2025/10/15

2025-10-15 00:02:38 +0200fp(~Thunderbi@2001-14ba-6e24-3000--190.rev.dnainternet.fi) (Quit: fp)
2025-10-15 00:03:06 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2025-10-15 00:04:01 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 00:05:39 +0200Googulator46(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-10-15 00:05:41 +0200Googulator22(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-10-15 00:05:55 +0200craunts79533538(~craunts@136.158.7.194) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-15 00:05:57 +0200craunts79533538(~craunts@136.158.7.194)
2025-10-15 00:09:06 +0200ystael(~ystael@user/ystael) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-15 00:14:46 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-15 00:19:33 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-15 00:21:43 +0200sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Quit: sord937)
2025-10-15 00:23:24 +0200gustrb(~gustrb@191.243.134.87) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-15 00:25:43 +0200target_i(~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) (Quit: leaving)
2025-10-15 00:27:49 +0200lambdabot(~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 00:29:07 +0200lambdabot(~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot) lambdabot
2025-10-15 00:29:07 +0200ChanServ+v lambdabot
2025-10-15 00:29:50 +0200Zemy(~Zemy@2600:100c:b012:bef4:7c61:4eff:fe00:6419)
2025-10-15 00:30:46 +0200haltsolver(~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc)
2025-10-15 00:33:37 +0200mreh(~matthew@host86-146-25-125.range86-146.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-15 00:35:28 +0200Pozyomka(~pyon@user/pyon) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-15 00:37:57 +0200Pozyomka(~pyon@user/pyon) pyon
2025-10-15 00:40:52 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 00:44:35 +0200 <energizer> could there be a typeclass for scanl?
2025-10-15 00:46:20 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-15 00:49:56 +0200Zemy_(~Zemy@mobile-107-80-206-40.mycingular.net)
2025-10-15 00:50:04 +0200Zemy(~Zemy@2600:100c:b012:bef4:7c61:4eff:fe00:6419) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-15 00:50:25 +0200Zemy(~Zemy@2600:100c:b012:bef4:305d:b5ff:feac:8852)
2025-10-15 00:53:19 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 00:54:12 +0200Zemy_(~Zemy@mobile-107-80-206-40.mycingular.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-15 00:54:26 +0200kaskal(~kaskal@2a02:8388:1a8b:7d00:da7b:74b4:ea7f:2207) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2025-10-15 00:54:46 +0200kaskal(~kaskal@2a02:8388:1a8b:7d00:7ab8:bbe9:1c71:85ea) kaskal
2025-10-15 00:56:01 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) bitdex
2025-10-15 00:56:24 +0200Zemy_(~Zemy@mobile-107-80-206-52.mycingular.net)
2025-10-15 00:58:41 +0200ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-15 00:59:09 +0200Zemy(~Zemy@2600:100c:b012:bef4:305d:b5ff:feac:8852) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-15 01:01:27 +0200 <monochrom> Tautologically, generalizations always exist.
2025-10-15 01:02:03 +0200 <monochrom> But how many people actually need one? Statistically, almost zero.
2025-10-15 01:04:23 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-15 01:05:58 +0200emmanuelux(~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) emmanuelux
2025-10-15 01:07:13 +0200ttybitnik(~ttybitnik@user/wolper) ttybitnik
2025-10-15 01:09:20 +0200 <EvanR> so you're saying there's a chance
2025-10-15 01:09:27 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-15 01:09:43 +0200 <EvanR> isn't the typeclass for stuff like scanl Traversable?
2025-10-15 01:09:59 +0200Zemy(~Zemy@2600:100c:b012:bef4:c0cf:bbff:fec8:7691)
2025-10-15 01:10:28 +0200Core7767(~Zemy@syn-192-198-252-043.biz.spectrum.com)
2025-10-15 01:12:01 +0200Zemy_(~Zemy@mobile-107-80-206-52.mycingular.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 01:13:44 +0200 <geekosaur> I don't think so? `Traversable` is via `Applicative` (originally it generalized `mapM`), `scanl` is a modified fold without any additional `Applicative` or `Monad`
2025-10-15 01:14:14 +0200gustrb(~gustrb@191.243.134.87)
2025-10-15 01:14:29 +0200 <EvanR> you right
2025-10-15 01:14:42 +0200Zemy(~Zemy@2600:100c:b012:bef4:c0cf:bbff:fec8:7691) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-15 01:19:46 +0200Zemy(~Zemy@2600:100c:b012:bef4:a8c8:b8ff:fee4:4537)
2025-10-15 01:20:10 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-15 01:20:40 +0200Googulator46(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-10-15 01:20:41 +0200Googulator60(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-10-15 01:21:42 +0200Core7767(~Zemy@syn-192-198-252-043.biz.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-15 01:25:03 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 01:26:10 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo
2025-10-15 01:32:40 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-15 01:37:39 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-15 01:48:13 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-15 01:51:57 +0200ttybitnik(~ttybitnik@user/wolper) (Quit: Fading out...)
2025-10-15 01:52:16 +0200Zemy_(~Zemy@mobile-107-80-206-4.mycingular.net)
2025-10-15 01:53:23 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 01:54:05 +0200 <jackdk> The `scanl` at `base:Data.List.NonEmpty.scanl` is generalised to consume any `Foldable`
2025-10-15 01:54:15 +0200L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah
2025-10-15 01:55:58 +0200Core5536(~Zemy@2600:100c:b012:bef4:1c89:39ff:fe81:66ea)
2025-10-15 01:56:14 +0200Zemy(~Zemy@2600:100c:b012:bef4:a8c8:b8ff:fee4:4537) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 01:57:23 +0200synchromesh(~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:6c29:d20b:9891:7dea) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-15 01:58:12 +0200cheater(~fuck@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-15 01:58:17 +0200cheater-(~fuck@84-115-208-145.cable.dynamic.surfer.at)
2025-10-15 01:58:44 +0200synchromesh(~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:68ee:5421:f441:d3ef) synchromesh
2025-10-15 01:58:47 +0200Zemy(~Zemy@76.184.46.188)
2025-10-15 01:58:48 +0200Square(~Square4@user/square) Square
2025-10-15 01:59:03 +0200Zemy_(~Zemy@mobile-107-80-206-4.mycingular.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 02:01:54 +0200Square3(~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 02:02:25 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e71719931c47ad226c4c8e20.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-10-15 02:03:07 +0200Core5536(~Zemy@2600:100c:b012:bef4:1c89:39ff:fe81:66ea) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-15 02:03:34 +0200vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-15 02:04:01 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-15 02:05:37 +0200Googulator60(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-10-15 02:05:40 +0200Googulator61(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-10-15 02:05:45 +0200vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal
2025-10-15 02:06:50 +0200Zemy_(~Zemy@2600:100c:b012:bef4:30a3:e1ff:fe62:c17)
2025-10-15 02:09:16 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 02:09:49 +0200Zemy(~Zemy@76.184.46.188) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 02:10:59 +0200jreicher(~user@user/jreicher) jreicher
2025-10-15 02:11:05 +0200Zemy(~Zemy@mobile-107-80-206-4.mycingular.net)
2025-10-15 02:12:24 +0200Core8291(~Zemy@2600:100c:b012:bef4:5ced:d8ff:fe63:790)
2025-10-15 02:13:01 +0200Zemy_(~Zemy@2600:100c:b012:bef4:30a3:e1ff:fe62:c17) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-15 02:13:02 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-187-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Tuplanolla
2025-10-15 02:13:24 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-15 02:15:09 +0200Zemy(~Zemy@mobile-107-80-206-4.mycingular.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-15 02:15:40 +0200Googulator61(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-10-15 02:15:51 +0200Googulator61(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-10-15 02:19:49 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-15 02:21:12 +0200gustrb(~gustrb@191.243.134.87) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-15 02:24:34 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-15 02:24:47 +0200trickard(~trickard@cpe-54-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-15 02:25:00 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-54-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-10-15 02:30:45 +0200gustrb(~gustrb@191.243.134.87)
2025-10-15 02:32:44 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-15 02:32:53 +0200Zemy(~Zemy@76.184.41.21)
2025-10-15 02:35:24 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) califx
2025-10-15 02:35:26 +0200Googulator61(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-10-15 02:35:35 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-15 02:35:40 +0200Googulator61(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-10-15 02:35:41 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-15 02:37:02 +0200Core8291(~Zemy@2600:100c:b012:bef4:5ced:d8ff:fe63:790) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 02:38:42 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo
2025-10-15 02:42:42 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 02:47:13 +0200otto_s(~user@p4ff27382.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 02:48:58 +0200otto_s(~user@p5de2f68d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2025-10-15 02:50:12 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-15 02:52:42 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:c19d:50a:4f2f:38d7) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-15 02:53:36 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-15 02:58:33 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 02:58:48 +0200haltsolver(~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-15 02:59:10 +0200haltsolver(~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc)
2025-10-15 03:09:24 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-15 03:10:35 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-10-15 03:14:17 +0200haltsolver(~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-15 03:15:34 +0200L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Read error: Connection timed out)
2025-10-15 03:16:06 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-15 03:18:19 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Quit: WeeChat 4.7.1)
2025-10-15 03:18:48 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) peterbecich
2025-10-15 03:19:25 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-10-15 03:19:49 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Client Quit)
2025-10-15 03:20:41 +0200Googulator61(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-10-15 03:20:43 +0200Googulator21(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-dc7a-fb6e-71bb-aaf0.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-10-15 03:24:50 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-10-15 03:25:32 +0200bgg(~bgg@2a01:e0a:819:1510:438b:91ce:16bb:429f) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-15 03:27:27 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-15 03:28:18 +0200img(~img@user/img) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2025-10-15 03:29:36 +0200img(~img@user/img) img
2025-10-15 03:30:57 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-15 03:32:34 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 03:39:07 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-54-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-15 03:39:23 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-54-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-10-15 03:40:44 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp)
2025-10-15 03:43:14 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-15 03:48:25 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 03:55:23 +0200vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-15 03:56:33 +0200GdeVolpiano(~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2025-10-15 03:58:04 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-187-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 03:59:03 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-15 04:03:52 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-15 04:09:49 +0200GdeVolpiano(~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) GdeVolpiano
2025-10-15 04:10:58 +0200gustrb(~gustrb@191.243.134.87) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-15 04:14:49 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-15 04:15:20 +0200weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2025-10-15 04:15:50 +0200inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:e9a3:cc45:338f:8e4a) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-15 04:19:35 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 04:20:45 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-15 04:23:09 +0200bgg(~bgg@2a01:e0a:819:1510:a422:7a58:5231:4299)
2025-10-15 04:25:24 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-15 04:26:06 +0200ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Quit: ChaiTRex)
2025-10-15 04:28:06 +0200ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) ChaiTRex
2025-10-15 04:34:51 +0200L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah
2025-10-15 04:34:53 +0200td_(~td@i53870911.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 04:36:22 +0200 <Square> I had a unpleasant behavior of nix flakes + cabal that might not be fixable or trivial. 1) I made some changes in flake A. 2) started a nix dev shell in B that depnds on A. 3) Run B using `cabal run` wo seeing the changes made to A.
2025-10-15 04:36:28 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-15 04:36:37 +0200td_(~td@i53870918.versanet.de) td_
2025-10-15 04:37:25 +0200 <Square> Turns out cabal wasn't detecting changes in A and utilized old build results.
2025-10-15 04:41:47 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-15 04:42:27 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-15 04:44:31 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 04:46:06 +0200lol__jcarpenter2
2025-10-15 04:50:49 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-54-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-15 04:51:02 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-54-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-10-15 04:52:14 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-15 04:59:15 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 05:05:41 +0200bgg(~bgg@2a01:e0a:819:1510:a422:7a58:5231:4299) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-15 05:08:05 +0200mochie(~mochie@93.124.228.5)
2025-10-15 05:11:32 +0200Square(~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-15 05:17:36 +0200Guest89(~Guest89@2600:8801:7188:3000:4cf7:b5d5:8319:15eb)
2025-10-15 05:19:21 +0200Guest89(~Guest89@2600:8801:7188:3000:4cf7:b5d5:8319:15eb) (Client Quit)
2025-10-15 05:19:51 +0200Zemy_(~Zemy@2600:100c:b057:2ff1:3c2f:aeff:fe86:8858)
2025-10-15 05:20:16 +0200Zemy(~Zemy@76.184.41.21) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-15 05:22:37 +0200Zemy(~Zemy@76.184.41.21)
2025-10-15 05:26:28 +0200Zemy_(~Zemy@2600:100c:b057:2ff1:3c2f:aeff:fe86:8858) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 05:31:10 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-15 05:33:55 +0200inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:141f:e122:6bd3:e75) Inline
2025-10-15 05:36:05 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2025-10-15 05:48:46 +0200jrm(~jrm@user/jrm) (Quit: ciao)
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2025-10-15 07:38:33 +0200Arsen(arsen@gentoo/developer/managarm.dev.Arsen) Arsen
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2025-10-15 08:05:21 +0200Enrico9(~Enrico63@host-82-59-110-109.retail.telecomitalia.it) Enrico63
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2025-10-15 08:20:08 +0200hc(~hc@mail.hce.li) hc
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2025-10-15 08:28:05 +0200Maeda(~Maeda@91-161-10-149.subs.proxad.net) Maeda
2025-10-15 08:28:58 +0200 <dminuoso> @tell Square what kind of changes did you make to that flake?
2025-10-15 08:28:58 +0200 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
2025-10-15 08:30:30 +0200Tri(~tnguyen@69.74.159.34) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2025-10-15 08:48:45 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 08:52:53 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2025-10-15 08:54:25 +0200 <_________> @pl \w -> length . filter (==w) . words
2025-10-15 08:54:26 +0200 <lambdabot> (length .) . (. words) . filter . (==)
2025-10-15 08:58:34 +0200annamalai(~annamalai@157.32.210.114) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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2025-10-15 09:00:50 +0200caconym7478798(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
2025-10-15 09:01:40 +0200 <fgidim> huh, i guess lambdabot really does turn functions tacit. cool
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2025-10-15 10:21:23 +0200annamalai(~annamalai@157.32.214.152) annamalai
2025-10-15 10:28:32 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: alsoknownas.renjuan.org ( juan@acm.org ))
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2025-10-15 10:33:04 +0200halloy7365(~halloy736@2404:4400:5446:4e00:b445:d572:a953:7834)
2025-10-15 10:35:59 +0200kuribas`(~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) kuribas
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2025-10-15 10:59:17 +0200 <mreh> is it not possible to mix ApplicativeDo syntax in with normal do syntax or something?
2025-10-15 11:00:48 +0200 <mreh> do { x <- foo; y <- (runA $ do { z <- bar; w <- baz; return (f z w) }); return y } -- I've got this kind of situation going on.
2025-10-15 11:02:17 +0200 <mreh> actually, I've got something like `bar x` going on... so many that precludes ApplicativeDo
2025-10-15 11:05:25 +0200 <tomsmeding> mreh: if it's `bar x`, how would you want that to be converted to applicative syntax?
2025-10-15 11:05:50 +0200 <mreh> tomsmeding: I guess it can't, right?
2025-10-15 11:06:06 +0200 <mreh> silly me
2025-10-15 11:10:37 +0200inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:141f:e122:6bd3:e75) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-15 11:14:19 +0200 <tomsmeding> not saying that ApplicativeDo is perfect, but I think in this case it's correct
2025-10-15 11:14:52 +0200chele(~chele@user/chele) chele
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2025-10-15 12:44:33 +0200titusg(~user@31.94.22.246) titusg
2025-10-15 12:45:36 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2025-10-15 12:46:26 +0200craunts795335385(~craunts@136.158.7.194) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2025-10-15 12:46:44 +0200 <titusg> how can I make cabal repl load the modules from my project, without having to do it with :m +?
2025-10-15 12:50:40 +0200 <[exa]> titusg: as in, you'd want it to do the :m +... for you automatically?
2025-10-15 12:50:58 +0200Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) Unicorn_Princess
2025-10-15 12:50:58 +0200 <[exa]> there was a shortcut for that somewhere
2025-10-15 12:52:03 +0200 <titusg> [exa]: yes
2025-10-15 12:53:16 +0200 <titusg> It has always bugged me that it isn't default behaviour. Not sure why else you'd be starting cabal repl.
2025-10-15 12:54:08 +0200koz(~koz@121.99.240.58) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 12:58:05 +0200halloy7365(~halloy736@2404:4400:5446:4e00:b445:d572:a953:7834) (Quit: halloy7365)
2025-10-15 12:58:27 +0200koz(~koz@121.99.240.58)
2025-10-15 13:01:42 +0200comerijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2025-10-15 13:01:59 +0200 <[exa]> titusg: I'm usually doing it to try some stuff with the package environment, not necessarily the modules
2025-10-15 13:02:19 +0200 <[exa]> (also the modules may conflict in the namespace)
2025-10-15 13:02:39 +0200 <[exa]> anyway there's a way to do that iirc, I saw it somewhere
2025-10-15 13:03:41 +0200 <[exa]> maybe something like this? https://discourse.haskell.org/t/define-custom-command-for-a-cabal-repl-session/12088/2
2025-10-15 13:04:02 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-15 13:04:09 +0200 <titusg> fair enough. I'm usually just wanting to play around with the code I'm working on...
2025-10-15 13:05:25 +0200 <titusg> thx for finding that, I'll have a play :)
2025-10-15 13:06:37 +0200 <[exa]> yeah I never used it but looks like you can just stuff custom commands to a local .ghci
2025-10-15 13:09:04 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:3bfc:a749:138a:b4ac)
2025-10-15 13:14:01 +0200 <tomsmeding> titusg: cabal repl loads the first module listed in the cabal file for that component
2025-10-15 13:14:48 +0200 <tomsmeding> also, in case it's helpful: try `:set prompt "%s> "` to always show what modules are currently in scope
2025-10-15 13:15:00 +0200 <tomsmeding> in GHC 9.0 the default changed away from that and I hate it
2025-10-15 13:15:26 +0200 <tomsmeding> also on :r it re-adds that first-module-in-the-component back into the scope list
2025-10-15 13:16:13 +0200 <tomsmeding> (I actually have `:set prompt "\ESC[1m\STX%s>\ESC[0m\STX "` to make the prompt more visible, too)
2025-10-15 13:22:12 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen
2025-10-15 13:24:31 +0200 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: Regarding ApplicativeDo, Im not sure how `bar x` would be an issue - function application by itself is not forbidden inside ApplicativeDo.
2025-10-15 13:24:47 +0200 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: well the x is bound in the outer do
2025-10-15 13:24:52 +0200 <dminuoso> So?
2025-10-15 13:25:00 +0200 <tomsmeding> ... fair point
2025-10-15 13:25:18 +0200 <tomsmeding> (\x -> ...) <$> foo
2025-10-15 13:25:48 +0200 <tomsmeding> if the 'return y' also referenced x, then we'd be in trouble
2025-10-15 13:25:56 +0200 <tomsmeding> I think?
2025-10-15 13:26:03 +0200 <tomsmeding> yeah
2025-10-15 13:26:05 +0200 <dminuoso> Even then, I dont see why
2025-10-15 13:26:31 +0200 <dminuoso> I mean it may be that there is a very naive heuristic that just looks at x and sees that its bound in do-notation.
2025-10-15 13:26:47 +0200 <dminuoso> But because its the outer do-notation, as far as the inner do-notation is concerned is just some variable.
2025-10-15 13:27:04 +0200 <tomsmeding> do { x <- foo; y <- f x; return (g x y) }
2025-10-15 13:27:10 +0200 <tomsmeding> how would you write that in applicative combinators?
2025-10-15 13:27:26 +0200 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: That's not related.
2025-10-15 13:27:35 +0200 <dminuoso> Lets ignore the outer do notation for a second.
2025-10-15 13:27:38 +0200tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:cdf:654a:2a7f:261) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-10-15 13:27:51 +0200 <tomsmeding> I was assuming that the ApplicativeDo is supposed to apply to the outer do
2025-10-15 13:28:13 +0200 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: Given the mention of runA I think they wanted it in the inner one.
2025-10-15 13:28:17 +0200 <tomsmeding> _right_
2025-10-15 13:28:23 +0200 <tomsmeding> okay that's weird
2025-10-15 13:28:46 +0200 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: But perfectly in line with how frequently ApplicativeDo fails. Not that it should.
2025-10-15 13:29:26 +0200 <dminuoso> Sometimes I wonder whether a `doA` with an explicit error instead of silent monad degradation would have been better.
2025-10-15 13:30:03 +0200 <tomsmeding> works for me though
2025-10-15 13:30:03 +0200 <dminuoso> An example like this should work more easily
2025-10-15 13:30:19 +0200 <tomsmeding> https://play.haskell.org/saved/9myEpOls
2025-10-15 13:30:21 +0200 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: Who knows, I've experienced so many ApplicativeDo -> Monad degradations in the past.
2025-10-15 13:30:39 +0200 <tomsmeding> I never use ApplicativeDo
2025-10-15 13:30:55 +0200sajenim(~sajenim@user/sajenim) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-10-15 13:31:08 +0200 <dminuoso> I usually use it for optparse-applicative.
2025-10-15 13:32:17 +0200chromoblob(~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-15 13:32:37 +0200chromoblob(~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0
2025-10-15 13:34:20 +0200 <dminuoso> (And I still have optparse-selective on my todo stack)
2025-10-15 13:35:38 +0200Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life
2025-10-15 13:36:42 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-15 13:36:58 +0200Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
2025-10-15 13:37:12 +0200 <tomsmeding> ah right, makes sense
2025-10-15 13:42:53 +0200fp1(~Thunderbi@wireless-86-50-141-225.open.aalto.fi) fp
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2025-10-15 13:46:18 +0200inline(~inline@ip-178-202-059-161.um47.pools.vodafone-ip.de) Inline
2025-10-15 13:47:50 +0200weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2025-10-15 13:49:26 +0200tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:cdf:654a:2a7f:261)
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2025-10-15 13:57:56 +0200trickard___(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-10-15 13:58:23 +0200 <[exa]> dminuoso: re optparse-selective, that would be a rewrite of optparse?
2025-10-15 13:58:31 +0200m1dnight(~m1dnight@d8D861A17.access.telenet.be) m1dnight
2025-10-15 13:58:37 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-53-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-15 13:58:51 +0200 <[exa]> dminuoso: (perhaps related: https://github.com/pcapriotti/optparse-applicative/pull/505 )
2025-10-15 13:58:59 +0200trickard___trickard
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2025-10-15 14:08:41 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2025-10-15 14:13:54 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-15 14:15:05 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2025-10-15 14:18:16 +0200MelodyOwO(~MelodyOwO@user/MelodyOwO) MelodyOwO
2025-10-15 14:19:24 +0200fp(~Thunderbi@wireless-86-50-141-225.open.aalto.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-10-15 14:21:08 +0200 <dminuoso> [exa]: Yes, some years ago I started a huge rewrite for no practical reason other than idealism.
2025-10-15 14:21:21 +0200 <dminuoso> But because it was just idealism there was no inherent need that kept me going.
2025-10-15 14:25:21 +0200vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2025-10-15 14:42:24 +0200 <kuribas`> I use applicativeDo for records.
2025-10-15 14:42:45 +0200 <kuribas`> Much more readable and robust than positional.
2025-10-15 14:43:20 +0200 <kuribas`> do foo <- fooExpr; bar <- barExpr; ... ; pure (MyRecord {..})
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2025-10-15 17:14:54 +0200nogloff(uid464985@id-464985.tinside.irccloud.com)
2025-10-15 17:15:19 +0200 <dminuoso> kuribas`: You can use let-in for that usecase though, however.
2025-10-15 17:16:36 +0200gustrb(~gustrb@191.243.134.87)
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2025-10-15 17:28:18 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2025-10-15 17:28:53 +0200 <mauke> dminuoso: how so?
2025-10-15 17:29:10 +0200 <ski> not really
2025-10-15 17:31:01 +0200 <dminuoso> % let f1 = "foo"; f2 = 2; in Foo{..}
2025-10-15 17:31:01 +0200 <yahb2> Foo {f1 = "foo", f2 = 2}
2025-10-15 17:31:37 +0200 <ski> that doesn't help when you want to perform actions to generate the values of the fields, though
2025-10-15 17:31:38 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-10-15 17:32:01 +0200 <dminuoso> Sure, but then you're no longer picking ApplicativeDo for just RecordWildcards, but for whatever it is that you're doing.
2025-10-15 17:32:25 +0200 <ski> yes
2025-10-15 17:32:30 +0200 <ski> [> MyRecord { foo = [<fooExpr>],bar = [<barExpr>] } <] -- my "(local) reflective effect syntax"
2025-10-15 17:32:42 +0200 <int-e> I think the "positional" variant would be Foo <$> makeF1 <*> makeF2
2025-10-15 17:32:49 +0200 <ski> yes
2025-10-15 17:32:55 +0200 <dminuoso> Ah I see what you're getting at.
2025-10-15 17:34:00 +0200 <dminuoso> I've tried to use it as well because its less brittle than positional, but bitten over and over again with slightly nuanced versions and then ApplicativeDo would just break apart. :(
2025-10-15 17:34:14 +0200 <dminuoso> I really want a doA.
2025-10-15 17:34:40 +0200 <ski> i should try working a bit more on my TH implementation of my syntax
2025-10-15 17:35:01 +0200 <int-e> . o O ( ado )
2025-10-15 17:35:27 +0200 <dminuoso> int-e: Something tells me that ado has more uses in hackage than doA. :-)
2025-10-15 17:35:48 +0200 <ski> `ado' <https://hackage.haskell.org/package/applicative-quoters-0.1.0.8/docs/Control-Applicative-QQ-ADo.html>
2025-10-15 17:35:50 +0200 <dminuoso> Who knows, maybe neither are used - I should get a hackage copy at some point.
2025-10-15 17:36:31 +0200 <ski> what would the `doA' do differently ?
2025-10-15 17:36:56 +0200 <int-e> dminuoso: but "much doA about nothing" just isn't the same
2025-10-15 17:36:57 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2025-10-15 17:37:09 +0200 <dminuoso> :)
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2025-10-15 18:02:54 +0200 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: how would doA help you?
2025-10-15 18:03:19 +0200Digitdigitteknohippie
2025-10-15 18:03:25 +0200digitteknohippieDigit
2025-10-15 18:03:39 +0200 <tomsmeding> getting an error because doA can't manage to construct an Applicative expression for it, or getting an error because Monad is not satisfied -- how are these fundamentally different, apart from being potentially confusing to a newcomer?
2025-10-15 18:03:48 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2025-10-15 18:23:22 +0200ljdarj(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2025-10-15 18:25:19 +0200 <Leary> tomsmeding: The `Applicative` could have a `Monad` instance you don't want to use.
2025-10-15 18:25:35 +0200 <tomsmeding> dminuoso was talking about optparse-applicative though
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2025-10-15 18:31:04 +0200 <Leary> dminuoso: You could use `A.do` with `QualifiedDo`, where `module A` provides `join` and `>>=` imposing `Unsatisfiable` constraints.
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2025-10-15 19:35:19 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) wootehfoot
2025-10-15 19:36:59 +0200 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: Well thats what I ended up using as its reliable enough for that (because it has no Monad instance)
2025-10-15 19:37:12 +0200 <dminuoso> Though in combination with some features like pattern matching it still breaks.
2025-10-15 19:37:38 +0200 <dminuoso> i.e. when you do stuff like `Only a <- ...`
2025-10-15 19:41:21 +0200 <tomsmeding> sure, but doA wouldn't fix that, would it?
2025-10-15 19:41:26 +0200 <tomsmeding> it would just throw a different error
2025-10-15 19:45:22 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) tzh
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2025-10-15 19:57:03 +0200 <EvanR> it's interesting how something "as simple as"
2025-10-15 19:57:12 +0200 <EvanR> :t Control.Exception.catches
2025-10-15 19:57:13 +0200 <lambdabot> IO a -> [Control.Exception.Handler a] -> IO a
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2025-10-15 19:57:42 +0200 <EvanR> requires understanding "existential" style polymorphism
2025-10-15 19:57:57 +0200 <EvanR> so much for simplehaskell.org
2025-10-15 20:01:09 +0200 <EvanR> (existential style wouldn't be so bad if it was explained somewhere obvious when you're trying to learn the language. It's unfortunately not in "a gentle introduction" xD)
2025-10-15 20:03:04 +0200Axman6(~Axman6@user/axman6) Axman6
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2025-10-15 20:15:34 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-10-15 20:18:41 +0200 <monochrom> Unfortunately the Gentle Introduction predated existential types.
2025-10-15 20:19:26 +0200 <monochrom> Or fortunately? I feel like the problem is caused by mentioning existential types, not by not mentioning.
2025-10-15 20:19:37 +0200chromoblob(~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-15 20:20:11 +0200 <tomsmeding> which problem?
2025-10-15 20:20:40 +0200 <monochrom> Misusing existential types, and/or taking it as the go-to technique.
2025-10-15 20:20:44 +0200chromoblob(~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0
2025-10-15 20:21:02 +0200 <EvanR> the haddock for catches just say you need to use the Handler type, and shows an example, but does not mention the existential or what that means, just assumes you know how to use it
2025-10-15 20:21:24 +0200 <EvanR> and now I only just noticed xD
2025-10-15 20:21:41 +0200 <tomsmeding> yeah the haddocks for catches is pretty good
2025-10-15 20:24:19 +0200 <monochrom> SomeException also assumes you know existential types.
2025-10-15 20:24:32 +0200 <EvanR> eh?
2025-10-15 20:24:56 +0200spewstew
2025-10-15 20:25:01 +0200 <monochrom> SomeException is an existential type.
2025-10-15 20:25:16 +0200 <EvanR> fromException and toException are how you convert the exceptions, how they work isn't really required knowledge
2025-10-15 20:25:38 +0200 <EvanR> but if you try to construct the example for catches you run into extentions needing to be enabled
2025-10-15 20:25:58 +0200n0um3n4(~n0um3n4@104.28.199.134)
2025-10-15 20:26:17 +0200stewveggie_stew
2025-10-15 20:26:22 +0200 <EvanR> and perhaps still not working if you customize it wrong, and violate some rules of existential types
2025-10-15 20:26:45 +0200 <EvanR> like the my brain exploded escaped skolem or something
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2025-10-15 20:38:41 +0200GdeVolpiano(~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) GdeVolpiano
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2025-10-15 20:46:18 +0200EvanR(~EvanR@user/evanr) EvanR
2025-10-15 20:47:04 +0200GdeVolpiano(~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) GdeVolpiano
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2025-10-15 20:55:28 +0200satler(~satler@user/satler) satler
2025-10-15 20:59:59 +0200 <tomsmeding> monochrom: one can see SomeException as an existential type, but in a programmer's brain, it's more a dynamic type
2025-10-15 21:00:01 +0200caconym7478798(~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye)
2025-10-15 21:00:28 +0200vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal
2025-10-15 21:00:34 +0200 <tomsmeding> a dynamic type is a statically untyped thing that you interact with using functions that may fail if the dynamic type is wrong
2025-10-15 21:00:41 +0200 <tomsmeding> it may be _implemented_ using an existential
2025-10-15 21:00:43 +0200caconym7478798(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
2025-10-15 21:01:01 +0200 <tomsmeding> existentials, on the other hand, introduce skolem type variables into your type system
2025-10-15 21:01:14 +0200 <tomsmeding> from a suitably abstract perspective they're the same, but in practice they're not :p
2025-10-15 21:02:53 +0200 <EvanR> a sufficiently abstract perspective is indistinguishable from magic
2025-10-15 21:05:29 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-15 21:05:45 +0200 <EvanR> an existential type used wrong breaks at compile time
2025-10-15 21:05:51 +0200 <EvanR> a dynamic type used wrong breaks at runtime
2025-10-15 21:06:10 +0200 <EvanR> don't try to convince me otherwise
2025-10-15 21:07:09 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) califx
2025-10-15 21:08:33 +0200inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:810a:b569:d13b:c6fe) (Quit: Leaving)
2025-10-15 21:08:34 +0200 <monochrom> Interpreters unify compile time with runtime.
2025-10-15 21:10:26 +0200satler(~satler@user/satler) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-15 21:11:04 +0200 <EvanR> moving the time posts
2025-10-15 21:11:15 +0200 <monochrom> :)
2025-10-15 21:12:16 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-15 21:12:41 +0200 <EvanR> dynamic languages have been positing a set theory theory of types, where they have the set of all possible values upfront
2025-10-15 21:13:10 +0200 <EvanR> not sure what polymorphism or existentials would mean there
2025-10-15 21:14:38 +0200 <EvanR> (the set of all possible values probably includes some wilds stuff like javascript's ability for arrays to contain themselves in non trivial ways)
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2025-10-15 21:23:01 +0200Hobbyboy(Hobbyboy@hobbyboy.co.uk) Hobbyboy
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2025-10-15 21:23:48 +0200dyniec(~dyniec@dybiec.info) (Killed (osmium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)))
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2025-10-15 21:24:15 +0200ladyfriday(~robert@what.i.hope.is.not.a.tabernaevagant.es) mrmonday
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2025-10-15 21:29:25 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-15 21:30:39 +0200tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:cdf:654a:2a7f:261) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-10-15 21:31:11 +0200yahb2(~yahb2@user/tomsmeding/bot/yahb2) yahb2
2025-10-15 21:31:11 +0200ChanServ+v yahb2
2025-10-15 21:31:55 +0200arandombit(~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit
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2025-10-15 21:34:02 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-15 21:35:19 +0200FANTOM(~fantom@90.244.183.5)
2025-10-15 21:36:57 +0200op_4(~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473) op_4
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2025-10-15 21:38:11 +0200ProofTechnique_(sid79547@id-79547.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2025-10-15 21:39:31 +0200vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal
2025-10-15 21:43:00 +0200ft(~ft@p4fc2a207.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) ft
2025-10-15 21:43:38 +0200fgarciafgidim
2025-10-15 21:44:32 +0200tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:d983:2af2:5deb:9bbb)
2025-10-15 21:48:46 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@ipservice-092-210-206-067.092.210.pools.vodafone-ip.de) CiaoSen
2025-10-15 21:51:44 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-187-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Tuplanolla
2025-10-15 21:55:35 +0200Googulator(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-648b-10cf-62d2-2877.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-10-15 21:58:17 +0200Maeda(~Maeda@91-161-10-149.subs.proxad.net) (Quit: leaving)
2025-10-15 21:58:46 +0200tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:d983:2af2:5deb:9bbb) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-10-15 22:05:05 +0200chexum_(~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-15 22:05:52 +0200chexum(~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) chexum
2025-10-15 22:08:39 +0200 <tomsmeding> % data Fix f = In (f (Fix f)) ; deriving instance (forall a. Show a => Show (f a)) => Show (Fix f)
2025-10-15 22:08:39 +0200 <yahb2> <no output>
2025-10-15 22:08:47 +0200 <tomsmeding> % let x = In [x] in x
2025-10-15 22:08:47 +0200 <yahb2> In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [I...
2025-10-15 22:09:12 +0200tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:d983:2af2:5deb:9bbb)
2025-10-15 22:09:33 +0200 <monochrom> Would you like to s/data/newtype/ ? :)
2025-10-15 22:09:57 +0200gustrb(~gustrb@191.243.134.87)
2025-10-15 22:10:16 +0200 <tomsmeding> % newtype Fix f = In (f (Fix f)) ; deriving instance (forall a. Show a => Show (f a)) => Show (Fix f)
2025-10-15 22:10:16 +0200 <yahb2> <no output>
2025-10-15 22:10:18 +0200 <tomsmeding> % let x = In [x] in x
2025-10-15 22:10:18 +0200 <yahb2> In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [In [I...
2025-10-15 22:10:34 +0200 <tomsmeding> more efficient pointlessness!
2025-10-15 22:10:57 +0200 <mreh> looks pointless to me :P
2025-10-15 22:11:01 +0200 <monochrom> Infinite types lead to Infinity Wars. >:)
2025-10-15 22:12:01 +0200haltsolver(~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc)
2025-10-15 22:15:39 +0200karenw(~karenw@user/karenw) karenw
2025-10-15 22:16:06 +0200 <mreh> I think I just made a new pb. Three day refactor, compiles, two runtime errors, and then everything just works.
2025-10-15 22:16:14 +0200 <tomsmeding> hm, perhaps I should have written `repeat x` instead of `[x]`, for more recursion. :)
2025-10-15 22:16:25 +0200 <tomsmeding> mreh: congrats!
2025-10-15 22:18:44 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) siracusa
2025-10-15 22:23:37 +0200tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:d983:2af2:5deb:9bbb) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-10-15 22:25:36 +0200Googulator(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-648b-10cf-62d2-2877.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
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2025-10-15 22:26:40 +0200ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-10-15 22:30:30 +0200inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:590e:ee4d:f63f:13ad) Inline
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2025-10-15 22:41:12 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-15 22:41:26 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-10-15 22:42:43 +0200ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) ChaiTRex
2025-10-15 22:44:00 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-10-15 22:44:15 +0200xmyth(~xmyth@user/xmyth) xmyth
2025-10-15 22:46:12 +0200inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:590e:ee4d:f63f:13ad) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-15 22:47:22 +0200inline(~inline@ip-178-202-059-161.um47.pools.vodafone-ip.de) Inline
2025-10-15 22:50:28 +0200inline(~inline@ip-178-202-059-161.um47.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-15 22:51:36 +0200inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:1c9a:31b4:1f4:c0dc) Inline
2025-10-15 22:53:27 +0200 <monochrom> Hot take: Lean/Agda programming is type tetris, Haskell dependent type programming is Proxy tetris. :)
2025-10-15 22:53:56 +0200 <geekosaur> I'd say singleton tetris
2025-10-15 22:54:40 +0200 <tomsmeding> I concur with singleton tetris
2025-10-15 22:54:45 +0200 <monochrom> (I have been doing that for type-assured modulus arithmetic, e.g., a+b `mod` m, where m is determined by a phantom type.)
2025-10-15 22:54:54 +0200 <tomsmeding> if you can suffice with Proxy then you aren't doing enough tetris
2025-10-15 22:55:50 +0200 <monochrom> OK, I have also been doing withDict tetris. Is that OK? :)
2025-10-15 22:56:05 +0200 <monochrom> (It's the only reason why Proxy suffices.)
2025-10-15 22:56:07 +0200inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:1c9a:31b4:1f4:c0dc) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-10-15 22:56:11 +0200 <tomsmeding> oh you're taking the typeclasses approach to type-level haskell masochism
2025-10-15 22:56:24 +0200 <int-e> monochrom: you need to be carefule when doing that; if things fit too well, your code disappears.
2025-10-15 22:56:34 +0200 <monochrom> haha
2025-10-15 22:57:01 +0200 <EvanR> GHC deletes your code if it type checks
2025-10-15 22:57:09 +0200 <EvanR> in the modern version of that bug
2025-10-15 22:57:21 +0200 <tomsmeding> I find singletons more verbose but also more powerful; my experience (doing type tetris) is that if the inference system is not clever enough to do what you want, you're suddenly in a bind, whereas with singletons it's limited by your programming (and tetris) skills only
2025-10-15 22:57:34 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-15 22:58:07 +0200 <EvanR> there are ways to trick the type class system into "inferring" things right
2025-10-15 22:58:26 +0200 <EvanR> which is where it gets dicey to understand
2025-10-15 23:00:39 +0200Googulator8(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-648b-10cf-62d2-2877.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-10-15 23:00:39 +0200Googulator63(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-648b-10cf-62d2-2877.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-10-15 23:01:20 +0200 <tomsmeding> suppose you have two type-level naturals that you want to add. If they're peano SNats and there's no library function for that, you just do the stupid peano addition
2025-10-15 23:01:37 +0200 <tomsmeding> if they're type-level Nats with KnownNat constraints around, how are you going to conjure up a KnownNat (a + b)?
2025-10-15 23:01:43 +0200 <tomsmeding> you... don't
2025-10-15 23:01:45 +0200ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-15 23:01:51 +0200 <tomsmeding> unless you bring in a GHC plugin that does it for you
2025-10-15 23:02:06 +0200ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) ChaiTRex
2025-10-15 23:02:23 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-15 23:02:56 +0200 <monochrom> No, I have (a+b) `mod` (natVal (Proxy :: Proxy m)). Only the modulus needs come from a type-level Nat.
2025-10-15 23:03:10 +0200 <tomsmeding> right, so maybe you're in the fragment where typeclass-based masochism works very well :)
2025-10-15 23:03:21 +0200 <tomsmeding> if you manage to stay there, it's a good place to be
2025-10-15 23:04:00 +0200 <monochrom> For that one, KnownNat, SomeNat and someNatVal suffice.
2025-10-15 23:04:22 +0200inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:dc0:d7:5433:321f:bfae) Inline
2025-10-15 23:07:02 +0200 <tomsmeding> another example where singletons worked for me where typeclasses didn't: I was writing a interpreter-ish thing where the object language had some built-in concept of a monoid. I wanted to implement a code transformation in there that also modified types; among other things, it mapped monoid types to different monoid types. If you represent monoidness with a Monoid constraint in the AST, then how
2025-10-15 23:07:04 +0200 <tomsmeding> are you going to magic up a Monoid constraint on the (type family transformed) type? Not sure. If the types in the AST are singletons and the zero/plus operations are just functions that recurse on the singleton and do the right thing (the other side of the expression problem), then you just mirror the type family on the singleton values, and you apply the zero/plus functoins to the result and
2025-10-15 23:07:05 +0200 <monochrom> But next, I also have (Z mod prime)[x] mod (x^2+x+1). I am not going to define a singleton type for polynomials! So I use withDict if the polynomial is a runtime input. (I have a class Modulus m where type Carrier m; modulus :: p m -> Carrier m. In that example, modulus _ = x^2+x+1.)
2025-10-15 23:07:06 +0200 <tomsmeding> everything just works
2025-10-15 23:07:12 +0200 <tomsmeding> sorry for the wall
2025-10-15 23:07:52 +0200trickard_trickard
2025-10-15 23:08:04 +0200gustrb(~gustrb@191.243.134.87) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-15 23:09:37 +0200xmyth(~xmyth@user/xmyth) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-15 23:10:48 +0200weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-15 23:13:22 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-15 23:14:45 +0200mal1lieven
2025-10-15 23:15:28 +0200AlexNoo_AlexNoo
2025-10-15 23:16:33 +0200Everything(~Everythin@46.96.48.125) Everything
2025-10-15 23:18:24 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-15 23:20:28 +0200trickard(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-15 23:20:54 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-10-15 23:22:39 +0200Everything(~Everythin@46.96.48.125) (Quit: leaving)
2025-10-15 23:24:04 +0200inline_(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:b1ed:dc4f:eb19:541d) Inline
2025-10-15 23:25:41 +0200Googulator8(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-648b-10cf-62d2-2877.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-10-15 23:25:42 +0200Googulator45(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-648b-10cf-62d2-2877.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-10-15 23:27:43 +0200inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:dc0:d7:5433:321f:bfae) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-10-15 23:28:20 +0200inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:1db9:c9bb:4c1f:b2b7) Inline
2025-10-15 23:28:28 +0200inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:1db9:c9bb:4c1f:b2b7) (Client Quit)
2025-10-15 23:28:44 +0200inline_(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:b1ed:dc4f:eb19:541d) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-15 23:29:11 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-15 23:30:25 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
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2025-10-15 23:36:00 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2025-10-15 23:37:00 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-10-15 23:38:32 +0200inline(~inline@2a02:8071:57a1:1260:a05d:8279:eac0:a03a) Inline
2025-10-15 23:39:04 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-10-15 23:43:41 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2025-10-15 23:44:56 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-10-15 23:45:23 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-10-15 23:45:49 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)