2025-01-29 00:04:15 +0100 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) user363627 |
2025-01-29 00:07:30 +0100 | mulk | (~mulk@pd9514894.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) mulk |
2025-01-29 00:09:59 +0100 | Ranhir | (~Ranhir@157.97.53.139) (Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/) |
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2025-01-29 00:17:43 +0100 | Ranhir | (~Ranhir@157.97.53.139) Ranhir |
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2025-01-29 00:20:08 +0100 | lythieme | (~lythieme@209.214.83.194) (Quit: Client closed) |
2025-01-29 00:24:05 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> foldr/build-like theorems are pretty interesting. On Mendler-encoded data it holds for mcata/mbuild by beta reduction (mbuild is just id but fancy) |
2025-01-29 00:24:45 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Not sure how a paramorphism can be encoded in the same style tho, probably some messing around with the parameters |
2025-01-29 00:26:26 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Histomorphisms can be encoded Mendler-style but not in a total language. Some subset might be able to be encoded tho, haven't checked |
2025-01-29 00:26:50 +0100 | ljdarj1 | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
2025-01-29 00:28:37 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-01-29 00:28:45 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> I'm actually really interested in those because they are essential in my lang. It's the best lambda encoding without recursive types that I've found |
2025-01-29 00:29:54 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-01-29 00:29:54 +0100 | ljdarj1 | ljdarj |
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2025-01-29 00:50:13 +0100 | <EvanR_> | mendler-encoding ? |
2025-01-29 00:55:16 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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2025-01-29 01:16:36 +0100 | TheCoffeMaker | (~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) TheCoffeMaker |
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2025-01-29 01:47:26 +0100 | Inst_ | (~Inst_@2600:1006:b039:8e06:348d:59cb:8a80:2e01) |
2025-01-29 01:47:54 +0100 | <Inst_> | Is Haskell still relevant in the age of LLM programmers? |
2025-01-29 01:48:10 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Axman6> No |
2025-01-29 01:48:15 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Axman6> we're all dead |
2025-01-29 01:48:29 +0100 | <Inst_> | To some extent, I suspect its susceptibility to formal verification actually makes it quite suited. |
2025-01-29 01:48:39 +0100 | <Inst_> | Actually, I'm dead inside, Axman6. |
2025-01-29 01:49:17 +0100 | GdeVolpiano | (~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) GdeVolpiano |
2025-01-29 01:49:24 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Axman6> I sae someone say yesterday that they couldn't convince one of the LLMs that "addOne = (+ 1)" was valid haskell, so there's still hope |
2025-01-29 01:49:40 +0100 | <geekosaur> | LLMs don't understand Haskell. Maybe if someone had fed them Wadler, SPJ, ekmett, Conor McBride, etc. instead of random blogs, they'd do a good job with it |
2025-01-29 01:50:22 +0100 | <Inst_> | I used to be pro-Simple Haskell, now I'm pro-fancy types because when LLMs end up spitting code and the job of the developer is to validate it, the type system helps |
2025-01-29 01:50:36 +0100 | <geekosaur> | (there's more where those 4 came from; sadly nobody's asking me for a bibliography to feed LLMs) |
2025-01-29 01:50:56 +0100 | <Inst_> | I'm actually on WeChat with a segment of the Chinese Haskell community |
2025-01-29 01:51:17 +0100 | <Inst_> | Let me get you the GitHub links for the game snake, someone complained it wasn't using classy MTL |
2025-01-29 01:51:29 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
2025-01-29 01:51:33 +0100 | <Inst_> | Produced via both deepseek and 1.o |
2025-01-29 01:51:52 +0100 | Inst_ | (~Inst_@2600:1006:b039:8e06:348d:59cb:8a80:2e01) (Client Quit) |
2025-01-29 01:52:37 +0100 | Inst__ | (~Inst__@2600:1006:b039:8e06:348d:59cb:8a80:2e01) |
2025-01-29 01:52:42 +0100 | <Inst__> | https://gist.github.com/yihuang/7344984aed9a13099146dc55dd4249e3 |
2025-01-29 01:52:51 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
2025-01-29 01:54:46 +0100 | <Inst__> | The MTL one is a screenshot, can't link |
2025-01-29 01:55:28 +0100 | <Inst__> | Other complaint is that the code deepseek / 1.o are producing are too imperative |
2025-01-29 01:56:18 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
2025-01-29 01:57:28 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d17fae8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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2025-01-29 02:04:04 +0100 | Googulator | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-1666-e945-fd21-b920-9aa7.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
2025-01-29 02:07:00 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-01-29 02:07:26 +0100 | <Inst__> | :( I thought the code would be fun to tear apart |
2025-01-29 02:07:55 +0100 | <Inst__> | It technically works, I mean, I haven't had a machine for a while, but it doesn't provide a concept of a loop, and the code is ugly |
2025-01-29 02:15:25 +0100 | sprotte24 | (~sprotte24@p200300d16f3179007dc10aa53878022c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving) |
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2025-01-29 02:30:24 +0100 | Inst__ | (~Inst__@2600:1006:b039:8e06:348d:59cb:8a80:2e01) (Quit: Client closed) |
2025-01-29 02:32:09 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
2025-01-29 02:32:21 +0100 | Inst_ | (~Inst_@2600:1006:b039:8e06:348d:59cb:8a80:2e01) |
2025-01-29 02:33:07 +0100 | xff0x | (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) |
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2025-01-29 02:35:47 +0100 | <Inst_> | Let me babble a bit more: Haskell is still relevant because the readability, maintainability, purity, and comprehensibility of Haskell helps in a future age where most code is generated, because security from strong types is now paramount; you do not want the LLM to have its training data poisoned and accidentally expose your data, or worse, launch |
2025-01-29 02:35:48 +0100 | <Inst_> | ze missiles, and only functional programming can provide that level of security |
2025-01-29 02:35:48 +0100 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
2025-01-29 02:35:54 +0100 | <Inst_> | Sorry about this |
2025-01-29 02:36:26 +0100 | Inst_ | (~Inst_@2600:1006:b039:8e06:348d:59cb:8a80:2e01) (Client Quit) |
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2025-01-29 02:59:14 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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2025-01-29 03:13:19 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> EvanR_ https://www.researchgate.net/publication/269080460_A_hierarchy_of_mendler_style_recursion_combinat… |
2025-01-29 03:14:04 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
2025-01-29 03:15:54 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal |
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2025-01-29 03:17:20 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
2025-01-29 03:17:34 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Inst already left but an LLM would be bad (or at least harder to train) at type level magic because it is logic, not a freeform language. Something with reinforcement learning (or similar) would be better, since the problem is more similar to playing chess |
2025-01-29 03:19:02 +0100 | Tikosh | (~quassel@user/Tikosh) Tikosh |
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2025-01-29 03:35:56 +0100 | AvengingFemme | (~avengingf@syn-074-076-186-205.res.spectrum.com) |
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2025-01-29 03:49:11 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal |
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2025-01-29 04:05:14 +0100 | Square | (~Square@user/square) Square |
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2025-01-29 04:08:19 +0100 | remedan | (~remedan@ip-62-245-108-153.bb.vodafone.cz) (Quit: Bye!) |
2025-01-29 04:10:09 +0100 | <monochrom> | Haskell will be relevant again after the LLM fad dies. |
2025-01-29 04:10:09 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
2025-01-29 04:10:19 +0100 | <monochrom> | or rather, s/fad/bubble/ |
2025-01-29 04:10:57 +0100 | remedan | (~remedan@ip-62-245-108-153.bb.vodafone.cz) remedan |
2025-01-29 04:10:57 +0100 | <monochrom> | Not to say that LLM per se will die, but all bubbles and overhypes die. Then LLM will shrink back to what it's really worth, which is still a lot. |
2025-01-29 04:11:39 +0100 | forell | (~forell@user/forell) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
2025-01-29 04:12:09 +0100 | <monochrom> | For example, see how C became relevant again after the interweb bubble bursted. |
2025-01-29 04:13:49 +0100 | <monochrom> | Although, I heard that DeepSeek is both LLM and reinforcement learning. It may yet do something. |
2025-01-29 04:29:20 +0100 | forell | (~forell@user/forell) forell |
2025-01-29 04:32:04 +0100 | <hololeap> | deepseq `compare` DeepSeek = ... |
2025-01-29 04:32:22 +0100 | <monochrom> | :) |
2025-01-29 04:32:53 +0100 | <hololeap> | jk |
2025-01-29 04:32:59 +0100 | <hololeap> | I'm just in it for the puns |
2025-01-29 04:33:22 +0100 | <monochrom> | rnf = reinforcement network form >:) |
2025-01-29 04:33:36 +0100 | forell | (~forell@user/forell) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
2025-01-29 04:38:09 +0100 | forell | (~forell@user/forell) forell |
2025-01-29 04:39:01 +0100 | <hololeap> | understanding natural language is really valuable for a coding AI, but it should at least be trained to never write invalid code, and ideally write code that experienced programmers would like |
2025-01-29 04:54:13 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
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2025-01-29 05:53:07 +0100 | forell | (~forell@user/forell) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-01-29 05:58:54 +0100 | AvengingFemme | (~avengingf@syn-074-076-186-205.res.spectrum.com) (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
2025-01-29 05:59:12 +0100 | m5zs7k | (aquares@web10.mydevil.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
2025-01-29 05:59:39 +0100 | Inst_ | (~Inst_@2601:6c1:786:fb0:f1f1:b264:d1dc:e467) |
2025-01-29 06:00:20 +0100 | forell | (~forell@user/forell) forell |
2025-01-29 06:00:41 +0100 | <Inst_> | monochrom: the practitioners on WeChat, I forget if they're doing Haskell, have already swapped to LLM / reinforcement learning AI for smaller coding tasks, with developer validation to guarantee coherency |
2025-01-29 06:03:25 +0100 | <Inst_> | It does seem harder, however, to get the architecture right, especially for a language like Haskell when the software architecture can be rather subjective |
2025-01-29 06:06:48 +0100 | m5zs7k | (aquares@web10.mydevil.net) m5zs7k |
2025-01-29 06:09:30 +0100 | <monochrom> | I am not surprised that Haskell is harder to learn, but this is just due to having fewer examples to learn from. Even humans complain that there are not enough learning resources, so nevermind machines. This is just networking effect again (pun intended!). |
2025-01-29 06:14:10 +0100 | Inst_ | (~Inst_@2601:6c1:786:fb0:f1f1:b264:d1dc:e467) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
2025-01-29 06:15:26 +0100 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!) |
2025-01-29 06:18:54 +0100 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.222) |
2025-01-29 06:22:16 +0100 | Inst_ | (~Inst_@2601:6c1:786:fb0:f1f1:b264:d1dc:e467) |
2025-01-29 06:22:46 +0100 | <Inst_> | In the Haskell case, I think it's because there's so much variation in style |
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2025-01-29 06:37:51 +0100 | forell_ | (~forell@host-178-216-90-220.sta.tvknaszapraca.pl) |
2025-01-29 06:38:14 +0100 | forell | (~forell@user/forell) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
2025-01-29 06:43:06 +0100 | Inst_ | (~Inst_@2601:6c1:786:fb0:f1f1:b264:d1dc:e467) |
2025-01-29 06:46:30 +0100 | Guest62 | (~Guest62@c-73-217-79-154.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
2025-01-29 06:47:41 +0100 | tnt2 | (~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1 |
2025-01-29 06:47:58 +0100 | tnt1 | (~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-01-29 06:47:58 +0100 | tnt2 | tnt1 |
2025-01-29 06:51:52 +0100 | alp_ | (~alp@2001:861:8ca0:4940:e12c:836d:ea5e:ec4e) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-01-29 06:52:09 +0100 | alp_ | (~alp@2001:861:8ca0:4940:3a35:f14:2955:91dd) |
2025-01-29 06:52:40 +0100 | Inst_ | (~Inst_@2601:6c1:786:fb0:f1f1:b264:d1dc:e467) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
2025-01-29 06:55:04 +0100 | lisbeths | (uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com) lisbeths |
2025-01-29 06:56:11 +0100 | alp_ | (~alp@2001:861:8ca0:4940:3a35:f14:2955:91dd) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-01-29 06:56:29 +0100 | alp_ | (~alp@2001:861:8ca0:4940:f8f:81fa:f83b:c58) |
2025-01-29 06:59:58 +0100 | ft | (~ft@p3e9bcd97.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving) |