12-31 00:25:15 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> from a system/36 iirc
2022-12-31 00:25:35 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> like at my first real job 😀
2022-12-31 00:25:37 +0100 <unit73e> much later I found out it was one the first AMD CPUs, that was not intel
2022-12-31 00:25:44 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> or maybe a system/32
2022-12-31 00:25:49 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> i'm not sure anymore
2022-12-31 00:26:08 +0100 <unit73e> it had a turbo button
2022-12-31 00:26:25 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> the first computer i build was a pII 266 iirc
2022-12-31 00:26:36 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> 233?
2022-12-31 00:26:40 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> MHz
2022-12-31 00:26:40 +0100hgolden(~hgolden@cpe-172-251-233-141.socal.res.rr.com)
2022-12-31 00:27:07 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> hahaha turbo button
2022-12-31 00:27:16 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> 486, 20MHz, 2nd CPU socket that I didn't populate until 1997ish
2022-12-31 00:27:32 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> wait, was it 20MHz? don't recall any more
2022-12-31 00:28:28 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80_Model_100
2022-12-31 00:28:29 +0100 <unit73e> could be 20MHz, the first i486 did have 20MHz
2022-12-31 00:28:32 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> first computer i wrote a program for
2022-12-31 00:29:01 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> still have it in the basement
2022-12-31 00:29:25 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> CPU 2.4 MHz Intel 80C85
2022-12-31 00:29:26 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> had one of those too BITD
2022-12-31 00:29:53 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> did my time logging for my second employer on it
2022-12-31 00:30:14 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> my dad worked for radio shack like 30-40(+) years ago lol
2022-12-31 00:30:25 +0100 <unit73e> I also had a zx spectrum 48k and later 128k but are those even computers? I guess they did have basic
2022-12-31 00:30:38 +0100 <unit73e> funny 5min loading machines
2022-12-31 00:30:42 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> very small computers, but computers
2022-12-31 00:30:43 +0100 <unit73e> only to fail with a red screen
2022-12-31 00:30:51 +0100 <juri_> is there a sane way to test whether two passed in types of the same typeclass are the same type, and use Eq against them if they are?
2022-12-31 00:30:59 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> anyone else remember the pocket computer?
2022-12-31 00:31:13 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> juri_, no
2022-12-31 00:31:28 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> i have a lot of pocket computers but they're called phones these days
2022-12-31 00:31:31 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> unless the typeclass itself permits it
2022-12-31 00:31:56 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> 1 32-character line display
2022-12-31 00:32:16 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> Sharp sold it, eventually Radio Shack started selling a rebranded one
2022-12-31 00:32:23 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocket_computer
2022-12-31 00:32:48 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> i have seen those never had one
2022-12-31 00:32:58 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> juri_, this may include adding `Typeable` to constraints and using `TypeRep`
2022-12-31 00:33:14 +0100 <juri_> DigitalKiwi: i had one of those.
2022-12-31 00:33:49 +0100 <unit73e> I bet it's more of an american thing, those pocket computers
2022-12-31 00:33:54 +0100 <unit73e> radioshack
2022-12-31 00:34:14 +0100 <unit73e> because I never heard of those
2022-12-31 00:34:50 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> i still have my old TI-83 Plus the other day it didn't turn on i about had a heart attack
2022-12-31 00:35:13 +0100 <unit73e> but tbf I never heard of all the magical japanese computers either that sometimes showed up in game magazines with amazing graphics until much later
2022-12-31 00:36:04 +0100 <juri_> geekosaur[m]: thanks, that looks useful.
2022-12-31 00:36:36 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> I list my HP48 during my last move ☹️
2022-12-31 00:36:43 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> *lost
2022-12-31 00:37:06 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> otoh I have an HP41 emulator as the calculator on my phone
2022-12-31 00:37:27 +0100 <juri_> I've lost everything twice. i don't think i really appreciated what i haad.
2022-12-31 00:37:36 +0100finsternis(~X@23.226.237.192)
2022-12-31 00:37:38 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> i have ghci in nix-on-droid on my phone lol
2022-12-31 00:39:26 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> my boss in my 2nd job had a cellphone. it was the size of a small briefcase
2022-12-31 00:40:02 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> my dad used to have one of those bag phones
2022-12-31 00:40:18 +0100 <unit73e> did those launch nuclear bombs? because it sure looked like it
2022-12-31 00:40:55 +0100 <unit73e> nix-on-droid would have been useful when I was learning haskell
2022-12-31 00:41:06 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> couldn't tell you if i knew ;)
2022-12-31 00:41:49 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> it's probably more useful if you know haskell even ;D
2022-12-31 00:41:53 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> some to think of it, even "small briefcase" was misleading because it was something like half heatsink
2022-12-31 00:42:27 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> yeah that were a big block of metal and battery lol
2022-12-31 00:42:37 +0100 <geekosaur[m]> s/some/come/
2022-12-31 00:45:16 +0100 <unit73e> I remember seeing one of those in a car and I being a stupid kid when everyone was amazed "just a phone bruh, what's so amazing?"
2022-12-31 00:45:34 +0100 <unit73e> but I guess I was right, it really was just a phone
2022-12-31 00:46:09 +0100 <unit73e> with a huge battery and antenna
2022-12-31 00:50:22 +0100 <darkling> I've still got my dad's HP41CV, with all the trimmings.
2022-12-31 00:50:31 +0100 <darkling> Keyboard needs a new membrane, though. :(
2022-12-31 00:51:00 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> https://youtu.be/694TX2lQ7Uo LMAO
2022-12-31 00:53:43 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> https://radioshackcatalogs.com/flipbook/1989_radioshack_catalog.html page 4
2022-12-31 00:56:41 +0100lottaquestions(~nick@2607:fa49:503e:7100:a37:6c2e:5bc7:b05c)
2022-12-31 01:00:31 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> https://www.inflationtool.com/us-dollar/1989-to-present-value?amount=999&year2=2022&frequency=yearly $999 in 1989
2022-12-31 01:00:33 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> $2,413.63 in 2022
2022-12-31 01:00:36 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> oof
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2022-12-31 01:17:58 +0100 <unit73e> DigitalKiwi, maybe that's going to be the price of an RTX 4090ti
2022-12-31 01:18:14 +0100 <unit73e> or near that
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2022-12-31 02:14:36 +0100iqubic(~avi@2601:601:1100:edd0:db26:b6ac:b2fb:635)
2022-12-31 02:16:46 +0100 <iqubic> jle``: Are you around? I was wondering if I could ask you a question about your mutable library. I know that you managed to make it work for lists. Does that mean I can have mutable version of an infinite list, or not?
2022-12-31 02:17:35 +0100 <iqubic> For those wondering, I'm asking about this:
2022-12-31 02:17:39 +0100 <iqubic> @hackage mutable
2022-12-31 02:17:39 +0100 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mutable
2022-12-31 02:19:11 +0100 <iqubic> On a related note, can I use ST as the base monad in a Monad Transformer stack to get mutable effects?
2022-12-31 02:22:11 +0100wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot)
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2022-12-31 02:34:11 +0100 <unit73e> mutable in haskell? what kind of blasphemy is this? call the witch hunters
2022-12-31 02:34:19 +0100tremon(~tremon@83-85-213-108.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: getting boxed in)
2022-12-31 02:39:29 +0100 <c_wraith> iqubic: sure ST is a fine base monad.
2022-12-31 02:39:52 +0100 <c_wraith> well, ST s
2022-12-31 02:42:27 +0100 <iqubic> Yeah, I understand that it would be ST s.
2022-12-31 02:44:03 +0100 <iqubic> I mainly want to use ST s as the base layer so that I can do mutable operations (with jle's library) with stateful operations
2022-12-31 02:49:09 +0100 <jackdk> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mutable-0.2.2.0/docs/Data-Mutable.html: "An instance of Mutable s a means that a can be stored a mutable reference in a PrimMonad m" -- is `ST s` an instance of `PrimMonad`?
2022-12-31 02:50:57 +0100 <iqubic> Yes
2022-12-31 02:51:49 +0100 <jackdk> Looks like that is your answer then
2022-12-31 02:52:11 +0100 <iqubic> But I need to know if the Mutable library is strict or not, because I'd like to work with inifinite lists.
2022-12-31 02:52:20 +0100 <jackdk> And I imagine you can stack whatever transformers you care about on top.
2022-12-31 02:52:47 +0100 <iqubic> I will be doing that.
2022-12-31 02:53:46 +0100 <jackdk> Hm, what if you wrote a program that attempted to thaw an infinite list and checked whether or not it worked?
2022-12-31 02:54:36 +0100 <iqubic> I'll try that.
2022-12-31 02:56:29 +0100 <iqubic> I'm gonna go get some food now. Be back later
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2022-12-31 05:20:32 +0100Batzy(~quassel@user/batzy)
2022-12-31 05:20:40 +0100morb(~morb@pool-72-80-94-112.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2022-12-31 05:20:52 +0100Batzy(~quassel@user/batzy) (Client Quit)
2022-12-31 05:21:15 +0100Batzy(~quassel@user/batzy)
2022-12-31 05:30:09 +0100azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
2022-12-31 05:34:08 +0100freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.159)
2022-12-31 05:36:38 +0100DigitalKiwiwonders if they'll be back before or after they solve the halting problem
2022-12-31 05:38:27 +0100freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.159) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-12-31 05:38:27 +0100gentauro(~gentauro@user/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-12-31 05:43:08 +0100 <iqubic> Oh, I've been back for a while. I just didn't annouce my presence
2022-12-31 05:44:01 +0100gentauro(~gentauro@user/gentauro)
2022-12-31 05:45:09 +0100 <DigitalKiwi> lazy evaluation eh
2022-12-31 05:45:14 +0100motherfsck(~motherfsc@user/motherfsck) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2022-12-31 05:49:15 +0100 <iqubic> Yes
2022-12-31 05:49:22 +0100 <iqubic> I'm a lazy lass
2022-12-31 05:53:44 +0100waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-12-31 06:01:00 +0100freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.159)
2022-12-31 06:02:04 +0100 <iqubic> Or at least I think I'm a lass. I haven't fully evaluated my gender yet, because I'm lazy.
2022-12-31 06:03:11 +0100mizlan(~mizlan@c-67-169-7-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-12-31 06:03:19 +0100TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2022-12-31 06:05:41 +0100TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker)
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2022-12-31 06:10:13 +0100mizlan(~mizlan@c-67-169-7-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2022-12-31 06:10:38 +0100 <iqubic> jackdk: Turns out I can't actually test if the Mutable library is strict or not, because of this compilation error: https://dpaste.com/AHU4HGKLF
2022-12-31 06:11:02 +0100 <iqubic> I think there might have been an update to Vector that has broken Mutable
2022-12-31 06:11:42 +0100Lumia(~Lumia@user/Lumia)
2022-12-31 06:14:30 +0100v0id_ptr(~adrift@user/ptr-frac7al/x-0038398)
2022-12-31 06:15:05 +0100 <dsal> Annoyed that people post blog posts trying to teach haskell, but don't allow comments. Some of this stuff is just overly complicated.
2022-12-31 06:15:41 +0100 <iqubic> That's so annoying
2022-12-31 06:18:31 +0100morb(~morb@pool-72-80-94-112.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-12-31 06:29:09 +0100 <iqubic> Well, I just submitted a github issue for jle``'s mutable library
2022-12-31 06:29:22 +0100 <iqubic> It seems that changes to Vinyl have broken it.
2022-12-31 06:29:26 +0100ec_(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-12-31 06:29:55 +0100 <iqubic> jle``: You don't have to fix this anytime soon, but it would be nice to get it fixed at some point.
2022-12-31 06:30:17 +0100ec_(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2022-12-31 06:31:31 +0100 <mauke[m]> nice spark
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2022-12-31 07:15:04 +0100 <jackdk> And/or put up metadata revisions such that the broken build plans are excluded.
2022-12-31 07:15:12 +0100talismanick(~talismani@76.133.152.122)
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2022-12-31 07:24:43 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2022-12-31 07:25:59 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-12-31 07:28:28 +0100 <iqubic> jackdk: What do you mean by that?
2022-12-31 07:29:15 +0100 <iqubic> https://github.com/mstksg/mutable/issues/4
2022-12-31 07:29:25 +0100 <iqubic> That's the thing I opened.
2022-12-31 07:29:44 +0100 <iqubic> I have no clue how to fix these issues, but I want to present the issues
2022-12-31 07:29:58 +0100 <jackdk> https://github.com/haskell-infra/hackage-trustees/blob/master/revisions-information.md#hackage-met…
2022-12-31 07:30:49 +0100 <jackdk> The package maintainer and/or a hackage trustee (if the maintainer is unavailable or unresponsive, and has not opted out) should revise the bounds on released versions of mutable to exclude the versions of vinyl that break
2022-12-31 07:31:10 +0100 <iqubic> That makes sense.
2022-12-31 07:31:47 +0100 <jackdk> mutable declares a dependency on vinyl with no bounds at all, which I don't think is good practice because it leads to exactly this scenario
2022-12-31 07:32:22 +0100 <iqubic> jle`` was around a bit during Advent of Code, and is currently logged into this IRC channel. I guess they might be asleep right now, so I'm not too concerned.
2022-12-31 07:33:26 +0100 <iqubic> jackdk: It also doesn't provide bounds on Template-Haskell, Transformers, or Vector. I'm not sure how often those APIs change
2022-12-31 07:35:01 +0100 <iqubic> And in the wise words of Jle himself, I'm gonna sleep too
2022-12-31 07:35:06 +0100 <iqubic> @quote zzz
2022-12-31 07:35:06 +0100 <lambdabot> sebazzz says: <sebazzz> vos no te diste cuenta, pero cuando estas en pedo, y si yo estoy, te saco del alcanse todo objeto contundente
2022-12-31 07:35:14 +0100 <iqubic> @quote getSum
2022-12-31 07:35:14 +0100 <lambdabot> jle` says: let sleep = pure "zzz" in getSum sleep
2022-12-31 07:35:25 +0100 <iqubic> That's the one I was looking for.
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2022-12-31 12:51:32 +0100 <juri_> geekosaur[m]: thanks again, your help last night got me where i needed to be.
2022-12-31 12:51:35 +0100Sauvin(~sauvin@user/Sauvin)
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2022-12-31 13:04:19 +0100 <juri_> geekosaur[m]: i was looking for "| typeOf line1 == typeOf line2 && line1 == fromJust (cast line2) = (1, mempty)" , fwiw.
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2022-12-31 14:08:13 +0100jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
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2022-12-31 14:37:40 +0100hyperbolic-dg(~quassel@i577AA562.versanet.de)
2022-12-31 14:43:21 +0100 <mauke[m]> more like | cast line2 == Just line 1 = (1, mempty)
2022-12-31 14:43:37 +0100 <mauke[m]> * more like | cast line2 == Just line1 = (1, mempty)
2022-12-31 14:45:23 +0100freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.159) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-12-31 14:55:36 +0100 <mauke[m]> in fact, that's just PHP
2022-12-31 14:56:20 +0100 <mauke[m]> `(===) :: (Typeable a, Typeable b, Eq b) => a -> b -> Bool; a === b = cast a == Just b`
2022-12-31 14:56:34 +0100 <mauke[m]> and then | line1 === line 2 = ...
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2022-12-31 15:25:31 +0100 <isekaijin> Why do we need a Representable type class in Haskell? In math (at least in algebraic topology and algebraic geometry), representable functors provide an indirect way to construct spaces, especially classifying spaces. Can representable functors in Haskell also be used to indirectly construct types?
2022-12-31 15:25:45 +0100ddellacosta(~ddellacos@143.244.47.68)
2022-12-31 15:25:46 +0100razetime(~Thunderbi@49.207.194.134) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-12-31 15:27:18 +0100 <c_wraith> "need" is a funny word.
2022-12-31 15:28:56 +0100 <c_wraith> in the sense of "is this necessary to write a particular piece of software?", no typeclasses are needed.
2022-12-31 15:28:58 +0100 <isekaijin> Well, I would like to know if anything nontrivial is achieved by having a Representable type class. In math, certainly nontrivial things are achieved by having the notion of representable functor. (e.g., you define a functor, show that it satisfies the conditions of the Brown representability theorem, and then you get your classifying space for free, without constructing it “by hand”.)
2022-12-31 15:29:38 +0100 <isekaijin> Getting the type checker to construct a type for you from a functor would actually be pretty neat.
2022-12-31 15:30:44 +0100 <c_wraith> types don't really work that way in Haskell.
2022-12-31 15:31:59 +0100 <c_wraith> you might find https://packdeps.haskellers.com/reverse/adjunctions interesting
2022-12-31 15:32:18 +0100 <c_wraith> though admittedly, that package does export a lot more than Representable functors
2022-12-31 15:37:02 +0100emmanuelux(~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux)
2022-12-31 15:37:56 +0100 <c_wraith> but Representable does appear in the types of some of things that depend on it, like https://hackage.haskell.org/package/linear-1.22/docs/Linear-Matrix.html#v:column
2022-12-31 15:42:50 +0100mizlan(~mizlan@c-67-169-7-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
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2022-12-31 15:47:43 +0100 <isekaijin> c_wraith: Thanks!
2022-12-31 15:52:11 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
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2022-12-31 16:17:42 +0100son0p(~ff@2604:3d08:5b7f:5540::417e)
2022-12-31 16:19:41 +0100 <Jadesheit[m]> @pl f (g x) (g y)
2022-12-31 16:19:41 +0100 <lambdabot> f (g x) (g y)
2022-12-31 16:19:55 +0100 <Jadesheit[m]> wrong command a
2022-12-31 16:19:57 +0100 <Jadesheit[m]> * wrong command aaa
2022-12-31 16:20:10 +0100 <c_wraith> @pl \x y -> f (g x) (g y)
2022-12-31 16:20:10 +0100 <lambdabot> (. g) . f . g
2022-12-31 16:20:28 +0100 <Jadesheit[m]> I thought you could refactor that in general, not make it pointfree
2022-12-31 16:20:37 +0100 <Jadesheit[m]> like a binary operation after a unary one
2022-12-31 16:20:48 +0100 <Jadesheit[m]> in APL you have the S combinator I think
2022-12-31 16:20:55 +0100 <Jadesheit[m]> but is there an idiom in haskell?
2022-12-31 16:20:56 +0100 <c_wraith> S isn't quite right
2022-12-31 16:20:59 +0100 <mauke[m]> @pl \g -> f (g x) (g y)
2022-12-31 16:20:59 +0100 <lambdabot> liftM2 f ($ x) ($ y)
2022-12-31 16:21:07 +0100bjourne(~bjorn@94.191.136.28.mobile.tre.se)
2022-12-31 16:21:16 +0100 <c_wraith> S is \f g x -> f x (g x)
2022-12-31 16:21:23 +0100 <Jadesheit[m]> ohh right
2022-12-31 16:21:25 +0100 <Jadesheit[m]> mb
2022-12-31 16:21:49 +0100 <mauke[m]> @pl \x -> f (g x) (h x)
2022-12-31 16:21:49 +0100 <lambdabot> liftM2 f g h
2022-12-31 16:23:17 +0100 <Jadesheit[m]> does on work?
2022-12-31 16:23:29 +0100 <mauke[m]> @src on
2022-12-31 16:23:29 +0100 <lambdabot> (*) `on` f = \x y -> f x * f y
2022-12-31 16:23:42 +0100 <Jadesheit[m]> yeah
2022-12-31 16:23:44 +0100 <mauke[m]> yes, that seems reasonable
2022-12-31 16:24:14 +0100 <mauke[m]> > on f g x y :: Expr
2022-12-31 16:24:15 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2022-12-31 16:24:15 +0100 <lambdabot> • Ambiguous type variable ‘b0’ arising from a use of ‘f’
2022-12-31 16:24:15 +0100 <lambdabot> prevents the constraint ‘(Show b0)’ from being solved.
2022-12-31 16:24:51 +0100 <mauke[m]> > on (f :: Expr -> Expr -> Expr) g x y
2022-12-31 16:24:53 +0100 <lambdabot> f (g x) (g y)
2022-12-31 16:25:32 +0100 <Jadesheit[m]> perfect
2022-12-31 16:25:34 +0100 <Jadesheit[m]> thanks
2022-12-31 16:25:54 +0100freeside(~mengwong@103.252.202.159)
2022-12-31 16:26:05 +0100 <Jadesheit[m]> what exactly is Expr?
2022-12-31 16:26:27 +0100 <mauke[m]> fake symbolic evaluation
2022-12-31 16:26:29 +0100 <c_wraith> @hackage simple-reflect
2022-12-31 16:26:29 +0100 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/simple-reflect
2022-12-31 16:27:14 +0100 <c_wraith> It's not even fake symbolic evaluation. It's just really basic symbolic evaluation
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2022-12-31 17:52:46 +0100 <Guillaum[m]> I've done a bit of "type level string parsing" to parse iso 8601 duration: https://gist.github.com/guibou/32762816ace8e9c8509ace5570e73c96 . This is really painful, mostly because I did not find any way to let bind or pattern match in type familly other than introducing another new type familly. Do you know a better way?
2022-12-31 17:56:22 +0100 <dmj`> Guillaum[m]: very nice
2022-12-31 17:56:54 +0100 <dmj`> Guillaum[m]: I did something similar with JSON, https://github.com/dmjio/type-level-json/blob/master/src/TypeLevel/JSON.hs
2022-12-31 17:57:11 +0100 <dmj`> type level programmers of the world unite
2022-12-31 17:58:18 +0100 <mauke> inb4 type-level debugger
2022-12-31 17:58:18 +0100 <dmj`> Guillaum[m]: to answer your question I think there is no better way, TFs aren't higher order in Haskell so, you always have to introduce new local families
2022-12-31 17:59:27 +0100 <Guillaum[m]> [dmj](https://matrix.to/#/@dmj:libera.chat): thank you ;) You did something really nice with that json parser. The Lex TF is smart, it avoids the UnconsSymbol everywhere, it may simplifies a lot my implementation.
2022-12-31 17:59:28 +0100 <hpc> you need a kind checker of some kind to check your code for errors before you compile it
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2022-12-31 18:21:41 +0100iqubic(~avi@2601:601:1100:edd0:940d:fb26:8ec3:a80a) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-12-31 18:24:29 +0100bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-12-31 18:26:00 +0100bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2022-12-31 18:27:02 +0100 <dmj`> Guillaum[m]: UnconsSymbol is a huge game changer
2022-12-31 18:27:43 +0100 <dmj`> Guillaum[m]: Just waiting on someone to implement a SQL parser now
2022-12-31 18:29:18 +0100ddellacosta(~ddellacos@143.244.47.68) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-12-31 18:30:01 +0100 <dmj`> Guillaum[m]: lex preprocessing helps a lot yea
2022-12-31 18:30:50 +0100fserucas(~fserucas@2001:818:e376:a400:fb92:70c1:dd88:c7d7)
2022-12-31 18:33:03 +0100vpan(~0@212.117.1.172) (Quit: Leaving.)
2022-12-31 18:33:38 +0100Guest9971(~finn@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
2022-12-31 18:34:16 +0100 <dmj`> Guillaum[m]: multiline Symbols are kind of gross though
2022-12-31 18:35:01 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b011:11:9945:c47d)
2022-12-31 18:35:45 +0100harveypwca(~harveypwc@2601:246:c180:a570:3828:d8:e523:3f67)
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2022-12-31 18:54:50 +0100 <Guillaum[m]> [dmj](https://matrix.to/#/@dmj:libera.chat): Well, multiline strings are already a problem
2022-12-31 18:58:23 +0100bjourne(~bjorn@94.191.136.28.mobile.tre.se) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2022-12-31 20:39:41 +0100coot(~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba) (Quit: coot)
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2022-12-31 20:42:10 +0100Inst__(~Inst@2601:6c4:4081:54f0:342a:bdf3:5bc9:3b56) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2022-12-31 20:46:31 +0100werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-12-31 20:46:40 +0100werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Client Quit)
2022-12-31 20:48:03 +0100werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-12-31 20:49:24 +0100chexum(~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-12-31 20:55:49 +0100potash(~foghorn@user/foghorn) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2022-12-31 21:00:13 +0100Hiei(~Hiei@pool-68-129-167-109.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2022-12-31 21:00:18 +0100Hiei(~Hiei@pool-68-129-167-109.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) ()
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2022-12-31 22:00:47 +0100Guest4496(~finn@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
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2022-12-31 22:21:47 +0100Guest4496(~finn@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
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