2022/09/01

2022-09-01 00:00:47 +0000luffy(~chenqisu1@183.217.201.192)
2022-09-01 00:01:07 +0000 <maerwald[m]> guest8080: server side is almost dead, but I agree it's cool
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2022-09-01 00:02:35 +0000luffy(~chenqisu1@183.217.201.192) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-01 00:02:44 +0000 <guest8080> TY!  I agree its cool, I would much rather develop a SPA all within the server side dev env that fool with JS/TS/ and a billion new JS libraries
2022-09-01 00:05:44 +0000ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-09-01 00:11:41 +0000nilradical(~nilradica@user/naso)
2022-09-01 00:16:44 +0000 <hpc> this is why you make server-side SPAs
2022-09-01 00:16:53 +0000 <hpc> all the forms on one page and a wee bit of css at the top to toggle it
2022-09-01 00:17:11 +0000gurkenglas(~gurkengla@p548ac72e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-01 00:18:06 +0000 <hpc> also in haskell you're kind of server-side by default unless you mess around with ghcjs
2022-09-01 00:18:16 +0000 <rustisafungus> i run my server-side SPA on the client
2022-09-01 00:18:46 +0000 <rustisafungus> that's the client-on-server-on-client architecture
2022-09-01 00:18:53 +0000 <Axman6> guest8080: you might want to look at miso
2022-09-01 00:19:00 +0000 <hpc> rustisafungus: ah yes, electron apps
2022-09-01 00:19:12 +0000codaraxis__(~codaraxis@user/codaraxis)
2022-09-01 00:19:28 +0000 <rustisafungus> guest8080: try elm or purescript. you can auto generate elm types from haskell
2022-09-01 00:21:41 +0000Axman6mumbles something about rust absolutely not being a fungus
2022-09-01 00:21:53 +0000 <rustisafungus> hpc: yeah and then you can run those on the server in a vm for convenience and security, so you end up with client-on-server-on-client-on-server
2022-09-01 00:21:56 +0000Guest|80(~Guest|80@187.61.246.232) (Quit: Connection closed)
2022-09-01 00:22:10 +0000rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine)
2022-09-01 00:22:18 +0000 <Axman6> clearly the most efficient way to do things.
2022-09-01 00:22:41 +0000codaraxis(~codaraxis@user/codaraxis) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-01 00:22:57 +0000 <guest8080> TY everyone!    I'm looking at purescript now.  It looks like a nice bridge but still would require separate purescript development.  I'm wondering if something like a Haskell widget package that permits the construction of the GUI on the Haskell/server-side.  There would have to be event callbacks to the Haskell/server-side for GUI events
2022-09-01 00:22:58 +0000 <guest8080> tho.
2022-09-01 00:24:09 +0000 <rustisafungus> purescript is probably the better bet
2022-09-01 00:25:05 +0000 <rustisafungus> do you need to distribute your server side GUI across a server cluster?
2022-09-01 00:25:53 +0000 <guest8080> No simple simple dev test case.  Entire backend (including peristence) on one machine
2022-09-01 00:26:41 +0000 <Axman6> I can't wait for GHC to ship with a WASM backend, being able to run apps in secure containers will be fantastic for things like GUI apps
2022-09-01 00:26:47 +0000 <rustisafungus> (that was a joke but gosh someone must do that, maybe faang)
2022-09-01 00:27:42 +0000 <rustisafungus> i can't wait for an endless stream of WASM sandbox escape CVEs lolz
2022-09-01 00:27:48 +0000 <guest8080> That would be nice...I could use that WASM in the browser with gRPC callbacks to the server-side
2022-09-01 00:28:11 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-01 00:28:17 +0000 <rustisafungus> guest8080: tbh, get started with elm
2022-09-01 00:28:57 +0000 <guest8080> why elm rather than PS?  I read somewhere elm is rather opinionated and narrower than PS.
2022-09-01 00:29:14 +0000 <rustisafungus> the developer experience, at least when i tried it, was exquisite, lacking only in automatic reflection
2022-09-01 00:29:30 +0000 <rustisafungus> just, try it, it's minimalist and nice and then branch out. for real world use PS is probably better
2022-09-01 00:29:39 +0000mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@164.5.249.78) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-01 00:29:49 +0000 <guest8080> Ok, i'll check it out too.
2022-09-01 00:31:12 +0000 <rustisafungus> if haskell had elm-tier DX i would make happy fungus noises
2022-09-01 00:32:05 +0000 <guest8080> i've only experienced silent fungus so far
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2022-09-01 00:34:59 +0000Natch(~natch@c-9e07225c.038-60-73746f7.bbcust.telenor.se) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-01 00:35:07 +0000ix(~ix@2a02:8010:674f:0:d65d:64ff:fe52:5efe)
2022-09-01 00:36:27 +0000 <rustisafungus> distributed client-on-server-on-client-on-server GUIs running in a vm are the future
2022-09-01 00:36:59 +0000rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-01 00:37:14 +0000 <Axman6> guest8080: https://github.com/dmjio/miso/blob/master/README.md
2022-09-01 00:37:51 +0000 <guest8080> It's right up there with running on an emulator for a non-existent architecture.  Knuth's MMIX comes to mind
2022-09-01 00:38:04 +0000 <guest8080> I think qemu has a MMIX emulator
2022-09-01 00:38:13 +0000Natch(~natch@c-9e07225c.038-60-73746f7.bbcust.telenor.se)
2022-09-01 00:38:23 +0000 <rustisafungus> oh wow knuth designed an isa
2022-09-01 00:38:44 +0000 <guest8080> In his spare time for just a bit of assembly language pedagogy
2022-09-01 00:39:15 +0000 <Axman6> MMIX has some very cool instructions in it that I wish other architectures had
2022-09-01 00:39:40 +0000 <rustisafungus> fpgammix -- sayeth wikipedia
2022-09-01 00:40:06 +0000 <guest8080> Like? I thought he basically pulled the best of everything together even if it implied inconsistent HW implementation
2022-09-01 00:41:08 +0000qy(~ix@2a02:8010:674f:0:d65d:64ff:fe52:5efe)
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2022-09-01 00:42:10 +0000bsima(~bsima@143.198.118.179)
2022-09-01 00:42:28 +0000 <rustisafungus> but i thought instructions didn't matter
2022-09-01 00:42:43 +0000 <rustisafungus> except they do except they dont.
2022-09-01 00:43:05 +0000 <rustisafungus> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEyFH-a-XoQ
2022-09-01 00:43:06 +0000rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine)
2022-09-01 00:45:18 +0000 <guest8080> Axman6 , I ran across MISO in my research but set it aside because GHCJS was said to horribly slow.  Has it worked well for you?
2022-09-01 00:47:04 +0000 <guest8080> what is your fav assembly language instruction?  Mine:  Enforce In-order Execution of IO, a sync instruction on POWER/PowerPC:   eieio
2022-09-01 00:47:14 +0000 <rustisafungus> properly follow proper protocols.
2022-09-01 00:47:55 +0000rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-01 00:49:20 +0000ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2022-09-01 00:49:44 +0000 <guest8080> reduce unsigned short to integer
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2022-09-01 01:01:15 +0000rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine)
2022-09-01 01:04:23 +0000 <rustisafungus> guest8080: have you tried using a quantum computer for your distributed client-on-server-on-client-on-server in a vm GUI?
2022-09-01 01:04:54 +0000luffy(~chenqisu1@183.217.201.192)
2022-09-01 01:17:35 +0000 <Axman6> guest8080: I haven't used it myself, but it feels like the closest to what you want. I haven't heard people saying GHCJS is particularly slow, it tends to play quite well with many JS engines IIRC
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2022-09-01 01:35:11 +0000azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
2022-09-01 01:42:13 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-01 01:43:56 +0000 <maerwald[m]> Axman6: miso is client side
2022-09-01 01:44:02 +0000 <maerwald[m]> Is it not?
2022-09-01 01:47:25 +0000tom(~chenqisu1@183.217.201.192)
2022-09-01 01:48:29 +0000luffy(~chenqisu1@183.217.201.192) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-01 01:48:49 +0000tomGuest4212
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2022-09-01 01:55:14 +0000azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2022-09-01 01:56:11 +0000 <Axman6> I thought it was mix of both, but no idea. it's "isomorphic" - dmj` is probably the best person to answer
2022-09-01 01:56:12 +0000azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
2022-09-01 01:58:43 +0000rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine)
2022-09-01 02:00:08 +0000khumba(~khumba@user/khumba)
2022-09-01 02:00:19 +0000 <maerwald[m]> What is isomorphic?
2022-09-01 02:01:24 +0000nate4(~nate@98.45.169.16)
2022-09-01 02:02:30 +0000 <sclv> "isomorphic" is sometimes used to mean something entirely unlike the mathematical definition
2022-09-01 02:02:50 +0000 <maerwald[m]> I know
2022-09-01 02:02:56 +0000 <sclv> in the case of client side web programming people use it (unforgivably, i believe) to mean that the client and server code is the same language
2022-09-01 02:03:11 +0000 <maerwald[m]> I'm asking what is supposed to be isomorphic in this case
2022-09-01 02:03:27 +0000 <maerwald[m]> I don't think miso provides you with a server side framework
2022-09-01 02:04:19 +0000 <sclv> miso claims in its docs to be both and to be "isomorphic" in the webservice sense
2022-09-01 02:06:30 +0000merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net)
2022-09-01 02:07:05 +0000 <maerwald[m]> https://medium.com/airbnb-engineering/isomorphic-javascript-the-future-of-web-apps-10882b7a2ebc#.4…
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2022-09-01 02:12:35 +0000azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
2022-09-01 02:13:22 +0000 <waleee> today apparently was the day Haskell Curry passed away
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2022-09-01 04:14:54 +0000nilradical(~nilradica@user/naso) ()
2022-09-01 04:15:35 +0000 <Axman6> maerwald[m]: https://github.com/dmjio/miso/blob/master/README.md http://nerds.airbnb.com/isomorphic-javascript-future-web-apps/
2022-09-01 04:17:29 +0000kannon(~NK@135-180-47-54.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-01 04:19:21 +0000 <[Leary]> So I'm discovering that type roles actually kinda suck: <https://gist.github.com/LSLeary/f136fdf7aa0b2517ded00fe493c16e04>. I don't suppose anyone has a better solution than that? I want my safe coercions back.
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2022-09-01 04:48:28 +0000famubu(~famubu@user/famubu)
2022-09-01 04:48:48 +0000 <famubu> I was looking at https://github.com/ghc/ghc/blob/master/libraries/ghc-prim/GHC/Types.hs#L214
2022-09-01 04:48:57 +0000 <famubu> What does `I#` and `Int#` mean?
2022-09-01 04:49:11 +0000 <famubu> In `data {-# CTYPE "HsInt" #-} Int = I# Int#`
2022-09-01 04:49:22 +0000 <famubu> Do identifiers ending in `#` have special meaning?
2022-09-01 04:51:20 +0000Maxdamantus(~Maxdamant@user/maxdamantus) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-09-01 04:52:05 +0000 <JensPetersen[m]> Does anyone have ghc-9.4 working with github haskell/actions/setup ? Maybe I should ask ghcup
2022-09-01 04:53:16 +0000 <Axman6> I# is the name of the constructor, Int# is the name of a type, which is an unlifted Int
2022-09-01 04:53:41 +0000 <Axman6> they are special in that they're not generally allowed, but MagicHash allows you to use them
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2022-09-01 05:06:59 +0000wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot)
2022-09-01 05:07:19 +0000 <maerwald[m]> Jens Petersen: why not
2022-09-01 05:09:46 +0000 <mniip> [Leary], when I import the constructor of ReaderT, ghc is able to infer `a ~R b => ReaderT IO a ~R ReaderT IO b`
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2022-09-01 05:10:23 +0000 <mniip> possibly via ReaderT () IO a ~R () -> IO a ~R () -> IO b ~R ReaderT IO b
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2022-09-01 05:18:04 +0000 <[Leary]> mniip: That makes sense. But unfortunately, in the case that's troubling me, the constructor (the equivalent of App, rather than ReaderT) isn't exported.
2022-09-01 05:18:13 +0000 <[Leary]> So this approach doesn't work outside the module.
2022-09-01 05:18:34 +0000 <mniip> yeah in an ideal world role annotations would be dependent
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2022-09-01 05:28:10 +0000 <JensPetersen[m]> maerwald: sorry replied to you in #haskell-ghcup:libera.chat
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2022-09-01 06:11:01 +0000 <famubu> Axman6: Thanks. Got something to read up.
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2022-09-01 06:37:33 +0000 <Axman6> there's nothing particularly special about MagicHash, it just gives a way for the compiler devs to namespace really internal things
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2022-09-01 07:21:10 +0000mncheck(~mncheck@193.224.205.254)
2022-09-01 07:22:22 +0000 <bbear> there's a chapter on this unboxed types in 'haskell in depth' that is worth reading
2022-09-01 07:24:17 +0000 <dminuoso> Axman6: *to namespace unlifted things. At that point, I think it is particularly special.
2022-09-01 07:24:58 +0000 <dminuoso> Given that it's a mostly well respected convention, you can for the most part conclude that something carrying a # at the end of its name is unlifted. That makes it particularly special in my mind.
2022-09-01 07:25:11 +0000tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2022-09-01 07:25:20 +0000 <dminuoso> It's beyond just internal, since you cant use unlifted things in a place where lifted things are expected.
2022-09-01 07:25:45 +0000 <dminuoso> i.e. `Maybe Int#` is not constructable
2022-09-01 07:26:22 +0000 <bbear> but Maybe# Int# is ? :troll:
2022-09-01 07:26:53 +0000 <bbear> but can it be said simply that this represent access to unboxed primitive types?
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2022-09-01 07:27:29 +0000 <dminuoso> unboxed or unlifted, but yes
2022-09-01 07:27:36 +0000 <dminuoso> As per convention, anyhow.
2022-09-01 07:27:36 +0000 <bbear> I don't expect this unlifted thing to live in 99% percent of haskell programs
2022-09-01 07:27:39 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-01 07:27:53 +0000 <bbear> (I mean in the source code)
2022-09-01 07:27:56 +0000 <dminuoso> bbear: On the contrary, we have unlifted things in plenty of places.
2022-09-01 07:28:02 +0000ix(~ix@2a02:8010:674f:0:d65d:64ff:fe52:5efe)
2022-09-01 07:28:49 +0000acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7137a28f0c2e869287c3830.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-09-01 07:29:36 +0000codedmart(codedmart@2600:3c01::f03c:92ff:fefe:8511)
2022-09-01 07:29:36 +0000 <dminuoso> newtype IO a = IO (State# RealWorld -> (# State# RealWorld, a #))
2022-09-01 07:29:48 +0000 <dminuoso> Every IO action is a function producing an unlifted tuple.
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2022-09-01 07:36:07 +0000ix(~ix@2a02:8010:674f:0:d65d:64ff:fe52:5efe)
2022-09-01 07:36:46 +0000lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:5545:114e:b297:6323)
2022-09-01 07:41:18 +0000 <Axman6> (# (#) | Int# #) ~ Maybe# Int# (can't remember what the syntax for the unboxed 0-tuple)
2022-09-01 07:44:07 +0000zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a311:2d00:6865:d863:4c93:799f) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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2022-09-01 07:45:26 +0000benin0(~benin@59.92.178.116)
2022-09-01 07:45:46 +0000 <dminuoso> Axman6: It's the same as 1-tuples or 2-tuples etc
2022-09-01 07:45:52 +0000 <dminuoso> (# Int# #)
2022-09-01 07:46:18 +0000 <dminuoso> :k (# Int #)
2022-09-01 07:46:20 +0000 <lambdabot> error: Operator applied to too few arguments: #
2022-09-01 07:46:34 +0000 <dminuoso> lambdabot: Shush and just enable -XUnboxedTuples!
2022-09-01 07:46:44 +0000dminuosowants yahb back
2022-09-01 07:47:29 +0000 <[Leary]> % putStrLn "I am reborn?"
2022-09-01 07:47:29 +0000 <yahb2> I am reborn?
2022-09-01 07:47:47 +0000 <[Leary]> Yes, you are.
2022-09-01 07:52:10 +0000 <dminuoso> Glory and cookies to your rescuer.
2022-09-01 07:52:40 +0000 <[Leary]> That would be tomsmeding.
2022-09-01 07:53:21 +0000 <dminuoso> I see, I guess tom's new job is adopting community services that are no longer maintained.
2022-09-01 07:53:50 +0000 <dminuoso> What would we do without him. :)
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2022-09-01 08:20:53 +0000merijn(~merijn@eduroam.wifi.infracom.nl)
2022-09-01 08:24:33 +0000 <lortabac> is there an easy way to enforce a specific key order when encoding with aeson?
2022-09-01 08:24:43 +0000 <lortabac> I mean aeson 2
2022-09-01 08:26:26 +0000instantaphex(~jb@c-73-171-252-84.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
2022-09-01 08:26:41 +0000 <lortabac> or at least some documented workaround
2022-09-01 08:28:34 +0000fserucas(~fserucas@89.214.116.132)
2022-09-01 08:29:23 +0000 <dminuoso> lortabac: Yes, you can implement a custom toEncoding for that specific field.
2022-09-01 08:29:55 +0000zaquest(~notzaques@5.130.79.72) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-01 08:29:59 +0000 <dminuoso> It's not clean, you cant use toJSON then
2022-09-01 08:30:06 +0000OpenSource(~kernel@user/OpenSource)
2022-09-01 08:30:06 +0000 <merijn> Although I would instead recommend: Seriously reevaluating your life's choices leading up to wanting this...
2022-09-01 08:30:09 +0000 <dminuoso> But as long as the code that uses it is under your control it works
2022-09-01 08:30:42 +0000 <lortabac> merijn: I have good reasons
2022-09-01 08:30:43 +0000instantaphex(~jb@c-73-171-252-84.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-01 08:31:04 +0000zaquest(~notzaques@5.130.79.72)
2022-09-01 08:31:07 +0000 <merijn> I don't believe you, but that's between you and god :p
2022-09-01 08:31:41 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-01 08:32:00 +0000 <lortabac> haha
2022-09-01 08:32:15 +0000 <merijn> Also between you and future you who will want to murder you
2022-09-01 08:32:25 +0000[Leary](~Leary]@user/Leary/x-0910699) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-01 08:32:29 +0000 <qrpnxz> if the reason is "it's not up to me", then that's pretty good reason
2022-09-01 08:33:09 +0000mzan(~quassel@mail.asterisell.com) (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2022-09-01 08:33:24 +0000 <merijn> Agree to disagree :D
2022-09-01 08:33:34 +0000freemanX(~user@203.117.163.130) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-01 08:34:04 +0000 <dminuoso> lortabac: Essentially just copy and modify: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-2.1.0.0/docs/src/Data.Aeson.Encoding.Builder.html#object
2022-09-01 08:34:51 +0000 <dminuoso> (Wrap the thing with a newtype accordingly)_
2022-09-01 08:35:18 +0000 <lortabac> dminuoso: thanks, I need to check if it's actually doable, as I don't own all the types involved
2022-09-01 08:35:39 +0000 <lortabac> but it seems like a good way to approach the problem
2022-09-01 08:37:36 +0000 <lortabac> it should be feasible with a couple of newtypes
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2022-09-01 09:20:16 +0000stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
2022-09-01 09:21:16 +0000 <kuribas> is the STG documentation still relevant for x64?
2022-09-01 09:21:39 +0000 <kuribas> I mean this page: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/commentary/compiler/generated-code
2022-09-01 09:23:21 +0000stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2022-09-01 09:24:24 +0000 <merijn> define "relevant"? :)
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2022-09-01 09:38:15 +0000 <kuribas> that it's enough to understand assembly output.
2022-09-01 09:38:25 +0000 <kuribas> doesn't have to match 1 to 1
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2022-09-01 10:40:05 +0000pagnol(~me@213-205-209-87.ftth.glasoperator.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-09-01 10:43:23 +0000merijn(~merijn@eduroam.wifi.infracom.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-09-01 10:50:11 +0000gabiruh_(~gabiruh@vps19177.publiccloud.com.br)
2022-09-01 10:50:37 +0000nilradical(~nilradica@user/naso)
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2022-09-01 10:56:20 +0000ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-09-01 10:57:08 +0000ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex)
2022-09-01 11:00:48 +0000CiaoSen(~Jura@p200300c9572e65002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-09-01 11:02:31 +0000coot(~coot@213.134.176.158) (Quit: coot)
2022-09-01 11:06:23 +0000nilradical(~nilradica@user/naso) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-09-01 11:07:24 +0000libertyprime(~libertypr@118-92-68-91.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz)
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2022-09-01 11:18:54 +0000pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2022-09-01 11:20:21 +0000nilradical(~nilradica@user/naso)
2022-09-01 11:22:14 +0000akegalj(~akegalj@93-138-22-32.adsl.net.t-com.hr)
2022-09-01 11:27:07 +0000jespada(~jespada@cpc121060-nmal24-2-0-cust249.19-2.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2022-09-01 11:31:01 +0000merijn(~merijn@sp-eduroam-215-3.wireless.uva.nl)
2022-09-01 11:35:32 +0000CiaoSen(~Jura@p200300c9572e65002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: CiaoSen)
2022-09-01 11:36:57 +0000pagnol(~me@92-68-20-1.biz.kpn.net)
2022-09-01 11:37:41 +0000merijn(~merijn@sp-eduroam-215-3.wireless.uva.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-09-01 11:37:55 +0000coot(~coot@213.134.176.158)
2022-09-01 11:43:16 +0000instantaphex(~jb@c-73-171-252-84.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
2022-09-01 11:43:58 +0000jespada(~jespada@cpc121060-nmal24-2-0-cust249.19-2.cable.virginm.net)
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2022-09-01 11:48:38 +0000libertyprime(~libertypr@118-92-68-91.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-09-01 11:49:39 +0000toeffel(~toeffel@user/toeffel)
2022-09-01 11:50:23 +0000nilradical(~nilradica@user/naso) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-01 11:50:59 +0000nilradical(~nilradica@user/naso)
2022-09-01 11:55:46 +0000nilradical(~nilradica@user/naso) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-01 11:56:41 +0000c0c0(~coco@212-51-146-199.fiber7.init7.net)
2022-09-01 11:56:51 +0000libertyprime(~libertypr@118-92-68-91.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz)
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2022-09-01 12:01:24 +0000coot(~coot@213.134.176.158) (Quit: coot)
2022-09-01 12:02:07 +0000econo(uid147250@user/econo) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2022-09-01 12:10:45 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-01 12:14:54 +0000kannon(~NK@135-180-47-54.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net)
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2022-09-01 12:21:19 +0000nilradical(~nilradica@user/naso)
2022-09-01 12:22:38 +0000acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7137a28f0c2e869287c3830.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-09-01 12:22:40 +0000akegalj(~akegalj@93-138-22-32.adsl.net.t-com.hr) (Quit: leaving)
2022-09-01 12:23:38 +0000benin0(~benin@117.193.64.161)
2022-09-01 12:25:01 +0000c0c0(~coco@212-51-146-199.fiber7.init7.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-01 12:26:45 +0000jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net)
2022-09-01 12:27:32 +0000nilradical(~nilradica@user/naso) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-01 12:27:47 +0000nilradical(~nilradica@user/naso)
2022-09-01 12:30:15 +0000oo_migue1(~pi@77-252-46-249.static.ip.netia.com.pl) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0)
2022-09-01 12:30:17 +0000c0c0(~coco@85.195.206.136)
2022-09-01 12:36:51 +0000bitdex_(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "")
2022-09-01 12:40:14 +0000acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7137a28f0c2e869287c3830.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-09-01 12:46:50 +0000albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-01 12:47:23 +0000Guest4212(~chenqisu1@183.217.201.192) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-01 12:51:45 +0000nilradical(~nilradica@user/naso) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-01 12:52:19 +0000smichel17[m](~smichel17@2001:470:69fc:105::2d32) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2022-09-01 12:52:23 +0000Kaipei(~Kaiepi@142.68.249.28) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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2022-09-01 12:52:37 +0000smichel17[m](~smichel17@2001:470:69fc:105::2d32)
2022-09-01 12:52:51 +0000fendor[m](~fendormat@2001:470:69fc:105::fcbd) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2022-09-01 12:52:51 +0000cdepillabout[m](~cdepillab@2001:470:69fc:105::3d3) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2022-09-01 12:52:53 +0000nilradical(~nilradica@user/naso)
2022-09-01 12:52:57 +0000albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8)
2022-09-01 12:53:06 +0000fendor[m](~fendormat@2001:470:69fc:105::fcbd)
2022-09-01 12:54:37 +0000cdepillabout[m](~cdepillab@2001:470:69fc:105::3d3)
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2022-09-01 12:56:31 +0000siraben(~siraben@user/siraben)
2022-09-01 12:57:47 +0000nilradical(~nilradica@user/naso) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-09-01 13:00:56 +0000xff0x(~xff0x@ai071162.d.east.v6connect.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-09-01 13:01:50 +0000fryguybob(~fryguybob@cpe-74-67-169-145.rochester.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-09-01 13:02:06 +0000fryguybob(~fryguybob@cpe-74-67-169-145.rochester.res.rr.com)
2022-09-01 13:04:23 +0000frost(~frost@user/frost) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2022-09-01 13:06:45 +0000frost(~frost@user/frost)
2022-09-01 13:07:29 +0000waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340)
2022-09-01 13:11:53 +0000eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-09-01 13:12:11 +0000CiaoSen(~Jura@p200300c9572e65002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-09-01 13:13:42 +0000xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:2fc4:f88d:3507:57fe)
2022-09-01 13:16:22 +0000CiaoSen(~Jura@p200300c9572e65002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-01 13:16:22 +0000eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-01 13:16:29 +0000shriekingnoise(~shrieking@186.137.167.202)
2022-09-01 13:16:53 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-01 13:17:08 +0000coot(~coot@213.134.176.158)
2022-09-01 13:17:25 +0000nilradical(~nilradica@user/naso)
2022-09-01 13:24:44 +0000tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-09-01 13:25:30 +0000merijn(~merijn@eduroam.wifi.infracom.nl)
2022-09-01 13:27:18 +0000Kaipei(~Kaiepi@142.68.249.28)
2022-09-01 13:29:12 +0000nilradical(~nilradica@user/naso) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-01 13:29:22 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-01 13:29:27 +0000nilradical(~nilradica@user/naso)
2022-09-01 13:38:54 +0000Kaipei(~Kaiepi@142.68.249.28) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-01 13:39:42 +0000Kaipei(~Kaiepi@142.68.249.28)
2022-09-01 13:41:41 +0000Kaipei(~Kaiepi@142.68.249.28) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-09-01 13:42:05 +0000Kaipei(~Kaiepi@142.68.249.28)
2022-09-01 13:42:52 +0000guest8080(~guest8080@S01069050ca3016a3.vs.shawcable.net) (Quit: Client closed)
2022-09-01 13:47:22 +0000tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2022-09-01 13:49:51 +0000tdbtwlt^^(~tdbtwlt@c-73-237-184-20.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
2022-09-01 13:57:33 +0000mncheck(~mncheck@193.224.205.254) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-01 14:01:40 +0000toeffel_(~toeffel@user/toeffel)
2022-09-01 14:02:17 +0000poscat(~poscat@114.245.109.80) (Quit: Bye)
2022-09-01 14:04:01 +0000toeffel(~toeffel@user/toeffel) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-01 14:04:38 +0000poscat(~poscat@2408:8206:4821:6e31:cce:2afe:4f78:9c82)
2022-09-01 14:07:21 +0000waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340) (Quit: WeeChat 3.6)
2022-09-01 14:07:50 +0000Kaiepi(~Kaiepi@142.68.249.28)
2022-09-01 14:07:54 +0000wafflepirate(sid467876@id-467876.ilkley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2022-09-01 14:07:58 +0000cbarrett(sid192934@id-192934.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-09-01 14:08:02 +0000wafflepirate(sid467876@id-467876.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2022-09-01 14:08:06 +0000alinab(sid468903@id-468903.helmsley.irccloud.com)
2022-09-01 14:08:07 +0000lally(sid388228@id-388228.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2022-09-01 14:08:17 +0000Kaipei(~Kaiepi@142.68.249.28) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-01 14:08:18 +0000meinside(uid24933@id-24933.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-09-01 14:08:30 +0000SethTisue(sid14912@id-14912.ilkley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-09-01 14:08:33 +0000__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn)
2022-09-01 14:08:34 +0000Kaiepi(~Kaiepi@142.68.249.28) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-09-01 14:08:38 +0000pepeiborra(sid443799@id-443799.ilkley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-09-01 14:08:44 +0000vito(sid1962@user/vito)
2022-09-01 14:08:58 +0000supersven(sid501114@id-501114.ilkley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-09-01 14:09:02 +0000Fangs(sid141280@id-141280.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-01 14:09:02 +0000mrianbloom(sid350277@id-350277.ilkley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2022-09-01 14:09:39 +0000pjlsergeant(sid143467@id-143467.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-01 14:09:39 +0000AndreasK(sid320732@id-320732.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-01 14:09:39 +0000mustafa(sid502723@rockylinux/releng/mustafa) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-01 14:09:39 +0000astra(sid289983@user/amish) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-01 14:09:42 +0000Kaiepi(~Kaiepi@142.68.249.28)
2022-09-01 14:09:42 +0000wallymathieu(sid533252@id-533252.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-09-01 14:10:46 +0000mrianbloom(sid350277@id-350277.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2022-09-01 14:10:46 +0000supersven(sid501114@id-501114.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2022-09-01 14:10:46 +0000AndreasK(sid320732@id-320732.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2022-09-01 14:10:46 +0000SethTisue(sid14912@id-14912.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2022-09-01 14:10:47 +0000pepeiborra(sid443799@id-443799.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2022-09-01 14:10:47 +0000wallymathieu(sid533252@id-533252.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2022-09-01 14:10:57 +0000astra(sid289983@id-289983.hampstead.irccloud.com)
2022-09-01 14:10:57 +0000JSharp(sid4580@id-4580.lymington.irccloud.com)
2022-09-01 14:11:49 +0000meinside(uid24933@id-24933.helmsley.irccloud.com)
2022-09-01 14:11:49 +0000mustafa(sid502723@rockylinux/releng/mustafa)
2022-09-01 14:11:49 +0000pjlsergeant(sid143467@id-143467.hampstead.irccloud.com)
2022-09-01 14:11:49 +0000Fangs(sid141280@id-141280.hampstead.irccloud.com)
2022-09-01 14:12:03 +0000haskl(~haskl@user/haskl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-01 14:13:50 +0000libertyprime(~libertypr@118-92-68-91.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-09-01 14:15:39 +0000zxx7529(~Thunderbi@user/zxx7529) (Quit: zxx7529)
2022-09-01 14:16:31 +0000arahael(~arahael@60-240-64-125.tpgi.com.au) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-01 14:20:02 +0000tdbtwlt^(~tdbtwlt@c-73-237-184-20.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
2022-09-01 14:22:55 +0000haskl(~haskl@user/haskl)
2022-09-01 14:23:27 +0000tdbtwlt^^(~tdbtwlt@c-73-237-184-20.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-01 14:23:52 +0000frost(~frost@user/frost) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-01 14:24:38 +0000tdbtwlt^(~tdbtwlt@c-73-237-184-20.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-09-01 14:26:07 +0000benin0(~benin@117.193.64.161) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-01 14:28:42 +0000arahael(~arahael@60-241-143-35.tpgi.com.au)
2022-09-01 14:32:19 +0000sammelweis(~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-01 14:32:35 +0000mima(~mmh@dhcp-138-246-3-240.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de)
2022-09-01 14:35:01 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net)
2022-09-01 14:35:10 +0000toeffel(~toeffel@user/toeffel)
2022-09-01 14:37:18 +0000toeffel_(~toeffel@user/toeffel) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-09-01 14:38:53 +0000L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah)
2022-09-01 14:41:29 +0000tdbtwlt^(~tdbtwlt@c-73-237-184-20.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
2022-09-01 14:44:01 +0000benin0(~benin@117.193.64.161)
2022-09-01 14:48:01 +0000dwt_(~dwt_@c-98-198-103-176.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-01 14:48:13 +0000o-90(~o-90@gateway/tor-sasl/o-90)
2022-09-01 14:52:58 +0000eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-09-01 14:55:54 +0000nisstyre(wes@user/nisstyre) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-09-01 15:01:13 +0000arahael(~arahael@60-241-143-35.tpgi.com.au) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-01 15:04:14 +0000eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-01 15:05:24 +0000tdbtwlt^(~tdbtwlt@c-73-237-184-20.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-01 15:06:21 +0000dwt_(~dwt_@c-98-198-103-176.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
2022-09-01 15:06:42 +0000acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7137a28f0c2e869287c3830.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-09-01 15:08:23 +0000gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2022-09-01 15:14:42 +0000arahael(~arahael@115-64-199-183.tpgi.com.au)
2022-09-01 15:15:35 +0000andreabedini(~andreabed@host-87-18-207-240.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Quit: WeeChat 3.6)
2022-09-01 15:15:36 +0000tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
2022-09-01 15:16:50 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-09-01 15:17:10 +0000FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2022-09-01 15:18:58 +0000mncheck(~mncheck@193.224.205.254)
2022-09-01 15:19:31 +0000FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2022-09-01 15:21:33 +0000jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
2022-09-01 15:23:06 +0000libertyprime(~libertypr@118-92-68-91.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz)
2022-09-01 15:23:40 +0000jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2022-09-01 15:24:04 +0000gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2022-09-01 15:26:33 +0000nisstyre(wes@user/nisstyre)
2022-09-01 15:26:53 +0000merijn(~merijn@eduroam.wifi.infracom.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-01 15:27:15 +0000gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2022-09-01 15:27:35 +0000tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-09-01 15:28:41 +0000jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client)
2022-09-01 15:30:05 +0000biberu(~biberu@user/biberu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-09-01 15:31:00 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-01 15:31:48 +0000jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2022-09-01 15:35:15 +0000segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net)
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2022-09-01 16:37:28 +0000 <shapr> @quote
2022-09-01 16:37:28 +0000 <lambdabot> x11 says: -- this assumes bytes are 8 bits. I hope X isn't more portable than that :(
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2022-09-01 17:54:48 +0000gm3(~gm3@2.58.185.24)
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2022-09-01 17:57:15 +0000 <gm3> Data.Vector.replicate 10 undefined evaluates to undefined. Why is it forcing undefined?
2022-09-01 17:57:16 +0000mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@164.5.249.78)
2022-09-01 17:58:09 +0000 <dminuoso> gm3: In what context did you try this? GHCi?
2022-09-01 17:58:22 +0000 <gm3> No, compiled program.
2022-09-01 17:58:35 +0000 <dminuoso> How are you using that vector?
2022-09-01 17:59:17 +0000 <gm3> But I was testing it with a code lens. Maybe that's the problem?
2022-09-01 17:59:32 +0000 <dminuoso> Quite possibly, yes.
2022-09-01 17:59:48 +0000 <dminuoso> If you just try this in GHCi you will observe no bottom: seq (V.replicate 10 undefined) 1
2022-09-01 18:00:13 +0000 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: Whats the protocol to request changes to your yahb instance? I would like `vector` to be added for example
2022-09-01 18:01:12 +0000 <dminuoso> gm3: What exactly do you mean by code lens? Im a mildly confused because you also said this was in a compiled program.
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2022-09-01 18:14:04 +0000gm3(~gm3@2.58.185.24)
2022-09-01 18:16:54 +0000 <zzz> is implicit prelude considered a wart??
2022-09-01 18:18:34 +0000 <[exa]> no why
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2022-09-01 18:19:57 +0000kadir(~kadir@78.190.6.104)
2022-09-01 18:20:58 +0000kadir(~kadir@78.190.6.104) ()
2022-09-01 18:21:17 +0000merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net)
2022-09-01 18:21:55 +0000 <monochrom> Let's crank that up to eleven!
2022-09-01 18:22:34 +0000 <monochrom> -XIncoherentInstances exists. Therefore, instance coherenence is considered a wart. >:)
2022-09-01 18:22:45 +0000tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
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2022-09-01 18:25:40 +0000biberu(~biberu@user/biberu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-09-01 18:25:45 +0000 <zzz> well the only time i use Prelude is when writing a library and that's just because minimizing dependencies is good
2022-09-01 18:25:53 +0000biberu\(~biberu@user/biberu)
2022-09-01 18:26:07 +0000merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-01 18:26:19 +0000geekosaurguesses you use it more than you think
2022-09-01 18:26:41 +0000 <zzz> geekosaur: sure, but i wouldn't if i could avoid it
2022-09-01 18:27:22 +0000 <zzz> it keeps us stuck i think
2022-09-01 18:27:26 +0000biberu\biberu
2022-09-01 18:27:27 +0000 <geekosaur> huh?
2022-09-01 18:28:01 +0000 <geekosaur> it's filled with utility functions people use all the time? what's stuck about that? we should reinvent them all the time instead?
2022-09-01 18:28:18 +0000 <zzz> oh no, that;s not my point at all
2022-09-01 18:28:35 +0000 <zzz> of course it;s useful
2022-09-01 18:29:15 +0000 <zzz> but it also keeps many undesireable things around
2022-09-01 18:29:49 +0000 <zzz> well, i'm just bitching about nothing really...
2022-09-01 18:30:10 +0000 <geekosaur> if you mean String, System.IO isn't in the Prelude and has a much larger effect
2022-09-01 18:30:35 +0000justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-01 18:30:46 +0000eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-09-01 18:31:11 +0000 <geekosaur> (if you mean String, you probably shouldn't. I have lots of little programs sitting around that use String and rarely if ever use any Strings long enough to justify Text)
2022-09-01 18:31:19 +0000 <monochrom> Have you used "1+1"? Then you have used Prelude.
2022-09-01 18:31:29 +0000 <monochrom> Have you used do-notation? Then you have used Prelude.
2022-09-01 18:31:37 +0000 <zzz> what's good does it do besides saving us the effort of writing `import Prelude` ?
2022-09-01 18:31:44 +0000 <zzz> *what
2022-09-01 18:32:16 +0000 <monochrom> Have you used "x == y"? Then you have used Prelude.
2022-09-01 18:32:43 +0000 <monochrom> Have you used "otherwise"? Then you have used Prelude.
2022-09-01 18:32:57 +0000 <monochrom> Have you used "Maybe"? Then you have used Prelude.
2022-09-01 18:33:25 +0000 <monochrom> Have you used "Bool"? Then you have used Prelude.
2022-09-01 18:33:34 +0000 <zzz> lol i get the point
2022-09-01 18:34:15 +0000 <geekosaur> let's turn that around. why should I have to do an import to get very basic stuff?
2022-09-01 18:34:29 +0000 <geekosaur> (as monochrom has been pointing out)
2022-09-01 18:34:30 +0000 <monochrom> You can always write your own "import Prelude hiding (undesirable stuff)" by your logic.
2022-09-01 18:34:45 +0000 <zzz> because you might prefer a Prelude alternative (as there are many)
2022-09-01 18:34:59 +0000 <monochrom> No, speak for yourself.
2022-09-01 18:35:03 +0000 <geekosaur> none of which has enough mindshare to catch on
2022-09-01 18:35:14 +0000 <monochrom> I unprefer all those alternatives.
2022-09-01 18:35:17 +0000eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-09-01 18:35:21 +0000 <geekosaur> which is why there are so many of them: everyone's got their own notion of an ideal Prelude
2022-09-01 18:35:35 +0000 <geekosaur> and nobody can agree on one
2022-09-01 18:35:35 +0000 <zzz> right
2022-09-01 18:35:42 +0000 <zzz> so why an implicit one?
2022-09-01 18:35:45 +0000 <geekosaur> not because there's already a Prelude
2022-09-01 18:35:59 +0000 <geekosaur> again, why do I have to import something to get the basics?
2022-09-01 18:36:06 +0000 <geekosaur> this isn't Java
2022-09-01 18:36:24 +0000 <geekosaur> and even that implicitly gives you java.lang.whatever
2022-09-01 18:36:24 +0000 <monochrom> Actually Java has its equivalent of implicit prelude too IIRC.
2022-09-01 18:36:40 +0000 <monochrom> Yeah, that.
2022-09-01 18:36:50 +0000 <zzz> i'm getting the feeling i'm not the first person to contest this :p ok i get the point
2022-09-01 18:37:13 +0000 <monochrom> Sure, you in good company with every alternative prelude authors.
2022-09-01 18:37:21 +0000 <monochrom> s/you/you're/
2022-09-01 18:37:32 +0000 <johnw> rolling your own prelude is a rite of passage
2022-09-01 18:38:03 +0000 <monochrom> But are you conflating "implicit prelude is a wart" with "the standard prelude is a wart"?
2022-09-01 18:38:21 +0000 <johnw> I even did so at one point, but I'm sure glad not to have to maintain it now :)
2022-09-01 18:38:48 +0000 <monochrom> Because surely everyone, especially the alternative prelude authors, have to think "implicit prelude is not a wart, as long as it's my prelude".
2022-09-01 18:38:53 +0000Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-09-01 18:39:01 +0000 <monochrom> Because programmers are egomaniacs.
2022-09-01 18:39:06 +0000 <zzz> no. my point is that *any* implicit library is wart, because if in the future we find out that it contains something *really* undesireable, it's a pain to change it because "it breaks too many stuff"
2022-09-01 18:39:24 +0000Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
2022-09-01 18:39:35 +0000 <geekosaur> it still breaks things if explicitly imported
2022-09-01 18:39:42 +0000 <johnw> I think no size fits all, and engineering teams should evolve their own preludes specific to the applications they're building. If you're a library author, use what's standard.
2022-09-01 18:39:45 +0000 <monochrom> How are explicit libraries any different?
2022-09-01 18:39:57 +0000azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2022-09-01 18:39:58 +0000 <geekosaur> it is literally no easier to remove something from an explicit prelude
2022-09-01 18:40:00 +0000jinsunGuest1029
2022-09-01 18:40:00 +0000jinsun__(~jinsun@user/jinsun)
2022-09-01 18:40:00 +0000Guest1029(~jinsun@user/jinsun) (Killed (tantalum.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)))
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2022-09-01 18:40:19 +0000Topsi(~Topsi@dyndsl-095-033-090-077.ewe-ip-backbone.de)
2022-09-01 18:40:19 +0000 <monochrom> 99% of base is non-implicit and still suffers "it's a pain to change it because "it breaks too many stuff"
2022-09-01 18:40:20 +0000 <zzz> geekosaur: no, legacy programs with implicit imports will continue to import the undesireable stuff, but new projects will just import UpdatedPrelude
2022-09-01 18:40:27 +0000jinsun(~jinsun@user/jinsun) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-09-01 18:40:38 +0000 <zzz> s/will/would
2022-09-01 18:40:57 +0000 <monochrom> lens suffers "it's a pain to change it because "it breaks too many stuff"
2022-09-01 18:41:00 +0000 <zzz> s/implicit/explicit
2022-09-01 18:41:15 +0000jinsun(~jinsun@user/jinsun)
2022-09-01 18:41:16 +0000 <monochrom> text suffers "it's a pain to change it because "it breaks too many stuff"
2022-09-01 18:41:24 +0000 <geekosaur> that gets you UpdatedUpdatedUpdated...UpdatedPrelude
2022-09-01 18:41:31 +0000 <zzz> geekosaur: yes
2022-09-01 18:41:48 +0000 <monochrom> The only way to win is to not write software at all.
2022-09-01 18:41:55 +0000 <geekosaur> I *could* see support for specifying a prelude to import, and even cabal support for that
2022-09-01 18:42:22 +0000 <geekosaur> but not importing anything into ghci at all completely misses the point of ghci
2022-09-01 18:42:35 +0000 <yushyin> geekosaur: we have that already with mixins, no?
2022-09-01 18:42:36 +0000 <geekosaur> and the same can be said for small utility programs
2022-09-01 18:42:50 +0000 <geekosaur> for the 5 people who know how to use mixins, maybe
2022-09-01 18:44:45 +0000 <monochrom> Let's crank that up to one hundred and twenty one.
2022-09-01 18:44:53 +0000 <monochrom> Is implicit GHC considered a wart?
2022-09-01 18:47:08 +0000 <monochrom> Hrm so I'm one of the Big Five who know how to use mixins :)
2022-09-01 18:47:33 +0000 <johnw> are mixins different from backpack?
2022-09-01 18:47:55 +0000 <monochrom> We're going be permanent members of some United Haskellers Securty Council or something I guess >:)
2022-09-01 18:48:14 +0000 <yushyin> johnw: it's a by-product of backpack :D
2022-09-01 18:50:24 +0000 <yushyin> but makes it easy to change the implicit prelude to a different one
2022-09-01 18:52:46 +0000 <mniip> so the story of These is that it's a coproduct in Set* and Aligned is a functor(ish) representable in Set*
2022-09-01 18:53:00 +0000o-90(~o-90@gateway/tor-sasl/o-90)
2022-09-01 18:53:00 +0000 <mniip> is there a story for working with higher arity coproducts in a way that doesn't suck?
2022-09-01 18:56:15 +0000Achylles(~Achylles_@2804:431:d724:a3e0:a3ac:a5c3:30bd:f0d9) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-09-01 18:56:25 +0000 <mniip> I'm looking to write a function that is vaguely of the shape (Map k v1, ..., Map k vn) -> (Map k r1, ..., Map k rm)
2022-09-01 18:56:53 +0000 <mniip> it would suck to go through These v1 (... (These vn-1 vn) ...) because that's exponentially many pattern cases
2022-09-01 19:00:22 +0000 <geekosaur> ohai! (not that I know the answer)
2022-09-01 19:01:04 +0000 <mniip> it's like a state machine but sideways
2022-09-01 19:02:06 +0000 <mniip> in reality n=4 and m=2 but that's enough to make me struggle to manage the complexity of any ad-hoc solution
2022-09-01 19:02:13 +0000 <mniip> (hi!)
2022-09-01 19:05:29 +0000 <mniip> even ignoring the v1...vn bit
2022-09-01 19:06:16 +0000 <mniip> is there a composable way to convert (Bool^n -> Bool^m) into ((Set k)^n -> (Set k)^m)
2022-09-01 19:06:23 +0000 <mniip> assuming the input function is 0-preserving
2022-09-01 19:06:31 +0000michalz(~michalz@185.246.204.75) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-01 19:07:34 +0000 <mniip> this is the v~() version of the question and here we already run into questions like how to algebraically express the set of 0-preserving boolean functions
2022-09-01 19:08:33 +0000michalz(~michalz@185.246.204.75)
2022-09-01 19:08:42 +0000o-90(~o-90@gateway/tor-sasl/o-90) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2022-09-01 19:13:06 +0000 <mniip> no wait
2022-09-01 19:13:10 +0000 <mniip> These is a product
2022-09-01 19:17:10 +0000 <mniip> do we have tensor-hom in Set*?
2022-09-01 19:19:33 +0000kannon(~NK@198-0-221-12-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
2022-09-01 19:21:26 +0000rustisafungus(~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net)
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2022-09-01 19:23:04 +0000titibandit(~titibandi@xdsl-84-44-227-248.nc.de)
2022-09-01 19:23:31 +0000 <mniip> had to write that one down. Looks like Set* is not cartesian closed, so our ability to define n-ary functions by "currying" and consurming the arguments one by one -- is compromised
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2022-09-01 19:30:16 +0000tdbtwlt^(~tdbtwlt@c-73-237-184-20.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-01 19:32:19 +0000justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
2022-09-01 19:33:53 +0000coot(~coot@213.134.176.158) (Quit: coot)
2022-09-01 19:38:46 +0000gm3(~gm3@2.58.185.24) (Quit: Client closed)
2022-09-01 19:38:58 +0000 <zzz> oh no, <$> and == have the same priority :X
2022-09-01 19:40:07 +0000neceve(~quassel@2.26.93.14) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-01 19:40:26 +0000trcc(~trcc@87-57-134-11-cable.dk.customer.tdc.net)
2022-09-01 19:41:30 +0000kannon(~NK@198-0-221-12-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: leaving)
2022-09-01 19:41:46 +0000mima(~mmh@aftr-62-216-207-192.dynamic.mnet-online.de)
2022-09-01 19:41:53 +0000tdbtwlt^^(~tdbtwlt@c-73-237-184-20.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-09-01 19:44:02 +0000 <trcc> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/4pLE8NSf for some reason I only get to ("Received the filename: " <> inputFilename), which is outputted. Then the terminal acts weird afterwards. Any ideas?
2022-09-01 19:45:02 +0000adanwan_(~adanwan@gateway/tor-sasl/adanwan) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-01 19:45:29 +0000adanwan(~adanwan@gateway/tor-sasl/adanwan)
2022-09-01 19:46:41 +0000 <geekosaur> the first getContents reads everything up to a control-D
2022-09-01 19:46:51 +0000 <geekosaur> you want getLine
2022-09-01 19:47:02 +0000 <geekosaur> (or control-Z on windows)
2022-09-01 19:47:05 +0000 <trcc> ah ok
2022-09-01 19:47:06 +0000 <trcc> thanks
2022-09-01 19:49:25 +0000Topsi(~Topsi@dyndsl-095-033-090-077.ewe-ip-backbone.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2022-09-01 19:55:30 +0000adium(adium@user/adium) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
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2022-09-01 21:02:09 +0000stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-09-01 21:06:29 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-09-01 21:09:02 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
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2022-09-01 21:12:05 +0000janus(janus@anubis.0x90.dk)
2022-09-01 21:12:19 +0000 <janus> how do i set the equivalent of "profiling-detail: none" in stack.yaml?
2022-09-01 21:12:24 +0000mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@164.5.249.78)
2022-09-01 21:12:55 +0000pagnol(~me@213-205-209-87.ftth.glasoperator.nl)
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2022-09-01 21:14:20 +0000GascOwn(~gasc_own@151.16.85.124) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-09-01 21:14:31 +0000mrmr(~mrmr@user/mrmr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2022-09-01 21:15:53 +0000cheater(~Username@user/cheater) (Quit: BitchX: now with wings!)
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2022-09-01 21:17:07 +0000tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-09-01 21:19:04 +0000TonyStone(~TonyStone@2603-7080-8607-c36a-d034-9363-3fef-214e.res6.spectrum.com)
2022-09-01 21:19:33 +0000MoC(~moc@user/moc) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2022-09-01 21:22:29 +0000pagnol(~me@213-205-209-87.ftth.glasoperator.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-01 21:23:17 +0000arahael(~arahael@60-242-185-235.tpgi.com.au) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-09-01 21:23:45 +0000gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-09-01 21:24:16 +0000tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2022-09-01 21:26:56 +0000mima(~mmh@aftr-62-216-207-192.dynamic.mnet-online.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-01 21:35:44 +0000rockymarine(~rocky@user/rockymarine) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-09-01 21:36:48 +0000 <sm> ghc-options: something something ?
2022-09-01 21:37:40 +0000arahael(~arahael@124.168.113.77)
2022-09-01 21:43:12 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-01 21:47:21 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-09-01 21:50:20 +0000tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-09-01 21:50:51 +0000arahael(~arahael@124.168.113.77) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-09-01 21:51:06 +0000Kaipei(~Kaiepi@142.68.249.28)
2022-09-01 21:51:44 +0000 <janus> some invocations of ghc-options are only specific to the target though.. so i may need 'ghc-options: "$globals": ...'
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2022-09-01 21:54:01 +0000jinsun(~jinsun@user/jinsun) (Killed (silver.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)))
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2022-09-01 23:43:15 +0000takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-01 23:45:34 +0000pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5)
2022-09-01 23:47:24 +0000jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-09-01 23:48:12 +0000tdbtwlt^(~tdbtwlt@c-73-237-184-20.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-09-01 23:48:54 +0000mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5ce3:8500::a1ec)
2022-09-01 23:54:50 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91)
2022-09-01 23:56:37 +0000aaron[m]1234(~aaronvarg@2001:470:69fc:105::db5e)
2022-09-01 23:58:32 +0000Guest8526(~Guest85@2601:602:a080:fa0::54ff)
2022-09-01 23:59:17 +0000matthewmosior(~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)