| 2025-11-21 00:02:56 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 00:06:14 +0100 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:8837:488e:4fa1:2e) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 00:07:57 +0100 | williu5 | (~williu5@user/williu5) (Quit: WeeChat 4.7.1) |
| 2025-11-21 00:09:39 +0100 | Pixi` | Pixi |
| 2025-11-21 00:10:19 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:e845:fcad:fefd:4441) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2025-11-21 00:13:32 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 00:17:00 +0100 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect |
| 2025-11-21 00:18:04 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
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| 2025-11-21 00:20:47 +0100 | Googulator2 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-11-21 00:20:47 +0100 | Googulator87 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-11-21 00:24:26 +0100 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/Lycurgus) Lycurgus |
| 2025-11-21 00:28:55 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 00:30:44 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:e845:fcad:fefd:4441) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2025-11-21 00:33:24 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 00:37:39 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) peterbecich |
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| 2025-11-21 00:44:24 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-11-21 00:53:23 +0100 | haltingsolver | (~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) |
| 2025-11-21 00:54:48 +0100 | haskellbridge | (~hackager@96.28.224.214) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 00:55:52 +0100 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 00:57:12 +0100 | haskellbridge | (~hackager@96.28.224.214) hackager |
| 2025-11-21 00:57:12 +0100 | ChanServ | +v haskellbridge |
| 2025-11-21 01:02:40 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 01:03:34 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 01:08:28 +0100 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: alsoknownas.renjuan.org ( juan@acm.org )) |
| 2025-11-21 01:08:29 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 01:12:21 +0100 | <Square2> | hackage package search seems OOS. Cloudflare? |
| 2025-11-21 01:15:54 +0100 | karenw | (~karenw@user/karenw) karenw |
| 2025-11-21 01:17:25 +0100 | karenw | (~karenw@user/karenw) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-11-21 01:17:37 +0100 | karenw | (~karenw@user/karenw) karenw |
| 2025-11-21 01:19:07 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 01:20:42 +0100 | Googulator52 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-11-21 01:20:47 +0100 | Googulator87 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-11-21 01:22:00 +0100 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-152-225-194.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
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| 2025-11-21 02:08:41 +0100 | omidmash6 | omidmash |
| 2025-11-21 02:13:07 +0100 | vetkat | (~vetkat@user/vetkat) (Quit: So long, and thanks for all the fish) |
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| 2025-11-21 02:32:11 +0100 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 02:34:18 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2025-11-21 02:35:21 +0100 | AlexNoo_ | (~AlexNoo@94.233.240.123) |
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| 2025-11-21 02:40:18 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) (Quit: peterbecich) |
| 2025-11-21 02:40:23 +0100 | aditya_an1l | (~aditya_an@user/aditya-an1l:63825) aditya_an1l |
| 2025-11-21 02:41:14 +0100 | xff0x | (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) |
| 2025-11-21 02:41:30 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
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| 2025-11-21 02:43:26 +0100 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) califx |
| 2025-11-21 02:49:14 +0100 | <chromoblob> | [exa]: sorry, what? what's "act"? |
| 2025-11-21 02:52:21 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 02:55:01 +0100 | itaipu | (~itaipu@168.121.97.28) itaipu |
| 2025-11-21 02:56:55 +0100 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@94.233.240.123) |
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| 2025-11-21 03:07:44 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 03:08:25 +0100 | marlino | (~marlino@96-8-193-95.block0.gvtc.com) |
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| 2025-11-21 03:13:19 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-21 03:20:43 +0100 | Googulator87 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-11-21 03:20:51 +0100 | Googulator52 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-11-21 03:23:08 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 03:26:02 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah |
| 2025-11-21 03:27:40 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 03:29:44 +0100 | down200 | (~down200@shell.lug.mtu.edu) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2025-11-21 03:32:11 +0100 | connrs | (~connrs@user/connrs) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-21 03:32:23 +0100 | connrs | (~connrs@user/connrs) connrs |
| 2025-11-21 03:38:31 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 03:39:03 +0100 | <sam113101> | I'm not happy with the performance of haskell |
| 2025-11-21 03:39:37 +0100 | <sam113101> | make code takes 30s to run will it takes 2s in most other languages |
| 2025-11-21 03:40:17 +0100 | <jreicher> | How do you know the language is the problem and not your code? |
| 2025-11-21 03:40:48 +0100 | <monochrom> | I'll just say I never had that problem, so I can't reproduce it. |
| 2025-11-21 03:41:13 +0100 | <monochrom> | If it's 4 seconds vs 2 seconds, I had that usually, sure. Not 30 vs 2. |
| 2025-11-21 03:41:30 +0100 | <sam113101> | I think I reproduced the same algorithm faithfully across the multiple languages |
| 2025-11-21 03:41:40 +0100 | <sam113101> | but it might still be me indeed |
| 2025-11-21 03:41:42 +0100 | <fgarcia> | this is after it has been compiled? :O |
| 2025-11-21 03:42:48 +0100 | <EvanR> | it could very well be the case you translate an imperative algorithm to haskell using some bespoke monad and it slows down |
| 2025-11-21 03:43:08 +0100 | <EvanR> | but if you translated haskell algorithms to C it would also slow down |
| 2025-11-21 03:43:22 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 03:43:37 +0100 | <fgarcia> | and i think for haskell, correctness is the first thing that is implemented. speed is a bit of a bonus. for languages, assembly or C++ would probably be faster as i think they advertise execution speed |
| 2025-11-21 03:43:43 +0100 | <EvanR> | it's programming language relativistic time dilation |
| 2025-11-21 03:44:09 +0100 | <monochrom> | @quote monochrom einstein |
| 2025-11-21 03:44:10 +0100 | <lambdabot> | monochrom says: einstein's theory implies that haskell cannot be faster than c |
| 2025-11-21 03:44:38 +0100 | <jreicher> | sam113101: have you attempted any kind of explicit state change in the code? |
| 2025-11-21 03:45:04 +0100 | <sam113101> | https://paste.centos.org/view/016a1c20 |
| 2025-11-21 03:45:10 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> sam113101: if you post it somewhere, like the discourse, people will show you how to make it fast |
| 2025-11-21 03:45:20 +0100 | <jreicher> | hailstone numbers. :) |
| 2025-11-21 03:47:19 +0100 | <sam113101> | the elixir version: https://paste.centos.org/view/raw/9ea27c56 |
| 2025-11-21 03:47:26 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> aha there it is. Im no expert at this but repeatedly getting the length of lists is wasteful |
| 2025-11-21 03:47:31 +0100 | <monochrom> | Probably this: You think "length xs" takes O(1) time, my students do too. No, it takes Ω(length xs) time. |
| 2025-11-21 03:47:53 +0100 | <monochrom> | Sometimes I even put that on exams. |
| 2025-11-21 03:48:34 +0100 | <monochrom> | And some other times, "a student coded up `isEmpty xs = length xs == 0`, why is it stupid?" |
| 2025-11-21 03:48:44 +0100 | <jreicher> | I think that's more because a list isn't just a list in other languages. |
| 2025-11-21 03:50:02 +0100 | <EvanR> | strlen in C is also not O(1), which no one is surprised by |
| 2025-11-21 03:50:37 +0100 | <jreicher> | That's a nice comparison. it's probably because they know what a string "really" is in C. |
| 2025-11-21 03:50:59 +0100 | <sam113101> | well it's a linked list in haskell right? it's also a linked list in elixir |
| 2025-11-21 03:51:11 +0100 | <monochrom> | And some other other times, I make a question that goes "design a list data structure that caches length, and code up prepend, append, etc." |
| 2025-11-21 03:51:17 +0100 | <jreicher> | With extra book keeping which, if you also did in Haskell, would give you the performance you expect. |
| 2025-11-21 03:52:02 +0100 | <sam113101> | oh really? didn't know about this "book keeping" |
| 2025-11-21 03:52:17 +0100 | <EvanR> | the length of a list in elixir is also not O(1) |
| 2025-11-21 03:52:32 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> why don't we have this magical bookkeeping 🧙♂️ |
| 2025-11-21 03:53:23 +0100 | <EvanR> | if you're comparing the elixir code performance to haskell, then make sure you're compiling with optimizations |
| 2025-11-21 03:53:24 +0100 | <sam113101> | it was from my understanding that you had to walk through the entire list to count it |
| 2025-11-21 03:53:29 +0100 | <monochrom> | Probably 90% of the time if you need O(1)-time length you also need other things such that vector is better for example. |
| 2025-11-21 03:53:55 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 03:54:53 +0100 | <EvanR> | if that doesn't fix it, then start looking for unintended and unhelpful (and unoptimized away) laziness |
| 2025-11-21 03:54:56 +0100 | <monochrom> | I don't think professional Haskellers use [] as a data structure at all. They use it as for loops. Then caching lengths becomes the stupid one. |
| 2025-11-21 03:55:03 +0100 | <EvanR> | since stuff like elixir doesn't have |
| 2025-11-21 03:55:20 +0100 | <EvanR> | that |
| 2025-11-21 03:55:47 +0100 | <jreicher> | Oh you're right. Elixir doesn't do this either. I didn't know. |
| 2025-11-21 03:56:08 +0100 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell |
| 2025-11-21 03:56:11 +0100 | <probie> | You're also calling `collatz` a lot of times; Your `maximumBy` will invoke it twice at each comparison |
| 2025-11-21 03:56:31 +0100 | <monochrom> | or perhaps s/at all/seriously/ . E.g., short lists outside hotspots still happen. |
| 2025-11-21 03:58:36 +0100 | <EvanR> | I'm kind of surprised the elixir code doesn't stack over flow with that kind of eager evaluation and recursion |
| 2025-11-21 03:58:45 +0100 | <jreicher> | sam113101: why are you computing (and keeping) the chain? Why not just do the count as you go? |
| 2025-11-21 03:58:52 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 03:58:54 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> you could add trace logging to both and it might show how much more work the haskell is doing |
| 2025-11-21 03:59:07 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> also you could profile it |
| 2025-11-21 03:59:18 +0100 | <EvanR> | yes there are more efficient ways to do this but the idea was the compare the "same algorithm" (ignoring the difference in evaluation strategy) in the two languages |
| 2025-11-21 03:59:22 +0100 | <EvanR> | which we haven't actually seen yet |
| 2025-11-21 03:59:25 +0100 | <sam113101> | jreicher: that's the way I've done it the first time and now I'm comparing languages/runtimes with the same algorithm |
| 2025-11-21 03:59:33 +0100 | <EvanR> | show the haskell code |
| 2025-11-21 04:00:04 +0100 | <fgarcia> | for the clauses, i wasn't sure what it did at first. you might like 'collatzChain lst@(1:_) = lst' as a pattern match |
| 2025-11-21 04:00:07 +0100 | <monochrom> | I do wish GHC allowed multiple-module files. |
| 2025-11-21 04:00:28 +0100 | <monochrom> | or any Haskell implementation |
| 2025-11-21 04:01:47 +0100 | <EvanR> | on line 10 in the haskell version, you should explicitly evaluate nextCollatz x before prepending it to the list |
| 2025-11-21 04:02:02 +0100 | <EvanR> | otherwise you're tacking on a thunk that will be evaluated later |
| 2025-11-21 04:02:11 +0100 | <EvanR> | which has a cost and is unnecessary |
| 2025-11-21 04:03:10 +0100 | <EvanR> | this would be automatic in elixir |
| 2025-11-21 04:03:10 +0100 | <probie> | monochrom: I think it does, via bkp files (if that hasn't been removed yet) |
| 2025-11-21 04:03:11 +0100 | <fgarcia> | oh that might be something like flip (:) lst $! nextCollatz x |
| 2025-11-21 04:03:42 +0100 | <monochrom> | Probably not. the "x==1" test that happens right away will evaluate it. With -O1, the strictness analyzer will notice that and kill the laziness altogether. We can check this... |
| 2025-11-21 04:03:44 +0100 | <jreicher> | EvanR: how is that automatic in Elixir? |
| 2025-11-21 04:03:55 +0100 | <EvanR> | it's an eager language |
| 2025-11-21 04:04:06 +0100 | <EvanR> | monochrom, oh... |
| 2025-11-21 04:04:06 +0100 | <jreicher> | Oh. :) |
| 2025-11-21 04:04:45 +0100 | <EvanR> | still worth a shot because the field is full of dead attempts to predict what GHC does |
| 2025-11-21 04:05:58 +0100 | <EvanR> | I refuse to say more until I see the properly |
| 2025-11-21 04:06:08 +0100 | <EvanR> | evaluation |
| 2025-11-21 04:06:20 +0100 | <EvanR> | I refuse to say more until I see the two programs properly compared |
| 2025-11-21 04:07:01 +0100 | <jreicher> | I also have no idea how much static analysis either language can do; they might figure out the list is actually discarded. |
| 2025-11-21 04:07:46 +0100 | <jreicher> | And for that reason I really wouldn't code this with a list. |
| 2025-11-21 04:08:29 +0100 | <fgarcia> | i think ghc might be detecting a lot of things. it would warn me about changing 'collatzChain lst@(x:xs)' to 'collatzChain lst@(x:_)' because xs it not used |
| 2025-11-21 04:09:15 +0100 | <c_wraith> | It's worth spending some time learning about things that are easy to detect vs things that are hard to detect. |
| 2025-11-21 04:09:16 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 04:09:30 +0100 | <c_wraith> | It's easy to detect a symbol is bound and not used. |
| 2025-11-21 04:09:59 +0100 | <c_wraith> | It's a lot harder to do flow analysis to determine usage patterns across recursive calls |
| 2025-11-21 04:10:00 +0100 | <monochrom> | Is it just because GHC uses multi-precision integers and Elixir uses 32-bit or 64-bit? |
| 2025-11-21 04:10:30 +0100 | <EvanR> | xs not used, it's not even clear how it could compile that in any other way than "not" |
| 2025-11-21 04:10:59 +0100 | <probie> | monochrom: I know this isn't actually what you want, but https://paste.tomsmeding.com/oqM6JwKf |
| 2025-11-21 04:11:33 +0100 | <fgarcia> | making a collatzChain' with an accumulator might speed things up but i am not sure |
| 2025-11-21 04:11:37 +0100 | <EvanR> | elixir's "int" or whatever it's called is notionally unlimited precision |
| 2025-11-21 04:12:05 +0100 | <EvanR> | and does collatz grow large enough to matter (and leave the small int case of Integer's backend) |
| 2025-11-21 04:12:11 +0100 | <monochrom> | Oh I didn't know that backpack can do that. :) |
| 2025-11-21 04:14:41 +0100 | <monochrom> | Yikes, core says not evaluated until next time it hits the x==1 test. |
| 2025-11-21 04:15:08 +0100 | <EvanR> | it could be worse |
| 2025-11-21 04:15:11 +0100 | <monochrom> | Although, I would bet it only causes 2->4 not 2->30. |
| 2025-11-21 04:15:31 +0100 | <sam113101> | I got it dows to 6s with -O2 |
| 2025-11-21 04:15:45 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 04:16:01 +0100 | <EvanR> | that was my first suggestion! smh |
| 2025-11-21 04:17:02 +0100 | <Leary> | sam113101: Next suggestion: write some type signatures. Believe it or not, they make your code faster. |
| 2025-11-21 04:17:10 +0100 | <monochrom> | What is Enum.count in Elixir? |
| 2025-11-21 04:17:24 +0100 | <EvanR> | for lists it will count the elements |
| 2025-11-21 04:17:32 +0100 | <EvanR> | of a linked list |
| 2025-11-21 04:18:40 +0100 | <Leary> | (the compiler can infer types, but that doesn't mean it can read your mind to infer the type you wanted to use) |
| 2025-11-21 04:19:38 +0100 | fgarcia | hides code without signatures |
| 2025-11-21 04:20:06 +0100 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 04:20:39 +0100 | Googulator87 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-11-21 04:20:44 +0100 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0 |
| 2025-11-21 04:20:44 +0100 | Googulator96 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-11-21 04:20:46 +0100 | <sam113101> | Executed in 1.36 secs |
| 2025-11-21 04:20:50 +0100 | <sam113101> | wow it really did |
| 2025-11-21 04:20:58 +0100 | <EvanR> | I delete all my type signatures, dare the compiler to do what I mean, without even my knowing what I mean |
| 2025-11-21 04:21:41 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 04:22:18 +0100 | <monochrom> | Is that just because you say "Int" not "Integer"? |
| 2025-11-21 04:22:48 +0100 | <sam113101> | I did use Int, not sure if the compiler defaulted to Integer? |
| 2025-11-21 04:23:05 +0100 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal |
| 2025-11-21 04:23:13 +0100 | <monochrom> | Without type signature, everything resolves to Integer. And monomorphized. (I checked the Core code.) |
| 2025-11-21 04:23:23 +0100 | <monochrom> | Yes default Integer. |
| 2025-11-21 04:24:34 +0100 | <fgarcia> | Do as I say. delete cosmic! |
| 2025-11-21 04:25:15 +0100 | <monochrom> | "permission denied" |
| 2025-11-21 04:25:35 +0100 | <monochrom> | You have to say: sudo delete cosmic and make me a sandwich :) |
| 2025-11-21 04:26:06 +0100 | <fgarcia> | gah why is it so hard to install steam |
| 2025-11-21 04:26:39 +0100 | <monochrom> | Fun fact: Curry has Int, it already means multi-precision. There is no bounded integer type in Curry. :) |
| 2025-11-21 04:27:20 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 04:29:10 +0100 | <EvanR> | bounded integer is a contradiction extraordinaire |
| 2025-11-21 04:29:12 +0100 | <monochrom> | Also, Float is already double-precision, it is the only floating point type. |
| 2025-11-21 04:29:21 +0100 | <EvanR> | not to be confused with modular integers |
| 2025-11-21 04:29:35 +0100 | <EvanR> | or Fin n |
| 2025-11-21 04:29:41 +0100 | <EvanR> | *nor |
| 2025-11-21 04:30:14 +0100 | <EvanR> | the certain good applications that exist for single precision are sad |
| 2025-11-21 04:30:21 +0100 | <EvanR> | with curry |
| 2025-11-21 04:30:45 +0100 | <EvanR> | but going from 1/2 number types to any number of number types is definitely a jump |
| 2025-11-21 04:31:01 +0100 | <fgarcia> | does Fractional work? i think it has Float and Double |
| 2025-11-21 04:32:06 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 04:32:44 +0100 | annamalai | (~annamalai@2409:4042:4e39:7842::9e0a:bf0a) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-21 04:32:58 +0100 | annamalai | (~annamalai@2409:4042:4e39:7842::9e0a:bf0a) annamalai |
| 2025-11-21 04:35:41 +0100 | <monochrom> | Fractional works but there is only one instance. |
| 2025-11-21 04:36:33 +0100 | <EvanR> | > 100 / 3 :: Centi |
| 2025-11-21 04:36:35 +0100 | <lambdabot> | 33.33 |
| 2025-11-21 04:36:45 +0100 | <EvanR> | we have more instances |
| 2025-11-21 04:37:07 +0100 | trickard_ | trickard |
| 2025-11-21 04:37:17 +0100 | qqe | (~qqq@185.54.21.140) |
| 2025-11-21 04:39:10 +0100 | <monochrom> | Yeah Haskell has more adoption and more contributors :) |
| 2025-11-21 04:41:12 +0100 | <EvanR> | oh, curry has few instances just because lack of effort, and not to simplify things? |
| 2025-11-21 04:42:04 +0100 | aditya_an1l | (~aditya_an@user/aditya-an1l:63825) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 04:42:21 +0100 | <monochrom> | I'm over-philosophizing and over-economicsizing it, but scarce resource and simplifying things are highly correlated! :) |
| 2025-11-21 04:42:42 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 04:43:39 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) peterbecich |
| 2025-11-21 04:43:54 +0100 | <monochrom> | But, say, very fantasizingly, if one day some big shot started using Curry for GPUs, I'm sure single-precision float would be added right away. :) |
| 2025-11-21 04:44:21 +0100 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-90-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-21 04:44:25 +0100 | <monochrom> | So it's like "no one needs anything else, let's chill". |
| 2025-11-21 04:45:42 +0100 | <EvanR> | maybe a compiler flag which changes the backend from double to float |
| 2025-11-21 04:46:01 +0100 | <EvanR> | choose your own semantics |
| 2025-11-21 04:46:28 +0100 | <monochrom> | heh |
| 2025-11-21 04:46:52 +0100 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-90-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2025-11-21 04:47:28 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 04:47:28 +0100 | <monochrom> | You are evil. The last thing we need is an ecosystem that fulfills the prophecy "floating point semantics is unpredictable". |
| 2025-11-21 04:48:57 +0100 | marlino | (~marlino@96-8-193-95.block0.gvtc.com) (Quit: WeeChat 4.7.1) |
| 2025-11-21 04:49:59 +0100 | marlino | (~marlino@96-8-193-95.block0.gvtc.com) |
| 2025-11-21 04:52:17 +0100 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-90-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-21 04:55:26 +0100 | <EvanR> | we don't need to limit our evil choices to floating point |
| 2025-11-21 04:55:52 +0100 | <EvanR> | select what integers mean, select what function application means, select what defining equations means |
| 2025-11-21 04:57:42 +0100 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-90-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2025-11-21 04:58:15 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 05:03:04 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 05:05:43 +0100 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 05:06:49 +0100 | <davean> | EvanR: we do select what integer means every time we compile Haskell. |
| 2025-11-21 05:08:19 +0100 | <EvanR> | ummmmmmmmmmm |
| 2025-11-21 05:08:39 +0100 | <EvanR> | GMP and the other implementation of Integer ought to morally result in the same semantics? |
| 2025-11-21 05:09:02 +0100 | <EvanR> | for all practical purposes a platonic ideal |
| 2025-11-21 05:09:49 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> We need a non-GMP Integer implementation that uses ByteArrays like GMP. |
| 2025-11-21 05:13:03 +0100 | <davean> | EvanR: morally, sure |
| 2025-11-21 05:13:27 +0100 | <davean> | IIRC they had some variation on how they errored with improper operations |
| 2025-11-21 05:13:40 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 05:15:20 +0100 | <EvanR> | that's the incentive to wrote error free code |
| 2025-11-21 05:15:56 +0100 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-21 05:16:27 +0100 | <davean> | Tell that to Vincent |
| 2025-11-21 05:17:08 +0100 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0 |
| 2025-11-21 05:18:10 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 05:20:12 +0100 | werneta | (~werneta@71.83.160.242) werneta |
| 2025-11-21 05:20:44 +0100 | Googulator46 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-11-21 05:20:45 +0100 | Googulator96 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-11-21 05:22:39 +0100 | <EvanR> | Divide by zero -- You can't divide by zero on a computer. Some kind of math thing. Don't worry too much about understanding why. Just don't do it. (EXAPUNKS zine 1 page 12) |
| 2025-11-21 05:24:01 +0100 | <fgarcia> | :D |
| 2025-11-21 05:27:29 +0100 | <chromoblob> | AArch64 gives you 0 as result of division by zero. i also wanted to make it like this in my language (because dividing 0 by anything gives 0, so 0 / 0 should be 0 too, and since x / 0 for x ≠ 0 is undefined, might as well just check for dividend = 0, regarding other cases as UB) |
| 2025-11-21 05:27:47 +0100 | <chromoblob> | i mean, in integer division |
| 2025-11-21 05:28:52 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> x / 0 should be 0 if division is total, because 0 is the pseudoinverse of zero. The pseudoinverse of x is y such that xyx = x and yxy = y. |
| 2025-11-21 05:28:59 +0100 | <EvanR> | it is "interesting" that you would mix a nonsense result on one hand with undefined behavior on the other |
| 2025-11-21 05:29:01 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 05:29:14 +0100 | Dhark8 | (~Shark8@c-174-56-102-109.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 2025-11-21 05:29:25 +0100 | <EvanR> | if you are going to make it total make it total really and define all behavior |
| 2025-11-21 05:29:28 +0100 | <jreicher> | EvanR what's the nonsense result? |
| 2025-11-21 05:29:33 +0100 | <EvanR> | 0 / 0 = 0 |
| 2025-11-21 05:29:39 +0100 | <geekosaur> | Zemyla, I actually started work on that (adding bsdmp as a backend), but decided it would be easier to port its multiplication optimizations than to work around its violation of ghc bignum invariants |
| 2025-11-21 05:29:57 +0100 | <jreicher> | EvanR what should it be? (I'm not saying it should be 0; I'm just curious what you think) |
| 2025-11-21 05:30:06 +0100 | <geekosaur> | haven't really had time to work on it though |
| 2025-11-21 05:30:17 +0100 | <EvanR> | it should clearly be 7 because this one time that would make sense |
| 2025-11-21 05:30:22 +0100 | <chromoblob> | <s>0.5</s> |
| 2025-11-21 05:30:27 +0100 | <EvanR> | lol |
| 2025-11-21 05:30:51 +0100 | <fgarcia> | oh, somewhere i have written 0.0 / 0.0 because i wanted Not a Number as a result |
| 2025-11-21 05:31:04 +0100 | <jreicher> | But it is a number. You just don't know which one. :p |
| 2025-11-21 05:31:18 +0100 | <EvanR> | that be the realm of float "logic" |
| 2025-11-21 05:31:50 +0100 | <EvanR> | they should have made a signed NaN in case you divide negative zero by zero |
| 2025-11-21 05:31:57 +0100 | marlino | (~marlino@96-8-193-95.block0.gvtc.com) (Quit: WeeChat 4.7.1) |
| 2025-11-21 05:32:09 +0100 | Shark8 | (~Shark8@c-174-56-102-109.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 05:32:40 +0100 | <jreicher> | Signed zero in the first place should not be a thing. :( |
| 2025-11-21 05:32:45 +0100 | <EvanR> | lol |
| 2025-11-21 05:33:40 +0100 | <EvanR> | for numbers of the form mantissa times 2^e signed zero isn't a thing xD |
| 2025-11-21 05:33:47 +0100 | <EvanR> | or any kind of zero for that matter |
| 2025-11-21 05:33:52 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 05:34:50 +0100 | <EvanR> | whatever you need to do do it in the range 1 <= x < 2 |
| 2025-11-21 05:34:59 +0100 | <fgarcia> | i am not smart. would they have thought it would be somehow useful for limits approaching from >0 and <0 ? |
| 2025-11-21 05:36:40 +0100 | <geekosaur> | actually it was bsdnt, which seems to have disappeared |
| 2025-11-21 05:36:42 +0100 | <EvanR> | a negative zero happens when a computation would be negative but too small to represent |
| 2025-11-21 05:37:05 +0100 | werneta | (~werneta@71.83.160.242) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 2025-11-21 05:37:11 +0100 | <geekosaur> | as apparently has libtommath which was my first idea (then found something pointing to bsdnt instead) |
| 2025-11-21 05:37:11 +0100 | <EvanR> | so you end up with partial information |
| 2025-11-21 05:37:54 +0100 | <geekosaur> | fgarcia, yes, and it happens when you're working with trig functions in a plane |
| 2025-11-21 05:37:55 +0100 | <EvanR> | by the same logic negative NaN accomplishes the same thing |
| 2025-11-21 05:38:05 +0100 | Pseudonym | (~Pseudonym@194-223-46-47.tpgi.com.au) Pseudonym |
| 2025-11-21 05:38:09 +0100 | <geekosaur> | losing the "negative" switches which quadrant you're in |
| 2025-11-21 05:38:26 +0100 | <fgarcia> | i think wikipedia has some writing about this |
| 2025-11-21 05:38:51 +0100 | <fgarcia> | "It is claimed that the inclusion of signed zero in IEEE 754 makes it much easier to achieve numerical accuracy in some critical problems, in particular when computing with complex elementary functions. On the other hand, the concept of signed zero runs contrary to the usual assumption made in mathematics that negative zero is the same value as zero. Representations that allow negative zero can be |
| 2025-11-21 05:38:53 +0100 | <fgarcia> | a source of errors in programs, if software developers do not take into account that while the two zero representations behave as equal under numeric comparisons, they yield different results in some operations." |
| 2025-11-21 05:40:02 +0100 | <jreicher> | That's really interesting. I object to it on mathematically purist grounds, which I'm only half-serious about, but that actually looks like it matters. |
| 2025-11-21 05:40:04 +0100 | <chromoblob> | you should never test "real" numbers for equality, it's not meaningful in computers |
| 2025-11-21 05:40:13 +0100 | <EvanR> | attempting to use math on a computer is a source of errors in programs. avoidance recommended |
| 2025-11-21 05:40:33 +0100 | <EvanR> | chromoblob, this is false for floats, and is the correct thing to do in some cases |
| 2025-11-21 05:40:47 +0100 | <EvanR> | exact real numbers, yes |
| 2025-11-21 05:44:30 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 05:48:39 +0100 | Pseudonym | (~Pseudonym@194-223-46-47.tpgi.com.au) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2025-11-21 05:49:06 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 05:50:36 +0100 | democritus | (~democritu@2600:1700:ba69:10:ad1b:59dc:c894:12ec) |
| 2025-11-21 05:53:31 +0100 | vardhan | (~vardhan@122.172.85.147) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 05:55:06 +0100 | trickard_ | trickard |
| 2025-11-21 06:00:03 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 06:04:32 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 06:07:03 +0100 | vardhan | (~vardhan@122.172.85.147) |
| 2025-11-21 06:15:43 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 06:20:19 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 06:22:09 +0100 | <monochrom> | EvanR: Haha define what function application means. I like that. I propose 5 choices: call by value left-to-right, call by value right-to-left, call by need (lazy), call by name, TeX-like macro |
| 2025-11-21 06:23:19 +0100 | <monochrom> | (Difference between lazy and by name: lazy memoizes, by-name doesn't.) |
| 2025-11-21 06:24:18 +0100 | <monochrom> | (Difference between by-name and macro expansion: The latter suffers variable capture issues!) |
| 2025-11-21 06:31:06 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 06:31:15 +0100 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) user363627 |
| 2025-11-21 06:34:40 +0100 | Square3 | (~Square@user/square) Square |
| 2025-11-21 06:35:43 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 06:37:52 +0100 | Square2 | (~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 06:39:40 +0100 | haltingsolver | (~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 06:45:54 +0100 | haritz | (~hrtz@user/haritz) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in) |
| 2025-11-21 06:46:21 +0100 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect |
| 2025-11-21 06:46:28 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 06:53:22 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 06:55:24 +0100 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Quit: Leaving...) |
| 2025-11-21 06:55:30 +0100 | takuan | (~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be) |
| 2025-11-21 07:04:32 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 07:08:49 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 07:12:13 +0100 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.203) |
| 2025-11-21 07:14:32 +0100 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-90-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-21 07:14:46 +0100 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-90-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2025-11-21 07:19:54 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 07:20:25 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-21 07:20:43 +0100 | Googulator12 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-11-21 07:20:45 +0100 | Googulator46 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-11-21 07:22:37 +0100 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/Lycurgus) Lycurgus |
| 2025-11-21 07:24:15 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 07:25:47 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 07:30:18 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 07:30:37 +0100 | Guest9999 | (~democritu@2600:1700:ba69:10:1d61:8aca:ac7c:ea23) |
| 2025-11-21 07:33:34 +0100 | djspacewhale | (~djspacewh@user/djspacewhale) djspacewhale |
| 2025-11-21 07:34:53 +0100 | democritus | (~democritu@2600:1700:ba69:10:ad1b:59dc:c894:12ec) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 07:35:00 +0100 | Guest9999 | democritus |
| 2025-11-21 07:41:14 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 07:45:55 +0100 | Square3 | (~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 07:46:16 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 07:51:09 +0100 | Googulator12 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-11-21 07:51:10 +0100 | Googulator72 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-11-21 07:55:36 +0100 | djspacewhale | (~djspacewh@user/djspacewhale) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 07:56:37 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 07:56:43 +0100 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937 |
| 2025-11-21 07:57:54 +0100 | bggd | (~bgg@2a01:e0a:819:1510:3835:521f:ca74:58be) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 08:00:45 +0100 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 08:01:03 +0100 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0 |
| 2025-11-21 08:01:10 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 08:01:31 +0100 | karenw | (~karenw@user/karenw) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 08:03:32 +0100 | democritus | (~democritu@2600:1700:ba69:10:1d61:8aca:ac7c:ea23) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2025-11-21 08:09:04 +0100 | ft | (~ft@p4fc2aaeb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2025-11-21 08:12:07 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 08:12:40 +0100 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 08:12:55 +0100 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0 |
| 2025-11-21 08:16:33 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 08:27:37 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 08:32:27 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 08:34:52 +0100 | annamalai | (~annamalai@2409:4042:4e39:7842::9e0a:bf0a) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 08:40:50 +0100 | Googulator83 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-11-21 08:41:10 +0100 | Googulator72 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-11-21 08:43:10 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 08:45:01 +0100 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect |
| 2025-11-21 08:48:04 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 08:55:08 +0100 | annamalai | (~annamalai@157.32.221.227) annamalai |
| 2025-11-21 08:55:32 +0100 | elbartol | (~user@user/elbartol) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 08:58:01 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 08:58:32 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 08:58:40 +0100 | <[exa]> | chromoblob: it looked like they don't want the patch so I wanted to have more folks coming in there :D |
| 2025-11-21 08:59:58 +0100 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: alsoknownas.renjuan.org ( juan@acm.org )) |
| 2025-11-21 09:03:13 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 09:05:03 +0100 | <jreicher> | sam113101: this is the kind of thing I had in mind before |
| 2025-11-21 09:05:05 +0100 | <jreicher> | https://paste.centos.org/view/783848f1 |
| 2025-11-21 09:10:31 +0100 | annamalai | (~annamalai@157.32.221.227) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 09:10:45 +0100 | Googulator83 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-11-21 09:10:47 +0100 | Googulator66 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-11-21 09:10:50 +0100 | annamalai | (~annamalai@157.32.221.227) annamalai |
| 2025-11-21 09:12:05 +0100 | xff0x | (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 09:12:49 +0100 | <fgarcia> | looks like it could be fast :O |
| 2025-11-21 09:13:27 +0100 | xff0x | (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) |
| 2025-11-21 09:13:54 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 09:15:29 +0100 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) CiaoSen |
| 2025-11-21 09:18:15 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 09:21:31 +0100 | lucabtz | (~lucabtz@user/lucabtz) lucabtz |
| 2025-11-21 09:26:43 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 09:33:42 +0100 | trickard_ | trickard |
| 2025-11-21 09:34:21 +0100 | tzh | (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2025-11-21 09:34:36 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 09:41:51 +0100 | Googulator66 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 09:44:21 +0100 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-21 09:44:40 +0100 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0 |
| 2025-11-21 09:45:19 +0100 | emmanuelux | (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 09:45:27 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 09:45:58 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) |
| 2025-11-21 09:48:52 +0100 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-21 09:49:07 +0100 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 09:52:13 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 09:54:37 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::10c5) fp |
| 2025-11-21 09:57:39 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 10:13:10 +0100 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e717197425fbe5e3285ef130.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk |
| 2025-11-21 10:15:07 +0100 | mesaoptimizer | (~mesa@user/PapuaHardyNet) (Quit: WeeChat 4.0.4) |
| 2025-11-21 10:16:08 +0100 | chromoblob | (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) chromoblob\0 |
| 2025-11-21 10:21:21 +0100 | jreicher | (~user@user/jreicher) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 10:22:43 +0100 | jreicher | (~user@user/jreicher) jreicher |
| 2025-11-21 10:34:16 +0100 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 10:40:01 +0100 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) toonn |
| 2025-11-21 10:44:51 +0100 | synchromesh | (~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:58f6:2167:890b:2ed2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-21 10:46:18 +0100 | synchromesh | (~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:58f6:2167:890b:2ed2) synchromesh |
| 2025-11-21 10:50:38 +0100 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 10:53:15 +0100 | xff0x | (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 10:56:00 +0100 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 10:56:45 +0100 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) user363627 |
| 2025-11-21 10:58:16 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::10c5) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 11:00:36 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@130.233.70.141) fp |
| 2025-11-21 11:01:04 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@130.233.70.141) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-11-21 11:01:17 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@130.233.70.141) fp |
| 2025-11-21 11:01:31 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@130.233.70.141) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-11-21 11:01:47 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@130.233.70.141) fp |
| 2025-11-21 11:10:00 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I have an intrusive thought to build servant combinators to support gemini protocol |
| 2025-11-21 11:10:22 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I see the gemini space is not really explored on hackage |
| 2025-11-21 11:17:10 +0100 | <[exa]> | gemini is the new gopher? |
| 2025-11-21 11:17:23 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 11:18:47 +0100 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) chele |
| 2025-11-21 11:21:44 +0100 | <[exa]> | anyway is there a lowlevel server for that (like warp)? would be great |
| 2025-11-21 11:22:42 +0100 | p3n_ | (~p3n@2a00:19a0:3:7c:0:d9c6:7cf6:1) (Quit: ZNC 1.10.1 - https://znc.in) |
| 2025-11-21 11:24:05 +0100 | <[exa]> | ah ok there's gemini-router which looks pretty much like we can do scotty stuff on that |
| 2025-11-21 11:24:13 +0100 | <[exa]> | coool. |
| 2025-11-21 11:25:42 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@130.233.70.141) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 11:28:16 +0100 | <[exa]> | I love the client certificate proliferation there, that's very nice. |
| 2025-11-21 11:29:15 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 11:29:39 +0100 | trickard___ | (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2025-11-21 11:31:17 +0100 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-90-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 11:31:21 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Yeah, gemini and gopher share some lineage and proponents. I'm too zoomer to know more |
| 2025-11-21 11:31:51 +0100 | p3n | (~p3n@2a00:19a0:3:7c:0:d9c6:7cf6:1) p3n |
| 2025-11-21 11:32:24 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Wait, I didn't know gemini appeared in 2019 |
| 2025-11-21 11:34:57 +0100 | haritz | (~hrtz@2a01:4b00:bc2e:7000:d5af:a266:ca31:5ef8) |
| 2025-11-21 11:34:58 +0100 | haritz | (~hrtz@2a01:4b00:bc2e:7000:d5af:a266:ca31:5ef8) (Changing host) |
| 2025-11-21 11:34:58 +0100 | haritz | (~hrtz@user/haritz) haritz |
| 2025-11-21 11:36:18 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 11:37:58 +0100 | <[exa]> | yeah it's super new |
| 2025-11-21 11:38:48 +0100 | Googulator66 | (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) |
| 2025-11-21 11:40:48 +0100 | <probie> | I like Gemini in theory, but the things I'd like to see use it never will |
| 2025-11-21 11:42:26 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Some blogs I follow have a gemini mirror. Which I never open |
| 2025-11-21 11:43:21 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Gemini looks like a good transport for rss/atom, except a lot of rss readers rely on http response headers to know when to hit again, and gemini doesn't have headers |
| 2025-11-21 11:44:31 +0100 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2025-11-21 11:47:51 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 11:47:54 +0100 | <[exa]> | like, ideally the rss/atom protocol would be itself aware of the fact that the rss has to be refreshed |
| 2025-11-21 11:50:07 +0100 | wootehfoot | (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) wootehfoot |
| 2025-11-21 11:50:52 +0100 | trickard___ | (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-21 11:51:05 +0100 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2025-11-21 11:51:14 +0100 | <yin> | chromoblob: what's your view on 0^0 ? |
| 2025-11-21 11:51:25 +0100 | <chromoblob> | yin: 1 |
| 2025-11-21 11:52:34 +0100 | <jreicher> | lim x->0 0^x |
| 2025-11-21 11:53:04 +0100 | <jreicher> | (counterexample, not a definition) |
| 2025-11-21 11:53:34 +0100 | <[exa]> | jreicher: counter-countered by `lim x->0 x^x` and `lim x->0 x^0` |
| 2025-11-21 11:54:16 +0100 | <jreicher> | I didn't say 1 wasn't the limit in some situations. I'm just saying it's not the limit in all, so it can't be the definition. |
| 2025-11-21 11:54:40 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 11:55:17 +0100 | <chromoblob> | 0^0 for me is simply the number of functions from bottom to bottom :) |
| 2025-11-21 11:55:40 +0100 | <[exa]> | <3 |
| 2025-11-21 11:56:10 +0100 | <lucabtz> | chromoblob shouldnt it be the number of function from an empty set to an empty set? |
| 2025-11-21 11:56:18 +0100 | <lucabtz> | but by that definition it would be 0 |
| 2025-11-21 11:56:40 +0100 | <chromoblob> | why zero? id is a correct example |
| 2025-11-21 11:57:11 +0100 | <lucabtz> | a function from a set A to B is a subset of A x B with some properties |
| 2025-11-21 11:57:19 +0100 | <lucabtz> | but {} x {} = {} |
| 2025-11-21 11:57:25 +0100 | <chromoblob> | hmmmm |
| 2025-11-21 11:57:33 +0100 | kritzefitz | (~kritzefit@debian/kritzefitz) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 11:57:49 +0100 | <lucabtz> | well i suppose {} is a subset of {} x {} |
| 2025-11-21 11:57:53 +0100 | <lucabtz> | so maybe 1 |
| 2025-11-21 11:57:56 +0100 | <chromoblob> | well, there you have it, {} is the function |
| 2025-11-21 11:57:59 +0100 | <lucabtz> | is correct |
| 2025-11-21 11:58:04 +0100 | <lucabtz> | yep |
| 2025-11-21 11:58:16 +0100 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 11:59:01 +0100 | kritzefitz | (~kritzefit@debian/kritzefitz) kritzefitz |
| 2025-11-21 11:59:07 +0100 | <lucabtz> | though i think it should be a non-epty subset |
| 2025-11-21 11:59:49 +0100 | <lucabtz> | because if you take f:A -> B and A = B = {1}, the set of functions from A->B has has cardinality 1 |
| 2025-11-21 12:00:04 +0100 | <lucabtz> | but if {} is a function the you have two functions from A->B |
| 2025-11-21 12:00:15 +0100 | <yin> | 0^0 would be Void -> Void and not () -> () right? |
| 2025-11-21 12:00:25 +0100 | <lucabtz> | since A x B = {(1, 1)} you have both {} and {(1, 1)} |
| 2025-11-21 12:00:27 +0100 | <c_wraith> | yes |
| 2025-11-21 12:00:32 +0100 | <chromoblob> | yin: yes, () would correspond to 1 |
| 2025-11-21 12:01:01 +0100 | <yin> | and how many functions are there of the type Void -> Void? |
| 2025-11-21 12:01:12 +0100 | EvanR_ | (~EvanR@user/evanr) EvanR |
| 2025-11-21 12:01:25 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> But how many functions are there from bottom to bottom? One or infinitely many? |
| 2025-11-21 12:01:26 +0100 | <chromoblob> | lucabtz: which restrictions are there on the subset? |
| 2025-11-21 12:01:32 +0100 | <c_wraith> | here's where things get annoying: you need to be more precise than "function" |
| 2025-11-21 12:01:54 +0100 | <chromoblob> | Morj: one, because any two are indistinguishable |
| 2025-11-21 12:02:01 +0100 | <c_wraith> | because there are multiple concepts of function, and a lot of the disagreement is coming from set theory vs domain theory |
| 2025-11-21 12:02:36 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> chromoblob: How extentional of you |
| 2025-11-21 12:02:44 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::1370) fp |
| 2025-11-21 12:02:48 +0100 | <lucabtz> | chromoblob i think in general a subset of A x B is called a relation between A and B. for a function the relation has to assign a single element of B to each and every element of A |
| 2025-11-21 12:02:51 +0100 | <[exa]> | :t id :: Void -> Void |
| 2025-11-21 12:02:52 +0100 | <lambdabot> | Void -> Void |
| 2025-11-21 12:03:02 +0100 | <c_wraith> | lucabtz: in set theory, yes. In domain theory? |
| 2025-11-21 12:03:03 +0100 | mesaoptimizer | (~user@user/PapuaHardyNet) PapuaHardyNet |
| 2025-11-21 12:03:14 +0100 | <lucabtz> | which does exclude {} from the example of A = B = {1} |
| 2025-11-21 12:03:28 +0100 | <chromoblob> | yeah, i wanted to lead to this |
| 2025-11-21 12:03:30 +0100 | <lucabtz> | but does not exclude {} in the example A = B = {} |
| 2025-11-21 12:03:34 +0100 | <yin> | does the Yoneda Lemma apply? |
| 2025-11-21 12:03:41 +0100 | EvanR | (~EvanR@user/evanr) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 12:04:04 +0100 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 12:04:10 +0100 | <lucabtz> | chromoblob yep |
| 2025-11-21 12:04:53 +0100 | <c_wraith> | Haskell is better modeled by domain theory than set theory, as it has explicit bottom values |
| 2025-11-21 12:05:10 +0100 | <yin> | which is a mistake |
| 2025-11-21 12:05:17 +0100 | <yin> | imo |
| 2025-11-21 12:05:25 +0100 | <lucabtz> | c_wraith i see, i know nothing about domain theory though |
| 2025-11-21 12:05:37 +0100 | <probie> | If you don't have an "at least as defined as" operator, are you really living? |
| 2025-11-21 12:07:30 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 12:07:58 +0100 | <c_wraith> | So you get fun things like newtype Hyper a b = H { runH :: Hyper b a -> b } |
| 2025-11-21 12:08:11 +0100 | <c_wraith> | which would be nonsensical in type theory |
| 2025-11-21 12:08:14 +0100 | <c_wraith> | err, set theory |
| 2025-11-21 12:08:24 +0100 | <c_wraith> | but it turns out to actually work in Haskell |
| 2025-11-21 12:09:19 +0100 | Vajb | (~Vajb@n6jd7kwb4e2quheg6tf-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 12:09:32 +0100 | <c_wraith> | (you can use hyperfunctions to implement deforestation for zip, for instance) |
| 2025-11-21 12:09:59 +0100 | Vajb | (~Vajb@n4bl3ovzcj023yptes7-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 2025-11-21 12:10:27 +0100 | <lucabtz> | you lost me |
| 2025-11-21 12:11:57 +0100 | <c_wraith> | If you strip out the newtype wrappers, that type is like (((... -> b) -> a) -> b), with infinite recursion on right sides of the arrows. |
| 2025-11-21 12:11:58 +0100 | <__monty__> | Is Void -> Void a problem for set theory? I can see how a "function" from a non-empty set to Void might be problematic. OTOH can't you say empty sets are not a thing because they're all inhabited by bottom? |
| 2025-11-21 12:12:17 +0100 | trickard_ | trickard |
| 2025-11-21 12:12:26 +0100 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) califx |
| 2025-11-21 12:12:44 +0100 | <lucabtz> | c_wraith right |
| 2025-11-21 12:12:55 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 12:13:50 +0100 | <lucabtz> | but you stil lost me with domain theory because i have no idea what it is |
| 2025-11-21 12:14:25 +0100 | <lucabtz> | but thx for the insights, very interesting |
| 2025-11-21 12:15:24 +0100 | <c_wraith> | domain theory is... sort of adding infinite loops to functions, by introducing a bottom value to represent "this never completes" |
| 2025-11-21 12:15:32 +0100 | <c_wraith> | It's much more precise than that. |
| 2025-11-21 12:15:50 +0100 | <c_wraith> | But that's what it's going for. |
| 2025-11-21 12:25:08 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 12:36:22 +0100 | jle` | (~jle`@2603:8001:3b00:11:658b:1126:1485:2a54) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 12:37:57 +0100 | jle` | (~jle`@2603:8001:3b00:11:2f12:c034:12fc:8093) jle` |
| 2025-11-21 12:43:48 +0100 | biberu | (~biberu@user/biberu) biberu |
| 2025-11-21 12:47:23 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2025-11-21 12:49:38 +0100 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 12:49:41 +0100 | bwe | (~bwe@2a01:4f8:1c1c:4878::2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-21 12:49:52 +0100 | bwe70296 | (~bwe@2a01:4f8:1c1c:4878::2) bwe |
| 2025-11-21 12:50:02 +0100 | califax | (~califax@user/califx) califx |
| 2025-11-21 12:54:41 +0100 | down200 | (~down200@shell.lug.mtu.edu) down200 |
| 2025-11-21 13:00:58 +0100 | wootehfoot | (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 13:08:39 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I have a promo code for a month of discord nitro: HPN5-7QGj-yp58-xZPT-Eu5R-W2ke - for anyone who's fast and wants |
| 2025-11-21 13:10:16 +0100 | aditya_an1l | (~aditya_an@user/aditya-an1l:63825) aditya_an1l |
| 2025-11-21 13:17:13 +0100 | srazkvt | (~sarah@user/srazkvt) srazkvt |
| 2025-11-21 13:18:11 +0100 | <chromoblob> | that "Hyper" type looks like it could be used for games (in math sense) |
| 2025-11-21 13:23:21 +0100 | xff0x | (~xff0x@ai083123.d.east.v6connect.net) |
| 2025-11-21 13:28:54 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::1370) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 13:36:06 +0100 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-21 13:36:18 +0100 | <[exa]> | any users of `pipes` here? Is the performance OK-ish if I have gazillions of very little pipe-ish operations glued together? |
| 2025-11-21 13:36:19 +0100 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2025-11-21 13:38:22 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@dhcp-86-136.eduroam.aalto.fi) fp |
| 2025-11-21 13:39:44 +0100 | bwe70296 | (~bwe@2a01:4f8:1c1c:4878::2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-21 13:41:57 +0100 | <dminuoso> | [exa]: "OK-ish" and "bazillion" are very subjective terms. |
| 2025-11-21 13:42:03 +0100 | <dminuoso> | The answer is clearly "Yes, no, maybe" |
| 2025-11-21 13:42:56 +0100 | <dminuoso> | From what I read, pipes is on the faster side of things, but conduit/streaming generally are much faster. |
| 2025-11-21 13:43:17 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2025-11-21 13:44:25 +0100 | <[exa]> | like, main question probably is that if some kind of fusion works in there, like with Text |
| 2025-11-21 13:44:29 +0100 | bwe | (~bwe@2a01:4f8:1c1c:4878::2) bwe |
| 2025-11-21 13:45:58 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Text fusion is so adhoc.. heh |
| 2025-11-21 13:46:06 +0100 | Googulator7 | (~Googulato@81.183.235.203) |
| 2025-11-21 13:46:27 +0100 | <dminuoso> | But should be easy to check: Just look for how many rewrite rules are in pipes. |
| 2025-11-21 13:47:12 +0100 | <[exa]> | hm yeah good point |
| 2025-11-21 13:48:06 +0100 | <dminuoso> | Ultimately its tough to make predictions about when fusion occurs externally, even in case of text. |
| 2025-11-21 13:48:24 +0100 | <dminuoso> | It's best to just take your hot path and stare at the generated Core for way too much of your time. |
| 2025-11-21 13:49:43 +0100 | Googulator66 | (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 13:49:44 +0100 | <[exa]> | turns out `streaming` kinda measured that for me, see below in the readme https://github.com/haskell-streaming/streaming |
| 2025-11-21 13:50:31 +0100 | <dminuoso> | [exa]: There seem to be quite a bunch of RULES that could facilitate shortcut fusion. |
| 2025-11-21 13:50:37 +0100 | <[exa]> | yeah |
| 2025-11-21 13:50:50 +0100 | <dminuoso> | But its really hard to predicte whether that actually ends up triggering. |
| 2025-11-21 13:51:02 +0100 | <dminuoso> | And it may easily differ between GHC versions or other GHC flags. |
| 2025-11-21 13:51:23 +0100 | qqe | (~qqq@185.54.21.140) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 2025-11-21 13:53:59 +0100 | bwe | (~bwe@2a01:4f8:1c1c:4878::2) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 13:54:23 +0100 | bwe | (~bwe@2a01:4f8:1c1c:4878::2) bwe |
| 2025-11-21 13:55:31 +0100 | wootehfoot | (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) wootehfoot |
| 2025-11-21 13:58:43 +0100 | aditya_an1l | (~aditya_an@user/aditya-an1l:63825) (Quit: WeeChat 4.7.1) |
| 2025-11-21 13:58:57 +0100 | <lucabtz> | c_wraith any resource with precise definitions for domain theory? |
| 2025-11-21 13:59:05 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@dhcp-86-136.eduroam.aalto.fi) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 13:59:07 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) |
| 2025-11-21 14:02:03 +0100 | <lucabtz> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_theory this page doesnt make much of a connection to haskell and im not even sure it is the same thing you mean because it is still speaking about sets in the end |
| 2025-11-21 14:03:14 +0100 | trickard_ | trickard |
| 2025-11-21 14:04:49 +0100 | ringo_ | (~ringo@157.230.117.128) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 14:13:23 +0100 | Nachtgespenst | (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2025-11-21 14:18:15 +0100 | ringo_ | (~ringo@157.230.117.128) ringo_ |
| 2025-11-21 14:20:57 +0100 | kuribas | (~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) kuribas |
| 2025-11-21 14:23:51 +0100 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2025-11-21 14:25:08 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@130.233.70.141) fp |
| 2025-11-21 14:26:37 +0100 | ft | (~ft@p4fc2aaeb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) ft |
| 2025-11-21 14:33:18 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@130.233.70.141) (Quit: fp) |
| 2025-11-21 14:33:39 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::1370) fp |
| 2025-11-21 14:50:49 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Quit: ljdarj) |
| 2025-11-21 14:51:09 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2025-11-21 15:02:16 +0100 | <kuribas> | Interesting how dependent types blur the line between dynamic and static. For example, in haskell I can choose to pass JSON Value as opaque values, or to parse them into datatypes. |
| 2025-11-21 15:02:23 +0100 | <kuribas> | But the two approaches are mutual exclusive. |
| 2025-11-21 15:02:46 +0100 | <kuribas> | Other than messing with generics, you lose flexibility by putting values in data. |
| 2025-11-21 15:03:51 +0100 | <kuribas> | However with a dependent types (idris) I can treat the schema as a description of the value, which can be manipulated at runtime, so it's both a static and dynamic value. |
| 2025-11-21 15:04:01 +0100 | <Hecate> | kuribas: they blur the line only if you don't take advantage of them, by putting conditions in the type like 'Vector n where n > 3" or something |
| 2025-11-21 15:04:47 +0100 | <kuribas> | Hecate: it's there where the flexbility comes from, by putting your schema in the type. |
| 2025-11-21 15:05:10 +0100 | <kuribas> | The "n" in vector can be considered a static value, or something dynamic that can be manipulated at runtime. |
| 2025-11-21 15:06:54 +0100 | <kuribas> | You can somewhat emulate this in haskell, by lifting the computations into type level haskell, but it gets cumbersome to do type level computations. |
| 2025-11-21 15:12:02 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah |
| 2025-11-21 15:17:04 +0100 | biberu | (~biberu@user/biberu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-21 15:18:55 +0100 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 15:22:36 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | you can also create existentials, which sometimes allow you to do things that seem dependent |
| 2025-11-21 15:22:52 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | also GADTs and singletons allow you to simulate dependencies to a certain extent |
| 2025-11-21 15:23:28 +0100 | <tomsmeding> | though with singletons, you indeed either have to lift the computation to the type-level too, or have to deal with some kind of forgetfulness on the type level and use existentials |
| 2025-11-21 15:24:56 +0100 | Inline | (~inlinE@2001-4dd7-ae97-0-4674-ae6d-2607-c022.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2025-11-21 15:25:28 +0100 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2025-11-21 15:27:48 +0100 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect |
| 2025-11-21 15:30:45 +0100 | Googulator83 | (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) |
| 2025-11-21 15:32:01 +0100 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 15:34:09 +0100 | Googulator7 | (~Googulato@81.183.235.203) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 15:41:11 +0100 | <kuribas> | yes |
| 2025-11-21 15:48:33 +0100 | Inline | (~inlinE@2001-4dd7-ae97-0-4674-ae6d-2607-c022.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de) Inline |
| 2025-11-21 15:49:14 +0100 | YoungFrog | (~youngfrog@2a02:a03f:ca07:f900:5e58:dbf4:c0b:fbb3) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.x-git-3-96481995 - https://znc.in) |
| 2025-11-21 15:49:34 +0100 | YoungFrog | (~youngfrog@39.129-180-91.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) youngfrog |
| 2025-11-21 15:54:22 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Quit: ljdarj) |
| 2025-11-21 15:56:44 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2025-11-21 15:58:50 +0100 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell |
| 2025-11-21 16:01:02 +0100 | Googulator5 | (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) |
| 2025-11-21 16:04:03 +0100 | Googulator83 | (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 16:08:43 +0100 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/Lycurgus) Lycurgus |
| 2025-11-21 16:10:35 +0100 | <kuribas> | existentials are like dynamic types, but with dependent types I can compute on the unknown type part, without breaking static garantees, and without the need for a second language for type computations. |
| 2025-11-21 16:15:33 +0100 | <merijn> | how are existentials like dynamic types? |
| 2025-11-21 16:15:39 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> If you add Typeable constraint to your existentials you can query exact type at runtime too. |
| 2025-11-21 16:15:53 +0100 | <merijn> | You can kinda fake dynamic types with existentials, but they are far more principled |
| 2025-11-21 16:16:02 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.21.0.0/docs/Type-Reflection.html |
| 2025-11-21 16:16:20 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> you can do things like with C++ rtti then |
| 2025-11-21 16:16:32 +0100 | <kuribas> | merijn: yeah, it's the other way. |
| 2025-11-21 16:16:52 +0100 | <kuribas> | merijn: dynamic types are existentials, but not all existentials are like dynamic types. |
| 2025-11-21 16:17:11 +0100 | <merijn> | loonycyborg: You don't have to do that yourself, Dynamic exists already :) |
| 2025-11-21 16:17:13 +0100 | yin | (~zero@user/zero) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 16:17:35 +0100 | yin | (~zero@user/zero) zero |
| 2025-11-21 16:17:41 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> Thinking about the free monoid now. |
| 2025-11-21 16:17:55 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> If you don't use type.reflection then typeclass entirely determines what can you do with existential |
| 2025-11-21 16:18:19 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> that way they're not dynamic types but more like C++ virtual functions and abstract classes |
| 2025-11-21 16:18:24 +0100 | <kuribas> | merijn: A dynamic language just means every value is (Tag t ** t), Where Tag :: Type -> Type |
| 2025-11-21 16:18:28 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> newtype FreeMonoid a = FreeMonoid { runFreeMonoid :: forall r. Monoid r => (a -> r) -> r } |
| 2025-11-21 16:18:35 +0100 | sam113101 | (~sam@modemcable200.189-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-21 16:18:45 +0100 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod |
| 2025-11-21 16:19:08 +0100 | <kuribas> | merijn: but you hide the tag, and make primitive functions partial. |
| 2025-11-21 16:19:33 +0100 | <__monty__> | What can existentials express that dynamic types restrict? |
| 2025-11-21 16:20:16 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> It's the other way around |
| 2025-11-21 16:20:29 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> existentials can restric more than dynamic types |
| 2025-11-21 16:20:34 +0100 | <__monty__> | That's what I assumed. |
| 2025-11-21 16:20:38 +0100 | FragByte | (~christian@user/fragbyte) (Quit: Quit) |
| 2025-11-21 16:21:25 +0100 | <__monty__> | But kuribas' comment of "dynamic types are existentials, but not all existentials are dynamic types" is the other way around, no? |
| 2025-11-21 16:21:29 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> but with Typeable/Dynamic they're equivalent |
| 2025-11-21 16:21:42 +0100 | <kuribas> | __monty__: the existential can carry more information and guarantees. Restrict is a funny word for "guarantee". |
| 2025-11-21 16:22:13 +0100 | <kuribas> | Like "Hashable t => t ** t" |
| 2025-11-21 16:22:27 +0100 | <kuribas> | It restrict t to a hashable, but it's also a guarantee that the type is hashable. |
| 2025-11-21 16:22:37 +0100 | FragByte | (~christian@user/fragbyte) FragByte |
| 2025-11-21 16:23:21 +0100 | sam113101 | (~sam@modemcable200.189-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) sam113101 |
| 2025-11-21 16:26:04 +0100 | srazkvt | (~sarah@user/srazkvt) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2025-11-21 16:26:09 +0100 | sam113101 | (~sam@modemcable200.189-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-21 16:26:16 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> And if it's "(Hashable t, Dynamic t)" you can both use Hashable instance and reflect its exact type. |
| 2025-11-21 16:27:12 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> But obviously it can get less maintainable because compiler won't warn you if you change types in the origin but forget to update uses of Typeable. |
| 2025-11-21 16:30:04 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> And if it's "(Hashable t, Typeable t)" you can both use Hashable instance and reflect its exact type. |
| 2025-11-21 16:30:42 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2025-11-21 16:30:46 +0100 | Googulator75 | (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) |
| 2025-11-21 16:31:15 +0100 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo |
| 2025-11-21 16:31:16 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> btw does the matrix bridge support showing edits to IRC? |
| 2025-11-21 16:31:30 +0100 | <__monty__> | Basically repeats the entire message. |
| 2025-11-21 16:32:11 +0100 | sindu | (~sindu@2.148.32.207.tmi.telenormobil.no) |
| 2025-11-21 16:32:38 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> It's better than losing them |
| 2025-11-21 16:33:00 +0100 | <lucabtz> | well losing them isnt really possible through IRC |
| 2025-11-21 16:33:08 +0100 | <lucabtz> | once sent it is sen |
| 2025-11-21 16:33:17 +0100 | <lucabtz> | s/sen/sent |
| 2025-11-21 16:33:46 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> I mean not showing in the first place :P |
| 2025-11-21 16:33:57 +0100 | Googulator5 | (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 16:34:20 +0100 | timide | (~timide@user/timide) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 16:35:00 +0100 | <lucabtz> | like not showing the edit? |
| 2025-11-21 16:35:16 +0100 | <lucabtz> | it would be cool if it only sent a diff with the edit |
| 2025-11-21 16:36:13 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> Indeed |
| 2025-11-21 16:36:21 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> but it's a hard ask honestly |
| 2025-11-21 16:36:40 +0100 | <__monty__> | As long as the diff is shorter that is. |
| 2025-11-21 16:36:55 +0100 | Googulator75 | (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-11-21 16:37:12 +0100 | Googulator75 | (~Googulato@81.183.235.203) |
| 2025-11-21 16:37:31 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> But if things aren't context aware then it could be worse than showing it entirely |
| 2025-11-21 16:38:07 +0100 | Vajb | (~Vajb@n4bl3ovzcj023yptes7-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 16:38:34 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> Like if you edit some message you made month ago in a busy channel :P |
| 2025-11-21 16:38:38 +0100 | FragByte | (~christian@user/fragbyte) (Quit: Quit) |
| 2025-11-21 16:40:01 +0100 | <__monty__> | Maybe we should move to off-topic? What context could you provide other than a timestamp? And if just a timestamp, most people don't have theirs in UTC. |
| 2025-11-21 16:40:44 +0100 | FragByte | (~christian@user/fragbyte) FragByte |
| 2025-11-21 16:41:58 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> I mean sometimes in IRC people correct themselves with conventions such as *something to correct a single word |
| 2025-11-21 16:42:01 +0100 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 16:42:15 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> and it requires context to understand |
| 2025-11-21 16:42:22 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> I don't think it can be replicated in general without human understanding |
| 2025-11-21 16:42:30 +0100 | polykernel_ | (~polykerne@user/polykernel) polykernel |
| 2025-11-21 16:42:50 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> As in AI-complete problem |
| 2025-11-21 16:44:01 +0100 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 16:44:07 +0100 | sindu | (~sindu@2.148.32.207.tmi.telenormobil.no) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 16:44:55 +0100 | <lucabtz> | i think s/old/new would look cool, if the edit is of an old message it would be better to not send it to IRC instead because it would make little sense to see the edit here |
| 2025-11-21 16:45:13 +0100 | polykernel | (~polykerne@user/polykernel) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 16:45:14 +0100 | polykernel_ | polykernel |
| 2025-11-21 16:45:18 +0100 | Vajb | (~Vajb@n4bleudhyon0g5ws745-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 2025-11-21 16:45:39 +0100 | <lucabtz> | __monty__ is offtopic bridged to matrix too? |
| 2025-11-21 16:45:55 +0100 | <__monty__> | I assumed it was, but I don't *know*. |
| 2025-11-21 16:47:18 +0100 | raoul | (~raoul@95.179.203.88) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)) |
| 2025-11-21 16:48:19 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I don't think it is, or at least it doesn't show up in the lobby |
| 2025-11-21 16:48:59 +0100 | corecaps | (~igloo@user/corecaps) corecaps |
| 2025-11-21 16:49:13 +0100 | <geekosaur> | the bridge will show an edit with * if it's short enough and it's editing themost recent message the user sent; otherwise it resends the whole message |
| 2025-11-21 16:49:20 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::1370) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 16:49:25 +0100 | <geekosaur> | offtopic isn't bridged |
| 2025-11-21 16:49:40 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@2001:708:150:10::7e06) fp |
| 2025-11-21 16:49:53 +0100 | raoul | (~raoul@95.179.203.88) raoul |
| 2025-11-21 16:50:03 +0100 | <lucabtz> | geekosaur okay that's cool |
| 2025-11-21 16:50:26 +0100 | <chromoblob> | it should resend whole message with a * |
| 2025-11-21 16:51:01 +0100 | <geekosaur> | you can file a bug report for heisenbridge… |
| 2025-11-21 16:51:32 +0100 | EvanR_ | EvanR |
| 2025-11-21 16:52:08 +0100 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2025-11-21 16:52:17 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) |
| 2025-11-21 16:52:46 +0100 | sam113101 | (~sam@modemcable200.189-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) sam113101 |
| 2025-11-21 16:53:09 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I fear resending the whole message would lead to a lot of accidental spam |
| 2025-11-21 16:53:34 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Maybe would be nice to buffer a message for five seconds and apply edits to the buffer if you're fast enough |
| 2025-11-21 16:54:27 +0100 | <__monty__> | Yeah, I don't like the full repeat. So hard to actually spot what changed. |
| 2025-11-21 16:57:47 +0100 | <EvanR> | it can be hard for the computer to spot what changed |
| 2025-11-21 16:58:01 +0100 | <EvanR> | which is more where we want to be on that |
| 2025-11-21 16:58:40 +0100 | Square3 | (~Square@user/square) Square |
| 2025-11-21 16:59:27 +0100 | corecaps | (~igloo@user/corecaps) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 16:59:30 +0100 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-152-225-194.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Tuplanolla |
| 2025-11-21 16:59:43 +0100 | Vajb | (~Vajb@n4bleudhyon0g5ws745-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 17:01:04 +0100 | Googulator82 | (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) |
| 2025-11-21 17:01:17 +0100 | corecaps | (~igloo@user/corecaps) corecaps |
| 2025-11-21 17:02:10 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2025-11-21 17:02:39 +0100 | Vajb | (~Vajb@n5f2pnc8xvnar9hzscx-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 2025-11-21 17:03:55 +0100 | fp | (~Thunderbi@2001:708:150:10::7e06) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 17:04:17 +0100 | Googulator75 | (~Googulato@81.183.235.203) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 17:06:34 +0100 | <geekosaur> | heisenbridge's actually pretty decent at it. as long as it's the most recent message |
| 2025-11-21 17:07:35 +0100 | <geekosaur> | that said, if you change both ends of a long message, it outputs the whole message gaain instead of two edits |
| 2025-11-21 17:10:49 +0100 | codolio | (~dolio@130.44.140.168) (Quit: ZNC 1.10.1 - https://znc.in) |
| 2025-11-21 17:11:29 +0100 | corecaps | (~igloo@user/corecaps) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 17:12:13 +0100 | dolio | (~dolio@130.44.140.168) dolio |
| 2025-11-21 17:12:17 +0100 | FragByte_ | (~christian@user/fragbyte) FragByte |
| 2025-11-21 17:14:24 +0100 | FragByte | (~christian@user/fragbyte) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 17:14:24 +0100 | FragByte_ | FragByte |
| 2025-11-21 17:15:31 +0100 | dolio | (~dolio@130.44.140.168) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-11-21 17:16:26 +0100 | dolio | (~dolio@130.44.140.168) dolio |
| 2025-11-21 17:21:37 +0100 | Vajb | (~Vajb@n5f2pnc8xvnar9hzscx-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 17:21:45 +0100 | timide | (~timide@user/timide) timide |
| 2025-11-21 17:22:32 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) |
| 2025-11-21 17:24:25 +0100 | Vajb | (~Vajb@n4w7puti44x2voev9cr-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 2025-11-21 17:27:37 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 17:29:25 +0100 | Lord_of_Life_ | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life |
| 2025-11-21 17:30:13 +0100 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 17:30:44 +0100 | Lord_of_Life_ | Lord_of_Life |
| 2025-11-21 17:34:48 +0100 | polykernel | (~polykerne@user/polykernel) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 17:35:07 +0100 | polykernel | (~polykerne@user/polykernel) polykernel |
| 2025-11-21 17:35:07 +0100 | lucabtz | (~lucabtz@user/lucabtz) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 17:38:48 +0100 | FragByte | (~christian@user/fragbyte) (Quit: Quit) |
| 2025-11-21 17:39:31 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 17:40:53 +0100 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 17:42:21 +0100 | marinelli | (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) marinelli |
| 2025-11-21 17:43:10 +0100 | ouilemur | (~jgmerritt@user/ouilemur) (Quit: WeeChat 4.7.0) |
| 2025-11-21 17:46:18 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 17:49:03 +0100 | CiaoSen | (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 17:49:55 +0100 | Vajb | (~Vajb@n4w7puti44x2voev9cr-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 17:50:23 +0100 | mauke | (~mauke@user/mauke) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 17:50:25 +0100 | preflex | (~preflex@user/mauke/bot/preflex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 17:51:39 +0100 | Vajb | (~Vajb@n5gequa6sjlhrxrjaky-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 2025-11-21 17:52:13 +0100 | preflex | (~preflex@user/mauke/bot/preflex) preflex |
| 2025-11-21 17:52:39 +0100 | sindu | (~sindu@2.148.32.207.tmi.telenormobil.no) |
| 2025-11-21 17:53:46 +0100 | gehmehgeh | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) gehmehgeh |
| 2025-11-21 17:54:18 +0100 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 17:54:22 +0100 | gehmehgeh | gmg |
| 2025-11-21 17:54:33 +0100 | kuribas | (~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 17:56:31 +0100 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2025-11-21 17:57:33 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 18:01:14 +0100 | Googulator7 | (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) |
| 2025-11-21 18:02:25 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 18:02:34 +0100 | Xe_ | Xe |
| 2025-11-21 18:04:05 +0100 | Googulator82 | (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 18:04:27 +0100 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 18:05:03 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2025-11-21 18:05:11 +0100 | AlexNoo_ | AlexNoo |
| 2025-11-21 18:05:16 +0100 | Vajb | (~Vajb@n5gequa6sjlhrxrjaky-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 18:06:48 +0100 | Vajb | (~Vajb@85-76-107-130-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 2025-11-21 18:08:25 +0100 | malte | (~malte@mal.tc) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 18:09:58 +0100 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 18:11:50 +0100 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2025-11-21 18:13:02 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 18:15:42 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) |
| 2025-11-21 18:17:39 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 18:18:25 +0100 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: alsoknownas.renjuan.org ( juan@acm.org )) |
| 2025-11-21 18:23:39 +0100 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 18:25:13 +0100 | sindu | (~sindu@2.148.32.207.tmi.telenormobil.no) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 18:26:08 +0100 | tzh | (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 2025-11-21 18:27:46 +0100 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 18:28:26 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 18:28:43 +0100 | vardhan | (~vardhan@122.172.85.147) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 18:29:34 +0100 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Quit: sord937) |
| 2025-11-21 18:29:38 +0100 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 18:32:56 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 18:35:48 +0100 | qqe | (~qqq@185.54.21.140) |
| 2025-11-21 18:39:34 +0100 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-21 18:39:47 +0100 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2025-11-21 18:43:49 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 18:44:20 +0100 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) jmcantrell |
| 2025-11-21 18:47:11 +0100 | polykernel_ | (~polykerne@user/polykernel) polykernel |
| 2025-11-21 18:48:33 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 18:49:18 +0100 | marinelli | (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 18:50:05 +0100 | Catty | catties |
| 2025-11-21 18:50:06 +0100 | polykernel | (~polykerne@user/polykernel) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 18:50:06 +0100 | polykernel_ | polykernel |
| 2025-11-21 18:50:15 +0100 | marinelli | (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) marinelli |
| 2025-11-21 18:50:19 +0100 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-21 18:50:33 +0100 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2025-11-21 18:51:36 +0100 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2025-11-21 18:53:40 +0100 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-21 18:59:18 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 18:59:47 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2025-11-21 19:00:27 +0100 | Dhark8 | Shark8 |
| 2025-11-21 19:00:52 +0100 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2025-11-21 19:01:06 +0100 | Vajb | (~Vajb@85-76-107-130-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 19:01:26 +0100 | Vajb | (~Vajb@n7k9gf95j3ud2llqzrc-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 2025-11-21 19:02:50 +0100 | synchromesh | (~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:58f6:2167:890b:2ed2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-21 19:03:55 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 19:04:08 +0100 | synchromesh | (~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:58f6:2167:890b:2ed2) synchromesh |
| 2025-11-21 19:05:09 +0100 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-152-225-194.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2025-11-21 19:07:55 +0100 | remedan_ | (~remedan@78-80-95-79.customers.tmcz.cz) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2025-11-21 19:08:28 +0100 | Vajb | (~Vajb@n7k9gf95j3ud2llqzrc-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 19:09:02 +0100 | Vajb | (~Vajb@n720r98vdho1vtnt3mg-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 2025-11-21 19:13:17 +0100 | FANTOM | (~fantom@212.228.181.156) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 19:14:41 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 19:15:11 +0100 | FANTOM | (~fantom@212.228.181.156) |
| 2025-11-21 19:19:16 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 19:19:20 +0100 | tt12316 | (~tt1231@2603:6010:8700:4a81:a4f6:acff:fe95:3803) (*.net *.split) |
| 2025-11-21 19:19:20 +0100 | xal | (~xal@mx1.xal.systems) (*.net *.split) |
| 2025-11-21 19:19:20 +0100 | enikar | (~enikar@user/enikar) (*.net *.split) |
| 2025-11-21 19:19:20 +0100 | tcard_ | (~tcard@2400:4051:5801:7500:cf17:befc:ff82:5303) (*.net *.split) |
| 2025-11-21 19:19:20 +0100 | sp1ff | (~user@2601:1c2:4c00:6820::8bad) (*.net *.split) |
| 2025-11-21 19:19:20 +0100 | arahael | (~wetfoot@user/arahael) (*.net *.split) |
| 2025-11-21 19:19:20 +0100 | elenril | (~elenril@tutturu.khirnov.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 2025-11-21 19:24:28 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) |
| 2025-11-21 19:24:44 +0100 | tt12316 | (~tt1231@2603:6010:8700:4a81:a4f6:acff:fe95:3803) tt1231 |
| 2025-11-21 19:24:44 +0100 | xal | (~xal@mx1.xal.systems) xal |
| 2025-11-21 19:24:44 +0100 | enikar | (~enikar@user/enikar) enikar |
| 2025-11-21 19:24:44 +0100 | tcard_ | (~tcard@2400:4051:5801:7500:cf17:befc:ff82:5303) |
| 2025-11-21 19:24:44 +0100 | sp1ff | (~user@2601:1c2:4c00:6820::8bad) sp1ff |
| 2025-11-21 19:24:44 +0100 | arahael | (~wetfoot@user/arahael) arahael |
| 2025-11-21 19:24:44 +0100 | elenril | (~elenril@tutturu.khirnov.net) elenril |
| 2025-11-21 19:28:52 +0100 | jmcantrell | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 19:29:26 +0100 | malte | (~malte@mal.tc) malte |
| 2025-11-21 19:30:48 +0100 | Vajb | (~Vajb@n720r98vdho1vtnt3mg-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 19:31:38 +0100 | Vajb | (~Vajb@n6jrirf92qztswrjkg8-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 2025-11-21 19:40:23 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 19:45:04 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 19:50:52 +0100 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) user363627 |
| 2025-11-21 19:55:56 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 20:00:37 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 20:04:27 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2025-11-21 20:05:47 +0100 | Googulator78 | (~Googulato@81.183.235.203) |
| 2025-11-21 20:08:12 +0100 | m1dnight | (~m1dnight@d8D861A17.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 20:08:47 +0100 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) |
| 2025-11-21 20:08:53 +0100 | Googulator7 | (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 20:11:19 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 20:15:55 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 20:16:17 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) peterbecich |
| 2025-11-21 20:16:55 +0100 | remedan | (~remedan@78-80-95-79.customers.tmcz.cz) remedan |
| 2025-11-21 20:17:09 +0100 | Anarchos | (~Anarchos@91-161-254-16.subs.proxad.net) Anarchos |
| 2025-11-21 20:22:23 +0100 | ZLima12 | (~zlima12@user/meow/ZLima12) ZLima12 |
| 2025-11-21 20:22:24 +0100 | Nachtgespenst | (~user@user/siracusa) siracusa |
| 2025-11-21 20:22:29 +0100 | ZLima12_ | (~zlima12@user/meow/ZLima12) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 20:23:30 +0100 | mauke | (~mauke@user/mauke) mauke |
| 2025-11-21 20:25:59 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 20:29:38 +0100 | m1dnight | (~m1dnight@d8D861A17.access.telenet.be) m1dnight |
| 2025-11-21 20:30:20 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 20:33:26 +0100 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-21 20:34:06 +0100 | haltingsolver | (~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) |
| 2025-11-21 20:34:12 +0100 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2025-11-21 20:36:07 +0100 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect |
| 2025-11-21 20:36:59 +0100 | Anarchos | (~Anarchos@91-161-254-16.subs.proxad.net) (Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!) |
| 2025-11-21 20:41:15 +0100 | Anarchos | (~Anarchos@91-161-254-16.subs.proxad.net) Anarchos |
| 2025-11-21 20:41:22 +0100 | infinity0 | (~infinity0@pwned.gg) (Quit: WeeChat 4.6.3) |
| 2025-11-21 20:41:23 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 20:41:38 +0100 | Dhark8 | (~Shark8@c-174-56-102-109.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 2025-11-21 20:41:46 +0100 | infinity0 | (~infinity0@pwned.gg) infinity0 |
| 2025-11-21 20:43:15 +0100 | infinity0 | (~infinity0@pwned.gg) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-11-21 20:43:43 +0100 | poscat0x04 | (~poscat@user/poscat) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 20:44:48 +0100 | infinity0 | (~infinity0@pwned.gg) infinity0 |
| 2025-11-21 20:45:19 +0100 | Shark8 | (~Shark8@c-174-56-102-109.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 20:46:52 +0100 | marlino | (~marlino@96-8-193-104.block0.gvtc.com) |
| 2025-11-21 20:47:14 +0100 | poscat | (~poscat@user/poscat) poscat |
| 2025-11-21 20:47:40 +0100 | infinity0 | (~infinity0@pwned.gg) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-11-21 20:48:40 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 20:50:09 +0100 | infinity0 | (~infinity0@pwned.gg) infinity0 |
| 2025-11-21 20:54:41 +0100 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@94.233.240.123) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 20:59:25 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 21:00:51 +0100 | Googulator11 | (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) |
| 2025-11-21 21:03:48 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 21:03:55 +0100 | Googulator78 | (~Googulato@81.183.235.203) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2025-11-21 21:05:29 +0100 | Dhark8 | Shark8 |
| 2025-11-21 21:09:11 +0100 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@94.233.240.123) |
| 2025-11-21 21:14:48 +0100 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-11-21 21:15:37 +0100 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-11-21 21:17:02 +0100 | ouilemur | (~jgmerritt@user/ouilemur) ouilemur |
| 2025-11-21 21:19:16 +0100 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |