| 2025-01-26 00:00:06 +0100 | aaronv | (~aaronv@user/aaronv) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-01-26 00:00:26 +0100 | aaronv | (~aaronv@user/aaronv) aaronv |
| 2025-01-26 00:01:34 +0100 | wootehfoot | (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-26 00:07:09 +0100 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod |
| 2025-01-26 00:07:50 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 00:09:20 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 2025-01-26 00:14:27 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 00:14:38 +0100 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty |
| 2025-01-26 00:15:41 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-01-26 00:17:41 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 00:20:01 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 00:26:02 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 00:26:59 +0100 | fp1 | (~Thunderbi@87-94-148-3.rev.dnainternet.fi) fp |
| 2025-01-26 00:27:28 +0100 | JuanDaugherty | ColinRobinson |
| 2025-01-26 00:30:04 +0100 | target_i | (~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2025-01-26 00:30:54 +0100 | <fp1> | How do you compose parsers together with megaparsec? I'm presently trying to, within my own parser, get a string out of the stream and then parse that and return the result. But I can't apply a parser directly to a string, like =string "foo" theStringIJustMade=, so I don't really know how to proceed |
| 2025-01-26 00:30:58 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 00:31:44 +0100 | <c_wraith> | you use Functor, Applicative, Alternative, and Monad |
| 2025-01-26 00:33:07 +0100 | <c_wraith> | (do note, though, that if you need a fixed-length string to match the parser, megaparsec doesn't support that nicely) |
| 2025-01-26 00:33:59 +0100 | hiredman | (~hiredman@frontier1.downey.family) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 2025-01-26 00:34:54 +0100 | ColinRobinson | JuanDaugherty |
| 2025-01-26 00:35:17 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 00:40:34 +0100 | JuanDaugherty | Lycurgus |
| 2025-01-26 00:41:02 +0100 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Changing host) |
| 2025-01-26 00:41:02 +0100 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/Lycurgus) Lycurgus |
| 2025-01-26 00:41:50 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 00:42:34 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> you can run megaparsec recursively, optionally with the current position preserved so your error messages are still good |
| 2025-01-26 00:42:42 +0100 | sawilagar | (~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 00:42:58 +0100 | <c_wraith> | You can, but you usually don't need to. |
| 2025-01-26 00:43:28 +0100 | <c_wraith> | You should start by figuring out why the compositional interfaces don't work first. Matching a fixed-length string is one case where they don't. |
| 2025-01-26 00:43:30 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> if you can avoid it, it's better |
| 2025-01-26 00:45:08 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> what do you mean by matching a fixed length string c_wraith ? |
| 2025-01-26 00:45:21 +0100 | <fp1> | So it seems that Applicative might be what I want, but I can't seem to understand how to use it. I tried =parse ((string "foo") <$ (string "foobar")) "" "text foobar"=, but that's a compile error, seemingly upset by the type of "foo" not being Tokens s0, which doesn't make much sense to me |
| 2025-01-26 00:45:54 +0100 | <c_wraith> | sm: like if you have length-delimited fields in a data structure. you see the number 50, the next 50 bytes have to match a sub-structure. |
| 2025-01-26 00:46:25 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> fp1: you can use ` (backtick, not equals), to quote literal text here |
| 2025-01-26 00:46:35 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 00:46:36 +0100 | <fp1> | kk |
| 2025-01-26 00:48:15 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> fp1: tell us again what the higher goal is maybe ? |
| 2025-01-26 00:49:20 +0100 | hueso | (~root@user/hueso) (Quit: hueso) |
| 2025-01-26 00:49:26 +0100 | <c_wraith> | fp1: I don't think <$ is the operation you want |
| 2025-01-26 00:49:38 +0100 | <c_wraith> | :t (<$) |
| 2025-01-26 00:49:38 +0100 | <lambdabot> | Functor f => a -> f b -> f a |
| 2025-01-26 00:49:56 +0100 | <c_wraith> | Note that its first argument *isn't* of type `f a`. It's just `a` |
| 2025-01-26 00:50:03 +0100 | <fp1> | So the goal is to parse scheme character literals, which is <characterLiteral> ::= "#\\" ("space" | "newline" | any non-whitespace character) Lookahead<delimiter> |
| 2025-01-26 00:50:49 +0100 | <juri_> | ok, i now have an attention mechanism, written in haskell. |
| 2025-01-26 00:50:56 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I would write it out the long way first, in a do block. That's usually easier |
| 2025-01-26 00:51:17 +0100 | <c_wraith> | fp1: consider: parse (do { foo <- string "foo" ; bar <- string "bar" ; pure (foo ++ bar) }) "" "foobar" |
| 2025-01-26 00:51:46 +0100 | <c_wraith> | And then consider what happens if you change the last line of the do block |
| 2025-01-26 00:55:16 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 00:56:55 +0100 | <fp1> | Yes, I've been writing everything in a do block. The trouble I have is I have something like `do { string <- someTill (satisfy (not . isSpace)) (lookAhead delimiter); { parse string to get the character out or error } }`. The trouble I have is, how do I run parsers on `string`? I have the parsers I would run, but not the context to run them |
| 2025-01-26 00:57:27 +0100 | <c_wraith> | you don't need to lookahead |
| 2025-01-26 00:57:33 +0100 | <c_wraith> | You can just match on an alternation |
| 2025-01-26 00:57:45 +0100 | <fp1> | what does that mean |
| 2025-01-26 00:57:46 +0100 | <c_wraith> | like (string "foo" <|> string "bar") |
| 2025-01-26 00:58:13 +0100 | <fp1> | but wouldn't that consume the delimiter? |
| 2025-01-26 00:58:24 +0100 | <c_wraith> | so... store it |
| 2025-01-26 00:58:27 +0100 | aaronv | (~aaronv@user/aaronv) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 00:59:21 +0100 | <fp1> | But that just solves a problem that I don't have with a lookahead |
| 2025-01-26 00:59:55 +0100 | <c_wraith> | But it also solves the problem of not being able to parse the result of it |
| 2025-01-26 01:00:17 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 01:00:41 +0100 | <fp1> | Sorry, what are you suggesting? Maybe I'm just not following |
| 2025-01-26 01:01:10 +0100 | <c_wraith> | I'm suggesting that instead of looking ahead, just parsing what you are looking for. |
| 2025-01-26 01:01:22 +0100 | hueso | (~root@user/hueso) hueso |
| 2025-01-26 01:01:49 +0100 | <c_wraith> | Unfortunately, megaparsec makes that a bit painful as you need to understand how to use try |
| 2025-01-26 01:02:10 +0100 | <c_wraith> | megaparsec is a kind of advanced library |
| 2025-01-26 01:04:05 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-01-26 01:04:35 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> what's wrong with https://paste.tomsmeding.com/b45DGFRM (generated code) |
| 2025-01-26 01:08:39 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 01:09:35 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) tabaqui |
| 2025-01-26 01:09:57 +0100 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 01:10:51 +0100 | haritzondo | (~hrtz@82-69-11-11.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 2025-01-26 01:10:56 +0100 | haritz | (~hrtz@user/haritz) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-26 01:11:04 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 01:12:04 +0100 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: praxis.meansofproduction.biz (juan@acm.org)) |
| 2025-01-26 01:12:58 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 01:14:51 +0100 | <fp1> | So the problem is that it fails to reject invalid input. `#\aa` should fail because "aa" isn't a named character and it's not a single character terminated by a delimiter. Same for `#\spaceq`. |
| 2025-01-26 01:15:12 +0100 | <fp1> | and indeed in that sample, it succeeds on #\aa |
| 2025-01-26 01:15:24 +0100 | <c_wraith> | so add an eof |
| 2025-01-26 01:15:47 +0100 | <c_wraith> | *that* isn't composable, so you typically don't do it inside a normal parser |
| 2025-01-26 01:15:48 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 01:16:04 +0100 | <fp1> | but it might not be the end of the file, it might be in the middle of an expression |
| 2025-01-26 01:16:20 +0100 | <c_wraith> | which is why you add the eof to the runner, not the parser |
| 2025-01-26 01:16:40 +0100 | <c_wraith> | the thing is that parse succeeds if there's unconsumed input |
| 2025-01-26 01:17:18 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 2025-01-26 01:17:28 +0100 | <monochrom> | Yes, at the outermost parser, you need a final eof check. |
| 2025-01-26 01:17:30 +0100 | <c_wraith> | If you want to ensure all input is consumed, change that to parse (schemeCharLiteral <* eof) "" |
| 2025-01-26 01:18:06 +0100 | <monochrom> | In fact, not at what you consider the outermost parser, but rather add one more new level above. |
| 2025-01-26 01:18:31 +0100 | <c_wraith> | honestly, I'm surprised there isn't a parseAll or something |
| 2025-01-26 01:18:41 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) (Quit: WeeChat 4.4.3) |
| 2025-01-26 01:19:17 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) tabaqui |
| 2025-01-26 01:19:28 +0100 | <c_wraith> | It's weird that parse doesn't flag unconsumed input in its success case at all. Very un-haskell to not return critical information like that. |
| 2025-01-26 01:20:00 +0100 | <fp1> | Wouldn't that still admit an incorrect input if it's not adjacent to the EOF? As far as I can tell, that would just give #\aa -> [Character 'a', Identifier "a"] |
| 2025-01-26 01:20:13 +0100 | <c_wraith> | Nothing is looping the parser |
| 2025-01-26 01:20:18 +0100 | <monochrom> | Perhaps in anticipation that different people have different requirements of valid beginnings and valid endings. |
| 2025-01-26 01:21:25 +0100 | <monochrom> | If you then say provide a combinator that let people supply their begin parser and end parser, then it already exists, it's called between. |
| 2025-01-26 01:21:42 +0100 | <monochrom> | generalizedParseAll = between |
| 2025-01-26 01:23:30 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> @fp1 what would you like to happen if it sees #\ followed by something invalid - terminate the whole parse with an error ? |
| 2025-01-26 01:23:40 +0100 | <fp1> | Yes |
| 2025-01-26 01:23:55 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-01-26 01:24:21 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) tabaqui |
| 2025-01-26 01:24:26 +0100 | <c_wraith> | Oh. I found the bug in the OrdPSQ stuff. Someone tried to optimize the code from the paper, and the optimization was wrong. |
| 2025-01-26 01:24:59 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-01-26 01:25:11 +0100 | <c_wraith> | Changing back to the code in the paper makes it balance monotonic inserts correctly. |
| 2025-01-26 01:25:41 +0100 | <monochrom> | I do that once in a while too. Both programs and math proofs. "I think I have a simpler way to prove this... [15 minutes later] oh wait I'm moron" |
| 2025-01-26 01:26:07 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I think you add a final catchall case, and there you can: 1. just call error if ending the program is fine, or 2. throw an exception, which you'll catch by running the parser with runExceptT |
| 2025-01-26 01:26:51 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 01:27:42 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 01:27:44 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) tabaqui |
| 2025-01-26 01:29:56 +0100 | aaronv | (~aaronv@user/aaronv) aaronv |
| 2025-01-26 01:30:19 +0100 | <fp1> | Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by terminate the whole parse with an error, because that sounds quite heavy (though maybe I'm wrong). The error here is just a regular invalid token error, akin to a binary literal 0b11002. My assumption is that the correct thing to do in this case is to return Left { ... } as Megaparsec typically does |
| 2025-01-26 01:30:43 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-01-26 01:30:53 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) tabaqui |
| 2025-01-26 01:31:13 +0100 | <geekosaur> | that is "terminate the whole parse with an error" |
| 2025-01-26 01:31:50 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 01:32:02 +0100 | <fp1> | Ok, that's good then, I've learned something |
| 2025-01-26 01:33:22 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> well there's degrees of termination. If you just fail the current micro parser, megaparsec is free to keep trying alternatives in the levels above. If you want megaparsec to give up entirely so your program can report an error.. megaparsec doesn't make this super easy; you have to combine it with the Except monad |
| 2025-01-26 01:33:27 +0100 | <geekosaur> | well, actually it's not quite that: things like <|> can "intercept" it and try something else instead, but if the Left isn't handled by a higher level parser, the parse terminates |
| 2025-01-26 01:35:44 +0100 | <monochrom> | Most "errors" are supposed to be interceptible and the callers are supposed to be allowed to try alternatives. |
| 2025-01-26 01:36:13 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) (Quit: WeeChat 4.4.3) |
| 2025-01-26 01:36:14 +0100 | <monochrom> | The notion of "I must crash the whole system here and now, and it is non-maskable" is so last century. |
| 2025-01-26 01:36:23 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) tabaqui |
| 2025-01-26 01:37:04 +0100 | <monochrom> | The last time I heard someone wanting that was in the 1990s on a BBS (remember that?) someone asked "how can my program force a system reboot? I'm trying to prank my friend" |
| 2025-01-26 01:37:34 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-01-26 01:37:55 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) tabaqui |
| 2025-01-26 01:41:44 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> sometimes you want to keep trying, othertimes when you see obvious malformed input you want to force an error. |
| 2025-01-26 01:41:57 +0100 | Pozyomka | (~pyon@user/pyon) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 01:42:22 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> (failing to do so will likely produce misleading wrong errors) |
| 2025-01-26 01:42:37 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 01:42:59 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 2025-01-26 01:44:00 +0100 | <monochrom> | That just means the grammar and the parser just needs to refrain from intercepting the error and trying alternatives. |
| 2025-01-26 01:44:47 +0100 | <monochrom> | And that's good news, because you get a correct program by writing less code! |
| 2025-01-26 01:45:48 +0100 | <monochrom> | Or even better, you can fix bugs by deleting code! |
| 2025-01-26 01:47:18 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 01:49:26 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 01:50:10 +0100 | fp1 | (~Thunderbi@87-94-148-3.rev.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 01:50:30 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> some formats aren't that easy to describe I think |
| 2025-01-26 01:51:45 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> you really can't practically have a single comprehensive tree of alternatives that handle every possible situation optimally |
| 2025-01-26 01:52:45 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I mean conceptually it's there, but practically it can't be build reliably and economically |
| 2025-01-26 01:53:50 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-01-26 01:58:24 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 01:58:39 +0100 | <yin> | i think something strange is going on. when adding no version constraints to a dependency, cabal assumes the most recent version it can find, right? |
| 2025-01-26 01:58:52 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> not always |
| 2025-01-26 01:59:00 +0100 | <c_wraith> | it assumes the most recent it can solve with the other dependencies |
| 2025-01-26 01:59:19 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> the only way to know for sure is inspect the plan with --dry-run |
| 2025-01-26 02:00:41 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 02:01:19 +0100 | <sclv> | it may be there’s a solution with pkg a older or one with pkg b older. in that case the solver is deterministic about which is picked but in a way which seems potentially arbitrary to the end user as well |
| 2025-01-26 02:03:49 +0100 | <yin> | hmm... i've been building this project with an unrestrained dependency for weeks and now seemingly out of the blue it tries to use version 1.0.0.0 |
| 2025-01-26 02:03:52 +0100 | <yin> | https://paste.jrvieira.com/1737853333495 |
| 2025-01-26 02:03:59 +0100 | <yin> | it's ansi-terminal-game |
| 2025-01-26 02:04:16 +0100 | <c_wraith> | did you do a cabal update? |
| 2025-01-26 02:04:29 +0100 | <yin> | i think i did recently, yes |
| 2025-01-26 02:04:56 +0100 | <c_wraith> | additional information can make it choose differently |
| 2025-01-26 02:05:21 +0100 | <yin> | i find no reason why it would choose 1.0.0.0 of this specific library |
| 2025-01-26 02:05:24 +0100 | <yin> | but i get it |
| 2025-01-26 02:05:25 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> that's the nature of using a dynamic solver, if you want repeatability you have to pin it down |
| 2025-01-26 02:05:34 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 02:05:34 +0100 | <yin> | always constrain your dependencies |
| 2025-01-26 02:05:45 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> usually we don't notice because things seem stable |
| 2025-01-26 02:06:29 +0100 | aaronv | (~aaronv@user/aaronv) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2025-01-26 02:06:47 +0100 | <yin> | can anyone point me to the docs on cabal freeze? |
| 2025-01-26 02:07:19 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/stable/cabal-commands.html#cabal-freeze |
| 2025-01-26 02:08:50 +0100 | <yin> | ty |
| 2025-01-26 02:09:41 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 2025-01-26 02:11:46 +0100 | <geekosaur> | often things like that happen because an added constraint to another dependency excludes newer versions of the other for some reason. I have in particular seen this happen because of a wrong/overly restrictive constraint on the other library which causes the solver to look for a version without the constraint |
| 2025-01-26 02:12:53 +0100 | <geekosaur> | you need to carefully inspect the solver output to catch this kind of thing, possibly running with a manual `--constraint=` excluding the older versions so the solver will give you a reason why it won't use the newer ones |
| 2025-01-26 02:14:21 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 02:14:40 +0100 | <geekosaur> | in particular, it looks like 0.1.0.0 simply omits constraints for everything except base, which is pretty suspicious |
| 2025-01-26 02:15:27 +0100 | <geekosaur> | so trying to build with --constraint='ansi-terminal-game > 1' should get the solver to tell you what's wrong, hopefully |
| 2025-01-26 02:15:27 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) (Quit: WeeChat 4.4.3) |
| 2025-01-26 02:15:44 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) tabaqui |
| 2025-01-26 02:16:28 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 02:16:41 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> yeah. The solver isn't always good at explaining to a human what happened, you have to coax it (this applies to stack too, even though the plans there are more static) |
| 2025-01-26 02:16:45 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-01-26 02:17:16 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) tabaqui |
| 2025-01-26 02:17:20 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-01-26 02:17:21 +0100 | <geekosaur> | in this case it won't say anything at all, it'll just pick the unconstrained version. it should output an actual error with the --constraint, so you have something to work from |
| 2025-01-26 02:17:34 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) tabaqui |
| 2025-01-26 02:17:51 +0100 | <geekosaur> | otherwise you need to run cabal with -v3 or somesuch to find out why the solver rejected every other version, since it eventually found a working plan |
| 2025-01-26 02:17:54 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-01-26 02:17:59 +0100 | <geekosaur> | well, "working" |
| 2025-01-26 02:18:37 +0100 | <yin> | seems like the culprit was random-1.3.0 |
| 2025-01-26 02:18:58 +0100 | <sclv> | yeah often when you get a totally old version of a pkg its because their first version had no constraints lol. this is one reason revisions are important! |
| 2025-01-26 02:20:29 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> idea for a safety belt: warn and fail by default if any package version more than 1y older than its latest release is selected |
| 2025-01-26 02:22:11 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) tabaqui |
| 2025-01-26 02:22:15 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-01-26 02:23:21 +0100 | <yin> | ouch. there's our unconstrained depenedncies https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ansi-terminal-game-0.1.0.0 |
| 2025-01-26 02:23:47 +0100 | <geekosaur> | only base, which hackage checks for |
| 2025-01-26 02:23:50 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) tabaqui |
| 2025-01-26 02:24:14 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-01-26 02:24:29 +0100 | <geekosaur> | first thing I noticed when I pulled it up to try to see why it would have been picked |
| 2025-01-26 02:24:44 +0100 | <geekosaur> | "yeh, that'd do it" |
| 2025-01-26 02:25:00 +0100 | otto_s | (~user@p5de2f342.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 02:25:00 +0100 | <yin> | geekosaur: oh i messed that. yeah, thanks for the heads up |
| 2025-01-26 02:25:21 +0100 | <yin> | is there something the maintainer can do about it? |
| 2025-01-26 02:25:26 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2025-01-26 02:25:39 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 02:25:56 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-01-26 02:26:00 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 02:26:04 +0100 | <geekosaur> | they can do a metadata update to add revision information |
| 2025-01-26 02:26:31 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) tabaqui |
| 2025-01-26 02:26:32 +0100 | <geekosaur> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ansi-terminal-game/maintain ("edit package information" on the Hackage page) |
| 2025-01-26 02:26:37 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> yes, they can add bounds via a revision. It's f-a in #haskell-game. But should they ? |
| 2025-01-26 02:26:40 +0100 | otto_s | (~user@p5de2f856.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2025-01-26 02:26:53 +0100 | <geekosaur> | I'd say yes, as this is just a bit of a trap |
| 2025-01-26 02:27:10 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> is a-t-g failing to compile with its deps ? |
| 2025-01-26 02:27:13 +0100 | <geekosaur> | doesn't matter how fancy a constraint solver is, bad constraints will mess it up |
| 2025-01-26 02:27:30 +0100 | igemnace | (~igemnace@user/igemnace) (Quit: ZNC 1.9.0+deb2build3 - https://znc.in) |
| 2025-01-26 02:27:40 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 2025-01-26 02:28:31 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> the bounds are very minimal, but they're not wrong, from what I read |
| 2025-01-26 02:28:36 +0100 | <geekosaur> | more likely something else will fail to compile with the ancient a-t-g, which says it's a proof of concept |
| 2025-01-26 02:29:34 +0100 | igemnace | (~igemnace@user/igemnace) igemnace |
| 2025-01-26 02:29:34 +0100 | <geekosaur> | I note 0.2.0.0 not only has constraints, it has more dependencies which suggests more functionality |
| 2025-01-26 02:30:52 +0100 | Square | (~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 02:31:06 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-01-26 02:31:06 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> taking that to the extreme, it means every version of every package on hackage should specify all bounds defensively (with corresponding massive increase in busywork and install failures), so that people can keep using a dynamic solver and treat it like a repeatable one |
| 2025-01-26 02:31:09 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 02:32:00 +0100 | <geekosaur> | that's an old, old argument |
| 2025-01-26 02:32:15 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 02:32:19 +0100 | <geekosaur> | some folks insist on minimal constraints, some on conservative, some on tight/maximal |
| 2025-01-26 02:32:37 +0100 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2025-01-26 02:32:52 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> ok, but I think it's a true statement right ? is anyone advocating for that ? |
| 2025-01-26 02:32:57 +0100 | <geekosaur> | each has failure modes, sometimes quite public (an early release of `text` caused a lot of breakage, for example) |
| 2025-01-26 02:33:04 +0100 | <geekosaur> | some do |
| 2025-01-26 02:33:13 +0100 | <geekosaur> | like I said, this argument's been going on for a long time |
| 2025-01-26 02:33:44 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I think it's more practical to use smarter tools |
| 2025-01-26 02:33:50 +0100 | <c_wraith> | stackage is all about specifying exactly one version for each package |
| 2025-01-26 02:33:58 +0100 | <c_wraith> | no ranges. nothing to solve. |
| 2025-01-26 02:34:01 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> perfect total bounds on all of hackage is unachievable |
| 2025-01-26 02:34:30 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> so tools shouldn't expect that. Some kind of hybrid approach at least is needed |
| 2025-01-26 02:34:52 +0100 | <c_wraith> | There was a thing when stack was first introduced where people using it stopped putting version bounds on their libraries on hackage. That broke everything. |
| 2025-01-26 02:34:58 +0100 | <c_wraith> | Fortunately, they got better. |
| 2025-01-26 02:36:57 +0100 | <yin> | > geekosaur some folks insist on minimal constraints, some on conservative, some on tight/maximal |
| 2025-01-26 02:36:58 +0100 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:51: error: parse error on input ‘,’ |
| 2025-01-26 02:37:05 +0100 | <yin> | isn't that what semver is all about? |
| 2025-01-26 02:37:22 +0100 | <yin> | (i know we don't use it, supposedly) |
| 2025-01-26 02:37:32 +0100 | <c_wraith> | the pvp is just expanded semver. |
| 2025-01-26 02:37:36 +0100 | otto_s | (~user@p5de2f856.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2025-01-26 02:37:37 +0100 | <geekosaur> | semver is about how you set your version, not how you specify what versions of dependencies you work with |
| 2025-01-26 02:37:41 +0100 | <c_wraith> | They have the same issue |
| 2025-01-26 02:37:52 +0100 | otto_s | (~user@p5de2f856.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2025-01-26 02:38:07 +0100 | <c_wraith> | Which is.... yeah, that. How exhaustively are you going to test the range of your dependencies that you work with? |
| 2025-01-26 02:38:23 +0100 | <geekosaur> | and yes, in the end you have the same issue: follow it strictly and spend all your time playing version whack-a-mole, or follow it loosely and break the world when the wrong dependency changes |
| 2025-01-26 02:39:16 +0100 | <geekosaur> | and there often doesn't seem to be a happy middle: whatever strategy you choose, it has failure modes |
| 2025-01-26 02:40:25 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 2025-01-26 02:40:29 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> c_wraith: nothing to solve you say.. except when you ask it to put a foot outside of the snapshot (pretty common, eg with new ghc versions), then it has to do some solvin', with similar UX issues |
| 2025-01-26 02:41:11 +0100 | <c_wraith> | well that's the reality of using stack, but that's not the marketing promise |
| 2025-01-26 02:41:45 +0100 | <jackdk> | stackage is kinda self-justifying in that it encourages people to upload packages with no bounds at all, and only rely on snapshots. I think that's very damaging, not least to the solver that produces the snapshots in the first place |
| 2025-01-26 02:41:59 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 02:42:00 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> there's no marketing saying otherwise. Obviously only packages within the snapshot benefit from the snapshot's compatibility guarantee |
| 2025-01-26 02:42:16 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> yin: I'd be interested to see your project's cabal file(s) |
| 2025-01-26 02:42:34 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-01-26 02:42:50 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> jackdk: people don't do that much, because they get shouted at |
| 2025-01-26 02:43:21 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> and if they do, it doesn't break everything - it breaks their package and things depending on it - so it's self correcting I'd say |
| 2025-01-26 02:43:29 +0100 | <yin> | sm: https://paste.jrvieira.com/1737855804443 |
| 2025-01-26 02:44:35 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> thanks. So looking at this practically, it seems to me your package is dramatically under specifying bounds, so you should expect it to fail to build right with cabal sometimes |
| 2025-01-26 02:44:53 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 02:45:14 +0100 | <yin> | sm: i sometimes avoid bounds while developing :) |
| 2025-01-26 02:45:33 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> absolutely fine, nothing wrong with that |
| 2025-01-26 02:45:57 +0100 | <yin> | one benefit is that interesting stuff like this happens and i always learn a bit |
| 2025-01-26 02:46:08 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> and now you know how to diagnose and solve the occasional glitch :) |
| 2025-01-26 02:46:17 +0100 | <yin> | yes, tyvm |
| 2025-01-26 02:46:54 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 02:46:54 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 02:47:14 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) tabaqui |
| 2025-01-26 02:48:44 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-01-26 02:49:00 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) tabaqui |
| 2025-01-26 02:49:05 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-01-26 02:50:19 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) tabaqui |
| 2025-01-26 02:52:40 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 2025-01-26 02:52:52 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-01-26 02:56:34 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> stop me if I'm becoming a bore, but... |
| 2025-01-26 02:56:34 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | we were talking earlier about cabal freeze. This might be an example of where that's too heavy handed. The lighter approach of just adding a few guiding constraints, on the deps likely to cause problems - in this case, simply >1 on ansi-terminal-game - was enough at least for now. The right approach depends on the needs of the project |
| 2025-01-26 02:56:54 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 02:57:49 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 02:58:07 +0100 | <yin> | oh sure, i used cabal freeze as a lazy way to see which constraints were being solved :) |
| 2025-01-26 02:58:41 +0100 | <yin> | i was editing my project's constraints and playing with freeze and gen-bounds |
| 2025-01-26 02:58:58 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> cabal build --dry-run [--constraint ...] FTW |
| 2025-01-26 03:00:31 +0100 | <yin> | i thought it was too much noise :x |
| 2025-01-26 03:00:35 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> and sometimes an --allow-newer or so |
| 2025-01-26 03:01:21 +0100 | ezzieyguywuf | (~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 2025-01-26 03:01:27 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> probably someone will train an LLM to be good at this |
| 2025-01-26 03:02:22 +0100 | sprotte24 | (~sprotte24@p200300d16f1a11001925fb087a37c132.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2025-01-26 03:02:46 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 03:04:25 +0100 | <yin> | (i mean too much noise with -v, too quiet wihout) |
| 2025-01-26 03:04:42 +0100 | Pozyomka | (~pyon@user/pyon) pyon |
| 2025-01-26 03:04:46 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> oh yea, that's frustrating. stack is the same |
| 2025-01-26 03:05:28 +0100 | <yin> | cabal gen-bounds was just right |
| 2025-01-26 03:09:00 +0100 | ft | (~ft@p3e9bcfa2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 03:10:43 +0100 | ft | (~ft@p3e9bcd97.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) ft |
| 2025-01-26 03:13:33 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 03:18:29 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 03:23:57 +0100 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f82584cd550442beef5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 03:29:22 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 03:31:19 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-01-26 03:34:17 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 03:34:40 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 2025-01-26 03:35:19 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 03:38:29 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) tabaqui |
| 2025-01-26 03:38:31 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-01-26 03:39:16 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 03:43:06 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 03:45:10 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 03:50:04 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 04:00:57 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 04:02:05 +0100 | ezzieyguywuf | (~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf) ezzieyguywuf |
| 2025-01-26 04:05:02 +0100 | op_4 | (~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-01-26 04:05:33 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 04:05:33 +0100 | op_4 | (~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473) op_4 |
| 2025-01-26 04:09:20 +0100 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-01-26 04:09:36 +0100 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) califx |
| 2025-01-26 04:16:45 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 04:19:43 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-01-26 04:21:18 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 04:22:00 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 04:24:01 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 04:26:44 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 04:30:37 +0100 | mhatta | (~mhatta@www21123ui.sakura.ne.jp) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-01-26 04:32:28 +0100 | mhatta | (~mhatta@www21123ui.sakura.ne.jp) |
| 2025-01-26 04:37:42 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 04:44:33 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 04:51:52 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) tabaqui |
| 2025-01-26 04:56:00 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 05:00:51 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 05:01:25 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 05:03:02 +0100 | tabaqui1 | (~root@87.200.129.102) tabaqui |
| 2025-01-26 05:03:18 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) (Quit: WeeChat 4.4.3) |
| 2025-01-26 05:06:06 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 05:06:58 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 2025-01-26 05:08:09 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-01-26 05:10:14 +0100 | pointlessslippe1 | (~pointless@62.106.85.17) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-26 05:11:25 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 05:12:34 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 05:14:15 +0100 | pointlessslippe1 | (~pointless@62.106.85.17) pointlessslippe1 |
| 2025-01-26 05:17:06 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 05:22:06 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 05:22:32 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) tabaqui |
| 2025-01-26 05:22:34 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-01-26 05:24:45 +0100 | Midjak | (~MarciZ@82.66.147.146) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) |
| 2025-01-26 05:30:07 +0100 | aforemny_ | (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6ce1:cf00:b6f1:625c:54b4:a44b) aforemny |
| 2025-01-26 05:31:15 +0100 | aforemny | (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cc1:a100:8787:3cb3:35e4:a6f8) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 05:32:54 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 05:37:50 +0100 | aaronv | (~aaronv@user/aaronv) aaronv |
| 2025-01-26 05:37:55 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) tabaqui |
| 2025-01-26 05:38:58 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 05:41:43 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-01-26 05:48:04 +0100 | tabaqui | (~root@167.71.80.236) tabaqui |
| 2025-01-26 05:49:49 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 05:52:54 +0100 | tabaqui1 | (~root@87.200.129.102) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 05:54:44 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 05:57:13 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-01-26 05:59:33 +0100 | hiredman | (~hiredman@frontier1.downey.family) hiredman |
| 2025-01-26 06:00:15 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 2025-01-26 06:01:27 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2025-01-26 06:01:51 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 06:04:38 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 06:05:17 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 06:09:33 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
| 2025-01-26 06:10:08 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 06:10:54 +0100 | tabaqui1 | (~root@87.200.129.102) tabaqui |
| 2025-01-26 06:12:48 +0100 | Guest2 | (~Guest2@78.135.8.93) |
| 2025-01-26 06:15:16 +0100 | tabaqui1 | (~root@87.200.129.102) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 06:19:31 +0100 | <Guest2> | #haskell-ghcup says try here as well, please let me know if this is off-topic ... |
| 2025-01-26 06:19:32 +0100 | <Guest2> | ... following the instructions to install ghcup on linux with the given `curl` command. |
| 2025-01-26 06:19:32 +0100 | <Guest2> | It seems there is a problem with versions *suggestion 3. also did not work) and that something is hard-coding `/home/xxx` instead of using `$HOME`. |
| 2025-01-26 06:19:33 +0100 | <Guest2> | ``` |
| 2025-01-26 06:19:33 +0100 | <Guest2> | [ Warn ] [GHCup-00110] ghc-9.4.8 is already installed; if you really want to reinstall it, you may want to run 'ghcup install ghc --force 9.4.8' |
| 2025-01-26 06:19:34 +0100 | <Guest2> | [ Warn ] GHC-9.4.8 appears to have no corresponding HLS-2.0.0.1 binary. |
| 2025-01-26 06:19:34 +0100 | <Guest2> | [ ... ] Haskell IDE support may not work. |
| 2025-01-26 06:19:35 +0100 | <Guest2> | [ ... ] You can try to either: |
| 2025-01-26 06:19:35 +0100 | <Guest2> | [ ... ] 1. Install a different HLS version (e.g. downgrade for older GHCs) |
| 2025-01-26 06:19:36 +0100 | <Guest2> | [ ... ] 2. Install and set one of the following GHCs: [9.6.2, 9.4.5, 9.2.8, 9.2.7, 9.0.2, 8.10.7] |
| 2025-01-26 06:19:36 +0100 | <Guest2> | [ ... ] 3. Let GHCup compile HLS for you, e.g. run: ghcup compile hls -g 2.0.0.1 --ghc 9.4.8 --cabal-update |
| 2025-01-26 06:19:37 +0100 | <Guest2> | [ ... ] (see https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/guide/#hls for more information) |
| 2025-01-26 06:19:37 +0100 | <Guest2> | [ Info ] GHC 9.4.8 successfully set as default version |
| 2025-01-26 06:19:38 +0100 | <Guest2> | [ Warn ] [GHCup-00110] cabal-3.12.1.0 is already installed; if you really want to reinstall it, you may want to run 'ghcup install cabal --force 3.12.1.0' |
| 2025-01-26 06:19:39 +0100 | <Guest2> | "cabal update --ignore-project" failed! |
| 2025-01-26 06:19:39 +0100 | <Guest2> | ``` |
| 2025-01-26 06:19:40 +0100 | <Guest2> | Is there, ideally, a simple, single line command I can run that will just do everything correctly (presumably something like the given curl command, but with some param for version and user home) rather than me absolutely naively trying to fix things piecemeal and inevitably spending hours making things worse before I even get as far as trying out |
| 2025-01-26 06:19:40 +0100 | <Guest2> | the language in some editor or VSCode? |
| 2025-01-26 06:20:15 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2025-01-26 06:21:05 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 06:21:06 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <bdub> What happens when you run ghcup tui |
| 2025-01-26 06:21:16 +0100 | <Guest2> | I'll try |
| 2025-01-26 06:21:56 +0100 | <Guest2> | should i just go with defaults again? |
| 2025-01-26 06:22:16 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2025-01-26 06:22:21 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <bdub> yeah unless your trying to do something with a specific version |
| 2025-01-26 06:22:38 +0100 | <Guest2> | no, anything that works will be fine |
| 2025-01-26 06:23:13 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <bdub> Your error shows ghc is already installed |
| 2025-01-26 06:23:29 +0100 | <Guest2> | it must have been installed on the first try of the curl command |
| 2025-01-26 06:23:36 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <bdub> I think so |
| 2025-01-26 06:24:05 +0100 | <Guest2> | but HLS fails, and the something seems to make assumptions about where the home directory is, which also fails |
| 2025-01-26 06:25:03 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <bdub> ahhh I see, I have seen that before but still never had issues working w/ Haskell |
| 2025-01-26 06:25:07 +0100 | <Guest2> | the tui seems have have gone further. Is there an easy way to test the full installation? |
| 2025-01-26 06:25:11 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <bdub> Maybe someone else has advice |
| 2025-01-26 06:25:46 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <bdub> The tui helps you manage different versions |
| 2025-01-26 06:25:48 +0100 | <Guest2> | this has already been helpful haskellbridge, thank you! |
| 2025-01-26 06:25:51 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <bdub> double green checkmarks = default |
| 2025-01-26 06:25:58 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-01-26 06:26:00 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <bdub> single green means installed but not set |
| 2025-01-26 06:26:29 +0100 | <Guest2> | is there a quick way to test if the HLS was installed? |
| 2025-01-26 06:27:02 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <bdub> What does the tui show, what versions of HLS |
| 2025-01-26 06:27:16 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <bdub> https://kf8nh.com/_heisenbridge/media/matrix.org/PkyTiZODspDgyALmTyNRPPpk/l_0MiJlemVo/image.png |
| 2025-01-26 06:27:44 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 06:32:16 +0100 | <Guest2> | does the tui update PATH, or shoudl I do that manually before starting up the editor/VSCode? |
| 2025-01-26 06:35:27 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <bdub> When you ran the installer it should have asked you a few questions, like append or prepend path etc |
| 2025-01-26 06:35:56 +0100 | <Guest2> | yes, it did, but tui did not |
| 2025-01-26 06:36:31 +0100 | <Guest2> | and I think the non-tui version broke before it got as far as editing .bashrc |
| 2025-01-26 06:36:50 +0100 | <Guest2> | I am not even sure ,bashrc is the right place on fedora |
| 2025-01-26 06:38:22 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <bdub> I am unfamiliar w/ Fedora :( |
| 2025-01-26 06:39:07 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 06:40:24 +0100 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@108.192.66.114) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 06:43:54 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 06:44:03 +0100 | <Guest2> | I manually added to the PATH. And it seems to be getting further in VSCode but it is looking for stuff in `/home/...` and that is not where my user home is. |
| 2025-01-26 06:44:03 +0100 | <Guest2> | ``` |
| 2025-01-26 06:44:04 +0100 | <Guest2> | ghc --numeric-version |
| 2025-01-26 06:44:04 +0100 | <Guest2> | .../.ghcup/bin/ghc: line 10: /home/xxx/.ghcup/ghc/9.4.8/lib/ghc-9.4.8/bin/./ghc-9.4.8: No such file or directory |
| 2025-01-26 06:44:05 +0100 | <Guest2> | ``` |
| 2025-01-26 06:44:51 +0100 | <Guest2> | seems the home directory is hard-coded somewhere, instead of using $HOME |
| 2025-01-26 06:46:12 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 06:46:36 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-01-26 06:48:33 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 2025-01-26 06:50:27 +0100 | aaronv | (~aaronv@user/aaronv) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 06:50:36 +0100 | <Guest2> | yes... the ghc script has `/home/xxx` hard-coded everywhere. And the hls script ... probablyu ghcup created those scripts and hard-coded it everywhere |
| 2025-01-26 06:50:50 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 06:50:50 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 06:52:54 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 07:01:53 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 07:02:48 +0100 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty |
| 2025-01-26 07:03:18 +0100 | tnt1 | (~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 07:03:25 +0100 | tnt2 | (~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1 |
| 2025-01-26 07:04:46 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> does anyone know of any repo written in koka? |
| 2025-01-26 07:05:43 +0100 | tnt2 | tnt1 |
| 2025-01-26 07:06:45 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 07:07:07 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <bdub> Their page has libraries... |
| 2025-01-26 07:07:17 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 07:09:11 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> bdub: can't seem to find whether they're in haskell or in koka |
| 2025-01-26 07:10:20 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> ah their main repo has samples |
| 2025-01-26 07:12:42 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 07:12:53 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> ah. github mislabeled their libraries repo C code lol |
| 2025-01-26 07:12:56 +0100 | JuanDaugherty | ColinRobinson |
| 2025-01-26 07:23:02 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 07:27:52 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 07:35:20 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-01-26 07:38:49 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 07:40:00 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 07:41:15 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 2025-01-26 07:41:47 +0100 | alp | (~alp@2001:861:8ca0:4940:eb00:e50a:c19c:d6cb) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 07:43:37 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 07:45:23 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 07:54:38 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 07:55:56 +0100 | penteract | (~toby@blbn-12-b2-v4wan-167809-cust345.vm18.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 07:59:56 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 08:05:16 +0100 | remedan | (~remedan@ip-62-245-108-153.bb.vodafone.cz) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 08:09:08 +0100 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@108.192.66.114) |
| 2025-01-26 08:09:58 +0100 | ColinRobinson | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: praxis.meansofproduction.biz (juan@acm.org)) |
| 2025-01-26 08:11:37 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 08:16:39 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Hmmm I think I'm close to finding a solution to whether a type alias should be expanded or not in System F omega |
| 2025-01-26 08:17:34 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> I want nice error messages without size blowups but I also want it to expand type synonyms to typecheck properly when it's sound to do so |
| 2025-01-26 08:18:27 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 08:19:11 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> The keys seem to be glued evaluation (see: Kovacs elaboration-zoo and smalltt) and positivity (as in, the positive/negative position of a folded type application) |
| 2025-01-26 08:22:10 +0100 | son0p | (~ff@2800:e6:4001:6cc3:2e2c:4b4e:bc2a:6f17) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 08:23:44 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-01-26 08:26:21 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Nvm positivity doesn't do anything here, I just have to play more with glued evaluation |
| 2025-01-26 08:26:43 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@77.23.250.232) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 08:27:04 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-132-167.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2025-01-26 08:27:49 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 08:28:35 +0100 | xdminsy | (~xdminsy@117.147.71.143) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2025-01-26 08:29:36 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 08:34:24 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 08:36:57 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-132-167.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-26 08:37:15 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d17fae8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2025-01-26 08:42:00 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d17fae8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-26 08:42:09 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-132-167.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2025-01-26 08:42:31 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-132-167.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-26 08:42:49 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d17fae8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2025-01-26 08:45:53 +0100 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@108.192.66.114) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 08:46:05 +0100 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@108.192.66.114) |
| 2025-01-26 08:46:30 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 08:47:32 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 2025-01-26 08:50:45 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 08:52:03 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 09:00:01 +0100 | caconym | (~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye) |
| 2025-01-26 09:00:06 +0100 | tt12310978324354 | (~tt1231@2603:6010:8700:4a81:219f:50d3:618a:a6ee) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 2025-01-26 09:00:38 +0100 | caconym | (~caconym@user/caconym) caconym |
| 2025-01-26 09:02:18 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 09:04:08 +0100 | tt12310978324354 | (~tt1231@2603:6010:8700:4a81:219f:50d3:618a:a6ee) tt1231 |
| 2025-01-26 09:07:14 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 09:09:33 +0100 | alp | (~alp@2001:861:8ca0:4940:2a6c:ac90:3bd4:68c5) |
| 2025-01-26 09:12:48 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-01-26 09:16:53 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 09:18:07 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 09:18:16 +0100 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) |
| 2025-01-26 09:24:53 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 09:25:23 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d17fae8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-26 09:25:55 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d17fae8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2025-01-26 09:32:21 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d17fae8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-26 09:33:00 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d17fae8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2025-01-26 09:36:09 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 09:37:18 +0100 | tnt1 | (~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-01-26 09:41:07 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 09:46:40 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 2025-01-26 09:48:01 +0100 | qeez | (~qeez@2a00:1e88:1212:d400:b70f:1e29:cb76:d40d) |
| 2025-01-26 09:51:12 +0100 | p3n | (~p3n@2a00:19a0:3:7c:0:d9c6:7cf6:1) (Quit: ZNC 1.9.1 - https://znc.in) |
| 2025-01-26 09:51:48 +0100 | p3n | (~p3n@2a00:19a0:3:7c:0:d9c6:7cf6:1) p3n |
| 2025-01-26 09:51:53 +0100 | Smiles | (uid551636@id-551636.lymington.irccloud.com) Smiles |
| 2025-01-26 09:51:58 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 09:52:17 +0100 | sawilagar | (~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) sawilagar |
| 2025-01-26 09:53:15 +0100 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) ash3en |
| 2025-01-26 09:53:57 +0100 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-01-26 09:56:53 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 09:57:40 +0100 | qeez | (~qeez@2a00:1e88:1212:d400:b70f:1e29:cb76:d40d) (Quit: qeez) |
| 2025-01-26 10:02:12 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-01-26 10:06:34 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 10:07:44 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 10:12:12 +0100 | Xe_ | (~Xe@perl/impostor/xe) Xe |
| 2025-01-26 10:12:30 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 10:12:52 +0100 | Xe | (~Xe@perl/impostor/xe) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 10:13:47 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 10:17:33 +0100 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 10:18:44 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 10:21:09 +0100 | Sgeo_ | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo |
| 2025-01-26 10:21:23 +0100 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-26 10:25:09 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2025-01-26 10:29:24 +0100 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) |
| 2025-01-26 10:29:34 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 10:34:36 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 10:45:21 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 10:46:16 +0100 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a05:5800:220:c200:ca4b:d6ff:fec1:99da) CiaoSen |
| 2025-01-26 10:49:50 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 10:50:16 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 10:50:36 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-01-26 10:50:51 +0100 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life |
| 2025-01-26 10:52:27 +0100 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-01-26 10:54:04 +0100 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life |
| 2025-01-26 10:54:21 +0100 | eL_Bart0 | (eL_Bart0@dietunichtguten.org) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 10:55:39 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 10:58:09 +0100 | mceresa | (~mceresa@user/mceresa) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 11:01:09 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 11:02:36 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 11:04:00 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 2025-01-26 11:07:59 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 11:14:47 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 11:15:34 +0100 | econo_ | (uid147250@id-147250.tinside.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2025-01-26 11:19:58 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 11:22:00 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 11:30:58 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 11:36:12 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 11:36:21 +0100 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@108.192.66.114) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 11:39:20 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-01-26 11:44:24 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 11:46:46 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 11:50:41 +0100 | sand-witch | (~m-mzmz6l@vmi833741.contaboserver.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-01-26 11:51:33 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 11:52:19 +0100 | sand-witch | (~m-mzmz6l@vmi833741.contaboserver.net) |
| 2025-01-26 12:00:06 +0100 | tzh | (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2025-01-26 12:00:14 +0100 | qeez | (~qeez@2a00:1e88:1212:d400:b70f:1e29:cb76:d40d) |
| 2025-01-26 12:01:26 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah |
| 2025-01-26 12:02:15 +0100 | Square | (~Square@user/square) Square |
| 2025-01-26 12:02:31 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 12:07:20 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 12:09:36 +0100 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Tuplanolla |
| 2025-01-26 12:11:41 +0100 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f06ad17d46c2ab7a589.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk |
| 2025-01-26 12:12:44 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 12:15:46 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 12:21:48 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 12:27:43 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-01-26 12:32:02 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 12:33:36 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 12:38:25 +0100 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a05:5800:220:c200:ca4b:d6ff:fec1:99da) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 12:38:40 +0100 | sprotte24 | (~sprotte24@p200300d16f215000dd8de4b8036a1cf5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2025-01-26 12:40:29 +0100 | Guest2 | (~Guest2@78.135.8.93) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-01-26 12:40:44 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 12:41:02 +0100 | Guest2 | (~Guest2@78.135.8.93) |
| 2025-01-26 12:44:57 +0100 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) toonn |
| 2025-01-26 12:51:38 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 12:56:06 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 2025-01-26 12:56:13 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 13:00:23 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 13:01:43 +0100 | rvalue- | (~rvalue@user/rvalue) rvalue |
| 2025-01-26 13:02:23 +0100 | mrmr155334346318 | (~mrmr@user/mrmr) (Quit: Bye, See ya later!) |
| 2025-01-26 13:02:38 +0100 | rvalue | (~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 13:04:50 +0100 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@178.34.161.66) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 13:07:25 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 13:08:17 +0100 | rvalue- | rvalue |
| 2025-01-26 13:12:10 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 13:13:05 +0100 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@178.34.161.66) |
| 2025-01-26 13:13:57 +0100 | wootehfoot | (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) wootehfoot |
| 2025-01-26 13:16:09 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-01-26 13:16:51 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 13:16:57 +0100 | qeez | (~qeez@2a00:1e88:1212:d400:b70f:1e29:cb76:d40d) (Quit: qeez) |
| 2025-01-26 13:20:24 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 13:23:33 +0100 | mrmr155334346318 | (~mrmr@user/mrmr) mrmr |
| 2025-01-26 13:24:01 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 13:35:12 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 13:40:02 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 13:46:00 +0100 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f06ad17d46c2ab7a589.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 13:51:00 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 13:55:36 +0100 | sprotte24 | (~sprotte24@p200300d16f215000dd8de4b8036a1cf5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2025-01-26 13:55:48 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 13:57:48 +0100 | Sgeo_ | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-26 13:58:22 +0100 | Square | (~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 14:01:56 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 2025-01-26 14:02:35 +0100 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a05:5800:220:c200:ca4b:d6ff:fec1:99da) CiaoSen |
| 2025-01-26 14:02:52 +0100 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@108.192.66.114) |
| 2025-01-26 14:04:34 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-01-26 14:06:47 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 14:08:16 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 14:08:45 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 14:11:44 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 14:17:49 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 14:22:42 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 14:28:11 +0100 | notzmv | (~umar@user/notzmv) notzmv |
| 2025-01-26 14:35:40 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 14:36:12 +0100 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.201) |
| 2025-01-26 14:39:04 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d17fae8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 14:39:10 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 2025-01-26 14:40:06 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 14:40:43 +0100 | Smiles | (uid551636@id-551636.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2025-01-26 14:42:29 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-129-018.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2025-01-26 14:43:36 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 14:51:03 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 14:52:58 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-01-26 14:53:41 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-129-018.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-26 14:54:03 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@77.23.250.232) |
| 2025-01-26 14:55:47 +0100 | sprotte24 | (~sprotte24@p200300d16f215000dd8de4b8036a1cf5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2025-01-26 14:57:05 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 14:57:37 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 14:58:52 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@77.23.250.232) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-26 14:59:09 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 14:59:36 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d17fae8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2025-01-26 15:01:41 +0100 | homo | (~homo@user/homo) homo |
| 2025-01-26 15:04:01 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 15:05:24 +0100 | tnt1 | (~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1 |
| 2025-01-26 15:06:21 +0100 | Jackneill | (~Jackneill@217-197-185-114.pool.digikabel.hu) Jackneill |
| 2025-01-26 15:06:55 +0100 | alp | (~alp@2001:861:8ca0:4940:2a6c:ac90:3bd4:68c5) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 15:07:43 +0100 | Jackneill | (~Jackneill@217-197-185-114.pool.digikabel.hu) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-01-26 15:12:53 +0100 | homo | (~homo@user/homo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-01-26 15:13:04 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 2025-01-26 15:14:22 +0100 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 15:14:54 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 15:19:33 +0100 | simplystuart | (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 15:25:41 +0100 | monochrm | (trebla@216.138.220.146) |
| 2025-01-26 15:26:09 +0100 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty |
| 2025-01-26 15:27:17 +0100 | monochrom | (trebla@216.138.220.146) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 15:27:17 +0100 | monochrm | monochrom |
| 2025-01-26 15:27:27 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 15:30:17 +0100 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) ash3en |
| 2025-01-26 15:32:30 +0100 | JuanDaugherty | ColinRobinson |
| 2025-01-26 15:39:01 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 15:39:32 +0100 | homo | (~homo@user/homo) homo |
| 2025-01-26 15:40:43 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal |
| 2025-01-26 15:41:44 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-01-26 15:44:15 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 15:45:53 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 15:54:49 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 15:57:57 +0100 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a05:5800:220:c200:ca4b:d6ff:fec1:99da) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 15:59:44 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 16:04:49 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d17fae8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 16:05:57 +0100 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@108.192.66.114) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 16:06:16 +0100 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) |
| 2025-01-26 16:08:37 +0100 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 16:10:35 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 16:16:06 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 16:18:04 +0100 | <hellwolf> | is there any profound reason behind the differences between tupleT and tupE |
| 2025-01-26 16:18:10 +0100 | <hellwolf> | TH |
| 2025-01-26 16:18:31 +0100 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f062d978ac70c369d72.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk |
| 2025-01-26 16:19:50 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 16:20:12 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 16:22:07 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal |
| 2025-01-26 16:23:01 +0100 | <Leary> | hellwolf: I don't know about "profound", but I imagine it's related to TupleSections. |
| 2025-01-26 16:24:03 +0100 | <hellwolf> | hmm, okay; sounds plausible |
| 2025-01-26 16:24:07 +0100 | <hellwolf> | tupP too |
| 2025-01-26 16:24:24 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d17fae8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2025-01-26 16:25:57 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@87-94-148-3.rev.dnainternet.fi) fp |
| 2025-01-26 16:29:03 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 16:29:06 +0100 | ColinRobinson | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: praxis.meansofproduction.biz (juan@acm.org)) |
| 2025-01-26 16:30:48 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-01-26 16:30:54 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d17fae8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 16:35:17 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 16:35:19 +0100 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-003-039-232.176.3.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2025-01-26 16:35:49 +0100 | Square | (~Square@user/square) Square |
| 2025-01-26 16:36:35 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2025-01-26 16:38:46 +0100 | rynite | (~bwkam@user/rynite) rynite |
| 2025-01-26 16:40:32 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 16:45:18 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 16:45:30 +0100 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2025-01-26 16:45:53 +0100 | rynite | (~bwkam@user/rynite) (Quit: WeeChat 4.4.1) |
| 2025-01-26 16:49:36 +0100 | TheCoffeMaker | (~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) TheCoffeMaker |
| 2025-01-26 16:51:21 +0100 | rynite | (~bwkam@user/rynite) rynite |
| 2025-01-26 16:56:17 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 17:01:19 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 17:02:36 +0100 | ash3en | (~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) ash3en |
| 2025-01-26 17:06:03 +0100 | dsrt^ | (~dsrt@108.192.66.114) |
| 2025-01-26 17:12:05 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 17:13:26 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@87-94-148-3.rev.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 17:17:13 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 17:19:31 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) alfiee |
| 2025-01-26 17:20:48 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn |
| 2025-01-26 17:21:53 +0100 | Guest2 | (~Guest2@78.135.8.93) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-01-26 17:23:42 +0100 | alfiee | (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 17:25:53 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 17:29:34 +0100 | hellwolf | (~user@6d8d-4b75-5649-c595-0f00-4d40-07d0-2001.sta.estpak.ee) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-01-26 17:31:47 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@87-94-148-3.rev.dnainternet.fi) fp |
