| 2025-02-08 00:02:56 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2025-02-08 00:07:10 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-02-08 00:08:08 +0100 | <EvanR> | >3rd rate college grad |
| 2025-02-08 00:08:12 +0100 | <EvanR> | I resemble that remark |
| 2025-02-08 00:08:33 +0100 | <EvanR> | but also not only do I understand recursion it was actually on the syllabus once |
| 2025-02-08 00:11:20 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-02-08 00:12:21 +0100 | foul_owl | (~kerry@193.42.0.126) foul_owl |
| 2025-02-08 00:14:28 +0100 | <c_wraith> | I'm still unsure if understanding recursion was made easier by simultaneously learning how compilers implement it or not. |
| 2025-02-08 00:15:09 +0100 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.197) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-02-08 00:17:21 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Knowing about the stack is good for imperative languages but bad for functional languages IMHO |
| 2025-02-08 00:17:50 +0100 | <geekosaur> | I'm… not sure I ever didn't understand recursion. I recall being annoyed that there was no way to do it in MS-BASIC |
| 2025-02-08 00:19:48 +0100 | MyNetAz | (~MyNetAz@user/MyNetAz) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-02-08 00:25:33 +0100 | <Leary> | Yeah, for me recursion was an obvious, intuitive tool for simplifying problems; I'd instead stuggle to solve them /without/ it. Though I may have understood it via the principle of induction. |
| 2025-02-08 00:26:48 +0100 | MyNetAz | (~MyNetAz@user/MyNetAz) MyNetAz |
| 2025-02-08 00:32:13 +0100 | <geekosaur> | yeh, I can't say whether I'd encountered that by that point or not |
| 2025-02-08 00:32:35 +0100 | <geekosaur> | but even so, the notion of reducing a problem to a simpler version seemed pretty obvious to me |
| 2025-02-08 00:46:51 +0100 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2025-02-08 00:47:44 +0100 | <hololeap> | I asked this a year back because for some reason this package is hard for me to remember and it's surprisingly difficult to search for |
| 2025-02-08 00:48:13 +0100 | <hololeap> | but what is the name of the package that contains an Either like data type that accumulates errors? |
| 2025-02-08 00:49:01 +0100 | <Leary> | @hackage validation |
| 2025-02-08 00:49:01 +0100 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/validation |
| 2025-02-08 00:49:24 +0100 | otbergsten | (~otbergste@user/otbergsten) () |
| 2025-02-08 00:49:37 +0100 | <hololeap> | thanks |
| 2025-02-08 00:51:20 +0100 | <hololeap> | I also remember there was a related typeclass that was considered to be "between" Applicative and Monad |
| 2025-02-08 00:51:39 +0100 | <Leary> | @hackage selective |
| 2025-02-08 00:51:39 +0100 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/selective |
| 2025-02-08 00:53:36 +0100 | <hololeap> | thank you |
| 2025-02-08 00:55:14 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-02-08 00:59:22 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-02-08 01:03:24 +0100 | foul_owl | (~kerry@193.42.0.126) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-02-08 01:16:36 +0100 | robobub | (uid248673@id-248673.uxbridge.irccloud.com) robobub |
| 2025-02-08 01:17:50 +0100 | foul_owl | (~kerry@174-21-138-88.tukw.qwest.net) foul_owl |
| 2025-02-08 01:19:25 +0100 | Square | (~Square@user/square) Square |
| 2025-02-08 01:19:43 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
| 2025-02-08 01:23:24 +0100 | sprotte24 | (~sprotte24@p200300d16f162e00a0abf896d629d189.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2025-02-08 01:40:33 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Preetham Gujjula> Is there any way to infer "Eq (f a)" from "(Eq a, Eq1 f)"? Here's a small example: |
| 2025-02-08 01:40:33 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | ... long message truncated: https://kf8nh.com/_heisenbridge/media/kf8nh.com/txkgrmSDUVjUVWVJRVXKYhNi/LYPi2Ize3LU (21 lines) |
| 2025-02-08 01:41:23 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Preetham Gujjula> Is there any way to infer "Eq (f a)" from "(Eq a, Eq1 f)"? Here's a small example: |
| 2025-02-08 01:41:23 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | ... long message truncated: https://kf8nh.com/_heisenbridge/media/kf8nh.com/IWoCXjVZUXtnETfIMFBBSOuB/v7p8RIuNF04 (21 lines) |
| 2025-02-08 01:43:58 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-02-08 01:45:01 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Preetham Gujjula> My apologies everyone, I meant to post this in the Haskell matrix channel |
| 2025-02-08 01:48:08 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-02-08 01:49:49 +0100 | <Leary> | Preetham: You can write `newtype F1 f a = F1 (f a); instance (Eq1 f, Eq a) => Eq (F1 f a)` and use `coerce @[f a] @[F1 f a]`. |
| 2025-02-08 01:51:20 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> Preetham Gujjula: worked perfectly in my matrix client. :) And in IRC client, it was also readable, with two pastebin links |
| 2025-02-08 01:52:53 +0100 | remedan | (~remedan@ip-62-245-108-153.bb.vodafone.cz) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2025-02-08 01:54:50 +0100 | remedan | (~remedan@ip-62-245-108-153.bb.vodafone.cz) remedan |
| 2025-02-08 01:55:40 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Preetham Gujjula> Oh good to hear sm :) |
| 2025-02-08 02:02:02 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Preetham Gujjula> Leary: I don't think that idea works, GHC warns: |
| 2025-02-08 02:02:02 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | ... long message truncated: https://kf8nh.com/_heisenbridge/media/kf8nh.com/AmMeFJGdLlJCilBtJKDYAhqG/0S1DLbftubs (10 lines) |
| 2025-02-08 02:02:46 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Preetham Gujjula> Also why can't I just use the "F1" constructor instead of "coerce"? |
| 2025-02-08 02:08:00 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Preetham Gujjula> Oh wait I see, I can write an implementation for "(==)" using "eq1": |
| 2025-02-08 02:08:00 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | ... long message truncated: https://kf8nh.com/_heisenbridge/media/kf8nh.com/SGoxowAGeEDwOguEHnahrMWL/IttEtTK99nU (11 lines) |
| 2025-02-08 02:08:18 +0100 | <Leary> | Preetham: You still have to define `(==)`, but you can do that with `eq1`. Using `coerce` over `map F1` may avoid a needless traversal of the list, though rewrite rules would likely evade it anyway. |
| 2025-02-08 02:10:39 +0100 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) bitdex |
| 2025-02-08 02:13:11 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Preetham Gujjula> I see, thanks Leary! |
| 2025-02-08 02:15:21 +0100 | remedan | (~remedan@ip-62-245-108-153.bb.vodafone.cz) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2025-02-08 02:15:44 +0100 | cheater | (~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-02-08 02:16:29 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Preetham Gujjula> It does feel a little clunky. The current definition of "Eq1" is "class (forall a. Eq a => Eq (f a)) => Eq1 (f :: Type -> Type)", but I noticed that if we write |
| 2025-02-08 02:16:32 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | ... long message truncated: https://kf8nh.com/_heisenbridge/media/kf8nh.com/KekKHFuFggARKJEfWBCnMgyf/rXzjao_nHrA (6 lines) |
| 2025-02-08 02:17:13 +0100 | remedan | (~remedan@ip-62-245-108-153.bb.vodafone.cz) remedan |
| 2025-02-08 02:21:14 +0100 | <Leary> | You're probably using a version of GHC/base from before that quantified superclass was added, otherwise it should work the same. |
| 2025-02-08 02:22:30 +0100 | remedan | (~remedan@ip-62-245-108-153.bb.vodafone.cz) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2025-02-08 02:22:58 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-02-08 02:23:30 +0100 | remedan | (~remedan@ip-62-245-108-153.bb.vodafone.cz) remedan |
| 2025-02-08 02:24:46 +0100 | acidjnk_new3 | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f9788a4d7c575081360.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2025-02-08 02:30:29 +0100 | zwro | (~z@user/zero) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-02-08 02:30:50 +0100 | zero | (~z@user/zero) zero |
| 2025-02-08 02:32:02 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-02-08 02:36:34 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-02-08 02:45:00 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Preetham Gujjula> Ah yes, you're right it works on later GHCs. Thank you again! |
| 2025-02-08 02:52:10 +0100 | remedan | (~remedan@ip-62-245-108-153.bb.vodafone.cz) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2025-02-08 02:53:08 +0100 | terrorjack | (~terrorjac@2a01:4f8:c17:a66e::) (The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
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| 2025-02-08 02:55:11 +0100 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2025-02-08 02:58:07 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal |
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| 2025-02-08 03:09:38 +0100 | zero | (~z@user/zero) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-02-08 03:13:03 +0100 | zero | (~z@user/zero) zero |
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| 2025-02-08 03:29:32 +0100 | emergence7 | (emergence@vm0.max-p.me) emergence |
| 2025-02-08 03:29:51 +0100 | emergence | (emergence@vm0.max-p.me) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-02-08 03:29:51 +0100 | emergence7 | emergence |
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| 2025-02-08 04:00:55 +0100 | tavare | (~tavare@user/tavare) tavare |
| 2025-02-08 04:02:53 +0100 | Guest42 | (~Guest42@220-233-36-23.ip4.exetel.com.au) |
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| 2025-02-08 04:08:22 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2025-02-08 04:08:52 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-02-08 04:09:53 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal |
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| 2025-02-08 04:15:58 +0100 | <monochrom> | c_wraith: I am arrogant, I say that I am sure recursion is not more easily learned by see how to compile. In fact, has anything been made easier to learn by seeing how to compile it? |
| 2025-02-08 04:16:42 +0100 | <c_wraith> | for some people, yes. |
| 2025-02-08 04:17:08 +0100 | <monochrom> | I even go as far as making this joke. (Context: Everyone except me teach recursion by teaching how to execute by hand.) Your computer has been executing recursion for years. Has it learned anything yet? |
| 2025-02-08 04:18:02 +0100 | <c_wraith> | I have absolutely seen some people go "oh, it's just using a stack" and never have an issue with it again. |
| 2025-02-08 04:18:43 +0100 | <monochrom> | Have they gone one step further and go "and the stack is just an optimization"? |
| 2025-02-08 04:19:08 +0100 | <monochrom> | Because if you don't mind a quadratic slowdown, you don't need a stack. |
| 2025-02-08 04:21:42 +0100 | <monochrom> | (It is still not O(1) space. Every procedure call becomes an inline expansion of the procedure text.) |
| 2025-02-08 04:27:29 +0100 | <geekosaur> | how well does that work for a non-fixed number of calls? |
| 2025-02-08 04:27:58 +0100 | <monochrom> | Equally well. I never assumed a fixed number. |
| 2025-02-08 04:29:27 +0100 | <monochrom> | A functional example goes like this. To execute f(5), it goes: f(5) -> 5 * f(4) -> 5 * (4 * f(3)) -> 5 * (4 * (3 * f(2))) -> ... |
| 2025-02-08 04:30:50 +0100 | <monochrom> | If I don't have a stack, I just have to scan the long expression "5 * (4 * (3 * f(2)))" for the redex, f(2). This is slow, but I don't need a stack. A stack is there to save a pointer to the f(2) subexpr so I don't have to search. |
| 2025-02-08 04:34:42 +0100 | remedan | (~remedan@ip-62-245-108-153.bb.vodafone.cz) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2025-02-08 04:35:26 +0100 | <monochrom> | (And also a pointer to the 3*f(2) so I don't have to search in the future when I'm ready for it. And so on so forth.) |
| 2025-02-08 04:36:58 +0100 | remedan | (~remedan@ip-62-245-108-153.bb.vodafone.cz) remedan |
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| 2025-02-08 07:18:11 +0100 | remedan | (~remedan@ip-62-245-108-153.bb.vodafone.cz) remedan |
| 2025-02-08 07:20:00 +0100 | tavare | (~tavare@150.129.88.189) |
| 2025-02-08 07:20:00 +0100 | tavare | (~tavare@150.129.88.189) (Changing host) |
| 2025-02-08 07:20:00 +0100 | tavare | (~tavare@user/tavare) tavare |
| 2025-02-08 07:23:51 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-02-08 07:24:41 +0100 | tnt2 | (~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1 |
| 2025-02-08 07:25:09 +0100 | tnt1 | (~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-02-08 07:25:09 +0100 | tnt2 | tnt1 |
| 2025-02-08 07:28:02 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-02-08 07:28:30 +0100 | foul_owl | (~kerry@193.42.0.122) foul_owl |
| 2025-02-08 07:32:17 +0100 | igemnace | (~igemnace@user/igemnace) (Quit: ZNC 1.9.0+deb2build3 - https://znc.in) |
| 2025-02-08 07:33:15 +0100 | igemnace | (~igemnace@user/igemnace) igemnace |
| 2025-02-08 07:35:20 +0100 | tnt2 | (~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1 |
| 2025-02-08 07:36:34 +0100 | tnt1 | (~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-02-08 07:36:34 +0100 | tnt2 | tnt1 |
| 2025-02-08 07:38:12 +0100 | takuan | (~takuan@d8D86B601.access.telenet.be) |
| 2025-02-08 07:47:13 +0100 | tnt2 | (~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1 |
| 2025-02-08 07:47:19 +0100 | tnt1 | (~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-02-08 07:47:19 +0100 | tnt2 | tnt1 |
| 2025-02-08 07:47:59 +0100 | arahael | (~arahael@user/arahael) (Quit: leaving) |