2024/05/07

2024-05-07 00:00:06 +0200xdminsy(~xdminsy@117.147.70.233) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2024-05-07 00:00:50 +0200xdminsy(~xdminsy@117.147.70.233)
2024-05-07 00:00:57 +0200paddymahoney(~paddymaho@pool-99-250-26-190.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
2024-05-07 00:12:41 +0200target_i(~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) (Quit: leaving)
2024-05-07 00:15:09 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa)
2024-05-07 00:24:31 +0200gmg(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-05-07 00:30:48 +0200y04nn(~username@2a03:1b20:8:f011::e10d)
2024-05-07 00:32:23 +0200tremon(~tremon@83.80.159.219) (Quit: getting boxed in)
2024-05-07 00:33:19 +0200philopsos1(~caecilius@user/philopsos)
2024-05-07 01:04:06 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e714dc4498a318f2cc30029a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2024-05-07 01:04:13 +0200emmanuelux_(~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux)
2024-05-07 01:06:54 +0200euphores(~SASL_euph@user/euphores) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-05-07 01:07:21 +0200emmanuelux(~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-05-07 01:07:21 +0200dontdieych_(~alarm@132.226.169.184) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-05-07 01:09:27 +0200dontdieych_(~alarm@132.226.169.184)
2024-05-07 01:11:49 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:e758:caa1:b0a5:cc6f) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-05-07 01:13:39 +0200paddymahoney(~paddymaho@pool-99-250-26-190.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2024-05-07 01:13:58 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:a053:399f:88bd:931d)
2024-05-07 01:14:14 +0200euphores(~SASL_euph@user/euphores)
2024-05-07 01:15:48 +0200paddymahoney(~paddymaho@pool-99-250-26-190.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
2024-05-07 01:25:25 +0200cheater(~Username@user/cheater) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-05-07 01:26:59 +0200philopsos1(~caecilius@user/philopsos) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024-05-07 01:27:02 +0200cheater(~Username@user/cheater)
2024-05-07 01:28:19 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2024-05-07 01:32:03 +0200mud(~mud@user/kadoban)
2024-05-07 01:34:08 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:a053:399f:88bd:931d) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-05-07 01:34:27 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:35ed:753d:5333:e2a3)
2024-05-07 01:52:30 +0200waleee(~waleee@h-176-10-144-38.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2024-05-07 01:59:42 +0200ezzieyguywuf(~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-05-07 02:04:13 +0200waleee(~waleee@h-176-10-144-38.NA.cust.bahnhof.se)
2024-05-07 02:24:48 +0200madariaga(~madariaga@user/madariaga)
2024-05-07 02:24:54 +0200y04nn(~username@2a03:1b20:8:f011::e10d) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-05-07 02:25:14 +0200y04nn(~username@2a03:1b20:8:f011::e10d)
2024-05-07 02:35:23 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-05-07 02:39:32 +0200mud(~mud@user/kadoban) (Quit: quit)
2024-05-07 02:46:42 +0200califax(~califax@user/califx)
2024-05-07 02:48:17 +0200sgarcia(sgarcia@swarm.znchost.com) (Quit: Hosted by www.ZNCHost.com)
2024-05-07 02:51:11 +0200sgarcia(sgarcia@swarm.znchost.com)
2024-05-07 02:51:41 +0200onion(~yin@user/zero) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2024-05-07 03:00:46 +0200waleee(~waleee@h-176-10-144-38.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-05-07 03:08:36 +0200thales(~thales@2a02:586:7e3a:cbe3:5221:8c84:e9f6:b7e4)
2024-05-07 03:08:57 +0200thales(~thales@2a02:586:7e3a:cbe3:5221:8c84:e9f6:b7e4) (Client Quit)
2024-05-07 03:20:47 +0200otto_s(~user@p4ff27405.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-05-07 03:22:31 +0200otto_s(~user@p5de2f3d2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2024-05-07 03:22:39 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:35ed:753d:5333:e2a3) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-05-07 03:23:30 +0200dispater(~dispater@mail.brprice.uk) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2024-05-07 03:23:30 +0200orcus(~orcus@mail.brprice.uk) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2024-05-07 03:25:19 +0200dispater(~dispater@mail.brprice.uk)
2024-05-07 03:25:21 +0200ezzieyguywuf(~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf)
2024-05-07 03:25:49 +0200orcus(~orcus@mail.brprice.uk)
2024-05-07 03:30:44 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com)
2024-05-07 03:34:55 +0200thales(~tram@2a02:586:7e3a:cbe3:5221:8c84:e9f6:b7e4)
2024-05-07 03:35:16 +0200thales(~tram@2a02:586:7e3a:cbe3:5221:8c84:e9f6:b7e4) (Client Quit)
2024-05-07 03:35:28 +0200thales(~tram@2a02:586:7e3a:cbe3:5221:8c84:e9f6:b7e4)
2024-05-07 03:36:06 +0200thales(~tram@2a02:586:7e3a:cbe3:5221:8c84:e9f6:b7e4) (Client Quit)
2024-05-07 03:39:14 +0200tram(~tram@2a02:586:7e3a:cbe3:5221:8c84:e9f6:b7e4)
2024-05-07 03:39:47 +0200jle`(~jle`@2603:8001:3b02:84d4:2ec9:5672:626b:934d) (Quit: WeeChat 4.2.1)
2024-05-07 03:42:14 +0200jle`(~jle`@2603:8001:3b02:84d4:55f8:739e:3296:6d3)
2024-05-07 03:43:56 +0200y04nn(~username@2a03:1b20:8:f011::e10d) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2024-05-07 03:46:00 +0200tram(~tram@2a02:586:7e3a:cbe3:5221:8c84:e9f6:b7e4) (Quit: Leaving.)
2024-05-07 04:01:49 +0200petrichor(~znc-user@user/petrichor) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2024-05-07 04:02:30 +0200ezzieyguywuf(~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-05-07 04:02:43 +0200petrichor(~znc-user@user/petrichor)
2024-05-07 04:07:46 +0200gastus_(~gastus@185.6.123.231)
2024-05-07 04:11:23 +0200gastus(~gastus@185.6.123.230) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024-05-07 04:12:26 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@125x103x176x34.ap125.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
2024-05-07 04:19:55 +0200YuutaW(~YuutaW@2404:f4c0:f9c3:502::100:17b7)
2024-05-07 04:21:05 +0200yuuta(~YuutaW@mail.yuuta.moe) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-05-07 04:22:07 +0200td_(~td@i53870908.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-05-07 04:23:25 +0200td_(~td@i53870936.versanet.de)
2024-05-07 04:30:35 +0200ezzieyguywuf(~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf)
2024-05-07 04:44:05 +0200terrorjack(~terrorjac@2a01:4f8:c17:87f8::) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2024-05-07 04:45:58 +0200terrorjack(~terrorjac@2a01:4f8:c17:87f8::)
2024-05-07 04:50:11 +0200ezzieyguywuf(~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2024-05-07 04:53:09 +0200amjoseph(~amjoseph@static-198-44-128-146.cust.tzulo.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-05-07 04:56:17 +0200mahid(~mahid@user/standingpad)
2024-05-07 04:56:27 +0200mahid(~mahid@user/standingpad) (WeeChat 4.2.2)
2024-05-07 05:00:53 +0200ezzieyguywuf(~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf)
2024-05-07 05:02:44 +0200amjoseph(~amjoseph@static-198-44-128-146.cust.tzulo.com)
2024-05-07 05:06:21 +0200y04nn(~username@2a03:1b20:8:f011::e10d)
2024-05-07 05:10:14 +0200ezzieyguywuf(~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2024-05-07 05:14:24 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@ool-44c73d29.dyn.optonline.net)
2024-05-07 05:19:53 +0200ezzieyguywuf(~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf)
2024-05-07 05:21:35 +0200paddymahoney(~paddymaho@pool-99-250-26-190.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2024-05-07 05:23:16 +0200paddymahoney(~paddymaho@pool-99-250-26-190.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
2024-05-07 05:25:45 +0200philopsos1(~caecilius@user/philopsos)
2024-05-07 05:30:33 +0200barak(~barak@2a0d:6fc2:68c1:7200:3cf2:a87d:a02b:3e21) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2024-05-07 05:34:09 +0200sgarcia_(sgarcia@swarm.znchost.com)
2024-05-07 05:36:26 +0200sgarcia(sgarcia@swarm.znchost.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-05-07 05:41:10 +0200ezzieyguywuf(~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2024-05-07 05:44:23 +0200ezzieyguywuf(~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf)
2024-05-07 05:48:28 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-05-07 05:48:59 +0200madariaga(~madariaga@user/madariaga) (Quit: madariaga)
2024-05-07 05:49:23 +0200madariaga(~madariaga@user/madariaga)
2024-05-07 05:49:26 +0200madariaga(~madariaga@user/madariaga) (Client Quit)
2024-05-07 05:53:48 +0200aforemny(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cc5:8500:df7:1fe7:b16:9d8d)
2024-05-07 05:55:28 +0200aforemny_(~aforemny@i59F516FD.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2024-05-07 05:58:18 +0200causal(~eric@50.35.88.207) (Quit: WeeChat 4.1.1)
2024-05-07 06:00:37 +0200phma(phma@2001:5b0:211f:8958:6fb4:94a7:6ad6:39b3) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-05-07 06:07:19 +0200phma(phma@2001:5b0:211b:8518:5596:60a:4e27:e0fb)
2024-05-07 06:13:33 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2024-05-07 06:14:28 +0200bgamari(~bgamari@64.223.226.84) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2024-05-07 06:15:31 +0200mei(~mei@user/mei) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2024-05-07 06:22:56 +0200bgamari(~bgamari@64.223.226.84)
2024-05-07 06:32:53 +0200philopsos1(~caecilius@user/philopsos) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2024-05-07 06:41:25 +0200philopsos(~caecilius@user/philopsos) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2024-05-07 06:42:23 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-05-07 06:44:42 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-005-142-147.176.5.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-05-07 06:51:27 +0200xal(~xal@mx1.xal.systems) ()
2024-05-07 06:51:37 +0200Square3(~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-05-07 06:52:25 +0200xal(~xal@mx1.xal.systems)
2024-05-07 06:53:59 +0200Square3(~Square4@user/square)
2024-05-07 06:59:27 +0200euphores(~SASL_euph@user/euphores) (Quit: Leaving.)
2024-05-07 07:01:46 +0200mei(~mei@user/mei)
2024-05-07 07:09:09 +0200Square3(~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-05-07 07:09:27 +0200philopsos(~caecilius@user/philopsos)
2024-05-07 07:17:15 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-005-142-147.176.5.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-05-07 07:17:21 +0200takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2024-05-07 07:17:33 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@77.22.252.56)
2024-05-07 07:17:51 +0200mokee(~mokee@37.228.213.214)
2024-05-07 07:19:00 +0200rosco(~rosco@yp-146-6.tm.net.my)
2024-05-07 07:23:50 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com)
2024-05-07 07:24:35 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Client Quit)
2024-05-07 07:25:11 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com)
2024-05-07 07:27:21 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@77.22.252.56) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2024-05-07 07:27:35 +0200todi1(~todi@p57803331.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2024-05-07 07:29:32 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-005-142-147.176.5.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-05-07 07:30:03 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-05-07 07:33:31 +0200todi1(~todi@p57803331.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2024-05-07 07:38:47 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d6e714dc75c420c579c8a75166.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2024-05-07 07:44:30 +0200michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.200)
2024-05-07 08:00:13 +0200julie_pilgrim(~julie_pil@user/julie-pilgrim/x-1240752)
2024-05-07 08:06:10 +0200michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.200) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2024-05-07 08:06:49 +0200Guest|8(~Guest|8@96-126-101-153.ip.linodeusercontent.com)
2024-05-07 08:09:07 +0200michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.222)
2024-05-07 08:09:30 +0200stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
2024-05-07 08:10:32 +0200Guest|8(~Guest|8@96-126-101-153.ip.linodeusercontent.com) (Client Quit)
2024-05-07 08:11:16 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
2024-05-07 08:12:25 +0200aforemny_(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cc7:5500:cf46:1b2c:d3fc:27bb)
2024-05-07 08:12:59 +0200aforemny(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cc5:8500:df7:1fe7:b16:9d8d) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2024-05-07 08:14:54 +0200stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-05-07 08:16:13 +0200stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
2024-05-07 08:17:07 +0200aforemny_(~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cc7:5500:cf46:1b2c:d3fc:27bb) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-05-07 08:17:24 +0200aforemny(~aforemny@i59F516DB.versanet.de)
2024-05-07 08:20:02 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-05-07 08:21:36 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
2024-05-07 08:21:59 +0200aforemny(~aforemny@i59F516DB.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-05-07 08:23:10 +0200y04nn(~username@2a03:1b20:8:f011::e10d) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-05-07 08:23:49 +0200aforemny(~aforemny@i59F516E3.versanet.de)
2024-05-07 08:24:42 +0200stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-05-07 08:24:42 +0200son0p(~ff@186.121.6.44) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2024-05-07 08:25:42 +0200julie_pilgrim(~julie_pil@user/julie-pilgrim/x-1240752) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-05-07 08:26:28 +0200stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
2024-05-07 08:30:18 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-05-07 08:31:36 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
2024-05-07 08:33:01 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-05-07 08:34:34 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2024-05-07 08:34:58 +0200stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-05-07 08:36:24 +0200stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
2024-05-07 08:40:06 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-05-07 08:41:31 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
2024-05-07 08:45:14 +0200stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-05-07 08:46:05 +0200phma(phma@2001:5b0:211b:8518:5596:60a:4e27:e0fb) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-05-07 08:46:37 +0200stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
2024-05-07 08:49:04 +0200phma(phma@2001:5b0:211f:8748:d5d8:f6f:3f3d:8bcc)
2024-05-07 08:50:22 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-05-07 08:51:34 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
2024-05-07 08:52:36 +0200sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937)
2024-05-07 08:55:02 +0200stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-05-07 08:56:34 +0200stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
2024-05-07 08:57:50 +0200danse-nr3(~danse-nr3@151.47.240.53)
2024-05-07 08:58:57 +0200philopsos(~caecilius@user/philopsos) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2024-05-07 09:00:10 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-05-07 09:01:26 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
2024-05-07 09:03:19 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-005-142-147.176.5.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-05-07 09:03:37 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2024-05-07 09:05:04 +0200philopsos1(~caecilius@user/philopsos)
2024-05-07 09:05:18 +0200stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-05-07 09:06:22 +0200stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
2024-05-07 09:07:04 +0200danse-nr3(~danse-nr3@151.47.240.53) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-05-07 09:07:26 +0200mokee(~mokee@37.228.213.214) (Quit: off)
2024-05-07 09:07:28 +0200danse-nr3(~danse-nr3@151.47.240.53)
2024-05-07 09:08:11 +0200todi(~todi@p57803331.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2024-05-07 09:09:32 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-05-07 09:10:23 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-73-164-206-160.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
2024-05-07 09:11:30 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
2024-05-07 09:15:06 +0200stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-05-07 09:16:30 +0200stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
2024-05-07 09:17:07 +0200troydm(~troydm@user/troydm) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2024-05-07 09:20:14 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-05-07 09:21:36 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
2024-05-07 09:21:41 +0200paddymahoney(~paddymaho@pool-99-250-26-190.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2024-05-07 09:25:22 +0200stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-05-07 09:25:35 +0200emmanuelux_(~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Quit: au revoir)
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2024-05-07 11:00:24 +0200ChanServ+o litharge
2024-05-07 11:00:26 +0200litharge+b stiell*!~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell$##fix_your_connection
2024-05-07 11:00:27 +0200stiell_litharge (You are banned from this channel (by ski))
2024-05-07 11:00:37 +0200litharge-o litharge
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2024-05-07 14:56:09 +0200 <dminuoso> litharge: Curious, what happened there?
2024-05-07 14:57:58 +0200ocra8(ocra8@user/ocra8)
2024-05-07 14:58:23 +0200 <yushyin> litharge is a bot, ask ski
2024-05-07 14:58:44 +0200 <dminuoso> Yeah that ski mention in the reason confused me further.
2024-05-07 14:58:52 +0200 <yushyin> ( https://libera.chat/guides/bots#litharge )
2024-05-07 14:59:06 +0200 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/browse/lchaskell?id=1271966#trid1271966 (scroll up from there)
2024-05-07 14:59:33 +0200 <tomsmeding> looks like ski doesn't have their client hide joins/leaves of quiet people :)
2024-05-07 14:59:35 +0200 <dminuoso> Oh. I must be spoiled with irc.look.smart_filter :-)
2024-05-07 14:59:44 +0200 <dminuoso> To me this channel was dead quiet.
2024-05-07 14:59:51 +0200 <yushyin> :D smart filter <3
2024-05-07 14:59:51 +0200 <tomsmeding> same
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2024-05-07 15:10:04 +0200tomsmeding(~tomsmedin@2a01:4f8:c0c:5e5e::2)
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2024-05-07 15:18:54 +0200kuribas(~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be)
2024-05-07 15:19:37 +0200 <kuribas> opqdonut: I see you are working on clojure reitit!
2024-05-07 15:20:05 +0200 <kuribas> I was trying to get $refs to work in openapi (unsuccessful), then I saw your name appear.
2024-05-07 15:21:59 +0200ircbrowse_tom(~ircbrowse@user/tomsmeding/bot/ircbrowse-tom)
2024-05-07 15:22:00 +0200Server+Cnt
2024-05-07 15:23:16 +0200todi(~todi@p57803331.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2024-05-07 15:23:46 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:ab8a:5a00:c45d:8c8a:5c4d:ef6b) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-05-07 15:23:59 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:ab8a:5a00:f7fe:a5d:216b:79ee)
2024-05-07 15:32:38 +0200billchenchina(~billchenc@2a0d:2580:ff0c:1:e3c9:c52b:a429:5bfe) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-05-07 15:35:37 +0200 <ski> <Axman6> Any chance we can ban stiell with a message until their connection it sorted out?
2024-05-07 15:35:43 +0200 <ski> (timeout one day)
2024-05-07 15:36:52 +0200tabemann__(~tabemann@172-13-49-137.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: Leaving)
2024-05-07 15:37:13 +0200tri(~tri@ool-18bbef1a.static.optonline.net)
2024-05-07 15:37:54 +0200 <ski> (a forward/redirect ban to ##fix_your_connection (which is forwardable to from any channel) is a common way to indicate this issue)
2024-05-07 15:38:05 +0200 <Franciman> does haskell have multi types?
2024-05-07 15:38:17 +0200 <kuribas> What are multi types?
2024-05-07 15:38:17 +0200 <dminuoso> What is a multi type?
2024-05-07 15:38:27 +0200 <Franciman> like intersection types, except non-idempotent
2024-05-07 15:38:44 +0200 <ski> no intersection types
2024-05-07 15:38:50 +0200 <Franciman> what about multi types then?
2024-05-07 15:38:53 +0200 <ski> how would the non-idempotence work ?
2024-05-07 15:38:56 +0200 <ncf> is that something you made up?
2024-05-07 15:38:58 +0200 <Franciman> no
2024-05-07 15:39:10 +0200 <Franciman> ski: you know how you can figure intersection types as "set" types?
2024-05-07 15:39:26 +0200 <Franciman> so sigma \cap tau \cap delta is an intersection type, you can represent as a set {sigma, tau, delta}
2024-05-07 15:39:30 +0200 <tomsmeding> Franciman: are you interested in whether Haskell2010 has multi types, whether GHC has them, or whether there is a library that emulates them?
2024-05-07 15:39:48 +0200 <Franciman> union of all the three
2024-05-07 15:39:51 +0200 <tomsmeding> (no, no, maybe)
2024-05-07 15:39:54 +0200 <Franciman> i know haskell2010 does not, so the last ones
2024-05-07 15:39:54 +0200 <ncf> what's the reference for multi types?
2024-05-07 15:40:18 +0200 <tomsmeding> s/maybe/you could change the world here/
2024-05-07 15:40:25 +0200 <ski> `sigma',`cap',`delta' are types as well ?
2024-05-07 15:40:33 +0200 <Franciman> \cap is the interseciton in latex, sorry
2024-05-07 15:40:53 +0200 <Franciman> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersection_type <- this
2024-05-07 15:40:53 +0200 <ski> dunno what "you can represent as a set {sigma, tau, delta}" really means, here
2024-05-07 15:41:13 +0200 <Franciman> if you remove the axiom that given an intersection type T, T \cap T = T
2024-05-07 15:41:20 +0200 <tomsmeding> presumably \Gamma \vdash t : T, where T is a set of types instead of a single type
2024-05-07 15:41:22 +0200 <Franciman> you get multi-types, it's a bit like going from sets to multisets
2024-05-07 15:41:25 +0200 <Franciman> yes
2024-05-07 15:41:31 +0200barak(~barak@2a0d:6fc2:68c1:7200:3cf2:a87d:a02b:3e21)
2024-05-07 15:41:33 +0200 <tomsmeding> s/set/list/ for multitypes, presumably
2024-05-07 15:41:44 +0200 <Franciman> yes
2024-05-07 15:41:50 +0200 <tomsmeding> what would unification do, just append the lists?
2024-05-07 15:41:50 +0200 <Franciman> except you don't care about ordering
2024-05-07 15:41:56 +0200 <tomsmeding> simplifying them in some magical way, perhaps?
2024-05-07 15:41:59 +0200 <Franciman> so more accuretely it's a multi set
2024-05-07 15:42:01 +0200 <tomsmeding> ah
2024-05-07 15:42:16 +0200tri(~tri@ool-18bbef1a.static.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-05-07 15:42:59 +0200 <dminuoso> Well, type-level lists are a thing.
2024-05-07 15:43:05 +0200 <dminuoso> '[Int, Int, Double]
2024-05-07 15:43:08 +0200 <dminuoso> Is that what you mean, Franciman?
2024-05-07 15:43:13 +0200 <Franciman> and can you characterize termination with type level lists?
2024-05-07 15:43:42 +0200 <Franciman> depending on the type system you use, you can characterize different types of terminations
2024-05-07 15:43:44 +0200 <dminuoso> Not sure what you mean by "characterize termination with type level lists"
2024-05-07 15:43:57 +0200 <tomsmeding> type-level lists are simply lists on the type level
2024-05-07 15:44:09 +0200 <tomsmeding> you'd still have to write the machinery to interpret them as multitypes
2024-05-07 15:44:14 +0200tabemann(~tabemann@172-13-49-137.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
2024-05-07 15:44:23 +0200 <Franciman> i wonder whether we can encode all the rules
2024-05-07 15:44:23 +0200 <dminuoso> Not entirely sure what "interpretation as multitype" even means
2024-05-07 15:44:30 +0200 <tomsmeding> perhaps a HList with a suitable API would do
2024-05-07 15:44:48 +0200 <tomsmeding> instead of a single value with multiple types, represent the thing as a list of n times the same value, each time with a different type
2024-05-07 15:45:17 +0200 <Franciman> are yo ufamiliar with Dezani-Ciancaglini and Coppo's work?
2024-05-07 15:45:19 +0200 <tomsmeding> and have an API that interacts with that heterogeneous list so that you can only do things that typecheck with all the types in the type-level index
2024-05-07 15:45:48 +0200 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: Franciman is talking about a very different type system where the "kind" (I guess) of the typing judgement is not Env -> Term -> Type but instead Env -> Term -> MultiSet Type
2024-05-07 15:46:25 +0200 <ncf> found this https://www.irif.fr/~gmanzone/ens/lambda/notes.pdf
2024-05-07 15:46:38 +0200 <tomsmeding> Franciman: I strongly suspect the best answer you're going to get here is, "if you can't find the library on the internet, it probably doesn't exist"
2024-05-07 15:46:52 +0200 <tomsmeding> GHC absolutely has no native support for anything in this direction
2024-05-07 15:46:55 +0200 <Franciman> yes ncf nice reference
2024-05-07 15:47:01 +0200 <Franciman> you could also enjoy
2024-05-07 15:47:02 +0200rvalue(~rvalue@user/rvalue)
2024-05-07 15:47:05 +0200 <Franciman> https://www.irif.fr/~kesner/papers/bucciarelli-kesner-ventura-igpl.pdf this
2024-05-07 15:47:23 +0200Lears(~Leary]@user/Leary/x-0910699)
2024-05-07 15:47:50 +0200 <ski> Franciman : are these intersection types supposed to be (or support) "ad hoc" (e.g. being able to intersect `Double' and `Int'), or only being able to take the intersection of features that each of the component types support (like e.g. intersection of fields in record types, but also applied recursively through the structure of types) ?
2024-05-07 15:47:51 +0200 <ncf> ha, i took a class by one of these guys (not on multi types, though)
2024-05-07 15:48:30 +0200rosco(~rosco@yp-146-6.tm.net.my) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2024-05-07 15:48:56 +0200rosco(~rosco@yp-146-6.tm.net.my)
2024-05-07 15:49:08 +0200 <Franciman> ski: depending on the framework you work on
2024-05-07 15:49:34 +0200 <Franciman> but if t is a term of type {T_1, T_2}
2024-05-07 15:49:42 +0200 <Franciman> then you can deduce both t : T_1 and t : T_2
2024-05-07 15:49:49 +0200[Leary](~Leary]@user/Leary/x-0910699) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-05-07 15:50:24 +0200skiwould really not use set notation here, since it gives misleading connotations
2024-05-07 15:50:30 +0200 <Franciman> why not?
2024-05-07 15:50:33 +0200 <Franciman> it's exactly the same thing
2024-05-07 15:50:37 +0200 <Franciman> thin kabout it
2024-05-07 15:50:59 +0200 <ski> because `x in {a,b}' is equivalent to `x = a or x = b', set-theoretically
2024-05-07 15:51:14 +0200 <Franciman> UHHHHHHHM okay
2024-05-07 15:51:18 +0200 <Franciman> kinda strange minded, but i see it
2024-05-07 15:52:17 +0200 <ski> if you write ⌜x : ⋀ {a,b}⌝, that would be okay, from that POV, imho
2024-05-07 15:53:10 +0200 <ski> er, well, i suppose ⌜⋂⌝, rather than ⌜⋀⌝, actually
2024-05-07 15:53:38 +0200micro(~micro@user/micro) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2024-05-07 15:53:47 +0200 <ncf> so this seems like a restriction of linear logic to just ⊗ and ⊸, where ⊗ can only appear in domains
2024-05-07 15:54:15 +0200 <ski> (and you could use multiset/bag brackets, instead of set brackets, so ⌜x : ⋂ ⟅a,b⟆⌝, to emphasize non-idempotence)
2024-05-07 15:56:36 +0200 <danse-nr3> fanciest brackets i have seen in a while...
2024-05-07 15:59:30 +0200 <ski> "this seems like a restriction of linear logic to just ⊗ and ⊸" -- the aforementioned paper ?
2024-05-07 15:59:41 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2024-05-07 15:59:41 +0200 <danse-nr3> i don't know much about multi-types, but intersection types look like interfaces from what i quickly found? Aren't haskell classes something like that?
2024-05-07 16:00:20 +0200 <ncf> ski: well i was looking at notes.pdf, i assume they describe the same system
2024-05-07 16:01:16 +0200micro(~micro@user/micro)
2024-05-07 16:01:49 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-004-187-187.176.4.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-05-07 16:03:22 +0200 <ski> Franciman : yea, anyway. the point of my question was really kinda asking about which kind of operational semantics you want .. do you want to pass around multiple values, for a term of an intersection type (and then picking out a part of the intersection corresponds to projecting out the desired value out of those, so more like ad hoc overloading, except also resolvable at run-time) ? or do you intend for
2024-05-07 16:03:23 +0200ezzieyguywuf(~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2024-05-07 16:03:28 +0200 <ski> the same run-time value to be simultaneously of all the relevant types (so more like type-erasure for polymorphism, or subsumption for subtyping) ?
2024-05-07 16:05:05 +0200ezzieyguywuf(~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf)
2024-05-07 16:05:55 +0200 <ski> Franciman : hm, also, if you have intersection of `tau' and `tau', how does that differ from simply `tau' (so wherein does the non-idempotence lie) ?
2024-05-07 16:08:53 +0200demon-cat(~demon-cat@dund-15-b2-v4wan-169642-cust1347.vm6.cable.virginm.net)
2024-05-07 16:09:00 +0200 <ski> "The multi set semantics is in fact exactly the relational semantics of LL restricted to the image of the (CbN) encoding of λ-terms." sounds interesting
2024-05-07 16:09:09 +0200 <ski> ("LL" referring to "Linear Logic")
2024-05-07 16:09:35 +0200 <danse-nr3> we lost Franciman i am afraid...
2024-05-07 16:09:59 +0200 <ski> they might just be swapping and thrashing a bit
2024-05-07 16:10:03 +0200tri(~tri@ool-18bbef1a.static.optonline.net)
2024-05-07 16:11:46 +0200 <ncf> ski: it seems like the non-idempotence makes a difference because you additionally remove weakening and contraction
2024-05-07 16:12:00 +0200ats49(~ats@185.57.29.142)
2024-05-07 16:12:08 +0200 <ncf> so if a term has type [τ, τ] you can use it twice, basically
2024-05-07 16:12:17 +0200 <ncf> s/term/function input/
2024-05-07 16:12:32 +0200 <ncf> s/can/must/?
2024-05-07 16:13:46 +0200 <ski> i suppose must, with no weakening
2024-05-07 16:13:57 +0200 <ski> modulo presence of modalities like "of course", of course
2024-05-07 16:14:37 +0200tri(~tri@ool-18bbef1a.static.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-05-07 16:14:59 +0200 <ski> well, i guess weakening does seem to be implicitly included in rules with zero premisses
2024-05-07 16:15:11 +0200 <ski> (see `ax', page 4)
2024-05-07 16:16:03 +0200 <ncf> that's the "set types" system
2024-05-07 16:16:10 +0200 <ski> mhm
2024-05-07 16:16:11 +0200 <ncf> ax rule for multi types is on page 8
2024-05-07 16:16:26 +0200ski's still skimming back and forth a bit
2024-05-07 16:16:38 +0200 <ski> right
2024-05-07 16:17:47 +0200 <ski> now i'm wondering whether contexts can include multiple typings for the same identifier (and whether the function abstraction just removes one of them)
2024-05-07 16:19:03 +0200 <ncf> seems like contexts are assignments of multisets to variables
2024-05-07 16:19:24 +0200 <ncf> so, no, but yes
2024-05-07 16:19:31 +0200ats49(~ats@185.57.29.142) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2024-05-07 16:21:40 +0200 <ski> mm, so they're gathered together
2024-05-07 16:22:40 +0200johnw(~johnw@69.62.242.138) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-05-07 16:22:53 +0200johnw(~johnw@69.62.242.138)
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2024-05-07 16:24:51 +0200danse-nr3(~danse-nr3@151.43.102.160)
2024-05-07 16:25:29 +0200lg188(~lg188@82.18.98.230) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2024-05-07 16:28:13 +0200 <Franciman> sorry here i am
2024-05-07 16:28:15 +0200 <Franciman> i was in the bathroom
2024-05-07 16:28:28 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-05-07 16:28:30 +0200 <Franciman> ski: eheheh, you can use the non-idempotence to count the number of occurrences of a term
2024-05-07 16:28:36 +0200 <Franciman> that's where things get kinda interesting :D
2024-05-07 16:28:52 +0200 <Franciman> EXACTLY
2024-05-07 16:28:59 +0200 <Franciman> multi-types is related to linear logic and resource management
2024-05-07 16:29:27 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-05-07 16:29:39 +0200 <ski> i'm wondering about an example of a term with an intersection type of `sigma' and `tau', where those two are not identical types
2024-05-07 16:29:46 +0200 <Franciman> yes ski
2024-05-07 16:29:49 +0200 <Franciman> (\x. x x)
2024-05-07 16:30:11 +0200 <Franciman> it has type [[sigma], [sigma]->tau] -> tau
2024-05-07 16:30:25 +0200 <Franciman> so in there, x : [sigma, [sigma]-> tau]
2024-05-07 16:30:27 +0200 <ski> (\x. x x) : tau where tau = tau -> omega
2024-05-07 16:30:52 +0200 <ski> (this works with `ocaml -rectypes', if you try `fun x -> x x')
2024-05-07 16:31:00 +0200 <Franciman> as the word says: fun!
2024-05-07 16:33:38 +0200rosco(~rosco@yp-146-6.tm.net.my) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2024-05-07 16:34:27 +0200 <Franciman> also, do get me for an expert, i'm just learning, and i was wondering whether i could use haskell to experiment
2024-05-07 16:34:36 +0200 <ski> # fun x -> x x;;
2024-05-07 16:34:38 +0200 <ski> - : ('a -> 'b as 'a) -> 'b = <fun>
2024-05-07 16:34:52 +0200 <ski> # let foo : 'tau -> 'omega as 'tau = fun x -> x x;;
2024-05-07 16:34:54 +0200 <ski> val foo : 'a -> 'omega as 'a = <fun>
2024-05-07 16:35:28 +0200 <ski> you can experiment with a lot of things, in Haskell
2024-05-07 16:35:42 +0200 <ski> e.g. writing your own type system or language prototypes
2024-05-07 16:36:23 +0200 <ski> or fiddling around with trying to encode some effect of feature, in terms of existing Haskell language features or extensions
2024-05-07 16:37:40 +0200 <ski> (experimenting with type systems stuff can also be fun to do, in e.g. lambdaProlog, Twelf, Agda, or somesuch)
2024-05-07 16:40:03 +0200tri(~tri@ool-18bbef1a.static.optonline.net)
2024-05-07 16:40:28 +0200 <ski> (lambdaProlog is a logic programming language with support for lambda terms (including (incomplete) unification), you can use this to do HOAS (higher-order abstract syntax), including being able to match under the (meta-)lambdas. Twelf is like a dependently typed version of lambdaProlog, kinda. but you can still do ordinary logic programming in it, e.g. to search for proofs. you can also use its mode system
2024-05-07 16:40:35 +0200 <ski> to prove meta-theorems. Agda is a dependently typed language based on functional programming, rather than logic programming)
2024-05-07 16:40:36 +0200 <Franciman> lambdaProlog is damn kewl
2024-05-07 16:40:41 +0200 <ski> it sure is
2024-05-07 16:43:11 +0200 <ski> (Twelf also has HOAS support, including matching, in case that wasn't clear from what i said. in Agda, you can't match on functions (apart from calling them), since they're computational .. except that sometimes you do know statically/definitionally something about them. lambdaProlog (and Twelf) doesn't have (full) computational terms, there's only beta- and eta- conversion for functions, there's no `case',
2024-05-07 16:43:17 +0200 <ski> no recursion for functions. you do your computation with predicates/relations, instead)
2024-05-07 16:44:49 +0200tri(~tri@ool-18bbef1a.static.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2024-05-07 16:46:17 +0200dtman34(~dtman34@2601:447:d001:ed50:f596:52e1:73ca:629d)
2024-05-07 16:48:17 +0200 <ski> (lambdaProlog (and Twelf) also has, from a logic programming standpoint, support for locally assuming extra clauses for predicates, and locally introducing new constants (skolems) of given types. e.g. when you traverse an AST with a bound variable, you locally introduce a new constant, substituting it for the bound variable in the AST, and commonly also locally assume some extra clauses for the constant,
2024-05-07 16:48:23 +0200 <ski> e.g. it being assigned a given (object type) (if doing type checking/inference), before traversing into the body of the binder. these local constants and assumptions then automatically vanish after the completion of that, unlike using assert[az]/1,retract/1,gensym/1 in Prolog)
2024-05-07 16:51:08 +0200 <ski> (from a programming standpoint, these features are a kind of dynamic scope thing, and can be used for somewhat similar effect you could use dynamic scope for in other languages. it's just that they also have a perfectly sensible logical/declarative semantics here (meaning of implication, and of universal quantification))
2024-05-07 16:53:23 +0200lg188(~lg188@82.18.98.230)
2024-05-07 16:57:18 +0200rosco(~rosco@yp-146-6.tm.net.my)
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2024-05-07 17:00:26 +0200 <lortabac> ski: that's the feature I miss the most in Prolog
2024-05-07 17:00:29 +0200todi(~todi@p57803331.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2024-05-07 17:00:34 +0200 <lortabac> I didn't know lambdaProlog had it
2024-05-07 17:00:39 +0200chexum(~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-05-07 17:01:04 +0200 <lortabac> having to define everything at top-level is annoying sometimes
2024-05-07 17:01:28 +0200img(~img@user/img)
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2024-05-07 17:13:49 +0200Mach(~Mach@86.127.202.233)
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2024-05-07 17:27:09 +0200 <kuribas> Can you program in these languages?
2024-05-07 17:27:21 +0200 <kuribas> Or are they more theorem provers/research languages?
2024-05-07 17:27:38 +0200 <kuribas> A statically typed prolog sounds appealing :)
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2024-05-07 18:13:45 +0200philopsos(~caecilius@user/philopsos)
2024-05-07 18:14:53 +0200 <ski> kuribas : you can program in lambdaProlog, it has I/O and stuff. Twelf doesn't have any built-in I/O though, apart from the interactor (though i str seeing some program used to wrap that, feeding the interactor with queries, then parsing the result substitutions and doing something with them)
2024-05-07 18:17:15 +0200darius87(~darius@93.126.130.253)
2024-05-07 18:17:19 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d173-183-246-216.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2024-05-07 18:18:09 +0200 <ski> kuribas : for statically typed Prolog, Mercury might be closer, though. it has predicates/relations as well as functions (both can be higher-order), statical types, statical modes (& insts) and determinisms, (parameterizable) algebraic data types, parametric polymorphism, type classes (not higher-order, though), existentials (actual existential quantification, also output type class constraints)
2024-05-07 18:20:00 +0200 <ski> oh, and it's purely declarative, no side-effects (well, it also has an impurity tracking system, but it's mainly used for FFI stuff, before wrapping in a pure interface), it does I/O and mutable data structures through uniqueness (similar to Clean, except that Mercury tracks this in insts (instantiation states), not in types), you thread an I/O state through your I/O interactions
2024-05-07 18:20:03 +0200sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Quit: sord937)
2024-05-07 18:20:12 +0200 <ski> see <https://www.mercurylang.org/> and #mercury
2024-05-07 18:21:13 +0200sawilagar(~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2024-05-07 18:21:50 +0200 <ski> @tell lortabac well, having locally (lexically/scoped) definitions isn't quite the same thing as what i was talking about in lambdaProlog (although you can also lexically scope some clauses defining a predicate, over (part of) another predicate clause, if you wish to)
2024-05-07 18:21:50 +0200 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
2024-05-07 18:22:35 +0200darius87(~darius@93.126.130.253) (Quit: Client closed)
2024-05-07 18:24:16 +0200 <ski> lambdaProlog has .. more or less, algebraic datatypes (but you don't declare the constructors together with the type, in a single declaration. and you can, later, declare more constructors, if you want to. although, with the module system of Teyjus (a compiler for lambdaProlog, compiling to a bytecode for a WAM-like machine, similar to many Prolog implementations), iirc, you can restrict who (if anyone) can
2024-05-07 18:24:22 +0200 <ski> later add more constructors (or new clauses for a predicate, for that matter)
2024-05-07 18:24:35 +0200 <ski> it also has parametric polymorphism, but no dependent types
2024-05-07 18:26:47 +0200 <ski> if one consider the HOAS representation (including some kind of unification of lambda terms, up to alpha, beta, and eta conversion) a killer feature of lambdaProlog (and Twelf), then that's the reason it also has implicational goals, and universal quantification goals, because without the latter two, the first one is not as useful
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2024-05-07 18:28:47 +0200 <ski> however, iirc, there's an implementation of (a restriction of) Lolli (called LolliMon, iirc), which uses a more Prolog-like syntax (uncurried rather than curried predicates), which doesn't have lambda-terms, but does have implication and universal quantification goals, so evidently people considered the latter two useful even without the former
2024-05-07 18:29:18 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-004-187-187.176.4.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-05-07 18:29:35 +0200kuribas(~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1))
2024-05-07 18:29:37 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2024-05-07 18:29:54 +0200 <ski> (Lolli is a version of lambdaProlog using linear logic. it is dynamically typed)
2024-05-07 18:30:03 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-05-07 18:30:55 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2024-05-07 18:31:17 +0200demon-cat(~demon-cat@dund-15-b2-v4wan-169642-cust1347.vm6.cable.virginm.net)
2024-05-07 18:31:25 +0200 <ski> lambdaProlog <https://www.lix.polytechnique.fr/Labo/Dale.Miller/lProlog/>,Lolli <https://www.lix.polytechnique.fr/Labo/Dale.Miller/lolli/>
2024-05-07 18:31:49 +0200 <ski> Twelf <https://twelf.org/>
2024-05-07 18:39:07 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-73-164-206-160.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
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2024-05-07 20:38:53 +0200 <disgrunt> This is less a Haskell question and more a general knowledge of lambda calculus (hopefully to understand and implement a calculus of constructions):  Is there a good book that can teach the theory and notation to a skilled procedural language programmer?
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2024-05-07 20:50:45 +0200 <monochrom> Go straight to setting yourself up for calculi of constructions: Read the official book for Coq or the official book for Lean.
2024-05-07 20:51:07 +0200 <monochrom> or the official book for Agda.
2024-05-07 20:52:19 +0200 <ncf> maybe https://kar.kent.ac.uk/20998/1/ttfp.pdf
2024-05-07 20:52:35 +0200 <monochrom> Because every book that says "lambda calculus" in the title is heading to somewhere else right after the basic (the first 10%).
2024-05-07 20:53:53 +0200 <disgrunt> monochrom:  I'm interested in implementing something like Coq or Lean and not using it.
2024-05-07 20:54:46 +0200 <monochrom> But you first learn what it should look like to users (the specification) before there is anything to implement for.
2024-05-07 20:55:40 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
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2024-05-07 20:55:48 +0200 <monochrom> And they teach calculi of constructions.
2024-05-07 20:56:09 +0200 <disgrunt> Thanks all for the input.
2024-05-07 20:57:02 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2024-05-07 20:59:41 +0200 <mauke> petition to rename "calculus" to "pebble"
2024-05-07 21:00:22 +0200 <monochrom> Pebbles of construction will brick your home router! >:)
2024-05-07 21:00:32 +0200 <glguy> Sorry, we're not currently accepting rename requests for calculus
2024-05-07 21:01:52 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
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2024-05-07 21:02:25 +0200 <monochrom> Hell, s/10%/1%/
2024-05-07 21:04:34 +0200 <mauke> also, "lambda" is just greek for L, so lambda calculus => the L pebble
2024-05-07 21:04:51 +0200 <monochrom> No, lowercase l :)
2024-05-07 21:05:22 +0200 <int-e> mauke: so how is life in your house of pebbles?
2024-05-07 21:05:31 +0200 <kaol> Anyone have more than 32GB RAM? I'd be interested to hear how much more is enough to run the 25m dataset on my little program. https://gitlab.com/kaol/recommender-als
2024-05-07 21:06:14 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
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2024-05-07 21:13:57 +0200 <meejah> shapr does ;)
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2024-05-07 21:23:35 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2024-05-07 21:32:44 +0200euphores(~SASL_euph@user/euphores) (Quit: Leaving.)
2024-05-07 21:35:36 +0200 <energizer> is there a value x that trying to do anything with it other than `isx x` will fail? even identity or putting it in a list
2024-05-07 21:35:38 +0200demon-cat(~demon-cat@dund-15-b2-v4wan-169642-cust1347.vm6.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2024-05-07 21:36:08 +0200 <tomsmeding> is not the whole point of polymorphism that you can instantiate a type variable with _anything_
2024-05-07 21:36:28 +0200 <tomsmeding> I mean, I guess an unboxed value would count as "cannot put it in a list"
2024-05-07 21:36:39 +0200 <tomsmeding> but that's incidental, you can write a list type of unboxed integers and then you can put one in there
2024-05-07 21:37:23 +0200 <ncf> what's isx?
2024-05-07 21:38:23 +0200 <mauke> six but spelled sideways
2024-05-07 21:38:23 +0200 <energizer> is x
2024-05-07 21:40:08 +0200 <energizer> what's the difference between this x and `undefined`?
2024-05-07 21:40:21 +0200 <tomsmeding> I can put 'undefined' in a list
2024-05-07 21:42:00 +0200 <mauke> > length [undefined, undefined]
2024-05-07 21:42:01 +0200 <lambdabot> 2
2024-05-07 21:42:44 +0200euphores(~SASL_euph@user/euphores)
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2024-05-07 21:49:50 +0200demon-cat(~demon-cat@dund-15-b2-v4wan-169642-cust1347.vm6.cable.virginm.net)
2024-05-07 21:50:03 +0200Rodney_(~Rodney@176.254.244.83)
2024-05-07 21:50:24 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d173-183-246-216.abhsia.telus.net)
2024-05-07 21:51:19 +0200 <EvanR> it sounds like x isn't much of a value
2024-05-07 21:51:26 +0200phma(~phma@2001:5b0:212a:9dd8:b0f:f357:db6e:4d49)
2024-05-07 21:51:28 +0200 <EvanR> since it seems to know about the context it is used in
2024-05-07 21:53:15 +0200 <EvanR> like a $20 bill that you somehow can't spent except on a specific commodity
2024-05-07 21:54:19 +0200demon-cat(~demon-cat@dund-15-b2-v4wan-169642-cust1347.vm6.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-05-07 21:54:20 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-05-07 21:56:34 +0200philopsos1(~caecilius@user/philopsos)
2024-05-07 22:01:05 +0200 <monochrom> My question is: What is the motivation? There is a better question behind this.
2024-05-07 22:03:01 +0200 <monochrom> Alternatively, let's use minimalism. Don't even provide x and isx. Then no one can use them wrong.
2024-05-07 22:03:29 +0200 <monochrom> More people should use the subtraction method. Delete more code.
2024-05-07 22:04:29 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-05-07 22:04:33 +0200 <EvanR> that would not satisfy one of the goals "x exists"
2024-05-07 22:04:52 +0200 <EvanR> constructively speaking
2024-05-07 22:05:06 +0200 <glguy> Maybe we need universities to run introduction to deprogramming courses
2024-05-07 22:05:10 +0200 <monochrom> You can always remember x. Then it exists in your mind, and no one can take it away. Or use it wrong. :)
2024-05-07 22:05:58 +0200 <monochrom> But s/$20 bill/$20 coupon/ and that one is a pretty common thing IRL. :)
2024-05-07 22:06:57 +0200 <monochrom> In which case the better analogy is "$20 coupon but you can only put it in your left pocket not the right pocket" which is WTF and that would be right, WTF.
2024-05-07 22:07:00 +0200 <EvanR> yeah but imagine if it was a real legal tender $20 USD note, or canadian if necessary, it just doesn't work
2024-05-07 22:07:32 +0200 <monochrom> Oh I'm just sharpening the analogy. I'm with you. :)
2024-05-07 22:07:40 +0200 <EvanR> as if anyone you presented it to could see some identifying mark and it was a vast conspiracy
2024-05-07 22:08:32 +0200tri(~tri@ool-18bbef1a.static.optonline.net)
2024-05-07 22:08:36 +0200 <EvanR> oh yeah, only goes in left pocket is a good one
2024-05-07 22:08:49 +0200causal(~eric@50.35.88.207)
2024-05-07 22:08:50 +0200waleee(~waleee@h-176-10-144-38.NA.cust.bahnhof.se)
2024-05-07 22:09:42 +0200demon-cat(~demon-cat@dund-15-b2-v4wan-169642-cust1347.vm6.cable.virginm.net)
2024-05-07 22:11:07 +0200 <cheater> energizer: it's easy to create something like this in the following way
2024-05-07 22:11:22 +0200 <cheater> 1. start a new module
2024-05-07 22:11:27 +0200 <cheater> 2. add x :: MySpecialType
2024-05-07 22:11:40 +0200 <cheater> 3. add isx :: MySpecialType -> Bool
2024-05-07 22:11:59 +0200 <cheater> 4. export x, isx, and not MySpecialType
2024-05-07 22:12:10 +0200 <tomsmeding> then you can still put x in a list
2024-05-07 22:12:18 +0200 <cheater> right
2024-05-07 22:12:24 +0200 <cheater> i was just getting to that
2024-05-07 22:12:29 +0200 <cheater> so like
2024-05-07 22:12:44 +0200 <monochrom> It is perhaps acceptable. This is why the better answer is asking back "what is the motivation?" like I did.
2024-05-07 22:12:45 +0200 <cheater> wouldn't making MySpecialType a different kind than Type be a good way of stopping that from happening?
2024-05-07 22:13:03 +0200 <tomsmeding> covered that with unboxed ints above
2024-05-07 22:13:05 +0200 <tomsmeding> I concur with monochrom
2024-05-07 22:13:08 +0200tri(~tri@ool-18bbef1a.static.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-05-07 22:13:19 +0200 <cheater> right
2024-05-07 22:13:21 +0200 <EvanR> make a custom kind and don't export the kind xD
2024-05-07 22:13:27 +0200 <cheater> hmm
2024-05-07 22:13:30 +0200 <cheater> is that a thing?
2024-05-07 22:13:37 +0200 <tomsmeding> then I make a polykinded list type lol
2024-05-07 22:13:37 +0200 <cheater> could this work?
2024-05-07 22:13:39 +0200 <EvanR> then you can't even create your own custom kind list
2024-05-07 22:13:43 +0200 <EvanR> oh
2024-05-07 22:13:48 +0200phma(~phma@2001:5b0:212a:9dd8:b0f:f357:db6e:4d49) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-05-07 22:14:57 +0200 <EvanR> x is a value which can only be used with the function isx and this sentence defining itself
2024-05-07 22:15:34 +0200madariaga(~madariaga@user/madariaga)
2024-05-07 22:15:36 +0200 <EvanR> (this should put an end to the convo)
2024-05-07 22:16:03 +0200 <EvanR> (you can't even undefine ..... it)
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