2024/11/14

2024-11-14 00:01:51 +0100falafel(~falafel@2600:1700:99f4:2050:41b3:d17e:817a:4e83) falafel
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2024-11-14 00:47:47 +0100 <jackdk> I want to provide a type family-shaped helper that identifies the type of a record field, something like `FieldType "foo" MyRecord` reducing to `Bar`. I can get at the type of a field by looking at the fundep on the `HasField` class (GHC gives me in `instance HasField "foo" MyRecord Bar`, but is there a good idiom for binding and returning that type variable using a type family?
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2024-11-14 00:51:04 +0100 <Axman6> This feels like it might be easier with generics-sop, but it's been a long time since I looked at any of these things
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2024-11-14 01:10:17 +0100alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-3117-f07c-987b-fc29-77ee-addd.rev.sfr.net) alexherbo2
2024-11-14 01:11:02 +0100 <Leary> jackdk: I doubt there's anything like an 'idiom' for this. Does `class HasField f r (Field f r) => HasFieldF f r where { type Field f r }; instance HasField f r t => HasFieldF f r where { type Field f r = t }` work?
2024-11-14 01:14:53 +0100Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2024-11-14 01:16:38 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2024-11-14 01:17:43 +0100 <glguy> jackdk: You could do something like this: https://bpa.st/AYDQ
2024-11-14 01:18:38 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life
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2024-11-14 01:35:18 +0100 <jackdk> Leary: alas no: "The RHS of an associated type declaration mentions out-of-scope variable ‘t’ All such variables must be bound on the LHS"; glguy: Yeah, recursing through the `Rep` seems like the best bet. Thanks to you both.
2024-11-14 01:36:34 +0100MironZ3(~MironZ@nat-infra.ehlab.uk) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
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2024-11-14 01:43:55 +0100MironZ3(~MironZ@nat-infra.ehlab.uk)
2024-11-14 01:44:15 +0100ljdarj1(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
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2024-11-14 01:49:48 +0100 <jle`> does anybody know if there has been any updates on https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/9577 ? is there a good way to get haddock to do multiple sublibraries?
2024-11-14 01:50:03 +0100 <glguy> getting ready for aoc? ;-)
2024-11-14 01:51:19 +0100 <geekosaur> https://github.com/haskell/cabal/pull/9821 maybe?
2024-11-14 01:51:52 +0100 <jle`> glguy: heh how did you guess
2024-11-14 01:52:04 +0100 <jle`> i am merging all of my aoc libs into a single master cabal project
2024-11-14 01:52:14 +0100 <glguy> jle`: I can't think of any other reason to use multiple sublibraries ^_^
2024-11-14 01:52:38 +0100 <geekosaur> amazonka and recent HLS use them
2024-11-14 01:52:59 +0100 <geekosaur> HLS for all its plugins, amazonka for all its generated service packages
2024-11-14 01:53:06 +0100 <glguy> geekosaur: Maybe someone used those libraries to solve an aoc problem then
2024-11-14 01:53:09 +0100 <Leary> jle`: There's some discussion on it here: https://discourse.haskell.org/t/best-practices-for-public-cabal-sublibraries/10272
2024-11-14 01:53:26 +0100 <jle`> geekosaur: ah that does seem promising, do you know if it's in any cabal releases?
2024-11-14 01:54:06 +0100 <geekosaur> not yet but it should be in 3.14.1.0
2024-11-14 01:54:16 +0100 <geekosaur> which is due around when ghc 9.12.1 GA is
2024-11-14 01:54:32 +0100 <jle`> ooh, that's in a matter of days right?
2024-11-14 01:54:36 +0100 <geekosaur> the release process has already begun
2024-11-14 01:54:47 +0100 <jle`> woo hoo
2024-11-14 01:55:19 +0100 <jle`> rate of cabal improvements has been amazing
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2024-11-14 06:36:59 +0100Guest16(~Guest16@2401:4900:65c9:bca3:883d:d42c:cc19:7f95)
2024-11-14 06:37:48 +0100 <Guest16> hi
2024-11-14 06:37:56 +0100 <Guest16> Does anyone know why http://wiki.haskell.org/ is down
2024-11-14 06:39:54 +0100 <Axman6> There's been issues with the machine it runs on lately, which I believe are proving to be quite hard to fix. sm I think knows more (there's also #haskell-infrastructure)
2024-11-14 06:41:03 +0100 <probie> Guest16: https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2024-November/136929.html
2024-11-14 06:41:44 +0100 <Guest16> thank you
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2024-11-14 06:58:06 +0100takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2024-11-14 07:00:42 +0100 <haskellbridge> <sm> https://github.com/haskell/haskell-wiki-configuration/issues/43
2024-11-14 07:02:55 +0100misterfish(~misterfis@84.53.85.146) misterfish
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2024-11-14 11:58:53 +0100mari-estel(~mari-este@user/mari-estel) mari-estel
2024-11-14 12:00:01 +0100Smiles(uid551636@id-551636.lymington.irccloud.com) Smiles
2024-11-14 12:05:29 +0100mari96334(~mari-este@user/mari-estel) mari-estel
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2024-11-14 12:07:05 +0100mari89179(~mari-este@user/mari-estel) mari-estel
2024-11-14 12:07:42 +0100mari-estel(~mari-este@user/mari-estel) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2024-11-14 12:22:06 +0100jero98772(~jero98772@190.158.28.32)
2024-11-14 12:26:32 +0100__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) toonn
2024-11-14 12:38:40 +0100mari-estel(~mari-este@user/mari-estel) mari-estel
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2024-11-14 12:42:19 +0100mari29333(~mari-este@user/mari-estel) mari-estel
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2024-11-14 12:43:53 +0100mari-estel(~mari-este@user/mari-estel) mari-estel
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2024-11-14 12:52:05 +0100pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) siracusa
2024-11-14 12:57:24 +0100 <hellwolf> Is "IOPhobia" pathological case? After decades of programming, I find pure joy in writing main part of the code that deals with zero IO. And only Haskell can guarantee that, to the extent that I am questioning if I am sick.
2024-11-14 12:58:54 +0100jero98772(~jero98772@190.158.28.32) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-11-14 13:00:04 +0100caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye)
2024-11-14 13:01:18 +0100 <Rembane> hellwolf: Nah, it's sound. Not having to deal with side effects makes code so much easier to write, read and test.
2024-11-14 13:02:11 +0100caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
2024-11-14 13:03:23 +0100 <hellwolf> I hesitate to make a connetion with germophobia, since I personally am an opposite of a germophobia.
2024-11-14 13:04:00 +0100 <Leary> hellwolf: Welcome to the oasis of sanity.
2024-11-14 13:04:09 +0100 <Rembane> Some germs are quite good to not be in contact with IMO
2024-11-14 13:05:28 +0100 <hellwolf> like unsafePerformIO?
2024-11-14 13:07:45 +0100acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e7283f73687bc11ede7922f8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-11-14 13:09:11 +0100misterfish(~misterfis@31-161-39-137.biz.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-14 13:09:23 +0100mari-estel(~mari-este@user/mari-estel) mari-estel
2024-11-14 13:13:49 +0100 <dminuoso> unsafePerformIO is indeed quite unsafe. :-)
2024-11-14 13:16:33 +0100hellwolflike when label is truth for to itself.
2024-11-14 13:17:57 +0100 <dminuoso> It was a simple case of something like `replicate n (unsafePerformIO (newIORef []))`, which GHC happily refactored into `let x = unsafePerformIO (newIORef []) in replicate n x`
2024-11-14 13:18:14 +0100housemate(~housemate@146.70.66.228) (Quit: "I saw it in a tiktok video and thought that it was the most smartest answer ever." ~ AnonOps Radio [some time some place] | I AM THE DERIVATIVE I AM GOING TANGENT TO THE CURVE!)
2024-11-14 13:18:15 +0100 <dminuoso> (In reality the code was far more sophisticated, so it was neither obvious how or why this happened)
2024-11-14 13:18:46 +0100 <dminuoso> I mean actually there was a `traverse_` in there too.
2024-11-14 13:19:48 +0100 <dminuoso> Yeah I think it was something like `unsafePerformIO (traverse_ (\_ -> newIORef []) xs)` and GHC successfully floated that IORef out
2024-11-14 13:20:06 +0100 <dminuoso> Ill have to dig through the commit history to find this one.
2024-11-14 13:20:14 +0100 <hellwolf> which code base?
2024-11-14 13:20:26 +0100 <dminuoso> An internal compiler of ours.
2024-11-14 13:20:32 +0100 <dminuoso> No, those examples I named are both wrong. Mmm.
2024-11-14 13:22:02 +0100 <dminuoso> hellwolf: Anyway, IO can still be a useful tool, especially if you want any kind of introspectability of whats going on (say logging or debugging)
2024-11-14 13:22:21 +0100 <dminuoso> Pure code is often cumbersome to debug
2024-11-14 13:22:42 +0100 <dminuoso> Consider something like GHC, where large portions work in IO
2024-11-14 13:23:59 +0100mari59415(~mari-este@user/mari-estel) mari-estel
2024-11-14 13:24:25 +0100arahael_(~arahael@user/arahael) (Quit: leaving)
2024-11-14 13:25:23 +0100arahael_(~arahael@user/arahael) arahael
2024-11-14 13:26:03 +0100mari-estel(~mari-este@user/mari-estel) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-11-14 13:26:39 +0100tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-11-14 13:27:19 +0100 <hellwolf> runTrace your_pure_fn your_trace_filters ...currying your_pure_fn_args...
2024-11-14 13:28:06 +0100 <dminuoso> What is `runTrace` supposed to be here?
2024-11-14 13:28:25 +0100 <hellwolf> that'd be my ideal way of trace into your pure fn in a principled way. I am entirely sure how feasible/difficult it could be; I did somethings that involve some aspects of such a thing.
2024-11-14 13:28:32 +0100misterfish(~misterfis@31-161-39-137.biz.kpn.net) misterfish
2024-11-14 13:28:48 +0100 <hellwolf> sorry, typed too slow. I meant to propose a hypothetical
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2024-11-14 13:31:51 +0100 <lortabac> "Pure code is often cumbersome to debug" *with GHC*
2024-11-14 13:32:28 +0100 <lortabac> I don't think we should see lack of observability as an intrinsic property of pure computations
2024-11-14 13:32:36 +0100haskellbridge(~hackager@syn-024-093-192-219.res.spectrum.com) hackager
2024-11-14 13:32:36 +0100ChanServ+v haskellbridge
2024-11-14 13:32:42 +0100 <mari59415> no mentions about pure code being amounts easier to test
2024-11-14 13:33:53 +0100 <hellwolf> But I find the habit of spending more time in thinking then examining into what happened is a better use of time. Of course, on the contrary, Linus, notoriously, promoted the idea of printf debugging. So I guess the tool influence on how you do troubleshooting.
2024-11-14 13:34:38 +0100 <hellwolf> exactly, mari59415, it is a problem most applicable to impure code. For pure code, you write properties (which means thinking a lot about what you are writing.)
2024-11-14 13:35:34 +0100mari-estel(~mari-este@user/mari-estel) mari-estel
2024-11-14 13:36:10 +0100 <hellwolf> fwiw, @dminuoso, I had a small example here https://discourse.haskell.org/t/variable-arity-currying-helper/10659 that decorates "let foo' = curry' (MkFn foo)" but that assumes all arguments is "showable". to make it runTrace, you'd need to have a default instance for all types, and then overlapping instance for Show, Num, Functor, etc.