2025/02/18

2025-02-18 00:01:27 +0100 <tomsmeding> only downside: this requires mtl, you can't pull this trick with transformers alone
2025-02-18 00:01:37 +0100 <tomsmeding> and I've been avoiding mtl classes for a while and it suits me
2025-02-18 00:06:11 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-02-18 00:07:33 +0100__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2025-02-18 00:09:58 +0100 <Leary> Whether I'm using mtl or just transformers, I regularly newtype-expand my monad transformers. There's a real advantage to it: if the monad you're transforming is known, you obtain better roles!
2025-02-18 00:12:53 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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2025-02-18 01:27:28 +0100j1n37-(~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37
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2025-02-18 01:40:04 +0100Inst(~Inst@user/Inst) Inst
2025-02-18 01:40:11 +0100 <Inst> I saw the transcript.
2025-02-18 01:40:46 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-02-18 01:41:13 +0100 <Inst> Ugh, first time on OSX, need to figure out how to install Haskell toolchain (actually I want Rust, because it'll be interesting to set up a multi-AI query bot to instantly verify fake news)
2025-02-18 01:41:37 +0100 <Inst> Apparently Xiaohongshu (Rednote) is infested with foreign bots
2025-02-18 01:43:57 +0100 <EvanR> I use a few ways to install haskell on OSX but ghcup would be what I would use now
2025-02-18 01:44:04 +0100 <EvanR> if my macbook didn't die
2025-02-18 01:45:11 +0100 <EvanR> tomsmeding, by avoiding mtl classes, what do you use instead
2025-02-18 01:45:38 +0100 <Inst> yeah, already went to GHCup
2025-02-18 01:45:51 +0100 <Inst> also, is it valid to try to boycott Michael Snoyman?
2025-02-18 01:46:09 +0100 <Inst> Hecate would know why
2025-02-18 01:48:02 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> please don't target persons with FUD, if you have something the community really needs to hear about then speak up
2025-02-18 01:48:32 +0100 <Inst> It's just about politics, i.e, some people would wish to avoid products made by developers in certain countries.
2025-02-18 01:48:52 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> that's a better way to ask (general principles, not personal attacks)
2025-02-18 01:48:59 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:6343:237d:85c9:269e) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-02-18 01:49:18 +0100 <Inst> It came up on Wechat Haskell group, briefly, because of their local politics, but most people are too pragmatic to care, and Snoyman has built a lot of good software.
2025-02-18 01:49:31 +0100 <EvanR> this topic seems toxic as hell
2025-02-18 01:49:34 +0100 <EvanR> lovely
2025-02-18 01:49:35 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:6343:237d:85c9:269e)
2025-02-18 01:49:48 +0100 <Inst> Yeah, that's why I asked in that way, I just wanted to know if it was possible.
2025-02-18 01:50:01 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> there has been a lot of drama in the past, around snoyman in particular. Not keen to see that perpetuated. But sure, ask generally
2025-02-18 01:50:09 +0100 <Inst> Cabal has Snoyman on the contributors list, so you can't avoid Cabal.
2025-02-18 01:50:55 +0100 <EvanR> technically you can
2025-02-18 01:51:05 +0100 <EvanR> compile and link stuff directly
2025-02-18 01:51:21 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-02-18 01:51:37 +0100 <EvanR> but I'll give you a 99% of chance of your reasons for doing so being ridiculous
2025-02-18 01:52:05 +0100 <Inst> And honestly, it's probably insincere / BS posturing to avoid Snoyman; if you really want to do so, build better libraries than Snoyman does and use them instead. It's not like his libraries are on anything other than maintainership mode.
2025-02-18 01:53:19 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> tuning out
2025-02-18 01:53:35 +0100 <Inst> I just wanted to ask, not throwing fuel on the fire.
2025-02-18 01:53:38 +0100 <EvanR> lol
2025-02-18 01:55:48 +0100alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee
2025-02-18 01:56:34 +0100sprotte24(~sprotte24@p200300d16f275200c497ecd45d202d2a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-02-18 01:57:32 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> no offense Inst, but I don't trust your judgement here. I'm with you that politics and principles are important to discuss sometimes, but if you must keep singling out some individual for your discussion, pick me, I don't mind :)
2025-02-18 01:58:08 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-18 01:59:16 +0100acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f34117511048fc3b2ed.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2025-02-18 01:59:18 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> well I've said my piece, carry on
2025-02-18 01:59:55 +0100 <Inst> It's less about going after Snoyman, he's done a lot of work, but to make it explicit, some people BDS Israel, which I think is a valid political (but personal) choice, and Snoyman's libraries are technically in the scope. So, while I generally like Snoyman, I know people who don't, and might wish to BDS his library contributions.
2025-02-18 02:00:11 +0100 <Inst> Maybe forget this conversation, it's just cursed in general.
2025-02-18 02:00:38 +0100alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-02-18 02:00:42 +0100 <monochrom> Yes you have a track record of creating cursed topics.
2025-02-18 02:01:03 +0100 <monochrom> If I boycott anything, it's cursed topics and their creators.
2025-02-18 02:01:09 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-02-18 02:01:53 +0100 <EvanR> "Not to go after Snoyman, I don't mean to cast doubt on Snoyman, but fuck Snoyman?" -- Inst sounds like a third rate shill xD
2025-02-18 02:02:00 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> I hear you. If you want to be practical, I think you/people could certainly start reviewing/listing/curating subsets of hackage/stackage based on certain criteria
2025-02-18 02:02:39 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> just let's not stir up vague FUD about individuals please
2025-02-18 02:02:41 +0100 <monochrom> Oh the Aesop fable of the mice predicts that people who not bother to do such things. :)
2025-02-18 02:02:55 +0100 <monochrom> s/who/will/
2025-02-18 02:03:05 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> I hear you. If you want to be practical, I think you could certainly start reviewing/listing/curating subsets of hackage/stackage based on certain criteria
2025-02-18 02:04:09 +0100 <Inst> sm: tbh, it's less useful than to have and to build good alternative libraries, which will eventually be used by others based on their utility, not personal politics.
2025-02-18 02:04:21 +0100 <Inst> For me, it's that http-conduit was my go-to.
2025-02-18 02:06:08 +0100 <EvanR> you want to rewrite http-conduit
2025-02-18 02:06:55 +0100weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2025-02-18 02:07:30 +0100 <EvanR> if you did that it would be forever known as "this thing written for political purposes, while the author saying the whole time it's not"
2025-02-18 02:08:03 +0100 <EvanR> again contradicting what it seems like you're saying
2025-02-18 02:08:28 +0100 <Inst> yes, it would be written for political purposes, but whether or not it actually becomes useful depends on the quality of the code and the interface
2025-02-18 02:08:38 +0100 <Inst> *actually becomes commonly used
2025-02-18 02:09:01 +0100 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> Sorry what? You boycott Snoymans libraries because of his nationality or did he actually share his political opinion publicly?
2025-02-18 02:09:25 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-02-18 02:10:03 +0100 <Inst> tbh maybe you're right and it's silly, because it's open-source, no one's making any money off it
2025-02-18 02:10:32 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> Inst building something as good as http-conduit isn't easy - I don't think you're seriously going to try but if you were, check out the existing alternatives
2025-02-18 02:10:44 +0100 <Inst> wreq is there
2025-02-18 02:10:59 +0100user363627(~user@user/user363627) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-02-18 02:11:27 +0100 <Inst> ugh, i need to bring matrix back online, but you can find Snoyman's view on things online, which is shared publicly. It seems to me to be well-spoken and moderate, but your politics may vary.
2025-02-18 02:11:33 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> oh sorry, I was thinking "conduit". That's a smaller task, but still pretty darn hard judging my my recent skim of http-client's issue tracker
2025-02-18 02:11:35 +0100 <Inst> would otherwise DM it to maerwald
2025-02-18 02:12:46 +0100user363627(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2025-02-18 02:12:48 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> * HTTP is
2025-02-18 02:12:53 +0100weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-02-18 02:12:55 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> * by
2025-02-18 02:13:37 +0100 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> I find bringing politics into tech generally cancerous. People sharing their views in a respectful and non-invasive manner is a different matter.
2025-02-18 02:13:54 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-02-18 02:13:56 +0100 <geekosaur> ^
2025-02-18 02:15:10 +0100 <Inst> I'm just more surprised the old "hang snoyman" faction never built a boycott and alternative list before the events of the past few years.
2025-02-18 02:15:31 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> are you seriously going to keep mentioning his name in every comment ?
2025-02-18 02:15:40 +0100 <Inst> I'll drop it, forget it.
2025-02-18 02:15:49 +0100 <monochrom> Finally.
2025-02-18 02:15:51 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:6343:237d:85c9:269e) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-02-18 02:16:24 +0100 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> I've had intense political arguments at Zurihac in private. It works much better than online, in my experience.
2025-02-18 02:16:43 +0100yegorc(~yegorc@user/yegorc) yegorc
2025-02-18 02:17:43 +0100 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> Online political commentary is rarel insightful
2025-02-18 02:18:15 +0100 <monochrom> Oh, very generally, opinions are rarely valuable.
2025-02-18 02:18:17 +0100 <geekosaur> I'm not sure I recommend political arguments anyway. people tend to get defensive and intransigent, which makes it pointless
2025-02-18 02:19:23 +0100 <EvanR> someone once said there are no good arguments, only good arguers
2025-02-18 02:19:29 +0100 <monochrom> be it politics or technical topics. https://danluu.com/cocktail-ideas/ explains the technical topics case.
2025-02-18 02:19:43 +0100 <Axman6> monochrom: my opinion is your opinion is valuable
2025-02-18 02:19:47 +0100 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> Yes, veritasium made an interesting video on that. Apparently bias gets worse the more intelligent you are.
2025-02-18 02:19:59 +0100 <monochrom> I'm a rarity! >:D
2025-02-18 02:23:22 +0100 <EvanR> *edits the CSS of that page with the debugger to decrease the width*
2025-02-18 02:23:40 +0100 <EvanR> I get exhausted reading before the end of the line
2025-02-18 02:23:55 +0100 <monochrom> Or just shrink the browser window width to what it should be!
2025-02-18 02:24:17 +0100 <EvanR> change the size of the window :horror: ?
2025-02-18 02:24:44 +0100 <monochrom> It is other web pages that assume/require wide windows that are wrong.
2025-02-18 02:24:47 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-02-18 02:25:58 +0100 <monochrom> My opinion is valueless like I said, but IMO no web page design has the right to force a width on you. You choose your favourite width and the web page should still work fine.
2025-02-18 02:26:28 +0100 <monochrom> and height, and font size, and font styles, etc etc
2025-02-18 02:26:52 +0100 <EvanR> configuration over convention eh?
2025-02-18 02:27:04 +0100 <monochrom> But it's not just my opinion by now. After decades, accessibility rediscovers the same principle.
2025-02-18 02:28:02 +0100 <Inst> maerwald: is it because reality is a poorly-defined axiomatic system?
2025-02-18 02:28:12 +0100 <Inst> And people tend not to acknowledge that fact?
2025-02-18 02:28:36 +0100 <EvanR> reality is not a poorly-defined axiomatic system
2025-02-18 02:28:54 +0100 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> Watch the video
2025-02-18 02:29:17 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-02-18 02:29:53 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> oh sorry, I was thinking "conduit". HTTP is a smaller[bigger?] task, but still pretty darn hard judging by my recent skim of http-client's issue tracker
2025-02-18 02:30:19 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> oh sorry, I was thinking "conduit". HTTP is a smaller[bigger?] task, but also pretty darn hard judging by my recent skim of http-client's issue tracker
2025-02-18 02:31:56 +0100 <geekosaur> your edits of old messages are kinda screwy on this side
2025-02-18 02:32:15 +0100 <EvanR> IRC is append-only log xD
2025-02-18 02:32:42 +0100 <geekosaur> reality isn't an axiomatic system at all. people tend to take their personal beliefs as axioms and try to force reality to fit those axioms. (I include myself in this; the only difference is I'm aware of it and to some extent why it's so)
2025-02-18 02:32:52 +0100 <monochrom> I'm OK with edits, until you edit very old messages, at which point the point is moot.
2025-02-18 02:35:55 +0100Inst(~Inst@user/Inst) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-02-18 02:36:05 +0100 <Leary> Vsauce also has a good video ('The Future of Reasoning') about how human intelligence is not embodied by individuals, but rather by groups---basically we /need/ to discuss difficult problems (preferably in small groups IRL), or we're only operating at half capacity. Still can't convince me to talk politics though. >.>
2025-02-18 02:37:01 +0100 <geekosaur> bet he gets along well with James Burke…
2025-02-18 02:37:28 +0100 <geekosaur> (sarcasm, if its not clear)
2025-02-18 02:37:32 +0100 <monochrom> Except/Until you hear from some of us that the rubber duck method is equivalent to talking to real people. >:)
2025-02-18 02:38:22 +0100 <monochrom> On that note, I like to butcher a Shaw quote. I argue with myself all the time, it adds sparks to my arguments. >:)
2025-02-18 02:40:10 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-02-18 02:41:25 +0100 <monochrom> Mathematicians have actually learned to do that. When they are working on a conjecture, they divide up their time to try both proving and disproving. And the two efforts actually help feed each other.
2025-02-18 02:41:26 +0100 <geekosaur> re rubber duck method, that only addresses half the problem (organizing one's own thoughts), it doesn't address synergistic effects from multiple viewpoints
2025-02-18 02:42:06 +0100 <monochrom> I have success with that sometimes. I build a counterexample by trying to prove with pretty standard techniques.
2025-02-18 02:42:25 +0100 <monochrom> (and see where I get stuck, that's where counterexamples are inspired)
2025-02-18 02:42:35 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> sorry for the edits, I forgot this room is IRC-bridged and IRC-first
2025-02-18 02:43:06 +0100Inst(~Inst@user/Inst) Inst
2025-02-18 02:43:33 +0100alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee
2025-02-18 02:44:21 +0100 <Inst> geekosaur: sorry for bringing it up, but #haskell-offtopic
2025-02-18 02:44:50 +0100 <monochrom> #haskell-offtopic is not where you dump your toxic topics either.
2025-02-18 02:45:04 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-02-18 02:45:44 +0100 <geekosaur> this channel often goes offtopic when nothing else is going on, it's not a problem unless it interferes with on-topic discussions
2025-02-18 02:45:55 +0100 <geekosaur> and -offtopic isn't bridged and probably won't be
2025-02-18 02:46:43 +0100 <geekosaur> I should mention that the current bridge is part of why edits don't work well, it for example never uses s/// edits so it's often unclear what it's replacing
2025-02-18 02:47:02 +0100user363627weary-traveler
2025-02-18 02:47:45 +0100 <geekosaur> I am waiting for something to come through, if it does I will be moving the bridge off my laptop to dedicated hosting and probably off my personal domain name. and since that'll require rebuilding everything anyway, I may switch to matrix-appservice-irc which will get better editing and bidirectional puppeting
2025-02-18 02:47:59 +0100alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-02-18 02:48:50 +0100 <Inst> I mean that events, what is real, are essentially axioms, and the not well-defined part comes out to what events people agree happened. A lot of discourse essentially comes down to arguing over axioms; you can prove that they're inconsistent sometimes, but only sometimes.
2025-02-18 02:49:54 +0100 <geekosaur> "events" are in the eye of the beholder; they make lousy axioms
2025-02-18 02:50:46 +0100 <geekosaur> ask three people what happened, you get at least3 different answers
2025-02-18 02:51:55 +0100 <EvanR> geekosaur, a bridge feature which transliterates edits using a much smaller s/foo/bar/ pattern, if possible, for the IRC side would be funny
2025-02-18 02:52:36 +0100 <Inst> Which is my point about that being an explanation for why bias is more intense with intelligent people.
2025-02-18 02:52:38 +0100 <EvanR> though it might be nonsensical when done 30 minutes later
2025-02-18 02:52:51 +0100 <monochrom> I just wonder (I am evil) what if my message is "s/space/spaces/" and then I edit it to "s/space/spice/" >:)
2025-02-18 02:53:10 +0100 <EvanR> processing
2025-02-18 02:54:08 +0100 <EvanR> so it reports s/spaces/spice/ right lol
2025-02-18 02:54:17 +0100hsw(~hsw@2001-b030-2303-0104-0172-0025-0012-0132.hinet-ip6.hinet.net) hsw
2025-02-18 02:54:24 +0100 <monochrom> Oh! Right, that's easy.
2025-02-18 02:55:01 +0100 <weary-traveler> what are we talking about?
2025-02-18 02:55:21 +0100 <weary-traveler> sed patterns?
2025-02-18 02:55:32 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-02-18 02:55:45 +0100 <monochrom> I should use examples like from "s/space/spaces/" to "nah". My goal was to force an escape code convention. But on 2nd thought, the point is moot because no one on matrix has an incentive to use s/// notation in the first place.
2025-02-18 02:55:54 +0100 <EvanR> autogenerating simplistic sed patterns from two versions of messages
2025-02-18 02:56:52 +0100 <EvanR> yes it breaks down if it's not a minor edit
2025-02-18 02:57:41 +0100 <weary-traveler> i propose that a diff patch be generated and uploaded to a paste service
2025-02-18 02:57:46 +0100 <EvanR> the wizard went vaguely north
2025-02-18 02:57:48 +0100 <EvanR> edited to
2025-02-18 02:57:54 +0100 <EvanR> the ogre went vaguely west
2025-02-18 02:58:05 +0100 <EvanR> no one would sed substitute it
2025-02-18 02:58:29 +0100 <EvanR> with 1 command
2025-02-18 02:59:12 +0100 <monochrom> If you're limited to 1 command, I have a feeling that it's an NP-complete problem.
2025-02-18 02:59:18 +0100 <jackdk> `s/.*/the ogre went vaguely west/`
2025-02-18 02:59:22 +0100 <weary-traveler> jokes aside, it might be better to paste the updated message anew. something like: "EDIT: xyz (WAS: abc)"
2025-02-18 03:00:06 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-02-18 03:00:15 +0100 <weary-traveler> (assuming i didn't misunderstand the context that this is in the context of an irc bridge)
2025-02-18 03:00:42 +0100 <weary-traveler> i.e., the approach that message-mode takes when altering subject in an email thread
2025-02-18 03:04:33 +0100 <geekosaur> weary-traveler, we're talking about Matrix-side edits sent to IRC
2025-02-18 03:04:44 +0100 <geekosaur> (this channel exists on both with a bridge bot)
2025-02-18 03:05:17 +0100Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2025-02-18 03:05:31 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp)
2025-02-18 03:05:52 +0100 <geekosaur> so yeh, appservice-irc would send the second edit relative to the first, not the originsl
2025-02-18 03:06:24 +0100 <geekosaur> but it would still need to send the whole message again if there've been additional messages sent since
2025-02-18 03:06:41 +0100 <geekosaur> there's just no good solution given IRC doesn't support edits
2025-02-18 03:06:46 +0100 <weary-traveler> geekosaur: thanks for confirming. pasting the full message with the original parenthesized seems like the best approach "default" approach to me. small levenshtein distance edits might be better suited for a sed-pattern approach
2025-02-18 03:07:36 +0100 <geekosaur> oh, matrix-appserice-irc also includes just enough context to disambiguate if an edit could otherwise match in multiple places
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2025-02-18 06:01:39 +0100tavare(~tavare@150.129.88.189)
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2025-02-18 06:22:49 +0100 <ski> "Also an existential pattern binding at the top level of a module doesn’t make sense" -- SML/NJ,PolyML kinda does something like that, when not generalizing in the presence of the value restriction (effectively replacing the tyvars with skolems)
2025-02-18 06:23:04 +0100 <ski> OCaml,MoSML,MetaML otoh leaves the tyvars as meta variables, so later declarations could possibly instantiate them
2025-02-18 06:24:32 +0100 <ski> (didn't check MLton,ML Kit,ML Works,Alice ML,EML,Caml)
2025-02-18 06:24:44 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-02-18 06:24:54 +0100 <ski> (hm, nor F#)
2025-02-18 06:25:11 +0100 <ski> "because it’s not clear how to prevent the existentially-quantified type “escaping”" -- neither SML nor OCaml does appear to prevent the skolem from leaking / the metavar from being instantiated after the module has been constructed, although it would probably be possible to do, somewhat similar to what is done with opening existentials in a local scope
2025-02-18 06:25:19 +0100 <ski> instead of checking it doesn't occur in result type, you'd need to check it doesn't occur in types of exported operations
2025-02-18 06:25:30 +0100 <ski> "how human intelligence is not embodied by individuals, but rather by groups---basically we /need/ to discuss difficult problems (preferably in small groups IRL), or we're only operating at half capacity" -- distributed cognition
2025-02-18 06:28:36 +0100michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.215)
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2025-02-18 08:16:39 +0100GdeVolpiano(~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) GdeVolpiano
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2025-02-18 08:21:16 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2025-02-18 08:21:24 +0100 <[exa]> ok so now that we have the wasm and wasm still has zero official ways of interacting with DOM, wouldn't it be quite logical to build a small interpreter of wasm structures to DOM manipulation commands, so that we could just stream the changes to some small js urchin that interprets the whole thing into the browser DOM?
2025-02-18 08:21:42 +0100 <[exa]> ^ possible nonsense, just decided to think out loud
2025-02-18 08:22:09 +0100merijn(~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn
2025-02-18 08:23:18 +0100 <[exa]> as in, react & pals have a similar thing (they "interpret" via diffing and rebuild whole structure twice anyway), so the performance hit shouldn't be harsh
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2025-02-18 08:59:14 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937
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2025-02-18 09:00:04 +0100acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f20c06f460756a3e282.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
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2025-02-18 09:01:00 +0100caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
2025-02-18 09:02:05 +0100alfiee(~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee
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2025-02-18 09:19:40 +0100 <tomsmeding> EvanR: re what instead of mtl classes: write a monad definition, write the methods I want it to have, don't export the monad definition :p
2025-02-18 09:20:37 +0100 <tomsmeding> sometimes if I want a local State or something I just do that; you can use Control.Monad.Trans.Class(MonadTrans(lift)) to, well, lift methods to monads further down (?) the stack
2025-02-18 09:20:56 +0100 <tomsmeding> lifts usually go up, this one doesn't apparently /shrug/
2025-02-18 09:24:13 +0100atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) atwm