2025/09/22

2025-09-22 00:00:07 +0200tromp(~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:8133:8e8f:3459:47e4) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2025-09-22 00:03:59 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2025-09-22 00:04:27 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) Lycurgus
2025-09-22 00:14:43 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-09-22 00:15:21 +0200Guest77(~Guest77@2803:9400:454a:1e81:cdc4:4029:b4ac:ee8d)
2025-09-22 00:18:08 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: alsoknownas.renjuan.org ( juan@acm.org ))
2025-09-22 00:18:10 +0200karenw_(~karenw@user/karenw) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2025-09-22 00:19:37 +0200Guest77(~Guest77@2803:9400:454a:1e81:cdc4:4029:b4ac:ee8d) (Client Quit)
2025-09-22 00:19:53 +0200Guest77(~Guest77@2803:9400:454a:1e81:cdc4:4029:b4ac:ee8d)
2025-09-22 00:20:42 +0200Guest77(~Guest77@2803:9400:454a:1e81:cdc4:4029:b4ac:ee8d) (Client Quit)
2025-09-22 00:21:42 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-09-22 00:32:45 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-09-22 00:37:25 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-09-22 00:48:15 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-09-22 00:52:40 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2025-09-22 00:53:36 +0200mreh(~matthew@host86-146-25-35.range86-146.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-09-22 00:55:57 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) siracusa
2025-09-22 01:03:39 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-09-22 01:06:50 +0200vanishingidealv12l
2025-09-22 01:08:04 +0200v12lvanishingideal
2025-09-22 01:08:19 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2025-09-22 01:10:47 +0200Googulator14(~Googulato@80-95-93-255.pool.digikabel.hu)
2025-09-22 01:11:20 +0200Googulator95(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-09-22 01:15:06 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e717192574afc1412945a5f8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-09-22 01:17:28 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> 1`qx1w0[=]
2025-09-22 01:19:01 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-09-22 01:20:59 +0200 <int-e> nice password
2025-09-22 01:21:35 +0200 <monochrom> heh
2025-09-22 01:23:09 +0200 <c_wraith> based on groupings, looks like a cat stepping on the keyboard to me
2025-09-22 01:23:38 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-09-22 01:26:52 +0200sprotte24(~sprotte24@p200300d16f1625006cf61cf14496ae4e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving)
2025-09-22 01:30:47 +0200Googulator58(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-09-22 01:31:09 +0200Googulator14(~Googulato@80-95-93-255.pool.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-09-22 01:34:24 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-09-22 01:37:26 +0200Googulator58Googulator
2025-09-22 01:39:02 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-09-22 01:43:52 +0200Unicorn_Princess(~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-09-22 01:46:25 +0200mange(~mange@user/mange) mange
2025-09-22 01:46:25 +0200jmcantrell_(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2025-09-22 01:48:11 +0200jmcantrell_(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2025-09-22 01:49:47 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-09-22 01:53:46 +0200Buliarous(~gypsydang@46.232.210.139) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-09-22 01:53:46 +0200Buliarou1(~gypsydang@46.232.210.139) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-09-22 01:54:05 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-09-22 01:54:08 +0200Buliarous(~gypsydang@46.232.210.139) Buliarous
2025-09-22 01:55:38 +0200Googulator38(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-09-22 01:55:48 +0200Googulator(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-09-22 02:01:55 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-187-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2025-09-22 02:05:11 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-09-22 02:06:12 +0200Googulator38(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-09-22 02:06:28 +0200Googulator38(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-09-22 02:06:49 +0200wbrawner(~wbrawner@static.56.224.132.142.clients.your-server.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2025-09-22 02:08:26 +0200defragger(~random@i5C742DFC.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-09-22 02:08:43 +0200wbrawner(~wbrawner@static.56.224.132.142.clients.your-server.de) wbrawner
2025-09-22 02:10:24 +0200defragger(~random@i5C742C0E.versanet.de) defragger
2025-09-22 02:11:06 +0200arandombit(~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-09-22 02:12:02 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2025-09-22 02:17:06 +0200arandombit(~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit
2025-09-22 02:20:41 +0200Googulator1(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-09-22 02:20:41 +0200Googulator38(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-09-22 02:22:44 +0200Axma12764(~Axman6@user/axman6) Axman6
2025-09-22 02:23:13 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-09-22 02:24:03 +0200Axman6(~Axman6@user/axman6) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2025-09-22 02:28:03 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-09-22 02:35:55 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-09-22 02:37:35 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) califx
2025-09-22 02:38:35 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-09-22 02:40:42 +0200Googulator1(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-09-22 02:41:03 +0200Googulator1(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-09-22 02:43:13 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2025-09-22 02:45:50 +0200Googulator83(~Googulato@80-95-93-255.pool.digikabel.hu)
2025-09-22 02:45:56 +0200Googulator1(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Client Quit)
2025-09-22 02:49:25 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:7d79:c1b5:daad:1ed0) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2025-09-22 02:49:42 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: sdkjs)
2025-09-22 02:53:50 +0200Googulator83(~Googulato@80-95-93-255.pool.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-09-22 02:53:58 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-09-22 02:54:06 +0200Googulator83(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-09-22 02:55:39 +0200Googulator83(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Client Quit)
2025-09-22 02:55:42 +0200Googulator42(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-09-22 02:58:15 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-09-22 03:07:21 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2025-09-22 03:08:45 +0200defragger(~random@i5C742C0E.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2025-09-22 03:09:21 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-09-22 03:11:48 +0200weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2025-09-22 03:12:07 +0200weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2025-09-22 03:14:00 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-09-22 03:16:29 +0200Googulator42(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-09-22 03:16:44 +0200Googulator42(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-09-22 03:19:01 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> sorry.. I can't even blame a cat.. was dusting
2025-09-22 03:24:44 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-09-22 03:25:23 +0200defragger(~random@i6DFADE56.versanet.de) defragger
2025-09-22 03:25:39 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving)
2025-09-22 03:26:11 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-09-22 03:27:40 +0200 <monochrom> cats and dust balls are both instances of the Furball type class so it's OK :)
2025-09-22 03:29:09 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2025-09-22 03:30:25 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) tzh
2025-09-22 03:32:22 +0200 <geekosaur> dust bunny?
2025-09-22 03:32:34 +0200 <monochrom> yeah that's better :)
2025-09-22 03:40:07 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-09-22 03:40:41 +0200Googulator42(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-09-22 03:40:42 +0200Googulator68(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-09-22 03:44:43 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp)
2025-09-22 03:45:11 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-09-22 03:45:51 +0200Googulator86(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-09-22 03:46:17 +0200Googulator68(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-09-22 03:46:17 +0200Googulator86(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Client Quit)
2025-09-22 03:46:25 +0200Googulator86(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-09-22 03:55:41 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-09-22 03:55:48 +0200comonad(~comonad@p200300d027244d00b442e34853d3dae3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-09-22 03:59:16 +0200trickard(~trickard@cpe-49-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-09-22 03:59:28 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-49-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-09-22 04:00:07 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2025-09-22 04:05:28 +0200craunts79(~craunts@136.158.7.194) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2025-09-22 04:11:03 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-09-22 04:15:17 +0200williu5(~williu5@user/williu5) williu5
2025-09-22 04:15:51 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2025-09-22 04:26:25 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-09-22 04:30:38 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-09-22 04:30:40 +0200Googulator80(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-09-22 04:30:46 +0200Googulator86(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-09-22 04:38:36 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-09-22 04:39:46 +0200qqe(~qqq@185.54.23.100)
2025-09-22 04:43:23 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-09-22 04:45:06 +0200williu5(~williu5@user/williu5) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-09-22 04:45:30 +0200williu5(~williu5@user/williu5) williu5
2025-09-22 04:47:24 +0200Axman6(~Axman6@user/axman6) Axman6
2025-09-22 04:49:21 +0200Axma12764(~Axman6@user/axman6) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2025-09-22 04:50:37 +0200Googulator93(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-09-22 04:50:41 +0200Googulator80(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-09-22 04:50:45 +0200Chai-T-Rex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) ChaiTRex
2025-09-22 04:53:54 +0200ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-09-22 04:54:01 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-09-22 04:55:07 +0200williu5(~williu5@user/williu5) (Quit: WeeChat 4.7.1)
2025-09-22 04:55:27 +0200williu5(~williu5@user/williu5) williu5
2025-09-22 05:00:35 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2025-09-22 05:03:54 +0200williu5(~williu5@user/williu5) (Quit: WeeChat 4.7.1)
2025-09-22 05:03:54 +0200aforemny_(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cc3:700:ed80:1557:7873:ea6d) aforemny
2025-09-22 05:04:44 +0200aforemny(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6ce4:5a00:77d6:6f62:e46:c270) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-09-22 05:06:03 +0200Googulator11(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-09-22 05:06:13 +0200Googulator93(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-09-22 05:12:04 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-09-22 05:15:39 +0200Googulator11(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-09-22 05:15:45 +0200Googulator40(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-09-22 05:16:37 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-09-22 05:16:39 +0200weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2025-09-22 05:16:59 +0200weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2025-09-22 05:18:40 +0200williu5(~williu5@user/williu5) williu5
2025-09-22 05:22:24 +0200dcpagan(~dcpagan@gateway/tor-sasl/dcpagan) dcpagan
2025-09-22 05:24:01 +0200 <dcpagan> How do I turn off alignment for GADTs with Floskell?
2025-09-22 05:27:27 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-09-22 05:29:55 +0200 <dcpagan> I would like a format similar to Johan Tibell's configuration (https://github.com/ennocramer/floskell/blob/master/styles/johan-tibell.md), but without aligning GADT records.
2025-09-22 05:32:10 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-09-22 05:40:37 +0200Googulator12(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-09-22 05:40:46 +0200Googulator40(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-09-22 05:41:35 +0200humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect
2025-09-22 05:42:49 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-09-22 05:45:44 +0200Googulator56(~Googulato@80-95-93-255.pool.digikabel.hu)
2025-09-22 05:46:10 +0200Googulator12(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-09-22 05:46:58 +0200dutchie(~dutchie@user/dutchie) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-09-22 05:47:28 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-09-22 05:48:12 +0200dutchie(~dutchie@user/dutchie) dutchie
2025-09-22 05:58:12 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-09-22 05:59:37 +0200humasect(~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
2025-09-22 06:01:28 +0200aforemny(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cc7:a300:13f0:3a0e:66b2:bfa6) aforemny
2025-09-22 06:01:30 +0200aforemny_(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cc3:700:ed80:1557:7873:ea6d) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-09-22 06:02:36 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-09-22 06:10:37 +0200Googulator39(~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0744-4151-2ee3-78cb-4ad2.pool6.digikabel.hu)
2025-09-22 06:10:45 +0200Googulator56(~Googulato@80-95-93-255.pool.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-09-22 06:13:36 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-09-22 06:16:04 +0200Axma29690(~Axman6@user/axman6) Axman6
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2025-09-22 11:51:00 +0200 <[exa]> Hey all. Is there any good way to "functionalize" a data structure used for suffix tree construction? It's a tree with "finger" and backlinks, see http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/ukkonen/SuffixT1withFigs.pdf
2025-09-22 11:51:32 +0200 <[exa]> technically I'd just do ST+vector but hoped there'd be something much cooler
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2025-09-22 12:21:49 +0200 <tomsmeding> how much performance do you want :p
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2025-09-22 12:46:41 +0200 <merijn> [exa]: I mean, ST + vector seems very reasonable?
2025-09-22 12:47:14 +0200 <merijn> You could maybe do some fancy tricks with laziness, but that's probably gonna be much less understandable
2025-09-22 12:47:55 +0200poscat(~poscat@user/poscat) poscat
2025-09-22 12:48:51 +0200 <[exa]> tomsmeding: not a whole lot, was more like thinking if I could code it differently
2025-09-22 12:49:16 +0200 <[exa]> merijn: yeah I assume it's gonna end with ST but wanted to be cool
2025-09-22 12:49:18 +0200arandombit(~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-09-22 12:49:47 +0200 <[exa]> OTOH there don't seem to be even data structures to support the backlinks sensibly, sans perhaps some of the ideas from inductive graphs...which is gonna be slow af in this case
2025-09-22 12:51:30 +0200ouilemur(~jgmerritt@user/ouilemur) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-09-22 12:52:25 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) lortabac
2025-09-22 12:52:56 +0200 <tomsmeding> [exa]: when representing a cyclic graph in haskell, you can essentially choose between an explicit graph representation (Map like fgl, or STVector etc.) or an implicit graph representation (an infinite data type with sharing to produce a cyclical structure in memory)
2025-09-22 12:53:02 +0200 <tomsmeding> the latter is _extremely_ hard to work with
2025-09-22 12:53:23 +0200 <tomsmeding> the former is cumbersome, but it has the very big selling point that it... works
2025-09-22 12:54:41 +0200fp1(~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::10c5) fp
2025-09-22 12:54:44 +0200 <[exa]> yeah and the former in my case is just a slower ST vector... :D
2025-09-22 12:55:15 +0200 <[exa]> ok nvm, I take that any improvement over the vectors is hard, thanks for confirming tho :)
2025-09-22 12:55:44 +0200 <tomsmeding> nice functional programming is all about trees
2025-09-22 12:55:49 +0200 <tomsmeding> cyclic graphs are not trees
2025-09-22 12:56:04 +0200 <tomsmeding> so there is a fundamental impedance mismatch that you have to overcome somehow
2025-09-22 12:56:22 +0200 <[exa]> yeah looks like I'll try to somehow reinvent the algorithm with trees
2025-09-22 12:56:38 +0200fp1(~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::10c5) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-09-22 12:56:41 +0200 <tomsmeding> even DAGs are not trees, but they're a bit closer
2025-09-22 12:56:42 +0200fp2(~Thunderbi@130.233.53.240) fp
2025-09-22 12:56:56 +0200 <[exa]> (that's quite stupidest on the whole suffix tree algorithm tho, it looks SO MUCH like a fingertree walk, except it's not)
2025-09-22 12:57:40 +0200 <tomsmeding> [exa]: perhaps the main tree could be a regular-old tree, but you have a separate Map from some node ID to the corresponding tree node, and backlinks are IDs where you have to go through the Map to find the tree node?
2025-09-22 12:57:57 +0200 <tomsmeding> then going down is just following a single pointer, and going up goes through a bunch of administration
2025-09-22 12:58:11 +0200 <tomsmeding> not sure if that helps at all
2025-09-22 12:58:13 +0200trickard_trickard
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2025-09-22 13:03:30 +0200mari88678(~mari-este@user/mari-estel) ()
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2025-09-22 13:06:37 +0200 <jreicher> [exa]: Take this with a grain of salt, because my experience is still too limited, but I've found implicit graphs better if you manage one "paradigm shift": forget about the graph, and try to make precise the access functions. The structure is implied by those functions if you get them right.
2025-09-22 13:07:00 +0200 <jreicher> And that's especially true for infinitary expressions.
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2025-09-22 13:31:40 +0200 <merijn> [exa]: In general arrays/vectors are very hard to beat for graph algorithms :p
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2025-09-22 13:50:57 +0200 <[exa]> jreicher: yep, very true
2025-09-22 13:51:00 +0200 <[exa]> merijn: it
2025-09-22 13:51:21 +0200 <[exa]> ...'s going to be an array in the memory anyway, right :D
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2025-09-22 18:54:01 +0200inline(~inline@ip-005-146-196-132.um05.pools.vodafone-ip.de) Inline
2025-09-22 19:00:40 +0200ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-09-22 19:02:17 +0200 <dminuoso_> So I've been wondering about something with nix. How is it, that a language with extremely poor ergonomics, a stdlib that lack all the fundamental programming tasks, a stdlib that lacks all the advanced functional programming tricks, gives you infinite recursion left and right with virtually no control over strictness, hiding the defining bodies at the end (no where-bindings), very mediocre
2025-09-22 19:02:19 +0200 <dminuoso_> performance and the poorest of diagnostics (all you get is a universal throw with no catch mechanics).... attracts more users than Haskell?
2025-09-22 19:02:25 +0200dminuoso_dminuoso
2025-09-22 19:02:25 +0200ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) ChaiTRex
2025-09-22 19:02:50 +0200 <Franciman> because of nixos, dminuoso
2025-09-22 19:03:17 +0200 <dminuoso> Franciman: But thats the thing. Guix is lightyears more usable for the same problem domain.
2025-09-22 19:03:36 +0200 <Franciman> yes
2025-09-22 19:03:40 +0200 <Franciman> and standard ml is much better than haskell
2025-09-22 19:03:49 +0200 <Franciman> yet haskell is more famous
2025-09-22 19:03:51 +0200 <Franciman> such is life
2025-09-22 19:03:56 +0200 <Franciman> cargo cult, probably
2025-09-22 19:04:09 +0200 <Franciman> dminuoso: jokes aside the problem with guix is that it's strictly abiding to the free software culture
2025-09-22 19:04:17 +0200 <Franciman> and they are completely obsessed with reproducibility
2025-09-22 19:04:28 +0200 <Franciman> this makes adoption harder
2025-09-22 19:04:33 +0200 <Franciman> because it's more difficult to package stuff
2025-09-22 19:04:50 +0200 <dminuoso> I would argue that nix packaging is about as difficult.
2025-09-22 19:05:01 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2025-09-22 19:05:07 +0200 <dminuoso> The frankenstein monster type of nix derivations and hackeries people write left and right is amazing.
2025-09-22 19:05:07 +0200 <Franciman> nix packaging is not as serious about reproducibility as guix's
2025-09-22 19:05:33 +0200 <Franciman> other than that guix feels much better to me as well
2025-09-22 19:05:44 +0200 <dminuoso> Yeah but interfacing with any packaging that is not some ancient autotools packaged thing that mkDerivation somehow can deal with..
2025-09-22 19:05:46 +0200 <Franciman> the code is a bit difficult to read for me. But the external UI is very clean
2025-09-22 19:05:49 +0200 <davean> Yah I've wanted to move to guix but ...
2025-09-22 19:06:03 +0200 <inline> Ark got shot
2025-09-22 19:06:20 +0200 <inline> couldn't boot anymore from it's vram
2025-09-22 19:06:22 +0200 <dminuoso> Franciman: I find nix code to be as hard to read as llvm generated vectorized assembly.
2025-09-22 19:06:25 +0200 <inline> hahaha
2025-09-22 19:06:26 +0200 <inline> oh man
2025-09-22 19:06:45 +0200 <Franciman> lol dminuoso
2025-09-22 19:06:59 +0200 <inline> it's the second OS which failed to boot on virtualbox now, totally randomly it seems
2025-09-22 19:07:01 +0200 <dminuoso> Seriously, you get 1700 lines of nix files dealing with fixed point magic, various extend/override tricks, hooking inside out, outside in, double wrapping twisted turning fixed point inversion logic..
2025-09-22 19:07:07 +0200 <dminuoso> All without a single line of comment.
2025-09-22 19:07:14 +0200 <dminuoso> Of a single empty line to just group code.
2025-09-22 19:07:17 +0200 <davean> well at least llvm generated vectorized assembly is easier to read than hand-optimize vectorized assembly
2025-09-22 19:07:25 +0200 <inline> last time it was bookworm of debian, no idea what's going on
2025-09-22 19:07:30 +0200jmcantrell_jmcantrell
2025-09-22 19:07:35 +0200 <inline> i now even updated virtualbox
2025-09-22 19:07:54 +0200 <dminuoso> I dont even know why nix people even botter with CR/LF.
2025-09-22 19:08:00 +0200 <dminuoso> Its not as if helps readability.
2025-09-22 19:08:05 +0200 <Franciman> davean: i would like to see a declarative language for nix-style stuff using logic programming paradigm
2025-09-22 19:08:23 +0200 <dminuoso> Franciman: Oh prolix!
2025-09-22 19:08:28 +0200 <dminuoso> Lets make that a thing.
2025-09-22 19:08:52 +0200 <Franciman> maybe we can inject the fixed point shit about making derivation into the classic fixpoint semantics of logic programs?
2025-09-22 19:08:55 +0200 <inline> seems like when encryption of devices is the case and windows suddenly looses the device (even though it was initially opened via passphrase and ran 2-3 days)
2025-09-22 19:08:58 +0200 <Franciman> prolix sounds good
2025-09-22 19:09:00 +0200 <dminuoso> Neither usable nor popular, sounds we could torture a PhD student with it.
2025-09-22 19:09:45 +0200 <Franciman> lol
2025-09-22 19:09:46 +0200 <dminuoso> Franciman: All that fixed point logic is just trying very hard to define module/packaging/interface boundaries
2025-09-22 19:09:56 +0200 <dminuoso> Software developers have been solving these problems for 5 decades.
2025-09-22 19:10:06 +0200 <dminuoso> s/define/avoid/
2025-09-22 19:10:21 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2025-09-22 19:10:21 +0200 <inline> i had 3 levels of encryption, the one via bitlocker (it looses the device from time to time) then i had an encryption level from the VBox, then another of the virtual disk with cryptsetup in the OS
2025-09-22 19:10:43 +0200 <Franciman> dminuoso: you think we would need full prolog power or just a datalog dialect?
2025-09-22 19:11:15 +0200 <inline> so 1. level flaky, 2. level flaky due to previous or on it's own, 3. level stable
2025-09-22 19:11:19 +0200 <Franciman> i'm not sure i follow the comment on fixed point logics, wdym dminuoso ?
2025-09-22 19:11:54 +0200 <inline> and once i installed haskell in there the updates won't ever end....
2025-09-22 19:11:55 +0200 <dminuoso> Franciman: So the fixed points that occur in nixpkgs allow for composability of "things"
2025-09-22 19:11:59 +0200 <dminuoso> In various degrees.
2025-09-22 19:12:16 +0200 <inline> on almost every update i saw haskell packages... looks like a fast moving thing
2025-09-22 19:12:19 +0200 <dminuoso> In case of NixOS modules config fixed point, its how modules can talk to each other to figure out whats what
2025-09-22 19:12:20 +0200 <Franciman> ahh i see
2025-09-22 19:12:28 +0200 <Franciman> i thought fixpoints was to compute the final derivation
2025-09-22 19:12:47 +0200 <dminuoso> Sometimes its about a singular derivation
2025-09-22 19:12:49 +0200 <dminuoso> Sometimes its about config
2025-09-22 19:12:51 +0200 <Franciman> i see
2025-09-22 19:12:51 +0200 <dminuoso> Sometimes its about attrsets
2025-09-22 19:13:00 +0200 <dminuoso> At the end its all done to compose things together
2025-09-22 19:13:13 +0200 <dminuoso> But its an absurd abstraction because it leaks implementation at every step of the way
2025-09-22 19:13:17 +0200 <dminuoso> The best example is this:
2025-09-22 19:13:19 +0200 <dminuoso> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/26561
2025-09-22 19:13:28 +0200 <dminuoso> 8 year old issue about haskellPackages.extend and haskellPackages.override
2025-09-22 19:13:52 +0200 <dminuoso> Long story short: One is bad, you should probably use the other, and use a bunch of magic undocumented library functions to make it really extensible.
2025-09-22 19:14:19 +0200 <dminuoso> And its not because the problem domain is complicated: its just that all that fixed point nonsense is very much adhoc.
2025-09-22 19:14:23 +0200jmcantrell(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Quit: WeeChat 4.7.1)
2025-09-22 19:16:16 +0200 <Franciman> i see
2025-09-22 19:17:12 +0200jmcantrell_(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
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2025-09-22 20:32:34 +0200 <monochrom> Does it boil down to doing open recursion so you can compose extensions before you tie the knot and close it?
2025-09-22 20:33:26 +0200 <monochrom> But I'm not surprised that evolved languages (as opposed to intelligently designed) are messes.
2025-09-22 20:35:22 +0200ft(~ft@p4fc2a25a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) ft
2025-09-22 20:45:51 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-09-22 20:48:09 +0200 <yin> what's the state of backpack these days? i've just learned about it
2025-09-22 20:48:38 +0200 <monochrom> I haven't used it for a while. But should be usable with cabal-install.
2025-09-22 20:49:25 +0200 <monochrom> It should work fine because there is recent blog post using it. (I think you saw that. :) )
2025-09-22 20:50:00 +0200 <yin> i read 'Death to Type Classes'
2025-09-22 20:50:16 +0200monochromnaïvely trust that every blog authors actually test their code before posting.
2025-09-22 20:50:21 +0200 <monochrom> Yeah that one.
2025-09-22 20:51:19 +0200 <yin> most links i find on official sources are dead or insecure
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2025-09-22 20:56:52 +0200 <davean> which links do you find that are insecure?
2025-09-22 20:58:38 +0200 <yin> ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Backpack for example
2025-09-22 20:59:09 +0200 <davean> thats a 403
2025-09-22 21:00:02 +0200caconym74787(~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye)
2025-09-22 21:00:37 +0200 <davean> https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Backpack
2025-09-22 21:00:43 +0200caconym74787(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
2025-09-22 21:02:02 +0200 <yin> certificate expired a year ago
2025-09-22 21:02:27 +0200 <yin> that's why i was getting the insecure notice
2025-09-22 21:03:25 +0200 <int-e> huh. I get a current certificate but it's only for data.gitlab.haskell.org
2025-09-22 21:03:38 +0200Enrico63(~Enrico63@2a0b:e541:10d0:0:9efc:e8ff:fe24:3213) (Quit: Client closed)
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2025-09-22 21:04:38 +0200 <int-e> (So still invalid for ghc.haskell.org)
2025-09-22 21:05:18 +0200 <geekosaur> https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/backpack
2025-09-22 21:05:31 +0200 <geekosaur> the redirects for wiki pages are still messed up
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2025-09-22 21:08:28 +0200 <int-e> The server in question appears to use the SNI thing (gitlab.haskell.org is the same IP but comes with a different TLS cert). I guess ghc.haskell.org just fell through the cracks completely?
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