2026/04/09

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2026-04-09 19:29:13 +0000ChanServ+v haskellbridge
2026-04-09 19:29:13 +0000haskellbridge(~hackager@96.28.224.214) hackager
2026-04-09 19:28:41 +0000 <EvanR> but yeah I could see how jensen's device exploits basically lazy evaluation with side effects?
2026-04-09 19:27:31 +0000 <EvanR> sometimes I think that 3 different names might be 3 different things, especially since algol predates GHC by a minute
2026-04-09 19:26:59 +0000 <tomsmeding> but "call by name" is intended to be the semantics encompassing all operational behaviours that are semantically equivalent to that one, including call-by-need as GHC does
2026-04-09 19:26:51 +0000uli-fem(~uli-fem@115.128.112.118) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2026-04-09 19:26:30 +0000 <tomsmeding> which is incredibly pointless as an actual operational implementation
2026-04-09 19:26:17 +0000 <tomsmeding> the typical operational presentation I've seen of "call by name" is "`(\x -> e1) e2` reduces to `e1[e2/x]`", i.e. function application is just inlining of the argument _term_ into the function body
2026-04-09 19:25:24 +0000 <tomsmeding> I think "call by name" means "lazy evaluation"
2026-04-09 19:23:03 +0000 <EvanR> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jensen's_device
2026-04-09 19:22:39 +0000haskellbridge(~hackager@96.28.224.214) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2026-04-09 19:22:39 +0000 <EvanR> going by this gem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jensen%27s_device
2026-04-09 19:22:33 +0000uli-fem(~uli-fem@115.128.112.118)
2026-04-09 19:20:46 +0000 <EvanR> call by name on the other hand seems to step outside the subject of evaluation
2026-04-09 19:20:40 +0000jmcantrell_(~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell
2026-04-09 19:19:10 +0000mulk(~mulk@pd95147f8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) mulk
2026-04-09 19:17:50 +0000 <tomsmeding> so I'd say still call by value, just with some syntax for passing a non-null pointer
2026-04-09 19:17:26 +0000 <tomsmeding> but still eager evaluation
2026-04-09 19:17:19 +0000 <tomsmeding> C++ has references which get you pass-by-reference
2026-04-09 19:17:05 +0000 <tomsmeding> C is definitely call by value
2026-04-09 19:16:43 +0000 <EvanR> C and Java both being presented as call by value only, and not just call by value sometimes
2026-04-09 19:16:42 +0000 <monochrom> Sometimes I say "pass by reference, pass by value" when it's only about cloning the argument vs passing an address.
2026-04-09 19:16:41 +0000 <tomsmeding> those things mean the same to me, in any case
2026-04-09 19:16:13 +0000 <EvanR> that might explain a lot of confusing expositions I've seen
2026-04-09 19:15:25 +0000 <EvanR> you claim call by value is synonymous with eager evaluation
2026-04-09 19:14:53 +0000 <tomsmeding> call by value is
2026-04-09 19:14:53 +0000 <monochrom> call by value and call by name are.
2026-04-09 19:14:33 +0000 <EvanR> are any of these evaluation strategies other than call by need
2026-04-09 19:13:46 +0000PaulMartensen(15a119e437@2001:bc8:1210:2cd8::3bc) (Remote host closed the connection)
2026-04-09 19:13:42 +0000acarrico(~acarrico@2606:1440:605:2500:48b4:afd0:aa39:9b2f)
2026-04-09 19:13:29 +0000 <tomsmeding> (I also still have to properly read about CBPV)
2026-04-09 19:13:17 +0000 <tomsmeding> isn't CBPV not really an evaluation strategy but more of an IR design
2026-04-09 19:09:00 +0000 <monochrom> Yeah the newest one is push-value. I still have to read about it.
2026-04-09 19:08:24 +0000DetourNetworkUK(~DetourNet@user/DetourNetworkUK) DetourNetworkUK
2026-04-09 19:08:17 +0000 <EvanR> call by value, call by reference, call by name, call by need, call by push-value (??)
2026-04-09 19:07:31 +0000PaulMartensen(15a119e437@2001:bc8:1210:2cd8::3bc)
2026-04-09 19:07:12 +0000DetourNetworkUK(~DetourNet@user/DetourNetworkUK) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2026-04-09 19:06:55 +0000uli-fem(~uli-fem@115.128.112.118) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2026-04-09 19:06:40 +0000Guest62(~Guest62@p200300ca8f313400f8e75d167df70e33.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Client closed)
2026-04-09 19:06:01 +0000target_i(~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) target_i
2026-04-09 19:05:48 +0000 <monochrom> Source: https://youtu.be/SVYBJlCmRxE?si=xnWBiK-4i8tNUkbC (Computerphile channel)
2026-04-09 19:02:29 +0000PaulMartensen(15a119e437@2001:bc8:1210:2cd8::3bc) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2026-04-09 19:02:23 +0000uli-fem(~uli-fem@115.128.112.118)
2026-04-09 18:58:13 +0000PaulMartensen(15a119e437@2001:bc8:1210:2cd8::3bc)
2026-04-09 18:56:28 +0000Typosit(b41a81e702@2001:bc8:1210:2cd8::494) (Remote host closed the connection)
2026-04-09 18:53:53 +0000Typosit(b41a81e702@2001:bc8:1210:2cd8::494)
2026-04-09 18:53:40 +0000wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2026-04-09 18:53:33 +0000uli-fem(~uli-fem@115.128.112.118) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2026-04-09 18:53:30 +0000PaulMartensen(15a119e437@2001:bc8:1210:2cd8::3bc) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2026-04-09 18:52:53 +0000 <tomsmeding> lol