2021/07/10

2021-07-10 00:02:04 +0200Atum_(~IRC@user/atum/x-2392232)
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2021-07-10 00:13:25 +0200HarveyPwca(~HarveyPwc@2601:246:c180:a570:29df:3b00:ad0e:3a06)
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2021-07-10 00:28:43 +0200jmorris(uid433911@id-433911.stonehaven.irccloud.com)
2021-07-10 00:31:46 +0200 <Digit> :)
2021-07-10 00:32:42 +0200hpc(~juzz@ip98-169-35-13.dc.dc.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-10 00:37:32 +0200Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@dslb-002-203-144-156.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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2021-07-10 00:41:44 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50)
2021-07-10 00:41:52 +0200 <zzz> weird question. does anyone know which is more performant, map or Data.IntMap.Strict.map ?
2021-07-10 00:43:03 +0200 <geekosaur> depends on what you're doing with it, last I checked
2021-07-10 00:43:18 +0200 <geekosaur> your best bet is to try them both
2021-07-10 00:43:51 +0200 <monochrom> https://www.google.com/search?q=it+depends+meme&oq=it+depends&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j69i59.2958j0j7&so…
2021-07-10 00:45:02 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-07-10 00:45:26 +0200 <zzz> figured
2021-07-10 00:47:12 +0200 <monochrom> The trilemma (right, worse than dilemma) of asking for performance advice on a free-of-charge discussion platform.
2021-07-10 00:47:30 +0200 <monochrom> If you give no context and use case, the only correct answer is "it depends".
2021-07-10 00:48:10 +0200 <monochrom> If you give partial context and use case, you risk getting wrong answers --- they would be right for the spoken partial context, but wrong for the unspoken complete context.
2021-07-10 00:48:27 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@c-73-33-197-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2021-07-10 00:48:29 +0200 <monochrom> If you give complete context, people start quoting consultant fees.
2021-07-10 00:49:10 +0200 <zzz> :)
2021-07-10 00:50:09 +0200 <zzz> i got exactly the answer i was looking for, although i was tempted to ask "depending on what?"
2021-07-10 00:50:36 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:39f3:da:7ab8:bc1e) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-10 00:51:03 +0200 <zzz> but that's just unleashed curiosity, not necessity
2021-07-10 00:52:10 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-10 00:53:33 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia)
2021-07-10 00:56:43 +0200 <smtnet3> can't you just critereon it?
2021-07-10 00:57:25 +0200 <smtnet3> zzz, ^
2021-07-10 00:57:35 +0200 <monochrom> Perhaps it was just a curiosity question, there was no code.
2021-07-10 00:57:48 +0200 <smtnet3> i see
2021-07-10 00:58:03 +0200 <monochrom> Curiosity killed the cat. Wave collapse brought it back!
2021-07-10 01:01:06 +0200 <monochrom> In this case it is really apple vs orange. If you use [], it's because you're solving a problem unsuitable for IntMap. If you use IntMap, it's because you'ree solving a problem unsuitable for [].
2021-07-10 01:01:27 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-10 01:01:58 +0200 <monochrom> If performance is more important than relevance, the () type is the most performant.
2021-07-10 01:02:02 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-07-10 01:03:19 +0200 <boxscape> I'd argue (# #) is better
2021-07-10 01:03:29 +0200 <monochrom> heh
2021-07-10 01:04:32 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@cpe-45-46-140-49.buffalo.res.rr.com)
2021-07-10 01:05:41 +0200 <smtnet3> New to haskell so I don't get that one haha
2021-07-10 01:05:53 +0200drd(~drd@2001:b07:a70:9f1f:1562:34de:f50f:77d4) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2021-07-10 01:05:55 +0200 <smtnet3> hopefully i stick around
2021-07-10 01:06:10 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-10 01:06:30 +0200 <monochrom> (# #) is something low level that's even cheaper than ().
2021-07-10 01:06:41 +0200 <smtnet3> Ah right
2021-07-10 01:07:12 +0200 <smtnet3> Oh right unboxed unit
2021-07-10 01:07:23 +0200 <smtnet3> obviously more performant than boxed unit
2021-07-10 01:07:29 +0200 <smtnet3> Interesting
2021-07-10 01:08:01 +0200slice(~slice@user/slice)
2021-07-10 01:11:20 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@118-167-64-241.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
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2021-07-10 01:23:56 +0200wolfshappen(~waff@irc.furworks.de) (Quit: later)
2021-07-10 01:24:13 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-07-10 01:24:38 +0200 <catern> uggghhhh typesystem haters can be so frustrating sometimes
2021-07-10 01:24:38 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a1-224.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-07-10 01:25:09 +0200wolfshappen(~waff@irc.furworks.de)
2021-07-10 01:25:46 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@cpe-45-46-140-49.buffalo.res.rr.com) (Quit: Exeunt)
2021-07-10 01:26:13 +0200slice(~slice@user/slice) (Quit: zzz)
2021-07-10 01:26:33 +0200 <catern> I hate when I read people confidently state that types aren't useful for distributed systems because they aren't as extensible as dynamic types (I lately send them https://lexi-lambda.github.io/blog/2020/01/19/no-dynamic-type-systems-are-not-inherently-more-open/ an extremely useful post...)
2021-07-10 01:27:13 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a1-224.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-07-10 01:27:43 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@2001:999:62:1d53:26b1:6c9b:c1ed:9c01)
2021-07-10 01:34:14 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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2021-07-10 01:35:46 +0200 <boxscape> hm, speaking of that blog post, I think -XOverloadedRecordDot will get us a bit closer in the direction of structural typing? As in, you can write `\p -> print p.name`, and it will work for any record that has a Showable name field
2021-07-10 01:35:53 +0200 <boxscape> \a -> print a.test :: (Show a, HasField "test" r a) => r -> IO ()
2021-07-10 01:36:50 +0200 <boxscape> ("closer" in the sense of ergonomics, not necessarily type theory)
2021-07-10 01:38:49 +0200 <monochrom> I respect that both distributed systems and serialization systems face the challenge of staying compatible with old versions of data formats. The answer is still not chanting "dynamic typing" as though it were a magic spell that simply casted away the problem.
2021-07-10 01:39:13 +0200 <monochrom> Dynamic or static, you still need to write the same consciously handwritten code.
2021-07-10 01:39:38 +0200 <monochrom> painstakenly earned code
2021-07-10 01:40:33 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@2001:999:62:1d53:26b1:6c9b:c1ed:9c01)
2021-07-10 01:43:37 +0200Feuermagier(~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier)
2021-07-10 01:44:45 +0200neurocyte4047(~neurocyte@46.243.81.30)
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2021-07-10 01:45:18 +0200neurocyte4047neurocyte404
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2021-07-10 01:54:48 +0200jmorris(uid433911@id-433911.stonehaven.irccloud.com) ()
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2021-07-10 02:19:00 +0200stevenxl(~stevenlei@66.63.167.105)
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2021-07-10 02:30:41 +0200safinaskar(~user@109-252-90-89.nat.spd-mgts.ru) ()
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2021-07-10 02:48:14 +0200 <zzz> monochrom: there kind of was code, i was changing `map snd $ M.toList $ M.map f m` to `map (f . snd) $ M.toList m` or something like that and I got curious on the general performance aspect of it
2021-07-10 02:50:44 +0200hmmmas(~fidnc@183.217.200.144)
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2021-07-10 02:56:01 +0200nate1(~nate@108-233-125-227.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-07-10 02:56:54 +0200 <monochrom> You are dropping the dictionary structure. Assuming that this is the intention, one of them builds an intermediate IntMap, the other builds an intermediate lazy list.
2021-07-10 02:58:24 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia)
2021-07-10 02:58:25 +0200 <monochrom> Lazy list being lazy, a consumer like print or head will cause the whole thing to stay in O(1) space. Furthermore, there is also a good chance that even the list node is optimized away by list fusion, there is not even GC pressure.
2021-07-10 02:59:15 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-10 02:59:22 +0200 <monochrom> IntMap being emphatically not lazy, and more pointers to initialize, it is not wise to build a second one unless you actually will use its IntMap nature.
2021-07-10 02:59:51 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-07-10 03:00:59 +0200 <monochrom> Lastly, M.elems exists.
2021-07-10 03:01:40 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> monochrom: just set them up to knock them down?
2021-07-10 03:02:02 +0200norias(~jaredm@c-98-219-195-163.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-07-10 03:02:10 +0200 <monochrom> Sorry, "them" = ?
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2021-07-10 03:02:59 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> the intermediates
2021-07-10 03:03:03 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvf--10EYXw
2021-07-10 03:04:08 +0200 <monochrom> No comment.
2021-07-10 03:04:14 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2021-07-10 03:04:41 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> you made me think of that ;(
2021-07-10 03:05:29 +0200ding(~ding@2001:19f0:5:14c2:5400:2ff:fee0:a42c) (Quit: oopsy)
2021-07-10 03:05:42 +0200ding(~ding@commie.space)
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2021-07-10 03:06:13 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> next time if you could make me think of something better that would be nice thanks
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2021-07-10 03:14:44 +0200Teacup(~teacup@user/teacup)
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2021-07-10 03:22:23 +0200StayHungry(~StayHungr@gateway/tor-sasl/stayhungry)
2021-07-10 03:22:39 +0200 <StayHungry> Good morning, comrades.
2021-07-10 03:24:12 +0200 <StayHungry> I am not a developer myself, however aware of little JS, Per, Python, Powershell... now there is a new thing and they say it's that different. is there a simple resource the grasp the difference?
2021-07-10 03:24:26 +0200 <StayHungry> *to grasp
2021-07-10 03:25:23 +0200 <StayHungry> E.g. you used to do these things in that way, but in Haskell you do them that way
2021-07-10 03:26:50 +0200 <StayHungry> the goal is to understand its benefits, its niche, the very why it exists and even highly paid
2021-07-10 03:28:27 +0200Teacup(~teacup@user/teacup) (Quit: Teacup)
2021-07-10 03:28:47 +0200 <dsal> It's difficult to explain without a lot of context. Relative to those you listed, you have a compiler and a good type system that.
2021-07-10 03:28:49 +0200Teacup(~teacup@user/teacup)
2021-07-10 03:29:58 +0200thyriaen(~thyriaen@45.178.73.238)
2021-07-10 03:30:18 +0200fYnch(~mike@174.127.249.180)
2021-07-10 03:30:46 +0200 <fYnch> hey all, I'm trying to include a git submodule package in a stack package using extra-deps but i cant seem to tell it how to find it
2021-07-10 03:30:47 +0200jneira_(~jneira_@28.red-80-28-169.staticip.rima-tde.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2021-07-10 03:31:05 +0200 <thyriaen> Howdy, friends - i would like to have pattern matching on a string like so ('A':s) where A can be 3 different letters, can i do pattern matching with like an or ?
2021-07-10 03:31:09 +0200 <fYnch> it's just a sub-dir
2021-07-10 03:31:18 +0200Teacup(~teacup@user/teacup) (Client Quit)
2021-07-10 03:31:39 +0200 <dsal> thyriaen: you can do that with a guard
2021-07-10 03:31:43 +0200Teacup(~teacup@user/teacup)
2021-07-10 03:32:23 +0200 <thyriaen> dsal how can i have my pattern evaluate to true ?
2021-07-10 03:32:52 +0200 <dsal> f (x:xs) | x `elem` "abc" = ...
2021-07-10 03:32:57 +0200 <thyriaen> myFunc n | n == ('A':s) --- somethng along these lins ?
2021-07-10 03:32:58 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:521d:ec00:3970:2542:2f1d:feb7) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-10 03:33:22 +0200_bin(~bin@user/bin/x-1583188) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-10 03:33:26 +0200 <thyriaen> ooooooh
2021-07-10 03:33:28 +0200bin_(~bin@user/bin/x-1583188)
2021-07-10 03:33:34 +0200 <thyriaen> thanks :)
2021-07-10 03:35:08 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:525a:ea00:9e1e:6e15:b03f:8acc)
2021-07-10 03:35:21 +0200 <thyriaen> dsal, what is the convention behind the (x:xs) btw >
2021-07-10 03:35:27 +0200 <thyriaen> what does xs stand for ?
2021-07-10 03:35:42 +0200 <dsal> Plural of x
2021-07-10 03:35:46 +0200 <dsal> X and Xs
2021-07-10 03:35:51 +0200 <thyriaen> :O
2021-07-10 03:36:03 +0200 <thyriaen> neat
2021-07-10 03:39:08 +0200Teacup(~teacup@user/teacup) (Quit: Teacup)
2021-07-10 03:39:30 +0200Teacup(~teacup@user/teacup)
2021-07-10 03:41:22 +0200beka(~beka@104-244-27-23.static.monkeybrains.net)
2021-07-10 03:42:09 +0200 <nitrix> More little conventions, you'll often see x, y, z for values, then f, g, h for functions (which are also values but with distinguishing), a, b, c for type variables, _ suffix for functions that discard their result, M suffix for monadic things, T suffix for type transformers, get/un prefix for record members, and Mk prefix for data constructors.
2021-07-10 03:42:10 +0200neurocyte4042(~neurocyte@92.119.10.140)
2021-07-10 03:42:10 +0200neurocyte4042(~neurocyte@92.119.10.140) (Changing host)
2021-07-10 03:42:10 +0200neurocyte4042(~neurocyte@user/neurocyte)
2021-07-10 03:42:22 +0200 <nitrix> worth*
2021-07-10 03:42:27 +0200hegstal(~hegstal@2a02:c7f:7604:8a00:7018:37c7:e025:203e) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-10 03:42:49 +0200 <nitrix> I'm sure there are other ones I'm forgetting.
2021-07-10 03:44:11 +0200Teacup(~teacup@user/teacup) (Client Quit)
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2021-07-10 03:45:07 +0200Teacup(~teacup@user/teacup)
2021-07-10 03:45:08 +0200 <smtnet3> dsal, good way of doing that
2021-07-10 03:45:22 +0200neurocyte404(~neurocyte@user/neurocyte) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-10 03:45:22 +0200neurocyte4042neurocyte404
2021-07-10 03:46:49 +0200Teacup(~teacup@user/teacup) (Client Quit)
2021-07-10 03:47:12 +0200Teacup(~teacup@user/teacup)
2021-07-10 03:53:44 +0200 <fYnch> nevermind, found it out
2021-07-10 03:54:04 +0200 <fYnch> :)
2021-07-10 03:55:10 +0200fYnch(~mike@174.127.249.180) (Quit: leaving)
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2021-07-10 03:57:55 +0200wei2912(~wei2912@112.199.250.21)
2021-07-10 03:59:09 +0200StayHungry(~StayHungr@gateway/tor-sasl/stayhungry) (-)
2021-07-10 04:00:33 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
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2021-07-10 04:04:02 +0200MorrowM(~MorrowM_@bzq-110-168-31-106.red.bezeqint.net)
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2021-07-10 04:05:42 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2021-07-10 04:10:20 +0200dajoer(~david@user/gvx)
2021-07-10 04:12:01 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-07-10 04:15:41 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-07-10 04:16:33 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-10 04:16:43 +0200 <phaazon> cumber?
2021-07-10 04:16:49 +0200 <phaazon> https://phaazon.net/media/uploads/shibacumber.gif
2021-07-10 04:16:56 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2021-07-10 04:17:17 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
2021-07-10 04:18:03 +0200 <phaazon> whoops, wrong window :)
2021-07-10 04:18:10 +0200 <lechner> Hi, could someone with Hackage admin access please look into my account creation problem under lechner@debian.org? Thanks!
2021-07-10 04:19:38 +0200jlamothe(~jlamothe@198.251.57.108) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-10 04:19:55 +0200andreabedini(~andreabed@8s8kj6n9tyzc511tnjb7.ip6.superloop.com) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2)
2021-07-10 04:21:45 +0200finn_elija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2021-07-10 04:21:46 +0200FinnElijaGuest8187
2021-07-10 04:21:46 +0200finn_elijaFinnElija
2021-07-10 04:21:54 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> that link just empited my bank account but the dog is so cute it was worth it
2021-07-10 04:22:03 +0200td_(~td@muedsl-82-207-238-014.citykom.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-10 04:23:52 +0200td_(~td@94.134.91.203)
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2021-07-10 04:24:59 +0200hendursaga(~weechat@user/hendursaga)
2021-07-10 04:28:32 +0200 <phaazon> lol sorry
2021-07-10 04:30:00 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a1-224.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-07-10 04:34:07 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
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2021-07-10 04:36:02 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2021-07-10 04:37:12 +0200 <mniip> does pattern matching on : play well with list fusion?
2021-07-10 04:37:21 +0200 <mniip> it doesn't does it
2021-07-10 04:37:50 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-07-10 04:38:16 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-10 04:38:32 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia)
2021-07-10 04:38:42 +0200 <monochrom> Only rewrite rules play well with list fusion.
2021-07-10 04:38:58 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-10 04:40:02 +0200 <mniip> hmm
2021-07-10 04:40:38 +0200 <mniip> does uncons fuse?
2021-07-10 04:42:00 +0200 <mniip> nope!
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2021-07-10 06:02:14 +0200theproffesor(~theproffe@user/theproffesor) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-07-10 06:04:56 +0200theproffesor(~theproffe@2601:282:847f:8010::3a29)
2021-07-10 06:05:34 +0200ordinate(~ordinate@c-68-38-144-3.hsd1.in.comcast.net)
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2021-07-10 06:06:17 +0200 <ezzieyguywuf> hot dog, I made a version of >>= and >= that work in c++ :) https://github.com/ezzieyguywuf/expected#readme
2021-07-10 06:07:33 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
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2021-07-10 06:11:19 +0200theproffesor(~theproffe@2601:282:847f:8010::3a29) (Changing host)
2021-07-10 06:11:19 +0200theproffesor(~theproffe@user/theproffesor)
2021-07-10 06:12:07 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@8.21.10.15)
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2021-07-10 06:17:07 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
2021-07-10 06:17:47 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2021-07-10 06:18:39 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@8.21.10.15) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-10 06:19:45 +0200dsaldumps haskell and moves everything to c++
2021-07-10 06:20:07 +0200 <ezzieyguywuf> 🤣
2021-07-10 06:20:32 +0200 <ezzieyguywuf> no do-notation though, and pattern matching isn't due till c++23 it looks like
2021-07-10 06:20:59 +0200 <dsal> It's neat, though.
2021-07-10 06:21:42 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
2021-07-10 06:22:43 +0200 <ezzieyguywuf> yea!
2021-07-10 06:23:35 +0200nate1(~nate@108-233-125-227.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
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2021-07-10 07:17:51 +0200StayHungry(~StayHungr@gateway/tor-sasl/stayhungry)
2021-07-10 07:18:40 +0200StayHungry(~StayHungr@gateway/tor-sasl/stayhungry) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-10 07:18:52 +0200FragByte(~christian@user/fragbyte) (Quit: Quit)
2021-07-10 07:19:19 +0200StayHungry(~StayHungr@gateway/tor-sasl/stayhungry)
2021-07-10 07:19:23 +0200 <StayHungry> Comrades, I put main = print "hello, world" into hello.hs and execute ghc.exe hello.hs, then hello.exe pops up with 14 Mbytes in size. how comes a binary that output hello, world is so large?
2021-07-10 07:19:24 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:525a:ea00:9e1e:6e15:b03f:8acc) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2021-07-10 07:19:30 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@118-167-64-241.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-10 07:20:18 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:525a:ea00:a07c:46ec:2ccb:d36d)
2021-07-10 07:20:31 +0200FragByte(~christian@user/fragbyte)
2021-07-10 07:21:48 +0200 <smtnet3> StayHungry, static linking
2021-07-10 07:28:50 +0200oxide(~lambda@user/oxide) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2021-07-10 07:30:49 +0200oxide(~lambda@user/oxide)
2021-07-10 07:31:53 +0200 <c_wraith> And especially the fact that the runtime is a single library
2021-07-10 07:32:41 +0200 <c_wraith> You're getting the entire runtime statically linked in, no matter how much of it you use.
2021-07-10 07:33:10 +0200 <c_wraith> ... Though to be fair, print actually uses a lot more of the runtime's features than you might expect.
2021-07-10 07:35:14 +0200 <StayHungry> other languages also can compile with static linking, but their helloworld consume noticeably less space, hence the question. i guess it's a peculiarity of Haskell then.
2021-07-10 07:35:34 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> also no optimization or whatever the default is
2021-07-10 07:37:39 +0200 <c_wraith> the real reason it happens is that no one has decided the effort of breaking the runtime up so that the linker can leave parts out of it is worth the engineering time.
2021-07-10 07:38:03 +0200 <c_wraith> It's a hard problem for returns that really only matter in niche cases
2021-07-10 07:39:11 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2021-07-10 07:39:55 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> also maybe windows; i'm pretty sure i've had smaller static binaries on linux
2021-07-10 07:40:37 +0200 <c_wraith> Last time I actually paid attention to binary sizes, I was still using 32-bit GHC. That was a long time ago now.
2021-07-10 07:40:59 +0200 <sm> many many people do though.. tis a haskell FAQ
2021-07-10 07:42:15 +0200wei2912(~wei2912@112.199.250.21) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-10 07:44:44 +0200 <StayHungry> thank you for in-depth replies, comrades
2021-07-10 07:50:22 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@118-167-64-241.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2021-07-10 07:50:28 +0200StayHungry(~StayHungr@gateway/tor-sasl/stayhungry) (-)
2021-07-10 07:52:28 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia)
2021-07-10 07:54:17 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@118-167-64-241.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-07-10 07:54:30 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-07-10 07:59:09 +0200 <arahael> I've forgotten some syntax... How do I specify multiple restrictions on a type? Eg, `foo :: A a, B b => a -> b -> a
2021-07-10 07:59:26 +0200hpc(~juzz@ip98-169-35-13.dc.dc.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2021-07-10 07:59:44 +0200 <arahael> I want to have `a` be an instance of `A`, and `b` be an instance of `B`.
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2021-07-10 08:02:01 +0200scrazen(~scrazen@user/scrazen) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-07-10 08:08:22 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea)
2021-07-10 08:10:52 +0200 <arahael> Found it - in the haskell report. I was missing ()'s.
2021-07-10 08:11:07 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> oh good i was thinking it's ()'s
2021-07-10 08:13:40 +0200 <arahael> Yep, except I was trying `:: (A a), (B b) =>`, and that didn't work, but the report is clear - it's `:: (A a, B b) =>`
2021-07-10 08:14:14 +0200 <sm> github actions are horribly complex
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2021-07-10 08:25:29 +0200cadmium.libera.chat+o ChanServ
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2021-07-10 08:25:29 +0200cpape(~user@2a01:4f9:c010:632d::1)
2021-07-10 08:25:29 +0200Unhammer(~Unhammer@user/unhammer)
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2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200trueboxguy(~trueboxgu@user/trueboxguy)
2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200auri(~admin@static.46.108.40.188.clients.your-server.de)
2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200ProofTechnique(sid79547@id-79547.charlton.irccloud.com)
2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200tolt(~weechat-h@li219-154.members.linode.com)
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2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200phaazon(~phaazon@2001:41d0:a:fe76::1)
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2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200Jon(jon@dow.land)
2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200jassob(~jassob@korrob.vth.sgsnet.se)
2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200[exa](exa@user/exa/x-3587197)
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2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200dkeohane(~dkeohane@ec2-18-189-29-140.us-east-2.compute.amazonaws.com)
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2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200lightandlight(sid135476@id-135476.brockwell.irccloud.com)
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2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200dyniec(~dyniec@mail.dybiec.info)
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2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200totbwf_(sid402332@id-402332.highgate.irccloud.com)
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2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200madnight(~madnight@static.59.103.201.195.clients.your-server.de)
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2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200ski(~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se)
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2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200zinc(~zinc@163.ip-51-254-203.eu)
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2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200c_wraith(~c_wraith@adjoint.us)
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2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200mcglk(~mcglk@131.191.49.120)
2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200T_S_(sid501726@id-501726.highgate.irccloud.com)
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2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200systemfault(sid267009@id-267009.highgate.irccloud.com)
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2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200DigitalKiwi(~kiwi@2604:a880:400:d0::12fc:5001)
2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200mrkajetanp(~mrkajetan@2a01:4b00:ea36:6c00:7994:941c:3f5d:2b88)
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2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200Arsen(~arsen@managarm/dev/Arsen)
2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200feepo(sid28508@id-28508.brockwell.irccloud.com)
2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200Hobbyboy(Hobbyboy@hobbyboy.co.uk)
2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200nonzen(~nonzen@user/nonzen)
2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200kawzeg(kawzeg@2a01:7e01::f03c:92ff:fee2:ec34)
2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200aforemny(~aforemny@static.248.158.34.188.clients.your-server.de)
2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200janus(janus@anubis.0x90.dk)
2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200SethTisue__(sid14912@id-14912.charlton.irccloud.com)
2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200Zemyla(~ec2-user@ec2-54-196-11-2.compute-1.amazonaws.com)
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2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200Aleksejs(~Aleksejs@haskell.lv)
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2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200andreas303(andreas303@ip227.orange.bnc4free.com)
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2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200V(~v@anomalous.eu)
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2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200mrmonday(~robert@what.i.hope.is.not.a.tabernaevagant.es)
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2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200oldsk00l(~znc@ec2-18-130-254-135.eu-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com)
2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200fiddlerwoaroof_(~fiddlerwo@user/fiddlerwoaroof)
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2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200Ram-Z(Ram-Z@2a01:7e01::f03c:91ff:fe57:d2df)
2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200taeaad(~taeaad@user/taeaad)
2021-07-10 08:25:30 +0200jiribenes(~jiribenes@rosa.jiribenes.com)
2021-07-10 08:29:35 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@118-167-64-241.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2021-07-10 08:45:21 +0200ahdyt(~ahdyt@114.125.111.246)
2021-07-10 08:50:27 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:39f3:da:7ab8:bc1e) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-10 08:56:44 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-07-10 08:57:13 +0200qbt(~edun@user/edun)
2021-07-10 08:57:58 +0200drd(~drd@93-39-151-19.ip76.fastwebnet.it)
2021-07-10 09:15:02 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d0c72b95500992b3aeb7346db6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-07-10 09:15:27 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d0c72b9550e11034bc017d1082.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-07-10 09:16:09 +0200acidjnk_new3(~acidjnk@p200300d0c72b9550ece5a41d65e4abaa.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-07-10 09:19:36 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d0c72b95500992b3aeb7346db6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-10 09:20:09 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d0c72b9550e11034bc017d1082.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-10 09:20:33 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d0c72b9550ece5a41d65e4abaa.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-07-10 09:21:15 +0200acidjnk_new3(~acidjnk@p200300d0c72b9550ece5a41d65e4abaa.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-10 09:21:25 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@118-167-64-241.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2021-07-10 09:22:08 +0200takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-10 09:28:29 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@118-167-64-241.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-10 09:40:50 +0200TheRAt(~TheRAt@user/therat) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-07-10 09:43:25 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
2021-07-10 09:43:30 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-07-10 09:46:00 +0200TheRAt(~TheRAt@user/therat)
2021-07-10 09:49:04 +0200 <aplainzetakind> Does ghcup install stack and hls by default now?
2021-07-10 09:50:57 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:39f3:da:7ab8:bc1e)
2021-07-10 09:51:20 +0200jespada(~jespada@90.254.247.46) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-07-10 09:53:08 +0200jespada(~jespada@90.254.247.46)
2021-07-10 09:55:14 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:39f3:da:7ab8:bc1e) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-10 09:55:59 +0200neurocyte404(~neurocyte@user/neurocyte) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2021-07-10 09:56:16 +0200 <ahdyt> yes
2021-07-10 09:56:21 +0200 <ahdyt> it's prompting
2021-07-10 09:57:21 +0200Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@dslb-002-203-144-156.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2021-07-10 09:58:58 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@118-167-64-241.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2021-07-10 10:04:10 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@118-167-64-241.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-10 10:06:17 +0200derelict(~derelict@user/derelict)
2021-07-10 10:06:17 +0200derelict(~derelict@user/derelict) (Client Quit)
2021-07-10 10:06:33 +0200neceve(~quassel@2a02:c7f:607e:d600:f762:20dd:304e:4b1f)
2021-07-10 10:06:40 +0200hendursa1(~weechat@user/hendursaga)
2021-07-10 10:09:35 +0200hendursaga(~weechat@user/hendursaga) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-07-10 10:11:11 +0200amirouche(~amirouche@user/amirouche) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2021-07-10 10:11:58 +0200derelict(~derelict@user/derelict)
2021-07-10 10:11:59 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-07-10 10:12:08 +0200derelict(~derelict@user/derelict) (Client Quit)
2021-07-10 10:16:12 +0200 <ahdyt> hey how to magically derive FromJSON and ToJSON using Aeson without the rawFunction? so, I have newtype for every data, where's the real type is hidden in rawFunction. newtype Name = Name {rawName :: String} deriving (Eq, FromJSON, ToJSON)
2021-07-10 10:16:15 +0200 <ahdyt> `newtype Name = Name {rawName :: String} deriving (Eq, FromJSON, ToJSON)`
2021-07-10 10:16:24 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@118-167-64-241.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2021-07-10 10:16:32 +0200 <ahdyt> ```data Item = Item
2021-07-10 10:16:33 +0200 <ahdyt> 35 { name :: Name,
2021-07-10 10:16:33 +0200 <ahdyt> 36 price :: Price,
2021-07-10 10:16:34 +0200 <ahdyt> 37 pouch :: Pouch,
2021-07-10 10:16:34 +0200 <ahdyt> 38 weight :: Weight
2021-07-10 10:16:35 +0200 <ahdyt> 39 }
2021-07-10 10:16:35 +0200 <ahdyt> 40 deriving (Eq)
2021-07-10 10:16:36 +0200 <ahdyt> ```
2021-07-10 10:17:06 +0200 <ahdyt> using DeriveGeneric make that rawFunction included in the json file.
2021-07-10 10:17:22 +0200 <ahdyt> and making instance for every of that is insane...
2021-07-10 10:17:27 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-07-10 10:17:29 +0200shredder(~user@user/shredder) (Quit: quitting)
2021-07-10 10:17:30 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-10 10:17:55 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
2021-07-10 10:18:19 +0200shredder(~user@user/shredder)
2021-07-10 10:20:10 +0200beka(~beka@104-244-27-23.static.monkeybrains.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-10 10:20:44 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@118-167-64-241.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2021-07-10 10:23:16 +0200Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
2021-07-10 10:24:47 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2021-07-10 10:25:54 +0200Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
2021-07-10 10:27:19 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-07-10 10:27:54 +0200Guest58(~Guest58@50.47.115.102)
2021-07-10 10:28:04 +0200Guest58(~Guest58@50.47.115.102) (Client Quit)
2021-07-10 10:28:51 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-213-49-189-31.dsl.scarlet.be)
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2021-07-10 10:30:44 +0200 <arahael> ahdyt: Next time, suggest you use a paste site. (There's one suggested in the /topic). Even if people are polite, the IRC servers will usually *severely* rate limit you if you flood like that for a while.
2021-07-10 10:35:56 +0200fendor(~fendor@91.141.50.81.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
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2021-07-10 10:38:19 +0200ahdyt(~ahdyt@114.125.111.246)
2021-07-10 10:38:58 +0200 <ahdyt> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/XwWbfULZ
2021-07-10 10:39:00 +0200 <ahdyt> arahael
2021-07-10 10:39:05 +0200wallymathieu(~wallymath@81-234-151-21-no94.tbcn.telia.com)
2021-07-10 10:39:50 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-07-10 10:40:32 +0200 <ahdyt> How to prevent the rawName rawPrice rawPouch rawWeight shows in json file? those raw* function inside newtype
2021-07-10 10:43:57 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-07-10 10:44:35 +0200hughjfchen(~hughjfche@vmi556545.contaboserver.net)
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2021-07-10 10:50:50 +0200shredder(~user@user/shredder)
2021-07-10 10:52:25 +0200 <arahael> ahdyt: You'd need to either change that name, or implement custom class instances instead of letting haskell do it for you.
2021-07-10 10:52:51 +0200 <arahael> ahdyt: In the same way you've also done custom instances for Show.
2021-07-10 10:54:28 +0200 <ahdyt> but it's must be an object or array, that's aeson limitation. how to just instance of a String, Int, or PrimitiveType
2021-07-10 10:54:56 +0200 <ahdyt> Note that the JSON standard only allows arrays or objects of things at the top-level. Since this library follows the standard, calling decode on an unsupported result type will typecheck, but will always "fail":
2021-07-10 10:56:33 +0200 <arahael> Well, that's a somewhat different question - for the first question, take a look at https://github.com/haskell/aeson/blob/c1b97f6f6303680453ed54ddb6c8d91466261f3a/examples/src/Simple…
2021-07-10 10:57:03 +0200 <arahael> For the second, wrap the root item in an object or array if that restriction is a problem?
2021-07-10 10:58:43 +0200 <ahdyt> well, the problem is to get rid of the rawFunction from newtype. and that instance FromJson,ToJson Coord
2021-07-10 10:58:44 +0200 <ahdyt> is same as the one I made which is commented, as it's doens't change anything, the problem is in the newtype.
2021-07-10 11:00:35 +0200 <arahael> ahdyt: Because the one you commented is leveraging the auto-generated instances. You'd need dto write custom instances for ALL of them.
2021-07-10 11:02:01 +0200amahl(~amahl@dsl-jklbng12-54fbca-64.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-07-10 11:03:47 +0200 <ahdyt> yeah true, and that's my question.
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2021-07-10 11:12:10 +0200 <arahael> ahdyt: And do you have the answer now?
2021-07-10 11:12:23 +0200lbseale(~lbseale@user/ep1ctetus)
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2021-07-10 11:16:38 +0200shriekingnoise(~shrieking@186.137.144.80) ()
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2021-07-10 11:19:31 +0200 <ahdyt> nope, not yet
2021-07-10 11:20:24 +0200shredder(~user@user/shredder)
2021-07-10 11:21:13 +0200 <ahdyt> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/7Jh45fru
2021-07-10 11:27:25 +0200gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2021-07-10 11:28:19 +0200 <arahael> ahdyt: Because it has to be Object, not String.
2021-07-10 11:30:06 +0200 <arahael> Ooh, sorry, has to be an instance of Value, but people often match Object.
2021-07-10 11:30:52 +0200 <arahael> (And your 'v' in "String v" is not itself a Name)
2021-07-10 11:31:13 +0200 <ahdyt> it's intended
2021-07-10 11:31:19 +0200 <arahael> You probably want: parseJSON (String v) = Name v
2021-07-10 11:31:39 +0200 <ahdyt> I think that's not work too?
2021-07-10 11:31:43 +0200 <arahael> (Or Name{rawValue=v} if you're using record syntax)
2021-07-10 11:31:45 +0200 <ahdyt> should I make Name instance of Value ?
2021-07-10 11:32:07 +0200 <ahdyt> the error still same
2021-07-10 11:32:12 +0200 <ahdyt> Couldn't match expected type ‘aeson-1.5.6.0:Data.Aeson.Types.Internal.Parser Name’ with actual type ‘Name’
2021-07-10 11:32:48 +0200 <ahdyt> eventhough I add Name before v
2021-07-10 11:32:57 +0200wallymathieu(~wallymath@94.191.154.61)
2021-07-10 11:33:37 +0200 <wz1000> arahael: you can use `deriving newtype (FromJSON, ToJSON)` and things should work
2021-07-10 11:34:03 +0200 <wz1000> with `{-# LANGUAGE GeneralisedNewtypeDeriving, DerivingStrategies #-}
2021-07-10 11:34:09 +0200 <ahdyt> wait really?
2021-07-10 11:34:11 +0200 <wz1000> I mean ahdyt
2021-07-10 11:34:13 +0200 <wz1000> yes
2021-07-10 11:35:57 +0200 <ahdyt> oh yeah? how can it be? can u ref me to the doc? wz1000
2021-07-10 11:36:09 +0200 <arahael> wz1000: ahdyt also wants to not have the record fields to be in the resulting json though. I've already said they need to be changed, or to have a custom instance.
2021-07-10 11:36:09 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@cpe-45-46-140-49.buffalo.res.rr.com)
2021-07-10 11:36:19 +0200 <ahdyt> no it's fixed
2021-07-10 11:36:25 +0200 <ahdyt> adding newtype after deriving
2021-07-10 11:37:38 +0200 <wz1000> sorry, have to go now. you can look at the docs for GeneralisedNewtypeDeriving in the GHC users guide
2021-07-10 11:38:08 +0200 <ahdyt> okay2, thank you.
2021-07-10 11:41:19 +0200 <arahael> Fancy.
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2021-07-10 12:32:32 +0200thyriaen(~thyriaen@45.178.73.238)
2021-07-10 12:33:45 +0200 <thyriaen> howdy, friends - i have created a new data myType = Foo Int
2021-07-10 12:33:56 +0200 <thyriaen> how can i then access the Int ?
2021-07-10 12:35:42 +0200 <Rembane> thyriaen: f (Foo i) = i
2021-07-10 12:35:50 +0200Maxdamantus(~Maxdamant@user/maxdamantus) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-07-10 12:36:11 +0200 <thyriaen> so only possible with pattern matching ?
2021-07-10 12:39:06 +0200 <Rembane> thyriaen: Yeah, there's another variant that looks like this: data MyType = Foo { unFoo :: Int }
2021-07-10 12:39:18 +0200 <Rembane> thyriaen: Called like this: unFoo (Foo 7)
2021-07-10 12:39:32 +0200 <thyriaen> okay, thanks
2021-07-10 12:39:53 +0200 <Rembane> np!
2021-07-10 12:40:50 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv)
2021-07-10 12:40:51 +0200 <thyriaen> Rembane, maybe if i can ask another data Type question
2021-07-10 12:43:08 +0200 <Rembane> thyriaen: Go ahead!
2021-07-10 12:43:09 +0200 <thyriaen> what is the difference between // data Foo = Foo Int // and // data Foo = Int // why is there a data constructor ?
2021-07-10 12:43:23 +0200 <thyriaen> what is the point of the 2nd Foo
2021-07-10 12:44:30 +0200 <Rembane> thyriaen: If you want to give an alias to a data type you can do it like this: type Foo = Int, but then you got almost nothing from it except for a fancy name.
2021-07-10 12:44:50 +0200 <Rembane> thyriaen: By adding another constructor you wrap the other data type in your data type and you decide what properties that data type should have.
2021-07-10 12:45:32 +0200 <thyriaen> i dont mean type
2021-07-10 12:45:35 +0200 <thyriaen> maybe i made the example too little
2021-07-10 12:45:39 +0200 <Rembane> thyriaen: You can also give it different constructors like for instance: data ShoeSize = EU Int | US Int | FootLengthCM Float | FootLengthImperial Float
2021-07-10 12:45:47 +0200 <Rembane> thyriaen: Add more example! :)
2021-07-10 12:45:49 +0200qbt(~edun@user/edun) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-10 12:46:19 +0200 <thyriaen> yes, like with the ShoeSize there is no additional ShoeSize data constructor
2021-07-10 12:46:32 +0200 <thyriaen> you did not wrote data ShoeSize = ShoeSize EU Int | ...
2021-07-10 12:46:57 +0200 <boxscape> thyriaen: the fact that both are called Foo is a coincidence, you could have just as well called it `data Foo = Bar Int`, that would just mean you have to use the `Bar` constructor to construct values of type `Foo`
2021-07-10 12:47:22 +0200 <Rembane> thyriaen: In that case the constructor is EU
2021-07-10 12:47:31 +0200 <Rembane> thyriaen: The type name is ShoeSize
2021-07-10 12:48:13 +0200 <Rembane> thyriaen: Naming the constructor and the type the same thing is IIRC called type punting and it's very confusing until you get used to it.
2021-07-10 12:48:19 +0200 <boxscape> (punning)
2021-07-10 12:48:28 +0200 <thyriaen> well
2021-07-10 12:48:33 +0200 <thyriaen> call me confused :)
2021-07-10 12:48:36 +0200 <Rembane> ^^
2021-07-10 12:49:47 +0200 <Rembane> boxscape: I didn't recall correctly. Thank you! :)
2021-07-10 12:50:03 +0200 <ahdyt> the second Foo is the constructor
2021-07-10 12:50:26 +0200 <ahdyt> you can make smart constructor by e.g data Foo = Foo Int, mkFoo = Foo, then you can call mkFoo 2
2021-07-10 12:50:43 +0200 <Rembane> thyriaen: This might make it more clear: data SomeType = SomeConstructor
2021-07-10 12:50:58 +0200 <ahdyt> you can name your constructor as you want like EU, Bar, Baz, Whatever
2021-07-10 12:51:28 +0200 <ahdyt> ah yeah that's sum up Rembane.
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2021-07-10 13:14:38 +0200 <ahdyt> \
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2021-07-10 15:10:33 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@p2e5a50e5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2021-07-10 15:21:14 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot)
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2021-07-10 15:33:06 +0200 <lep> is there a good way to reduce memory usage of ghc (cabal)? i cant install aeson as compiling `Data.Aeson.Parser.Internal` totally thrashes my ram
2021-07-10 15:35:24 +0200haykam1(~haykam@static.100.2.21.65.clients.your-server.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-07-10 15:35:39 +0200 <lep> i tried -O0 but it doesnt help at all
2021-07-10 15:38:09 +0200chris-the-slurpa(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2021-07-10 15:43:41 +0200 <maerwald> lep: -j1
2021-07-10 15:43:41 +0200azeem(~azeem@dynamic-adsl-84-220-226-129.clienti.tiscali.it) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-07-10 15:43:58 +0200 <lep> did that already aswell :(
2021-07-10 15:47:24 +0200azeem(~azeem@dynamic-adsl-84-220-226-129.clienti.tiscali.it)
2021-07-10 15:48:50 +0200chomwitt(~Pitsikoko@ppp-94-67-202-202.home.otenet.gr)
2021-07-10 15:49:07 +0200 <[exa]> lep: how much ram do you need to fit in?
2021-07-10 15:49:23 +0200 <[exa]> I don't have problems with that particular one on 8GB
2021-07-10 15:51:16 +0200 <lep> ~1GB
2021-07-10 15:51:46 +0200 <maerwald> gg
2021-07-10 15:52:34 +0200 <arahael> I wouldn't try to use a 1GB as a dev system.
2021-07-10 15:52:57 +0200 <maerwald> prolly arm box or sth
2021-07-10 15:53:17 +0200 <lep> openbsd vps
2021-07-10 15:57:51 +0200 <[exa]> lep: you can't build it elsewhere and just upload it?
2021-07-10 15:57:58 +0200jlamothe(~jlamothe@198.251.60.157) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-10 15:57:58 +0200 <lep> i dont have any other openbsd box
2021-07-10 15:58:13 +0200 <[exa]> your laptop + virtualbox?
2021-07-10 15:58:24 +0200 <[exa]> or some such thing
2021-07-10 15:59:05 +0200 <lep> in the end it's probably easier to simply use python as sad as that sounds
2021-07-10 15:59:09 +0200 <[exa]> like, building in <1GB is sadly not an option anymore
2021-07-10 15:59:11 +0200qbt(~edun@user/edun)
2021-07-10 15:59:14 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-10 15:59:29 +0200 <[exa]> anyway you really should be able to just produce the binary elsewhere
2021-07-10 15:59:52 +0200 <lep> well i looked into cross-compiling every now and then it always seemed a very big hassle
2021-07-10 16:00:18 +0200 <lep> my biggest two pain points with ghc/haskell: compilation speed/ram and cross compiling
2021-07-10 16:00:32 +0200 <lep> im *soooo* close to write my own haskell compiler which simply spits out like lua
2021-07-10 16:00:43 +0200 <[exa]> what's the program supposed to do btw?
2021-07-10 16:01:25 +0200 <lep> take in some data over http
2021-07-10 16:01:26 +0200 <[exa]> anyways yeah I guess more people in this channel would like another compiler :D
2021-07-10 16:01:39 +0200 <lep> json would be easiest for later js usage
2021-07-10 16:01:52 +0200 <lep> for now my poc uses bytestrings over pipes
2021-07-10 16:02:16 +0200 <lep> just some experiments for some distributed data stuff
2021-07-10 16:03:20 +0200 <ahdyt> really?
2021-07-10 16:03:23 +0200 <ahdyt> how's your ghc?
2021-07-10 16:03:32 +0200 <ahdyt> I mean, another compiler for haskell.
2021-07-10 16:04:19 +0200 <lep> i mean i havent started but my frustration keeps on growing
2021-07-10 16:04:51 +0200 <ahdyt> okay
2021-07-10 16:10:07 +0200leeb(~leeb@KD111239157039.au-net.ne.jp) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-07-10 16:11:55 +0200alx741(~alx741@186.178.108.75) (Quit: alx741)
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2021-07-10 16:18:11 +0200juhp(~juhp@128.106.188.66)
2021-07-10 16:19:44 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-07-10 16:19:55 +0200Deide(~Deide@217.155.19.23)
2021-07-10 16:19:55 +0200Deide(~Deide@217.155.19.23) (Changing host)
2021-07-10 16:19:55 +0200Deide(~Deide@user/deide)
2021-07-10 16:24:22 +0200fjmorazan(~quassel@user/fjmorazan) (Quit: fjmorazan)
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2021-07-10 16:28:08 +0200phao(~phao@2804:d45:8e7a:de00:ad59:61db:f854:9224)
2021-07-10 16:28:26 +0200 <phao> Hi. Is there a popular discord server for haskell and fp?
2021-07-10 16:29:17 +0200azeem(~azeem@dynamic-adsl-84-220-226-129.clienti.tiscali.it) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-07-10 16:29:59 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.17.130)
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2021-07-10 16:30:59 +0200 <carmysilna> phao: https://discord.gg/5ay2HNK2
2021-07-10 16:31:22 +0200 <phao> Thank you.
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2021-07-10 17:06:22 +0200 <janus> "Virtual Haskell Cohack" organized by Chris Smith is starting in 24 min
2021-07-10 17:07:06 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn)
2021-07-10 17:16:14 +0200oxide(~lambda@user/oxide) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-10 17:16:41 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-07-10 17:18:24 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:39f3:da:7ab8:bc1e)
2021-07-10 17:18:28 +0200 <ahdyt> janus where can I join that?
2021-07-10 17:19:15 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2021-07-10 17:19:18 +0200 <geekosaur> https://www.meetup.com/NY-Haskell/events/279067287/
2021-07-10 17:25:54 +0200 <ahdyt> thank you
2021-07-10 17:27:24 +0200pgib(~textual@173.38.117.69) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-07-10 17:35:12 +0200marinelli(~marinelli@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli)
2021-07-10 17:35:58 +0200mikail(~mikail@90.212.77.3)
2021-07-10 17:37:54 +0200waleee(~waleee@h-98-128-228-119.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-10 17:40:06 +0200 <ahdyt> oh my can't join
2021-07-10 17:40:26 +0200 <ahdyt> meetup is horribly slow
2021-07-10 17:43:44 +0200 <sshine> what are people working on during this cohack?
2021-07-10 17:44:52 +0200 <janus> sshine: projects are being discussed now in breakout rooms
2021-07-10 17:45:07 +0200 <janus> sshine: after that rooms will be created
2021-07-10 17:45:30 +0200 <janus> sounds like there will be at least be a Traversible documentation room with vduchovni
2021-07-10 17:45:33 +0200 <sshine> cool :) I'm at https://nwwc.dk/ this weekend, so not participating in the cohack rooms.
2021-07-10 17:46:03 +0200 <ahdyt> wow yeah there's breakout room
2021-07-10 17:46:12 +0200 <ahdyt> what are they talking about there?
2021-07-10 17:46:39 +0200 <janus> there are 4 breakout rooms, there are 4-5 people in each
2021-07-10 17:46:45 +0200 <janus> i dunno what they are talking about in the other ones
2021-07-10 17:47:00 +0200slowButPresent(~slowButPr@user/slowbutpresent)
2021-07-10 17:47:08 +0200 <ahdyt> what about the one in your breakout room?
2021-07-10 17:48:42 +0200econo(uid147250@user/econo)
2021-07-10 17:54:26 +0200 <Profpatsch> lep: might actually be a cool effort to patch aeson to use less than 1GB for compilation
2021-07-10 17:54:33 +0200dajoer(~david@user/gvx) (Quit: leaving)
2021-07-10 17:54:40 +0200 <Profpatsch> And to track which modules take how much to compile under each GHC version
2021-07-10 17:54:57 +0200 <Profpatsch> It might be silly stuff like deriving clauses taking lots of time/space
2021-07-10 17:55:09 +0200 <lep> i think there actually was a ghc ticket about aeson through different ghc versions
2021-07-10 17:55:10 +0200 <Profpatsch> so even adding a cabal flag to make things optional might help
2021-07-10 17:55:43 +0200 <janus> ahdyt: there's gonna be a room on a stripe-haskell PR
2021-07-10 17:55:50 +0200 <Profpatsch> imo aeson should be split into a non-fancy base package and a second one which implements the fancier interfaces
2021-07-10 17:56:08 +0200 <Profpatsch> and maybe get a documentation overhaul
2021-07-10 17:56:18 +0200 <lep> what do you consider fancy?
2021-07-10 17:56:41 +0200 <Profpatsch> there’s so much crap in that module that nobody uses
2021-07-10 17:56:48 +0200 <Profpatsch> like the whole ToJSON/FromJSON antipattern
2021-07-10 17:57:03 +0200 <Profpatsch> (which everybody uses even though they shouldn’t)
2021-07-10 17:57:04 +0200 <ahdyt> nice janus, are you join libby horacek?
2021-07-10 17:57:33 +0200 <Profpatsch> lep: so a base module would just provide simple combinators, an efficient encoder and decoder
2021-07-10 17:57:45 +0200 <Profpatsch> Probably not even many types apart from Value
2021-07-10 17:57:49 +0200 <lep> dunno, i just want to have my json string to become a value with least amount of me typing stuff
2021-07-10 17:57:53 +0200 <Profpatsch> And ToJSON/FromJSON would move to an optional package
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2021-07-10 18:25:20 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.17.130)
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2021-07-10 18:31:38 +0200haykam1(~haykam@static.100.2.21.65.clients.your-server.de)
2021-07-10 18:31:57 +0200 <lbseale> Profpatsch: why shouldn't one use ToJSON/FromJSON?
2021-07-10 18:32:25 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.17.130) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-07-10 18:32:52 +0200 <Profpatsch> lbseale: because it binds your API to your types
2021-07-10 18:33:02 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.17.130)
2021-07-10 18:33:32 +0200 <Profpatsch> it is okay if you consume it with the same code (e.g. you have a client/server that both use the same ToJSON/FromJSON instance?)
2021-07-10 18:33:41 +0200 <Profpatsch> *instances
2021-07-10 18:33:59 +0200 <Profpatsch> But if you don’t either have a test for every single field or explicitely encode/decode
2021-07-10 18:34:28 +0200 <Profpatsch> And e.g. it’s a dark pattern to bind the encoding of a thing to its type
2021-07-10 18:34:42 +0200 <Profpatsch> for example you might not always want to encode integers the same way
2021-07-10 18:34:53 +0200norias(~jaredm@c-98-219-195-163.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
2021-07-10 18:34:55 +0200falafel(~falafel@pool-96-255-70-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-07-10 18:35:17 +0200Atum_(~IRC@user/atum/x-2392232)
2021-07-10 18:35:38 +0200 <ahdyt> how's encoding integers the different way?
2021-07-10 18:35:51 +0200 <dsal> But I would always want to encode `SomeRequestType` the same way.
2021-07-10 18:35:56 +0200 <Profpatsch> No
2021-07-10 18:36:11 +0200 <Profpatsch> not if you API changes, you need backwards compat etc pp
2021-07-10 18:36:40 +0200 <Profpatsch> Unless you have a Haskell type that you consider exactly your public API and never change in a backwards-incompatible way
2021-07-10 18:36:58 +0200 <lbseale> right, that makes sense
2021-07-10 18:36:59 +0200 <Profpatsch> And that doesn’t depend on any types that might change in a backwards-incompatible way
2021-07-10 18:37:09 +0200 <Profpatsch> which is a really easy trap to fall into
2021-07-10 18:37:15 +0200hnOsmium0001(uid453710@id-453710.stonehaven.irccloud.com)
2021-07-10 18:37:22 +0200 <lbseale> I was thinking yesterday about how using FromJSON makes it impossible to handle fields that may or may be present
2021-07-10 18:37:31 +0200 <dsal> How does it make it impossible?
2021-07-10 18:37:31 +0200 <hpc> ahdyt: better example, sometimes you want your timestamps to be formatted strings, sometimes you want them to be epoch integers
2021-07-10 18:37:36 +0200 <lbseale> and you really have to write you own instance if you want to handle that gracefully
2021-07-10 18:37:44 +0200 <hpc> and sometimes the thing on the other end of the json is VERY picky about what format the timestamp is in
2021-07-10 18:37:56 +0200 <ahdyt> ah so be it
2021-07-10 18:37:58 +0200 <hpc> so you want the full power of formatting strings behind your encoding
2021-07-10 18:38:05 +0200 <Profpatsch> lbseale: even worse, for some apis it might make a difference *per field* what happens if the field is missing or null or "" or …
2021-07-10 18:38:09 +0200 <ahdyt> and what's the good solution that Profpatsch guided to?
2021-07-10 18:38:12 +0200 <ahdyt> I didn't follow.
2021-07-10 18:38:44 +0200jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net)
2021-07-10 18:38:50 +0200 <ahdyt> Either or Maybe doesn't solve that Profpatsch?
2021-07-10 18:38:52 +0200 <Profpatsch> ahdyt: plain old functions
2021-07-10 18:39:38 +0200 <Profpatsch> No automatic binding of encoder or decoder functions to types
2021-07-10 18:39:43 +0200lerzer(~lerzer@101.175.100.42)
2021-07-10 18:40:01 +0200 <s__> I'd like to have just Aeson.Value in a separate package (aeson-types?), for cases when I don't need encoding/decoding or want to use an alternative encoder/decoder
2021-07-10 18:40:16 +0200 <s__> the number of dependencies in aeson is out of hand
2021-07-10 18:40:18 +0200 <Profpatsch> if you need to decode something, write a pof for it that returns an aeson Parser
2021-07-10 18:40:56 +0200 <dsal> That's necessary sometimes, but elm, e.g. requires that for every type and it's quite tedious there.
2021-07-10 18:40:56 +0200 <Profpatsch> s__: I feel like the best way forward is to split these things out into dependencies of aeson
2021-07-10 18:41:09 +0200 <ahdyt> does that also make it unable to magically derive anything?
2021-07-10 18:41:32 +0200 <Profpatsch> e.g. have an aeson-fromjson-tojson package that just has the class & instances
2021-07-10 18:41:56 +0200 <Profpatsch> ahdyt: you don’t want any magic in your API boundary
2021-07-10 18:41:58 +0200 <lbseale> So to summarize the answer, you should only use ToJSON and FromJSON if you know that the layout of your JSON will always match your Haskell record ... but it likely never will so don't use them
2021-07-10 18:41:59 +0200 <Profpatsch> is all I’m saying
2021-07-10 18:42:13 +0200lerzer(~lerzer@101.175.100.42) ()
2021-07-10 18:42:42 +0200 <ahdyt> ah okay?
2021-07-10 18:43:09 +0200 <dsal> I use FromJSON and ToJSON when they aren't aligned very well because the classes give me a common way to send and receive records when communicating withs ervices.
2021-07-10 18:44:02 +0200 <dsal> You have to have a function somewhere, so having a default one attached to a class is as good as any. Then you don't have to worry about naming hundreds of things that are all reasonable defaults.
2021-07-10 18:44:07 +0200 <ahdyt> I wonder if there's any FromJSON and ToJSON antipattern snippet or example?
2021-07-10 18:44:19 +0200 <dsal> I think the argument here is "all of them"
2021-07-10 18:45:10 +0200 <Profpatsch> I’d say the only sensible use of them is when you actually consume the same data on the other side, with the same Haskell types
2021-07-10 18:45:18 +0200Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@dslb-002-203-144-156.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-07-10 18:45:25 +0200 <Profpatsch> e.g. you have a foo-types package and a foo-server and a foo-client which both depend on foo-types
2021-07-10 18:45:32 +0200 <Profpatsch> then you can use To/From all you want
2021-07-10 18:45:47 +0200 <dsal> I've had incompatibilities come up when upstreams change and I just like, fix them. I still have to model what's correct for my own services and having common interfaces haven't hindered me.
2021-07-10 18:45:50 +0200 <Profpatsch> (big disclaimer: iff you *always* deploy server and client together!)
2021-07-10 18:45:51 +0200yauhsien(~yauhsien@118-167-64-241.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2021-07-10 18:46:12 +0200Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@dslb-002-203-144-156.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2021-07-10 18:46:34 +0200 <Profpatsch> we did that with a purescript frontend and it worked great
2021-07-10 18:46:46 +0200falafel(~falafel@pool-96-255-70-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-07-10 18:47:01 +0200 <Profpatsch> Just generated the associated purescript code and deployed server & frontend in one go every time
2021-07-10 18:47:03 +0200 <dsal> I have an implementation of a binary protocol that supports a couple major versions with marshaling and unmarshaling of a large number of types and deal with it by just passing the version around so they know which features make the wire and which don't.
2021-07-10 18:47:21 +0200 <bryan[m]> In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with To/FromJSON , but it's unwise to think your api types are the same as your model types.
2021-07-10 18:48:27 +0200 <dsal> Model types and API types can sometimes conveniently be the same. I don't go out of my way to separate them, but sometimes regret not going out of my way to separate them. Refactoring is fun, though. :)
2021-07-10 18:48:30 +0200coeus_(~coeus@b2b-92-50-96-34.unitymedia.biz) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-07-10 18:48:50 +0200falafel(~falafel@pool-96-255-70-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-07-10 18:50:03 +0200 <bryan[m]> In effect, we're all saying the same thing: that data coming from json might not be exactly the right shape our programs need. I just think one shouldn't shoot the messenger. :)
2021-07-10 18:50:18 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2021-07-10 18:52:43 +0200 <dsal> I've had some kind of gross FromJSON impls to do that, but... that code has to live somewhere and naming is hard.
2021-07-10 18:53:34 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea)
2021-07-10 18:54:15 +0200 <sshine> it sounds like one would wanna newtype before ToJSON/FromJSON'ing and have those newtypes relate to e.g. an API. :)
2021-07-10 18:54:53 +0200 <sshine> dsal, is that much more expensive?
2021-07-10 18:55:42 +0200 <dsal> It's just a different thing to name / different way to structure the "plain old function" kind of concept, but with classes, so not totally plain.
2021-07-10 18:57:08 +0200 <dsal> I don't think it's expensive in any meaningful way, but I have a type that represents a thing, and some upstream has a JSON object that represents that thing in one way or another. I might very well have to do some work to get from there to here. I'm not bothered by doing that inside the FromJSON instance.
2021-07-10 18:57:39 +0200 <ahdyt> sshine hahaha is this related to my previous question & snippet that I've shared?
2021-07-10 18:58:04 +0200qbt(~edun@user/edun) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-10 18:58:32 +0200 <lbseale> So speaking of writing FromJSON instances, I really like ITProTV's recommendation about writing them in do notation: https://engineering.itpro.tv/haskell-style-guide/#prefer-monads-for-building-records
2021-07-10 18:59:24 +0200chexum(~chexum@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-10 19:02:47 +0200 <dsal> I don't understand this. Why is that better?
2021-07-10 19:03:21 +0200 <dsal> Just because of field order?
2021-07-10 19:04:08 +0200Atum_(~IRC@user/atum/x-2392232) (Quit: Atum_)
2021-07-10 19:04:38 +0200 <dsal> It also says to avoid list comprehensions immediately above that because... someone might not know what they do?
2021-07-10 19:04:48 +0200Atum_(IRC@user/atum/x-2392232)
2021-07-10 19:05:32 +0200 <lbseale> yeah because it avoids the field order
2021-07-10 19:06:31 +0200mc47(~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47)
2021-07-10 19:06:43 +0200 <hpc> even though list comprehensions and do notation are the same thing?
2021-07-10 19:08:01 +0200 <Las[m]> How would I convert a ParsecT e s Identity a to a ParsecT e s IO a from Megaparsec? I assume there's some general trick applicable here to lift it, but I can't find any function that does what I want.
2021-07-10 19:08:23 +0200 <dsal> @undo [ x * 2 | x <- xs, x > 0 ]
2021-07-10 19:08:23 +0200 <lambdabot> concatMap (\ x -> if x > 0 then [x * 2] else []) xs
2021-07-10 19:10:21 +0200 <hpc> a better translation is do {x <- xs; guard (x > 0); pure (x * 2)}
2021-07-10 19:11:07 +0200 <dsal> Some of these recommendations are just bad. It's like, "Don't write `getLine >>= print`." It thinks it's always better to name the intermediate value and then pass it to the function.
2021-07-10 19:11:13 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2021-07-10 19:11:34 +0200 <dsal> Also, don't use multiple function heads when you could just have a case statement.
2021-07-10 19:12:17 +0200 <dsal> "Prefer let over where" -- is this list a joke?
2021-07-10 19:13:01 +0200 <dsal> "Avoid language extensions" -- like... all of them.
2021-07-10 19:14:28 +0200 <hpc> even avoid the ones that are on by default
2021-07-10 19:14:35 +0200 <hpc> build with every -XNo* flag :D
2021-07-10 19:16:07 +0200 <c_wraith> I wonder if avoiding language extensions means you aren't allowed to use ST
2021-07-10 19:16:10 +0200 <dsal> There are a few things in this list that are good, but many of them seem like the opposite of what would be useful. They clearly use OverloadedStrings in this list after saying you should avoid all language extensions.
2021-07-10 19:16:17 +0200 <dsal> Does ST require language extensions?
2021-07-10 19:16:33 +0200 <c_wraith> defining it does. Using it... well, it requires something that required it. :)
2021-07-10 19:17:05 +0200 <c_wraith> And ugh. OverloadedStrings is one of the worst extensions in GHC.
2021-07-10 19:17:19 +0200 <monochrom> I always go to the meta level, as you know. At the meta level, inflexible do's-and-don't's lists are always bad.
2021-07-10 19:17:34 +0200 <dsal> Some are badder than others.
2021-07-10 19:18:11 +0200 <c_wraith> Some extensions really are just pure awesome.
2021-07-10 19:18:58 +0200 <c_wraith> RankNTypes is just a wonderful expansion of the type system, for instance.
2021-07-10 19:19:45 +0200 <c_wraith> Matched only by Rank2Types and PolymorphicComponents. (It is a bit silly that the same extension has 3 different names)
2021-07-10 19:19:47 +0200 <monochrom> People already know list comprehension from python.
2021-07-10 19:20:11 +0200 <dsal> Do not learn anything that will make your job easier.
2021-07-10 19:20:33 +0200 <monochrom> It takes living under a rock in a corner of a cave to worry "some people may have never seen list comprehension".
2021-07-10 19:21:21 +0200 <monochrom> In that case why not also advocate "some people may have never seen lambdas".
2021-07-10 19:21:25 +0200 <c_wraith> I tend to avoid list comprehensions anyway. As a special syntactic form they just aren't as composable as the functions they desugar to.
2021-07-10 19:22:26 +0200 <monochrom> The fundamental problem with mixfix syntax :)
2021-07-10 19:22:36 +0200 <c_wraith> yep
2021-07-10 19:22:51 +0200 <dsal> Their case, though.. bad: `[ x * 2 | x <- xs, x > 0 ]` good: `map (* 2) (filter (> 0) xs)` OK: `do x <- xs; guard (x > 0); pure (x * 2)`
2021-07-10 19:23:44 +0200 <dsal> I guess I wouldn't be offended by "bad" or "good" there. I'd be offended by having to work with someone who couldn't read either.
2021-07-10 19:24:10 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-10 19:24:11 +0200 <monochrom> Another meta argument is that with someone calling themselves "IT pro" you can safely bet this is an inflated melodramatic ego and must be completely distrusted.
2021-07-10 19:24:39 +0200 <monochrom> Beware of people calling themselves ITPro or NextGenHacker
2021-07-10 19:25:52 +0200 <monochrom> https://youtu.be/SXmv8quf_xM is what you get from someone calling themselves NextGenHacker.
2021-07-10 19:26:01 +0200 <monochrom> You get the TracerT monad transformer!
2021-07-10 19:28:40 +0200 <Rembane> :O
2021-07-10 19:29:27 +0200 <dsal> They That video is amazing.
2021-07-10 19:30:43 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.17.130) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-07-10 19:30:49 +0200 <monochrom> A classic. :)
2021-07-10 19:30:58 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.17.130)
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2021-07-10 21:10:01 +0200 <yin[m]> what's the difference between Map.assocs and Map.toList?
2021-07-10 21:10:34 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@cpe-45-46-140-49.buffalo.res.rr.com) (Quit: Exeunt)
2021-07-10 21:10:59 +0200 <davean> yin[m]: read the docs?
2021-07-10 21:11:01 +0200 <davean> or the code
2021-07-10 21:11:03 +0200 <davean> it specificly says
2021-07-10 21:11:12 +0200 <shapr> :t Data.Map.assocs
2021-07-10 21:11:13 +0200 <lambdabot> M.Map k a -> [(k, a)]
2021-07-10 21:11:17 +0200 <shapr> :t Data.Map.toList
2021-07-10 21:11:18 +0200 <lambdabot> M.Map k a -> [(k, a)]
2021-07-10 21:11:29 +0200 <davean> "An alias for toAscList."
2021-07-10 21:11:37 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50)
2021-07-10 21:12:00 +0200 <davean> so what is toAscList? "where the keys are in ascending order."
2021-07-10 21:12:10 +0200 <davean> which is missing from toList, so we're done
2021-07-10 21:13:04 +0200berberman_(~berberman@user/berberman)
2021-07-10 21:13:20 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-07-10 21:14:01 +0200berberman(~berberman@user/berberman) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-10 21:14:46 +0200 <yin[m]> from the code:
2021-07-10 21:14:51 +0200 <yin[m]> toList = toAscList
2021-07-10 21:15:18 +0200 <davean> yin[m]: yes, but thats not the guarrentee
2021-07-10 21:15:30 +0200 <yin[m]> from previous responses to some questions i asked in this channel: "the code is sometimes a lie"
2021-07-10 21:15:40 +0200 <davean> its not a lie
2021-07-10 21:15:48 +0200 <davean> that is correct given the claims
2021-07-10 21:16:14 +0200 <yin[m]> so toList, toAscList and assocs are all the same?
2021-07-10 21:16:30 +0200 <davean> No, their implimentaiton is the same
2021-07-10 21:16:37 +0200 <davean> the *guarrentees* you can rely on are not
2021-07-10 21:16:43 +0200 <davean> The properties differ
2021-07-10 21:17:01 +0200 <davean> toList might have other behaviors at other times without warning
2021-07-10 21:18:01 +0200 <yin[m]> ok what am i missing here? assocs = toAscList, right?
2021-07-10 21:18:29 +0200chris-the-slurpa(~chris@148.252.35.9)
2021-07-10 21:18:40 +0200 <davean> Yes
2021-07-10 21:18:55 +0200 <yin[m]> toList shares the implementation as of now, but may change
2021-07-10 21:19:01 +0200 <davean> yes
2021-07-10 21:19:20 +0200 <yin[m]> right
2021-07-10 21:19:22 +0200 <yin[m]> thanks
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2021-07-10 21:46:58 +0200 <davean> yin[m]: BTW, it could be more subtle - fusion could be different too for example
2021-07-10 21:47:05 +0200 <davean> (It doesn't seem to be)
2021-07-10 21:48:53 +0200 <dexterfoo> how can i have "cabal v2-build" ignore "pkgconfig" section of a dependency? Right now it refuses to try to install it at all
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2021-07-10 21:57:40 +0200 <davean> dexterfoo: why do you think it could if it ignored that?
2021-07-10 21:58:16 +0200 <davean> That litterly lists requirements to perform an install
2021-07-10 21:59:07 +0200chris-the-slurpa(~chris@148.252.35.9)
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2021-07-10 22:01:06 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-10 22:02:19 +0200 <dexterfoo> because i have the library installed in the system, but i don't use pkg-config on this system
2021-07-10 22:03:15 +0200chris-the-slurpa(~chris@148.252.35.9) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-10 22:03:18 +0200 <davean> well, then it wouldn't be able to install that package, would it?
2021-07-10 22:03:28 +0200 <ahdyt> https://gist.github.com/danclien/42e54b94498f941abfff
2021-07-10 22:03:37 +0200 <davean> because pkg-config isn't a system for managing whats installed, its a system for accessing them
2021-07-10 22:03:42 +0200 <ahdyt> nice explanation of what "plain old functions" are
2021-07-10 22:03:42 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-07-10 22:03:46 +0200 <ahdyt> lol
2021-07-10 22:04:27 +0200 <ahdyt> yeah I think class instance thingy are more likely apporaching to OOP?
2021-07-10 22:04:28 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia)
2021-07-10 22:04:28 +0200 <monochrom> Without pkg-config you lose more than an "unnecessary" "protection". pkg-config is also positive in supplying -I paths and -l flags. You lose those too.
2021-07-10 22:04:33 +0200 <dexterfoo> it will because i set LDFLAGS=-lthelib
2021-07-10 22:04:34 +0200 <davean> if you want to not use pkg-config, you have to do the build by hand
2021-07-10 22:04:42 +0200juhp(~juhp@128.106.188.66) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-07-10 22:05:01 +0200 <davean> ha
2021-07-10 22:05:34 +0200 <davean> dexterfoo: if you think that'll work, great :) In a few edge cases it might even, a few
2021-07-10 22:05:45 +0200 <davean> none of the ones I've dealt with mind you
2021-07-10 22:06:00 +0200 <Clint> so you are volunteering to be a human pkg-config
2021-07-10 22:06:35 +0200 <davean> Clint: I mean, thats a human VERY incomplete pkg-config
2021-07-10 22:06:43 +0200 <davean> missing the important bits!
2021-07-10 22:07:29 +0200 <Clint> well, by the time he manages to get things to work by hand he's covered all the important bits
2021-07-10 22:07:45 +0200 <davean> I mean yes, when he does
2021-07-10 22:07:51 +0200 <davean> he'll find out that theres a lot of parts to it!
2021-07-10 22:08:01 +0200juhp(~juhp@128.106.188.66)
2021-07-10 22:08:04 +0200 <monochrom> I can respect "I am aware of manual work in lieu of pkg-confg". Then "patches welcome".
2021-07-10 22:08:09 +0200 <davean> dexterfoo: you can use Setup.hs
2021-07-10 22:08:26 +0200 <davean> monochrom: I mean, I would do, if he wasn't showing direct evidence he's unaware of what pkg-config does
2021-07-10 22:09:06 +0200 <davean> but I guess he'll learn
2021-07-10 22:09:57 +0200 <monochrom> How many minutes before the discovery of "but Setup.hs doesn't automate Haskell package dependencies"? :)
2021-07-10 22:10:44 +0200 <monochrom> Also, Setup.hs is emphatically v1, not v2.
2021-07-10 22:11:30 +0200 <mniip> how would I write `pattern Q :: (a, b) -> (c, d) -> (a, b, c, d)`
2021-07-10 22:12:32 +0200 <monochrom> I don't think pattern synonyms can be 2-ary.
2021-07-10 22:12:51 +0200 <mniip> yes they can
2021-07-10 22:12:55 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-07-10 22:13:05 +0200 <mniip> the problem is the construction/deconstruction of (,) in the middle
2021-07-10 22:13:11 +0200 <mniip> pattern Q m n <- (a, (a,) -> m, c, (c,) -> n) where Q (a, b) (c, d) = (a, b, c, d)
2021-07-10 22:13:15 +0200 <mniip> but like I don't like this
2021-07-10 22:14:52 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2021-07-10 22:15:07 +0200 <davean> monochrom: I mean you can't pass a correct env variable to an automated build either - it would end up in the wrong places!
2021-07-10 22:15:08 +0200 <maerwald> I'm not convinced that first-class support for pkg-config was a good idea in cabal
2021-07-10 22:16:25 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd)
2021-07-10 22:16:43 +0200 <davean> maerwald: I'm not aware of any other idea that has a chance of working, what would you propose?
2021-07-10 22:16:56 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-10 22:17:11 +0200madjestic(~madjestic@88-159-247-120.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-07-10 22:17:47 +0200 <maerwald> davean: rust also makes more extensive use of build scripts... so the suggestion would be: clean up the mess that is Setups.hs APIs, make it usable and pkg-config support more robust (because the native one isn't robust)
2021-07-10 22:18:10 +0200 <maerwald> so yes, if you need pkg-config, you extend Setup.hs
2021-07-10 22:18:27 +0200 <davean> Ah right, you just want it in a different place
2021-07-10 22:18:32 +0200 <maerwald> yes
2021-07-10 22:18:35 +0200 <davean> Ok, that makes sense
2021-07-10 22:18:54 +0200 <maerwald> Would fix https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/6771
2021-07-10 22:19:09 +0200 <maerwald> but atm, pkg-config db is used in the solver, so...
2021-07-10 22:19:23 +0200 <davean> Sure, sure, this is a completely reasonable argument. I'm not sure which side I'm on but its a self-consistent possition which is what I really care about.
2021-07-10 22:19:37 +0200 <davean> maerwald: I've certainly needed it in the solver!
2021-07-10 22:21:03 +0200 <maerwald> So, what does it solve? It can't find the .pc file, then tries another version?
2021-07-10 22:21:11 +0200jonathanx(~jonathan@94.234.33.210)
2021-07-10 22:21:38 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.17.130) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2021-07-10 22:22:59 +0200 <davean> Yah, I've used it to solve for a high performance implimentation vs. a pure one before. Theres other ways to do it probably, but it worked without me changing other things
2021-07-10 22:23:16 +0200 <maerwald> ah, so it switches flags too
2021-07-10 22:23:33 +0200 <maerwald> well, I hate automagic flags to begin with
2021-07-10 22:23:47 +0200 <maerwald> (there's a reason that's banned in e.g. gentoo)
2021-07-10 22:23:51 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.11.118)
2021-07-10 22:24:31 +0200 <maerwald> I'd argue the maintainer needs to put in more effort to make their sh*t buildable on all platforms
2021-07-10 22:24:56 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a1-224.dhcp.inet.fi) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-07-10 22:25:49 +0200 <davean> I mean this is what *does* make it buildable on all platforms
2021-07-10 22:25:57 +0200 <davean> This gets it the package it needs
2021-07-10 22:26:27 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot)
2021-07-10 22:26:38 +0200 <maerwald> well, it may switch from high-performance to poor-performance without you noticing (bc it runs in CI and a new release of the C lib silently dropped pkg-config support, uh)
2021-07-10 22:26:40 +0200 <davean> Not every package makes sense on every target
2021-07-10 22:27:09 +0200 <davean> Right, so it still functions correctly then!
2021-07-10 22:27:19 +0200 <maerwald> now you don't just have poor performance, but also a completely different codepath and classes of bugs
2021-07-10 22:27:21 +0200 <davean> Thats exactly what it should do - work
2021-07-10 22:28:34 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-07-10 22:28:42 +0200 <maerwald> or let's put it this way: if this happened in nix, it would be a huge bug. In cabal it's considered a feature... hmm
2021-07-10 22:29:49 +0200 <davean> Yah, which is why I get working code out of cabal more than I get it out of nix ;)
2021-07-10 22:29:58 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia)
2021-07-10 22:30:48 +0200 <maerwald> True, I'm mostly unimpressed with nix (the ecosystem), but I like to have predictable tools too, just not over-engineered ones
2021-07-10 22:31:21 +0200 <davean> I mean then fix the build plan?
2021-07-10 22:31:27 +0200 <maerwald> yeah
2021-07-10 22:32:33 +0200 <davean> cabal does more than nix does, you can restrict it.
2021-07-10 22:32:47 +0200 <davean> At least you can get what you want
2021-07-10 22:32:57 +0200 <davean> certainly doesn't make all solutions the minimum energy one
2021-07-10 22:33:01 +0200 <maerwald> the flags system is a bit wobbly overall, but I haven't made up my mind what I think about it
2021-07-10 22:33:48 +0200chris-the-slurpa(~chris@148.252.35.9)
2021-07-10 22:33:55 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a1-224.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-07-10 22:35:39 +0200 <maerwald> if you go the nix/gentoo route, then you have two sets of flags: 1. global ones (needs global orchestration to ensure consistency) and 2. local ones (the maintainer only decides about the naming and semantics)
2021-07-10 22:36:07 +0200 <davean> maerwald: why are you focused on flags?
2021-07-10 22:36:22 +0200 <maerwald> you made me think about it and now I'm OCDing on it?
2021-07-10 22:36:37 +0200 <davean> Ah, ok, because stuff I said isn't inherently related to flags
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2021-07-10 22:37:25 +0200maerwaldtakes his medicine
2021-07-10 22:39:45 +0200 <davean> I mean with the right solver
2021-07-10 22:40:12 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
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2021-07-10 22:41:46 +0200 <sm> agreed, automatic flag switching was a terrible idea
2021-07-10 22:42:42 +0200 <davean> maerwald: (aes ^>= ... | aes-ni ^>= ...) would be a perfectly sensible example in another world, with no other changes.
2021-07-10 22:44:48 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-07-10 22:46:19 +0200 <maerwald> davean: hm... || is ok, as long as it's not runtime switchable. But some package manager authors consider it bad regardless.
2021-07-10 22:47:28 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2021-07-10 22:48:16 +0200 <maerwald> I think, with ecosystems like hackage, there are slightly different concerns than with distros, where you can have review processes to ensure that certain features are not abused in a wrong way. So you want slightly less expressivity in Cabal, imo
2021-07-10 22:48:33 +0200 <davean> maerwald: as long as they export the same modules, they're equivilent code wise, and yah, options. Theres ways to approach this problem
2021-07-10 22:48:45 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
2021-07-10 22:49:50 +0200 <maerwald> imagine they throw different exceptions :>
2021-07-10 22:50:01 +0200 <maerwald> (which aren't part of PVP, haha)
2021-07-10 22:50:03 +0200phma_phma
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2021-07-10 23:43:52 +0200 <adamse> dexterfoo: you could hack it by pkg-config being an empty shell script, or download and patch the dependency and point to it with a cabal.project file
2021-07-10 23:44:30 +0200 <adamse> (maybe :) )
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