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| 2025-06-02 00:26:25 +0200 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@178.34.162.18) |
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| 2025-06-02 00:32:39 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> Also, I got desperate and tried to go try Codecanvas.ai for MVP |
| 2025-06-02 00:32:57 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> it's not there yet; capability is quite limited right now |
| 2025-06-02 00:33:00 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-06-02 00:33:13 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> (wiki website target, or at least the support staff told me that) |
| 2025-06-02 00:33:23 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-06-02 00:37:38 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-06-02 01:56:05 +0200 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty |
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| 2025-06-02 02:42:54 +0200 | <EvanR> | any clue why this is happening or if I'm just tripping. readFile on a named pipe acts normally the first time you open the fifo, "blocking" until a writer appears and starts sending data, then the lazy list terminates when the writer closes the fifo |
| 2025-06-02 02:43:01 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-06-02 02:43:03 +0200 | Digit | (~user@user/digit) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-06-02 02:43:13 +0200 | <EvanR> | after consuming the entire list, another call to readFile on the fifo immediately returns [] |
| 2025-06-02 02:43:23 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-06-02 02:44:20 +0200 | <geekosaur> | that's standard fifo behavior, yes |
| 2025-06-02 02:44:33 +0200 | <EvanR> | so you can never reopen a fifo? |
| 2025-06-02 02:44:38 +0200 | <geekosaur> | right |
| 2025-06-02 02:45:13 +0200 | <geekosaur> | you need to hold it open `O_RDWR` and have some protocol for "end of current connection". or use an `AF_LOCAL` socket, which behaves the way you want FIFOs to work |
| 2025-06-02 02:46:10 +0200 | <geekosaur> | actually this isn't 100% POSIXX behavior, `readFile` and the somewhat weird Haskell Report-specified semantics of lazy I/O are contributing |
| 2025-06-02 02:46:41 +0200 | <geekosaur> | the two together make FIFOs kinda unusable in Haskell |
| 2025-06-02 02:46:43 +0200 | Digit | (~user@user/digit) Digit |
| 2025-06-02 02:47:05 +0200 | <geekosaur> | but that's only slightly worse than the normal POSIX behavior |
| 2025-06-02 02:47:21 +0200 | <geekosaur> | really, just don't use FIFOs |
| 2025-06-02 02:49:54 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-06-02 02:50:17 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-06-02 02:50:28 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-06-02 02:50:44 +0200 | <EvanR> | I don't understand the condition which causes a 2nd opening of the fifo to instantly return EOF |
| 2025-06-02 02:50:58 +0200 | <EvanR> | e.g. I can run the program again or a second program to open it and it blocks |
| 2025-06-02 02:51:07 +0200 | <EvanR> | for reading |
| 2025-06-02 02:51:20 +0200 | <EvanR> | is it like "one process, one opening" |
| 2025-06-02 02:51:56 +0200 | <EvanR> | come back with another process if you want more fifo |
| 2025-06-02 02:52:11 +0200 | <geekosaur> | yes |
| 2025-06-02 02:52:15 +0200 | <EvanR> | interesting |
| 2025-06-02 02:52:54 +0200 | <geekosaur> | POSIX FIFO semantics come from UNIX System III/V and are rather strange |
| 2025-06-02 02:54:02 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I only know of one program which made useful use of them: on System V R3, `cron` opened a private FIFO for read/write and listened for lines written by `crontab`, which told it to reread the specified crontab file |
| 2025-06-02 02:55:49 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-06-02 02:56:15 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-06-02 02:56:36 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-06-02 02:57:59 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-06-02 02:58:38 +0200 | <geekosaur> | btw I think what causes that instant-EOF behavior is that the RTS opens it non-blocking, then `readFile` sets up an `unsafeInterleaveIO` which fails on the first read, which is passed back to you as EOF |
| 2025-06-02 02:59:39 +0200 | <geekosaur> | lazy I/O doesn't hande exceptional conditions at all well |
| 2025-06-02 03:02:39 +0200 | <EvanR> | I tried using openFile and hGetLine |
| 2025-06-02 03:02:43 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-06-02 03:02:52 +0200 | <geekosaur> | so anyway FIFOs are broken, lazy I/O is broken, if you use them together you get to keep all the shattered pieces |
| 2025-06-02 03:03:05 +0200 | <EvanR> | same result, first it blocks waiting for a writer, second time it suceeds immediately but hGetLine throws because EOF |
| 2025-06-02 03:03:05 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-06-02 03:03:33 +0200 | <EvanR> | is it open blocking the first time and non-blocking the second time |
| 2025-06-02 03:04:25 +0200 | <geekosaur> | it should always be non-blocking, I think? the RTS doesn't use blocking fds because that would block the whole process instead of just the running thread |
| 2025-06-02 03:04:29 +0200 | <EvanR> | if this can't be adjusted I'm not sure how that crontab trick even worked |
| 2025-06-02 03:04:41 +0200 | <EvanR> | opening the first time blocks if there's no writer yet |
| 2025-06-02 03:05:02 +0200 | <geekosaur> | because only writers close it. cron kept it open O_RDWR|O_NONBLOCK continuously |
| 2025-06-02 03:05:16 +0200 | <EvanR> | oh |
| 2025-06-02 03:05:35 +0200 | <EvanR> | i'll try opening it RDWR |
| 2025-06-02 03:05:40 +0200 | <geekosaur> | so it never saw EOF, it just relied on every "record" being a single line |
| 2025-06-02 03:06:16 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-06-02 03:06:24 +0200 | <EvanR> | that made it behave |
| 2025-06-02 03:07:58 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-06-02 03:08:23 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-06-02 03:08:30 +0200 | <EvanR> | it causes reader to not see EOF from writers closing |
| 2025-06-02 03:08:43 +0200 | <EvanR> | which is good enough for government work |
| 2025-06-02 03:09:10 +0200 | <EvanR> | but also closing and reopening a second time gives blocking behavior again |
| 2025-06-02 03:09:17 +0200 | <EvanR> | weird |