| 2026-02-04 00:00:27 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-04 00:02:58 +0100 | wickedjargon | (~user@24.83.46.194) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-02-04 00:03:48 +0100 | <gentauro> | tomsmeding: did Haskell move to GitHub? I thought development was at GitLab |
| 2026-02-04 00:04:07 +0100 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 00:05:43 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 00:05:56 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | gentauro: GHC is on gitlab, various other things are on github |
| 2026-02-04 00:07:18 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | ghcup was originally on the haskell gitlab too, but moved to github a few years back |
| 2026-02-04 00:07:32 +0100 | <monochrom> | That's an interesting move. |
| 2026-02-04 00:07:48 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | I'm not sure what was the reasoning behind it |
| 2026-02-04 00:08:15 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | but it's maerwald so he probably had a good reason for it :p |
| 2026-02-04 00:13:56 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2026-02-04 00:14:13 +0100 | infinity0 | (~infinity0@pwned.gg) infinity0 |
| 2026-02-04 00:14:41 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | gentauro: and in general, "haskell" is not a single person or a single project. :P |
| 2026-02-04 00:16:14 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-04 00:21:11 +0100 | Square2 | (~Square@user/square) Square |
| 2026-02-04 00:21:37 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 00:31:53 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-04 00:33:29 +0100 | haritz | (~hrtz@user/haritz) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-02-04 00:36:54 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 00:40:43 +0100 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-85-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2026-02-04 00:41:59 +0100 | jmcantrell_ | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell |
| 2026-02-04 00:42:55 +0100 | _JusSx_ | (~jussx@78.211.92.21) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 00:42:59 +0100 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-85-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2026-02-04 00:44:20 +0100 | _JusSx_ | (~jussx@78.210.76.107) |
| 2026-02-04 00:47:42 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-04 00:51:25 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> current discussion of this: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/26824 |
| 2026-02-04 00:52:31 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 00:53:23 +0100 | Googulator | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-216f-0081-f2ad-9e0f-9d89.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2026-02-04 00:53:38 +0100 | Googulator | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-216f-0081-f2ad-9e0f-9d89.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2026-02-04 00:54:41 +0100 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-85-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2026-02-04 00:54:55 +0100 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-85-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2026-02-04 01:03:29 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-04 01:06:55 +0100 | karenw | (~karenw@user/karenw) karenw |
| 2026-02-04 01:08:07 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 01:08:43 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 01:17:13 +0100 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:e10b:1e35:aa5b:abb9) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 01:19:16 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-04 01:20:09 +0100 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@85-156-32-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Tuplanolla |
| 2026-02-04 01:26:07 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 01:30:01 +0100 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:e10b:1e35:aa5b:abb9) |
| 2026-02-04 01:31:09 +0100 | Googulator | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-216f-0081-f2ad-9e0f-9d89.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2026-02-04 01:31:16 +0100 | Googulator61 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-216f-0081-f2ad-9e0f-9d89.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2026-02-04 01:34:45 +0100 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo |
| 2026-02-04 01:37:18 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-04 01:38:35 +0100 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Quit: sord937) |
| 2026-02-04 01:42:13 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 01:47:06 +0100 | wickedjargon | (~user@24.83.46.194) wickedjargon |
| 2026-02-04 01:50:30 +0100 | wickedjargon | (~user@24.83.46.194) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-02-04 01:50:36 +0100 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:e10b:1e35:aa5b:abb9) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 01:50:48 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-04 01:51:13 +0100 | wickedjargon | (~user@24.83.46.194) wickedjargon |
| 2026-02-04 01:55:59 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 01:59:11 +0100 | Digitteknohippie | (~user@user/digit) Digit |
| 2026-02-04 01:59:29 +0100 | Digit | (~user@user/digit) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 02:00:56 +0100 | paddymahoney | (~paddymaho@pool-99-250-10-137.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-02-04 02:06:39 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-04 02:09:18 +0100 | otto_s | (~user@p4ff273b1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 2026-02-04 02:11:43 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 02:16:06 +0100 | wickedjargon | (~user@24.83.46.194) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-02-04 02:16:45 +0100 | <yin> | > mempty :: Maybe Char |
| 2026-02-04 02:16:46 +0100 | <lambdabot> | No instance for ‘Semigroup Char’ arising from a use of ‘mempty’ |
| 2026-02-04 02:16:46 +0100 | <lambdabot> | In the expression: mempty :: Maybe Char |
| 2026-02-04 02:16:51 +0100 | <yin> | isn't this weird? |
| 2026-02-04 02:21:28 +0100 | mvk | (~mvk@2607:fea8:5c9d:ee00::5716) mvk |
| 2026-02-04 02:21:31 +0100 | mvk | (~mvk@2607:fea8:5c9d:ee00::5716) (Client Quit) |
| 2026-02-04 02:22:20 +0100 | Square2 | (~Square@user/square) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-02-04 02:22:23 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-04 02:23:20 +0100 | <ncf> | that there's no Semigroup instance for Char? not particularly, no |
| 2026-02-04 02:23:47 +0100 | <ncf> | or that Monoid (Maybe a) requires Semigroup a? that one might be up for debate |
| 2026-02-04 02:26:53 +0100 | <yin> | the latter yeah, but i get it |
| 2026-02-04 02:27:18 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 02:29:13 +0100 | Digitteknohippie | Digit |
| 2026-02-04 02:29:14 +0100 | <EvanR> | maybe you're thinking of First |
| 2026-02-04 02:29:49 +0100 | omidmash6 | (~omidmash@user/omidmash) omidmash |
| 2026-02-04 02:29:56 +0100 | <EvanR> | > mempty :: First (Maybe Char) |
| 2026-02-04 02:29:57 +0100 | <lambdabot> | First {getFirst = Nothing} |
| 2026-02-04 02:31:02 +0100 | <EvanR> | > mempty :: Maybe (NonEmpty Char) |
| 2026-02-04 02:31:03 +0100 | <lambdabot> | Nothing |
| 2026-02-04 02:31:25 +0100 | trickard_ | trickard |
| 2026-02-04 02:31:42 +0100 | omidmash | (~omidmash@user/omidmash) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 02:31:42 +0100 | omidmash6 | omidmash |
| 2026-02-04 02:32:55 +0100 | Square2 | (~Square@user/square) Square |
| 2026-02-04 02:32:59 +0100 | <EvanR> | > First (Just 'a') <> First (Just 'b') |
| 2026-02-04 02:33:00 +0100 | <lambdabot> | First {getFirst = Just 'a'} |
| 2026-02-04 02:33:26 +0100 | <EvanR> | > Just 'a' <> Just 'b' -- what should happen |
| 2026-02-04 02:33:27 +0100 | <lambdabot> | No instance for ‘Semigroup Char’ arising from a use of ‘<>’ |
| 2026-02-04 02:33:27 +0100 | <lambdabot> | In the expression: Just 'a' <> Just 'b' |
| 2026-02-04 02:33:48 +0100 | <EvanR> | Just ('a' <> 'b') |
| 2026-02-04 02:38:12 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-04 02:42:35 +0100 | <probie> | I propose Just ('a' <> 'b') should be Just (chr ((ord 'a' + ord 'b') `mod` (ord maxBound))). It's a lawful instance |
| 2026-02-04 02:42:50 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 02:43:21 +0100 | <EvanR> | a C programmer would be impressed... except the modulo is by some oddball number 1114112 ? |
| 2026-02-04 02:43:52 +0100 | <EvanR> | to me it seems like adding the note B to the note F... makes sense if you assume MIDI but... |
| 2026-02-04 02:44:26 +0100 | <EvanR> | just seems like defining things for the sake of it so "they do something" (js style) |
| 2026-02-04 02:50:10 +0100 | xff0x | (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) |
| 2026-02-04 02:53:55 +0100 | <geekosaur> | we already do that (see `Foldable` and `Traversable` instances on tuples) |
| 2026-02-04 02:54:21 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-04 02:55:40 +0100 | <probie> | > sum (3,4) |
| 2026-02-04 02:55:41 +0100 | <lambdabot> | 4 |
| 2026-02-04 02:56:04 +0100 | <probie> | makes sense to me :p |
| 2026-02-04 02:56:33 +0100 | <probie> | embarrassing when trying to explain to someone just learning Haskell who expects 7 |
| 2026-02-04 02:59:19 +0100 | rainbyte | (~rainbyte@186.22.19.214) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-02-04 02:59:39 +0100 | <EvanR> | insofaras Functor works on pairs, it makes sense |
| 2026-02-04 03:00:12 +0100 | <EvanR> | kind of a if it's a functor then it can be folded for better or worse |
| 2026-02-04 03:01:13 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 03:01:22 +0100 | <EvanR> | as it stands somebody can define a Semigroup for Char to carry out their version of great justice, whatever it is |
| 2026-02-04 03:01:49 +0100 | <probie> | Sure, but at that point why don't we add https://hackage.haskell.org/package/acme-default to base |
| 2026-02-04 03:01:49 +0100 | <EvanR> | without inflicting it on us... hopefully |
| 2026-02-04 03:02:04 +0100 | <EvanR> | how is that related |
| 2026-02-04 03:02:21 +0100 | prdak | (~Thunderbi@user/prdak) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-02-04 03:02:26 +0100 | <EvanR> | defining stuff in your program means it should be in base? |
| 2026-02-04 03:02:48 +0100 | prdak | (~Thunderbi@user/prdak) prdak |
| 2026-02-04 03:03:04 +0100 | <EvanR> | and I'm wrong about functor to foldable |
| 2026-02-04 03:03:28 +0100 | <EvanR> | in general |
| 2026-02-04 03:04:36 +0100 | <probie> | Since we'd moved to talking about Foldable/Traversable for tuples, I interpreted your Semigroup for Char to be implying it should be added to base (after all, it has to be, or it's an orphan instance) |
| 2026-02-04 03:06:19 +0100 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@85-156-32-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 03:12:25 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-04 03:17:30 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 03:29:45 +0100 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2026-02-04 03:30:07 +0100 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) siracusa |
| 2026-02-04 03:44:41 +0100 | infinity0 | (~infinity0@pwned.gg) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 03:53:06 +0100 | omidmash | (~omidmash@user/omidmash) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 2026-02-04 03:56:32 +0100 | omidmash | (~omidmash@user/omidmash) omidmash |
| 2026-02-04 03:56:49 +0100 | karenw | (~karenw@user/karenw) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 04:18:42 +0100 | <EvanR> | I heard orphans are impossible, then we have packages on hackage specifically advertising orphan instances |
| 2026-02-04 04:19:20 +0100 | <EvanR> | that it would be an Orphan is good, so that might go a ways to stop it from getting out of hand |
| 2026-02-04 04:31:05 +0100 | notzmv | (~umar@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 04:31:44 +0100 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-85-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2026-02-04 04:31:58 +0100 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-85-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2026-02-04 04:37:19 +0100 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 04:41:39 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-04 04:43:52 +0100 | jmcantrell_ | jmcantrell |
| 2026-02-04 04:47:07 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 04:49:59 +0100 | DragonMaus | (~DragonMau@user/dragonmaus) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-02-04 04:50:26 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-04 04:50:35 +0100 | DragonMaus | (~DragonMau@user/dragonmaus) DragonMaus |
| 2026-02-04 04:55:03 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@71.84.33.135) peterbecich |
| 2026-02-04 04:55:31 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 05:05:59 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2026-02-04 05:11:27 +0100 | Googulator61 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-216f-0081-f2ad-9e0f-9d89.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2026-02-04 05:11:44 +0100 | Googulator61 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-216f-0081-f2ad-9e0f-9d89.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2026-02-04 05:21:45 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-04 05:21:48 +0100 | DragonMaus | (~DragonMau@user/dragonmaus) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-02-04 05:21:52 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@71.84.33.135) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 05:22:03 +0100 | DragonMaus | (~DragonMau@user/dragonmaus) DragonMaus |
| 2026-02-04 05:27:01 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
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| 2026-02-04 05:29:32 +0100 | DragonMaus | (~DragonMau@user/dragonmaus) DragonMaus |
| 2026-02-04 05:37:33 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2026-02-04 05:53:20 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2026-02-04 06:11:21 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2026-02-04 06:27:08 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-04 06:31:17 +0100 | jle` | (~jle`@23.240.67.73) (Quit: WeeChat 4.8.1) |
| 2026-02-04 06:31:19 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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| 2026-02-04 08:23:37 +0100 | <gentauro> | tomsmeding: got it. Thx for explanation |
| 2026-02-04 08:23:48 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-04 08:24:31 +0100 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.217) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 08:25:55 +0100 | <[exa]> | is there some way to get an operation that would take a list (or so) of MVars and wait until any of them can be taken? Or do I generally have to do this with another synchronization tool (Chan)? |
| 2026-02-04 08:26:56 +0100 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.218) |
| 2026-02-04 08:28:22 +0100 | ar3ph | (~ar3ph@user/ar3ph) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)) |
| 2026-02-04 08:28:33 +0100 | ar3ph | (~ar3ph@user/ar3ph) ar3ph |
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| 2026-02-04 08:30:38 +0100 | <gentauro> | I've recently been following this persons task on removing F# from the boundries of the .NET platform to become trully native on bare metal: https://speakez.tech/blog/ |
| 2026-02-04 08:30:55 +0100 | <gentauro> | the blog post are really enjoyable to read |
| 2026-02-04 08:31:04 +0100 | gentauro | And I'm not the guy xD |
| 2026-02-04 08:31:38 +0100 | <gentauro> | however, as I understand it, it's a single person doing all the work (perhaps with the help of AI-tools?) |
| 2026-02-04 08:32:38 +0100 | <Leary> | [exa]: In principle you can `race` `takeMVar` across the list, but I suggest you just use `TMVar`s instead. |
| 2026-02-04 08:34:22 +0100 | <[exa]> | Leary: oh TMVars, that would work too |
| 2026-02-04 08:35:06 +0100 | emmanuelux | (~em@user/emmanuelux) emmanuelux |
| 2026-02-04 08:35:37 +0100 | <[exa]> | I'm currently thinking about just going with TChan, will see |
| 2026-02-04 08:36:56 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@2001:708:150:10::9d7e) fp |
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| 2026-02-04 08:38:24 +0100 | yuuta | (~YuutaW@infornography.yta.moe) YuutaW |
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| 2026-02-04 08:43:08 +0100 | <[exa]> | gentauro: the lookings of the blog don't spawn much confidence indeed |
| 2026-02-04 08:43:38 +0100 | emmanuelux | (~em@user/emmanuelux) emmanuelux |
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| 2026-02-04 08:47:26 +0100 | monochrom | (trebla@216.138.220.146) (Quit: ZNC 1.9.1+deb2build5 - https://znc.in) |
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| 2026-02-04 08:57:47 +0100 | Enrico63 | (~Enrico63@148.252.128.12) Enrico63 |
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| 2026-02-04 09:11:24 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-02-04 09:13:43 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 09:16:19 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
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| 2026-02-04 09:19:16 +0100 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937 |
| 2026-02-04 09:20:39 +0100 | <[exa]> | hm I guess better ask about the original problem.. I have a few concurrent helpers for Streaming, and I want to have a parallel unfolding function. Example here: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/y8PLkSYh -- mapMForkNIO works, unfoldStream works, and I'd love to them combined, but I can't see a good data structure that would hold the temporary data for it together. Having a list queue there doesn't |
| 2026-02-04 09:20:41 +0100 | <[exa]> | sound very good to me (I'll have to scan it quite often to find new work items, so it might get quite slow) |
| 2026-02-04 09:21:52 +0100 | <[exa]> | (duck effect: I realized I might just place a limit on the queue size instead of the thread count, which would probably also limit the possible amount of stupid work done over the queue) |
| 2026-02-04 09:22:05 +0100 | <[exa]> | anyway any ideas welcome. :D |
| 2026-02-04 09:22:31 +0100 | _JusSx_ | (~jussx@78.210.76.107) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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| 2026-02-04 10:32:04 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@wireless-86-50-140-153.open.aalto.fi) fp |
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| 2026-02-04 10:37:02 +0100 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) user363627 |
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| 2026-02-04 10:59:39 +0100 | AlexNoo_ | (~AlexNoo@85.174.181.199) |
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| 2026-02-04 11:14:25 +0100 | housemate | (~housemate@202.7.248.67) (Quit: https://ineedsomeacidtocalmmedown.space/) |
| 2026-02-04 11:21:32 +0100 | <gentauro> | [exa]: if you search for "// F* specification for verified memory operation" it seems that he also will add somekind of `liquid F#/F*` support? https://speakez.tech/blog/doubling-down/ |
| 2026-02-04 11:22:05 +0100 | <gentauro> | I mean, all the things that he mentions are "extremely hard" to do on its own. |
| 2026-02-04 11:25:29 +0100 | <[exa]> | gentauro: given the amount of "complete" code they have on githubs I'd say this might be a case for poc||gtfo |
| 2026-02-04 11:31:43 +0100 | qqq | (~qqq@185.54.21.178) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 11:32:04 +0100 | AlexNoo_ | AlexNoo |
| 2026-02-04 11:37:18 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal |
| 2026-02-04 11:38:57 +0100 | trickard_ | trickard |
| 2026-02-04 11:39:50 +0100 | qqq | (~qqq@185.54.21.178) |
| 2026-02-04 11:43:43 +0100 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2026-02-04 11:44:01 +0100 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) siracusa |
| 2026-02-04 11:54:06 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::1370) fp |
| 2026-02-04 11:55:14 +0100 | <gentauro> | [exa]: could be. However, I would love to see F# removing all dependencies to MS, a bit like Java did with the openJDK |
| 2026-02-04 11:59:26 +0100 | <gentauro> | … and Oracle :) |
| 2026-02-04 12:06:26 +0100 | <[exa]> | doesn't it kinda become haskell by then? |
| 2026-02-04 12:08:34 +0100 | <[exa]> | (or ocaml, depending on which direction you take) |
| 2026-02-04 12:11:40 +0100 | <gentauro> | [exa]: but both Haskell and OCaml have garbage collectors. They seem to go the `C/C++/Rust` way -> https://speakez.tech/blog/gaining-closure/ |
| 2026-02-04 12:12:44 +0100 | <gentauro> | like I say, they are so many "complex and hard" topics that I really would like this to succeed, just to see the outcome :o |
| 2026-02-04 12:12:55 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 12:13:25 +0100 | gentauro | anyway, back to "old-school" coding |
| 2026-02-04 12:14:56 +0100 | <[exa]> | gentauro: I was trying to do similar some 10 years ago, the outcome is that converting any existing functional programming system to this behavior is either impossible or basically you end up with something like the compiled schemes or Rust |
| 2026-02-04 12:16:16 +0100 | <[exa]> | there was also quite a bit of research on related things back in 90s, maybe some stuff moved but my main takeaway was that it's not practical |
| 2026-02-04 12:17:42 +0100 | <mesaoptimizer> | what is the current recommended setup for emacs with haskell? if you have a robust configuration, please link it to me. |
| 2026-02-04 12:18:30 +0100 | <mesaoptimizer> | I think `haskell-mode` is unable to do stuff like open a `cabal repl` on a file that has an in-built set of dependencies declared |
| 2026-02-04 12:20:22 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> thats more of a cabal problem i seem to recal |
| 2026-02-04 12:22:52 +0100 | [exa] | hides behind his zero lines of vim config |
| 2026-02-04 12:30:44 +0100 | <gentauro> | mesaoptimizer: my current setup doesn't work as expected, so I just "go with it" (no intellisense) xD |
| 2026-02-04 12:31:07 +0100 | <gentauro> | I'm going to give a talk in March. I should probably begin to look into how to solve it |
| 2026-02-04 12:31:10 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::1370) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 12:31:16 +0100 | <gentauro> | but you know, we are "lazy" after all xD |
| 2026-02-04 12:31:20 +0100 | fp1 | (~Thunderbi@2001:708:150:10::9d7e) fp |
| 2026-02-04 12:31:59 +0100 | <gentauro> | [exa]: yeah, it sounds to good to be true. But I like how they go to academia to get knowledge. |
| 2026-02-04 12:32:31 +0100 | <gentauro> | but, that sometimes come with the downside of not being "industry friendly" as you mention |
| 2026-02-04 12:33:32 +0100 | <[exa]> | wait how do they get knowledge from academia? (I probably missed that part, looks super industrial to me tbh) |
| 2026-02-04 12:34:30 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@130.233.70.158) fp |
| 2026-02-04 12:34:59 +0100 | fp1 | (~Thunderbi@2001:708:150:10::9d7e) (Client Quit) |
| 2026-02-04 12:36:48 +0100 | <gentauro> | [exa]: MLKit comes from academia -> https://www.itu.dk/research/mlkit (and the reserach page doesn't even work, so yeah, 100% academia xD) |
| 2026-02-04 12:37:29 +0100 | <gentauro> | The F* "thingy" is a 100% copied from Liquid Haskell -> https://software.imdea.org/careers/2022-02-intern-liquid/ |
| 2026-02-04 12:38:41 +0100 | <gentauro> | so this core components are mental. Then they are also opting for creating all the environment tools https://speakez.tech/blog/leveling-up-with-lattice/ |
| 2026-02-04 12:38:46 +0100 | <gentauro> | seems too much |
| 2026-02-04 12:41:33 +0100 | <[exa]> | seems a bit too much like the "works by MAGIC!!!!" 100% better FP compiler that we had here like 1 year ago (what was the name btw) |
| 2026-02-04 12:41:34 +0100 | _JusSx_ | (~jussx@78.210.76.107) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 12:41:41 +0100 | <[exa]> | with extra LLM flavor on top |
| 2026-02-04 12:42:05 +0100 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-61-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2026-02-04 12:42:18 +0100 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-61-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2026-02-04 12:43:29 +0100 | _JusSx_ | (~jussx@37.161.247.165) |
| 2026-02-04 12:44:17 +0100 | <gentauro> | the one that spawned from Elm? |
| 2026-02-04 12:44:59 +0100 | <gentauro> | https://www.roc-lang.org/examples/ElmWebApp/README <- this one? |
| 2026-02-04 12:45:23 +0100 | <gentauro> | not to confuse with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocq (rename of Coq) |
| 2026-02-04 12:46:05 +0100 | <gentauro> | https://www.roc-lang.org/ <- this link instead |
| 2026-02-04 12:46:10 +0100 | <mesaoptimizer> | gentauro: MLton and Poly/ML are rock solid though |
| 2026-02-04 12:46:16 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | gentauro: do you mean this? https://elsman.com/mlkit/ |
| 2026-02-04 12:46:25 +0100 | <mesaoptimizer> | I think the MLkit links are broken but IIRC they still have a github |
| 2026-02-04 12:46:44 +0100 | <mesaoptimizer> | tomsmeding: yes. https://github.com/melsman/mlkit |
| 2026-02-04 12:47:20 +0100 | <[exa]> | gentauro: nah it was some weirder one, unrelated to elm, it claimed it has waaaaaay better evaluation method than stg |
| 2026-02-04 12:47:54 +0100 | <gentauro> | xD |
| 2026-02-04 12:48:03 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | I know which you mean but names |
| 2026-02-04 12:48:12 +0100 | <gentauro> | tomsmeding: yes |
| 2026-02-04 12:48:27 +0100 | <[exa]> | yes |
| 2026-02-04 12:48:37 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | lol |
| 2026-02-04 12:48:39 +0100 | trickard_ | trickard |
| 2026-02-04 12:48:52 +0100 | <[exa]> | kinda looks like it disappeared from the internets, I'd say that confirms a hypothesis |
| 2026-02-04 12:48:58 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | Formality by Maia Victor |
| 2026-02-04 12:49:00 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | memory worked |
| 2026-02-04 12:49:44 +0100 | <gentauro> | «Mads Tofte (Main architect of adding region support to the MLKit, co-developer of MLKit version 1)» |
| 2026-02-04 12:49:53 +0100 | <gentauro> | I know him :) |
| 2026-02-04 12:50:11 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | oh right it was renamed, I guess HVM now |
| 2026-02-04 12:51:07 +0100 | <gentauro> | Victor Maia is the guy doing crazy lambda calculus right? |
| 2026-02-04 12:51:25 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | yeah graph reduction evaluation strategies for asymptotic performance improvements of standard evaluation |
| 2026-02-04 12:51:31 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | *over |
| 2026-02-04 12:52:16 +0100 | <gentauro> | tomsmeding: yeah, that's who I'm thinking of |
| 2026-02-04 12:52:49 +0100 | <[exa]> | but where's the explanation with the MAGIC gif |
| 2026-02-04 12:52:58 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | I dunno |
| 2026-02-04 12:53:15 +0100 | qqq | (~qqq@185.54.21.178) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 12:53:32 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | but this does fancy evaluation strategies + had a hype cycle a few years back, so fits your description |
| 2026-02-04 12:53:41 +0100 | <mesaoptimizer> | https://xcancel.com/VictorTaelin/ do you mean this guy? |
| 2026-02-04 12:53:48 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal |
| 2026-02-04 12:53:56 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | name matches, in any case |
| 2026-02-04 12:53:58 +0100 | <mesaoptimizer> | he's gotten very distracted rewriting his interaction nets compiler |
| 2026-02-04 12:54:11 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | well interaction nets is what it was all about anyway from the start |
| 2026-02-04 12:54:12 +0100 | <mesaoptimizer> | went from Haskell to Rust to C IIRC |
| 2026-02-04 13:04:48 +0100 | comerijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
| 2026-02-04 13:06:08 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 13:06:20 +0100 | <gentauro> | tomsmeding: it's the same person -> https://github.com/maiavictor ( |
| 2026-02-04 13:06:25 +0100 | <gentauro> | Account renamed to VictorTaelin.) |
| 2026-02-04 13:07:02 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | yeah |
| 2026-02-04 13:13:35 +0100 | Pozyomka | (~pyon@user/pyon) (Quit: brb) |
| 2026-02-04 13:15:55 +0100 | Pozyomka | (~pyon@user/pyon) pyon |
| 2026-02-04 13:16:05 +0100 | lucabtz | (~lucabtz@user/lucabtz) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 13:20:52 +0100 | <[exa]> | I love how github gists serve as primary research communication vessel there |
| 2026-02-04 13:25:32 +0100 | wbrawner | (~wbrawner@129.146.105.153) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-02-04 13:25:33 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | I've seen worse |
| 2026-02-04 13:25:39 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | at least gists have a unique ID |
| 2026-02-04 13:26:41 +0100 | <int-e> | Better than Discord. |
| 2026-02-04 13:26:58 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | ^ |
| 2026-02-04 13:27:14 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | right, gists also have the obvious (?) advantage of being public |
| 2026-02-04 13:28:59 +0100 | <[exa]> | int-e: <3 <3 <3 publishing on a non-public chat <3 <3 <3 never thought about the advantages |
| 2026-02-04 13:31:51 +0100 | wbrawner | (~wbrawner@129.146.105.153) wbrawner |
| 2026-02-04 13:32:32 +0100 | <int-e> | [exa]: you can always cits such things as "personal communcation" :P |
| 2026-02-04 13:32:34 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | [exa]: also gists have public edit history |
| 2026-02-04 13:32:42 +0100 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod |
| 2026-02-04 13:32:46 +0100 | tomsmeding | now wonders if you can force-push to gists |
| 2026-02-04 13:33:53 +0100 | lucabtz | (~lucabtz@user/lucabtz) lucabtz |
| 2026-02-04 13:34:20 +0100 | <opqdonut> | I'm pretty sure I've done it |
| 2026-02-04 13:37:24 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Yes you can, github gists are just a repository with a weird interface |
| 2026-02-04 13:37:25 +0100 | lucabtz | (~lucabtz@user/lucabtz) (Client Quit) |
| 2026-02-04 13:37:27 +0100 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect |
| 2026-02-04 13:37:35 +0100 | lucabtz | (~lucabtz@user/lucabtz) lucabtz |
| 2026-02-04 13:37:38 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> And a restriction on having directories which is annoying |
| 2026-02-04 13:38:18 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | [exa]: here, the first weakness over arxiv spotted |
| 2026-02-04 13:38:30 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | /s |
| 2026-02-04 13:44:44 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 13:45:50 +0100 | <int-e> | [exa]: there's also this 4chan story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superpermutation#Lower_bounds,_or_the_Haruhi_problem |
| 2026-02-04 13:48:53 +0100 | <[exa]> | lovely |
| 2026-02-04 13:48:59 +0100 | <mesaoptimizer> | btw, did the FP complete people create Stack, and then move on to Rust? |
| 2026-02-04 13:49:13 +0100 | <[exa]> | (I'm busy starting Lecture Gists in Computer Science) |
| 2026-02-04 13:50:43 +0100 | <int-e> | [exa]: sorry I can't pay attention unless it's a 30 second performative dance in 9:16 format |
| 2026-02-04 13:54:52 +0100 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@85.174.181.199) (Quit: ;-) |
| 2026-02-04 13:56:37 +0100 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0 |
| 2026-02-04 13:56:46 +0100 | AlexNoo | (~AlexNoo@85.174.181.199) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2026-02-04 13:56:57 +0100 | qqq | (~qqq@185.54.21.178) |
| 2026-02-04 13:58:19 +0100 | <gentauro> | mesaoptimizer: yeah, it seems like Snoyman did that :( |
| 2026-02-04 13:59:41 +0100 | <gentauro> | https://www.snoyman.com/ -> «With a deep passion for Rust and functional programming, …» |
| 2026-02-04 13:59:52 +0100 | gentauro | Rust before FP :'( |
| 2026-02-04 14:00:56 +0100 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 14:04:04 +0100 | mange | (~mange@user/mange) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 14:15:39 +0100 | comerijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 14:16:53 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
| 2026-02-04 14:18:29 +0100 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:5e48:b86:53c8:1c87) |
| 2026-02-04 14:20:37 +0100 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@85.174.181.199) |
| 2026-02-04 14:22:22 +0100 | AlexNoo | (~AlexNoo@85.174.181.199) |
| 2026-02-04 14:23:09 +0100 | AlexNoo_ | (~AlexNoo@85.174.181.199) |
| 2026-02-04 14:23:25 +0100 | qqq | (~qqq@185.54.21.178) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 14:23:53 +0100 | AlexNoo__ | (~AlexNoo@85.174.181.199) |
| 2026-02-04 14:24:55 +0100 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@85.174.181.199) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 14:26:46 +0100 | AlexNoo | (~AlexNoo@85.174.181.199) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 14:26:54 +0100 | zenstoic | (uid461840@id-461840.hampstead.irccloud.com) zenstoic |
| 2026-02-04 14:27:40 +0100 | AlexNoo_ | (~AlexNoo@85.174.181.199) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 14:28:07 +0100 | AlexNoo__ | (~AlexNoo@85.174.181.199) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 14:28:52 +0100 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0 |
| 2026-02-04 14:29:09 +0100 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@85.174.181.199) |
| 2026-02-04 14:29:23 +0100 | Alex_delenda_est | (~al_test@85.174.181.199) |
| 2026-02-04 14:31:45 +0100 | AlexNoo | (~AlexNoo@85.174.181.199) |
| 2026-02-04 14:32:43 +0100 | emaczen | (~user@user/emaczen) emaczen |
| 2026-02-04 14:37:49 +0100 | mjacob | (~mjacob@adrastea.uberspace.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 14:42:01 +0100 | <mesaoptimizer> | wonder why |
| 2026-02-04 14:42:30 +0100 | <mesaoptimizer> | perhaps their target customer base changed |
| 2026-02-04 14:44:33 +0100 | <gentauro> | mesaoptimizer: I recall that Snoyman is educated in Actuarial sciences. Perhaps Rust is a better tool for solving those kind of problems? |
| 2026-02-04 14:54:57 +0100 | infinity0 | (~infinity0@pwned.gg) infinity0 |
| 2026-02-04 14:56:00 +0100 | poscat0x04 | (~poscat@user/poscat) poscat |
| 2026-02-04 14:57:58 +0100 | poscat | (~poscat@user/poscat) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 15:01:31 +0100 | infinity0 | (~infinity0@pwned.gg) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 15:02:07 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 15:03:48 +0100 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) toonn |
| 2026-02-04 15:04:30 +0100 | akegalj | (~akegalj@141-136-251-118.dsl.iskon.hr) akegalj |
| 2026-02-04 15:06:43 +0100 | Enrico63 | (~Enrico63@148.252.128.12) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 15:07:28 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn |
| 2026-02-04 15:08:33 +0100 | tremon | (~tremon@83.80.159.219) tremon |
| 2026-02-04 15:09:00 +0100 | lucabtz | (~lucabtz@user/lucabtz) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2026-02-04 15:09:10 +0100 | lucabtz | (~lucabtz@user/lucabtz) lucabtz |
| 2026-02-04 15:13:02 +0100 | wickedjargon | (~user@2605:8d80:5431:33ac:d84d:2363:57fe:412) wickedjargon |
| 2026-02-04 15:13:29 +0100 | <mesaoptimizer> | well, I haven't tried Rust yet, but I do understand that it has a surprising number of ML-family features I appreciate, such as ADTs and exhaustive pattern matching |
| 2026-02-04 15:21:02 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> and it lacks a substantial amount of features that make using it a pain :P |
| 2026-02-04 15:21:34 +0100 | infinity0 | (~infinity0@pwned.gg) infinity0 |
| 2026-02-04 15:23:39 +0100 | <lucabtz> | magic_rb what features would you like to see in rust? |
| 2026-02-04 15:23:47 +0100 | <merijn> | It's more like "Rust pays a (fairly heavy) price, to attain something hard to achieve" (i.e. memory safety without GC) |
| 2026-02-04 15:24:03 +0100 | <merijn> | So Rust is supercool. IFF you cannot afford/accept a GC |
| 2026-02-04 15:24:18 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> lucabtz: monads, more type magic, GC |
| 2026-02-04 15:24:38 +0100 | <merijn> | Now, personally I think the vast majority of code is perfectly fine with a GC. In which case you pay the price for nothing |
| 2026-02-04 15:24:45 +0100 | <lucabtz> | it kinda has do notation, but only for Option and Result |
| 2026-02-04 15:25:03 +0100 | <merijn> | If you can afford GC then something like Haskell, Scala, any ML will give you essentially all the stuff you want |
| 2026-02-04 15:25:03 +0100 | <lucabtz> | and for future |
| 2026-02-04 15:25:07 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> in 99% of cases i dont give a rats ass about not having a GC and having to fight the borrow checker or sprinkle Arc<> absolutely everywhere is not what i want to be doing |
| 2026-02-04 15:25:23 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> not having actual do notation with Monads is to me a deal breaker |
| 2026-02-04 15:25:43 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> things get so much more awkward with those imo |
| 2026-02-04 15:25:58 +0100 | <lucabtz> | yeah they missed a chance with do notation maybe |
| 2026-02-04 15:29:12 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> «what features would you like to see in rust» I want `pub fn append_byte<const N: usize>(array: [u8; N], b: u8) -> [u8; N + 1]` to compile |
| 2026-02-04 15:29:39 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> And monad readers |
| 2026-02-04 15:29:50 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> and a GC |
| 2026-02-04 15:29:57 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> just, give me haskell thank you very much |
| 2026-02-04 15:30:11 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I'm partial to the RIO approach of having only one monad, but you parameterize the context you read from it |
| 2026-02-04 15:30:22 +0100 | Enrico63 | (~Enrico63@148.252.128.12) Enrico63 |
| 2026-02-04 15:30:29 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> If this were in rust, some problems of async runtimes would be removed |
| 2026-02-04 15:30:41 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> honestly the only reason i may personally choose rust over haskell is due to the library ecosystem. for embedded i would try microhs, though idk how well that would work |
| 2026-02-04 15:31:06 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> «just, give me haskell thank you very much» yeh. Except I currently have to write a thing without gc or a large runtime at all |
| 2026-02-04 15:31:12 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> :( |
| 2026-02-04 15:31:27 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Hm, actually microhs might fit there, need to evaluate |
| 2026-02-04 15:32:17 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Although, performance.. |
| 2026-02-04 15:32:26 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> microhs still does gc no? |
| 2026-02-04 15:32:33 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> or does it do refcounting |
| 2026-02-04 15:33:18 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I think it's gc. I was rather talking about not having a big runtime, the environment is rather memory constrained |
| 2026-02-04 15:33:26 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> «I have a [Word8] that I would like to convert to a Word32 in big endian. How can I do that?» - type shit that I have to deal with haskell |
| 2026-02-04 15:33:43 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> *with in haskell |
| 2026-02-04 15:38:20 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> my condolences |
| 2026-02-04 15:38:32 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> i wrote a fat32 filesystem driver in haskell for my thesis, it was an experience |
| 2026-02-04 15:39:55 +0100 | <merijn> | I mean, that's kinda easy, just turn into ByteString and use attoparsec and/or binary :p |
| 2026-02-04 15:49:04 +0100 | noctux | (~noctux@user/noctux) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 15:49:05 +0100 | <akegalj> | magic_rb: found this https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/beginners/2010-October/005571.html |
| 2026-02-04 15:54:54 +0100 | <gentauro> | Morj: I noticed myself that Rust needs to know (statically) the size of arrays. Don't you end up by using a fixed buffer size and then just iterate? |
| 2026-02-04 15:55:35 +0100 | <gentauro> | And you end up padding/populating non-used array items with some value. |
| 2026-02-04 15:55:57 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> In rust you can have a choice between statically and dynamically known sizes, roughly [u8; N] and Box<[u8]> |
| 2026-02-04 15:56:33 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I wanted to write this function because I have arrays of different sizes (for XOF seeding), and the algorithm wants to append one or two bytes to the seeds sometimes |
| 2026-02-04 15:57:19 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> If it were just Box<[u8]>, this could be achieved very simply. If it were [u8; 32] to append a byte and get [u8; 33] - also very simple. But I wanted to write one function for several N sizes |
| 2026-02-04 15:59:58 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I could create an array of size 33 padded with zeroes, true, but it's even less convenient to use - there is no simple conversion from size 33 to size 32 |
| 2026-02-04 16:00:40 +0100 | <dutchie> | why can I never remember which way the numbers go in fixity declarations |
| 2026-02-04 16:01:30 +0100 | <dutchie> | i always have to :i $ in ghci to see whether low number is tight binding or not |
| 2026-02-04 16:01:55 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I wanted to suggest memorizing that ($) is zero and using that as a mnemonic =) |
| 2026-02-04 16:04:28 +0100 | <gentauro> | Morj: Got it |
| 2026-02-04 16:06:59 +0100 | noctux | (~noctux@user/noctux) noctux |
| 2026-02-04 16:09:17 +0100 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-61-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2026-02-04 16:09:31 +0100 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-61-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2026-02-04 16:09:57 +0100 | <mesaoptimizer> | microhs + mcabal cannot yet install / build most hackage packages |
| 2026-02-04 16:10:23 +0100 | <mesaoptimizer> | IIRC it couldn't build aeson for example, because that relied on ghc-prim |
| 2026-02-04 16:10:35 +0100 | <mesaoptimizer> | any package that depends on ghc-prim cannot be installed via mcabal |
| 2026-02-04 16:10:50 +0100 | <mesaoptimizer> | also any package that involves networking seems to throw an error |
| 2026-02-04 16:17:34 +0100 | tydes | (~tydes@user/ttydes) ttydes |
| 2026-02-04 16:19:54 +0100 | petrichor | (~jez@user/petrichor) (Quit: ZNC 1.10.1 - https://znc.in) |
| 2026-02-04 16:24:24 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> But can I build using ghc with mcabal? |
| 2026-02-04 16:25:13 +0100 | Inline | (~User@2a02:908:1246:26e0:e780:60f2:d5f3:ea13) (Quit: KVIrc 5.2.6 Quasar http://www.kvirc.net/) |
| 2026-02-04 16:30:59 +0100 | <mesaoptimizer> | you mean the `--ghc` switch? yeah I have troubles with using cabal for effectively anything. If you have a working cabal setup for your GHC then I guess that works. I don't think that strategy is tenable for someone who wants to use only microhs + mcabal though |
| 2026-02-04 16:31:15 +0100 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 16:31:21 +0100 | <mesaoptimizer> | also I'm unsure what happens when you use the `--ghc` switch with mcabal |
| 2026-02-04 16:32:51 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I meant building packages using ghc as the compiler and mcabal as the build system (mcabal calling ghc instead of microhs) |
| 2026-02-04 16:33:15 +0100 | wickedjargon | (~user@2605:8d80:5431:33ac:d84d:2363:57fe:412) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-02-04 16:33:33 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@130.233.70.158) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 16:33:51 +0100 | <mesaoptimizer> | I see. I think that is what the switch that I recall may have been doing. |
| 2026-02-04 16:34:15 +0100 | mesaoptimizer | sighs and reinstalls microhs again to double check |
| 2026-02-04 16:34:38 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Oh cool. I should install and try it myself (= |
| 2026-02-04 16:35:08 +0100 | <mesaoptimizer> | its lovely to have a very tiny haskell implementation, to be honest |
| 2026-02-04 16:35:29 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> The worst part is that I get an urge to write one myself too |
| 2026-02-04 16:35:34 +0100 | <mesaoptimizer> | the obvious downside is that almost the entire hackage system is inaccessible |
| 2026-02-04 16:36:12 +0100 | <mesaoptimizer> | I think it is a fun idea :) |
| 2026-02-04 16:36:31 +0100 | <mesaoptimizer> | I've thought about a call-by-push-value lambda calculus compiler for haskell |
| 2026-02-04 16:48:01 +0100 | Enrico63 | (~Enrico63@148.252.128.12) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2026-02-04 16:49:12 +0100 | lucabtz | (~lucabtz@user/lucabtz) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 2026-02-04 16:53:44 +0100 | trickard_ | trickard |
| 2026-02-04 16:56:31 +0100 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-02-04 17:00:13 +0100 | Square | (~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 17:01:21 +0100 | edwardk | awakens from his long slumber. |
| 2026-02-04 17:01:53 +0100 | edwardk | (sid47016@id-47016.ilkley.irccloud.com) (Changing host) |
| 2026-02-04 17:01:53 +0100 | edwardk | (sid47016@haskell/developer/edwardk) edwardk |
| 2026-02-04 17:04:32 +0100 | Googulator61 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-216f-0081-f2ad-9e0f-9d89.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2026-02-04 17:04:48 +0100 | Googulator61 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-216f-0081-f2ad-9e0f-9d89.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2026-02-04 17:07:59 +0100 | _JusSx_ | (~jussx@37.161.247.165) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 17:08:32 +0100 | <merijn> | edwardk: Like an eldritch horror ready to melt the minds of man? |
| 2026-02-04 17:11:33 +0100 | petrichor | (~jez@user/petrichor) petrichor |
| 2026-02-04 17:11:42 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | magic_rb: you can't suffice with refcounting for haskell, you get cycles all over the place that you have to collect with some kind of tracing GC |
| 2026-02-04 17:12:10 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | (python is known for its refcounting system but it has a tracing GC too that runs occasionally, because of cycles) |
| 2026-02-04 17:21:58 +0100 | Enrico63 | (~Enrico63@148.252.128.12) Enrico63 |
| 2026-02-04 17:29:06 +0100 | Googulator61 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-216f-0081-f2ad-9e0f-9d89.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2026-02-04 17:29:10 +0100 | Googulator27 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-216f-0081-f2ad-9e0f-9d89.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2026-02-04 17:32:43 +0100 | <edwardk> | merijn: precisely |
| 2026-02-04 17:33:51 +0100 | Enrico63 | (~Enrico63@148.252.128.12) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2026-02-04 17:33:55 +0100 | ezzieyguywuf | (~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2026-02-04 17:34:15 +0100 | ezzieyguywuf | (~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf) ezzieyguywuf |
| 2026-02-04 17:39:43 +0100 | bggd_ | (~bgg@2a01:e0a:fd5:f510:ffc1:9b0f:82de:9e53) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-02-04 17:40:27 +0100 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: Additionally that just doesn't jive well with the garbage profile of most haskell programs |
| 2026-02-04 17:40:46 +0100 | <merijn> | Refcounting is great when you have few mostly long lived big things |
| 2026-02-04 17:40:53 +0100 | <merijn> | Not for "bazillions of short-lived tiny things" |
| 2026-02-04 17:52:03 +0100 | <gentauro> | greetings edwardk |
| 2026-02-04 17:53:22 +0100 | gentauro | lucky enough to have experienced edwardk coding-live at Poznan at a river while everybody else were partying <3 |
| 2026-02-04 17:53:47 +0100 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Quit: sord937) |
| 2026-02-04 17:57:58 +0100 | <edwardk> | gentauro: =) |
| 2026-02-04 17:58:25 +0100 | <edwardk> | Most of my coding lately has been in systemverilog |
| 2026-02-04 17:58:28 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 17:58:40 +0100 | <edwardk> | That said, we are starting to use Haskell again at Positron! |
| 2026-02-04 18:00:08 +0100 | <edwardk> | I think that was an inevitable consequence of hiring johnw and bgamari. |
| 2026-02-04 18:08:47 +0100 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e700e57835d41376842fa308.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk |
| 2026-02-04 18:11:51 +0100 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Quit: Leaving...) |
| 2026-02-04 18:13:11 +0100 | akegalj | (~akegalj@141-136-251-118.dsl.iskon.hr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-02-04 18:14:47 +0100 | <gentauro> | I recall bgamari from working on GHC paid by MS right? (Simon Marlow mentioned this) |
| 2026-02-04 18:15:34 +0100 | tzh | (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 2026-02-04 18:16:58 +0100 | <geekosaur> | dunno about that but more recently he was working for Well-Typed which I think took on ghc after MSR dropped it? |
| 2026-02-04 18:19:55 +0100 | <gentauro> | geekosaur: I guess the wording should have been "sponsored" by MS. |
| 2026-02-04 18:20:12 +0100 | <gentauro> | I guess also since Marlow left FB/Meta, they dropped Haskell right? |
| 2026-02-04 18:21:16 +0100 | Googulator27 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-216f-0081-f2ad-9e0f-9d89.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2026-02-04 18:21:24 +0100 | Googulator27 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-216f-0081-f2ad-9e0f-9d89.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2026-02-04 18:24:41 +0100 | <edwardk> | gentauro, geekosaur: correct on both accounts |
| 2026-02-04 18:25:02 +0100 | <edwardk> | re fb/meta not sure if _all_ haskell inside meta is gone, but a lot of it is |
| 2026-02-04 18:25:11 +0100 | jmcantrell_ | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell |
| 2026-02-04 18:25:17 +0100 | jmcantrell_ | jmcantrell |
| 2026-02-04 18:29:40 +0100 | <gentauro> | edwardk: :'( |
| 2026-02-04 18:30:45 +0100 | <gentauro> | and when Mathieu Boespflug sold Tweag, both Haskell and OCaml was "somehow" abandoned :'( |
| 2026-02-04 18:30:55 +0100 | <gentauro> | not good time for FP tbh :-\ |
| 2026-02-04 18:31:35 +0100 | gentauro | what if we rename the awesome tools to: hAIskell and ocAIml xD |
| 2026-02-04 18:31:43 +0100 | mniip | (mniip@libera/staff-emeritus/mniip) (Ping timeout: 612 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 18:31:48 +0100 | gentauro | we would probably down in funding xD |
| 2026-02-04 18:33:48 +0100 | <gentauro> | down = drown |
| 2026-02-04 18:36:48 +0100 | mniip | (mniip@libera/staff-emeritus/mniip) mniip |
| 2026-02-04 18:46:31 +0100 | <int-e> | gentAIuro: Be caireful whait you wish for. |
| 2026-02-04 18:49:11 +0100 | <gentauro> | AInt-e: roger that |
| 2026-02-04 18:54:53 +0100 | wickedjargon | (~user@24.83.46.194) wickedjargon |
| 2026-02-04 18:57:35 +0100 | ft | (~ft@p508db4c0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) ft |
| 2026-02-04 18:59:24 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2026-02-04 19:02:56 +0100 | gabiruh | (~gabiruh@vps19177.publiccloud.com.br) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2026-02-04 19:03:25 +0100 | <apache> | tomsmeding: thanks for dealing with that :) |
| 2026-02-04 19:03:38 +0100 | <apache> | the lycurgus situation I mean |
| 2026-02-04 19:03:44 +0100 | gabiruh | (~gabiruh@vps19177.publiccloud.com.br) gabiruh |
| 2026-02-04 19:04:02 +0100 | <apache> | gentauro: you don't need to rename ocaML |
| 2026-02-04 19:04:03 +0100 | <edwardk> | gentauro: i mean, positron is still hiring haskell folks |
| 2026-02-04 19:04:25 +0100 | <apache> | haskeLLM - fixed |
| 2026-02-04 19:04:54 +0100 | <edwardk> | haskLLM has a nice ring to it |
| 2026-02-04 19:13:45 +0100 | divlamir | (~divlamir@user/divlamir) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2026-02-04 19:14:00 +0100 | divlamir | (~divlamir@user/divlamir) divlamir |
| 2026-02-04 19:14:08 +0100 | wickedjargon | (~user@24.83.46.194) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-02-04 19:16:58 +0100 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-61-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2026-02-04 19:17:11 +0100 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-61-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2026-02-04 19:27:23 +0100 | <gentauro> | edwardk: that's pretty nice :) |
| 2026-02-04 19:28:24 +0100 | <gentauro> | and I'm guessing Galois is also still hiring haskells right? |
| 2026-02-04 19:30:10 +0100 | <edwardk> | i haven't checked galois' pulse in a while. i'd presume so |
| 2026-02-04 19:30:40 +0100 | <edwardk> | topos institute is working with aria on some category theory ish stuff, but its all over in rust these days |
| 2026-02-04 19:31:19 +0100 | <gentauro> | iirc teh LEAN project also hired a few prominent haskellers |
| 2026-02-04 19:32:37 +0100 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2026-02-04 19:37:20 +0100 | kilolympus | (~kilolympu@vmi1102682.contaboserver.net) kilolympus |
| 2026-02-04 19:43:54 +0100 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) (Remote host closed the connection) |