2024/10/23

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2024-10-23 00:00:43 +0200spew(~spew@189.217.198.185) (Quit: spew)
2024-10-23 00:00:45 +0200 <geekosaur> I know `bracket` and friends don't work, but I think the lower level catchers do
2024-10-23 00:00:50 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-10-23 00:01:55 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Tuplanolla
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2024-10-23 03:19:11 +0200Square(~Square@user/square) Square
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2024-10-23 04:13:51 +0200dontdieych2(~a@user/dontdieych2) dontdieych2
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2024-10-23 04:16:20 +0200 <dontdieych2> Looking for something like ghci prompt theme. Prefer colorful and informative one. https://github.com/IlanCosman/tide/blob/assets/images/flexible.png
2024-10-23 04:16:28 +0200 <dontdieych2> Thanks for any sharing
2024-10-23 04:19:33 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2024-10-23 04:19:44 +0200 <Axman6> Have you looked at https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/ghci.html#ghci-cmd-:set%20prompt?
2024-10-23 04:23:12 +0200identity(~identity@user/ZharMeny) (Quit: ERC 5.6.0.30.1 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 30.0.91))
2024-10-23 04:29:08 +0200 <Axman6> Looks like :set prompt-function is particularly useful
2024-10-23 04:29:26 +0200 <geekosaur> I think they're looking for themes others have come up with, as opposed to how to write one from scratch?
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2024-10-23 05:02:46 +0200rosco(~rosco@60.53.7.10) rosco
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2024-10-23 05:15:17 +0200 <Axman6> I assume so too, but I've never seen anyone do anything more fancy than changing the prompt to a lambda and removing the loaded modules
2024-10-23 05:18:53 +0200alp(~alp@2001:861:e3d6:8f80:1068:2132:b192:21de)
2024-10-23 05:19:09 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-10-23 05:21:10 +0200 <Axman6> Knowing a thing or two about terminal colours would let you make pretty themes
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2024-10-23 05:33:01 +0200 <geekosaur> I've seen a few, but yeh what you mention is most common ime
2024-10-23 05:34:21 +0200 <geekosaur> I personally don't spend enough time in ghci to care; I just pop in to test something and then exit. (largely because it's usually `cabal repl` instead of raw ghci, in a project or with specific dependencies in scope)
2024-10-23 05:34:35 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
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2024-10-23 06:05:11 +0200 <dontdieych2> Axman6: geekosau: ok, should go for lambda mark. cannot find premade theme things.
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2024-10-23 06:32:05 +0200 <Axman6> you should go with whatever you like the look of, this is an aesthetic question, not a technical one
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2024-10-23 08:42:56 +0200synchromesh(~john@2406:5a00:24b4:a600:fd24:ba9f:475d:6a37) synchromesh
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2024-10-23 08:47:15 +0200synchromesh(~john@2406:5a00:24b4:a600:fd24:ba9f:475d:6a37) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2024-10-23 08:53:16 +0200 <dontdieych2> is there equivalent of `stack haddock` (that make index.html of all dependencies of current package) using `cabal`?
2024-10-23 08:53:51 +0200 <dontdieych2> ❯ du -sh ~/.cabal ~/.stack/
2024-10-23 08:53:53 +0200 <dontdieych2> 4.5G /home/a/.cabal
2024-10-23 08:53:54 +0200 <dontdieych2> 8.8G /home/a/.stack
2024-10-23 08:54:07 +0200 <dontdieych2> wanna remove ~/.stack
2024-10-23 08:54:32 +0200 <dontdieych2> only reason keep stack is `stack haddock`
2024-10-23 08:54:58 +0200 <sclv> you can add a haddock flag to your default cabal config and it will haddock every built library
2024-10-23 08:55:17 +0200 <sclv> it doesn’t provide an easy to browse global index iirc tho
2024-10-23 08:55:22 +0200 <dontdieych2> ye but I need top level index.html
2024-10-23 08:55:27 +0200 <dontdieych2> exactly
2024-10-23 08:55:45 +0200 <sclv> you can write your own script to generate that as a stopgap
2024-10-23 08:57:45 +0200 <dontdieych2> thanks
2024-10-23 09:00:00 +0200caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye)
2024-10-23 09:00:35 +0200caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
2024-10-23 09:02:23 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e72cfb33a5f4f8eeae667408.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk
2024-10-23 09:10:12 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2024-10-23 09:13:44 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> dontdieych2: you could clean up a bit
2024-10-23 09:14:06 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-138-197.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-10-23 09:14:40 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-129-237.176.6.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-10-23 09:14:45 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-23 09:15:19 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@178.115.35.86.wireless.dyn.drei.com) ubert
2024-10-23 09:16:48 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@2a05:5800:2d7:c100:ca4b:d6ff:fec1:99da) CiaoSen
2024-10-23 09:22:38 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2024-10-23 09:35:30 +0200sawilagar(~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) sawilagar
2024-10-23 09:40:03 +0200Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life
2024-10-23 09:40:48 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2024-10-23 09:42:59 +0200Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
2024-10-23 09:45:15 +0200gioyik(~gioyik@gateway/tor-sasl/gioyik) gioyik
2024-10-23 09:47:56 +0200 <tomsmeding> dontdieych2: https://github.com/treblacy/hasdoc
2024-10-23 09:50:40 +0200srazkvt(~sarah@user/srazkvt) srazkvt
2024-10-23 09:54:06 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-129-237.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-23 09:54:36 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@176.2.79.59)
2024-10-23 09:59:14 +0200gioyik(~gioyik@gateway/tor-sasl/gioyik) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-10-23 09:59:32 +0200 <famubu> Is there a way to find the space used
2024-10-23 09:59:37 +0200gioyik(~gioyik@gateway/tor-sasl/gioyik) gioyik
2024-10-23 09:59:40 +0200kuribas(~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) kuribas
2024-10-23 09:59:42 +0200 <famubu> needed to store a value in ahsekll?
2024-10-23 09:59:59 +0200 <famubu> I had been trying to use https://hackage.haskell.org/package/heapsize-0.3.0.1/docs/HeapSize.html#v:recursiveSize
2024-10-23 10:00:13 +0200 <famubu> But couldn't figure out how to print a value of `Heapsize Int`
2024-10-23 10:00:46 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> maybe https://hackage.haskell.org/package/weigh ?
2024-10-23 10:01:22 +0200 <c_wraith> famubu: why wouldn't you use closureSize?
2024-10-23 10:01:50 +0200 <c_wraith> Oh, because it's not recursive.
2024-10-23 10:01:52 +0200srazkvt(~sarah@user/srazkvt) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2024-10-23 10:02:06 +0200 <c_wraith> well, then, you'd have to use runHeapSize
2024-10-23 10:05:13 +0200kilolympus(~kilolympu@2a04:ee41:4:32b3:29d9:f88f:2e29:df95) (Quit: See you later! :))
2024-10-23 10:06:09 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d50-99-47-73.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2024-10-23 10:06:34 +0200 <dontdieych2> haskellbridge: how?
2024-10-23 10:06:45 +0200 <dontdieych2> tomsmeding: thanks, it's working properly
2024-10-23 10:07:11 +0200econo_(uid147250@id-147250.tinside.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2024-10-23 10:07:26 +0200 <dontdieych2> haskellbridge: how? " dontdieych2: you could clean up a bit "
2024-10-23 10:09:39 +0200 <mauke> the person speaking is actually sm
2024-10-23 10:09:47 +0200 <mauke> haskellbridge is just a bridge bot
2024-10-23 10:11:07 +0200 <c_wraith> > runHeapsize 30 $ recursiveSizeNF [1..10] -- Just 87
2024-10-23 10:11:09 +0200 <lambdabot> error:
2024-10-23 10:11:09 +0200 <lambdabot> Variable not in scope: runHeapsize :: t1 -> t0 -> terror:
2024-10-23 10:11:09 +0200 <lambdabot> Variable not in scope: recursiveSizeNF :: [a0] -> t0
2024-10-23 10:11:17 +0200 <c_wraith> oops, shouldn't have used >
2024-10-23 10:11:18 +0200 <c_wraith> anyway
2024-10-23 10:11:36 +0200 <c_wraith> use runHeapSize. That's what it's there for.
2024-10-23 10:11:41 +0200 <c_wraith> err, runHeapsize
2024-10-23 10:11:56 +0200 <c_wraith> though beware of its first parameter. It isn't documented, and it probably should have been
2024-10-23 10:12:05 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> oh. dontdieych2, https://hackage.haskell.org/package/stack-clean-old or ncdu are good
2024-10-23 10:12:16 +0200 <c_wraith> it's the initial size of the hash table it uses to prevent looping
2024-10-23 10:14:00 +0200 <famubu> c_wraith: Thanks. That made it.
2024-10-23 10:14:11 +0200 <famubu> yeah I too had been wondering what that argument was.
2024-10-23 10:14:27 +0200 <famubu> hadn't looked at source
2024-10-23 10:14:40 +0200 <famubu> (not that I would understand much anyway..)
2024-10-23 10:15:36 +0200 <c_wraith> runHeapsize will return Nothing if the GC runs during it
2024-10-23 10:16:03 +0200 <dontdieych2> haskellbridge: thanks
2024-10-23 10:16:08 +0200 <c_wraith> so making the initial hash table large enough is a way to minimize the chances of that
2024-10-23 10:17:14 +0200 <c_wraith> ideally you'd set it to the number of pointers that will be traversed. in practice, if you already knew that you probably wouldn't be using it
2024-10-23 10:17:46 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> holy sh%* I have 95G in mine... joke's on me 😆
2024-10-23 10:18:52 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> 106G
2024-10-23 10:20:38 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d50-99-47-73.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-10-23 10:22:11 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
2024-10-23 10:22:45 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@176.2.79.59) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-10-23 10:23:03 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@176.2.79.59)
2024-10-23 10:23:23 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> .rustup: 1.6G; .cargo: 2.9G
2024-10-23 10:24:07 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> .cache/ghcide: 2.8G; .ghc-wasm: 3.8G
2024-10-23 10:24:28 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> .local/bin, mostly a bunch of fat haskell executables: 4.2G
2024-10-23 10:24:48 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> .ghcup: 16G. 2G each for the last 7 ghc versions and another 2G for hls
2024-10-23 10:26:45 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> .cabal: 23.6G - packages for ~15 ghc versions, averaging ~1.5G each, plus 1G for the hackage index
2024-10-23 10:27:17 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@176.2.79.59) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-10-23 10:27:39 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-004-248-165.176.4.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-10-23 10:28:27 +0200 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> now add nix and another 500 GB
2024-10-23 10:29:58 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> and finally: .stack, 106G. 2.4G for setup-exe-cache; 2.7G for pantry; 6.7G for three old ghc versions from before I switched to ghcup; and.. 94G of stack snapshot packages, spread across ~200 obscure directories under snapshots.
2024-10-23 10:30:44 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> I should clean up, but that's pretty bad. Compared to other languages, we look lazy
2024-10-23 10:31:18 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> I mean, it's not a fair comparison because I use a ton of haskell versions and don't build much with the others. But I know they'll be smaller.
2024-10-23 10:33:44 +0200eugenrh(~eugenrh@user/eugenrh) (Quit: WeeChat 3.7.1)
2024-10-23 10:35:33 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> cough, present company excepted
2024-10-23 10:35:51 +0200ft(~ft@p4fc2a216.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving)
2024-10-23 10:36:59 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> ghcup tui is a big improvement, it gathers things in one place, you can see and delete easily
2024-10-23 10:44:04 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> cleaned up a little too hard.. never mind
2024-10-23 10:45:55 +0200 <haskellbridge> <sm> I guess packages (and big caches like ghcide's, haskell-wasm's etc) are the big thing not managed by ghcup
2024-10-23 10:47:43 +0200 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> those things are hard to manage correctly and deletion of files is always a dangerous thing to do automatically
2024-10-23 10:48:13 +0200 <xelxebar> Trying to understand Catamorphism laws: https://wiki.haskell.org/Catamorphisms#Laws
2024-10-23 10:48:59 +0200 <xelxebar> Rather, I grok the definition of catamorphism in Haskell and also grok the cat theory definition.
2024-10-23 10:49:21 +0200 <xelxebar> However, it's not entirely clear to me where the laws come from.
2024-10-23 10:49:47 +0200 <xelxebar> I mean, cata-refl from above is pretty much Lambek's Theorem: https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/initial+algebra+of+an+endofunctor#LambeksTheorem
2024-10-23 10:50:40 +0200fmira(~user@user/fmira) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-10-23 10:50:43 +0200 <xelxebar> Are the cata laws essentially what guarantee its uniqueness?
2024-10-23 10:50:53 +0200fmira(~user@user/fmira) fmira
2024-10-23 10:51:23 +0200fmira(~user@user/fmira) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-10-23 10:51:50 +0200fmira(~user@user/fmira) fmira
2024-10-23 10:52:38 +0200 <xelxebar> More generally, if I'm reading about cats, what should I be thinking about to come up with similar laws on my own?
2024-10-23 10:53:18 +0200 <xelxebar> I'd like to *derive* the cata-* ones from the initial morphism definition.
2024-10-23 10:53:53 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
2024-10-23 10:55:07 +0200 <Leary> xelxebar: The first two should follow directly from the definition. The third one is a free theorem. Not sure about the last.
2024-10-23 10:55:21 +0200 <Leary> @free cata :: (F a -> a) -> FixF -> a
2024-10-23 10:55:21 +0200 <lambdabot> f . g = h . $map_F f => f . cata g = cata h
2024-10-23 10:57:53 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-004-248-165.176.4.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-10-23 10:58:19 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-004-248-165.176.4.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-10-23 11:00:43 +0200 <xelxebar> Leary: Yeah, they're each straightforward in isolation, but together do they imply the standard def?
2024-10-23 11:02:24 +0200fmira(~user@user/fmira) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-10-23 11:02:44 +0200 <xelxebar> Even more, if you only knew the category theory def, how do you go about figuring out the necessary laws?
2024-10-23 11:02:50 +0200fmira(~user@user/fmira) fmira
2024-10-23 11:04:13 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-10-23 11:05:05 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-004-248-165.176.4.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-10-23 11:05:50 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-134-024.176.6.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-10-23 11:13:53 +0200 <Leary> The line of questioning might need to be made more precise---I rather suspect the type signature alone already determines `cata`, and these properties follow. I'm not really sure why they're being called laws. I guess if you start with the properties alone in an untyped calculus, then `cata-cancel` alone gives you a definition for `cata`: just compose `outF` on the right.
2024-10-23 11:17:41 +0200ridcully(~ridcully@p57b52138.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-10-23 11:18:48 +0200 <Leary> As for how you'd arive at these properties, it's a matter of mathematical taste. There's no real methodology other than to ask "what properties do I want?" Here's my view: identity and composition laws are bread and butter; that's cata-refl and cata-compose. I think cata-fusion is what cat theorists might call a /naturality/ condition; it arises from not wanting `cata` to care about what we're folding down to. cata-cancel is the only one that actually r
2024-10-23 11:18:49 +0200 <Leary> elates directly to the structure of a fixpoint; it essentially arises from the same logic that gives you an implementation for `cata`.
2024-10-23 11:21:21 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-10-23 11:28:02 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-134-024.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-10-23 11:28:32 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@176.7.156.149)
2024-10-23 11:37:31 +0200aforemny(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cf3:ad00:f9bd:7d15:f62e:4b46) aforemny
2024-10-23 11:37:48 +0200JamesMowery42(~JamesMowe@ip98-167-207-182.ph.ph.cox.net) JamesMowery
2024-10-23 11:38:43 +0200JamesMowery4(~JamesMowe@ip98-167-207-182.ph.ph.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2024-10-23 11:38:47 +0200JamesMowery42JamesMowery4
2024-10-23 11:41:13 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@176.7.156.149) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2024-10-23 11:41:46 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-004-241-059.176.4.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-10-23 11:47:27 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) toonn
2024-10-23 11:52:17 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Client Quit)
2024-10-23 11:53:45 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) toonn
2024-10-23 11:54:19 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-10-23 11:54:54 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2024-10-23 11:57:57 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) (Quit: WeeChat 4.2.2)
2024-10-23 11:58:30 +0200ridcully(~ridcully@p508acf65.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) ridcully
2024-10-23 12:02:44 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-004-241-059.176.4.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-10-23 12:03:01 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2024-10-23 12:03:04 +0200alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-310b-6bee-c9e9-77ca-ca4e-516d.rev.sfr.net) alexherbo2
2024-10-23 12:07:45 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-23 12:08:53 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-10-23 12:09:43 +0200CrunchyFlakes(~CrunchyFl@ip1f13e94e.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024-10-23 12:10:56 +0200CrunchyFlakes(~CrunchyFl@ip1f13e94e.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2024-10-23 12:11:18 +0200ash3en(~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) ash3en
2024-10-23 12:13:12 +0200 <ash3en> hi, can i avoid dependencies of a library if I just don't use functions that need e.g. template haskell in the library? so my program is free of template haskell as a dependency?
2024-10-23 12:15:52 +0200 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> ash3en: Without forking the library, no afaik
2024-10-23 12:16:31 +0200 <ash3en> ok, dependencies are going wild, so i'm asking
2024-10-23 12:16:51 +0200gioyik(~gioyik@gateway/tor-sasl/gioyik) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-10-23 12:17:37 +0200alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-310b-6bee-c9e9-77ca-ca4e-516d.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-10-23 12:18:40 +0200 <Leary> ash3en: If your package is an executable, you can vendor a cut-down version of the dependency. You could also submit a PR to the dep splitting out the parts that need the transitive dep into a public sublibrary, so people who don't want to depend on it can avoid doing so.
2024-10-23 12:19:20 +0200ash3en(~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) (Quit: ash3en)
2024-10-23 12:19:41 +0200ash3en(~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) ash3en
2024-10-23 12:20:07 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2024-10-23 12:20:22 +0200 <ash3en> thank you :)
2024-10-23 12:20:39 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-23 12:20:59 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-004-241-059.176.4.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-10-23 12:22:03 +0200Square2(~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2024-10-23 12:24:08 +0200mari-estel(~mari-este@user/mari-estel) mari-estel
2024-10-23 12:24:09 +0200 <ash3en> I do ask myself why template haskell is everywhere btw. even with Data.Text, TH is a direct dependency. that seems not too elegant to me, since TH is very ambiguous to say at least afaik.
2024-10-23 12:24:22 +0200gioyik(~gioyik@gateway/tor-sasl/gioyik) gioyik
2024-10-23 12:26:50 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2024-10-23 12:27:22 +0200morsinichi(~morsinich@61.4.97.157)
2024-10-23 12:33:50 +0200 <tomsmeding> template-haskell is a boot library: it's installed with GHC. So it doesn't incur a download or build for your users
2024-10-23 12:34:01 +0200 <tomsmeding> ash3en: so I wouldn't worry about that particular dependency :)
2024-10-23 12:34:36 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2024-10-23 12:34:42 +0200 <tomsmeding> (as is 'text', by the way, but text is reinstallable as far as I know (meaning that you can build a different version from hackage and use that), whereas template-haskell is bound to the compiler)
2024-10-23 12:36:39 +0200ash3en(~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2024-10-23 12:41:28 +0200mari-estel(~mari-este@user/mari-estel) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-10-23 12:41:34 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-23 12:42:07 +0200ash3en(~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) ash3en
2024-10-23 12:42:22 +0200 <ash3en> ah thank you again :)
2024-10-23 12:45:13 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) lortabac
2024-10-23 12:45:30 +0200Digit(~user@user/digit) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-10-23 12:47:25 +0200CiaoSen(~Jura@2a05:5800:2d7:c100:ca4b:d6ff:fec1:99da) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-23 12:51:06 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2024-10-23 12:55:32 +0200JamesMowery45(~JamesMowe@ip98-167-207-182.ph.ph.cox.net) JamesMowery
2024-10-23 12:57:03 +0200JamesMowery4(~JamesMowe@ip98-167-207-182.ph.ph.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2024-10-23 12:57:04 +0200JamesMowery45JamesMowery4
2024-10-23 12:57:24 +0200emmanuelux(~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Quit: au revoir)
2024-10-23 12:58:09 +0200morsinichi(~morsinich@61.4.97.157) (Quit: morsinichi)
2024-10-23 13:01:09 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-10-23 13:03:20 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2024-10-23 13:04:36 +0200 <mauke> what do you mean by TH being ambiguous?
2024-10-23 13:07:36 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-23 13:11:55 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:4e61:3b0b:e25d:c6d4)
2024-10-23 13:15:52 +0200Smiles(uid551636@id-551636.lymington.irccloud.com) Smiles
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2024-10-23 14:00:40 +0200Everything(~Everythin@178-133-61-155.mobile.vf-ua.net) Everything
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2024-10-23 14:26:36 +0200Square2(~Square4@user/square) Square
2024-10-23 14:26:54 +0200weary-traveler(~user@user/user363627) user363627
2024-10-23 14:28:39 +0200ash3en(~Thunderbi@2a03:7846:b6eb:101:93ac:a90a:da67:f207) ash3en
2024-10-23 14:31:51 +0200 <ash3en> I mean it is controversial in some discussions I read. I can't form an opinion based on TH itself, since I am not that advanced. but it seems to go against some principles such as simplicity and lightweight, if I understand the criticisms -- and it is probably a topic that comes up quite frequently, so I shouldn't have started anything in this direction here
2024-10-23 14:31:58 +0200 <ash3en> since I am not too firm with it
2024-10-23 14:33:21 +0200gioyik(~gioyik@gateway/tor-sasl/gioyik) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-10-23 14:36:01 +0200merijn(~merijn@77.242.116.146) merijn
2024-10-23 14:40:17 +0200 <Square2> Anyone got got some ideas on Java <-> Haskell interop, where the Java process acts like a client? Important aspect would be to have a domain model from Haskell easily replicated on java (for type constructs that work in java?). Seems like most fast-to-parse binary communication protocols focus on protocol changes, which there will have be none in this use case.
2024-10-23 14:40:23 +0200 <Square2> -got*
2024-10-23 14:40:51 +0200 <Square2> replicated in*
2024-10-23 14:41:48 +0200gioyik(~gioyik@gateway/tor-sasl/gioyik) gioyik
2024-10-23 14:41:58 +0200 <Square2> will be none* (sorry for sloppy writing)
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2024-10-23 16:29:43 +0200 <merijn> Square2: "which there will be none of" <- well, that's a lie
2024-10-23 16:30:29 +0200 <merijn> Experience says that 100% of people who think "I don't need to think about protocol changes" come to rue that thought later :p
2024-10-23 16:30:46 +0200 <merijn> I've made that mistake, like, 5 times by now. Never again xD
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2024-10-23 17:19:54 +0200 <Square> merijn, the apps will always be deployed as one docker image together. It's essentially an attempt to move one module of an app to Haskell, because of features not available in java.
2024-10-23 17:21:32 +0200 <Square> ...and same pattern will be repeated in 10-20 apps. Cumbersome sure, but we really need parts in haskell it seems.
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2024-10-23 18:19:59 +0200 <tomsmeding> @tell ash3en TH can indeed go against some principles of simplicity in haskell, but if it does then a whole lot of things do -- thinks like DataKinds, TypeFamilies, GHC Generics, LinearTypes, RankNTypes, and perhaps even GADTs. Similarly, from the perspective of a Haskell programmer for whom these things are natural, things like unboxed data types can be "against simplicity" of the language. GHC
2024-10-23 18:19:59 +0200 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
2024-10-23 18:20:01 +0200 <tomsmeding> Haskell has many extensions, quite a few of which make the language larger and more complicated. TH is one of them, but if you reject TH _on this premise_, then you'll need to reject a large part of the language with it.
2024-10-23 18:20:09 +0200 <tomsmeding> @tell ash3en Haskell has many extensions, quite a few of which make the language larger and more complicated. TH is one of them, but if you reject TH _on this premise_, then you'll need to reject a large part of the language with it.
2024-10-23 18:20:09 +0200 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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2024-10-23 19:38:50 +0200 <mauke> <merijn> Experience says that 100% of people who think "I don't need to think about protocol changes" come to rue that thought later :p <- I guess I'm an exception
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2024-10-23 19:40:31 +0200 <mauke> I wrote and ran an IRC bot with a decoupled storage back end. the communication protocol was simple (and highly suboptimal), but I never really needed to change it
2024-10-23 19:41:02 +0200 <mauke> even when the storage implementation changed from acid-state to SQLite
2024-10-23 19:42:39 +0200 <EvanR> idris 1 used a S-expression based protocol. Later instead of changing the protocol they changed the backend to lisp xD
2024-10-23 19:43:00 +0200 <mauke> haha
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2024-10-23 21:00:01 +0200caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye)
2024-10-23 21:00:37 +0200caconym(~caconym@user/caconym) caconym
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2024-10-23 21:30:06 +0200Everything(~Everythin@178-133-129-110.mobile.vf-ua.net) Everything
2024-10-23 21:31:21 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod
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2024-10-23 21:50:41 +0200alexherbo2(~alexherbo@2a02-8440-310b-6bee-d19c-c2cf-5674-8209.rev.sfr.net) alexherbo2
2024-10-23 21:53:17 +0200gioyik(~gioyik@gateway/tor-sasl/gioyik) gioyik
2024-10-23 21:53:33 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
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2024-10-23 22:26:24 +0200morsinichi(~morsinich@49.228.14.161) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-10-23 22:28:12 +0200 <EvanR> can I get away with this https://paste.tomsmeding.com/TA6noxT0
2024-10-23 22:28:36 +0200 <EvanR> probably not
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2024-10-23 22:39:13 +0200gioyik(~gioyik@gateway/tor-sasl/gioyik) gioyik
2024-10-23 22:40:55 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-10-23 22:41:01 +0200 <EvanR> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/Gx29wJNl
2024-10-23 22:42:41 +0200 <int-e> . o O ( 0-0 0-0-0 )
2024-10-23 22:43:59 +0200Guest1407(~andrei@dhcp-128-189-227-162.ubcsecure.wireless.ubc.ca) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-10-23 22:44:19 +0200jcarpenter2(~lol@96.78.87.197) (Quit: Leaving)
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2024-10-23 22:44:58 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) siracusa
2024-10-23 22:45:34 +0200 <EvanR> that's... gonna have to be at a higher layer
2024-10-23 22:45:41 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-10-23 22:46:13 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich
2024-10-23 22:47:52 +0200 <EvanR> I realize if (Int,Int) was a Num I could've just used +
2024-10-23 22:48:21 +0200 <EvanR> @src Complex
2024-10-23 22:48:22 +0200 <lambdabot> data (RealFloat a) => Complex a = !a :+ !a
2024-10-23 22:48:52 +0200 <int-e> instance RealFloat a => Num (Complex a)
2024-10-23 22:49:18 +0200michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.215) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-10-23 22:50:21 +0200 <int-e> (the constraint on the data type is gone, but that still doesn't make it usable for your case)
2024-10-23 22:51:33 +0200 <EvanR> lambdabot has old news? smh
2024-10-23 22:52:28 +0200 <int-e> I wanted Gaussian integers recently so I copied half of the Data.Complex module and changed the Num instance to error on abs and signum... it felt dirty.
2024-10-23 22:53:01 +0200 <EvanR> gaussian integers?
2024-10-23 22:53:22 +0200 <int-e> complex numbers with integer real and imaginary parts
2024-10-23 22:54:33 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2024-10-23 22:56:41 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-10-23 22:58:28 +0200 <int-e> (Gauss was the first to study them in depth, from a number theoretic perspective: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaussian_integer#Historical_background )
2024-10-23 23:01:38 +0200 <EvanR> mind blown
2024-10-23 23:03:59 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-10-23 23:12:32 +0200aforemny_(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cfd:4f00:a308:87bf:ccc5:4223) aforemny
2024-10-23 23:13:18 +0200aforemny(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cf3:ad00:f9bd:7d15:f62e:4b46) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2024-10-23 23:14:45 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-10-23 23:19:49 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2024-10-23 23:24:22 +0200 <EvanR> usually when you play chess on the computer you initiate a castle by moving the king into a square 2 squares away, which is presented as one of the squares to move to
2024-10-23 23:24:42 +0200 <EvanR> but it's really an oddball move because it really is moving 2 pieces
2024-10-23 23:24:59 +0200 <EvanR> so on that front it seems to be this whole other thing
2024-10-23 23:26:35 +0200 <EvanR> and unlike en passant you can't (always) tell just by looking at the board whether moving the king 2 to the right or left is valid or invalid
2024-10-23 23:27:30 +0200 <EvanR> shoot en passant also requires knowing the last turn
2024-10-23 23:28:01 +0200 <EvanR> that's it switching to checkers
2024-10-23 23:30:33 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-10-23 23:35:01 +0200ThePenguin(~ThePengui@cust-95-80-24-166.csbnet.se) (Quit: ThePenguin)
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2024-10-23 23:35:36 +0200Everything(~Everythin@178-133-129-110.mobile.vf-ua.net) (Quit: leaving)
2024-10-23 23:35:52 +0200Everything(~Everythin@178-133-129-110.mobile.vf-ua.net) Everything
2024-10-23 23:37:36 +0200ThePenguin(~ThePengui@cust-95-80-24-166.csbnet.se) ThePenguin
2024-10-23 23:46:20 +0200merijn(~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) merijn
2024-10-23 23:49:06 +0200andrei(~andrei@dhcp-128-189-230-146.ubcsecure.wireless.ubc.ca)
2024-10-23 23:49:29 +0200andreiGuest256
2024-10-23 23:50:06 +0200 <monochrom> :(
2024-10-23 23:50:07 +0200ljdarj1(~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj
2024-10-23 23:50:08 +0200 <monochrom> :)
2024-10-23 23:50:35 +0200morb(~morb@pool-108-41-100-120.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
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2024-10-23 23:54:22 +0200gioyik_(~gioyik@gateway/tor-sasl/gioyik) gioyik
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