2025/10/19

2025-10-19 00:03:46 +0200SlackCoder(~SlackCode@208.26.91.234) (Quit: Leaving)
2025-10-19 00:05:42 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 00:08:21 +0200n3t(~n3t@user/n3t) (WeeChat 3.5)
2025-10-19 00:10:26 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-19 00:11:31 +0200karenw(~karenw@user/karenw) karenw
2025-10-19 00:11:55 +0200karenw_(~karenw@user/karenw) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-19 00:13:52 +0200Dhark8(~Shark8@c-174-56-102-109.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-19 00:14:37 +0200karenw(~karenw@user/karenw) (Client Quit)
2025-10-19 00:17:25 +0200Shark8(~Shark8@c-174-56-102-109.hsd1.nm.comcast.net)
2025-10-19 00:24:06 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 00:24:26 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 00:28:30 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-19 00:32:53 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-10-19 00:39:27 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 00:42:48 +0200Zemy(~Zemy@2600:100c:b0a7:4bfb:5c2b:4ff:fe20:335b)
2025-10-19 00:43:58 +0200Zemy_(~Zemy@72.178.108.235) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-19 00:44:07 +0200Zemy_(~Zemy@72.178.108.235)
2025-10-19 00:44:10 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 00:46:32 +0200mreh(~matthew@host86-146-25-125.range86-146.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-19 00:47:22 +0200Zemy(~Zemy@2600:100c:b0a7:4bfb:5c2b:4ff:fe20:335b) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 00:51:52 +0200haltsolver(~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-19 00:52:15 +0200haltsolver(~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc)
2025-10-19 00:54:14 +0200Ging_(46fea76d80@2001:bc8:1210:2cd8::470)
2025-10-19 00:57:00 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 00:57:09 +0200Ging_(46fea76d80@2001:bc8:1210:2cd8::470) ()
2025-10-19 00:58:50 +0200Ging_(46fea76d80@2001:bc8:1210:2cd8::470)
2025-10-19 01:01:41 +0200target_i(~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) (Quit: leaving)
2025-10-19 01:01:46 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 01:06:30 +0200OftenFaded25(~OftenFade@user/tisktisk) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-10-19 01:08:13 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-19 01:12:23 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 01:14:58 +0200forell(~forell@user/forell) forell
2025-10-19 01:15:15 +0200trickard_trickard
2025-10-19 01:18:55 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-10-19 01:28:17 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@n7o35ytoa19a9fdq6h6-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi)
2025-10-19 01:30:36 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 01:35:25 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-19 01:39:11 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-10-19 01:44:02 +0200hiredman(~hiredman@frontier1.downey.family) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-19 01:45:18 +0200hiredman(~hiredman@frontier1.downey.family) hiredman
2025-10-19 01:46:24 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 01:51:11 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-19 01:59:25 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2025-10-19 02:00:24 +0200takuan(~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-19 02:02:11 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 02:06:57 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-19 02:11:23 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo
2025-10-19 02:15:08 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 02:15:45 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-19 02:16:13 +0200jrm(~jrm@user/jrm) (Quit: ciao)
2025-10-19 02:17:32 +0200jrm(~jrm@user/jrm) jrm
2025-10-19 02:17:37 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo
2025-10-19 02:20:07 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-19 02:21:43 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-10-19 02:25:23 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo
2025-10-19 02:27:38 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7171983a9099d024dfa47e6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 02:29:43 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-10-19 02:30:30 +0200trickard__(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-10-19 02:30:56 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 02:31:49 +0200trickard(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-19 02:35:43 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-19 02:41:05 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) bitdex
2025-10-19 02:41:18 +0200ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-19 02:43:46 +0200comonad1(~comonad@p200300d02711d0004b6eb519787385cb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-19 02:43:59 +0200otto_s(~user@p5b044368.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-19 02:45:37 +0200otto_s(~user@p4ff274f9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2025-10-19 02:45:52 +0200comonad(~comonad@p4fe5232a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2025-10-19 02:46:43 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 02:49:43 +0200haltsolver(~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-19 02:50:06 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-10-19 02:51:07 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo
2025-10-19 02:53:14 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 02:55:19 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) bitdex
2025-10-19 02:58:57 +0200Tuplanolla1(~Tuplanoll@91-159-187-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
2025-10-19 03:00:42 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-187-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 03:04:47 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 03:09:19 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-19 03:13:47 +0200trickard__(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-19 03:14:00 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-10-19 03:18:46 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-19 03:20:10 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 03:20:39 +0200synchromesh(~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:3da8:1103:8261:15b5) synchromesh
2025-10-19 03:23:14 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) Lycurgus
2025-10-19 03:24:29 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-10-19 03:26:05 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-19 03:26:13 +0200Sgeo_(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo
2025-10-19 03:26:19 +0200synchrom1(~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:3da8:1103:8261:15b5) synchromesh
2025-10-19 03:26:50 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 03:28:50 +0200synchromesh(~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:3da8:1103:8261:15b5) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-19 03:29:30 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-19 03:30:41 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) ec
2025-10-19 03:31:20 +0200Tuplanolla1(~Tuplanoll@91-159-187-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2025-10-19 03:32:18 +0200simplystuart(~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
2025-10-19 03:34:12 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-19 03:34:37 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-10-19 03:37:45 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 03:40:17 +0200mhatta(~mhatta@www21123ui.sakura.ne.jp) (Quit: ZNC 1.10.1+deb1 - https://znc.in)
2025-10-19 03:42:50 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 03:43:18 +0200mhatta(~mhatta@www21123ui.sakura.ne.jp)
2025-10-19 03:53:33 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 03:54:51 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: alsoknownas.renjuan.org ( juan@acm.org ))
2025-10-19 03:58:18 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 03:58:54 +0200humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net)
2025-10-19 03:59:37 +0200trickard_trickard
2025-10-19 04:05:02 +0200op_4(~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-19 04:05:37 +0200op_4(~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473) op_4
2025-10-19 04:09:21 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 04:14:50 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 04:24:54 +0200trickard(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-19 04:25:08 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-10-19 04:25:38 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 04:32:07 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-10-19 04:32:47 +0200td_(~td@i53870927.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-19 04:34:41 +0200td_(~td@i5387091E.versanet.de) td_
2025-10-19 04:43:41 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 04:48:39 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-19 04:50:42 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-19 04:59:10 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 05:03:54 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-19 05:04:14 +0200gorignak(~gorignak@user/gorignak) gorignak
2025-10-19 05:14:58 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 05:19:49 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-19 05:30:07 +0200rvalue(~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-19 05:30:34 +0200rvalue(~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) rvalue
2025-10-19 05:31:22 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-19 05:31:35 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-10-19 05:37:23 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-19 05:38:29 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 05:39:16 +0200trickard_trickard
2025-10-19 05:43:22 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 05:54:16 +0200aforemny_(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cea:8700:cf12:fc7b:8ca1:78b9) aforemny
2025-10-19 05:54:17 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 05:55:03 +0200aforemny(~aforemny@i577B12DA.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-19 05:58:00 +0200bggd(~bgg@2a01:e0a:819:1510:963d:289d:e22:6ba0)
2025-10-19 05:59:22 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 06:06:06 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-10-19 06:06:49 +0200delu019(~delu019@173.28.58.189)
2025-10-19 06:08:26 +0200 <delu019> test
2025-10-19 06:09:07 +0200delu019(~delu019@173.28.58.189) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-19 06:10:05 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 06:16:24 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-19 06:16:48 +0200ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) ec
2025-10-19 06:16:58 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 06:23:37 +0200trickard(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-19 06:23:50 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-10-19 06:23:58 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 06:28:42 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 06:28:57 +0200gustrb(~gustrb@191.243.134.87) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-19 06:29:31 +0200chromoblob(~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-19 06:30:25 +0200chromoblob(~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0
2025-10-19 06:34:21 +0200gustrb(~gustrb@191.243.134.87)
2025-10-19 06:39:46 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 06:44:32 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-10-19 06:50:42 +0200inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:2d6f:54d1:d2c4:b9b2) Inline
2025-10-19 06:54:03 +0200inline_(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:d82c:6b3f:958f:cc66) Inline
2025-10-19 06:55:33 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 06:55:33 +0200inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:2d6f:54d1:d2c4:b9b2) (Killed (zinc.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)))
2025-10-19 06:55:33 +0200inline_Inline
2025-10-19 07:00:39 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-19 07:02:25 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-19 07:02:49 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-10-19 07:11:21 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 07:16:10 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 07:20:16 +0200driib318(~driib@vmi931078.contaboserver.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-19 07:22:22 +0200bggd(~bgg@2a01:e0a:819:1510:963d:289d:e22:6ba0) (Quit: std::move)
2025-10-19 07:24:57 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 07:29:36 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-19 07:29:43 +0200craunts795335385(~craunts@136.158.7.194)
2025-10-19 07:34:32 +0200synchrom1(~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:3da8:1103:8261:15b5) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-19 07:36:00 +0200synchromesh(~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:3da8:1103:8261:15b5) synchromesh
2025-10-19 07:40:47 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 07:47:29 +0200trickard_trickard
2025-10-19 07:47:38 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 07:54:28 +0200takuan(~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be)
2025-10-19 07:58:47 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 07:59:37 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-19 08:03:40 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-19 08:14:38 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 08:19:47 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-19 08:25:57 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 08:30:51 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-19 08:35:46 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) Lycurgus
2025-10-19 08:41:42 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 08:45:14 +0200Square2(~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 08:46:01 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-19 08:49:13 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: alsoknownas.renjuan.org ( juan@acm.org ))
2025-10-19 08:50:53 +0200poscat0x04(~poscat@user/poscat) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-19 08:51:08 +0200poscat(~poscat@user/poscat) poscat
2025-10-19 08:57:06 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 08:59:38 +0200gustrb(~gustrb@191.243.134.87) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 09:00:01 +0200caconym7478798(~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye)
2025-10-19 09:00:07 +0200tt12310978324354(~tt1231@2603:6010:8700:4a81:a4f6:acff:fe95:3803) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
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2025-10-19 12:34:26 +0200 <ggVGc> sometimes I wonder if GHC may, in fact, have a few too many extensions
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2025-10-19 12:52:25 +0200JimL(~quassel@89.162.16.26) JimL
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2025-10-19 13:04:26 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-10-19 13:04:49 +0200 <Rembane> It probably does, the hard part is agreeing on which extensions aren't necessary.
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2025-10-19 13:14:07 +0200 <[exa]> ggVGc: why? (as in, I guess because of reimplementation overhead?)
2025-10-19 13:19:34 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-10-19 13:25:41 +0200 <ggVGc> [exa]: more that it's hard to say what "Haskell" is, and that many extensions interact poorly with each-other, and several are iterative or parallel attempts at tackling the same/similar issues
2025-10-19 13:26:15 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2025-10-19 13:31:00 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 13:34:35 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) toonn
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2025-10-19 13:36:07 +0200Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life
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2025-10-19 13:38:37 +0200vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-19 13:39:15 +0200 <[exa]> ggVGc: haskell is what the haskell standard says :)
2025-10-19 13:39:27 +0200 <[exa]> the rest is nice extensions
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2025-10-19 14:28:11 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen
2025-10-19 14:34:09 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 14:34:45 +0200 <probie> You can always take GHC2021 as a pseudo-standard for "modern Haskell"
2025-10-19 14:41:17 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-19 14:46:28 +0200 <mreh> doesn't Stack default to 2010 or something?
2025-10-19 14:48:12 +0200 <mreh> or maybe it's hpack that does that
2025-10-19 14:49:03 +0200 <mreh> yeah, it's hpack, what does cabal do I wonder
2025-10-19 14:50:39 +0200 <mreh> https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/stable/cabal-package-description-file.html#pkg-field-default-langu…
2025-10-19 14:50:45 +0200 <mreh> it doesn't say! exciting...
2025-10-19 14:52:11 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 14:53:27 +0200ttybitnik(~ttybitnik@user/wolper) ttybitnik
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2025-10-19 15:08:34 +0200SlackCoder(~SlackCode@64-94-63-8.ip.weststar.net.ky) SlackCoder
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2025-10-19 15:13:25 +0200finsternis(~X@23.226.237.192) finsternis
2025-10-19 15:13:33 +0200AlexNoo_AlexNoo
2025-10-19 15:17:34 +0200 <davean> mreh: cabal doesn't default, its REQUIRED
2025-10-19 15:17:40 +0200inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:d82c:6b3f:958f:cc66) Inline
2025-10-19 15:19:47 +0200 <davean> Defaulting would ruin the required nature of it
2025-10-19 15:21:02 +0200Rembane(~Rembane@user/Rembane) (Quit: WeeChat 4.1.1)
2025-10-19 15:21:44 +0200Rembane(~Rembane@user/Rembane) Rembane
2025-10-19 15:22:11 +0200 <ggVGc> [exa]: yeah, I agree that is formally true, but in practice whatever GHC does is what Haskell is, in the same way that C is de-facto defined by extensions that GCC and clang both implement.
2025-10-19 15:22:12 +0200 <davean> I know weirdly it is listed as optional in the field syntax reference, thats a bit missleading. Thats the base syntax, not the semantic syntax.
2025-10-19 15:22:55 +0200daveanlooks around at all the project you use regularly that have never been compiled with gcc or clang
2025-10-19 15:22:58 +0200 <ggVGc> but yeah, GHC2021 is a nice attempt at collecting useful extensions into something coherent
2025-10-19 15:23:23 +0200 <ggVGc> davean: I think those are few?
2025-10-19 15:23:42 +0200 <davean> ggVGc: I'm not even sure you listed the most used C compilers
2025-10-19 15:23:46 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 15:24:21 +0200 <ggVGc> interesting, would say it's intel or msvc?
2025-10-19 15:24:32 +0200 <ggVGc> because I think I disagree with that for everyday software that I personally run
2025-10-19 15:24:39 +0200 <davean> msvc is DEFINETLY huge
2025-10-19 15:24:59 +0200 <davean> I didn't say it was common with what you run, I was saying you definately use stuff that is only compiled on msvc
2025-10-19 15:25:00 +0200 <ggVGc> but it's widely accepted that msvc does not properly implement C?
2025-10-19 15:25:25 +0200 <davean> icc is also a major compiler, and there are a bunch of others that are pretty major
2025-10-19 15:25:33 +0200 <davean> C is a highly multi-compiler language
2025-10-19 15:27:04 +0200 <davean> But a lot of stuff is embeded and neither gcc or clang is common in embeded at all
2025-10-19 15:27:45 +0200 <davean> Haskell is not widely varied in compilers, though there are some others which you use for good reasons. C though? No C is not at all "what is implimended by gcc and clang"
2025-10-19 15:28:26 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 15:28:26 +0200SlackCoder(~SlackCode@64-94-63-8.ip.weststar.net.ky) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 15:28:40 +0200 <davean> Seeing all the microhs patches come through is actually interesting ATM
2025-10-19 15:29:33 +0200 <ggVGc> well, okay, I'm willing to retract what I said. But, for many people writing C on linux or osx, extensions to C implemented by GCC are seen by many as standard parts of the language, I think/
2025-10-19 15:29:54 +0200 <ggVGc> but, anyway, my point was still about Haskell and GHC
2025-10-19 15:32:04 +0200SlackCoder(~SlackCode@208.26.91.234) SlackCoder
2025-10-19 15:33:58 +0200 <ggVGc> I feel like GCC is quite common in embedded nowadays though? I've only done NXP, ESP and rp2050 stuff I guess, but those toolchains are gcc-based. And NXP is quite major?
2025-10-19 15:34:13 +0200karenw(~karenw@user/karenw) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-19 15:34:17 +0200 <ggVGc> but. sure, my statement wasn't very well thought through
2025-10-19 15:38:46 +0200 <ggVGc> anyway, I appreciate that GHC has a proper extension system. Unlike Scala, which I now writre for my day job, where everything just goes into trunk.
2025-10-19 15:39:34 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 15:44:52 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-19 15:46:44 +0200 <davean> ooof I'm sorry
2025-10-19 15:46:57 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2025-10-19 15:47:47 +0200 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> We need a JVM backend in GHC :P
2025-10-19 15:48:06 +0200 <ggVGc> I think it exists?
2025-10-19 15:48:14 +0200 <ggVGc> or at least there was some project way back
2025-10-19 15:48:19 +0200 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> There was a external project
2025-10-19 15:48:20 +0200 <ggVGc> unless I am making it up
2025-10-19 15:48:26 +0200 <ggVGc> ah, right
2025-10-19 15:48:40 +0200 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> But it wasnt ever integrated into GHC proper, i think it was called etalang?
2025-10-19 15:48:53 +0200 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Kinda died due the same reason ghcjs started dying, not upstream
2025-10-19 15:48:55 +0200 <ggVGc> it may be heresy in here, but I actually would not like to write our backend in Haskell either.
2025-10-19 15:49:09 +0200 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> Heresy
2025-10-19 15:49:11 +0200 <ggVGc> it's not the type of work I prefer to use Haskell for
2025-10-19 15:49:28 +0200 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> We're gonna string you up
2025-10-19 15:50:30 +0200 <ggVGc> I appreciate it. Will give me a good excuse to leave my newborn twins with my wife for undefined duration?
2025-10-19 15:50:53 +0200trickard(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-19 15:51:33 +0200 <ggVGc> to be fair, I've never worked at a company running Haskell in production, and I am still curious how that looks day-to-day. So, my mind could be changed.
2025-10-19 15:51:51 +0200 <ggVGc> (specifically for web backend)
2025-10-19 15:52:00 +0200 <ggVGc> which, arguably, is almost all work available right now
2025-10-19 15:52:51 +0200 <ggVGc> (I am willfully ignoring anything inside the browser)
2025-10-19 15:55:22 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 15:55:30 +0200 <davean> I do all my web backend in haskell
2025-10-19 15:55:47 +0200 <davean> Easiest experience I've ever had
2025-10-19 15:56:08 +0200 <Rembane> davean: Are there any libraries that makes things particularly easy?
2025-10-19 15:56:30 +0200 <davean> Rembane: uh yes but also not sure what you'd be asking
2025-10-19 15:56:42 +0200inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:d82c:6b3f:958f:cc66) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 15:57:14 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 15:57:26 +0200 <davean> Like there are always libraries that make tasks easy - actually the reusability of code in haskell is rather important there (thank you laziness) but like thats SUPER general and I think you want something more specific
2025-10-19 15:58:11 +0200 <Rembane> davean: Sorry, I had all the context in my head and not on the screen. Context: My web development becomes really nice because I use Django when I work in Python and Phoenix and Ash when I work in Elixir. Are there any libraries like those, or don't you need them?
2025-10-19 15:58:31 +0200 <davean> defiantely don't need something like that
2025-10-19 15:58:48 +0200 <davean> there are some good routing libraries, and there are some good applicitive form libraries
2025-10-19 15:59:02 +0200 <Rembane> Give me names! :D
2025-10-19 15:59:08 +0200 <davean> where form is generalized to be the form HTTP type, not HTML
2025-10-19 15:59:36 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "")
2025-10-19 15:59:44 +0200 <davean> reform is pretty cool
2025-10-19 15:59:47 +0200qqe(~qqq@185.54.23.200)
2025-10-19 16:00:09 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-19 16:00:55 +0200 <Rembane> It looks cool, thank you
2025-10-19 16:01:10 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-10-19 16:01:20 +0200 <ggVGc> what does your deployment setup look like, davean? And what do you use for metrics reporting?
2025-10-19 16:01:51 +0200 <davean> deployment? Just have nix build the cabal package and create a systemd service
2025-10-19 16:02:33 +0200 <davean> I have a little internal library for some graceful shutdown handling, but its nothing that isn't already supported but not like cleanly hooked up
2025-10-19 16:03:43 +0200 <davean> As for metrics reporting, it depends on what metrics you care about. Like EKG is a pretty standard one.
2025-10-19 16:04:51 +0200 <davean> I don't actually find metrics to be a thing I ever look at with haskell services. There isn't ever anything to track down and they're performant. I can't recall the last time I had to pay attention to any metrics for them
2025-10-19 16:05:05 +0200 <davean> One of the nice parts of haskell is never having problems
2025-10-19 16:05:30 +0200 <davean> god I spent so much time staring at metrics with python services ...
2025-10-19 16:06:10 +0200 <ggVGc> Yeah, we also deploy as a systemd service at my current job, which I think is fine.
2025-10-19 16:06:21 +0200 <ggVGc> how do you know if you have or don't have problems without metrics?
2025-10-19 16:06:23 +0200 <davean> well the nix part is more significant
2025-10-19 16:07:01 +0200 <ggVGc> what I mean is things like number of open DB connections, query times, HTTP response times, statistics on raturn codes etc.
2025-10-19 16:07:07 +0200 <davean> ggVGc: well think about the sort of problems you might have, most of them are error logs. Like a DB is down or something
2025-10-19 16:07:10 +0200 <ggVGc> concurrent request numbers
2025-10-19 16:07:38 +0200 <davean> well, my haskell code already uses a fixed DB pool and trades them out, so the only issue that could happen there is a DB error, thats a log issue not a metric issue
2025-10-19 16:08:20 +0200morj(~morj@user/morj) morj
2025-10-19 16:08:51 +0200 <davean> don't need metrics for "if this ever happens, trip an alert on the first occurence"
2025-10-19 16:08:57 +0200 <ggVGc> for me, metrics is not something that has to do with errors/issues. It's a way to know things about the service
2025-10-19 16:09:14 +0200 <ggVGc> how do you know how many users you have, for example, at during which hours?
2025-10-19 16:10:12 +0200 <davean> I mean that would be a stats issue, though also why would I care? How many users I have overall might matter, but why do I care which hours generally? And if I did I can get that out of analytics, but which hour is never really relivent to me
2025-10-19 16:10:16 +0200 <davean> personally
2025-10-19 16:10:37 +0200 <davean> I'm actually SLIGHTLY interested in that for launches
2025-10-19 16:10:47 +0200 <davean> to see service uptake rate
2025-10-19 16:11:10 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 16:11:11 +0200 <davean> That I do look at some EKG based stuff for
2025-10-19 16:11:43 +0200inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:99b9:102d:fb79:f90b) Inline
2025-10-19 16:13:10 +0200 <davean> There is the standard tracing protocols if you want more detailed stuff
2025-10-19 16:16:00 +0200 <davean> but like things like HTTP response times, they're well characturized, if it goes above 10ms its just instantly tripping an alert.
2025-10-19 16:18:07 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-19 16:18:23 +0200 <davean> Actually the only service I run that *isn't* nice is hackage, and I REALLY REALLY want to finish a replacement for it
2025-10-19 16:18:42 +0200 <davean> hatz hackage I does, hatz it
2025-10-19 16:20:40 +0200 <davean> hackage reminds me of running python services :(
2025-10-19 16:21:00 +0200 <davean> partially because it keeps all its data in memory, transactionally, and doesn't retire references until requests complete.
2025-10-19 16:21:12 +0200 <davean> So modular, so very very bad code design
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2025-10-19 19:06:43 +0200inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:504d:3076:81f0:8f9d) Inline
2025-10-19 19:08:51 +0200 <tabaqui> Do you know of a place where I can create an RSS feed or email notifications for selected package updates? I'm somewhat on the bleeding edge now, so I'd like to know whenever any of the dependencies are updated.
2025-10-19 19:11:11 +0200 <tabaqui> hackage what's new isn't quite that - too much data
2025-10-19 19:12:22 +0200SlackCoder(~SlackCode@208.26.91.234) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2025-10-19 19:13:29 +0200Pozyomka(~pyon@user/pyon) pyon
2025-10-19 19:16:52 +0200SlackCoder(~SlackCode@64-94-63-8.ip.weststar.net.ky) SlackCoder
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2025-10-19 19:20:38 +0200 <davean> tabaqui: see "The package feed feature" in the hackage API
2025-10-19 19:20:52 +0200 <davean> /package/:package.rss
2025-10-19 19:21:18 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2025-10-19 19:22:52 +0200 <tabaqui> davean: thanks, it will do
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2025-10-19 20:32:19 +0200Haskeller0x00(~Haskeller@38.49.92.193)
2025-10-19 20:33:39 +0200Haskeller0x00(~Haskeller@38.49.92.193) ()
2025-10-19 20:33:39 +0200Haskeller0x00(~Haskeller@38.49.92.193)
2025-10-19 20:35:55 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> Hey y'all! I heard this was the place to go if one needs help with haskell?
2025-10-19 20:38:21 +0200 <Rembane> Haskeller0x00: Hello! This is true!
2025-10-19 20:39:53 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> Uh.. I need some help with my capstone project.
2025-10-19 20:40:29 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> some background... I'm trying to implement the RGN monad discussed here: https://www.cs.cornell.edu/people/fluet/research/rgn-monad/JFP06/jfp06.pdf and I have basically hit a roadblock.
2025-10-19 20:40:52 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 20:41:23 +0200ss4(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) wootehfoot
2025-10-19 20:41:41 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> I don't think I have enough haskell experience to implement it from scratch (i'm assuming I'll have to hack the compiler to do that) so I'm instead implementing this as a wrapper around ST.
2025-10-19 20:42:08 +0200target_i(~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) target_i
2025-10-19 20:42:37 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2025-10-19 20:43:46 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> I have so far been able to define the basic functions, but haskell does not like it when I try to wrap runST
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2025-10-19 20:49:02 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> Uh... can anyone help me with understanding what I'm doing wrong here?
2025-10-19 20:50:48 +0200 <geekosaur> wrapping runST isn't generally a good idea, because if you wrap individual functions you'll find you can't carry anything between invocations of runST (by design)
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2025-10-19 20:52:15 +0200 <geekosaur> right at the bottom of page 3 of the paper you linked, it tells you why runST won't work
2025-10-19 20:53:17 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> Uh, even if I were to define RGN as newtype RGN s r a = RGN (ST s a)?
2025-10-19 20:53:52 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> Also, if that is not going to work, then how would I go about implementing this?
2025-10-19 20:54:42 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) wootehfoot
2025-10-19 20:55:57 +0200 <geekosaur> see section 2 of the paper, they go into detail why encoding the RGN monad via ST won't work
2025-10-19 20:56:07 +0200ss4(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-19 20:56:25 +0200 <geekosaur> (I suspect you took it as saying how to encode RGN via ST, but in fact it does so and then demonstrates why the result doesn't work)
2025-10-19 20:57:22 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> Yes, I saw that but I thought that was at least a good starting point to understand what I need to do to encode this.
2025-10-19 20:57:32 +0200 <geekosaur> "Does this suffice to encode region-based languages, where runRGN corresponds to letregion? In short, it does not."
2025-10-19 20:57:56 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-10-19 20:58:13 +0200 <geekosaur> it's a starting point but it's one that demonstrates that soemthing else is needed; that something else not only modifies the compiler, it modifies System F (the type system)
2025-10-19 20:58:53 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 20:59:08 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> hmm... because when my advisor emailed one of the authors of the paper, their response was this: "There wasn't ever an implementation of RGN. You could certainly write RGN (with all the types) as a wrapper around ST; it would essentially just treat the region parameter as phantom. The meaningful implementation would really all be in terms of the
2025-10-19 20:59:09 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> memory management, but, AFAIK, even the ST monad doesn't actually eagerly delete STVar's at the end of runST; they are just "normal" heap allocated objects that will get garbage collected when unreachable. Although it seems as though they would necessarily be unreachable at the end of runST, it's a little more complicated with lazy evaluation,
2025-10-19 20:59:09 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> because the ST computation may still be "running" as the runST result is lazily evaluated."
2025-10-19 20:59:23 +0200 <geekosaur> note that runST and company do not require modifications to the type system! they just make everything polymorphic in an untouchable rank-2 value, which therefore can't escape runST
2025-10-19 20:59:57 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> yup, it took me a couple hours, but. I understood how the "s" works.
2025-10-19 21:00:02 +0200caconym7478798(~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye)
2025-10-19 21:00:43 +0200caconym7478798(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
2025-10-19 21:01:27 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> He (the author) explained that what he meant was regions will live within the same state meaning state won't itself be nested.
2025-10-19 21:02:09 +0200morj(~morj@user/morj) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2025-10-19 21:04:10 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-19 21:04:37 +0200 <geekosaur> a few other things: (1) even with eager evaluation, GC of values from runST won't necessarily happen immediately; only reference-counting GC implementations do that. so even strict values hang around (which regularly bites people relying on GC to free e.g. Handles and thereby close their associated files)
2025-10-19 21:05:30 +0200 <geekosaur> (2) I'm not sure how that statement by one of the authors squares with the assertion in section 1 of the paper that ST isn't sufficient
2025-10-19 21:05:51 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> yup, I think that's what he meant with the last sentence in his response.
2025-10-19 21:06:22 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> So what he essentially explained was, if I were to have each region as a separate state, I'd be in trouble.
2025-10-19 21:06:49 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> but, that does not mean I can have different regions within the same state.
2025-10-19 21:06:54 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> *cannot
2025-10-19 21:07:21 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> I think that's what he meant by "phantom region parameter".
2025-10-19 21:08:27 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> What my understanding has been so far about his response is, the "region" will only be defined in the type system and will not have an actual memory definition.
2025-10-19 21:12:31 +0200inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:504d:3076:81f0:8f9d) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2025-10-19 21:13:12 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) peterbecich
2025-10-19 21:13:40 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Quit: Leaving)
2025-10-19 21:14:41 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 21:15:22 +0200inline(~inline@ip-178-202-059-161.um47.pools.vodafone-ip.de) Inline
2025-10-19 21:17:46 +0200flipflops(~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 21:18:08 +0200 <geekosaur> that part is correct, yes, as the "s" in "ST s a" is (effectively) a phantom tag with no data associated
2025-10-19 21:18:18 +0200jreicher(~user@user/jreicher) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-19 21:18:31 +0200karenw(~karenw@user/karenw) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-19 21:18:50 +0200jreicher(~user@user/jreicher) jreicher
2025-10-19 21:19:00 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> So, we can do the same for region, no? It can all be essentially just within the same "s"?
2025-10-19 21:19:34 +0200 <geekosaur> but "n a region-based language, it is critical to allocate locations in and read locations from an outer region while in the scope of an inner region. For example, an essential idiom in region-based languages is to enter a letregion in which temporary data is allocated, while reading input from and allocating output in an outer region; upon leaving the letregion, the temporary data is reclaimed, but the input and output data are still
2025-10-19 21:19:34 +0200 <geekosaur> available."
2025-10-19 21:19:45 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-19 21:20:29 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> Also, if we read further, they explain blockST and liftST (or at least RGN equivalents of these 2) which have their own little problems, the primary being that it'll only allow chaining in a certain sequence.
2025-10-19 21:20:39 +0200scula(~scula@user/scula) scula
2025-10-19 21:20:43 +0200 <geekosaur> (there is no way to, using ST as RGN, give an inner runST the same "s" as an outer one)
2025-10-19 21:21:12 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> but there is not "inner" runSt.
2025-10-19 21:21:35 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> It is just one single runST. what is "inner" is region. That's what got me lol
2025-10-19 21:21:55 +0200qqe(~qqq@185.54.23.200) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2025-10-19 21:22:28 +0200 <geekosaur> let me rephrase that: the whole point of ST being that you can't pass "s" around, you cant have access to both an inner an an outer "s" at the same time
2025-10-19 21:22:50 +0200 <geekosaur> the inner "letregion" would be replaced by an inner runST
2025-10-19 21:22:58 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> oh?
2025-10-19 21:23:02 +0200 <geekosaur> if you din't do that, you can't have nested regions/resources
2025-10-19 21:23:09 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> see now that's the part I'm confused about.
2025-10-19 21:23:20 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> I understand how the 's' would not be shareable
2025-10-19 21:23:25 +0200 <geekosaur> but the paper asserts that doing that is critical to region-based allocation
2025-10-19 21:24:07 +0200jreicher(~user@user/jreicher) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-19 21:24:09 +0200inline(~inline@ip-178-202-059-161.um47.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-19 21:24:16 +0200inline_(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:d6a:132:a003:3008) Inline
2025-10-19 21:24:19 +0200 <geekosaur> you might be able to say "well, just use one bug region and put up with stuff remaining allocated beyond its lifetime", but you'll probably have to redo most f the paper to support that usage instead of the one they're using that assumes nested regions are possible
2025-10-19 21:24:30 +0200 <geekosaur> *big region
2025-10-19 21:24:39 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2025-10-19 21:24:43 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> I know :( ... that's why I'm confused about the author's response :(
2025-10-19 21:25:55 +0200wbrawner(~wbrawner@static.56.224.132.142.clients.your-server.de) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-10-19 21:25:59 +0200 <geekosaur> also I just reached the part of the paper talking blockST/importST/liftST… and why they aren't sufficient either
2025-10-19 21:26:10 +0200wbrawner(~wbrawner@static.56.224.132.142.clients.your-server.de) wbrawner
2025-10-19 21:26:22 +0200weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-19 21:26:23 +0200 <geekosaur> so yeh, I'm also confused by that response, as I said earlier. it directly contradicts the paper
2025-10-19 21:26:30 +0200 <geekosaur> in at least two places
2025-10-19 21:27:32 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> I'm completely lost at this point.
2025-10-19 21:27:51 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> (and worried that I might fail my capstone :()
2025-10-19 21:30:51 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 21:31:57 +0200 <int-e> I think I get the response. IIUC, this is purely for operational semantics, after all type checking is complete and types are erased.
2025-10-19 21:32:36 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> Yes, I thought this was the case
2025-10-19 21:32:40 +0200 <int-e> So you still can't do it inside Haskell, well, not without unsafeCoerce.
2025-10-19 21:32:47 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> drat
2025-10-19 21:33:26 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen
2025-10-19 21:33:32 +0200inline_Inline
2025-10-19 21:34:12 +0200fp(~Thunderbi@2001-14ba-6e24-3000--190.rev.dnainternet.fi) fp
2025-10-19 21:35:40 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-19 21:36:20 +0200 <geekosaur> yeh, I was thinking that the assertion that liftST wouldn't help meant that something more fundamental was wrong
2025-10-19 21:36:45 +0200 <geekosaur> with the whole idea of using ST to simulate regions
2025-10-19 21:37:03 +0200 <geekosaur> you might get something that behaved on the surface like it, but underneath was doing the wrong things
2025-10-19 21:37:17 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> Is that what he was hinting at?
2025-10-19 21:37:28 +0200 <geekosaur> dunno
2025-10-19 21:37:38 +0200myxokephale(~myxos@syn-065-025-110-175.res.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-19 21:38:28 +0200 <geekosaur> but saying that regions via ST needed to access both ST contexts and then saying providing liftST or importST wouldn't be enough just really strongly hints that ST isn't strong enough to actually provide region support
2025-10-19 21:39:49 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> I mean at this point I'll take something that works on the surface like regions 😅
2025-10-19 21:43:44 +0200 <geekosaur> int-e: worth noting is that liftST was SPJ's suggestion (and yes, it'd be unsafeCoerce#… but so is unsafeSTtoIO)
2025-10-19 21:44:11 +0200fp(~Thunderbi@2001-14ba-6e24-3000--190.rev.dnainternet.fi) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-19 21:44:38 +0200 <Shark8> Hi all. I'm working on a proposal for the Ada programming language, essentially adding a meta-language (or formalizing/generalizing the meta-language of the generic-formal parameter, turning them inside out). And Haskell's kinds/higher-kinded types seem to articulate what I want, though I'm not entirely sure, as my experience with Haskell is (a) reading about it, and (b) reading papers that use it.
2025-10-19 21:46:29 +0200SlackCoder(~SlackCode@64-94-63-8.ip.weststar.net.ky) SlackCoder
2025-10-19 21:46:38 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 21:48:01 +0200apache2(apache2@anubis.0x90.dk) apache2
2025-10-19 21:50:27 +0200yegor(~yegor@user/yegor) (WeeChat 4.6.3)
2025-10-19 21:51:01 +0200Maxdamantus(~Maxdamant@user/maxdamantus) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-19 21:51:01 +0200kaol(~kaol@94-237-45-144.nl-ams1.upcloud.host) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-19 21:51:01 +0200apache(apache2@anubis.0x90.dk) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-19 21:51:20 +0200Maxdamantus(~Maxdamant@user/maxdamantus) Maxdamantus
2025-10-19 21:51:24 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-19 21:52:42 +0200kaol(~kaol@94-237-45-144.nl-ams1.upcloud.host)
2025-10-19 21:52:49 +0200int-e(~noone@int-e.eu) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-19 21:53:02 +0200int-e(~noone@int-e.eu) int-e
2025-10-19 21:53:49 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) Lycurgus
2025-10-19 21:54:37 +0200barrucadu(~barrucadu@carcosa.barrucadu.co.uk) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-19 21:55:06 +0200barrucadu(~barrucadu@carcosa.barrucadu.co.uk) barrucadu
2025-10-19 21:55:42 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> So, so far, I have encoded the functions using ST (and type erasure). runRGN required me to use unsafeCoerce and I kind of have a bad feeling about it. In a related question, if I actually do decide to hack the compiler, where would I begin?
2025-10-19 21:56:22 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> uh, except for letRGN that is... its definition still eludes my dumb ass 😅
2025-10-19 21:56:40 +0200wbrawner(~wbrawner@static.56.224.132.142.clients.your-server.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-19 21:58:27 +0200 <geekosaur> I think you can't do this without unsafeCoerce. the best you can do is hide it in the implementation, with a type that prevents its use for anything but this
2025-10-19 21:58:46 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-19 21:59:14 +0200 <Lycurgus> hack the compiler? I'd master TH 1st.
2025-10-19 21:59:42 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> hmm... related question: is it a good idea to post code here (and risk plagiarism)?
2025-10-19 21:59:43 +0200 <Lycurgus> and then i still wouldn
2025-10-19 21:59:54 +0200 <geekosaur> gonna take more than that, as I said earlier you need to modify the typechecker if you're implementing that paper
2025-10-19 22:00:36 +0200 <monochrom> It's either unsafeCoerce or modify GHC source code.
2025-10-19 22:00:39 +0200 <geekosaur> as for where you start, it's https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/commentary
2025-10-19 22:00:59 +0200 <monochrom> OK OK, or a plugin.
2025-10-19 22:00:59 +0200trickard_trickard
2025-10-19 22:01:07 +0200 <Lycurgus> maybe mastery and hacking are opposites
2025-10-19 22:01:34 +0200 <geekosaur> between the Commentary and Notes in the source, ghc internals are very well documented
2025-10-19 22:01:56 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> Thank you so much y'all!
2025-10-19 22:02:17 +0200 <geekosaur> also re plagiarism, I think simply linking the paper as needed is sufficient
2025-10-19 22:02:26 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 22:03:42 +0200 <Haskeller0x00> okay, gotchu :)
2025-10-19 22:06:31 +0200wbrawner(~wbrawner@static.56.224.132.142.clients.your-server.de) wbrawner
2025-10-19 22:06:53 +0200 <Lycurgus> is wiki.haskell.org down or moved?
2025-10-19 22:07:20 +0200fp(~Thunderbi@2001-14ba-6e24-3000--190.rev.dnainternet.fi) fp
2025-10-19 22:07:29 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-10-19 22:07:56 +0200 <darkling> Down for me.
2025-10-19 22:08:08 +0200 <geekosaur> likewise
2025-10-19 22:08:31 +0200 <geekosaur> just asked in -infrastructure
2025-10-19 22:08:46 +0200 <monochrom> It should not have moved. It's probably down.
2025-10-19 22:09:10 +0200 <geekosaur> moved is somewhat possible, there were some rearrangements relatively recently due to a security issue
2025-10-19 22:09:23 +0200 <Lycurgus> yes, i got a partical response b4 it went complelty belly up showing the detested nginx
2025-10-19 22:09:23 +0200 <geekosaur> but there should be a redirect in that case
2025-10-19 22:09:47 +0200Haskeller0x00(~Haskeller@38.49.92.193) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2025-10-19 22:09:49 +0200 <geekosaur> right, load just got 502 finally
2025-10-19 22:09:54 +0200 <Lycurgus> *partial
2025-10-19 22:12:00 +0200gorignak(~gorignak@user/gorignak) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-19 22:12:34 +0200 <geekosaur> here's another thing from the paper that says runST isn't enough: "The problem is that the explicit connection between the outer and inner regions in the product type enforces a total order on regions, which leaks into the types of region allocated values."
2025-10-19 22:13:24 +0200 <geekosaur> if you use liftST instead of importST, this translates to "you must know exactly how many nested liftST are needed to reach the correct outer computation"
2025-10-19 22:13:50 +0200 <Lycurgus> leak
2025-10-19 22:14:36 +0200 <geekosaur> (unlike mtl, there's no way to infer it from the type the way e.g. liftIO does)
2025-10-19 22:15:19 +0200 <Lycurgus> ok igess if 'leak' can be a shorthard for any vibe related concepts full nonun phrase
2025-10-19 22:15:26 +0200 <Lycurgus> *noun
2025-10-19 22:17:22 +0200fp1(~Thunderbi@89-27-10-140.bb.dnainternet.fi) fp
2025-10-19 22:18:14 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 22:18:36 +0200fp(~Thunderbi@2001-14ba-6e24-3000--190.rev.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-19 22:18:36 +0200fp1fp
2025-10-19 22:18:51 +0200 <int-e> looks like the wiki is better now?
2025-10-19 22:19:21 +0200 <geekosaur> if it's crawler overload, it probably depends on whether you can sneak in between the load
2025-10-19 22:19:33 +0200 <Lycurgus> confirmed
2025-10-19 22:20:05 +0200 <geekosaur> mm, also working here now
2025-10-19 22:20:24 +0200 <geekosaur> so maybe it wasn't crawlers, just something that got missed during the recent move or sth
2025-10-19 22:21:21 +0200 <geekosaur> btgw I am getting a strong sense of "an effects system-based ST might be able to do this"
2025-10-19 22:21:36 +0200 <geekosaur> but ST in GHC is based on IO
2025-10-19 22:21:48 +0200esph(~weechat@user/esph) esph
2025-10-19 22:22:49 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-19 22:22:58 +0200 <geekosaur> meaning any mechanism to access outer contexts will be some form of liftST (viz. liftIO), which isnt flexible enough
2025-10-19 22:28:31 +0200malte(~malte@mal.tc) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-19 22:29:10 +0200karenw(~karenw@user/karenw) karenw
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2025-10-19 22:31:10 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: alsoknownas.renjuan.org ( juan@acm.org ))
2025-10-19 22:31:19 +0200fp(~Thunderbi@2001-14ba-6e24-3000--190.rev.dnainternet.fi) fp
2025-10-19 22:31:34 +0200takuan(~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-19 22:32:09 +0200fp(~Thunderbi@2001-14ba-6e24-3000--190.rev.dnainternet.fi) (Client Quit)
2025-10-19 22:32:23 +0200fp(~Thunderbi@89-27-10-140.bb.dnainternet.fi) fp
2025-10-19 22:36:16 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 22:38:19 +0200flipflops(~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc)
2025-10-19 22:38:29 +0200fp(~Thunderbi@89-27-10-140.bb.dnainternet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-19 22:40:18 +0200malte(~malte@mal.tc) malte
2025-10-19 22:40:36 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) siracusa
2025-10-19 22:41:09 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-19 22:47:27 +0200fp(~Thunderbi@89-27-10-140.bb.dnainternet.fi) fp
2025-10-19 22:47:46 +0200SlackCoder(~SlackCode@64-94-63-8.ip.weststar.net.ky) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-19 22:51:56 +0200SlackCoder(~SlackCode@208.26.91.234) SlackCoder
2025-10-19 22:52:01 +0200qqe(~qqq@185.54.23.200)
2025-10-19 22:54:13 +0200nihilazo(~nihilazo@host86-150-176-16.range86-150.btcentralplus.com) nihilazo
2025-10-19 22:54:43 +0200halloy9957(~halloy995@ip72-208-127-103.ph.ph.cox.net)
2025-10-19 22:54:51 +0200 <geekosaur> although I just realized that the only possible test for which context to use is to see if something is typeable within it, which can't be done at runtime (no type information) nor at compile time (may be dynamic)
2025-10-19 22:57:25 +0200 <nihilazo> hi, I'm trying to use the sqlite-simple library to interface with a sqlite database from a haskell program (currently in the experimentation phase) and I'd like to convert from SQLite rows into my own types. The library provides a FromRow typeclass with a function that defines how to do this, using the `field` function to get each field. The
2025-10-19 22:57:26 +0200 <nihilazo> examples on the hackage docs and their github (https://github.com/nurpax/sqlite-simple) use an applicative style for this, fromRow = TestField <$> field <*> field. But if the row contains eg. 12 columns (like in my project) would the best way to do this still be like, CustomType <$> field <*> field <*> field... (for 12 lines) or is there a better
2025-10-19 22:57:26 +0200 <nihilazo> way?
2025-10-19 22:57:58 +0200 <nihilazo> (the approach of doing it that way for 12 columns does work but feels notably messy. It seems to be what all other tutorials online for the library do though)
2025-10-19 23:01:31 +0200 <nihilazo> although given that this is also how all the instances of fromRow in the library's own code are structured: https://github.com/nurpax/sqlite-simple/blob/master/Database/SQLite/Simple/FromRow.hs I'm unsure if there is a better way
2025-10-19 23:01:33 +0200fp1(~Thunderbi@2001-14ba-6e24-3000--190.rev.dnainternet.fi) fp
2025-10-19 23:02:26 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) Lycurgus
2025-10-19 23:02:46 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) ()
2025-10-19 23:04:13 +0200fp(~Thunderbi@89-27-10-140.bb.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-19 23:04:13 +0200fp1fp
2025-10-19 23:07:21 +0200 <monochrom> The other option is to use GHC.Generics or Template Haskell to make the computer write those 12 lines for you.
2025-10-19 23:07:52 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 23:07:57 +0200inline_(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:d6a:132:a003:3008) Inline
2025-10-19 23:08:34 +0200jreicher(~user@user/jreicher) jreicher
2025-10-19 23:10:49 +0200Inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:d6a:132:a003:3008) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2025-10-19 23:10:57 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) Lycurgus
2025-10-19 23:12:19 +0200inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:d4aa:fbec:e75d:918d) Inline
2025-10-19 23:12:31 +0200inline_(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:d6a:132:a003:3008) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-19 23:13:13 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-19 23:14:32 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: alsoknownas.renjuan.org ( juan@acm.org ))
2025-10-19 23:14:32 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: dnsl)
2025-10-19 23:17:00 +0200 <nihilazo> monochrom: there seems to be an implementation for generics in the code for fromrow, but I'm not sure how to then use it with my own types
2025-10-19 23:19:57 +0200 <nihilazo> wait, it seems following their (slightly oddly worded so it didn't get it at first) advice to add deriving (Generic) on the type and add an empty instance of fromRow worked.
2025-10-19 23:20:15 +0200 <nihilazo> apologies for my failure to correctly read documentation, re-reading it solved the problem
2025-10-19 23:20:37 +0200halloy9957kk-strat
2025-10-19 23:22:13 +0200 <nihilazo> thanks for the pointer to generics, got me to re-read that bit and found how it worked.
2025-10-19 23:22:16 +0200nihilazo(~nihilazo@host86-150-176-16.range86-150.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-10-19 23:23:09 +0200 <monochrom> I wasn't saying it in a clear way either. :)
2025-10-19 23:23:39 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-19 23:28:49 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2025-10-19 23:31:11 +0200fp(~Thunderbi@2001-14ba-6e24-3000--190.rev.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2025-10-19 23:35:27 +0200target_i(~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) (Quit: leaving)