2022/06/28

2022-06-28 00:00:34 +0200gnyeki(~gnyeki@user/gnyeki)
2022-06-28 00:02:47 +0200misterfish(~misterfis@ip214-130-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-06-28 00:03:12 +0200pseigo_(~pseigo@node-1w7jr9ye7hx4fsjarlsl1lkjw.ipv6.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-06-28 00:05:50 +0200johnsoar(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
2022-06-28 00:05:50 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 00:08:24 +0200 <moonsheep> geekosaur: Isn't TypeRep just an alias for SomeTypeRep?
2022-06-28 00:09:26 +0200 <geekosaur> mm, maybe it is these days, I haven't done much with the type-indexed version
2022-06-28 00:09:40 +0200 <geekosaur> (TypeRep is more complex than it used to be)
2022-06-28 00:09:52 +0200johnsoar(~arj0019@162.218.254.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 00:10:03 +0200johnsoar(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
2022-06-28 00:10:19 +0200 <moonsheep> Btw, I am trying to do something very similar to ExtensibleState, but in my case I want to make it serializable.
2022-06-28 00:10:38 +0200 <moonsheep> And the only piece left is serializing the TypeRep
2022-06-28 00:11:04 +0200 <geekosaur> ours is serializeable, and in fact that's the point of that ticket I linked
2022-06-28 00:11:16 +0200johnsoar(~arj0019@162.218.254.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 00:11:23 +0200johnsoar(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
2022-06-28 00:11:23 +0200 <geekosaur> right now what we serialize isn't quite typesafe because it omits module names
2022-06-28 00:11:40 +0200 <moonsheep> Yeah but it's not unserializable right?
2022-06-28 00:11:46 +0200 <moonsheep> I mean of course I can just use the string representation I guess
2022-06-28 00:11:50 +0200 <geekosaur> so if two modules define the same type name, ghc will internally disambiguate with module names but our serialization won't
2022-06-28 00:11:54 +0200 <moonsheep> I wanted to avoid that but if push comes to shove
2022-06-28 00:12:12 +0200 <geekosaur> because we push ExtensibleState across to another xmonad on mod-q
2022-06-28 00:12:23 +0200 <geekosaur> so there is a deserialization on the other side
2022-06-28 00:12:40 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
2022-06-28 00:12:58 +0200 <moonsheep> In this commit? https://github.com/liskin/xmonad/commit/e658e953cb3834befce70ce1ca44f76e4aec9fd7
2022-06-28 00:13:09 +0200michalz(~michalz@185.246.204.101) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-06-28 00:13:14 +0200alp(~alp@user/alp)
2022-06-28 00:13:52 +0200 <geekosaur> the last hunk, in readStateFile, yes
2022-06-28 00:14:52 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 00:15:03 +0200 <geekosaur> mm, actually I think we may key by the TypeRep as a String so the serialization part isn't a problem for us
2022-06-28 00:15:04 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
2022-06-28 00:15:20 +0200Flonk(~Flonk@134.255.252.174) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2022-06-28 00:15:26 +0200 <moonsheep> Ah I missed that
2022-06-28 00:15:36 +0200 <geekosaur> if you're trying to reconstruct a type from the TypeRep, you're outside the realm of TypeRep and need to go Data or Generic
2022-06-28 00:15:36 +0200Flonk(~Flonk@vps-zap441517-1.zap-srv.com)
2022-06-28 00:15:37 +0200 <moonsheep> Yeah it does look like it
2022-06-28 00:15:44 +0200 <moonsheep> Right
2022-06-28 00:16:14 +0200fweht(uid404746@id-404746.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2022-06-28 00:16:25 +0200 <moonsheep> Yeah I might just transform everything to strings
2022-06-28 00:16:34 +0200 <moonsheep> In my case collisions aren't super critical
2022-06-28 00:16:46 +0200johnsoar(~arj0019@162.218.254.7) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-06-28 00:17:26 +0200 <geekosaur> a more general version of what we do is available in the dependent-map package
2022-06-28 00:17:49 +0200 <geekosaur> the key specifies the type of the value
2022-06-28 00:17:52 +0200redmp(~redmp@mobile-166-170-36-30.mycingular.net)
2022-06-28 00:18:11 +0200 <moonsheep> I didn't know of that package
2022-06-28 00:18:35 +0200 <moonsheep> So it's just like using existential types but you don't have to deal with TypeReps directly?
2022-06-28 00:21:38 +0200 <moonsheep> I guess for now I'll just sprinkle some `show`s around
2022-06-28 00:22:50 +0200geekosaurwonders if QuickLook means some of those functions can go away (the ones that are flipped)
2022-06-28 00:23:03 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
2022-06-28 00:24:11 +0200azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-06-28 00:24:19 +0200 <geekosaur> it's based on https://hackage.haskell.org/package/dependent-sum-0.7.1.0/docs/Data-Dependent-Sum.html#t:DSum
2022-06-28 00:24:36 +0200 <geekosaur> so a GADT, or a type-tagged value (Data.Tagged), etc.
2022-06-28 00:24:41 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
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2022-06-28 01:00:45 +0200 <maralorn> I am currently using the monoid instance of Text a lot in a performance critical component of my program. What is the standard recommendation to speed that up? I would like to use linear-builder but I am neither on text 2.0, yet.
2022-06-28 01:02:07 +0200 <maralorn> It is my understanding that something like `foo <> " " <> bar` creates unnecessary copies.
2022-06-28 01:03:25 +0200 <hpc> use https://hackage.haskell.org/package/text-2.0/docs/Data-Text-Lazy-Builder.html and convert at the end?
2022-06-28 01:04:07 +0200 <hpc> or rather, https://hackage.haskell.org/package/text-1.2.5.0/docs/Data-Text-Lazy-Builder.html
2022-06-28 01:04:24 +0200 <maralorn> hpc: You mean: Convert to strict-Text at the end?
2022-06-28 01:04:30 +0200 <hpc> yeah
2022-06-28 01:05:26 +0200 <hpc> assuming you aren't mixing appending and some kind of big traversals
2022-06-28 01:05:37 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 01:05:50 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
2022-06-28 01:06:02 +0200 <maralorn> What do you mean with big traversals?
2022-06-28 01:06:36 +0200 <hpc> lazy text is a linked list of chunks, and you can imagine each chunk is going to be one of your appends
2022-06-28 01:07:02 +0200 <hpc> it's not quite String, but still might be painful for random access in the middle of your algorithm
2022-06-28 01:07:46 +0200 <maralorn> Ah, you mean I shouldn‘t use it when I plan to inspect results in between?
2022-06-28 01:08:03 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 01:08:05 +0200johnsoar(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
2022-06-28 01:08:07 +0200Topsi(~Topsi@ip5f5ae328.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2022-06-28 01:08:46 +0200 <hpc> yeah
2022-06-28 01:08:54 +0200johnsoar(~arj0019@162.218.254.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 01:09:00 +0200 <maralorn> sensible.
2022-06-28 01:09:10 +0200johnsoar(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
2022-06-28 01:09:14 +0200 <maralorn> I will keep that in mind.
2022-06-28 01:12:50 +0200 <maralorn> Huh, I wonder if one could implement one of those nice quasi quoter interpolation packages to target a Text Builder.
2022-06-28 01:15:44 +0200 <EvanR> when I hear, appending a lot of Text so need a builder, I think, man I wonder if the thing that finally uses the big Text could consume it lazily
2022-06-28 01:16:59 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@esm-84-240-99-143.netplaza.fi) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-06-28 01:19:32 +0200 <EvanR> (probably not, for whatever reason xD)
2022-06-28 01:19:47 +0200 <maralorn> EvanR: Complicated. I am printing the output to the terminal at ~10 times per second, to prevent flickering it’s important that the calculation of the output has been finished before clearing the screen. (At least I think that’s important.) That’s why I force the whole output before printing anyways.
2022-06-28 01:20:26 +0200 <EvanR> printing specifically can consume lazily
2022-06-28 01:21:37 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:385b:a633:1677:81b1) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-06-28 01:21:51 +0200 <maralorn> EvanR: I know. The problem is that parts of the generation of the output can be computation intensive. And I don‘t want that computation to happen while printing after I have cleared the screen because I fear the user might see the pause.
2022-06-28 01:22:12 +0200 <EvanR> how do you clear the screen before it gets printed
2022-06-28 01:23:04 +0200 <maralorn> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ansi-terminal-0.11.3/docs/System-Console-ANSI.html#g:6
2022-06-28 01:23:06 +0200moonsheep(~user@user/moonsheep) (Quit: ERC 5.4 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 28.1))
2022-06-28 01:25:18 +0200 <maralorn> I had been using clearFromCursorToScreenEnd, but users complained that in some terminals that increases flickering so now I use a loop doing clearLine cursorUp. It’s stupid but apparently fixed the flickering …
2022-06-28 01:26:26 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-06-28 01:26:29 +0200 <maralorn> Anyways terminals are black magic. In the end I have not found a solution to control when exactly a terminal triggers a redraw. I thought I could fix it by setting stdout to BlockBuffering but it still sometimes redraws at will in inoportune moments …
2022-06-28 01:26:36 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@esm-84-240-99-143.netplaza.fi)
2022-06-28 01:27:44 +0200 <hpc> if the whole screen changes, there might just not be much you can do about it
2022-06-28 01:28:12 +0200 <hpc> when i scroll rapidly in irssi i can see the disjoint screen refreshes
2022-06-28 01:28:15 +0200johnsoar(~arj0019@162.218.254.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 01:28:23 +0200johnsoar(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
2022-06-28 01:28:49 +0200 <hpc> but also my screen taskbar ticks the time without messing anything up, so maybe you can get away with refreshing just specific parts of the screen?
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2022-06-28 01:28:55 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
2022-06-28 01:28:57 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
2022-06-28 01:29:09 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 01:29:17 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
2022-06-28 01:29:28 +0200 <maralorn> hpc: That’s my experience too, as long as it’s only about a third of the screen flickering is small, if I redraw a lot it get’s harder.
2022-06-28 01:29:28 +0200 <hpc> at which point https://hoogle.haskell.org/?hoogle=curses might help
2022-06-28 01:29:33 +0200Alex_test(~al_test@178.34.160.206) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-06-28 01:29:58 +0200 <hpc> terminal rendering is just generally quite slow
2022-06-28 01:30:04 +0200 <maralorn> Yeah, that is possible in principle but in my case really hard to achieve.
2022-06-28 01:30:27 +0200 <maralorn> My main problem ist, that I still want the terminal to have a consistent scroll back buffer in the end.
2022-06-28 01:30:52 +0200AlexZenon(~alzenon@178.34.160.206) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-06-28 01:30:55 +0200causal(~user@50.35.83.177)
2022-06-28 01:31:18 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:385b:a633:1677:81b1)
2022-06-28 01:31:19 +0200 <maralorn> So what I do is I print logs, print my statusbar at the bottom, clear the status bar, print more logs, print the statusbar again, etc …
2022-06-28 01:31:30 +0200 <hpc> hmm
2022-06-28 01:31:31 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 01:31:40 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
2022-06-28 01:31:44 +0200 <hpc> look at how less/more do it maybe?
2022-06-28 01:31:56 +0200 <hpc> iirc they have the sort of scrollback you describe... somehow
2022-06-28 01:31:56 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 01:32:05 +0200 <EvanR> terminal rendering is pretty fast when it's linux emergency console xD
2022-06-28 01:32:06 +0200 <hpc> maybe only more does, i don't know how scrolling back up would work
2022-06-28 01:32:10 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
2022-06-28 01:32:29 +0200 <EvanR> that's the only way bbdemo the ascii art demo would run well
2022-06-28 01:33:48 +0200 <maralorn> EvanR: True, more seems to do it somehow. Although it doesn‘t have to deal with so many redraws.
2022-06-28 01:35:30 +0200Alex_test(~al_test@178.34.160.206)
2022-06-28 01:35:48 +0200AlexZenon(~alzenon@178.34.160.206)
2022-06-28 01:36:00 +0200 <maralorn> Ah, well more does not allow scrolling up, only down. That’s very easy no magic involved. The only need to clear and redraw the one line at the bottom and that’s quite tame.
2022-06-28 01:36:11 +0200 <maralorn> My problem is that my "statusbar" can fill up to a half of the terminal.
2022-06-28 01:36:19 +0200 <geekosaur> less just redraws the older part
2022-06-28 01:36:23 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 01:36:28 +0200 <maralorn> Ah, sorry wrong highlight. I meant hpc.
2022-06-28 01:36:29 +0200 <geekosaur> (to scroll "backwards")
2022-06-28 01:36:33 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
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2022-06-28 01:39:19 +0200 <maralorn> It is my summary, that unless there are deeper cross-terminal ways to interact with the terminal than ansii codes that the only way to achieve a consistent backlog is to regularly print newlines at the bottom of the screen to move the lines at the top of the screen out of the terminal. But that means that every log line moves my statusbar away from were it was, so I need to redraw it completely.
2022-06-28 01:39:24 +0200kimjetwav(~user@2607:fea8:2340:da00:cb6e:c5ea:ab85:281d)
2022-06-28 01:39:40 +0200 <maralorn> I‘d love to be proven wrong, though.
2022-06-28 01:39:56 +0200 <geekosaur> <ESC>[r
2022-06-28 01:40:09 +0200 <geekosaur> set the scroll area to the area above the "statusbar"
2022-06-28 01:40:36 +0200 <geekosaur> (more precisely, <ESC>[1;<lineno>r)
2022-06-28 01:41:05 +0200 <geekosaur> where <lineno> is the line above the start of the status area, remembering it's 1-based
2022-06-28 01:44:23 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 01:44:32 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
2022-06-28 01:46:11 +0200mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5ce3:8500::4588)
2022-06-28 01:47:50 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 01:48:03 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
2022-06-28 01:57:06 +0200 <geekosaur> and if I needed to update the status area, <esc>7 to save status, position into the status area, do my update, then <esc>8 to pop status
2022-06-28 01:57:25 +0200 <geekosaur> mm, make that save/restore state to avoid confusion with your status area
2022-06-28 01:57:42 +0200 <geekosaur> state includes scrolling area, cursor position, and a number of other things
2022-06-28 01:59:39 +0200 <maralorn> geekosaur: Are you saying there is a way with which I can save the state for a part of the screen then scroll the rest and then restore that part of the screen? Because that’s ultimately what I want.
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2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200Sciencentistguy(~sciencent@hacksoc/ordinary-member) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200tomgus1(~tomgus1@2a02:c7e:4229:d900:dea6:32ff:fe3d:d1a3) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200rembo10(~rembo10@main.remulis.com) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200Guest1698(~Guest1698@20.83.116.49) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200lambdabot(~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200cross(~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200qwedfg(~qwedfg@user/qwedfg) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200leah2(~leah@vuxu.org) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200gff(~gff@user/gff) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200hamishmack(sid389057@id-389057.hampstead.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200edr(~edr@user/edr) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200c_wraith(~c_wraith@adjoint.us) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200welterde(welterde@thinkbase.srv.welterde.de) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200acidsys(~crameleon@openSUSE/member/crameleon) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200thonkpod_(~thonkpod@user/thonkpod) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200bastelfreak(~bastelfre@basteles-bastelknecht.bastelfreak.org) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200emergence(emergence@2607:5300:60:5910:dcad:beff:feef:5bc) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200marienz(marienz@libera/staff/marienz) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200NemesisD(sid24071@id-24071.lymington.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200Jon(jon@dow.land) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200totbwf(sid402332@id-402332.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200aristid(sid1599@id-1599.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200teehemkay_(sid14792@id-14792.lymington.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200landonf(landonf@mac68k.info) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200Typedfern(~Typedfern@202.red-83-37-35.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:06 +0200mrkajetanp(~mrkajetan@88.98.245.28) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 02:00:13 +0200landonf(landonf@mac68k.info)
2022-06-28 02:00:16 +0200aristid(sid1599@id-1599.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 02:00:16 +0200totbwf(sid402332@id-402332.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 02:00:17 +0200edr(~edr@enlo.co)
2022-06-28 02:00:17 +0200lambdabot(~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu)
2022-06-28 02:00:17 +0200teehemkay_(sid14792@id-14792.lymington.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 02:00:18 +0200shapr(~user@2600:4040:2d31:7100:8013:8b59:ab30:ac29)
2022-06-28 02:00:19 +0200APic(apic@apic.name)
2022-06-28 02:00:21 +0200rembo10(~rembo10@main.remulis.com)
2022-06-28 02:00:23 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:1209:1cd2:2f7d:b06b)
2022-06-28 02:00:23 +0200tomgus1(~tomgus1@90.218.25.145)
2022-06-28 02:00:28 +0200Typedfern(~Typedfern@202.red-83-37-35.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
2022-06-28 02:00:28 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
2022-06-28 02:00:29 +0200 <geekosaur> you don't have to save/restore the status area, it stays put
2022-06-28 02:00:31 +0200hamishmack(sid389057@id-389057.hampstead.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 02:00:33 +0200Guest1698(~Guest1698@20.83.116.49)
2022-06-28 02:00:34 +0200cross(~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net)
2022-06-28 02:00:37 +0200bastelfreak(~bastelfre@basteles-bastelknecht.bastelfreak.org)
2022-06-28 02:00:38 +0200feetwind(~mike@2406:d501::79ae:5f3e)
2022-06-28 02:00:39 +0200 <geekosaur> ypou just define the scrolling area to not include it
2022-06-28 02:00:46 +0200lambdabot(~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu) (Changing host)
2022-06-28 02:00:46 +0200lambdabot(~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot)
2022-06-28 02:00:47 +0200thonkpod_(~thonkpod@2001:19f0:ac01:b46:5400:1ff:fec7:d73d)
2022-06-28 02:00:48 +0200inversed(~inversed@05412f44.skybroadband.com)
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2022-06-28 02:00:57 +0200gff(~gff@70.56.148.67)
2022-06-28 02:00:57 +0200NemesisD(sid24071@id-24071.lymington.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 02:00:59 +0200welterde(welterde@thinkbase.srv.welterde.de)
2022-06-28 02:01:02 +0200johnsoar(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
2022-06-28 02:01:03 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 02:01:09 +0200 <geekosaur> then when you scroll stuff off the screen, your status area stays put and only the scrolling region enters the terminal scrollback
2022-06-28 02:01:10 +0200Jon(jon@dow.land)
2022-06-28 02:01:29 +0200thonkpod_(~thonkpod@2001:19f0:ac01:b46:5400:1ff:fec7:d73d) (Changing host)
2022-06-28 02:01:29 +0200thonkpod_(~thonkpod@user/thonkpod)
2022-06-28 02:01:30 +0200tomboy64(~tomboy64@2a02:2454:416:db00:ba27:ebff:fe58:73c2) (Changing host)
2022-06-28 02:01:30 +0200tomboy64(~tomboy64@user/tomboy64)
2022-06-28 02:01:30 +0200edr(~edr@enlo.co) (Changing host)
2022-06-28 02:01:30 +0200edr(~edr@user/edr)
2022-06-28 02:01:33 +0200leah2(~leah@vuxu.org)
2022-06-28 02:01:43 +0200 <geekosaur> the save/restore I mentioned is just so you don't have to figure out where the cursor is before switching over to the status area if you need to update that
2022-06-28 02:01:54 +0200c_wraith(~c_wraith@adjoint.us)
2022-06-28 02:01:55 +0200feetwindGuest585
2022-06-28 02:01:57 +0200kimjetwav(~user@2607:fea8:2340:da00:cb6e:c5ea:ab85:281d)
2022-06-28 02:02:05 +0200z0k(~z0k@206.84.143.59)
2022-06-28 02:02:13 +0200 <geekosaur> <ESC>7 will remember the cursor position and attributes etc., and <ESC>8 will restore them after you're done
2022-06-28 02:02:15 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:385b:a633:1677:81b1)
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2022-06-28 02:02:41 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2022-06-28 02:02:44 +0200nerdypepper(~nerdypepp@user/nerdypepper)
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2022-06-28 02:03:01 +0200dos__^^`(~user@2409:8a55:e215:3930:58b9:4cff:fea0:d9)
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2022-06-28 02:04:35 +0200andreas303(andreas303@ip227.orange.bnc4free.com)
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2022-06-28 02:05:50 +0200cyanide3dinner(~cyanide4d@106.201.249.151) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-06-28 02:11:51 +0200 <maralorn> Huh, crazy.
2022-06-28 02:11:56 +0200redmp(~redmp@mobile-166-170-36-30.mycingular.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-06-28 02:12:15 +0200pseigo(~pseigo@node-1w7jr9ye7hx4fsjarlsl1lkjw.ipv6.telus.net)
2022-06-28 02:13:28 +0200 <maralorn> Can you tell if the commands I wanna issue are available from the ansi-terminal package? Alternatively can you recommend some docs on this? Your advice is not completely actionable for me right now.^^
2022-06-28 02:15:26 +0200romes[m](~romesmatr@2001:470:69fc:105::2:1660) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-06-28 02:15:26 +0200Orbstheorem(~orbstheor@2001:470:69fc:105::a56) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2022-06-28 02:15:26 +0200geekosaur[m](~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-06-28 02:15:27 +0200lambda451[m](~lambda451@2001:470:69fc:105::2:1097) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-06-28 02:15:27 +0200janschneider[m](~janschnei@2001:470:69fc:105::1:7625) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-06-28 02:15:27 +0200zfnmxt(~zfnmxt@2001:470:69fc:105::2b32) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-06-28 02:15:27 +0200SridharRatnakuma(~sridmatri@2001:470:69fc:105::1c2) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-06-28 02:15:27 +0200c_aprakasa[m](~caprakasa@2001:470:69fc:105::cfd6) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-06-28 02:15:27 +0200VarikValefor[m](~varikvale@2001:470:69fc:105::a5d) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-06-28 02:15:29 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-06-28 02:16:14 +0200 <geekosaur> I was reading from the VT102 manual when I wrote that, to make sure my memory was correct. I don't know off the top of my head if ansi-terminal directly supports either scroll region or save/restore cursor
2022-06-28 02:16:22 +0200johnsoar(~arj0019@162.218.254.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 02:16:25 +0200 <geekosaur> (I'd be surprised if it didn't suppot scroll region though)
2022-06-28 02:16:40 +0200geekosaureyes matrix gateway
2022-06-28 02:16:51 +0200ARJ0019(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
2022-06-28 02:16:53 +0200Topsi(~Topsi@ip5f5ae328.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 02:17:16 +0200 <EvanR> matrix is the future
2022-06-28 02:17:21 +0200zzztin
2022-06-28 02:17:24 +0200 <EvanR> the future is intermittent
2022-06-28 02:17:25 +0200tinyin
2022-06-28 02:17:52 +0200waleee(~waleee@h-158-174-22-25.NA.cust.bahnhof.se)
2022-06-28 02:19:41 +0200kosmikus[m](~andresloe@2001:470:69fc:105::95d)
2022-06-28 02:19:49 +0200ARJ0019(~arj0019@162.218.254.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 02:20:03 +0200ARJ0019(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
2022-06-28 02:20:17 +0200 <geekosaur> hm, it supports save/restore but I don't see anything for scroll region
2022-06-28 02:21:05 +0200frost(~frost@user/frost)
2022-06-28 02:25:39 +0200 <sm> can https://hackage.haskell.org/package/concurrent-output work here ?
2022-06-28 02:26:29 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
2022-06-28 02:26:30 +0200ARJ0019(~arj0019@162.218.254.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 02:26:38 +0200 <sm> if not, there's https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ansi-terminal-game plus implementing your own scroll buffer
2022-06-28 02:26:44 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 02:27:01 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
2022-06-28 02:27:20 +0200c_aprakasa[m](~caprakasa@2001:470:69fc:105::cfd6)
2022-06-28 02:28:17 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 02:28:31 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
2022-06-28 02:29:02 +0200 <geekosaur> interesting that my matrix account is receiving but neither visible here nor able to send
2022-06-28 02:29:36 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com)
2022-06-28 02:29:36 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
2022-06-28 02:29:36 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2022-06-28 02:30:35 +0200 <geekosaur> oh, no, only from sm who's still on both. pfeh
2022-06-28 02:31:12 +0200 <maralorn> sm: Seeing that my program already works and I am just looking for potential performance improvements I don‘t think that implementing my own scrollbuffer is worth it.
2022-06-28 02:31:32 +0200geekosauris not above simply outputting escape sequences
2022-06-28 02:31:38 +0200 <sm> ah, carry on then
2022-06-28 02:31:56 +0200 <geekosaur> in fact my test program to verify the scroll lregion didn't interfere with backscroll did just that
2022-06-28 02:32:06 +0200zfnmxt(~zfnmxt@2001:470:69fc:105::2b32)
2022-06-28 02:32:10 +0200unclechu(~unclechu@2001:470:69fc:105::354)
2022-06-28 02:32:26 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:1209:1cd2:2f7d:b06b) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-06-28 02:32:26 +0200Natch(~natch@c-9e07225c.038-60-73746f7.bbcust.telenor.se) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-06-28 02:33:22 +0200Tubo[m](~tubogram@user/tubogram)
2022-06-28 02:34:06 +0200Natch(~natch@c-9e07225c.038-60-73746f7.bbcust.telenor.se)
2022-06-28 02:34:11 +0200 <geekosaur> \x1b[1;16r\x1b\&7\x1b[18;18H--- STATUS REGION ---\x1b\&8 then I had it do ls -l /usr/bin
2022-06-28 02:34:13 +0200VarikValefor[m](~varikvale@2001:470:69fc:105::a5d)
2022-06-28 02:34:39 +0200 <geekosaur> the status region stayed put, the ls scrolled in the right area and was correctly caught in scrollback
2022-06-28 02:36:00 +0200janschneider[m](~janschnei@2001:470:69fc:105::1:7625)
2022-06-28 02:36:38 +0200SridharRatnakuma(~sridmatri@2001:470:69fc:105::1c2)
2022-06-28 02:37:46 +0200 <maralorn> sm: But the ConsoleRegion stuff looks promising.
2022-06-28 02:38:07 +0200lambda451[m](~lambda451@2001:470:69fc:105::2:1097)
2022-06-28 02:38:11 +0200geekosaur[m](~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
2022-06-28 02:39:49 +0200Orbstheorem(~orbstheor@2001:470:69fc:105::a56)
2022-06-28 02:39:54 +0200JensPetersen[m](~juhp@2001:470:69fc:105::6e9)
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2022-06-28 02:41:46 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2022-06-28 02:44:59 +0200doomfume[m](~doomfumeh@2001:470:69fc:105::2:2a62)
2022-06-28 02:45:55 +0200romes[m](~romesmatr@2001:470:69fc:105::2:1660)
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2022-06-28 02:50:08 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a301:3d00:39df:1c4b:8a55:48d3) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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2022-06-28 03:42:46 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2022-06-28 03:44:55 +0200bitdex_(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2022-06-28 03:47:09 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2022-06-28 03:47:15 +0200 <maralorn> maerwald: I remember you told me something about a terminal printing library that you had a bad experience with. Was that https://hackage.haskell.org/package/concurrent-output ?
2022-06-28 03:48:12 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@esm-84-240-99-143.netplaza.fi) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2022-06-28 03:53:45 +0200quarkyalice(~alice@user/quarkyalice) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-06-28 03:53:54 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@esm-84-240-99-143.netplaza.fi)
2022-06-28 04:03:21 +0200 <maralorn> Oh, no! In the end concurrent-output also clears the complete status region, writes the log and writes the status region again. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/concurrent-output-1.10.16/docs/src/System.Console.Regions.html…
2022-06-28 04:03:47 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@esm-84-240-99-143.netplaza.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 04:04:29 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@esm-84-240-99-143.netplaza.fi)
2022-06-28 04:04:53 +0200 <maralorn> It only does smart things to avoid redraws when we don‘t print new log lines. But it also looks like a lot of overhead to me, so not sure if it’s worth it.
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2022-06-28 05:48:10 +0200 <[Leary]> @tell fizbin When it says "applicative functors", it's loosely referring to the arbitrary applicative functor parameter `f`. It should perhaps just be "A monoid on @f@." The key detail is that parametricity in `a` forces the monoid to be entirely on the structure of `f`, independent of `a`. This implies nice properties like `fmap g` distributing over `<|>`. And imo, if there's another sane choice of Monoid for `f a`, it shouldn't be the
2022-06-28 05:48:10 +0200 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
2022-06-28 05:48:10 +0200 <[Leary]> same as the Alternative on `f`; that's just waste in redundancy.
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2022-06-28 05:56:17 +0200 <[Leary]> It's also worth noting that there's already a monoid on `f`, as implied by it having Applicative, so Alternative is indeed "an alternative monoid on f".
2022-06-28 05:56:21 +0200perrierjouet(~perrier-j@modemcable012.251-130-66.mc.videotron.ca)
2022-06-28 05:56:47 +0200jargon(~jargon@184.101.186.108)
2022-06-28 05:57:05 +0200 <[Leary]> Though I don't think that's where the name comes from.
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2022-06-28 10:13:48 +0200PiDelport(uid25146@id-25146.lymington.irccloud.com)
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2022-06-28 10:15:31 +0200matijja(~matijja@193.77.181.201) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2022-06-28 10:18:18 +0200matijja(~matijja@193.77.181.201)
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2022-06-28 10:20:55 +0200gensyst(gensyst@user/gensyst)
2022-06-28 10:21:39 +0200 <gensyst> After I write putStr something is there a way to "go back" and find out the last couple of characters that were output in the past?
2022-06-28 10:24:48 +0200Haskelytic(~Haskelyti@118.179.211.17) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-06-28 10:27:39 +0200 <lortabac> gensyst: no, you have to implement your own alternative IO with this capability
2022-06-28 10:27:51 +0200 <sm> I don't think so gensyst , you'd have to keep that history yourself
2022-06-28 10:27:58 +0200odnes(~odnes@109-178-137-84.pat.ren.cosmote.net) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-06-28 10:28:45 +0200vglfr(~vglfr@coupling.penchant.volia.net)
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2022-06-28 10:30:44 +0200YoungFrog(~youngfrog@2a02:a03f:c21b:f900:812e:6c05:83db:6853)
2022-06-28 10:35:23 +0200acidjnk_new3(~acidjnk@dynamic-046-114-169-226.46.114.pool.telefonica.de)
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2022-06-28 10:53:02 +0200cosimone(~user@93-44-186-171.ip98.fastwebnet.it) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2022-06-28 10:57:59 +0200 <gensyst> thanks mates
2022-06-28 10:58:39 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-97.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
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2022-06-28 10:59:42 +0200Guest3137(~jinsun@user/jinsun) (Killed (sodium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)))
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2022-06-28 11:00:05 +0200vglfr(~vglfr@coupling.penchant.volia.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2022-06-28 11:13:01 +0200ccntrq(~Thunderbi@2a01:c22:8d91:d900:4e57:141f:f3f3:6614)
2022-06-28 11:15:32 +0200mon_aaraj(~MonAaraj@user/mon-aaraj/x-4416475) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-06-28 11:18:15 +0200Polo(~Gambino@user/polo) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-06-28 11:18:15 +0200`2jt(~jtomas@141.red-88-17-65.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
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2022-06-28 11:20:04 +0200mon_aaraj(~MonAaraj@user/mon-aaraj/x-4416475)
2022-06-28 11:20:06 +0200 <`2jt> Hi, I'm constructing aeson object with `object` and every pair value is a string. However, I must wrap each of it into ("key" .= ("some value" :: T.Text)). Is there a way to make the compiler make this decision automatically?
2022-06-28 11:22:44 +0200malte(~malte@mal.tc)
2022-06-28 11:23:12 +0200mrkajetanp(~mrkajetan@88.98.245.28) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2022-06-28 11:26:18 +0200zwro[m](~zwromatri@2001:470:69fc:105::1d4) (Quit: You have been kicked for being idle)
2022-06-28 11:26:26 +0200mrkajetanp(~mrkajetan@2a01:4b00:ea36:6c00:7994:941c:3f5d:2b88)
2022-06-28 11:30:47 +0200christiansen(~christian@83-95-137-75-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-06-28 11:31:05 +0200 <aforemny> `2jt: as the second argument of (.=) is a constrained type variable, i don't think it is possible. you have to specify its type, as `"some value"` can be of any type that implements the `IsString` type class
2022-06-28 11:31:05 +0200alexhandy(~trace@user/trace) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 11:31:15 +0200misterfish(~misterfis@ip214-130-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl)
2022-06-28 11:31:19 +0200alexhandy(~trace@user/trace)
2022-06-28 11:31:53 +0200 <lyxia> you could define a specialized version of it
2022-06-28 11:31:56 +0200liz(~liz@host86-159-158-175.range86-159.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2022-06-28 11:32:17 +0200 <aforemny> `2jt: you can probably define a helper function `stringField :: KeyValue kv => Key -> T.Text -> kv` or something
2022-06-28 11:32:53 +0200Polo(~Gambino@user/polo)
2022-06-28 11:36:13 +0200 <`2jt> thank you guys
2022-06-28 11:37:35 +0200ccntrq(~Thunderbi@2a01:c22:8d91:d900:4e57:141f:f3f3:6614) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2022-06-28 11:40:38 +0200ccntrq(~Thunderbi@dynamic-077-008-042-123.77.8.pool.telefonica.de)
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2022-06-28 11:50:30 +0200leah2(~leah@vuxu.org) (Quit: trotz alledem!)
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2022-06-28 11:52:32 +0200DemiMarieObenour(~alwayscur@2001:470:69fc:105::4886) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 11:52:32 +0200sm(~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 11:56:42 +0200Polo(~Gambino@user/polo) (Killed (platinum.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)))
2022-06-28 11:56:53 +0200 <carbolymer> what was the name of `~` ? type equality?
2022-06-28 11:57:13 +0200jean-paul[m](~jean-paul@2001:470:69fc:105::d1ab)
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2022-06-28 11:57:13 +0200DemiMarieObenour(~alwayscur@2001:470:69fc:105::4886)
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2022-06-28 12:03:15 +0200 <pavonia> carbolymer: Yes
2022-06-28 12:03:41 +0200 <carbolymer> pavonia: where can I read more on that? I don't know when I need type equality
2022-06-28 12:04:19 +0200siraben(~siraben@user/siraben) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-06-28 12:04:32 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a18e:bc95:1523:62c) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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2022-06-28 12:04:52 +0200sm(~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-06-28 12:05:05 +0200 <pavonia> When you want to give a hint to the compiler where types are/should be equal
2022-06-28 12:05:26 +0200Guillaum[m](~guiboumat@2001:470:69fc:105::1:72ac) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-06-28 12:05:26 +0200DemiMarieObenour(~alwayscur@2001:470:69fc:105::4886) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-06-28 12:05:52 +0200jonathanx(~jonathan@h-178-174-176-109.A357.priv.bahnhof.se)
2022-06-28 12:06:34 +0200mon_aaraj(~MonAaraj@user/mon-aaraj/x-4416475) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 12:07:06 +0200 <pavonia> It's usually necessary with type families of the form `Fam a ~ b` to indicate that the result of applying Fam to a should result in b
2022-06-28 12:07:46 +0200dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.5)
2022-06-28 12:08:05 +0200 <carbolymer> and why not `Fam b => b` ?
2022-06-28 12:08:38 +0200mon_aaraj(~MonAaraj@user/mon-aaraj/x-4416475)
2022-06-28 12:09:07 +0200 <pavonia> I guess that would only work if Fam b would result in a type constraint again
2022-06-28 12:09:08 +0200raym(~raym@user/raym) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-06-28 12:09:22 +0200 <pavonia> or would be a type class in the first place
2022-06-28 12:09:53 +0200rodental(~rodental@38.146.5.222) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-06-28 12:10:08 +0200rodental(~rodental@38.146.5.222)
2022-06-28 12:10:36 +0200Orbstheorem(~orbstheor@2001:470:69fc:105::a56)
2022-06-28 12:11:20 +0200qwedfg(~qwedfg@user/qwedfg)
2022-06-28 12:11:49 +0200Haskelytic(~Haskelyti@118.179.211.17)
2022-06-28 12:12:10 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@125x103x176x34.ap125.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-06-28 12:12:36 +0200kuribas(~user@ptr-17d51ema4ez152mpbt2.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
2022-06-28 12:13:13 +0200geekosaur[m](~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
2022-06-28 12:14:19 +0200 <pavonia> carbolymer: e.g. consider `foo :: Fam a ~ Int => a -> Int`. We don't care what `a` is in this case, but we make sure that the result of `a` applied to type family `Fam` results in an Int
2022-06-28 12:14:49 +0200 <carbolymer> oooh
2022-06-28 12:14:54 +0200 <carbolymer> now it's clear
2022-06-28 12:15:00 +0200 <carbolymer> pavonia: thanks
2022-06-28 12:15:07 +0200 <pavonia> No problem
2022-06-28 12:15:19 +0200 <jackdk> `2jt: turn off `{-# LANGUAGE OverloadedStrings #-}` (frustrating, but it means that the sting literal must be `[Char]` and then instance selection becomes unambiguous) or (the idiom I usually use `foo .= String "bar"` (as the data constructor `String :: Text -> Value` gives GHC enough info to solve)
2022-06-28 12:16:34 +0200baaash[m](~baaashmat@2001:470:69fc:105::2:1e90)
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2022-06-28 12:19:57 +0200 <aforemny> jackdk: i don't see how turning off overloaded strings helps because there is no `ToJson String` instance, and `String "bar"` should work in presence of overloaded strings as well
2022-06-28 12:21:05 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2022-06-28 12:22:29 +0200 <aforemny> jackdk: the `String : Text -> Value` is a good point though! one might also use `T.pack : String -> Text`
2022-06-28 12:23:39 +0200 <jackdk> aforemny: Via `instance ToJSON Char` and `instance ToJSON a => ToJSON [a]`; note that `class ToJSON` has a `toJSONList :: [a] -> Value` method
2022-06-28 12:23:53 +0200 <jackdk> aforemny: You are correct that the `String` trick does not require disabling `-XOverloadedStrings`
2022-06-28 12:23:54 +0200Nate[m](~m52957mat@2001:470:69fc:105::1:591a)
2022-06-28 12:23:56 +0200ereslibre[m](~ereslibre@2001:470:69fc:105::1:8f90)
2022-06-28 12:24:07 +0200 <jackdk> % toJSON "Hello"
2022-06-28 12:24:07 +0200 <yahb2> <interactive>:60:1: error: ; Variable not in scope: toJSON :: [Char] -> t
2022-06-28 12:24:11 +0200polo(~Gambino@user/polo)
2022-06-28 12:24:13 +0200 <jackdk> % :m + Data.Aeson
2022-06-28 12:24:13 +0200 <yahb2> <no location info>: error: ; Could not find module ‘Data.Aeson’ ; Perhaps you meant Data.Version (from base-4.14.3.0)
2022-06-28 12:24:18 +0200 <jackdk> ah well
2022-06-28 12:24:44 +0200doomfume[m](~doomfumeh@2001:470:69fc:105::2:2a62)
2022-06-28 12:24:58 +0200 <jackdk> aforemny: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/cw0O2Lkw/toJSON-string.txt
2022-06-28 12:25:39 +0200gensyst(gensyst@user/gensyst) (Quit: Leaving)
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2022-06-28 12:31:12 +0200fgaz(~fgaz@2001:470:69fc:105::842)
2022-06-28 12:31:17 +0200 <aforemny> jackdk: oh, then it does make sense to drop overloaded strings. my bad! i cannot find the `ToJSON String` instance and thought it would not follow from `ToJSON Char` and `ToJSON a => ToJSON [a]`..
2022-06-28 12:31:17 +0200teo(~teo@user/teo)
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2022-06-28 12:32:11 +0200 <jackdk> Yeah I could be wrong that it doesn't need both instances; it might just be using `toJSONList @Char`
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2022-06-28 12:50:53 +0200 <dminuoso> Disabling aeson instances via cabal flags. Is this a good idea?
2022-06-28 12:51:30 +0200 <dminuoso> That is, they would be enabled by default, but in case you dont want to drag in aeson, you could disable it via a flag. While it cant be placed in the .cabal file, at least individual projects can reduce dependency footprint.
2022-06-28 12:51:47 +0200 <dminuoso> maerwald: I know you have some strong feelings about flags, how about this usage?
2022-06-28 12:55:47 +0200christiansen(~christian@152.115.131.42) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2022-06-28 13:13:49 +0200ncopa(~ncopa@gbr2-dev1.alpinelinux.org) (Alpine Linux, the security-oriented, lightweight Linux distribution)
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2022-06-28 13:28:32 +0200Kevin578(~Kevin578@pool-173-76-179-30.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2022-06-28 13:28:42 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv)
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2022-06-28 13:32:12 +0200 <maerwald[m]> dminuoso: disabling API via flags doesn't break packages at least
2022-06-28 13:32:32 +0200 <maerwald[m]> If the default is really enabled
2022-06-28 13:35:31 +0200 <maerwald[m]> You'd still have to make sure your package compiles with the default flags if it's. The only pitfall could be imports I think
2022-06-28 13:35:51 +0200z0k(~z0k@206.84.143.59)
2022-06-28 13:35:51 +0200z0k(~z0k@206.84.143.59) (Client Quit)
2022-06-28 13:36:02 +0200 <maerwald[m]> When another package/import provides the disabled API
2022-06-28 13:37:14 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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2022-06-28 14:28:48 +0200Polomoney
2022-06-28 14:29:39 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@dynamic-046-114-169-226.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-06-28 14:49:28 +0200 <carbolymer> Did you guys have any weird experiences with CMS GC (-xn) on GHC 8? It seems whenever I turn it on, our E2E tests start to failing randomly (and very rarely) in CI with "connection refused" errors (the server is in Haskell).
2022-06-28 14:54:07 +0200Ram-Z(Ram-Z@2a01:7e01::f03c:91ff:fe57:d2df) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-06-28 15:05:06 +0200mrmonday(~robert@what.i.hope.is.not.a.tabernaevagant.es) (Quit: .)
2022-06-28 15:06:23 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
2022-06-28 15:06:58 +0200mrmonday(~robert@what.i.hope.is.not.a.tabernaevagant.es)
2022-06-28 15:11:23 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
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2022-06-28 16:17:01 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2022-06-28 16:17:28 +0200bitdex_(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-06-28 16:20:40 +0200`2jt(~jtomas@141.red-88-17-65.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-06-28 16:21:51 +0200king_gs(~Thunderbi@2806:103e:29:a4ff:9938:ec1d:a54a:6688) (Quit: king_gs)
2022-06-28 16:22:29 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
2022-06-28 16:23:54 +0200 <DGMrKong> Did I accidentally fill this chat with IRC error messages all night? I just got back and my console is filled with them :(
2022-06-28 16:24:46 +0200 <geekosaur> no more than anyone else, from my backscroll
2022-06-28 16:24:53 +0200 <merijn> If you had someone would've probably kicked or quited you :p
2022-06-28 16:24:58 +0200 <merijn> *quieted
2022-06-28 16:25:46 +0200 <DGMrKong> yea, I guess they were client side errors. I have one every few seconds for the past 12 hours
2022-06-28 16:26:04 +0200 <DGMrKong> I should probably dc next time lol
2022-06-28 16:26:12 +0200arjun(~arjun@user/arjun) (Quit: tip toe-ing my way outta here)
2022-06-28 16:27:02 +0200DGMrKongARJ0019
2022-06-28 16:27:03 +0200 <geekosaur> we have a log you can consult if you want to see what's been going on (check the /topic)
2022-06-28 16:27:40 +0200dos__^^`(~user@2409:8a55:e215:3930:58b9:4cff:fea0:d9) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2022-06-28 16:38:01 +0200dostoevsky(~5c42c5384@user/dostoevsky)
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2022-06-28 16:48:27 +0200money(~Gambino@user/polo) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2022-06-28 18:13:38 +0200money(~Gambino@user/polo) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2022-06-28 18:33:15 +0200jinsun__(~jinsun@user/jinsun)
2022-06-28 18:33:15 +0200jinsun(~jinsun@user/jinsun) (Killed (zirconium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)))
2022-06-28 18:33:15 +0200jinsun__jinsun
2022-06-28 18:40:29 +0200DGMrKong(~arj0019@162.218.254.7)
2022-06-28 18:40:29 +0200ARJ0019(~arj0019@162.218.254.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2022-06-28 20:22:03 +0200 <Boarders__> could someone remind me how you pass a custom type of a library in haskell?
2022-06-28 20:22:26 +0200 <Boarders__> e.g. the ordered-keymap in aeson (I don't need this flag specifically, just want to know how you do it)
2022-06-28 20:23:41 +0200 <[exa]> "how you pass a custom type of a library" ... to where do you want to pass it?
2022-06-28 20:24:08 +0200 <Boarders__> sorry that was meant to read flag
2022-06-28 20:24:21 +0200 <merijn> Boarders__: from where?
2022-06-28 20:24:38 +0200 <merijn> Boarders__: Should just be -fflagname on the commandline
2022-06-28 20:25:05 +0200pseigo(~pseigo@d108-173-20-33.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-06-28 20:25:21 +0200 <[exa]> ah a flag, yes
2022-06-28 20:25:23 +0200 <Boarders__> so I could put -fordered-keymap in ghc-options in cabal?
2022-06-28 20:25:54 +0200 <geekosaur> it's not a ghc option, it's a Cabal option. stack and cabal have slightly different ways of doing it
2022-06-28 20:26:11 +0200 <[exa]> you may like constraints: as in https://stackoverflow.com/questions/23523869/is-there-any-way-to-define-flags-for-cabal-dependenci…
2022-06-28 20:26:13 +0200Kevin578(~Kevin578@pool-173-76-179-30.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2022-06-28 20:27:16 +0200 <Boarders__> what is the cabal way of doing it?
2022-06-28 20:28:47 +0200 <geekosaur> the link [exa] gave you shows both stack and cabal ways
2022-06-28 20:28:54 +0200jgeerds(~jgeerds@55d45f48.access.ecotel.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2022-06-28 20:29:44 +0200 <[exa]> btw the answer "you cannot do this with cabal" is probably no longer valid there
2022-06-28 20:30:00 +0200 <geekosaur> it was once true, but then the cabal.project way was added
2022-06-28 20:30:16 +0200 <geekosaur> sadly a bunch of stackers think cabal's still on 1.24
2022-06-28 20:30:34 +0200 <[exa]> let's add a comment :]
2022-06-28 20:31:04 +0200 <geekosaur> one of the answres above that one already says this (that it used to be true but then cabal.project way was added)
2022-06-28 20:31:24 +0200 <geekosaur> possibly it should be downvoted though now that it's false
2022-06-28 20:31:45 +0200 <[exa]> well I can edit it
2022-06-28 20:32:07 +0200yrlnry(~yrlnry@pool-108-2-150-109.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
2022-06-28 20:32:09 +0200 <[exa]> ah no, but I can ask people to edit :]
2022-06-28 20:33:19 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a18e:bc95:1523:62c) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-06-28 20:34:25 +0200 <Boarders__> thanks for the help all
2022-06-28 20:35:15 +0200 <[exa]> yw :]
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2022-06-28 20:42:18 +0200 <shiraeeshi[m]> there is an exercise about red-black trees that I don't understand
2022-06-28 20:42:24 +0200`2jt(~jtomas@141.red-88-17-65.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
2022-06-28 20:42:44 +0200 <shiraeeshi[m]> it's an exercise 3.10 (b) from "Purely functional data structures"
2022-06-28 20:43:24 +0200 <shiraeeshi[m]> (a) is about splitting the balance function to two: lbalance and rbalance
2022-06-28 20:43:57 +0200 <shiraeeshi[m]> (b) says:
2022-06-28 20:44:34 +0200 <shiraeeshi[m]> Extending the same logic one step further, one of the remaining tests on the grandchildren is also unnecessary. Rewrite "ins" so that it never tests the color of nodes not on the search path.
2022-06-28 20:45:18 +0200 <shiraeeshi[m]> here is a source code of RedBlackSet: https://imgur.com/a/oIlSxgf
2022-06-28 20:46:00 +0200mc47(~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47)
2022-06-28 20:46:25 +0200 <shiraeeshi[m]> I can't find the unnecessary test, where is it?
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2022-06-28 22:01:36 +0200Las[m](~lasmatrix@2001:470:69fc:105::74e) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 22:01:36 +0200desklamp[m](~desklampm@2001:470:69fc:105::77b8) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 22:01:36 +0200Artem[m](~artemtype@2001:470:69fc:105::75b) (*.net *.split)
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2022-06-28 22:01:36 +0200SridharRatnakuma(~sridmatri@2001:470:69fc:105::1c2) (*.net *.split)
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2022-06-28 22:01:36 +0200romes[m](~romesmatr@2001:470:69fc:105::2:1660) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 22:01:36 +0200steve[m](~stevetrou@2001:470:69fc:105::e0b) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 22:01:36 +0200moats(~oats@user/oats) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 22:01:36 +0200DemiMarieObenour(~alwayscur@2001:470:69fc:105::4886) (*.net *.split)
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2022-06-28 22:01:36 +0200ManofLetters[m](~manoflett@2001:470:69fc:105::3be) (*.net *.split)
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2022-06-28 22:01:37 +0200b20n(sid115913@id-115913.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
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2022-06-28 22:01:37 +0200Arsen(arsen@managarm/dev/Arsen) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 22:01:37 +0200dfg(dfg@user/dfg) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 22:01:37 +0200cods(~fred@82-65-232-44.subs.proxad.net) (*.net *.split)
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2022-06-28 22:01:37 +0200tomjaguarpaw(~tom@li367-225.members.linode.com) (*.net *.split)
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2022-06-28 22:01:38 +0200robertm(robertm@lattice.rojoma.com) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 22:01:38 +0200dequbed(~dequbed@banana-new.kilobyte22.de) (*.net *.split)
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2022-06-28 22:01:38 +0200s4msung(anUIaa0rBw@user/s4msung) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 22:01:38 +0200hook54321(sid149355@user/hook54321) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 22:01:38 +0200hays(rootvegeta@fsf/member/hays) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 22:01:38 +0200taktoa[c](sid282096@2a03:5180:f::4:4df0) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 22:01:38 +0200AndreasK(sid320732@2a03:5180:f:5::4:e4dc) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 22:01:38 +0200bbhoss(sid18216@2a03:5180:f::4728) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 22:01:38 +0200mrianbloom(sid350277@2a03:5180:f:3::5:5845) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 22:01:38 +0200Hobbyboy(Hobbyboy@hobbyboy.co.uk) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 22:01:38 +0200Axman6(~Axman6@user/axman6) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 22:01:38 +0200tubogram44(~tubogram@user/tubogram) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 22:01:38 +0200superbil(~superbil@1-34-176-171.hinet-ip.hinet.net) (*.net *.split)
2022-06-28 22:03:05 +0200alp(~alp@user/alp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-06-28 22:04:53 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2022-06-28 22:08:23 +0200atwm(~atwm@81.28.193.19)
2022-06-28 22:09:13 +0200bitmapper(uid464869@id-464869.lymington.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 22:11:34 +0200pseigo(~pseigo@d108-173-20-33.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-06-28 22:12:47 +0200inversed(~inversed@5.65.47.68)
2022-06-28 22:14:31 +0200shreyasminocha_(51fdc93eda@user/shreyasminocha)
2022-06-28 22:14:32 +0200Arsen_(arsen@managarm/dev/Arsen)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200glguy(x@libera/staff/glguy)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200raym(~raym@user/raym)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200kjak(~kjak@pool-108-31-68-111.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200lambda451[m](~lambda451@2001:470:69fc:105::2:1097)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200marinelli[m](~marinelli@2001:470:69fc:105::2d8)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200shiraeeshi[m](~shiraeesh@2001:470:69fc:105::1:77)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200jchia[m](~jchiamatr@2001:470:69fc:105::c50b)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200kosmikus[m](~andresloe@2001:470:69fc:105::95d)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200geekosaur[m](~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200goran[m](~goranoour@2001:470:69fc:105::2:1b44)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200vladan[m](~vladanmat@2001:470:69fc:105::2:24df)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Etxeberrialex[m](~etxeberri@2001:470:69fc:105::1:5ae6)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200steshaw[m](~steshawma@2001:470:69fc:105::1:a963)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200ereslibre[m](~ereslibre@2001:470:69fc:105::1:8f90)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200vbeatrice[m](~vbeatrice@2001:470:69fc:105::3ebf)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Clinton[m](~clintonme@2001:470:69fc:105::2:31d4)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200polykernel[m](~polykerne@user/polykernel)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200hochata(~hochata@user/hochata)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Nate[m](~m52957mat@2001:470:69fc:105::1:591a)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200amesgen[m](~amesgenm]@2001:470:69fc:105::82b)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200coltenwebb[m](~coltenweb@2001:470:69fc:105::2:17c7)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200baaash[m](~baaashmat@2001:470:69fc:105::2:1e90)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200boxscape(~boxscape@user/boxscape)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200luke-clifton[m](~luke-clif@2001:470:69fc:105::2:3122)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200cdsmith(~cdsmithma@2001:470:69fc:105::284)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Player-205[m](~sashaserp@2001:470:69fc:105::2:30b8)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200unclechu(~unclechu@2001:470:69fc:105::354)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200lyiriyah[m](~lyiriyahm@2001:470:69fc:105::cc0)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Artem[m](~artemtype@2001:470:69fc:105::75b)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200SridharRatnakuma(~sridmatri@2001:470:69fc:105::1c2)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Bulby[m](~bulbyvrma@2001:470:69fc:105::1:fe0a)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Tisoxin(~ikosit@user/ikosit)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Orbstheorem(~orbstheor@2001:470:69fc:105::a56)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Tubo[m](~tubogram@user/tubogram)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200doomfume[m]1(~doomfumem@2001:470:69fc:105::2:2a64)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200doomfume[m](~doomfumeh@2001:470:69fc:105::2:2a62)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200bitonic(~bitonic@2001:470:69fc:105::1812)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200jean-paul[m](~jean-paul@2001:470:69fc:105::d1ab)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Las[m](~lasmatrix@2001:470:69fc:105::74e)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200desklamp[m](~desklampm@2001:470:69fc:105::77b8)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200sibnull[m](~sibnullma@2001:470:69fc:105::1:1291)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Matthew|m(~arathorn@2001:470:69fc:105::1f)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200jneira[m](~jneiramat@2001:470:69fc:105::d729)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Guillaum[m](~guiboumat@2001:470:69fc:105::1:72ac)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Deide(~deide@user/deide)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200steve[m](~stevetrou@2001:470:69fc:105::e0b)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200ormaaj(~ormaaj@user/ormaaj)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200JensPetersen[m](~juhp@2001:470:69fc:105::6e9)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200sjanssen(~sjanssenm@2001:470:69fc:105::1:61d8)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200romes[m](~romesmatr@2001:470:69fc:105::2:1660)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200moats(~oats@user/oats)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200thewaves(~thewaves@2001:470:69fc:105::2:2eef)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200jinsun_(~jinsun@user/jinsun)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200maerwald[m](~maerwaldm@2001:470:69fc:105::1ee)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200jmcantrell(~jmcantrel@user/jmcantrell)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200vaibhavsagar[m](~vaibhavsa@2001:470:69fc:105::ffe)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200DemiMarieObenour(~alwayscur@2001:470:69fc:105::4886)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200fendor[m](~fendormat@2001:470:69fc:105::fcbd)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200janschneider[m](~janschnei@2001:470:69fc:105::1:7625)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200ManofLetters[m](~manoflett@2001:470:69fc:105::3be)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200chreekat(~chreekat@2001:470:69fc:105::16b5)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200cony_mony[m](~conymonym@2001:470:69fc:105::2:2ea2)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200c_aprakasa[m](~caprakasa@2001:470:69fc:105::cfd6)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200smichel17[m](~smichel17@2001:470:69fc:105::2d32)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200july541[m](~july541ma@2001:470:69fc:105::1:e416)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200siraben(~siraben@user/siraben)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200ongy[m](~ongymatri@2001:470:69fc:105::5018)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200alexfmpe[m](~alexfmpem@2001:470:69fc:105::38ba)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Christoph[m](~hpotsirhc@2001:470:69fc:105::2ff8)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200psydroid(~psydroid@user/psydroid)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200sm(~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200zfnmxt(~zfnmxt@2001:470:69fc:105::2b32)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Yehoshua(~yehoshua@2001:470:69fc:105::1:593f)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200reza[m](~rezaphone@2001:470:69fc:105::3eda)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200maralorn(~maralorn@2001:470:69fc:105::251)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200ericson2314(~ericson23@2001:470:69fc:105::70c)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200VarikValefor[m](~varikvale@2001:470:69fc:105::a5d)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200peddie(~peddie@2001:470:69fc:105::25d)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200fgaz(~fgaz@2001:470:69fc:105::842)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200jonathanx(~jonathan@h-178-174-176-109.A357.priv.bahnhof.se)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200BusConscious(~martin@ip5f5bdf0d.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-97.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200YoungFrog(~youngfrog@2a02:a03f:c21b:f900:812e:6c05:83db:6853)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200matijja(~matijja@193.77.181.201)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a301:3d00:39df:1c4b:8a55:48d3)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200elkcl(~elkcl@broadband-37-110-156-162.ip.moscow.rt.ru)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200chomwitt(~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc1c:800:5c71:ba1b:727c:3afe)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200funsafe(~funsafe@2601:1c1:4200:9ac:84cb:185c:2a3c:c92c)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200edr(~edr@user/edr)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200koz(~koz@121.99.240.58)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200sayola1(~vekto@dslb-088-078-152-210.088.078.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Colere(~colere@about/linux/staff/sauvin)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200mtjm(~mutantmel@2604:a880:2:d0::208b:d001)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Axman6(~Axman6@user/axman6)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200koolazer(~koo@user/koolazer)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200marienz(marienz@libera/staff/marienz)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200adium(adium@user/adium)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200nerdypepper(~nerdypepp@user/nerdypepper)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200mcfrdy(~mcfrdy@user/mcfrdy)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200c_wraith(~c_wraith@adjoint.us)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200NemesisD(sid24071@id-24071.lymington.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200tomboy64(~tomboy64@user/tomboy64)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200tomgus1(~tomgus1@90.218.25.145)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200shapr(~user@2600:4040:2d31:7100:8013:8b59:ab30:ac29)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200teehemkay_(sid14792@id-14792.lymington.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200lambdabot(~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200totbwf(sid402332@id-402332.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200aristid(sid1599@id-1599.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200landonf(landonf@mac68k.info)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200AlexZenon(~alzenon@178.34.160.206)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Alex_test(~al_test@178.34.160.206)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200yahb2(~yahb2@2a01:4f8:c0c:5c7b::2)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Raito_Bezarius(~Raito@wireguard/tunneler/raito-bezarius)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200AkechiShiro(~licht@user/akechishiro)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200finsternis(~X@23.226.237.192)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200madnight(~madnight@static.59.103.201.195.clients.your-server.de)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200polux(~polux@51-15-169-172.rev.poneytelecom.eu)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200lyxia(~lyxia@poisson.chat)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200superbil(~superbil@1-34-176-171.hinet-ip.hinet.net)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200fryguybob(~fryguybob@cpe-74-67-169-145.rochester.res.rr.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200stefan-_(~cri@42dots.de)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200caasih(sid13241@id-13241.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200triteraflops(~triterafl@user/triteraflops)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200aeka(~aeka@user/hiruji)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200MironZ(~MironZ@nat-infra.ehlab.uk)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200maerwald(~maerwald@user/maerwald)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Henkru(henkru@kapsi.fi)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Teacup(~teacup@user/teacup)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200avpx(~nick@ec2-54-214-223-1.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200bliminse(~bliminse@host86-164-164-134.range86-164.btcentralplus.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200kitty3(~kitty@096-039-147-043.res.spectrum.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Me-me(~me-me@user/me-me)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Hash(~Hash@tunnel686959-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200conjunctive_(sid433686@id-433686.helmsley.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200carter(sid14827@id-14827.helmsley.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200bjs(sid190364@user/bjs)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200gregberns__(sid315709@helmsley.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200eax_(6ba2dd7b84@user/eax/x-8810663)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200tnks(sid412124@helmsley.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200forell(~forell@user/forell)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200shinjipf(~shinjipf@2a02:c207:2082:6685::1)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200[_________](~oos95GWG@user/oos95GWG)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200xsarnik(xsarnik@lounge.fi.muni.cz)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200tureba(~tureba@tureba.org)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200andjjj23_(~irc@107.170.228.47)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200asm(~alexander@user/asm)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200canta(~canta@user/canta)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200robbert-vdh(~robbert@robbertvanderhelm.nl)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200bonz060_(~quassel@2001:bc8:47a4:a23::1)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200ralu1(~ralu@static.211.245.203.116.clients.your-server.de)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Adran(adran@botters/adran)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200koala_man(~vidar@157.146.251.23.bc.googleusercontent.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200b20n(sid115913@id-115913.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200lightandlight(sid135476@2a03:5180:f:1::2:1134)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200bradparker(sid262931@id-262931.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200poljar(~poljar@93-139-81-189.adsl.net.t-com.hr)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200integral(sid296274@user/integral)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200meejah(~meejah@rutas.meejah.ca)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200liskin(~liskin@xmonad/liskin)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200lieven(~mal@ns2.wyrd.be)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200acacia(~alloca@user/suppi)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Firedancer(sid336191@id-336191.hampstead.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Kamuela(sid111576@id-111576.tinside.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200gmc(sid58314@id-58314.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200edwardk(sid47016@haskell/developer/edwardk)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Athas(athas@sigkill.dk)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200pierrot(~pi@user/pierrot)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200beaky(~beaky@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::1e:a001)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200acertain(sid470584@id-470584.hampstead.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200saolsen(sid26430@id-26430.lymington.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200alanz(sid110616@id-110616.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200sclv(sid39734@haskell/developer/sclv)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200ix(~ix@2a02:8010:674f:0:d65d:64ff:fe52:5efe)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200earthy(~arthurvl@2a02-a469-f5e2-1-ba27-ebff-fea0-40b0.fixed6.kpn.net)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200ddb(~ddb@ipv6two.tilde.club)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200dmj`(sid72307@id-72307.hampstead.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200acarrico(~acarrico@dhcp-68-142-48-19.greenmountainaccess.net)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200anderson(~ande@user/anderson)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200averell(~averell@user/averell)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Unhammer(~Unhammer@user/unhammer)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200swistak-(~swistak@185.21.216.141)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200dsal(sid13060@id-13060.lymington.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200davetapley_(sid666@id-666.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200jkoshy(99b9359beb@user/jkoshy)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200jleightcap(7bc4014b62@user/jleightcap)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200raghavgururajan(ea769b8000@user/raghavgururajan)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200sm2n(ae95cb1267@user/sm2n)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200shreyasminocha(51fdc93eda@user/shreyasminocha)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200b0o(0e4a0bf4c9@2604:bf00:561:2000::1bf)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200ymherklotz(cb2c9cfbdd@2604:bf00:561:2000::29a)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200fvr(ef3e56ca8b@2604:bf00:561:2000::3c4)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200evanrelf(3addc196af@2604:bf00:561:2000::f0)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200whez(sid470288@id-470288.lymington.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200Ankhers(e99e97ef8e@2604:bf00:561:2000::2a2)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200kvakil(6f76c3db2e@2604:bf00:561:2000::40a)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200jakzale(6291399afa@user/jakzale)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200dawdler_(035b60b5aa@2604:bf00:561:2000::3b6)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200bookshelfdave(sid28102@id-28102.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2022-06-28 22:14:45 +0200fluffyballoon(45ce440a48@2604:bf00:561:2000::e2)
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2022-06-28 22:33:14 +0200Haskelytic(~Haskelyti@118.179.211.17)
2022-06-28 22:33:40 +0200 <Haskelytic> fellas i'm wondering how you guys ensure typeclass laws are satisfied for your types?
2022-06-28 22:33:52 +0200 <Haskelytic> do you write tests?
2022-06-28 22:33:59 +0200 <Haskelytic> do you sit down and prove it by hand
2022-06-28 22:34:00 +0200mstksg(~jle`@cpe-23-240-75-236.socal.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2022-06-28 22:34:38 +0200 <Rembane> I write them and hope for the best.
2022-06-28 22:35:16 +0200mstksg(~jle`@cpe-23-240-75-236.socal.res.rr.com)
2022-06-28 22:35:40 +0200 <monochrom> I proved simple ones by hand.
2022-06-28 22:36:00 +0200 <Haskelytic> Rembane: Feels-based programming needs to be a thing :)
2022-06-28 22:36:15 +0200 <Haskelytic> @monoch
2022-06-28 22:36:15 +0200 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
2022-06-28 22:36:32 +0200 <Haskelytic> monochrom: For the non-trivial ones?
2022-06-28 22:36:43 +0200 <maerwald> Haskelytic https://hackage.haskell.org/package/checkers
2022-06-28 22:37:10 +0200 <Rembane> Haskelytic: Absolutely! :)
2022-06-28 22:37:18 +0200xf00b4r(~soukenka@104-217.internetbox.cz) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-06-28 22:38:22 +0200coot(~coot@213.134.190.95)
2022-06-28 22:38:38 +0200 <monochrom> Some of the non-trivial ones are compositions of simple ones, and the compositions preserve laws.
2022-06-28 22:38:45 +0200 <Haskelytic> Rembane: I just googled "feels based programming" and found this https://github.com/kulics-works/feel
2022-06-28 22:39:01 +0200 <Rembane> Haskelytic: It's the future! :)
2022-06-28 22:39:10 +0200 <Haskelytic> maerwald: Oh damn I hadn't thought of checking lol...thanks!
2022-06-28 22:39:16 +0200 <monochrom> Some others are complicated encodings of trival ones.
2022-06-28 22:40:03 +0200 <Haskelytic> monochrom: Nice I forgot I could just build on top of simpler ones
2022-06-28 22:40:37 +0200 <Haskelytic> Rembane: Maybe someone should write a manifesto ;)
2022-06-28 22:41:30 +0200cyanide3dinner(~cyanide4d@106.201.249.151) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-06-28 22:42:39 +0200 <Rembane> Haskelytic: I think that's taking it too far, I prefer to code in the shadows. :)
2022-06-28 22:42:49 +0200Kevin578(~Kevin578@pool-173-76-179-30.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2022-06-28 22:42:51 +0200quarkyalice(~alice@user/quarkyalice)
2022-06-28 22:42:58 +0200 <Rembane> Haskelytic: BTW, if you want to have much fun you can write QuickCheck properties that check that your instances are lawful.
2022-06-28 22:45:13 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net)
2022-06-28 22:45:22 +0200 <Haskelytic> Rembane: I'm gonna do that but I'm having trouble understanding how quickcheck does function arbitraries
2022-06-28 22:45:31 +0200 <Haskelytic> :/
2022-06-28 22:45:49 +0200 <Haskelytic> One at a time I suppose
2022-06-28 22:46:09 +0200 <Rembane> Haskelytic: Generating functions is always a bit messy.
2022-06-28 22:47:00 +0200alp(~alp@user/alp)
2022-06-28 22:49:46 +0200 <Haskelytic> Yeah if only computation was simple
2022-06-28 22:50:47 +0200 <Haskelytic> This little bit of nugget in the quickcheck paper was very interesting for a noob like me
2022-06-28 22:51:44 +0200 <Haskelytic> they were like, we want Gen (a->b) which is Int -> Rand -> a -> b and rearrange "parameters" to get a -> Int -> Rand -> b = a -> Gen b
2022-06-28 22:51:52 +0200Polo(~Gambino@user/polo)
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2022-06-28 22:52:14 +0200 <Haskelytic> thinking with types feels like the magic of algebra all over again
2022-06-28 22:52:32 +0200tfeb(~tfb@88.98.95.237) (Quit: died)
2022-06-28 22:52:34 +0200 <Haskelytic> you just do these formal manipulations and voila, you're closer to a solution to your problem
2022-06-28 22:52:54 +0200 <Haskelytic> no need for brain cells :)
2022-06-28 22:53:04 +0200coot(~coot@213.134.190.95) (Quit: coot)
2022-06-28 22:53:15 +0200 <monochrom> This is why I am not fond of "understand and have intuition before doing it formally"
2022-06-28 22:53:20 +0200 <mrianbloom> Is there a large project that uses GADTs for an expression language?
2022-06-28 22:53:45 +0200 <monochrom> Unpopular opinion: Sometimes you do it formally first and then you see new understanding and intuition.
2022-06-28 22:53:55 +0200 <Rembane> monochrom: I thought you did algebra instead.
2022-06-28 22:53:58 +0200 <arj0019> on that topic, are there any good resources that demonstrate how to build complex type systems in Haskell? I find myself attempting to implement OOP features without realizing it.
2022-06-28 22:54:29 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-28-31.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
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2022-06-28 22:55:23 +0200 <arj0019> I did find a really good video on applying DSL for a trading card game. Still looking for more resources like that.
2022-06-28 22:55:41 +0200disco-dave[m](~disco-dav@2001:470:69fc:105::2:1892)
2022-06-28 22:56:13 +0200alexhandy(~trace@user/trace) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 22:56:18 +0200 <yin> cabal init doesnt let me create a project if one with the same name already exists in hackage?
2022-06-28 22:56:19 +0200 <EvanR> for a lot of common go-to "OOP features" there are good non-OOP functional replacements
2022-06-28 22:56:32 +0200alexhandy(~trace@user/trace)
2022-06-28 22:56:49 +0200 <EvanR> for example implementation inheritance => first class functions or just, use functions
2022-06-28 22:58:22 +0200brettgilio(~brettgili@c9yh.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-06-28 22:58:39 +0200 <arj0019> EvanR: I completely agree. My trouble is not recognizing that some aspects of my domain concept are OO in nature.
2022-06-28 22:59:39 +0200 <monochrom> Easy translation between OO and FP: x.f <-> f x
2022-06-28 22:59:42 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-28-31.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-06-28 22:59:47 +0200 <arj0019> EvanR: I have not been able to find a good resource documenting the design process of a complex functional type system and DSL.
2022-06-28 23:00:24 +0200lottaquestions(~nick@S0106a84e3f794893.ca.shawcable.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-06-28 23:01:01 +0200 <EvanR> for a model complex functional type system which can be used with DSLs, as a starting point, there's simply typed lambda calculus xD
2022-06-28 23:01:56 +0200brettgilio(~brettgili@c9yh.net)
2022-06-28 23:02:09 +0200brettgilio(~brettgili@c9yh.net) (Client Quit)
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2022-06-28 23:03:09 +0200brettgilio(~brettgili@c9yh.net)
2022-06-28 23:03:14 +0200 <arj0019> for example, I have wanted to create the following: an interface `factor' that requires implementation of `rank' and `rate' that both operate on a list of datas
2022-06-28 23:03:56 +0200 <arj0019> each factor would implement `rate' and `rank' differently, and ideally I could combine factors with +, -, / to make a new factor
2022-06-28 23:04:16 +0200 <arj0019> I have no idea how to do this yet tho. It kinda smells like a monoid
2022-06-28 23:04:40 +0200 <monochrom> A field has + - /
2022-06-28 23:04:57 +0200lottaquestions(~nick@S0106a84e3f794893.ca.shawcable.net)
2022-06-28 23:05:08 +0200 <arj0019> i will add field to my research list
2022-06-28 23:05:24 +0200 <arj0019> this is `Algebra/Field'?
2022-06-28 23:05:26 +0200lottaquestions(~nick@S0106a84e3f794893.ca.shawcable.net) (Client Quit)
2022-06-28 23:05:28 +0200 <monochrom> yes
2022-06-28 23:05:28 +0200 <arj0019> this is `Algebra.Field'?
2022-06-28 23:05:43 +0200lottaquestions(~nick@S0106a84e3f794893.ca.shawcable.net)
2022-06-28 23:06:02 +0200alexhandy(~trace@user/trace) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-06-28 23:06:45 +0200 <monochrom> We need not be formal about whether "Algebra/Field" or "Algebra.Field" is better.
2022-06-28 23:06:49 +0200 <EvanR> to implement the (not really OO) concept of a uniform interface that has many implementations, first try making a record of functions
2022-06-28 23:07:24 +0200 <EvanR> rather a record type corresponding to the interface, doesn't have to have all functions in it
2022-06-28 23:07:42 +0200alexhandy2(~trace@user/trace) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-06-28 23:07:44 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a18e:bc95:1523:62c) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-06-28 23:08:02 +0200alexhandy(~trace@user/trace)
2022-06-28 23:08:17 +0200 <arj0019> EvanR: I understand record syntax and its implementation, but I do not see why to implement it for this purpose
2022-06-28 23:08:36 +0200 <EvanR> e.g. a field over a could have a zero::a, one::a, add::a -> a -> a, times::a -> a -> a, inverse :: a -> a
2022-06-28 23:08:37 +0200 <monochrom> An object is a record of functions.
2022-06-28 23:08:43 +0200Polomoney
2022-06-28 23:08:55 +0200 <EvanR> ok, too many `a's
2022-06-28 23:09:36 +0200 <monochrom> BTW GHC also translates "Ord a => ..." to "Record of Ord functions -> ..." too.
2022-06-28 23:09:36 +0200yrlnry(~yrlnry@pool-108-2-150-109.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-06-28 23:10:08 +0200 <monochrom> So now both Java's notion of "interface" and Haskell's notion of "interface" are records of functions.
2022-06-28 23:10:28 +0200 <monochrom> There is some poetic justice in that.
2022-06-28 23:10:49 +0200 <EvanR> haskell is java from an alternate 90s timeline
2022-06-28 23:11:05 +0200 <Rembane> There are some examples on typeclasses vs record of functions here: https://www.haskellforall.com/2012/05/scrap-your-type-classes.html
2022-06-28 23:11:12 +0200 <monochrom> public class Ord where :)
2022-06-28 23:11:20 +0200 <Rembane> And some strong opinions too
2022-06-28 23:11:32 +0200 <arj0019> EvanR: how does this differ from using `instance'. IMO, `instance' may be better as it allows me to create some arbitrary thing and then just add on `rate' and `rank'
2022-06-28 23:11:46 +0200 <EvanR> it's similar but different, probably that link says more
2022-06-28 23:12:02 +0200 <EvanR> another good one is "type classes vs the world" (video)
2022-06-28 23:12:13 +0200 <arj0019> thank you for the refrences
2022-06-28 23:12:44 +0200 <arj0019> to be clear, you dont think my idea of implementing `instance' is crazy OO in this case?
2022-06-28 23:12:56 +0200 <monochrom> But Haskell classes adds a coherence benefit that manually passing around records doesn't have.
2022-06-28 23:13:05 +0200 <Rembane> arj0019: It is. Try not to.
2022-06-28 23:13:16 +0200 <EvanR> that's basically the difference, global coherence
2022-06-28 23:13:46 +0200 <Rembane> I wonder if the discussion on initial encoding vs final encoding would be enlightening or just confusing
2022-06-28 23:14:16 +0200 <dolio> That's not going to be helpful.
2022-06-28 23:14:28 +0200 <monochrom> I realized it when I taught students how do you express the type of a sorting function most polymorphically. It can't be "[a] -> [a]" but it can't be "[Int] -> [Int]" either.
2022-06-28 23:14:41 +0200 <arj0019> Rembane: can you expand on why you feel that way about my implementation of `instance', but potentially not the same for `EQ' or `Show'?
2022-06-28 23:15:12 +0200 <monochrom> I spontaneously came up with "like C's qsort but safer, I can always do (a -> a -> Bool) -> [a] -> [a]"
2022-06-28 23:15:28 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a18e:bc95:1523:62c)
2022-06-28 23:15:31 +0200 <monochrom> Then the next thought was "oh wait so why do we need Ord again?"
2022-06-28 23:15:59 +0200 <monochrom> "Ah imagine I call BST insert then BST lookup but I give them different comparators by mistake"
2022-06-28 23:16:48 +0200`2jt(~jtomas@141.red-88-17-65.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-06-28 23:17:24 +0200 <Rembane> arj0019: Because Eq and Show are already there, they won't steer your thinking too much. But if you remove the typeclass tool from your toolbox until you've explored all the other tools it won't work as a shortcut to OO concepts.
2022-06-28 23:18:44 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-06-28 23:19:18 +0200merijn(~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-06-28 23:19:56 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2022-06-28 23:21:16 +0200 <arj0019> Rembane: it is interesting that there is resistance to using `instance' when that is how you implement things like `EQ', `Show', or even something big like `Functor'. But like you said, those types already exist
2022-06-28 23:21:31 +0200 <arj0019> this will require a major rethink :(
2022-06-28 23:21:39 +0200 <dolio> There isn't resistance to using type classes.
2022-06-28 23:21:56 +0200 <dolio> There is resistance to just directly translating OO design into type classes.
2022-06-28 23:22:24 +0200 <monochrom> What is "`instance'"?
2022-06-28 23:22:43 +0200 <dolio> If you are just coming from OO programming, and prone to thinking that way, and just translate that into type classes, you will be developing habits that are considered bad.
2022-06-28 23:23:19 +0200 <monochrom> Also, Functor is not big, it has just one method.
2022-06-28 23:23:26 +0200 <Rembane> arj0019: OTOH, if you need polymorphism, typeclasses might be useful, but don't use them as the everything-looks-like-a-nail-hammer
2022-06-28 23:24:04 +0200 <dolio> Eq/Ord is actually rather unlike the equivalent OO design.
2022-06-28 23:24:05 +0200 <monochrom> "when all you have is acetone, everything looks like nail polish" :)
2022-06-28 23:24:26 +0200 <Rembane> Shiny! :D
2022-06-28 23:24:44 +0200 <monochrom> Now, "when all you have is superglue..." >:)
2022-06-28 23:24:49 +0200 <dolio> That is, it is like passing around a comparator object, not like having your types implement an 'Equatable' interface or something.
2022-06-28 23:26:02 +0200moneypolo
2022-06-28 23:27:09 +0200 <arj0019> dolio: I may not have been clear on my intentions. I want to create a `factor' (that is potentially a combination of `factor's) that will either `rate' or `rank' a list of datas
2022-06-28 23:27:41 +0200 <arj0019> or maybe it is better to say that the factor provides the functions used for rating and ranking
2022-06-28 23:27:52 +0200 <sclv> yin: correct
2022-06-28 23:28:16 +0200 <arj0019> either way, I think that I see the bad things more clearly now
2022-06-28 23:28:38 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea)
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2022-06-28 23:29:02 +0200 <dolio> To be honest, I don't find that description clear. :)
2022-06-28 23:29:21 +0200 <geekosaur> another useful thing to consider with respect to typeclasses is that it's strongly preferred that they have testable laws (typically they can't be part of the typeclass though). if you can't phrase reasonable laws for your typeclass, there's a decent chance that a typeclass is the wrong tool
2022-06-28 23:29:49 +0200 <dolio> But if you have learned something from the conversation, that's good. :)
2022-06-28 23:29:59 +0200 <Rembane> arj0019: I think you can have a great start by writing functions that do that and if you need to use those functions for more than one type you could put them in a typeclass. I think it's a good idea to keep the code as simple as possible for as long as possible.
2022-06-28 23:30:31 +0200 <geekosaur> Functor, for example, has laws such that there's either zero or one valid Functor for any type.
2022-06-28 23:30:49 +0200 <geekosaur> (also, if it's not keyed off a type, a typeclass isn't the right tool)
2022-06-28 23:31:48 +0200 <dolio> Yeah, that's also a good point. Preemptively overloading everything is not necessarily the right strategy.
2022-06-28 23:32:02 +0200 <monochrom> lambdabot has my quote about premature generalization, yeah
2022-06-28 23:33:13 +0200 <arj0019> my over all goal: given a list of datas, run some function that will return the datas ordered by best to worst (rate is the same, but has a non-constant scale for weighting). I would also like to create a way to combine multiple rate (or rank) functions to build a more complex analysis
2022-06-28 23:34:05 +0200christiansen(~christian@83-95-137-75-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-06-28 23:34:07 +0200 <geekosaur> that doesn't sound like a typeclass, then, since your combined functions would use the same types as the uncombined ones. I'd go with record-of-functions and specify a way to compose them
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2022-06-28 23:34:52 +0200 <arj0019> geekosaur: your not the only one to reccomend that, so I will definately research it.
2022-06-28 23:35:46 +0200 <yin> sclv: has this always been the case or have i just been lucky?
2022-06-28 23:36:03 +0200 <sclv> been the case for a very long time
2022-06-28 23:36:11 +0200 <arj0019> Anyways, I don't want to take over the chat for too long so i am going to go do some research on your suggestions. ty
2022-06-28 23:36:25 +0200 <geekosaur> that's what the chat is here for 🙂
2022-06-28 23:37:08 +0200 <geekosaur> very long discussions may occasionally be redirected to e.g. #haskell-in-depth, if there's a lot of other stuff going on at the same time
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