2025/01/14

2025-01-14 00:01:08 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
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2025-01-14 00:03:51 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-01-14 00:05:35 +0100alecs(~alecs@61.pool85-58-154.dynamic.orange.es) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-01-14 00:06:34 +0100Square(~Square@user/square) Square
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2025-01-14 00:13:06 +0100Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo
2025-01-14 00:14:35 +0100mange(~user@user/mange) mange
2025-01-14 00:14:42 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2025-01-14 00:16:03 +0100acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f35081469c6fc5c461d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2025-01-14 00:19:04 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-01-14 00:24:52 +0100 <haskellbridge> <Bowuigi> I find interesting the way you propose filter to be implemented, but no clue about the rest of the talk. A blog would help yeah
2025-01-14 00:25:48 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-133-150.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-01-14 00:26:31 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d17fae8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2025-01-14 00:30:04 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
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2025-01-14 00:45:26 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
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2025-01-14 00:51:31 +0100JuanDaugherty(~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: JuanDaugherty)
2025-01-14 00:51:46 +0100__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2025-01-14 01:00:48 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
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2025-01-14 01:31:17 +0100acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f35081469c6fc5c461d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-01-14 01:33:58 +0100rini(~rini@user/rini) rini
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2025-01-14 01:42:11 +0100Jeanne-Kamikaze(~Jeanne-Ka@static-198-54-134-103.cust.tzulo.com) Jeanne-Kamikaze
2025-01-14 01:42:27 +0100Jeanne-Kamikaze(~Jeanne-Ka@static-198-54-134-103.cust.tzulo.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-01-14 01:42:52 +0100Jeanne-Kamikaze(~Jeanne-Ka@static-198-54-134-103.cust.tzulo.com) Jeanne-Kamikaze
2025-01-14 01:45:07 +0100swistak(~swistak@185.21.216.141)
2025-01-14 01:49:36 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
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2025-01-14 01:52:13 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d17fae8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2025-01-14 01:54:16 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2025-01-14 01:56:06 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d17fae8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2025-01-14 02:04:59 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2025-01-14 02:05:46 +0100stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-01-14 02:06:34 +0100stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) stiell
2025-01-14 02:08:46 +0100remedan(~remedan@ip-62-245-108-153.bb.vodafone.cz) (Quit: Bye!)
2025-01-14 02:09:48 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-01-14 02:13:29 +0100remedan(~remedan@ip-62-245-108-153.bb.vodafone.cz) remedan
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2025-01-14 02:24:30 +0100Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
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2025-01-14 02:29:11 +0100remedan(~remedan@ip-62-245-108-153.bb.vodafone.cz) remedan
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2025-01-14 02:35:45 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
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2025-01-14 02:48:03 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp)
2025-01-14 02:51:54 +0100JamesMowery4395(~JamesMowe@ip68-228-212-232.ph.ph.cox.net) JamesMowery
2025-01-14 02:53:33 +0100JamesMowery439(~JamesMowe@ip68-228-212-232.ph.ph.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-01-14 02:53:33 +0100JamesMowery4395JamesMowery439
2025-01-14 02:53:48 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
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2025-01-14 03:00:09 +0100ryanbooker(uid4340@id-4340.hampstead.irccloud.com) ryanbooker
2025-01-14 03:01:29 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2025-01-14 03:09:10 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
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2025-01-14 03:22:18 +0100vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-01-14 03:23:55 +0100Jeanne-Kamikaze(~Jeanne-Ka@static-198-54-134-103.cust.tzulo.com) (Quit: Leaving)
2025-01-14 03:24:13 +0100vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal
2025-01-14 03:24:33 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
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2025-01-14 03:29:57 +0100rvalue(~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-01-14 03:30:18 +0100potatoespotatoes(~quassel@130.44.147.204)
2025-01-14 03:30:28 +0100rvalue(~rvalue@user/rvalue) rvalue
2025-01-14 03:33:18 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2025-01-14 03:37:34 +0100dmwit(~dmwit@pool-173-66-76-243.washdc.fios.verizon.net) dmwit
2025-01-14 03:39:09 +0100 <dmwit> I have foo.c. I'd like cabal to be in charge of creating foo.so and making foo.so available, perhaps through the Paths_mypackagename mechanism. Can I convince it to do that somehow? (Directly linking with foo.o or foo.a isn't enough, as I am going to fork a separate program that wants this .so to be available.)
2025-01-14 03:41:39 +0100vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-01-14 03:42:01 +0100weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2025-01-14 03:43:15 +0100vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal
2025-01-14 03:45:45 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2025-01-14 03:46:21 +0100potatoespotatoes(~quassel@130.44.147.204) (Changing host)
2025-01-14 03:46:21 +0100potatoespotatoes(~quassel@user/potatoespotatoes) potatoespotatoes
2025-01-14 03:47:02 +0100potatoespotatoes(~quassel@user/potatoespotatoes) (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2025-01-14 03:47:11 +0100 <geekosaur> https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/stable/cabal-package-description-file.html#foreign-libraries with an empty list of Haskell modules?
2025-01-14 03:47:16 +0100potatoespotatoes(~quassel@130.44.147.204)
2025-01-14 03:48:07 +0100potatoespotatoes(~quassel@130.44.147.204) (Changing host)
2025-01-14 03:48:07 +0100potatoespotatoes(~quassel@user/potatoespotatoes) potatoespotatoes
2025-01-14 03:50:27 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-01-14 03:51:39 +0100potatoespotatoes(~quassel@user/potatoespotatoes) (Client Quit)
2025-01-14 03:51:57 +0100potatoespotatoes(~quassel@user/potatoespotatoes) potatoespotatoes
2025-01-14 03:54:49 +0100 <dmwit> Interesting. That will probably add in a linker dependency on the Haskell runtime but that might not be a problem. Let me play with it, thanks for the suggestion.
2025-01-14 03:58:23 +0100Guest5(~Guest29@2403-5805-c700-0-f01e-fad9-5333-2933.ip6.aussiebb.net)
2025-01-14 04:01:07 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2025-01-14 04:02:37 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-01-14 04:03:33 +0100 <Guest5> Hi, I’ve messed up my setup, which means no xmonad and no GUI. While updating, the Haskell packages didn’t want to update so I uninstalled them to reinstall them, but now they all fail (other than GHC) with “cannot satisfy -package gtk2hs-buildtools“. I tried “emerge —oneshot —nodeps gtk2hs-buildtools” but that failed with the same
2025-01-14 04:03:34 +0100 <Guest5> error. I’d send a paste but I don’t have xmonad so I don’t have a GUI anymore
2025-01-14 04:04:06 +0100swistak(~swistak@185.21.216.141) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-01-14 04:05:32 +0100 <dmwit> What tool are you using to install/uninstall packages? What does ghc-pkg list gtk2hs-buildtools say?
2025-01-14 04:05:37 +0100 <Guest5> Of course haskell-updater didn’t work, I’m pretty sure it didn’t even try to build any packages
2025-01-14 04:06:24 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-01-14 04:07:06 +0100 <Guest5> ghc-pkg list gtk2hs-buildtools says “no packages”, with the conf file being inside ~/.ghcup, which I didn’t know I had installed (maybe stack did that)
2025-01-14 04:07:16 +0100potatoespotatoes(~quassel@user/potatoespotatoes) ()
2025-01-14 04:07:44 +0100 <Guest5> And to install packages system wide I use emerge, and I use stack or cabal per-project
2025-01-14 04:08:14 +0100 <dmwit> Is it possible that emerge and stack/cabal are choosing different GHC versions/installations?
2025-01-14 04:08:30 +0100potatoespotatoes(~quassel@130.44.147.204)
2025-01-14 04:08:30 +0100potatoespotatoes(~quassel@130.44.147.204) (Changing host)
2025-01-14 04:08:30 +0100potatoespotatoes(~quassel@user/potatoespotatoes) potatoespotatoes
2025-01-14 04:09:24 +0100 <Guest5> It is, I will uninstall GHC with emerge and see if there’s another system-wide one for Cabal hiding somewhere
2025-01-14 04:09:49 +0100 <dmwit> ghcup tui will show you what's happening in ~/.ghcup for what it's worth
2025-01-14 04:09:57 +0100Guest5(~Guest29@2403-5805-c700-0-f01e-fad9-5333-2933.ip6.aussiebb.net) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-01-14 04:10:01 +0100vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (*.net *.split)
2025-01-14 04:10:01 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d17fae8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (*.net *.split)
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2025-01-14 04:10:01 +0100OftenFaded(~OftenFade@user/tisktisk) (*.net *.split)
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2025-01-14 04:14:33 +0100Guest57(~Guest29@2403-5805-c700-0-f01e-fad9-5333-2933.ip6.aussiebb.net)
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100vanishingideal(~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d17fae8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100notzmv(~umar@user/notzmv) notzmv
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100avidseeker(av@user/avidseeker) avidseeker
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100OftenFaded(~OftenFade@user/tisktisk) OftenFaded
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100Sciencentistguy(~sciencent@hacksoc/ordinary-member) sciencentistguy
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100terrorjack45(~terrorjac@2a01:4f8:c17:a66e::) terrorjack
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100img(~img@user/img) img
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100op_4(~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473) op_4
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100petrichor(~znc-user@user/petrichor) petrichor
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100Me-me(~me-me@user/me-me) Me-me
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100tomboy64(~tomboy64@user/tomboy64) tomboy64
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100YuutaW(~YuutaW@2404:f4c0:f9c3:502::100:17b7) YuutaW
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100haritz(~hrtz@user/haritz) haritz
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100zero(~z@user/zero) zero
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100migas9778(~migas@static.140.65.63.178.clients.your-server.de) migas
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100jrm(~jrm@user/jrm) jrm
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100tessier(~tessier@ec2-184-72-149-67.compute-1.amazonaws.com) tessier
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100stilgart(~Christoph@chezlefab.net) stilgart
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100GdeVolpiano(~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) GdeVolpiano
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100nshepperd2(~nshepperd@2a01:4f9:3b:4cc9::2) nshepperd
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100nadja(~dequbed@banana-new.kilobyte22.de) dequbed
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100foul_owl(~kerry@185.203.219.80) foul_owl
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100nurupo(~nurupo.ga@user/nurupo) nurupo
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100meinside(uid24933@id-24933.helmsley.irccloud.com) meinside
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100_d0t(~{-d0t-}@user/-d0t-/x-7915216) {-d0t-}
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100zlqrvx(~zlqrvx@user/zlqrvx) zlqrvx
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100ycp(~znc@user/dragestil) dragestil
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100jathan(~jathan@69.61.93.38) jathan
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100sprout(~sprout@84-80-106-227.fixed.kpn.net) sprout
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100Ekho(~Ekho@user/ekho) Ekho
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100Ranhir(~Ranhir@157.97.53.139) Ranhir
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100bliminse(~bliminse@user/bliminse) bliminse
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100tdammers(~tdammers@110-136-178-143.ftth.glasoperator.nl) tdammers
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100mzg(mzg@abusers.hu)
2025-01-14 04:15:03 +0100Goodbye_Vincent1(cyvahl@freakshells.net) Goodbye_Vincent
2025-01-14 04:15:04 +0100img(~img@user/img) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2025-01-14 04:15:18 +0100 <Guest57> I got disconnected, did anyone say anything after 14:09? I am Guest5
2025-01-14 04:15:18 +0100img(~img@user/img) img
2025-01-14 04:16:36 +0100 <Guest57> Well, [current-hour]:09
2025-01-14 04:17:11 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2025-01-14 04:20:05 +0100 <geekosaur> nope
2025-01-14 04:22:57 +0100 <dmwit> I told you that ghcup tui would tell you about what ghcup knows.
2025-01-14 04:23:07 +0100 <dmwit> Not sure whether that was after :09 or not.
2025-01-14 04:24:14 +0100 <dmwit> geekosaur: So I can see that foreign-library results in a library being built into dist-newstyle, but I'm not sure how I'm meant to access that library('s directory) from within my application. At the very least cabal hasn't added the directory to any environment variables.
2025-01-14 04:24:19 +0100swistak(~swistak@185.21.216.141)
2025-01-14 04:24:22 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-01-14 04:24:38 +0100 <Guest57> ghcup tui says I have an install of stack, cabal, and 10 GHC versions
2025-01-14 04:25:00 +0100 <dmwit> scary =P
2025-01-14 04:25:17 +0100 <geekosaur> does it actually say they're installed, or just available?
2025-01-14 04:25:46 +0100 <Guest57> Systemwide version is 9.8.2 and ghcup version is 9.4.8. I tried downgrading but didn’t work
2025-01-14 04:26:01 +0100 <Guest57> Well, they don’t say anything, they’re just green
2025-01-14 04:26:39 +0100 <geekosaur> ghcup won't know about the system-wide version, and having both will lead to confusion at best and brokenness at worst
2025-01-14 04:26:42 +0100 <geekosaur> pick one
2025-01-14 04:27:00 +0100 <Guest57> If two greens mean installed, then only GHC 9.4.8 is installed, along with stack and cabal
2025-01-14 04:27:22 +0100 <geekosaur> two green checkmarks means it's the default
2025-01-14 04:27:28 +0100 <dmwit> Two green checks means default, one means installed, zero means available.
2025-01-14 04:27:33 +0100Everything(~Everythin@195.138.86.118) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-01-14 04:28:07 +0100 <geekosaur> dmwit, I don't really know what happens after it's built, that's probably a #hackage question
2025-01-14 04:28:21 +0100 <Guest57> Well, my problem is emerge failures, I don’t see how ghcup will affect those when I merge under root, which doesn’t have any of my local ghcup stuff in its path
2025-01-14 04:28:32 +0100 <dmwit> Wow. That is not a channel I would have guessed. Okay, thanks.
2025-01-14 04:28:43 +0100 <geekosaur> if you have a different ghc in your $PATH when you run emerge then things will get mixed up
2025-01-14 04:29:01 +0100 <geekosaur> decide whether you are using emerge or ghcup, and get rid of the one you're not using
2025-01-14 04:29:13 +0100 <dmwit> I wouldn't be too surprised if you have multiple versions installed even without considering what ghcup's done in $HOME
2025-01-14 04:29:13 +0100 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> I don't think so
2025-01-14 04:29:43 +0100 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> I'm pretty sure there's environment sanitization when emerge is run
2025-01-14 04:29:54 +0100 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> Especially since it's not run as the user
2025-01-14 04:31:26 +0100Guest57(~Guest29@2403-5805-c700-0-f01e-fad9-5333-2933.ip6.aussiebb.net) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-01-14 04:33:47 +0100hueso(~root@user/hueso) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2025-01-14 04:34:59 +0100Guest38(~Guest29@2403-5805-c700-0-f01e-fad9-5333-2933.ip6.aussiebb.net)
2025-01-14 04:35:13 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2025-01-14 04:36:35 +0100hueso(~root@user/hueso) hueso
2025-01-14 04:38:48 +0100peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2025-01-14 04:38:49 +0100 <dmwit> I mean I guess I don't really know what's going wrong. Perhaps you can find out a bit more about what emerge is doing with a --verbose or something?
2025-01-14 04:39:33 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-01-14 04:42:34 +0100 <Guest38> All the logs say the same thing, that is, gtk2hs-buildtools couldn’t be found by the inner cabal that emerge uses. Of course, because it isn’t installed yet. I reinstalled cabal to see if that would change anything, but no luck
2025-01-14 04:45:14 +0100 <dmwit> If you can find out what exact cabal command it's running, that might help explain why it believes it needs gtk2hs-buildtools.
2025-01-14 04:45:36 +0100 <dmwit> That's a very unusual dependency, it should only be needed when installing things that depend on gtk2hs, which are bindings to a GUI library.
2025-01-14 04:46:26 +0100 <dmwit> ...although if emerge and your shell are choosing different GHC versions, then the ghc-pkg command I suggested earlier will need to be tweaked. Can you try it again as root? ghc-pkg list gtk2hs-buildtools
2025-01-14 04:46:54 +0100 <dmwit> (One hypothesis is that GHC's package database is broken; if it were, this might reveal that.)
2025-01-14 04:47:44 +0100 <dmwit> (root or whatever user emerge runs as, I guess)
2025-01-14 04:50:35 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2025-01-14 04:55:19 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2025-01-14 04:57:01 +0100avidseeker(av@user/avidseeker) ()
2025-01-14 04:59:45 +0100avidseeker(av@user/avidseeker) avidseeker
2025-01-14 05:01:15 +0100 <Guest38> ‘ghc-pkg list’ with no package argument gives what looks like standard libraries such as base, binary, template-Haskell, parsec, mtl, and Cabal. There are more but I am on my phone so don’t want to type them out
2025-01-14 05:02:35 +0100 <dmwit> If none of them say "broken" afterwards then that hypothesis is out.
2025-01-14 05:02:47 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2025-01-14 05:03:17 +0100 <dmwit> At this point without the exact cabal command I don't think there's much folks here can do for you.
2025-01-14 05:03:50 +0100 <Guest38> The command turned out to not be cabal, it was just ghc -hide-all-packages -package Cabal -package array … -package xhtml -package gtk2hs-buildtools —make …
2025-01-14 05:04:43 +0100 <Guest38> The only packages listed here not in my ghc-pkg list are gtk2hs-buildtools and xhtml
2025-01-14 05:04:57 +0100 <dmwit> Okay. What tool crafted this command line?
2025-01-14 05:05:31 +0100 <Guest38> Never mind, xhtml is in the command line
2025-01-14 05:05:47 +0100saulosilva(~saulosilv@2804:14c:b525:8032:5d21:a3da:d197:21e9) saulosilva
2025-01-14 05:06:34 +0100 <Guest38> Probably cabal. I’m seeing this in the emerge build.log after “Using cabal-3.8.2.0” inside “configuring source…”
2025-01-14 05:06:50 +0100 <Guest38> It’s making Setup.lhs
2025-01-14 05:07:03 +0100 <dmwit> ...so like I said: we need the exact cabal command.
2025-01-14 05:07:45 +0100 <saulosilva> Hello
2025-01-14 05:07:52 +0100Guest38(~Guest29@2403-5805-c700-0-f01e-fad9-5333-2933.ip6.aussiebb.net) (Quit: Client closed)
2025-01-14 05:08:32 +0100 <saulosilva> What resources should i check out first regarding functional paradigm?
2025-01-14 05:08:33 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-01-14 05:10:25 +0100Guest79(~Guest29@2403-5805-c700-0-f01e-fad9-5333-2933.ip6.aussiebb.net)
2025-01-14 05:10:55 +0100 <dmwit> The Haskell wiki has a long list of tutorials, and some guidance on how to pick one.
2025-01-14 05:11:14 +0100 <dmwit> https://wiki.haskell.org/index.php?title=Tutorials
2025-01-14 05:11:16 +0100 <Guest79> Ah, I just realized I’m in #haskell rather than #haskell-gentoo. No wonder things weren’t adding up. Sorry dmwit and all, I’ll move this over there
2025-01-14 05:13:17 +0100Guest79(~Guest29@2403-5805-c700-0-f01e-fad9-5333-2933.ip6.aussiebb.net) (Client Quit)
2025-01-14 05:13:30 +0100swistak(~swistak@185.21.216.141) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025-01-14 05:19:27 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2025-01-14 05:19:57 +0100bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) bitdex
2025-01-14 05:24:02 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2025-01-14 05:31:14 +0100 <Axman6> I think the System-F FP course does a good job of introducing functional programming in general (particularly strongly typed, pure functional), but I may be a bit biased
2025-01-14 05:34:49 +0100merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
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2025-01-14 09:33:14 +0100tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
2025-01-14 09:41:21 +0100kuribas(~user@2a02:1808:80:3b72:47fa:cf83:67e6:7339) kuribas
2025-01-14 09:41:53 +0100eL_Bart0(eL_Bart0@dietunichtguten.org)
2025-01-14 09:44:06 +0100 <kuribas> It is possible to represent a lambda using ski combinators. Could you use this to represent a polytype (forall a. ...)?
2025-01-14 09:44:58 +0100 <kuribas> This way you could avoid variable substitution.
2025-01-14 09:48:00 +0100 <kuribas> "forall a.a" would be I, "forall a. a -> a" would be "S (->) I"
2025-01-14 09:48:20 +0100chele(~chele@user/chele) chele
2025-01-14 09:49:28 +0100 <haskellbridge> <Bowuigi> Those definitions wouldn't work
2025-01-14 09:49:54 +0100CiaoSen(~Jura@2a05:5800:2eb:a800:ca4b:d6ff:fec1:99da) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-01-14 09:50:21 +0100 <haskellbridge> <Bowuigi> But type level SKI with (->) and a forall function definitely would (tho you need type lambdas)
2025-01-14 09:50:59 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2025-01-14 09:51:51 +0100 <haskellbridge> <Bowuigi> This forall function, of kind "(k -> *) -> *", would be used like "forall (\a -> a -> a)"
2025-01-14 09:51:58 +0100 <probie> Isn't "forall" the type level lambda?
2025-01-14 09:52:39 +0100 <haskellbridge> <Bowuigi> No, forall is a quantifier, not a lambda
2025-01-14 09:53:15 +0100 <haskellbridge> <Bowuigi> It can't be applied at the type level, but rather at the term level with a type application
2025-01-14 09:54:45 +0100swistak(~swistak@185.21.216.141) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2025-01-14 09:54:46 +0100 <haskellbridge> <Bowuigi> Either way, this type-level SKI system is somewhat impractical, so nowadays it's better to use Normalization-by-Evaluation instead, which is likely faster
2025-01-14 09:54:52 +0100 <kuribas> forall is kind of a type level lambda
2025-01-14 09:55:46 +0100 <kuribas> It's just applied implicitly when using HM inference.
2025-01-14 09:56:54 +0100 <haskellbridge> <Bowuigi> It's a binder, like a lambda, but it can't be applied at the type level like a type lambda
2025-01-14 09:57:28 +0100 <haskellbridge> <Bowuigi> Here, binder means "brings a new variable into scope"
2025-01-14 09:59:28 +0100 <haskellbridge> <Bowuigi> HM can infer type applications, which occur at the term level and instance foralls at the type level. Type level application works directly at the type level, no terms are involved
2025-01-14 10:00:03 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2025-01-14 10:00:49 +0100 <probie> I think Bowuigi is right. If I have a function `Λα.λ(x:α).x` it has type `forall α. α -> α`. The `forall` isn't any kind of lambda, it just "lines up" with them. If it was a lambda, you'd be able to apply it, but I can't say `(forall a . Maybe a) Int` to mean `Maybe Int`
2025-01-14 10:01:02 +0100swistak(~swistak@185.21.216.141)
2025-01-14 10:01:18 +0100merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025-01-14 10:01:18 +0100kuribas(~user@2a02:1808:80:3b72:47fa:cf83:67e6:7339) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2025-01-14 10:01:39 +0100 <tomsmeding> I think kuribas (who left) was talking about applying them on the type level, not on the value level
2025-01-14 10:02:15 +0100 <tomsmeding> and you can, to a certain extent -- only if the forall is on a newtype
2025-01-14 10:02:22 +0100 <tomsmeding> % type I = forall a. a -> a
2025-01-14 10:02:22 +0100 <yahb2> <no output>
2025-01-14 10:02:29 +0100 <tomsmeding> % :k I @Int
2025-01-14 10:02:29 +0100 <yahb2> <interactive>:1:1: error: [GHC-20967] ; • Cannot apply function of kind ‘*’ ; to visible kind argument ‘Int’ ; • In the type ‘I @Int’
2025-01-14 10:03:12 +0100 <haskellbridge> <Bowuigi> Yeah mixing foralls and type level lambdas happens sometimes
2025-01-14 10:03:39 +0100 <tomsmeding> well sometimes it looks like you _can_ apply them with TypeApplications
2025-01-14 10:03:43 +0100 <tomsmeding> just not in enough cases for this to work
2025-01-14 10:03:57 +0100gorignak(~gorignak@user/gorignak) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2025-01-14 10:04:26 +0100 <tomsmeding> % :t map
2025-01-14 10:04:26 +0100 <yahb2> map :: forall a b. (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]
2025-01-14 10:04:31 +0100 <tomsmeding> % :t map @Int
2025-01-14 10:04:31 +0100 <yahb2> map @Int :: forall b. (Int -> b) -> [Int] -> [b]
2025-01-14 10:04:36 +0100 <tomsmeding> I just applied a forall
2025-01-14 10:04:41 +0100 <tomsmeding> kinda
2025-01-14 10:04:41 +0100 <haskellbridge> <Bowuigi> "type I = forall (a :: k). ()" should work tho, because you are instancing the k
2025-01-14 10:05:02 +0100gorignak(~gorignak@user/gorignak) gorignak
2025-01-14 10:05:03 +0100 <tomsmeding> % type I = forall (a :: k). ()
2025-01-14 10:05:03 +0100 <yahb2> <interactive>:19:23: error: [GHC-76037] ; Not in scope: type variable ‘k’
2025-01-14 10:05:06 +0100 <tomsmeding> % :set -XPolyKinds
2025-01-14 10:05:06 +0100 <yahb2> <no output>
2025-01-14 10:05:08 +0100 <tomsmeding> % type I = forall (a :: k). ()
2025-01-14 10:05:08 +0100 <yahb2> <interactive>:23:23: error: [GHC-76037] ; Not in scope: type variable ‘k’
2025-01-14 10:05:13 +0100 <tomsmeding> % type I = forall k (a :: k). ()
2025-01-14 10:05:13 +0100 <yahb2> <no output>
2025-01-14 10:05:15 +0100 <tomsmeding> and then?
2025-01-14 10:05:22 +0100 <tomsmeding> % :k I @Int
2025-01-14 10:05:22 +0100 <yahb2> <interactive>:1:1: error: [GHC-20967] ; • Cannot apply function of kind ‘*’ ; to visible kind argument ‘Int’ ; • In the type ‘I @Int’
2025-01-14 10:05:28 +0100acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f533582140b26ca98c6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2025-01-14 10:05:47 +0100acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f539c942177b6544d5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2025-01-14 10:06:08 +0100 <haskellbridge> <Bowuigi> Uhhh what
2025-01-14 10:06:54 +0100 <tomsmeding> is this TypeInType biting us?