| 2024-05-30 00:10:32 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) |
| 2024-05-30 00:11:24 +0200 | AlexNoo_ | (~AlexNoo@178.34.150.84) |
| 2024-05-30 00:12:37 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) |
| 2024-05-30 00:13:40 +0200 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@5.139.233.96) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
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| 2024-05-30 00:17:24 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e714dc60b15ce67d57b130c2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 00:19:37 +0200 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@178.34.150.84) |
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| 2024-05-30 00:22:10 +0200 | emmanuelux | (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) |
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| 2024-05-30 00:38:59 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving) |
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| 2024-05-30 01:15:39 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d173-183-246-216.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 2024-05-30 01:22:12 +0200 | _d0t | (~{-d0t-}@user/-d0t-/x-7915216) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2024-05-30 01:26:12 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 01:32:40 +0200 | ocra8 | (ocra8@user/ocra8) (Quit: WeeChat 4.2.2) |
| 2024-05-30 01:47:15 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
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| 2024-05-30 02:19:58 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) |
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| 2024-05-30 02:33:00 +0200 | gentauro | (~gentauro@user/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-05-30 02:33:34 +0200 | fizbin_ | (~fizbin@user/fizbin) |
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| 2024-05-30 02:38:25 +0200 | gentauro | (~gentauro@user/gentauro) |
| 2024-05-30 02:43:33 +0200 | TheCoffeMaker | (~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Excess Flood) |
| 2024-05-30 02:44:06 +0200 | TheCoffeMaker | (~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) |
| 2024-05-30 02:46:05 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 02:49:42 +0200 | <Leary> | Franciman: The way to run untyped lambda calculus in Haskell with no overhead is to write it in `newtype LC = Lam{ ($$) :: LC -> LC }`. The issue with this representation is that there's no safe way to feed typed Haskell values in and get them back out at the end, but if you take on the responsibility of the type checker, you can just use unsafeCoerce. E.g. `fix :: (a -> a) -> a; fix = unsafeCoerce $ Lam \f -> let y = Lam \x -> f $$ (x $$ x) in y $$ y` |
| 2024-05-30 02:53:09 +0200 | <Leary> | (though technically, due to a wontfix GHC bug, you need to {-# NOINLINE y #-} to prevent the simplifier from "simplifying" the Y combinator) |
| 2024-05-30 03:09:17 +0200 | pounce | (~pounce@user/cute/pounce) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 03:10:37 +0200 | Hafydd | (~Hafydd@user/hafydd) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
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| 2024-05-30 03:33:31 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 03:39:43 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) |
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| 2024-05-30 03:59:28 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:e725:dcc9:2cf0:4d32) |
| 2024-05-30 04:02:02 +0200 | TheCoffeMaker | (~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Excess Flood) |
| 2024-05-30 04:03:07 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2024-05-30 04:05:41 +0200 | TheCoffeMaker | (~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) |
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| 2024-05-30 04:12:08 +0200 | TheCoffeMaker | (~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 04:15:31 +0200 | TheCoffeMaker | (~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) |
| 2024-05-30 04:22:17 +0200 | TheCoffeMaker | (~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 04:24:05 +0200 | dyniec | (~dyniec@dybiec.info) (Quit: WeeChat 4.1.1) |
| 2024-05-30 04:25:42 +0200 | TheCoffeMaker | (~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) |
| 2024-05-30 04:25:59 +0200 | fizbin_ | (~fizbin@user/fizbin) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 04:29:48 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@rdng-25-b2-v4wan-169990-cust1344.vm39.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 04:37:22 +0200 | philopsos | (~caecilius@user/philopsos) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 2024-05-30 04:40:04 +0200 | emmanuelux | (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Quit: au revoir) |
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| 2024-05-30 04:41:49 +0200 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) |
| 2024-05-30 04:43:04 +0200 | philopsos1 | (~caecilius@user/philopsos) |
| 2024-05-30 04:43:49 +0200 | TheCoffeMaker | (~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 04:44:06 +0200 | TheCoffeMaker | (~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) |
| 2024-05-30 04:48:48 +0200 | TheCoffeMaker | (~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 04:49:14 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@125x103x176x34.ap125.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) |
| 2024-05-30 04:53:46 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73d29.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 2024-05-30 04:54:36 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i5387092A.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 04:56:13 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i5387090B.versanet.de) |
| 2024-05-30 05:08:54 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 05:21:56 +0200 | aforemny | (~aforemny@i59F516CD.versanet.de) |
| 2024-05-30 05:23:23 +0200 | aforemny_ | (~aforemny@i59F516FB.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 05:26:21 +0200 | xdminsy | (~xdminsy@117.147.70.212) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2024-05-30 05:52:29 +0200 | <mjrosenb> | Leary: what does it simplify it to? |
| 2024-05-30 05:54:42 +0200 | <Leary> | mjrosenb: `Y f` "simplifies" to `f (Y f)`, which "simplifies" to `f (f (Y f))`, ad infinitum. |
| 2024-05-30 05:56:36 +0200 | <mjrosenb> | gotcha. I was going to say, you can simplify it any amount and it'll still be valid. |
| 2024-05-30 06:02:50 +0200 | <probie> | mjrosenb: the problem is that GHC doesn't _stop_ simplifying it |
| 2024-05-30 06:12:40 +0200 | Square2 | (~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 06:13:35 +0200 | Square | (~Square@user/square) |
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| 2024-05-30 06:59:20 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-013-249.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-05-30 06:59:38 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
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| 2024-05-30 07:30:02 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 2024-05-30 08:14:43 +0200 | TheCoffeMaker | (~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) |
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| 2024-05-30 09:13:10 +0200 | xdminsy | (~xdminsy@117.147.70.212) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
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| 2024-05-30 09:21:23 +0200 | kuribas | (~user@ptr-3zut8u1nt3xxt1xf.0000808120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) |
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| 2024-05-30 09:24:56 +0200 | david_tvh | (~david_tvh@212-114-26-122.box.freepro.com) |
| 2024-05-30 09:25:16 +0200 | chiselfuse | (~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 2024-05-30 09:35:27 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@rdng-25-b2-v4wan-169990-cust1344.vm39.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2024-05-30 09:37:08 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) |
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| 2024-05-30 09:42:35 +0200 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 09:43:39 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-013-249.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-05-30 09:45:23 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) |
| 2024-05-30 09:46:58 +0200 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) |
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| 2024-05-30 09:55:45 +0200 | TheCoffeMaker | (~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Excess Flood) |
| 2024-05-30 09:56:19 +0200 | TheCoffeMaker | (~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) |
| 2024-05-30 09:58:11 +0200 | kuribas | (~user@ptr-3zut8u1nt3xxt1xf.0000808120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 10:07:58 +0200 | TheCoffeMaker | (~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Excess Flood) |
| 2024-05-30 10:08:10 +0200 | oo_miguel | (~Thunderbi@78-11-181-16.static.ip.netia.com.pl) |
| 2024-05-30 10:09:19 +0200 | kuribas | (~user@ptr-3zusay2eqdicedr8.0000808120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) |
| 2024-05-30 10:17:48 +0200 | AlexNoo_ | AlexNoo |
| 2024-05-30 10:20:58 +0200 | TheCoffeMaker | (~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) |
| 2024-05-30 10:21:04 +0200 | zetef | (~quassel@95.77.17.251) |
| 2024-05-30 10:22:38 +0200 | TheCoffeMaker | (~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Excess Flood) |
| 2024-05-30 10:23:00 +0200 | kuribas` | (~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) |
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| 2024-05-30 10:24:40 +0200 | tzh | (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2024-05-30 10:25:20 +0200 | TheCoffeMaker | (~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) |
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| 2024-05-30 10:29:18 +0200 | TheCoffeMaker | (~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Excess Flood) |
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| 2024-05-30 10:32:37 +0200 | TheCoffeMaker | (~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) |
| 2024-05-30 10:33:42 +0200 | tcard | (~tcard@2400:4051:5801:7500:cf17:befc:ff82:5303) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2024-05-30 11:25:00 +0200 | sawilagar | (~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) |
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| 2024-05-30 11:48:51 +0200 | zetef | (~quassel@95.77.17.251) |
| 2024-05-30 11:51:36 +0200 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) |
| 2024-05-30 11:54:49 +0200 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:ab8a:5a00:591b:7783:d368:bb2c) |
| 2024-05-30 11:56:23 +0200 | mreh | (~matthew@host86-160-168-107.range86-160.btcentralplus.com) |
| 2024-05-30 12:02:04 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) (Quit: WeeChat 4.2.1) |
| 2024-05-30 12:06:38 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@125x103x176x34.ap125.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 12:12:12 +0200 | cfricke | (~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 12:13:20 +0200 | mreh | (~matthew@host86-160-168-107.range86-160.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 12:13:54 +0200 | cawfee | (~root@2406:3003:2077:1c50::babe) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 12:16:08 +0200 | rncwnd | (~quassel@2a01:4f8:221:27c6::1) (Quit: Later) |
| 2024-05-30 12:16:30 +0200 | david_tvh | (~david_tvh@212-114-26-122.box.freepro.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 12:18:19 +0200 | rncwnd | (~quassel@2a01:4f8:221:27c6::1) |
| 2024-05-30 12:21:24 +0200 | cawfee | (~root@2406:3003:2077:1c50::babe) |
| 2024-05-30 12:23:48 +0200 | alphabeta | (~kilolympu@31.205.200.235) |
| 2024-05-30 12:24:26 +0200 | kilolympus | (~kilolympu@31.205.200.246) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 12:24:34 +0200 | killy | (~killy@staticline-31-183-186-9.toya.net.pl) |
| 2024-05-30 12:25:24 +0200 | robobub | (uid248673@id-248673.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2024-05-30 12:25:38 +0200 | cfricke | (~cfricke@user/cfricke) |
| 2024-05-30 12:34:11 +0200 | zetef | (~quassel@95.77.17.251) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-05-30 12:38:42 +0200 | Feuermagier | (~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) |
| 2024-05-30 12:39:29 +0200 | mei | (~mei@user/mei) |
| 2024-05-30 12:41:47 +0200 | remmie | (ianremsen@tilde.team) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 12:42:40 +0200 | notzmv | (~daniel@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 12:42:44 +0200 | qhong | (~qhong@DN160vrd000d6kpg009l6c0000fj.stanford.edu) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2024-05-30 12:45:11 +0200 | dyniec | (~dyniec@dybiec.info) |
| 2024-05-30 12:45:48 +0200 | qhong | (~qhong@DN160vrd000d6kpg009l6c0000fj.stanford.edu) |
| 2024-05-30 12:53:47 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@88-125-6-227.subs.proxad.net) |
| 2024-05-30 12:55:39 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@rdng-25-b2-v4wan-169990-cust1344.vm39.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 12:58:04 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | after some years, haskell is teaching me to actually read the stuff that gets dumped at the prompt, amazing. ^^; |
| 2024-05-30 12:58:27 +0200 | qhong | (~qhong@DN160vrd000d6kpg009l6c0000fj.stanford.edu) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2024-05-30 12:59:36 +0200 | qhong | (~qhong@rescomp-21-400677.stanford.edu) |
| 2024-05-30 13:01:49 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | turns out that what the computer is telling you is sometimes actually useful info :) |
| 2024-05-30 13:02:10 +0200 | nain | (~nain@37.19.205.146) |
| 2024-05-30 13:02:25 +0200 | nain | nain_ |
| 2024-05-30 13:03:51 +0200 | Maxdamantus | (~Maxdamant@user/maxdamantus) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 13:04:27 +0200 | Maxdamantus | (~Maxdamant@user/maxdamantus) |
| 2024-05-30 13:04:36 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | and also, reading is still useful sometimes, who would think? |
| 2024-05-30 13:04:36 +0200 | nain_ | nain |
| 2024-05-30 13:05:00 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | indeed |
| 2024-05-30 13:05:25 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | it's easy to conclude that these things are not useful, with what lots of software (also companies) are trying to tell you |
| 2024-05-30 13:06:22 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | actually i still have to consume an impedence coming from other technologies which makes long haskell posts (even just on haskell wiki!) unintelligible |
| 2024-05-30 13:06:50 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | sometimes that's just people not being great writers, though |
| 2024-05-30 13:07:00 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | (which says nothing about their haskell skill -- those skills are separate things) |
| 2024-05-30 13:07:48 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a05:5800:2da:8d00:e6b9:7aff:fe80:3d03) |
| 2024-05-30 13:07:52 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | nah, there is just no place in a given concept of the industry to sit down one hour on a post and read it. We should not feel compelled to bow to that attitude |
| 2024-05-30 13:08:43 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | "make it a tweet" |
| 2024-05-30 13:09:07 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | too long, did not read. Wait this is too long! TLDR |
| 2024-05-30 13:09:43 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:94b5:b4e0:87f7:aaa5) |
| 2024-05-30 13:10:11 +0200 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 13:11:11 +0200 | <lortabac> | TBH we also have too many things to learn. It would be unrealistic to read everything in detail |
| 2024-05-30 13:11:56 +0200 | <lortabac> | deciding where to focus on is a skill |
| 2024-05-30 13:12:12 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | i think haskell's design is successful in providing a safe, expressive core one can work on for years. But of course we want to be machos and start our first app with monad transformers |
| 2024-05-30 13:13:47 +0200 | danse-nr3 | (~danse-nr3@151.47.143.144) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-05-30 13:14:12 +0200 | danse-nr3 | (~danse-nr3@151.47.143.144) |
| 2024-05-30 13:14:36 +0200 | nain | (~nain@37.19.205.146) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2024-05-30 13:20:01 +0200 | destituion | (~destituio@2a02:2121:2c1:d808:e5d8:f8e7:d625:4745) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 13:20:31 +0200 | destituion | (~destituio@85.221.111.174) |
| 2024-05-30 13:23:52 +0200 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: I think the problem with not looking too closely at what the computer tells you is usually confirmation bias. |
| 2024-05-30 13:24:12 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | that it's usually what you expected, so you look less? |
| 2024-05-30 13:24:14 +0200 | <dminuoso> | We developers like to think we're better than our tools, and we already have an established theory before having any diagnostics input. |
| 2024-05-30 13:24:33 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Yeah, indeed. |
| 2024-05-30 13:24:34 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | that sounds more like dunning-kruger than confirmation bias |
| 2024-05-30 13:24:51 +0200 | <dminuoso> | No, its really just confirmation bias. |
| 2024-05-30 13:25:09 +0200 | <dminuoso> | The first part was rather a bit of an interpretation |
| 2024-05-30 13:29:30 +0200 | remmie | (ianremsen@tilde.team) |
| 2024-05-30 13:29:48 +0200 | <ncf> | i don't think it's either of those things |
| 2024-05-30 13:32:15 +0200 | danse-nr3 | (~danse-nr3@151.47.143.144) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-05-30 13:39:04 +0200 | Feuermagier | (~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2024-05-30 13:48:23 +0200 | flounders | (~flounders@24.246.176.178) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 13:49:29 +0200 | flounders | (~flounders@24.246.176.178) |
| 2024-05-30 13:52:06 +0200 | danse-nr3 | (~danse-nr3@151.47.143.144) |
| 2024-05-30 13:52:55 +0200 | danse-nr3 | (~danse-nr3@151.47.143.144) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-05-30 13:53:34 +0200 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) |
| 2024-05-30 14:06:53 +0200 | <__monty__> | And TBF bad diagnostic messages are definitely a common thing. My favorite recent one is running a dynamically linked binary on Linux. If it can't find the runtime linker, something like /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, you get the error, "sh: /path/to/your/binary/that/exists: No such file or directory" |
| 2024-05-30 14:07:07 +0200 | xdminsy | (~xdminsy@117.147.70.212) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-05-30 14:08:13 +0200 | xdminsy | (~xdminsy@117.147.70.212) |
| 2024-05-30 14:11:12 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73d29.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 14:20:30 +0200 | sand-witch | (~m-mzmz6l@vmi833741.contaboserver.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-05-30 14:20:45 +0200 | arthurvl | (~arthurvl@2a02-a469-f5e2-1-83d2-ca43-57a2-dc81.fixed6.kpn.net) |
| 2024-05-30 14:21:01 +0200 | arthurvl | earthy |
| 2024-05-30 14:22:01 +0200 | sand-witch | (~m-mzmz6l@vmi833741.contaboserver.net) |
| 2024-05-30 14:33:15 +0200 | son0p | (~ff@191.104.16.31) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 14:36:05 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a05:5800:2da:8d00:e6b9:7aff:fe80:3d03) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 14:36:53 +0200 | remmie | (ianremsen@tilde.team) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 14:43:02 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@h-176-10-144-38.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 2024-05-30 14:57:34 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a05:5800:2da:8d00:e6b9:7aff:fe80:3d03) |
| 2024-05-30 15:01:55 +0200 | ars23 | (~ars23@79.114.53.79) |
| 2024-05-30 15:02:06 +0200 | ars23 | (~ars23@79.114.53.79) (Changing host) |
| 2024-05-30 15:02:06 +0200 | ars23 | (~ars23@user/ars23) |
| 2024-05-30 15:04:14 +0200 | sprout | (~quassel@84-80-106-227.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 15:08:49 +0200 | danse-nr3 | (~danse-nr3@151.35.245.180) |
| 2024-05-30 15:10:11 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2024-05-30 15:10:56 +0200 | sprout | (~quassel@2a02-a448-3a80-0-d87b-5f06-a0ad-e4e3.fixed6.kpn.net) |
| 2024-05-30 15:11:57 +0200 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:ab8a:5a00:591b:7783:d368:bb2c) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-05-30 15:12:07 +0200 | <dminuoso> | __monty__: I've had that problem before plenty of times, and I've finally come to the conclusion, that the diagnostic is not bad. |
| 2024-05-30 15:12:09 +0200 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:ab8a:5a00:42e5:ed60:6117:beec) |
| 2024-05-30 15:13:22 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Or rather, its a symptom of old designs colliding with modern user expectations. |
| 2024-05-30 15:13:35 +0200 | <dminuoso> | https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/execve.2.html |
| 2024-05-30 15:13:47 +0200 | <dminuoso> | `ENOENT The file pathname or a script or ELF interpreter does not exist.` |
| 2024-05-30 15:14:03 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Though arguably, the shell could at least say "No such file, or missing ELF interpreter" |
| 2024-05-30 15:14:26 +0200 | <dminuoso> | However, if in 99.999% of cases its just that the specified path is missing, would it do more damage if the ELF interpreter is missing? |
| 2024-05-30 15:14:58 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Or maybe execve should have received an additional error code, but that kind of infrastructure you cannot sensibly change. |
| 2024-05-30 15:16:59 +0200 | ocra8 | (ocra8@user/ocra8) |
| 2024-05-30 15:19:32 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 2024-05-30 15:20:26 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@88-125-6-227.subs.proxad.net) (Quit: WeeChat 4.2.1) |
| 2024-05-30 15:23:23 +0200 | <__monty__> | The problem is the rendering of the error message really, "<path>: No such file," is rather misleading. The shell could at least check whether <path> is an ELF and then add the "or missing ELF interpreter." |
| 2024-05-30 15:25:20 +0200 | mreh | (~matthew@host86-160-168-107.range86-160.btcentralplus.com) |
| 2024-05-30 15:36:10 +0200 | remmie | (ianremsen@tilde.team) |
| 2024-05-30 15:37:38 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | is there a term for a type in a sum type? How does "factor" sound to you? |
| 2024-05-30 15:38:00 +0200 | danse-nr3 | goes looking up for first-grade information material... OO |
| 2024-05-30 15:38:13 +0200 | <ncf> | products have factors, sums have terms or summands |
| 2024-05-30 15:38:41 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | right ... and the common term would be ...? Operands? |
| 2024-05-30 15:38:58 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | not that it suits in this context but... |
| 2024-05-30 15:39:03 +0200 | killy | (~killy@staticline-31-183-186-9.toya.net.pl) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 2024-05-30 15:40:03 +0200 | <danse-nr3> | "terms" is also overloaded, i will go with summands |
| 2024-05-30 15:40:37 +0200 | cfricke | (~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 15:41:16 +0200 | cfricke | (~cfricke@user/cfricke) |
| 2024-05-30 15:44:23 +0200 | mreh | (~matthew@host86-160-168-107.range86-160.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 15:52:05 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-189-95.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 2024-05-30 15:53:06 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d173-183-246-216.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 2024-05-30 15:54:45 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 15:55:20 +0200 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a05:5800:2da:8d00:e6b9:7aff:fe80:3d03) (Quit: CiaoSen) |
| 2024-05-30 15:56:01 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-003-083-232.176.3.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2024-05-30 15:57:07 +0200 | ars23 | (~ars23@user/ars23) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 15:57:51 +0200 | ars23 | (~ars23@79.114.53.79) |
| 2024-05-30 15:58:15 +0200 | ars23 | Guest2112 |
| 2024-05-30 16:00:51 +0200 | ars23 | (~ars23@2a02:2f09:3614:4900:d407:6f69:717f:f669) |
| 2024-05-30 16:01:15 +0200 | ars23 | Guest5837 |
| 2024-05-30 16:04:26 +0200 | Guest2112 | (~ars23@79.114.53.79) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 16:05:09 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) |
| 2024-05-30 16:15:59 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-003-083-232.176.3.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-05-30 16:19:48 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@77.22.252.56) |
| 2024-05-30 16:26:48 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-189-95.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-05-30 16:26:49 +0200 | <lxsameer> | Hey folks, I see people using `newtype App m a = App {unApp :: ReaderT Env m a}` to pass an static Env around. Why not `type App m a = ReaderT Env m a`? |
| 2024-05-30 16:28:31 +0200 | <c_wraith> | the two main reasons are error messages can be more specific and you can control the api more precisely. |
| 2024-05-30 16:31:16 +0200 | <lxsameer> | c_wraith: could you please elaborate? |
| 2024-05-30 16:33:41 +0200 | waleee | (~waleee@h-176-10-144-38.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 16:34:54 +0200 | <c_wraith> | Some people will also argue that implementation hiding allows for implementation changes more easily, but I don't really buy that in many cases. If you're changing the implementation in a way that's visible in the type, you're probably also changing enough of the API that things will need to adapt anyway. |
| 2024-05-30 16:36:21 +0200 | Guest5837 | (~ars23@2a02:2f09:3614:4900:d407:6f69:717f:f669) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-05-30 16:37:30 +0200 | <c_wraith> | So... type aliases get expanded. GHC doesn't do a pass to try to match types with existing aliases when reporting type errors. Sometimes it will already have the info on hand and use the alias, sometimes it won't use the alias. |
| 2024-05-30 16:37:56 +0200 | <c_wraith> | A newtype, on the other hand, is always a distinct type. It will always show up in type errors. |
| 2024-05-30 16:38:27 +0200 | <lxsameer> | ah got it |
| 2024-05-30 16:38:30 +0200 | <lxsameer> | thank you |
| 2024-05-30 16:38:40 +0200 | <c_wraith> | So you're allowed to compartmentalize your reasoning more. You can ignore what it expands to in a lot more cases. |
| 2024-05-30 16:39:28 +0200 | <c_wraith> | My other point was that ReaderT has a *huge* API, and sometimes you just don't want to expose all of it. You want something more narrowly-tailored to your use case. |
| 2024-05-30 16:39:50 +0200 | <c_wraith> | If you use a type alias, you don't have any choice - you get the whole ReaderT api. |
| 2024-05-30 16:40:25 +0200 | <c_wraith> | With a newtype, you get much better control over what you make available, so you can narrowly tailor it to your application's needs. |
| 2024-05-30 16:41:46 +0200 | <c_wraith> | This aspect also helps with documentation. You don't need to go searching around for every class with a ReaderT instance. You can put the entire API into a single module, if you like. |
| 2024-05-30 16:45:57 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@77.22.252.56) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-05-30 16:47:56 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-003-083-232.176.3.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2024-05-30 16:51:11 +0200 | rvalue | (~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-05-30 16:51:42 +0200 | rvalue | (~rvalue@user/rvalue) |
| 2024-05-30 16:54:11 +0200 | son0p | (~ff@186.121.56.64) |
| 2024-05-30 16:54:24 +0200 | danse-nr3 | (~danse-nr3@151.35.245.180) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 16:58:35 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-189-95.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 2024-05-30 17:06:49 +0200 | sprout | (~quassel@2a02-a448-3a80-0-d87b-5f06-a0ad-e4e3.fixed6.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 17:07:35 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-189-95.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2024-05-30 17:08:34 +0200 | Arsen | (arsen@gentoo/developer/managarm.dev.Arsen) (Quit: Quit.) |
| 2024-05-30 17:09:27 +0200 | Arsen | (arsen@aarsen.me) |
| 2024-05-30 17:09:50 +0200 | sprout | (~quassel@84-80-106-227.fixed.kpn.net) |
| 2024-05-30 17:09:51 +0200 | Arsen | Guest8883 |
| 2024-05-30 17:09:54 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) (Quit: WeeChat 4.2.1) |
| 2024-05-30 17:10:03 +0200 | Guest8883 | (arsen@aarsen.me) (Client Quit) |
| 2024-05-30 17:10:16 +0200 | destituion | (~destituio@85.221.111.174) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2024-05-30 17:10:21 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-189-95.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 2024-05-30 17:10:58 +0200 | econo_ | (uid147250@id-147250.tinside.irccloud.com) |
| 2024-05-30 17:13:41 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 2024-05-30 17:16:57 +0200 | destituion | (~destituio@2a02:2121:2c1:d808:3194:9b7f:f69a:e531) |
| 2024-05-30 17:24:48 +0200 | dsrt^ | (~cd@c-98-242-74-66.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 2024-05-30 17:27:07 +0200 | joeyadams | (~joeyadams@38.48.105.67) |