2025/07/10

2025-07-10 00:00:59 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-07-10 00:03:49 +0200athan(~athan@syn-047-132-161-157.res.spectrum.com) athan
2025-07-10 00:06:19 +0200trickard_trickard
2025-07-10 00:06:58 +0200d34db33f(~d34db33f@user/d34db33f) d34db33f
2025-07-10 00:09:29 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-10 00:11:33 +0200athan(~athan@syn-047-132-161-157.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2025-07-10 00:14:15 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-07-10 00:16:11 +0200sprotte24(~sprotte24@p200300d16f1294001cef72f177208735.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving)
2025-07-10 00:21:47 +0200Rain_(Rain@user/Rain-:22721) Rain_
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2025-07-10 00:24:53 +0200tmciver(~tim@syn-198-255-177-240.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-07-10 00:25:16 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-10 00:25:42 +0200tmciver(~tim@syn-198-255-177-240.res.spectrum.com) tmciver
2025-07-10 00:30:25 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d182:6512:c2f9:c3a:b83d:6490) dtman34
2025-07-10 00:31:30 +0200jreicher(~user@user/jreicher) jreicher
2025-07-10 00:31:46 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-07-10 00:31:59 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo
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2025-07-10 00:35:23 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d182:6512:c2f9:c3a:b83d:6490) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in)
2025-07-10 00:35:29 +0200tmciver(~tim@syn-198-255-177-240.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-07-10 00:36:21 +0200tmciver(~tim@syn-198-255-177-240.res.spectrum.com) tmciver
2025-07-10 00:36:30 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@c-73-242-68-179.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) dtman34
2025-07-10 00:41:29 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@c-73-242-68-179.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in)
2025-07-10 00:42:23 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d182:6512:c2f9:c3a:b83d:6490) dtman34
2025-07-10 00:43:19 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-10 00:44:04 +0200 <jreicher> merijn: I had a look at typeclassopedia. I think I understand why you said that and I agree.
2025-07-10 00:44:22 +0200tmciver(~tim@syn-198-255-177-240.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-07-10 00:45:20 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-07-10 00:46:00 +0200tmciver(~tim@syn-198-255-177-240.res.spectrum.com) tmciver
2025-07-10 00:48:14 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-07-10 00:50:28 +0200Cattycatties
2025-07-10 00:52:46 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2025-07-10 00:53:32 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d182:6512:c2f9:c3a:b83d:6490) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in)
2025-07-10 00:54:12 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@c-73-242-68-179.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) dtman34
2025-07-10 00:54:33 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-07-10 00:55:36 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-07-10 00:56:26 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-07-10 00:58:06 +0200 <geekosaur> monochrom: “If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.”
2025-07-10 00:59:05 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-10 00:59:13 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@c-73-242-68-179.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in)
2025-07-10 00:59:33 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@c-73-242-68-179.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) dtman34
2025-07-10 01:00:16 +0200cattiescatttttttties
2025-07-10 01:04:37 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-07-10 01:05:18 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@c-73-242-68-179.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in)
2025-07-10 01:08:23 +0200cattttttttiescatties
2025-07-10 01:09:17 +0200mikess(~sam@user/mikess) mikess
2025-07-10 01:10:24 +0200tmciver(~tim@syn-198-255-177-240.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-07-10 01:14:12 +0200athan(~athan@syn-047-132-161-157.res.spectrum.com) athan
2025-07-10 01:14:15 +0200 <jreicher> Only if you don't have naive set comprehension
2025-07-10 01:14:53 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-10 01:19:45 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-07-10 01:24:10 +0200falafel(~falafel@2a0c:5a87:3104:8f01::f709) falafel
2025-07-10 01:26:32 +0200trickard__(~trickard@cpe-85-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
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2025-07-10 01:27:57 +0200trickard(~trickard@cpe-92-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-07-10 01:27:58 +0200trickard__trickard
2025-07-10 01:30:37 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-10 01:31:38 +0200L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) ()
2025-07-10 01:32:44 +0200Leary(~Leary@user/Leary/x-0910699) Leary
2025-07-10 01:32:51 +0200L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah
2025-07-10 01:35:39 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-07-10 01:38:05 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2025-07-10 01:41:06 +0200Rain_(Rain@user/Rain-:22721) (Quit: ZNC 1.10.0-rc1 - https://znc.in)
2025-07-10 01:44:29 +0200mange(~mange@user/mange) mange
2025-07-10 01:44:36 +0200athan(~athan@syn-047-132-161-157.res.spectrum.com) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2025-07-10 01:45:29 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2025-07-10 01:45:39 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-07-10 01:46:24 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-10 01:47:30 +0200 <Axman6> geekosaur: probie: sorry for running away yesterday on all the C-FFI talk, it was very helpful. I have a feeling wrapping this library will be pretty difficult, because it does appear to call into C++ (and does need access to all these structs from various parts of the OS - this is the macOS endpoint security framework, so it does things like provide the stat struct of opened files, or structs that represent filesystem mounts)
2025-07-10 01:48:33 +0200 <geekosaur> if it has C wrappers then those should deal with that for you. if it doesn't, well, C++ calling conventions are like the struct calling conventions I mentioned yesterday, only more so.
2025-07-10 01:48:53 +0200 <geekosaur> the Raku folks died on that hill too 🙂
2025-07-10 01:49:38 +0200 <Axman6> yeah - well the current thing that's stopping c2hs is the enum : uint32_t stuff (I had a quick look to see if that's something that was added to a C standard but then went home)
2025-07-10 01:49:58 +0200 <geekosaur> cppreference says it's not in a C standard
2025-07-10 01:50:13 +0200 <geekosaur> (they do generally note when C has something, sometimes in a different form)
2025-07-10 01:51:19 +0200 <geekosaur> I think SWIG has some ability to deal with both of those things, but that would add a layer of indirection because I don't think it supports generating Haskell bindings so you would need to generate something that Haskell can bind to
2025-07-10 01:51:30 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-07-10 01:51:59 +0200 <geekosaur> (not necessarily C: IIRC SSWIG can generate Python bindings, then there's https://flora.pm/packages/@hackage/inline-python)
2025-07-10 01:53:23 +0200 <geekosaur> *SWIG
2025-07-10 01:53:38 +0200 <humasect> why does haskell need building on mac(homebrew)? are there no binaries
2025-07-10 01:53:46 +0200 <humasect> taking some hours
2025-07-10 01:53:54 +0200 <Axman6> my interest in this was spurred by this announcement https://alt-romes.github.io/posts/2025-07-05-packaging-a-haskell-library-as-a-swift-binary-xcframe… which made the possibility of doing things by making a C wrapper that calls Haskell a possibility, but at some point I will probably still need to interact with the C structs
2025-07-10 01:54:03 +0200 <Axman6> humasect: use ghcup, not homebrew
2025-07-10 01:54:59 +0200 <Axman6> I would have thought homebrew also had the pre-compiled binaries the GHC team make, but nonetheless, homebrew is the wrong tool for the job, ghcup lets you manage multiple compilers, and all the tools like cabal, HLS
2025-07-10 01:55:20 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-10 01:55:29 +0200falafel(~falafel@2a0c:5a87:3104:8f01::f709) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-07-10 01:57:21 +0200 <geekosaur> homebrew is weird, I don't know why their binaries stuff doesn't have ghc on it and in any case you'd be stuck with whatever version they bottle I think.
2025-07-10 01:58:29 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2025-07-10 01:59:44 +0200 <Axman6> geekosaur: have you done anything with inline-c? Wondering if that could avoid some of these issues by offloading more to the C compiler
2025-07-10 01:59:58 +0200 <geekosaur> I know it exists but haven't used it
2025-07-10 02:00:18 +0200trickard(~trickard@cpe-85-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-10 02:00:21 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-07-10 02:00:31 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-85-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
2025-07-10 02:01:08 +0200 <jackdk> Axman6: I remember Frase doing a bunch of stuff with (?hs)c2hs when he was wrangling notmuch
2025-07-10 02:01:20 +0200 <jackdk> Dunno if he played with inline-c any
2025-07-10 02:02:24 +0200tmciver(~tim@syn-198-255-177-240.res.spectrum.com) tmciver
2025-07-10 02:02:38 +0200 <Axman6> yeah, I remember looking into that but seem to remember it not matching the sort of stuff I needed to do. Most ofwhat's causing me troubles is being able to interact with structs in Haskell defined in Apple's annoyingly nonstandard headers (I know jack, I can hear you already)
2025-07-10 02:04:05 +0200 <humasect> Axman6: ohh. okay thanks
2025-07-10 02:04:15 +0200jespada(~jespada@r190-133-11-154.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-07-10 02:04:18 +0200phma(~phma@host-67-44-208-10.hnremote.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-10 02:04:41 +0200 <jackdk> Axman6: (Not saying a word.) Does any of M. Chakravaty's stuff help you here? I remember him doing a lot of work on native macOS things.
2025-07-10 02:05:12 +0200 <Axman6> Not sure, I'd have to have another look. A lot of that was before Apple added things like block (lambda) syntax IIRC
2025-07-10 02:05:20 +0200phma(phma@2001:5b0:211b:84d8:ea0c:3bd3:b60:4179)
2025-07-10 02:05:25 +0200 <Axman6> having random ^'s in code makes tools sad
2025-07-10 02:08:50 +0200 <jackdk> My gut instinct (which is probably way out of date) is that I'd want to talk over the C ABI, and so doing something like what the zeromq people did: provide a C wrapper that passes objects around as opaque pointers, that you can then FFI into much more easily. But I don't know your actual problem.
2025-07-10 02:10:33 +0200 <Axman6> the problem with that is the sheer number of types I'd need to interact with - see Apple's _awful_ documentation here: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/endpointsecurity?language=objc
2025-07-10 02:11:04 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-10 02:11:09 +0200 <Axman6> I need Chak or someone to write inline-swift. Feels like there'd likely be less of an impedance mismatch there
2025-07-10 02:11:32 +0200 <humasect> COM objects..
2025-07-10 02:11:48 +0200 <humasect> (thats how it happens.)
2025-07-10 02:12:11 +0200 <jackdk> I was going to suggest automatic generation of gobject wrappers just to troll Axman6
2025-07-10 02:12:50 +0200carlo_h_(~carlo_h_@pa49-182-186-83.pa.qld.optusnet.com.au)
2025-07-10 02:14:10 +0200carlo_h_(~carlo_h_@pa49-182-186-83.pa.qld.optusnet.com.au) (Client Quit)
2025-07-10 02:14:17 +0200phma(phma@2001:5b0:211b:84d8:ea0c:3bd3:b60:4179) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-07-10 02:15:13 +0200mikess(~sam@user/mikess) (Quit: leaving)
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2025-07-10 02:18:26 +0200falafel(~falafel@79.117.174.28) falafel
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2025-07-10 02:29:07 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
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2025-07-10 02:40:31 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d182:6512:c2f9:c3a:b83d:6490) dtman34
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2025-07-10 02:44:53 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-10 02:45:15 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-85-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2025-07-10 02:46:03 +0200 <humasect> eh 9gb free, not enough space for ghcup 9.12.x ? trying again. nothing else to remove. dont think this is much different than homebrew situation for how long it takes also. i remember there used to be a .pkg installer
2025-07-10 02:46:15 +0200lisbeths(uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com) lisbeths
2025-07-10 02:50:34 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-07-10 02:50:44 +0200trickard_(~trickard@cpe-85-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-07-10 02:51:33 +0200mange(~mange@user/mange) mange
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2025-07-10 02:57:18 +0200Frostillicus(~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Frostillicus)
2025-07-10 02:58:43 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d182:6512:c2f9:c3a:b83d:6490) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in)
2025-07-10 02:59:22 +0200 <Axman6> GHC is pretty big. But also, 9gb free on a mac is not enough regardless of GHC D:
2025-07-10 02:59:28 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d182:6512:c2f9:c3a:b83d:6490) dtman34
2025-07-10 03:00:40 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-10 03:00:55 +0200 <humasect> hmmm yeah
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2025-07-10 03:20:52 +0200gabiruh(~gabiruh@vps19177.publiccloud.com.br) gabiruh
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2025-07-10 03:33:22 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@c-73-242-68-179.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) dtman34
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2025-07-10 03:36:32 +0200merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-07-10 03:38:24 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@c-73-242-68-179.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in)