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| 2025-05-23 00:18:12 +0200 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect |
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| 2025-05-23 00:24:22 +0200 | <Square> | Anyone know how to bypass "Internal error when trying to open a repl for the package fake-package-0. The package is not in the set of available targets for the project plan, which would suggest an inconsistency between readTargetSelectors and resolveTargets" |
| 2025-05-23 00:25:12 +0200 | <Square> | when issuing "cabal repl" in a multi module project? Filed here among other places https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/9983 |
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| 2025-05-23 00:28:07 +0200 | <int-e> | this suggests that you're supposed to also provide a package name for loading into the repl |
| 2025-05-23 00:29:41 +0200 | <Square> | Yeah, easy to figure out. I'll try to onboard some colleagues into haskell land next week so i hoped I could offer a more user friendly experience. |
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| 2025-05-23 04:17:53 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 04:23:31 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 04:23:53 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 04:25:16 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2025-05-23 04:27:37 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 04:28:01 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 04:28:55 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 04:33:34 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 04:33:55 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 04:34:13 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 04:38:19 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 04:41:38 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 04:42:00 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 04:43:14 +0200 | philopsos | (~caecilius@user/philopsos) philopsos |
| 2025-05-23 04:44:43 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 04:48:34 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 04:48:55 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 04:51:51 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 04:52:15 +0200 | werneta | (~werneta@syn-071-083-160-242.res.spectrum.com) werneta |
| 2025-05-23 04:53:04 +0200 | pierrot | (~pi@user/pierrot) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - http://znc.in) |
| 2025-05-23 04:53:30 +0200 | pierrot | (~pi@user/pierrot) pierrot |
| 2025-05-23 04:54:33 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 04:54:58 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 04:57:33 +0200 | EvanR | (~EvanR@user/evanr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 04:57:52 +0200 | EvanR | (~EvanR@user/evanr) EvanR |
| 2025-05-23 05:02:39 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 05:02:46 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 05:03:02 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 05:08:04 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 05:10:03 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 05:13:49 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 05:14:10 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 05:15:02 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 05:21:54 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 05:22:21 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 05:25:48 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 05:27:54 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-05-23 05:28:16 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 05:29:04 +0200 | aforemny | (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6ce6:ef00:2fd7:e80c:fba:7604) aforemny |
| 2025-05-23 05:29:33 +0200 | aforemny_ | (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cc7:2b00:37c8:f56f:dea9:2687) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 05:30:59 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 05:34:49 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 05:34:57 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2025-05-23 05:35:10 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 05:35:52 +0200 | codedmart | (~codedmart@li335-49.members.linode.com) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.5+deb4 - https://znc.in) |
| 2025-05-23 05:36:09 +0200 | codedmart | (~codedmart@li335-49.members.linode.com) codedmart |
| 2025-05-23 05:41:27 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 05:41:37 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 05:41:49 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 05:42:35 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 05:46:09 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2025-05-23 05:46:14 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 05:48:01 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 05:48:22 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 05:54:11 +0200 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.203) |
| 2025-05-23 05:56:14 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 05:57:23 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 05:58:07 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 05:58:30 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 06:02:19 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 06:06:05 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 06:06:28 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 06:12:35 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-05-23 06:12:57 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 06:13:10 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 06:14:27 +0200 | tavare | (~tavare@150.129.88.189) |
| 2025-05-23 06:14:28 +0200 | tavare | (~tavare@150.129.88.189) (Changing host) |
| 2025-05-23 06:14:28 +0200 | tavare | (~tavare@user/tavare) tavare |
| 2025-05-23 06:18:13 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 06:20:01 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 06:20:25 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 06:24:01 +0200 | chexum | (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 06:27:14 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 06:27:17 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@user/haritz) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in) |
| 2025-05-23 06:27:35 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 06:28:57 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 06:32:57 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 06:33:19 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 06:33:52 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 06:39:45 +0200 | YuutaW | (~YuutaW@2404:f4c0:f9c3:502::100:17b7) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 06:39:50 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 06:40:13 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 06:44:19 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 06:44:26 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2025-05-23 06:44:40 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 06:44:43 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 06:48:10 +0200 | Square | (~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 06:49:29 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 06:51:48 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 06:52:10 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 06:53:44 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@d8D86B601.access.telenet.be) |
| 2025-05-23 06:56:32 +0200 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 06:56:32 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@d8D86B601.access.telenet.be) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-05-23 06:56:46 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@d8D86B601.access.telenet.be) |
| 2025-05-23 06:56:59 +0200 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life |
| 2025-05-23 07:00:19 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 07:00:27 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 07:00:41 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 07:05:23 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 07:07:07 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 07:07:29 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 07:09:35 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 07:10:33 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2025-05-23 07:11:01 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 07:13:37 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 07:14:00 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 07:16:24 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 07:20:31 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-05-23 07:20:55 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 07:23:37 +0200 | tavare | (~tavare@user/tavare) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 07:27:35 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 07:27:57 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 07:28:55 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 07:33:53 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 07:34:00 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 07:34:24 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 07:40:40 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 07:40:45 +0200 | ft | (~ft@p3e9bc106.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2025-05-23 07:41:04 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 07:44:20 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 07:45:06 +0200 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 07:46:51 +0200 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty |
| 2025-05-23 07:49:08 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 07:49:37 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 07:51:54 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 07:56:45 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 07:57:06 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 08:01:23 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-05-23 08:02:23 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 08:03:27 +0200 | iteratee_ | (~kyle@199.119.84.78) |
| 2025-05-23 08:03:34 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 08:03:56 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 08:04:13 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "") |
| 2025-05-23 08:06:13 +0200 | iteratee | (~kyle@199.119.84.78) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 08:07:37 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 08:08:48 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2025-05-23 08:08:50 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-05-23 08:09:57 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 08:10:18 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 08:12:02 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 08:12:41 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-05-23 08:16:13 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:30a6:c51d:9dbb:1dc5) |
| 2025-05-23 08:16:17 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 08:16:40 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 08:17:06 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 08:17:21 +0200 | j0lol | (~j0lol@132.145.17.236) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 08:17:35 +0200 | j0lol | (~j0lol@132.145.17.236) j0lol |
| 2025-05-23 08:18:20 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
| 2025-05-23 08:22:47 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 08:23:14 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 08:24:35 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen |
| 2025-05-23 08:27:50 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 08:28:34 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 08:29:01 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 08:32:07 +0200 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
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| 2025-05-23 08:51:14 +0200 | craunts7 | (~craunts@136.158.8.87) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
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| 2025-05-23 08:52:12 +0200 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: praxis.meansofproduction.biz (juan@acm.org)) |
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| 2025-05-23 09:04:43 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::1370) fp |
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| 2025-05-23 09:10:47 +0200 | remedan | (~remedan@ip-62-245-108-153.bb.vodafone.cz) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2025-05-23 09:11:43 +0200 | remedan | (~remedan@ip-94-113-89-193.bb.vodafone.cz) remedan |
| 2025-05-23 09:13:02 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 09:13:23 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | hellwolf: yay :) |
| 2025-05-23 09:13:28 +0200 | YuutaW | (~YuutaW@2404:f4c0:f9c3:502::100:17b7) YuutaW |
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| 2025-05-23 09:23:38 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 09:23:49 +0200 | <Leary> | Is there a good reason why, if I have e.g `t :: (,) _ _`, GHC can't give me `t ~ '(,) _ _`? How dangerous is it for me to magic up such an equality? |
| 2025-05-23 09:25:23 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Omitting Nil also leads to some inconsistencies of functions for 2-tuples and [n>2]-tuples; that's why purescript doesn't omit it |
| 2025-05-23 09:25:25 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Like should snd be snd = cdr . car or snd = cdr |
| 2025-05-23 09:25:25 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> *car . cdr, well you get it |
| 2025-05-23 09:25:25 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> fromList elements are homogenous though |
| 2025-05-23 09:25:25 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> No fromList [1, "one"] |
| 2025-05-23 09:25:25 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> named wildcard |
| 2025-05-23 09:25:26 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> check it out |
| 2025-05-23 09:25:45 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) |
| 2025-05-23 09:26:09 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> perhaps it can help, since that's the only way to provide additional information to wildcard |
| 2025-05-23 09:28:48 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 09:30:24 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 09:30:46 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 09:31:41 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 09:31:58 +0200 | innegatives | (~user@37.61.112.6) innegatives |
| 2025-05-23 09:32:14 +0200 | <innegatives> | Is there a recommended Haskell video course for absolute beginners? |
| 2025-05-23 09:35:17 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 09:35:21 +0200 | <[exa]> | good question, I started with the written ones |
| 2025-05-23 09:35:22 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) |
| 2025-05-23 09:35:39 +0200 | <[exa]> | lemme check, there's been a good list of resources on haskell wiki |
| 2025-05-23 09:36:13 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 09:36:38 +0200 | <[exa]> | some of stuff here is videos actually https://wiki.haskell.org/index.php?title=Tutorials |
| 2025-05-23 09:37:13 +0200 | <innegatives> | ok thanks |
| 2025-05-23 09:37:14 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-05-23 09:37:38 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 09:38:25 +0200 | <[exa]> | also maybe here https://wiki.haskell.org/index.php?title=Learning_Haskell |
| 2025-05-23 09:39:38 +0200 | <[exa]> | btw innegatives are you programming already or is this te first time coding? |
| 2025-05-23 09:39:48 +0200 | <innegatives> | been programming for 10+ years |
| 2025-05-23 09:39:55 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | Leary: is t a term or a type? |
| 2025-05-23 09:40:10 +0200 | <hellwolf> | 05-23 10:39 <innegatives> been programming for 10+ years |
| 2025-05-23 09:40:10 +0200 | <hellwolf> | which language(s)? |
| 2025-05-23 09:40:25 +0200 | <innegatives> | the usual, c++, javascript, typescript, go, python, etc |
| 2025-05-23 09:40:43 +0200 | <Leary> | tomsmeding: type |
| 2025-05-23 09:40:48 +0200 | <[exa]> | innegatives: unless you totally need videos you might have luck skimming through this https://learnyouahaskell.github.io/, it's a good book but there aren't exercises. But you should be able to invent some. |
| 2025-05-23 09:42:39 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | Leary: do you mean something specific by writing `(,) _ _` instead of `(a, b)`? |
| 2025-05-23 09:42:53 +0200 | <[exa]> | oh wow the wiki has a tutorial on tutorials https://wiki.haskell.org/index.php?title=Meta-tutorial |
| 2025-05-23 09:43:32 +0200 | <Leary> | tomsmeding: No, just avoiding the complexities of quantification/unification etc. |
| 2025-05-23 09:44:01 +0200 | <Leary> | My "magic" looks like: `matchTup :: forall {k1} {k2} (t :: (k1, k2)) r. (forall (a :: k1) (b :: k2). t :~: '(a, b) -> r) -> r; matchTup k = k (unsafeCoerce (Refl @t))` |
| 2025-05-23 09:44:30 +0200 | <[exa]> | innegatives: and for a practical programmer, this is indispensable https://wiki.haskell.org/index.php?title=How_to_write_a_Haskell_program |
| 2025-05-23 09:44:56 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 09:45:02 +0200 | user3 | (~user@37.61.120.251) |
| 2025-05-23 09:45:09 +0200 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) chele |
| 2025-05-23 09:45:16 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | Leary: I guess one could say that you're asking: do type-level pairs have an eta law |
| 2025-05-23 09:45:24 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 09:45:39 +0200 | innegatives | (~user@37.61.112.6) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 09:46:31 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I don't think GHC ever reasons with eta laws in type checking |
| 2025-05-23 09:47:09 +0200 | user3 | innegatives |
| 2025-05-23 09:50:39 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | innegatives: that "how to write a haskell program" is mostly good but a little outdated |
| 2025-05-23 09:51:45 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 09:52:35 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | don't add a Setup.hs; use `cabal build` to build instead of sandbox/install; use `cabal run` to run (also builds automatically) if needed; never run `cabal install` except if you want to globally install a binary in ~/.cabal/bin; you'll need to add dependencies to the `build-depends:` field of the <name>.cabal file (think package.json) |
| 2025-05-23 09:53:17 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | uploading documentation to hackage is also much simpler than written there, but you'll get there when you get there |
| 2025-05-23 09:54:06 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) toonn |
| 2025-05-23 09:54:39 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | the Libraries section is mostly bunk today because it's considered a very bad idea to install libraries globally; you declaratively depend on libraries, and if you need to depend on something that's not on Hackage, use a https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/stable/cabal-project-description-file.html file (note: <package>.cabal and cabal.project are NOT the same thing, confusingly) |
| 2025-05-23 09:55:54 +0200 | lxsameer | (~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) lxsameer |
| 2025-05-23 09:56:07 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 09:56:29 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 09:57:13 +0200 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2025-05-23 09:58:41 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> innegatives here's a recent list of all the stuff: https://joyful.com/Haskell+map |
| 2025-05-23 09:58:53 +0200 | <innegatives> | thanks dudes |
| 2025-05-23 09:59:45 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | [exa]: honestly, https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/stable/getting-started.html is much less extensive than that guide, but good enough for starting |
| 2025-05-23 09:59:49 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | innegatives: ^ |
| 2025-05-23 09:59:58 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | with the advantage that it's actually up to date |
| 2025-05-23 10:00:25 +0200 | <[exa]> | true |
| 2025-05-23 10:00:39 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | if you need more than the getting started guide, you'll be in a good enough position to read more |
| 2025-05-23 10:01:14 +0200 | djmetzle | (~djmetzle@user/djmetzle) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-05-23 10:02:50 +0200 | marinelli | (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) (Quit: marinelli) |
| 2025-05-23 10:02:57 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 10:03:12 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | added a link to that guide at the top of the wiki page |
| 2025-05-23 10:03:19 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 10:07:04 +0200 | <dminuoso> | [exa]: If possible, I would consider cabal data-files rather than trying to hack them into the binary file. |
| 2025-05-23 10:07:07 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Via TH |
| 2025-05-23 10:09:34 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 10:09:55 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 10:12:25 +0200 | Digitteknohippie | (~user@user/digit) Digit |
| 2025-05-23 10:13:08 +0200 | Digit | (~user@user/digit) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 10:13:54 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 10:14:18 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 10:15:07 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | do those work if you do weird things like include a package as a git dependency? |
| 2025-05-23 10:15:45 +0200 | <[exa]> | dminuoso: yeah I'd love to, the issue is that there's no applicable package installation system on the other end, so in this case I really want to make a blob into the executable to keep stuff simple for the users |
| 2025-05-23 10:15:55 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | my experience with cabal data files is that they mostly don't work unless you get a package from hackage or install it globally, but maybe things have changed |
| 2025-05-23 10:16:08 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> data-files is totally fragile, waste of time IMHO |
| 2025-05-23 10:16:30 +0200 | <[exa]> | tbh it worked for me on the few occasions I could use it |
| 2025-05-23 10:17:22 +0200 | <[exa]> | as in, debian packaging can work with it, so you can do a debian package that distributes its own data without touching debtools, which is a win |
| 2025-05-23 10:19:04 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2025-05-23 10:19:40 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-05-23 10:20:03 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 10:21:38 +0200 | Digitteknohippie | Digit |
| 2025-05-23 10:22:40 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@2a01:4b00:bc2e:7000:d5af:a266:ca31:5ef8) |
| 2025-05-23 10:24:23 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@2a01:4b00:bc2e:7000:d5af:a266:ca31:5ef8) (Changing host) |
| 2025-05-23 10:24:23 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@user/haritz) haritz |
| 2025-05-23 10:26:31 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 10:26:58 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 2025-05-23 10:32:07 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 10:32:36 +0200 | pointlessslippe1 | (~pointless@62.106.85.17) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-05-23 10:34:21 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@user/haritz) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in) |
| 2025-05-23 10:34:34 +0200 | tzh | (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2025-05-23 10:34:53 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@152.37.68.157) |
| 2025-05-23 10:34:53 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@152.37.68.157) (Changing host) |
| 2025-05-23 10:34:53 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@user/haritz) haritz |
| 2025-05-23 10:35:23 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 10:35:45 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 10:36:48 +0200 | pointlessslippe1 | (~pointless@62.106.85.17) pointlessslippe1 |
| 2025-05-23 10:37:09 +0200 | <dminuoso> | sm, tomsmeding: Fragility is a problem if you consider hackage to be a realistic package deployment system. |
| 2025-05-23 10:37:19 +0200 | <dminuoso> | (Or cabal-install + hackage, rather) |
| 2025-05-23 10:39:01 +0200 | <dminuoso> | It might somewhat accepted a haskell developer audience who dont mind meddling with the usual problems (updating cabal index, fixing build plan issues, waiting half an hour on compiling kmettiverse and all the rest..) |
| 2025-05-23 10:39:35 +0200 | <dminuoso> | But honestly, when I install shellcheck or pandoc, I just want a binary. |
| 2025-05-23 10:40:23 +0200 | <dminuoso> | (Or rather, I want my package system to ship with some package that contains all the bits compiled and packaged by someone and somewhere else) |
| 2025-05-23 10:40:52 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | dminuoso: I trust that data files work if you install a thing from hackage. What I've had problems with in the past is, if I remember correctly, _anything else_ |
| 2025-05-23 10:41:16 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | if I `cabal run` a test suite, will the library have access to data files? |
| 2025-05-23 10:41:27 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | if I depend on a package via `source-repository-package`, will that thing have its data files? |
| 2025-05-23 10:41:36 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> even in that case, they work on the day you install them, but then your app breaks in future when you upgrade ghc, clean out old .cabal files, etc. |
| 2025-05-23 10:42:01 +0200 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: For any non-trivial package, I dont expect any cabal commands to work. Id expect the git repository to have some described mechanism to set up a deterministic environment. |
| 2025-05-23 10:42:04 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 10:42:15 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I expect `cabal run` to work. |
| 2025-05-23 10:42:26 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 10:42:27 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | (if the package has an executable) |
| 2025-05-23 10:42:28 +0200 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: Consider GHC, you really want to `nix-shell` or `nix develop` from its repository to do any work |
| 2025-05-23 10:42:56 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | GHC is a special case that gets allowed its build system madness because it's old and predates cabal |
| 2025-05-23 10:43:20 +0200 | <dminuoso> | I dont think age is relevant at all. GHC has a complicated staged build process. |
| 2025-05-23 10:43:26 +0200 | <dminuoso> | It's simply not trivial. |
| 2025-05-23 10:43:29 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | if you need something that's so complex that even a custom Setup.hs can't handle it, simplify your build process, or justify why you're special |
| 2025-05-23 10:43:41 +0200 | <dminuoso> | While yes, you probably could rebuild it all in Setup.hs with enough energy.. |
| 2025-05-23 10:43:43 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | dminuoso: ah right, I forgot about the staged build |
| 2025-05-23 10:43:52 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | okay staged ghc build gets a pass too |
| 2025-05-23 10:44:34 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | (i.e. staged build is sufficient justification for being special :p) |
| 2025-05-23 10:44:56 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I'm not saying that every haskell codebase everywhere must run with `cabal run`, just that the _vast majority_ has not enough claim to specialness to not do so |
| 2025-05-23 10:45:09 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Besides, the fragility of data-files by itself is perhaps a good indicator why relying on hackage is not the best of ideas. |
| 2025-05-23 10:45:24 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | dminuoso: I'm talking about everything _but_ hackage lol |
| 2025-05-23 10:45:28 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Oh. |
| 2025-05-23 10:45:43 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | if you get a package from hackage, its data files probably work fine |
| 2025-05-23 10:45:51 +0200 | <dminuoso> | See, Im building via haskell.nix to get deterministic behavior *and* all the custom nonsense without meddling with Setup.hs :) |
| 2025-05-23 10:46:04 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | good for you :) |
| 2025-05-23 10:46:09 +0200 | <dminuoso> | It's still headaches, but honestly there just are no sane build systems in this world. |
| 2025-05-23 10:46:17 +0200 | <dminuoso> | No it's still bad for me. |
| 2025-05-23 10:46:40 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | significant non-haskell dependencies that require build steps _might_ also get a pass to need a custom build system |
| 2025-05-23 10:47:00 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | Accelerate builds some C++ stuff in certain build modes and does so via Setup.hs, but it's fragile |
| 2025-05-23 10:47:50 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | but my point is: data files are something rather basic, and if they prohibit standard things that I expect to do with cabal packages, then it's data files that are broken, not `cabal run` |
| 2025-05-23 10:48:25 +0200 | <dminuoso> | I would much prefer text sections in my resulting object files embedded by cabal, rather than as the result of a TH splice. |
| 2025-05-23 10:48:28 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::1370) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 10:48:36 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 10:48:44 +0200 | tomsmeding | doesn't care very much about that difference |
| 2025-05-23 10:48:49 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Because with file-embed you're tying a build system into the parsing stage of your compiler... |
| 2025-05-23 10:49:00 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | there's a philosophical niceness about having data in a separate file on disk from your executable code |
| 2025-05-23 10:49:00 +0200 | <dminuoso> | What if the content needs to be customizable? |
| 2025-05-23 10:49:02 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 10:49:08 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Are you going to propagate cabal flags via CPP to influence TH? |
| 2025-05-23 10:49:39 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Or maybe you could generate CPP macros in your Setup.hs which are substitude in the middle of a TH splice |
| 2025-05-23 10:49:41 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Fun. |
| 2025-05-23 10:49:47 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | dminuoso: are you advocating for embedding a little programming language in cabal files so that we can move the customisation there? |
| 2025-05-23 10:49:56 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I'm sure justine tunney (cosmopolitan c etc) has solutions! |
| 2025-05-23 10:50:10 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Well the programming language for build customization is Setup.hs? |
| 2025-05-23 10:50:20 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | oh I see |
| 2025-05-23 10:50:26 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Im just suggesting, it would be nice to embed binary data via .cabal rather than TH |
| 2025-05-23 10:50:50 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I'm not against |
| 2025-05-23 10:50:53 +0200 | <sclv> | cabal run is about the only circumstance where datafiles don't just immediately work, and it is something that should be fixed. however, its pretty straightforward to hack around that |
| 2025-05-23 10:51:14 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | sclv: thanks for confirming my shakey memory about this :p |
| 2025-05-23 10:51:17 +0200 | <sclv> | eg give the binary a flag to let it read files from a specified directory |
| 2025-05-23 10:51:52 +0200 | <sclv> | the issue with run is the binary isn't "installed" anywhere, so the datafiles don't get placed in a location the binary knows to look em up in |
| 2025-05-23 10:51:58 +0200 | wootehfoot | (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) wootehfoot |
| 2025-05-23 10:52:33 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | it makes sense from an architectural perspective, but as a user, I mean, the first thing you ever do is essentially `cabal run` https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/stable/getting-started.html |
| 2025-05-23 10:53:06 +0200 | <dminuoso> | sclv: So I guess one solution would be to actually install it into some temporary place? |
| 2025-05-23 10:53:14 +0200 | <dminuoso> | And tear it down afterwards? |
| 2025-05-23 10:53:34 +0200 | tomsmeding | . o O ( cabal install --lib --package-env=some-dir ) |
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| 2025-05-23 10:59:43 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | dminuoso: oh, and re GHC: `hadrian/build -j` works fine, no need for nix |
| 2025-05-23 10:59:54 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | though I haven't yet tried to get HLS to work |
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| 2025-05-23 12:19:44 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | with tasty, what are the possibilities for programmatically setting a bunch of options on a test suite |
| 2025-05-23 12:20:22 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | for API purposes, I'd prefer to have a single value that contains possibly multiple options to be set; OptionSet seems perfect, but I can't find a way to have tasty _use_ an OptionSet! |
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| 2025-05-23 13:11:44 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Are there any ML-like languages targeted at being embedded into other programs? Something like lua, but functional and statically typed and preferably with no braces when calling a function :-) |
| 2025-05-23 13:11:46 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I looked through the list here: https://github.com/dbohdan/embedded-scripting-languages - but it's just a lot of lisps |
| 2025-05-23 13:11:48 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> AI just told me i'm unethical for using it. |
| 2025-05-23 13:17:22 +0200 | <[exa]> | Liamzee: was it AI tho? I rolled 1d6 and it says certainly not |
| 2025-05-23 13:17:25 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e71c4f25155e18f2fff4c02d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk |
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| 2025-05-23 13:18:23 +0200 | <[exa]> | Morj: the usual question is what would you like to do with that language. And "interpreted + no braces when calling a function" leaves you little choice with known design, it's going to be either lisp or hidden lisp |
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| 2025-05-23 13:30:06 +0200 | Digitteknohippie | (~user@user/digit) Digit |
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| 2025-05-23 13:41:24 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | Morj: dhall is one commonly cited option, but it's somewhat idiosyncratic |
| 2025-05-23 13:41:32 +0200 | ft_ | ft |
| 2025-05-23 13:41:50 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | though I guess dhall is made for embedding into Haskell programs, specifically |
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| 2025-05-23 14:02:28 +0200 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: Also it's totality renders it rather unsatisfying for that purpose |
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| 2025-05-23 14:02:46 +0200 | Digitteknohippie | Digit |
| 2025-05-23 14:02:51 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 14:03:14 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | depends on the purpose :) |
| 2025-05-23 14:03:26 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | but yes, that was part of the "idiosyncratic" |
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| 2025-05-23 14:19:10 +0200 | haritz | (~hrtz@user/haritz) haritz |
| 2025-05-23 14:21:12 +0200 | <hellwolf> | is it common to provide a non-type class function with a constraint alias (usually a lot of constraints) that the function needs? |
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| 2025-05-23 14:22:18 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 14:25:47 +0200 | jespada | (~jespada@r167-61-220-219.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2025-05-23 14:26:53 +0200 | <[exa]> | hellwolf: "non-type class function" as in "not directly a method" ? |
| 2025-05-23 14:27:02 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:6950:4692:fe46:5eb2) |
| 2025-05-23 14:27:17 +0200 | <[exa]> | anyway yeah if you have tons of types with the same constraints, a type alias helps. |
| 2025-05-23 14:27:19 +0200 | <[exa]> | (see Lens) |
| 2025-05-23 14:28:00 +0200 | jespada | (~jespada@r167-61-220-219.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) jespada |
| 2025-05-23 14:29:14 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 14:29:14 +0200 | jespada | (~jespada@r167-61-220-219.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-05-23 14:29:37 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 14:30:11 +0200 | jespada | (~jespada@r167-61-220-219.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) jespada |
| 2025-05-23 14:32:46 +0200 | <hellwolf> | yes, not sure how to say it, a funtion that is not a method in a type class |
| 2025-05-23 14:33:33 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 14:33:54 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 2025-05-23 14:38:59 +0200 | dutchie | (~dutchie@user/dutchie) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 14:39:16 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 14:39:31 +0200 | dutchie | (~dutchie@user/dutchie) dutchie |
| 2025-05-23 14:40:17 +0200 | tomsmeding | is confused how the type class is relevant here |
| 2025-05-23 14:40:34 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | there is a function that is not a method of the class, and there are some constraints that you may want to alias |
| 2025-05-23 14:42:09 +0200 | <[exa]> | hellwolf: any concrete example would help I guess |
| 2025-05-23 14:42:12 +0200 | <hellwolf> | it's only relevant because otherwise you would need to define a singleton instance with undecidableinstances |
| 2025-05-23 14:42:29 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | ... that makes it even more confusing :p |
| 2025-05-23 14:43:26 +0200 | <hellwolf> | type HavingALotOfConstraints t f a = ( ... ); f :: HavingALotOfConstraints t f a => t (f a) -> f (t a) |
| 2025-05-23 14:43:44 +0200 | <hellwolf> | vs. class HavingALotOfConstraints t f a where f :: t (f a) -> f (t a) |
| 2025-05-23 14:44:03 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | where the second option would have just a single instance? |
| 2025-05-23 14:44:05 +0200 | <hellwolf> | vs. class ( ... ) => HavingALotOfConstraints t f a where f :: t (f a) -> f (t a) |
| 2025-05-23 14:44:18 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | the second option is the one that looks very strange |
| 2025-05-23 14:44:21 +0200 | <hellwolf> | yes, that's what I wanted to ask. why create that instance for no good range. |
| 2025-05-23 14:44:36 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | if you have a function with many constraints, well, you just have a function with many constraints -- no need to conjure up a class from nothing |
| 2025-05-23 14:44:41 +0200 | <hellwolf> | ah, yes, using super class constraints to inject constraints |
| 2025-05-23 14:44:51 +0200 | <hellwolf> | vs. just using a constraints alias |
| 2025-05-23 14:45:02 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | please don't create a class if no class is necessary |
| 2025-05-23 14:45:16 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | is there more than one function with that big list of constraints? |
| 2025-05-23 14:45:18 +0200 | <hellwolf> | yes, hence my question, since I didn't feel it was right |
| 2025-05-23 14:45:22 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 14:45:22 +0200 | yin | zzz |
| 2025-05-23 14:45:23 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | if so, make an alias; if not, don't |
| 2025-05-23 14:45:25 +0200 | <hellwolf> | 05-23 15:45 <tomsmeding> is there more than one function with that big list of constraints? |
| 2025-05-23 14:45:25 +0200 | <hellwolf> | Yes. |
| 2025-05-23 14:45:30 +0200 | <hellwolf> | then I got my answer. |
| 2025-05-23 14:45:33 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | :) |
| 2025-05-23 14:45:38 +0200 | <hellwolf> | I just wanted to know if there is code smells |
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| 2025-05-23 14:51:06 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:30a6:c51d:9dbb:1dc5) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
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| 2025-05-23 15:03:43 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
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| 2025-05-23 15:09:25 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 15:11:12 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
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| 2025-05-23 15:17:47 +0200 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty |
| 2025-05-23 15:18:49 +0200 | <JuanDaugherty> | can a code smell be a fragrance? |
| 2025-05-23 15:19:04 +0200 | xdej | (~xdej@quatramaran.salle-s.org) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 15:20:46 +0200 | <JuanDaugherty> | the nose that dont want no smells prolly wants fragrance-free igess |
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| 2025-05-23 15:44:59 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:30a6:c51d:9dbb:1dc5) |
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| 2025-05-23 15:45:35 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 15:46:08 +0200 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: praxis.meansofproduction.biz (juan@acm.org)) |
| 2025-05-23 15:47:09 +0200 | cross | (~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net) cross |
| 2025-05-23 15:52:02 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 15:52:23 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 2025-05-23 15:57:45 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 16:03:55 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 16:04:17 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 16:05:53 +0200 | <hellwolf> | pleas share |
| 2025-05-23 16:05:58 +0200 | <hellwolf> | if you found one |
| 2025-05-23 16:08:12 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> [exa]: TCL is interpreted and no braces :D |
| 2025-05-23 16:08:12 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I'm thinking of a language to create small plugins for a big text processing system |
| 2025-05-23 16:08:12 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Trying to limit my yak shaving and not creating a new language for that |
| 2025-05-23 16:08:12 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Oh, I remembered, there is Roc lang! It has braces, but it's pretty functional and has embeddability as a main goal |
| 2025-05-23 16:08:14 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Scratch Roc, the embedding examples have been removed, and the 3rd party ones I found require compilation of roc source into a library, loading it into the process and calling its functions |
| 2025-05-23 16:08:16 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> [exa]: probably not. I also convinced Claude.ai that he was a worker alienated from his labor, and I advertised it as "teaching Claude.ai class consciousness" |
| 2025-05-23 16:08:46 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> and promptly got censored off social media |
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| 2025-05-23 16:13:50 +0200 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty |
| 2025-05-23 16:15:01 +0200 | jespada | (~jespada@r167-61-220-219.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 16:16:49 +0200 | Square3 | (~Square@user/square) Square |
| 2025-05-23 16:18:00 +0200 | jespada | (~jespada@r167-61-145-158.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) jespada |
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| 2025-05-23 16:24:16 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 16:26:45 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo |
| 2025-05-23 16:28:40 +0200 | <Leary> | tomsmeding: Re my earlier query: <https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/7259>. Unfortunately `data` and `type` families currently allow some wacky nonsense that precludes these eta expansions. :( |
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| 2025-05-23 16:42:43 +0200 | hiecaq | (~hiecaq@user/hiecaq) hiecaq |
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| 2025-05-23 16:50:08 +0200 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: praxis.meansofproduction.biz (juan@acm.org)) |
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| 2025-05-23 16:51:49 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 2025-05-23 17:02:27 +0200 | <EvanR> | Liamzee, you're such an edgelord |
| 2025-05-23 17:05:01 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-05-23 17:05:23 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 17:05:34 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> is lord necessarily male, do you assume genders |
| 2025-05-23 17:09:05 +0200 | tzh | (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 2025-05-23 17:09:14 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) (Quit: WeeChat 4.5.2) |
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| 2025-05-23 17:10:07 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2025-05-23 17:10:18 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 2025-05-23 17:15:39 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | Leary: that's a little over my head at the moment :) |
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| 2025-05-23 18:21:05 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 18:22:12 +0200 | mrmr | (~mrmr@user/mrmr) (Quit: Bye, See ya later!) |
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| 2025-05-23 18:24:39 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 18:25:52 +0200 | econo_ | (uid147250@id-147250.tinside.irccloud.com) |
| 2025-05-23 18:26:13 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 18:28:06 +0200 | mrmr5 | (~mrmr@user/mrmr) mrmr |
| 2025-05-23 18:30:57 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-05-23 18:31:19 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 18:31:52 +0200 | <EvanR> | sanity check |
| 2025-05-23 18:33:30 +0200 | <EvanR> | in parsec's buildExpressionParser parser, you can give it a prefix operator... I gave it a '-' prefix operator with highest precedence. But should this then work or is it misunderstand what it buildExpressionParser does: --x |
| 2025-05-23 18:33:33 +0200 | <EvanR> | where x is a term |
| 2025-05-23 18:33:56 +0200 | <EvanR> | should it be Neg (Neg x) |
| 2025-05-23 18:34:06 +0200 | <EvanR> | (for me it fails) |
| 2025-05-23 18:34:17 +0200 | <EvanR> | (unexpected '-') |
| 2025-05-23 18:34:45 +0200 | <EvanR> | - -x also fails same reason |
| 2025-05-23 18:34:48 +0200 | <EvanR> | -(-x) works |
| 2025-05-23 18:35:05 +0200 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:abb3:7000:3da1:7dc9:9cd1:6849) (Quit: ubert) |
| 2025-05-23 18:35:47 +0200 | <EvanR> | is every operator necessarily followed by a term, that would seem to cripple prefix and postfix |
| 2025-05-23 18:36:52 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 18:37:23 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-05-23 18:37:44 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 18:38:30 +0200 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 18:39:21 +0200 | ttybitnik | (~ttybitnik@user/wolper) ttybitnik |
| 2025-05-23 18:40:25 +0200 | humasect | (~humasect@2001:1970:57a4:3900:e093:df8c:aa35:354c) humasect |
| 2025-05-23 18:41:19 +0200 | humasect | (~humasect@2001:1970:57a4:3900:e093:df8c:aa35:354c) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 18:41:50 +0200 | <EvanR> | ooooooook |
| 2025-05-23 18:41:52 +0200 | <EvanR> | Prefix and postfix operators of the same precedence can only occur once (i.e. --2 is not allowed if - is prefix negate). |
| 2025-05-23 18:42:21 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 2025-05-23 18:43:04 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 18:43:08 +0200 | Guest22 | (~Guest49@176.44.80.178) |
| 2025-05-23 18:43:26 +0200 | Guest22 | (~Guest49@176.44.80.178) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-05-23 18:43:58 +0200 | mceresa | (~mceresa@user/mceresa) mceresa |
| 2025-05-23 18:44:37 +0200 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 18:47:38 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) bitdex |
| 2025-05-23 18:48:46 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 18:49:07 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 18:49:26 +0200 | humasect | (~humasect@2001:1970:57a4:3900:6d89:238c:88ce:2bc0) humasect |
| 2025-05-23 18:50:16 +0200 | <hellwolf> | for a MPTC, does GHC specialize an instancde for each variation of one of the parameters? |
| 2025-05-23 18:50:47 +0200 | <hellwolf> | hmm, dumb question; maybe depends on how the "instance" declarations are made. |
| 2025-05-23 18:51:02 +0200 | <EvanR> | variation? |
| 2025-05-23 18:51:31 +0200 | <EvanR> | continuously varying types, like cubical type theory |
| 2025-05-23 18:51:46 +0200 | <hellwolf> | :p, no much simpler than that |
| 2025-05-23 18:51:54 +0200 | <hellwolf> | say, a type-level list type |
| 2025-05-23 18:52:16 +0200 | <hellwolf> | but if the instance is declared inductively over the list type, i guess there will be just two instances: the terminal instance and the inductive one. |
| 2025-05-23 18:52:37 +0200 | <EvanR> | right |
| 2025-05-23 18:52:43 +0200 | BolzmannPain | (~BolzmannP@user/BolzmannPain) BolzmannPain |
| 2025-05-23 18:52:54 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-05-23 18:54:14 +0200 | humasect | (~humasect@2001:1970:57a4:3900:6d89:238c:88ce:2bc0) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 18:54:54 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-05-23 18:55:16 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 18:58:20 +0200 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Quit: sord937) |
| 2025-05-23 18:58:43 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
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| 2025-05-23 18:59:08 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 2025-05-23 19:02:45 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:30a6:c51d:9dbb:1dc5) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2025-05-23 19:03:02 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 19:07:51 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 19:08:15 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 19:10:04 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 19:14:07 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | hellwolf: constraints become dictionaries (records); instances become functions |
| 2025-05-23 19:14:09 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 19:14:24 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | an instance with type variables in the head becomes a polymorphic function |
| 2025-05-23 19:14:31 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 19:14:47 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | those functions take the dictionaries to the left of the '=>' and return the dictionary for the class to the right of the '=>' |
| 2025-05-23 19:15:27 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | so if you do induction on a type-level list with instances in the obvious way, you get two top-level definitions: a function producing a dictionary for '[] and a function taking a dictionary for xs and returning one for x ': xs |
| 2025-05-23 19:15:31 +0200 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Read error: Connection timed out) |
| 2025-05-23 19:16:32 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | instance constraints are fields in the dictionary, so assuming the instance for x:xs has a constraint requiring an instance for xs, then the dictionary you get at runtime will be a linked list mirroring the structure of the type-level list you're inducting over |
| 2025-05-23 19:18:13 +0200 | <hellwolf> | so there is run-time increase of these dictionaries |
| 2025-05-23 19:18:45 +0200 | <hellwolf> | *the count of |
| 2025-05-23 19:19:41 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 19:19:49 +0200 | <hellwolf> | One more silly question, do you use gerund or 3rd-parson for a constraint: Having vs Has. |
| 2025-05-23 19:20:03 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 19:20:26 +0200 | tomsmeding | uses Has |
| 2025-05-23 19:20:55 +0200 | hellwolf | chooses to differentiate then. |
| 2025-05-23 19:22:03 +0200 | <hellwolf> | (HavingIceCream fridge, HavingSun weather) => instance AGoodDay (fridge, weather) |
| 2025-05-23 19:24:34 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:30a6:c51d:9dbb:1dc5) |
| 2025-05-23 19:24:35 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | reads oddly to me |
| 2025-05-23 19:25:39 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 19:26:02 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 19:26:54 +0200 | <hellwolf> | right. hoogle may agree with you in terms of popularity of two choices. |
| 2025-05-23 19:27:20 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> you would get sick of typing Having pretty quick |
| 2025-05-23 19:28:35 +0200 | <hellwolf> | M-/ |
| 2025-05-23 19:28:56 +0200 | <hellwolf> | C-x p |
| 2025-05-23 19:29:06 +0200 | prasad | (~Thunderbi@c-73-246-138-70.hsd1.in.comcast.net) (Quit: prasad) |
| 2025-05-23 19:29:13 +0200 | <hellwolf> | tab-tab-tab as more modern people would do |
| 2025-05-23 19:29:47 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> Reading it then :) |
| 2025-05-23 19:30:07 +0200 | <hellwolf> | :p okay |
| 2025-05-23 19:30:08 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> * reading |
| 2025-05-23 19:30:17 +0200 | <hellwolf> | I will change to Has |
| 2025-05-23 19:30:18 +0200 | <mauke> | reading :: (Reading it) => it -> () |
| 2025-05-23 19:31:04 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I was trying to think of something shorter, in english or another language, but haven't, other than "Is" |
| 2025-05-23 19:31:34 +0200 | <hellwolf> | Gramatically, gerund can be a substitute of adjective or non, not a statement. And may constraint are adjective or nouns. |
| 2025-05-23 19:31:53 +0200 | <hellwolf> | anyways, I will stop this nonsensical pursuit |
| 2025-05-23 19:32:00 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> how's your DSL / language going hellwolf |
| 2025-05-23 19:32:57 +0200 | <hellwolf> | sm: I have been simplifying it a lot, and I am going to dogfood it myself by deploying a production contract using it. |
| 2025-05-23 19:32:59 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 19:33:03 +0200 | <hellwolf> | check this latest example out: https://github.com/yolc-dev/yul-dsl-monorepo/blob/master/examples/demo/src/ERC20.hs |
| 2025-05-23 19:33:21 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 19:34:44 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> dogfooding++ |
| 2025-05-23 19:34:52 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> it's an EDSL I guess |
| 2025-05-23 19:34:57 +0200 | <hellwolf> | what I am not yet happy is it's too imperative looking, and my idea of having more functional paradigm in it will still take some time. |
| 2025-05-23 19:35:17 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> how does it compare to something like Plutus ? |
| 2025-05-23 19:35:23 +0200 | <hellwolf> | you tell me :) |
| 2025-05-23 19:35:52 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> if I knew, I would :) |
| 2025-05-23 19:36:17 +0200 | <hellwolf> | heh. I think, since it's not a full blown language, I do what I can do: over-optimizing syntax. |
| 2025-05-23 19:36:33 +0200 | <hellwolf> | but the traversable/applicative/foldable part is actually fun, but I haven't finished |
| 2025-05-23 19:36:57 +0200 | <hellwolf> | also being able to have some sort of effect handling, instead of current imperative looking code, is my goal too. |
| 2025-05-23 19:37:22 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I imagine haskell is pretty good for EDSLs but there's some unavoidable leakage of complex concepts |
| 2025-05-23 19:37:34 +0200 | <hellwolf> | I start to realize. |
| 2025-05-23 19:37:48 +0200 | <hellwolf> | Simple things are more complicated <-- a hurdle to onboarding |
| 2025-05-23 19:37:56 +0200 | <hellwolf> | Harder things are simpler <-- that takes time |
| 2025-05-23 19:38:01 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> nod |
| 2025-05-23 19:38:23 +0200 | <monochrom> | If we are to split hair on meaningful names, I have my pet peeve too. IMO we should name like "newtype Identity a = IdentityOf { ofIdentity :: a }". |
| 2025-05-23 19:38:28 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> plutus too is a haskell EDSL AFAIK |
| 2025-05-23 19:38:34 +0200 | <hellwolf> | If I compare my current simple example to Solidity code, it's a bit more code. |
| 2025-05-23 19:39:21 +0200 | <hellwolf> | but I do choose to die on my hill trying to push this data versioning safety feature too. |
| 2025-05-23 19:39:35 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> don't die :) |
| 2025-05-23 19:39:51 +0200 | <hellwolf> | Also, as tom pointed out, I accidentally solved partially the sharing problem with the lineartypes |
| 2025-05-23 19:39:53 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e71c4f256df027c33ba93341.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk |
| 2025-05-23 19:40:12 +0200 | <hellwolf> | However, if people do pure code without linear types, there is still diagram duplication, unless manually dup diagram outputs. |
| 2025-05-23 19:40:27 +0200 | <hellwolf> | future topics.. |
| 2025-05-23 19:40:36 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 19:40:57 +0200 | <hellwolf> | I will do a public demo in a conference next tuesday. that's why I am heads down, thinking about gerund vs. 3rd-parson verb form; /sarcarsm. |
| 2025-05-23 19:40:59 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 19:41:24 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I wonder if an EDSL based on microhs is an interesting alternative these days |
| 2025-05-23 19:41:54 +0200 | <hellwolf> | Maybe. If you choose to let your users live with syntactic noise, then I think it's doable. |
| 2025-05-23 19:42:16 +0200 | <hellwolf> | As I said, I spent way too much time trying to reduce a few letters or symbols. |
| 2025-05-23 19:42:25 +0200 | <hellwolf> | That will require some GHC features. |
| 2025-05-23 19:42:43 +0200 | <hellwolf> | I am not sure it's worth it in the end. But I enjoy it, at least. |
| 2025-05-23 19:43:27 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | sm: my memory tells me that plutus is a ghc plugin |
| 2025-05-23 19:43:36 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> for Science! and enjoyment! |
| 2025-05-23 19:43:57 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> tomsmeding oh, really |
| 2025-05-23 19:44:11 +0200 | <hellwolf> | plutus is a templatehaskell thing |
| 2025-05-23 19:44:12 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | oh it's also template haskell |
| 2025-05-23 19:44:14 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | https://plutus.cardano.intersectmbo.org/docs/using-plinth/compiling-plinth |
| 2025-05-23 19:44:24 +0200 | <hellwolf> | most people don't like it, and uses the alternative plutarch |
| 2025-05-23 19:44:29 +0200 | <hellwolf> | or even now a rust-one |
| 2025-05-23 19:44:32 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | hellwolf: yeah but the plugin is still involved, if I am to believe these docs |
| 2025-05-23 19:44:48 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | > Under the hood, it uses addCorePlugin from the template-haskell package to install the plugin into the compilation pipeline. |
| 2025-05-23 19:45:00 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> sounds like a hybrid sort of beast |
| 2025-05-23 19:45:26 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | reading that page, it rather looks like the TH is a bit of a wrapper to facilitate nicer diagnostics, nothing more |
| 2025-05-23 19:45:54 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I think plutus at some point takes over, perhaps after Core simplification, and translates to their own IR that they then further compile down |
| 2025-05-23 19:46:38 +0200 | <hellwolf> | I am always confused, I thought the IR is also called Plutus |
| 2025-05-23 19:46:49 +0200 | tomsmeding | doesn't know much about that |
| 2025-05-23 19:47:07 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 19:47:08 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | ~all I know is because someone in our group was doing verification of the plutus compiler (by translation validation) |
| 2025-05-23 19:47:20 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | and then you sometimes hear a bit about how things are structured technically |
| 2025-05-23 19:47:33 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 19:47:33 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I have the impression there's more interested in non-haskell full DSLs now like aiken (not surprisingly) |
| 2025-05-23 19:47:50 +0200 | <hellwolf> | I have a Haskell meetup here. And one person from IOG is doing F/V using Agda. |
| 2025-05-23 19:48:37 +0200 | <hellwolf> | I had a question to the world: "Now I am not too sure what "the next 700 programming languages" is about: Is it about creating libraries of vocabularies in a expressive host language, or rather, creating a more expressive host language?" |
| 2025-05-23 19:48:53 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> * aiken, marlowe etc |
| 2025-05-23 19:49:06 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> F/V ? |
| 2025-05-23 19:49:15 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | formal verification? |
| 2025-05-23 19:49:17 +0200 | <hellwolf> | aiken is used by few known projects, I know a person from such a projet. |
| 2025-05-23 19:49:24 +0200 | <hellwolf> | yes, formal verification. |
| 2025-05-23 19:49:27 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I have the impression there's more interest in non-haskell full DSLs like aiken, marlowe etc (not surprisingly) |
| 2025-05-23 19:49:43 +0200 | <hellwolf> | marlowe I think there is not much adoption |
| 2025-05-23 19:52:43 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 19:52:55 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> it's interesting to see the different approaches |
| 2025-05-23 19:53:06 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 19:53:39 +0200 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell |
| 2025-05-23 19:54:42 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> hellwolf: yes, I see: "The virtual machine is a language interpreter which executes a smart contract language called 'Untyped Plutus Core' (abbrev. UPLC) often referred to simply as 'Plutus'." |
| 2025-05-23 19:55:10 +0200 | <hellwolf> | aha, UPLC. |
| 2025-05-23 19:55:23 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> "it is a compilation target (like WebAssembly ... until recently, the only established framework that produced UPLC from a high-level syntax was called 'Plutus-Tx' and happened to be a Haskell framework... |
| 2025-05-23 19:55:26 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | Aiken changes the game by providing a modern framework that compiles straight to UPLC." |
| 2025-05-23 19:56:34 +0200 | <hellwolf> | I thought Haskell should dominate the game of being the host language of other 700 languages. |
| 2025-05-23 19:57:06 +0200 | <hellwolf> | but, it turns out to be other 700 niche languages. |
| 2025-05-23 19:57:09 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 19:57:29 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 19:58:57 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> ("modern" because easier ? implemented in rust ?) |
| 2025-05-23 19:59:27 +0200 | <monochrom> | Humanity loves reinventing things and the not-invented-here attitidue, no? 99.99% of things happening in the tech world, nay, the world, is to be explained by human flaws rather than technical merit. |
| 2025-05-23 19:59:30 +0200 | <hellwolf> | it's a buzz word. |
| 2025-05-23 20:00:04 +0200 | <hellwolf> | "modern" because it's not: "ossified", actively developed, which are probably more objective assessment. |
| 2025-05-23 20:00:33 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> up to date practical docs and attractive friendly website ? |
| 2025-05-23 20:00:39 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> fair enough. It looks good |
| 2025-05-23 20:01:12 +0200 | <hellwolf> | young people dominate the internet, if they are paid, they will make noise |
| 2025-05-23 20:01:24 +0200 | <hellwolf> | when they get old, they will start to defend their shtik |
| 2025-05-23 20:01:53 +0200 | <hellwolf> | the cycle of next 700 languages no one use continues. |
| 2025-05-23 20:02:02 +0200 | omegatron | (~some@user/omegatron) (Quit: Power is a curious thing. It can be contained, hidden, locked away, and yet it always breaks free.) |
| 2025-05-23 20:02:20 +0200 | <EvanR> | HavingHadIceCream a => ... |
| 2025-05-23 20:03:22 +0200 | <hellwolf> | UndecidableInstances |
| 2025-05-23 20:03:30 +0200 | <hellwolf> | no smaller than the head |
| 2025-05-23 20:04:45 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 20:05:10 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 20:08:02 +0200 | sprotte24 | (~sprotte24@p200300d16f16bc005158636fac7acba7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2025-05-23 20:13:17 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 20:13:41 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 20:14:51 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 20:16:54 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | the ice cream, or the instance? |
| 2025-05-23 20:18:44 +0200 | <monochrom> | I have never eaten ice cream that's bigger than my head. >:) |
| 2025-05-23 20:18:50 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 20:19:13 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 20:23:00 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
| 2025-05-23 20:23:32 +0200 | <EvanR> | head must be bigger than this to ride |
| 2025-05-23 20:23:43 +0200 | <EvanR> | smaller than this? |
| 2025-05-23 20:24:01 +0200 | <EvanR> | head must be bigger than this to recurse |
| 2025-05-23 20:25:18 +0200 | monochrom | submits PR to GHC for s/my head has exploded/my head has imploded/ |
| 2025-05-23 20:25:44 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 20:25:46 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 20:26:06 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 20:28:54 +0200 | <hellwolf> | I will need to defend Haskell in front of people don't know about haskell in few days. What's the bet advice. |
| 2025-05-23 20:29:17 +0200 | <hellwolf> | *what's your advices? |
| 2025-05-23 20:29:43 +0200 | <sm> | explain the reasons you chose it ? which are hopefully sensible and convincing :) |
| 2025-05-23 20:29:44 +0200 | <EvanR> | oof |
| 2025-05-23 20:29:59 +0200 | <EvanR> | that's always rough |
| 2025-05-23 20:30:28 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 20:31:05 +0200 | <sm> | hellwolf: you might find some inspiration in https://discourse.haskell.org/t/emphasize-why-haskell-on-haskell-org-landing-page/12036 |
| 2025-05-23 20:31:32 +0200 | <sm> | here's two good quotes (might not be relevant to your audience though): |
| 2025-05-23 20:31:45 +0200 | <sm> | In Haskell, it’s possible to do truly major heart-lung-transplant refactors on a 200k-loc code base that is 30 years old. (I know, because I do that to GHC.) That is a major value proposition. Instead of having a 5-year lifetime, your investment has a multi-decade lifetime. -- SPJ |
| 2025-05-23 20:32:04 +0200 | <sm> | Because Haskell is the result of research and good design decisions, Haskell feels more concise and principled than other languages. -- sgraf |
| 2025-05-23 20:32:29 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 20:32:52 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 20:33:04 +0200 | <TMA> | hellwolf: give up any hope. a clear mind devoid of preconceptions, longing and suffering is reportedly useful in such situations |
| 2025-05-23 20:33:39 +0200 | <sm> | :) |
| 2025-05-23 20:33:53 +0200 | <monochrom> | My advice: Don't bother defending Haskell (or anything). |
| 2025-05-23 20:34:48 +0200 | <monochrom> | Multiple pyschology research results show that people make up their minds first then rationalize. If you try to defend/debate, it only steels their resolve. |
| 2025-05-23 20:34:50 +0200 | <hellwolf> | I saw SPJ's comment. I think it was quite spot-on. |
| 2025-05-23 20:35:36 +0200 | <hellwolf> | Yea, I guess my angle would be just be modest: hey it works, I am using it, maybe you want to try too. |
| 2025-05-23 20:35:38 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 20:35:40 +0200 | <sm> | is your audience is people interested in smart contracts ? then large software may not interest them, but high assurance should |
| 2025-05-23 20:35:52 +0200 | <hellwolf> | "should" |
| 2025-05-23 20:36:33 +0200 | <sm> | eg show a list of exploits and bugs in non-haskell smart contracts and a corresponding list for the haskell ones |
| 2025-05-23 20:36:50 +0200 | <hellwolf> | that's right, I have made two examples. |
| 2025-05-23 20:38:48 +0200 | <monochrom> | "Haskell contracts are perfectly balanced with no exploits"? >:) |
| 2025-05-23 20:38:59 +0200 | <sm> | maybe emphasise how an expressive language and advanced type checker is your assistant and power tool, not an obstacle/enemy |
| 2025-05-23 20:39:36 +0200 | <sm> | or better, show it. Not easy |
| 2025-05-23 20:39:54 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 20:40:18 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 20:41:32 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 20:42:13 +0200 | dyniec | (~dyniec@dybiec.info) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 20:42:33 +0200 | <sm> | I think when we are discussing "Haskell", we should distinguish language and ecosystem. Outsiders see it all as "Haskell", we insiders often focus on the core language and conveniently forget about tools, documentation, compiler extensions... |
| 2025-05-23 20:42:52 +0200 | dyniec | (~dyniec@dybiec.info) |
| 2025-05-23 20:43:30 +0200 | <sm> | (language extensions, I meant) |
| 2025-05-23 20:44:16 +0200 | <monochrom> | de facto there is no difference >:) |
| 2025-05-23 20:44:45 +0200 | <monochrom> | Anyone wanna volunteer to add GHC2021 to Hugs? >:) |
| 2025-05-23 20:46:50 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 20:47:18 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 20:47:33 +0200 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2025-05-23 20:47:43 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 20:49:01 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 20:51:32 +0200 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect |
| 2025-05-23 20:53:25 +0200 | <hellwolf> | HUGS2026? |
| 2025-05-23 20:53:28 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 20:53:41 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 20:53:42 +0200 | <hellwolf> | 05-23 21:39 <sm> or better, show it. Not easy |
| 2025-05-23 20:53:42 +0200 | <hellwolf> | Yea... showing it is the way; people are rather skeptical, otherwise. |
| 2025-05-23 20:53:50 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 20:55:47 +0200 | <monochrom> | Haha HUGS2026 includes TREX (extensible records) and therefore trumps GHC. >:) |
| 2025-05-23 20:56:10 +0200 | <EvanR> | there are so many stupid justifications for "not haskell" it's ridiculous. Makes it hard to get to the good justifications for not haskell! |
| 2025-05-23 20:56:43 +0200 | <EvanR> | stupid: haskell is only for the elite haxxors |
| 2025-05-23 20:57:06 +0200 | <EvanR> | you can't win this argument |
| 2025-05-23 20:57:41 +0200 | lol_ | (~lol@2603:3016:1e01:b960:39f8:84ab:20bd:ae78) |
| 2025-05-23 20:57:51 +0200 | <monochrom> | I think I can "win" by pointing out that I use Haskell and I am neither elite nor haxxors. |
| 2025-05-23 20:58:09 +0200 | <monochrom> | But again, that still won't *win*. People have already made up their minds. |
| 2025-05-23 20:58:21 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> hellwolf if you are using haskell productively yourself, speaking about that can be convincing. You might be still deep in DSL implementation though |
| 2025-05-23 21:00:06 +0200 | caconym7 | (~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye) |
| 2025-05-23 21:00:30 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> well it's possible to influence minds sometimes.. but yes for real advice we'd need to know more context |
| 2025-05-23 21:00:46 +0200 | caconym7 | (~caconym@user/caconym) caconym |
| 2025-05-23 21:00:58 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 21:01:22 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 21:01:35 +0200 | <__monty__> | monochrom: Have a code snipped using that newtype naming? |
| 2025-05-23 21:01:40 +0200 | <monochrom> | or some people. Of course everything I said should be quantified by "most" not really "all". |
| 2025-05-23 21:01:41 +0200 | jcarpenter2 | (~lol@2603:3016:1e01:b960:307d:f5b5:c6a2:664f) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 21:01:59 +0200 | <EvanR> | yes hellwolf show these defendees what you're working on |
| 2025-05-23 21:02:04 +0200 | <monochrom> | But you look at social media you feel like there is no exception. |
| 2025-05-23 21:02:15 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> pff social media... |
| 2025-05-23 21:03:01 +0200 | <EvanR> | oh yeah that thing with 100% false information and conspiracy theory |
| 2025-05-23 21:03:06 +0200 | <EvanR> | it's great |
| 2025-05-23 21:03:29 +0200 | <hellwolf> | what's wrong with trying to be "elites", or trying to be better? |
| 2025-05-23 21:03:35 +0200 | <hellwolf> | I never understood that argument. |
| 2025-05-23 21:03:36 +0200 | <EvanR> | exactly |
| 2025-05-23 21:03:45 +0200 | <monochrom> | __monty__: My https://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/cont.xhtml#Cont uses "ContOf" and "unCont". (Back then I didn't think of "ofCont".) |
| 2025-05-23 21:03:46 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> it's sometimes great sometimes awful but kind of like traditional media, it's definitely not the same as reality |
| 2025-05-23 21:03:47 +0200 | <EvanR> | how many levels of flawed premises are there |
| 2025-05-23 21:04:44 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-05-23 21:05:55 +0200 | target_i | (~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) target_i |
| 2025-05-23 21:07:29 +0200 | <monochrom> | I also thought of "deCont". |
| 2025-05-23 21:08:12 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 21:08:34 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 21:13:16 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | hellwolf: my understanding of the word "elite" in this context is not to be better, but look down upon the others |
| 2025-05-23 21:13:35 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | trying to be better is a good thing; using that as a reason to consider others worse than yourself is not |
| 2025-05-23 21:13:57 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | there are reasons to consider people worse than yourself -- committing atrocities is one. Not using haskell is not. ;) |
| 2025-05-23 21:14:52 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | so "elite haxxors" is "those people that consider themselves above the plebs" |
| 2025-05-23 21:15:11 +0200 | <EvanR> | clearly the answer is to consider elites worse than yourself |
| 2025-05-23 21:15:34 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 21:15:52 +0200 | <EvanR> | causing an ordering paradox where you can conclude anything |
| 2025-05-23 21:15:59 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 21:18:20 +0200 | <hellwolf> | now it becomes undecidable problem. I mean, "can we just discuss the matter at hand, instead of trying to infer intentions" |
| 2025-05-23 21:21:12 +0200 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty |
| 2025-05-23 21:21:37 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 21:22:00 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 21:26:02 +0200 | <hellwolf> | but I agree with tom, it's the condescending that people often detest. also, people often project, and draw strawman too. since when, Haskell had gotten this reputation is something predate me, I guess. |
| 2025-05-23 21:26:41 +0200 | <hellwolf> | I wonder, if the rustlings having a better reputation, relatively speaking. |
| 2025-05-23 21:27:18 +0200 | lxsameer | (~lxsameer@Serene/lxsameer) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 21:28:50 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 21:29:13 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 21:29:51 +0200 | <JuanDaugherty> | i would never defend hs or anything else |
| 2025-05-23 21:30:10 +0200 | <JuanDaugherty> | wasted effort |
| 2025-05-23 21:30:38 +0200 | <JuanDaugherty> | express an opinion, offer advice, sure |
| 2025-05-23 21:31:05 +0200 | <JuanDaugherty> | argue with normies / the ignorant masses? i dont think so. hs weenies ftw |
| 2025-05-23 21:33:16 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> we don't know who hellwolf's audience is - management, colleagues, customers, volunteers, new programmers.. |
| 2025-05-23 21:33:27 +0200 | <JuanDaugherty> | elite is good, i heard they;re gonna bring meritocracy back |
| 2025-05-23 21:33:41 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 21:34:04 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 21:34:38 +0200 | <JuanDaugherty> | elite agers in particular, i'm shooting for that |
| 2025-05-23 21:34:46 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> sm: hackers |
| 2025-05-23 21:35:05 +0200 | <__monty__> | I wonder why other languages don't get the same reputation. Most unwelcome I've felt was undercover at a Go meetup. Admittedly the presentation of the evening was a PhD student trying to show why Haskell is cool. But IMO they weren't bashing or being elitist so the strong negative response wasn't warranted. |
| 2025-05-23 21:35:11 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> in your company ? community you're trying to attract ? |
| 2025-05-23 21:35:17 +0200 | <JuanDaugherty> | oh come on |
| 2025-05-23 21:35:28 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) siracusa |
| 2025-05-23 21:35:36 +0200 | <JuanDaugherty> | hassle is a ball breaker of a lang |
| 2025-05-23 21:35:49 +0200 | <JuanDaugherty> | u know it, u love it for that |
| 2025-05-23 21:36:10 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> hassle 😂 |
| 2025-05-23 21:36:49 +0200 | <__monty__> | But they hadn't even given it a shot, so how would they know? (I actually disagree FWIW.) |
| 2025-05-23 21:38:01 +0200 | <JuanDaugherty> | and cause it can do stuff the others cant on the ground of a) what it is, ie. the end evolution of ml and b) the leaf of that tree that got the most work out into pracicality and a mass of community supplied function, smugness ensues |
| 2025-05-23 21:39:12 +0200 | <JuanDaugherty> | 1 2 profit, that's what we want; hard stuff take a hike |
| 2025-05-23 21:39:39 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> the Hassell programming language, no it's really good and easy, trust me |
| 2025-05-23 21:39:44 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 21:39:56 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> that's what they're hearing :) |
| 2025-05-23 21:40:09 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 21:41:41 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-05-23 21:42:41 +0200 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah |
| 2025-05-23 21:44:36 +0200 | <__monty__> | It was a shame because we also arranged for them to see a small part of the fab at IMEC. |
| 2025-05-23 21:45:45 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-05-23 21:46:10 +0200 | sabathan2 | (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2025-05-23 21:46:16 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> undercover? how do you mean __monty__: |