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| 2024-11-05 20:42:56 +0100 | flounders | (~flounders@173.246.200.74) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2024-11-05 20:42:32 +0100 | <monochrom> | "It is safe to copy your data to /dev/null" >:) |
| 2024-11-05 20:42:06 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | and indeed it is funny that they don't say that "copying _from_ unsigned char[n]" is fine |
| 2024-11-05 20:40:41 +0100 | <monochrom> | Programmers probably don't make great lawyers. :) |
| 2024-11-05 20:39:58 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | monochrom: that "e.g." is tantalising |
| 2024-11-05 20:38:26 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | probie: would that mean that memcpy() is the only defined way to look at the bits of a float value? |
| 2024-11-05 20:38:25 +0100 | <monochrom> | Oh! Oops, 6.2.6.1 rule 4. |
| 2024-11-05 20:37:55 +0100 | tomsmeding | is too lazy to actually go search in the standard myself |
| 2024-11-05 20:37:41 +0100 | <probie> | tomsmeding: I'm pretty sure that use of a union is also not kosher. I'm 90% sure that reading u.i after setting u.f is UB |
| 2024-11-05 20:36:39 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-11-05 20:36:31 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | monochrom: same https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n2310.pdf (page 48, pdfpage 35) |
| 2024-11-05 20:35:31 +0100 | <monochrom> | 2018 |
| 2024-11-05 20:35:25 +0100 | <monochrom> | OK OK nitpicking: It only says "copying to unsigned char[n] is OK", they probably forgot to say anything about "from". :) |
| 2024-11-05 20:35:03 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | (of all things) |
| 2024-11-05 20:34:59 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | monochrom: what standard version are you looking at? In my draft copy of C11, 6.2.6.2#4 is about bitwise operators applied to negative zero |
| 2024-11-05 20:33:51 +0100 | Smiles | (uid551636@id-551636.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2024-11-05 20:33:46 +0100 | <monochrom> | By 6.2.6.2 item 4, you get much guarantees by using memcpy(&dst, &src, the_size). |
| 2024-11-05 20:33:25 +0100 | <dolio> | There might be special cases where unions like that are defined to work. But not in general, I think. |
| 2024-11-05 20:33:20 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | I know people are doing this precisely to evade the "pointer casting is not necessarily defined" thing |
| 2024-11-05 20:33:04 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | dolio: oh isn't there? That would be funny |
| 2024-11-05 20:32:53 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | er, *(int32_t*)&x |
| 2024-11-05 20:32:38 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | int32_t float_to_int_wrong(float x) { return *(int*)&x; } |
| 2024-11-05 20:32:26 +0100 | hamster | (~ham@user/ham) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2024-11-05 20:32:25 +0100 | ham2 | (~ham@user/ham) ham |
| 2024-11-05 20:32:21 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | as opposed to what naive C enthousiasts might write: |
| 2024-11-05 20:32:04 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | int32_t float_to_int(float x) { union { int32_t i; float f; } u; u.f = x; return u.i; } |
| 2024-11-05 20:31:39 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | no it's not a general casting trick, it is essentially c++'s reinterpret_cast |
| 2024-11-05 20:31:23 +0100 | <dolio> | Also, I think there's no guarantee that writing to one field of a union and reading from a different field actually works. |
| 2024-11-05 20:31:12 +0100 | target_i | (~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) target_i |
| 2024-11-05 20:31:01 +0100 | <dolio> | What is cast-through-a-union? I'd have to look, but I wouldn't necessarily expect a pointer to a union to be guaranteed to have the same address space as a pointer to either of its components. |
| 2024-11-05 20:27:21 +0100 | zmt01 | (~zmt00@user/zmt00) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2024-11-05 20:25:40 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | hence undefined signed integer overflow |
| 2024-11-05 20:25:29 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | because that, supposedly, _is_ defined (or so I was told) |
| 2024-11-05 20:25:29 +0100 | <dolio> | Or exact representations of all the integer types. |
| 2024-11-05 20:25:14 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | hence the cast-through-a-union dance |
| 2024-11-05 20:25:13 +0100 | emma-underscores | (~underscor@pool-108-54-214-254.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: WeeChat 4.4.3) |
| 2024-11-05 20:24:42 +0100 | <dolio> | Yeah. There's no guarantee that differen't types inhabit the same memory, so things like casting between different pointer types isn't necessarily kosher. |
| 2024-11-05 20:23:27 +0100 | swamp_ | (~zmt00@user/zmt00) zmt00 |
| 2024-11-05 20:23:20 +0100 | JuanDaugherty | (~juan@user/JuanDaugherty) JuanDaugherty |
| 2024-11-05 20:23:04 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | due to wanting to support platforms with very unusual (or historical) pointer representations, etc. |
| 2024-11-05 20:22:19 +0100 | tomsmeding | was told at some point that the C standard actually guarantees very little about implementation details |
| 2024-11-05 20:22:04 +0100 | hgolden_ | (~hgolden@169.150.203.36) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2024-11-05 20:21:35 +0100 | <dolio> | It was some complaint that the Haskell standard doesn't nail down the exact implementation behavior of enough things. But C really doesn't, either, for a lot of things if you actually look. |
| 2024-11-05 20:19:42 +0100 | <monochrom> | Both extremes exists. There are also people who unconditionally claim "UB" and they are sometimes wrong. :) |
| 2024-11-05 20:19:26 +0100 | hgolden__ | (~hgolden@146.70.173.165) hgolden |
| 2024-11-05 20:18:13 +0100 | flounders | (~flounders@173.246.200.74) flounders |
| 2024-11-05 20:17:54 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | perhaps the authors of the 701-page document can feel self-satisfied with their volume of output, and therewith call the thing "glorious" |
| 2024-11-05 20:16:52 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | glorious? |
| 2024-11-05 20:16:46 +0100 | <dolio> | vs. Haskell. |
| 2024-11-05 20:16:30 +0100 | <dolio> | I mainly wanted it to go through and nitpick all the ways in which the supposedly glorious C standard wasn't as well defined as someone here was presenting it as. |