| 2024-09-23 00:15:33 +0200 | joeyadams | (~joeyadams@syn-184-054-105-097.res.spectrum.com) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2024-09-23 00:17:46 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2024-09-23 00:18:13 +0200 | <gwern> | anyway so I guess I should file a ubuntu bug for the ghc package asking for the existing ghc.bash to be installed appropriately? |
| 2024-09-23 00:21:02 +0200 | <sm> | that sounds good, and/or a ghc bug asking for the script to be updated for latest ghc |
| 2024-09-23 00:21:33 +0200 | gwern | figures that once it is actually enabled rather than buried in the deepest mustiest part of the ghc repo, then people will start filing bugs on its infelicities |
| 2024-09-23 00:22:48 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-09-23 00:30:21 +0200 | <gwern> | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ghc/+bug/2081666 |
| 2024-09-23 00:31:13 +0200 | gwern | (~gwern@user/gwern) () |
| 2024-09-23 00:31:38 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d50-99-47-73.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2024-09-23 00:33:33 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2024-09-23 00:38:34 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2024-09-23 00:48:14 +0200 | sdrfan123 | (~sdrfan123@2607:fb90:df8d:eacb:467:e53f:ae7e:31ca) |
| 2024-09-23 00:49:20 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2024-09-23 00:49:31 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I love launchpad, haven't seen it for ages |
| 2024-09-23 00:49:55 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I just saw it again last night (they broke clang++, dammit) |
| 2024-09-23 00:50:35 +0200 | geekosaur | just upgraded to 24.04. it's a mixed bag, but generally positive because a lot of annoying bugs going back at least to 20.04 have finally been fixed |
| 2024-09-23 00:52:57 +0200 | target_i | (~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2024-09-23 00:54:46 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2024-09-23 00:57:04 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2024-09-23 01:00:25 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> 👀 |
| 2024-09-23 01:02:12 +0200 | athan | (~athan@syn-098-153-145-140.biz.spectrum.com) |
| 2024-09-23 01:03:28 +0200 | <geekosaur> | first time I logged in a number of programs were behaving oddly, but exiting and restarting them fixed that. ??? |
| 2024-09-23 01:03:36 +0200 | <geekosaur> | hope that doesn't repeat on reboot |
| 2024-09-23 01:05:08 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2024-09-23 01:08:38 +0200 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) (Quit: JuanDaugherty) |
| 2024-09-23 01:09:54 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2024-09-23 01:11:24 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) |
| 2024-09-23 01:15:13 +0200 | Squared | (~Square@user/square) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2024-09-23 01:15:30 +0200 | Squared | (~Square@user/square) |
| 2024-09-23 01:18:34 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e72cfb68200a0aaa61168dda.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-09-23 01:18:45 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2024-09-23 01:21:35 +0200 | sp1ff | (~user@c-73-11-70-111.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
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| 2024-09-23 01:34:33 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2024-09-23 01:36:59 +0200 | <cheater> | "i love launchpad" there's no way you're not alone on that |
| 2024-09-23 01:39:28 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
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| 2024-09-23 06:54:53 +0200 | lambdaRule | (~lambdaRul@node-1w7jr9phpv013mevadflg9a0e.ipv6.telus.net) |
| 2024-09-23 06:55:19 +0200 | euphores | (~SASL_euph@user/euphores) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2024-09-23 06:58:38 +0200 | <lambdaRule> | Hi, I am confused in this piece of code: "toLeibniz Eq.Refl = refl @a" Â in the section "Equivalence of Leibniz and propositional equality" (https://ryanglscott.github.io/2021/08/22/leibniz-equality-in-haskell-part-1/), how does it work on the right hand side? |
| 2024-09-23 06:59:44 +0200 | billchenchina- | (~billchenc@103.118.42.229) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2024-09-23 06:59:54 +0200 | billchenchina- | (~billchenc@113.57.152.160) |
| 2024-09-23 07:02:42 +0200 | <lambdaRule> | I see that "refl = Refl id" so refl expects Refl constructor with a functor like argument. how does "a" fit the expected type? |
| 2024-09-23 07:02:50 +0200 | euphores | (~SASL_euph@user/euphores) |
| 2024-09-23 07:03:53 +0200 | <geekosaur> | `a` is the expected type. The `@` indicates a type application https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/type_applications.html |
| 2024-09-23 07:04:24 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2024-09-23 07:04:45 +0200 | <c_wraith> | ah, why did he reuse the constructor name? I don't expect Refl to have an argument! |
| 2024-09-23 07:09:06 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2024-09-23 07:10:28 +0200 | <lambdaRule> | from what I understand, the expected return type is a:=b, so a := b |
| 2024-09-23 07:10:28 +0200 | <lambdaRule> | Refl _ |
| 2024-09-23 07:10:29 +0200 | <lambdaRule> | the hole after Refl should be: forall c. c a -> c b |
| 2024-09-23 07:10:43 +0200 | <lambdaRule> | I don't see why type a would work |
| 2024-09-23 07:11:03 +0200 | <Axman6> | what's the full type of refl, including forall? |
| 2024-09-23 07:11:05 +0200 | <c_wraith> | the @a is on a use of refl, not Refl |
| 2024-09-23 07:11:32 +0200 | <Axman6> | refl :: forall a. a := a, right? |
| 2024-09-23 07:12:00 +0200 | <lambdaRule> | right |
| 2024-09-23 07:12:38 +0200 | <Axman6> | so in toLeibniz :: forall a b. (a :~: b) -> (a := b) when we use refl @a, we're specifically saying we want to call refl with a being _the same `a`_ as our call to toLeibniz |
| 2024-09-23 07:12:57 +0200 | jinsun | (~jinsun@user/jinsun) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2024-09-23 07:13:53 +0200 | <Axman6> | if we had x = Int :~: Int, then toLiebnitz x would become refl @Int |
| 2024-09-23 07:14:09 +0200 | <Axman6> | toLeibniz even |
| 2024-09-23 07:15:43 +0200 | <lambdaRule> | ok, how do we get to a := b from this call? |
| 2024-09-23 07:15:56 +0200 | <Axman6> | (uh, I guess x :: Int :~: Int; x = Refl, but yo uknow what I mean) |
| 2024-09-23 07:16:17 +0200 | <Axman6> | that's what refl does, it produces something of type a := a |
| 2024-09-23 07:17:08 +0200 | <Axman6> | but we're being specific about which a, it's the same a that the argument to toLeibniz had (and :~: is evidence that a ~ b, so we can produce a := b, a.k.a a := a) |
| 2024-09-23 07:17:21 +0200 | <lambdaRule> | I still don't see how the input (a :~: b) is used anywhere to get to the result |
| 2024-09-23 07:17:27 +0200 | <Axman6> | (someone please jump in if I'm completely wrong here) |
| 2024-09-23 07:19:24 +0200 | <Axman6> | it's not, it's all happening at the type system. But we know that if we received _anything_ of type a :~: b, then it could only have been a value of Refl, which requires that a ~ b, so we've been given evidence that those types are the same. Then we call refl at the type a to produce a := a. The argument is unused, but its type is used |
| 2024-09-23 07:20:20 +0200 | <c_wraith> | Yeah. When you match on Eq.Refl, it adds (a ~ b) to the context |
| 2024-09-23 07:20:34 +0200 | <c_wraith> | So GHC treats the two type variables as interchangeable |
| 2024-09-23 07:21:08 +0200 | <c_wraith> | That's one of the main feature of GADTs, and not really in scope for that post. I think it expect you to know what they do already. |
| 2024-09-23 07:21:35 +0200 | libertyprime | (~libertypr@118-92-68-68.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) |
| 2024-09-23 07:21:38 +0200 | <lambdaRule> | I see, it's getting clearer... |
| 2024-09-23 07:22:15 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) |
| 2024-09-23 07:22:36 +0200 | <Axman6> | Notice the definition of :~:: data a :~: b where Refl :: a :~: a -- you can only produce values of type a :~: b is a is equal to b |
| 2024-09-23 07:22:52 +0200 | <Axman6> | if* |
| 2024-09-23 07:23:05 +0200 | <lambdaRule> | so the refl call with type a then compiler see that the expected type is a := b but since a ~ b so refl works |
| 2024-09-23 07:23:26 +0200 | <c_wraith> | yes, exactly |
| 2024-09-23 07:23:47 +0200 | <lambdaRule> | so the key is a ~ b is the information bring into the scope by pattern matching the input |
| 2024-09-23 07:24:07 +0200 | <c_wraith> | yes. Matching specifically that constructor brings that into scope. |
| 2024-09-23 07:26:50 +0200 | <lambdaRule> | Thanks a lot! c_wraith, Axman6, geekosaur. |
| 2024-09-23 07:28:16 +0200 | <Axman6> | :~: is probably one of the more confusing common uses of GADTs, seeing the usual example of a simple expression tree is useful for understanding how each constructor carries some typoe information which gets exposed by pattern matching |
| 2024-09-23 07:28:55 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@77.22.252.56) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2024-09-23 07:30:03 +0200 | <c_wraith> | It's really funny looking at everything in Data.Type.Equality with a definition like foo Refl = Refl or bar Refl Refl = Refl |
| 2024-09-23 07:30:08 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-09-23 07:30:13 +0200 | <c_wraith> | all the work is being done in the type system with the GADTs |
| 2024-09-23 07:30:21 +0200 | jle` | (~jle`@2603:8001:3b02:84d4:caad:a8df:b144:6c96) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2024-09-23 07:30:22 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-007-153-048.176.7.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2024-09-23 07:31:24 +0200 | <Axman6> | like data Expr a where Num :: Int -> Expr Int; Bool' :: Bool -> Expr Bool; Plus :: Expr a -> Expr a -> Expr a; Eq :: Eq a => Expr a -> Expr a -> Expr Bool. When you pattern match on eval :: Expr a -> a; eval e = case e of Eq a b -> eval a == eval b; ...; we've brought into scope that the two expressions represent something of the same type, and that those types have an Eq constraint so we can use == |
| 2024-09-23 07:31:48 +0200 | <Axman6> | that would have been better as a paste... |
| 2024-09-23 07:33:51 +0200 | billchenchina- | (~billchenc@113.57.152.160) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2024-09-23 07:34:54 +0200 | billchenchina- | (~billchenc@103.118.42.229) |
| 2024-09-23 07:35:58 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2024-09-23 07:39:35 +0200 | neuroevolutus | (~neuroevol@37.19.200.139) |
| 2024-09-23 07:41:19 +0200 | kuribas | (~user@ptr-17d51enh08wgcmf553y.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) |
| 2024-09-23 07:41:33 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2024-09-23 07:41:47 +0200 | haskellbridge | (~hackager@syn-024-093-192-219.res.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-09-23 07:42:11 +0200 | haskellbridge | (~hackager@syn-024-093-192-219.res.spectrum.com) |
| 2024-09-23 07:42:11 +0200 | ChanServ | +v haskellbridge |
| 2024-09-23 07:47:26 +0200 | haskellbridge | (~hackager@syn-024-093-192-219.res.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-09-23 07:47:51 +0200 | haskellbridge | (~hackager@syn-024-093-192-219.res.spectrum.com) |
| 2024-09-23 07:47:51 +0200 | ChanServ | +v haskellbridge |
| 2024-09-23 07:48:03 +0200 | lambdaRule | (~lambdaRul@node-1w7jr9phpv013mevadflg9a0e.ipv6.telus.net) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2024-09-23 07:49:58 +0200 | youthlic | (~Thunderbi@user/youthlic) |
| 2024-09-23 07:51:44 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2024-09-23 07:53:22 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e72cfb6581c435b27e22238d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2024-09-23 07:55:19 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-007-153-048.176.7.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2024-09-23 07:56:32 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2024-09-23 07:57:02 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2024-09-23 08:02:14 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 2024-09-23 08:07:29 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-09-23 08:18:02 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@204-220-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |