| 2025-08-28 00:00:34 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@142.254.125.158) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 00:00:37 +0200 | ec | (~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-08-28 00:01:00 +0200 | ec | (~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) ec |
| 2025-08-28 00:15:08 +0200 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 00:15:55 +0200 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal |
| 2025-08-28 00:16:52 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit |
| 2025-08-28 00:19:17 +0200 | hc | (~hc@mail.hce.li) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-08-28 00:19:31 +0200 | hc | (~hc@mail.hce.li) hc |
| 2025-08-28 00:20:50 +0200 | peutri | (~peutri@bobo.desast.re) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-08-28 00:21:00 +0200 | peutri | (~peutri@bobo.desast.re) peutri |
| 2025-08-28 00:30:36 +0200 | notzmv | (~umar@user/notzmv) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-08-28 00:37:54 +0200 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-08-28 00:40:34 +0200 | ljdarj1 | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2025-08-28 00:44:32 +0200 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 00:44:32 +0200 | ljdarj1 | ljdarj |
| 2025-08-28 00:44:58 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod |
| 2025-08-28 00:50:57 +0200 | tremon | (~tremon@83.80.159.219) (Quit: getting boxed in) |
| 2025-08-28 00:58:11 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) Sgeo |
| 2025-08-28 00:59:36 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:c3c2:5734:3789:d6a1) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 01:00:32 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:19de:4997:404:5625) |
| 2025-08-28 01:01:21 +0200 | jreicher | (~user@user/jreicher) jreicher |
| 2025-08-28 01:08:02 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 01:10:24 +0200 | sprotte24 | (~sprotte24@p200300d16f05d70019dbd74b079549bc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2025-08-28 01:11:56 +0200 | ttybitnik | (~ttybitnik@user/wolper) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 01:19:37 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2025-08-28 01:20:02 +0200 | fgarcia | (~lei@user/fgarcia) (Quit: Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-08-28 01:21:43 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 01:21:48 +0200 | Axman9593 | (~Axman6@user/axman6) Axman6 |
| 2025-08-28 01:23:57 +0200 | fgarcia | (~lei@user/fgarcia) fgarcia |
| 2025-08-28 01:26:37 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 01:26:49 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 01:30:22 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2025-08-28 01:30:45 +0200 | Axman6 | (~Axman6@user/axman6) (*.net *.split) |
| 2025-08-28 01:32:16 +0200 | lol_ | (~lol@2603:3016:1e01:b960:14c0:7a30:3283:d6ed) |
| 2025-08-28 01:32:40 +0200 | trickard__ | trickard |
| 2025-08-28 01:34:57 +0200 | fgarcia | (~lei@user/fgarcia) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-08-28 01:36:06 +0200 | jcarpenter2 | (~lol@2603:3016:1e01:b960:a521:2571:4042:b249) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 01:37:31 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 01:41:17 +0200 | fgarcia | (~lei@user/fgarcia) fgarcia |
| 2025-08-28 01:42:36 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 01:44:53 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-08-28 01:45:16 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2025-08-28 01:51:05 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 01:56:08 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 02:06:52 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 02:12:03 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 02:21:30 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7171900a9f37d216dcd4f2e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 02:22:39 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 02:27:00 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 02:28:32 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 02:39:42 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 02:43:17 +0200 | scysta | (~tiara@152.173.218.186) Scysta |
| 2025-08-28 02:44:38 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 02:46:21 +0200 | alethkit | (23bd17ddc6@sourcehut/user/alethkit) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-08-28 02:46:31 +0200 | alethkit | (23bd17ddc6@sourcehut/user/alethkit) alethkit |
| 2025-08-28 02:55:27 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 02:57:23 +0200 | lexi-lambda | (sid92601@id-92601.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-08-28 02:57:33 +0200 | lexi-lambda | (sid92601@id-92601.hampstead.irccloud.com) lexi-lambda |
| 2025-08-28 02:58:23 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit |
| 2025-08-28 03:00:20 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 03:09:44 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:19de:4997:404:5625) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 03:11:16 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 03:16:27 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 03:18:17 +0200 | Axman9593 | Axman6 |
| 2025-08-28 03:27:25 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 03:30:57 +0200 | robertm | (robertm@lattice.rojoma.com) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-08-28 03:31:16 +0200 | robertm | (robertm@lattice.rojoma.com) robertm |
| 2025-08-28 03:34:01 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 03:42:10 +0200 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 03:42:43 +0200 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/Lycurgus) Lycurgus |
| 2025-08-28 03:45:28 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 03:52:39 +0200 | shawwwn | (sid6132@id-6132.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-08-28 03:52:50 +0200 | shawwwn | (sid6132@id-6132.helmsley.irccloud.com) shawwwn |
| 2025-08-28 03:52:56 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 03:56:49 +0200 | trickard | (~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-08-28 03:57:03 +0200 | trickard_ | (~trickard@cpe-57-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 2025-08-28 03:58:26 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-08-28 03:58:50 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2025-08-28 04:02:29 +0200 | ProofTechnique_ | (sid79547@id-79547.ilkley.irccloud.com) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-08-28 04:02:38 +0200 | ProofTechnique_ | (sid79547@id-79547.ilkley.irccloud.com) |
| 2025-08-28 04:04:20 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 04:08:17 +0200 | marinelli | (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-08-28 04:08:39 +0200 | marinelli | (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) marinelli |
| 2025-08-28 04:09:21 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 04:09:57 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) |
| 2025-08-28 04:14:53 +0200 | lambdabot | (~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-08-28 04:15:01 +0200 | lambdabot | (~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu) |
| 2025-08-28 04:15:01 +0200 | lambdabot | (~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu) (Changing host) |
| 2025-08-28 04:15:01 +0200 | lambdabot | (~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot) lambdabot |
| 2025-08-28 04:15:01 +0200 | ChanServ | +v lambdabot |
| 2025-08-28 04:20:33 +0200 | eso | (a0662dfd5e@2a03:6000:1812:100::1266) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-08-28 04:20:41 +0200 | eso | (a0662dfd5e@2a03:6000:1812:100::1266) jeso |
| 2025-08-28 04:23:04 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 04:25:27 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 04:25:33 +0200 | saolsen | (sid26430@id-26430.lymington.irccloud.com) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-08-28 04:25:48 +0200 | saolsen | (sid26430@id-26430.lymington.irccloud.com) saolsen |
| 2025-08-28 04:27:06 +0200 | integral | (sid296274@user/integral) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-08-28 04:27:19 +0200 | integral | (sid296274@user/integral) integral |
| 2025-08-28 04:27:25 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 04:31:45 +0200 | astra | (sid289983@id-289983.hampstead.irccloud.com) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-08-28 04:32:00 +0200 | astra | (sid289983@id-289983.hampstead.irccloud.com) |
| 2025-08-28 04:32:27 +0200 | gaze__ | (sid387101@id-387101.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Software caused connection abort) |
| 2025-08-28 04:32:38 +0200 | gaze__ | (sid387101@id-387101.helmsley.irccloud.com) gaze__ |
| 2025-08-28 04:38:27 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 04:39:09 +0200 | fn_lumi | (3d621153a5@2a03:6000:1812:100::df7) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-08-28 04:39:18 +0200 | fn_lumi | (3d621153a5@2a03:6000:1812:100::df7) fn_lumi |
| 2025-08-28 04:41:29 +0200 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: alsoknownas.renjuan.org ( juan@acm.org )) |
| 2025-08-28 04:43:28 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 04:44:48 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) machinedgod |
| 2025-08-28 04:44:57 +0200 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) user363627 |
| 2025-08-28 04:54:15 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 04:59:11 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 05:05:25 +0200 | Unicorn_Princess | (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-08-28 05:06:12 +0200 | mmaruseacph2 | (~mihai@mihai.page) (Read error: Software caused connection abort) |
| 2025-08-28 05:10:04 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 05:11:31 +0200 | mmaruseacph2 | (~mihai@mihai.page) mmaruseacph2 |
| 2025-08-28 05:17:02 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 05:23:44 +0200 | divya | (divya@140.238.251.170) (Read error: Software caused connection abort) |
| 2025-08-28 05:27:14 +0200 | lambdap23717 | (~lambdap@static.167.190.119.168.clients.your-server.de) (Read error: Software caused connection abort) |
| 2025-08-28 05:27:32 +0200 | lambdap23717 | (~lambdap@static.167.190.119.168.clients.your-server.de) |
| 2025-08-28 05:27:56 +0200 | noteness | (~noteness@user/noteness) (Read error: Software caused connection abort) |
| 2025-08-28 05:28:06 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 05:28:28 +0200 | trickard_ | trickard |
| 2025-08-28 05:31:22 +0200 | noteness | (~noteness@user/noteness) nessessary129 |
| 2025-08-28 05:32:55 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 05:33:00 +0200 | Guest64 | (~Guest93@2607:fb91:14df:89a5:7967:c050:d094:51a8) |
| 2025-08-28 05:33:21 +0200 | aforemny_ | (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6ce1:6300:21a5:3c39:3acb:d09f) aforemny |
| 2025-08-28 05:33:22 +0200 | aforemny | (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cc5:2e00:296d:a9d3:b7bc:dd10) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 05:33:56 +0200 | divya | (divya@140.238.251.170) divya |
| 2025-08-28 05:34:57 +0200 | dutchie | (~dutchie@user/dutchie) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-08-28 05:35:11 +0200 | dutchie | (~dutchie@user/dutchie) dutchie |
| 2025-08-28 05:37:02 +0200 | whereiseveryone | (206ba86c98@2a03:6000:1812:100::2e4) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-08-28 05:37:10 +0200 | whereiseveryone | (206ba86c98@2a03:6000:1812:100::2e4) whereiseveryone |
| 2025-08-28 05:38:24 +0200 | dumptruckman | (~dumptruck@66-175-211-75.ip.linodeusercontent.com) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-08-28 05:40:17 +0200 | Guest64 | (~Guest93@2607:fb91:14df:89a5:7967:c050:d094:51a8) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-08-28 05:40:42 +0200 | dumptruckman | (~dumptruck@66-175-211-75.ip.linodeusercontent.com) |
| 2025-08-28 05:41:30 +0200 | Guest89 | (~Guest93@2607:fb91:14df:89a5:7967:c050:d094:51a8) |
| 2025-08-28 05:42:02 +0200 | Guest89 | (~Guest93@2607:fb91:14df:89a5:7967:c050:d094:51a8) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-08-28 05:43:32 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 2025-08-28 05:43:50 +0200 | zlqrvx | (~zlqrvx@2001:8003:8c8b:e00:374a:bdcb:457c:d1e3) |
| 2025-08-28 05:43:53 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 05:47:27 +0200 | zlqrvx | (~zlqrvx@2001:8003:8c8b:e00:374a:bdcb:457c:d1e3) (Client Quit) |
| 2025-08-28 05:47:50 +0200 | zlqrvx | (~zlqrvx@2001:8003:8c8b:e00:374a:bdcb:457c:d1e3) |
| 2025-08-28 05:48:54 +0200 | Raito_Bezarius | (~Raito@libera/contributor/wireguard.tunneler.raito-bezarius) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-08-28 05:49:07 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 05:49:27 +0200 | dutchie | (~dutchie@user/dutchie) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-08-28 05:49:30 +0200 | Raito_Bezarius | (~Raito@libera/contributor/wireguard.tunneler.raito-bezarius) Raito_Bezarius |
| 2025-08-28 05:50:34 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@user/siracusa) siracusa |
| 2025-08-28 05:50:50 +0200 | praidnan | (~weatflac@106.195.39.246) |
| 2025-08-28 05:51:27 +0200 | emperori | (~emperori@106.195.39.246) |
| 2025-08-28 05:51:56 +0200 | dutchie | (~dutchie@user/dutchie) dutchie |
| 2025-08-28 05:57:54 +0200 | Googulator68 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-28ad-d14e-68ce-c41e-4464.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2025-08-28 05:58:13 +0200 | Googulator68 | (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-28ad-d14e-68ce-c41e-4464.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 2025-08-28 05:59:40 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 06:00:44 +0200 | fgarcia | (~lei@user/fgarcia) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 06:01:26 +0200 | zlqrvx | (~zlqrvx@2001:8003:8c8b:e00:374a:bdcb:457c:d1e3) (Quit: ZNC 1.10.0 - https://znc.in) |
| 2025-08-28 06:03:12 +0200 | Frostillicus | (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 06:04:44 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 06:05:34 +0200 | fgarcia | (~lei@user/fgarcia) fgarcia |
| 2025-08-28 06:07:15 +0200 | praidnan_ | (~weatflac@106.195.34.92) |
| 2025-08-28 06:09:30 +0200 | emperori | (~emperori@106.195.39.246) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 06:10:29 +0200 | praidnan | (~weatflac@106.195.39.246) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 06:15:27 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 06:16:48 +0200 | haveo | (~weechat@pacamara.iuwt.fr) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-08-28 06:17:12 +0200 | haveo | (~weechat@pacamara.iuwt.fr) haveo |
| 2025-08-28 06:20:27 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 06:20:45 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 06:24:04 +0200 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-08-28 06:28:00 +0200 | ackthet | (~ackthet@user/ackthet) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-08-28 06:28:19 +0200 | ackthet | (~ackthet@user/ackthet) ackthet |
| 2025-08-28 06:31:15 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 06:36:08 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 06:36:25 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit |
| 2025-08-28 06:40:56 +0200 | _d0t | (~{-d0t-}@user/-d0t-/x-7915216) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 06:43:26 +0200 | mange | (~mange@user/mange) mange |
| 2025-08-28 06:43:31 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
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| 2025-08-28 08:51:48 +0200 | dyniec | (~dyniec@dybiec.info) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-08-28 08:52:01 +0200 | dyniec | (~dyniec@dybiec.info) |
| 2025-08-28 08:54:18 +0200 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Quit: Leaving...) |
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| 2025-08-28 08:54:36 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> tomsmeding: No mention of them in the docs; #haskell-stack:matrix.org (https://matrix.to/#/#haskell-stack:matrix.org) will know |
| 2025-08-28 08:54:54 +0200 | thatonelutenist | (8216c46202@2a03:6000:1812:100::fb3) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-08-28 08:55:02 +0200 | thatonelutenist | (8216c46202@2a03:6000:1812:100::fb3) thatonelutenist |
| 2025-08-28 08:55:15 +0200 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) |
| 2025-08-28 08:55:19 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
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| 2025-08-28 08:55:53 +0200 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) humasect |
| 2025-08-28 09:00:01 +0200 | caconym747 | (~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye) |
| 2025-08-28 09:00:42 +0200 | caconym747 | (~caconym@user/caconym) caconym |
| 2025-08-28 09:02:48 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit |
| 2025-08-28 09:03:37 +0200 | <c_wraith> | as far as I know, stack uses cabal to actually install packages. (separate from determining which ones to install and downloading them) |
| 2025-08-28 09:03:48 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 09:04:12 +0200 | <c_wraith> | So it will support mix-ins used by packages that your project depends on |
| 2025-08-28 09:06:41 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:6941:8da5:79d5:ac1b) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2025-08-28 09:09:07 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 09:09:24 +0200 | jreicher | (~user@user/jreicher) (Quit: In transit) |
| 2025-08-28 09:09:27 +0200 | <Franciman> | stack is one of the worst software i have ever seen in terms of ecosystem coexistence |
| 2025-08-28 09:14:01 +0200 | hsw | (~hsw@112-104-9-97.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) hsw |
| 2025-08-28 09:15:49 +0200 | <Axman6> | There've been a few features added to Cabal that haven't been supported by syack for a very long time (or at all? I seem to remember multiple libraries per project, or something like that, not being supported?) |
| 2025-08-28 09:17:43 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> At least stack has good documentation for all the features it supports ;-) |
| 2025-08-28 09:22:02 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 09:26:14 +0200 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Excess Flood) |
| 2025-08-28 09:26:45 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 09:27:12 +0200 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life |
| 2025-08-28 09:30:24 +0200 | jess | (meow@libera/staff/cat/jess) (Read error: Software caused connection abort) |
| 2025-08-28 09:31:52 +0200 | jreicher | (~user@user/jreicher) jreicher |
| 2025-08-28 09:32:58 +0200 | jess | (meow@libera/staff/cat/jess) jess |
| 2025-08-28 09:34:58 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> Axman6: From https://docs.haskellstack.org/en/stable/ChangeLog I get the impression that stack started support for multi-library packages (AKA sub libraries AKA internal libraries ...) around 2018, and has been steadily improving that support ever since |
| 2025-08-28 09:37:30 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 09:41:46 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
| 2025-08-28 09:41:53 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> backpack support is another one people usually ask about; AFAIK it's not in stack and consensus is that the feature has failed as an practical feature in cabal/ghc (it should be in the language not the tools) |
| 2025-08-28 09:42:34 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 09:48:57 +0200 | mange | (~mange@user/mange) (Quit: Quittin' time!) |
| 2025-08-28 09:49:02 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 09:49:38 +0200 | <Franciman> | where is maerwald? |
| 2025-08-28 09:50:17 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <maerwald> what? |
| 2025-08-28 09:51:45 +0200 | <Franciman> | what's up? |
| 2025-08-28 09:51:52 +0200 | <Franciman> | how are you? |
| 2025-08-28 09:52:02 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <maerwald> fixing ghc and cabal |
| 2025-08-28 09:53:03 +0200 | <Franciman> | cool |
| 2025-08-28 09:54:07 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 09:54:09 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <maerwald> What else is there to do |
| 2025-08-28 09:56:58 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> Hmm. are mixins and backpack different names for the same thing ? |
| 2025-08-28 09:58:09 +0200 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) ljdarj |
| 2025-08-28 09:58:46 +0200 | Googulator68 | Googulator |
| 2025-08-28 10:03:33 +0200 | <Franciman> | backpack is a way to emulate certain of the properties of standard ml module system, iiuc |
| 2025-08-28 10:03:44 +0200 | <Franciman> | aren't mixins a way to solve the expression problem? |
| 2025-08-28 10:03:44 +0200 | paul | (~paul@p200300d0c724c95b1313013fcbfec0be.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2025-08-28 10:03:48 +0200 | paul | Guest8610 |
| 2025-08-28 10:04:07 +0200 | marinelli | (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-08-28 10:04:50 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 10:04:53 +0200 | marinelli | (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) marinelli |
| 2025-08-28 10:05:12 +0200 | FANTOM | (~fantom@87.74.59.94) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 10:05:49 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 10:06:22 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 10:07:38 +0200 | tzh | (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2025-08-28 10:09:09 +0200 | <sm> | https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/stable/cabal-package-description-file.html#pkg-field-mixins says "Mixin packages are part of the How to use Backpack modules extension to the Haskell module system." |
| 2025-08-28 10:10:32 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 10:10:53 +0200 | <sm> | https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/stable/how-to-use-backpack.html mentions "mix-in linking" a few times. But it's not clear if these things are essentially the same feature, or two features that overlap |
| 2025-08-28 10:12:14 +0200 | <Franciman> | ah ok |
| 2025-08-28 10:13:05 +0200 | <sm> | Also for anyone curious, this seems to be the main history of stack backpack support so far (2016..2024-08): |
| 2025-08-28 10:13:11 +0200 | <sm> | https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/issues/2540 |
| 2025-08-28 10:13:14 +0200 | <sm> | https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/issues/4745 |
| 2025-08-28 10:13:17 +0200 | <sm> | https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/issues/6356 |
| 2025-08-28 10:14:36 +0200 | chiselfuse | (~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-08-28 10:15:13 +0200 | chiselfuse | (~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse) chiselfuse |
| 2025-08-28 10:15:17 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 10:19:01 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7171930a0d4799db13e1f65.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk |
| 2025-08-28 10:19:59 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:2ca2:a28f:2f37:22f6) |
| 2025-08-28 10:19:59 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:2ca2:a28f:2f37:22f6) (Changing host) |
| 2025-08-28 10:19:59 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit |
| 2025-08-28 10:20:16 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 10:22:16 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> ezyang's initial comment suggests that use of backpack in private/internal/sub libraries may just work; exposing backpack signatures in the public library is the problem |
| 2025-08-28 10:22:56 +0200 | <yushyin> | I sometimes use mixins in my cabal files |
| 2025-08-28 10:23:50 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:6941:8da5:79d5:ac1b) |
| 2025-08-28 10:24:14 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 10:27:42 +0200 | <sm> | yushyin, can stack build those packages ? |
| 2025-08-28 10:29:03 +0200 | <yushyin> | Dunno, but stack repl doesn't work with mixins. One reason why I stopped using stack |
| 2025-08-28 10:29:58 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> are any of them public ? I'm curious |
| 2025-08-28 10:31:04 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 10:31:35 +0200 | <Franciman> | yushyin: i personally avoid cabal too |
| 2025-08-28 10:31:46 +0200 | <Franciman> | boot packages + ghc is WAYYY GOOD |
| 2025-08-28 10:32:16 +0200 | <Franciman> | fortunately for programming in the large, cabal is quite good nowadays |
| 2025-08-28 10:32:51 +0200 | <yushyin> | sm: No, I don't use mixins in public repos as I know about stack not working with them |
| 2025-08-28 10:33:17 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> fair enough |
| 2025-08-28 10:33:23 +0200 | <Franciman> | is there any use case, nowadays, to use stack rather than cabal' |
| 2025-08-28 10:33:25 +0200 | <Franciman> | ? |
| 2025-08-28 10:33:49 +0200 | <Franciman> | iiuc stackage is purposefully obfuscated to avoid being compatible with cabal, but is ultimately a cabal freeze output |
| 2025-08-28 10:34:52 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> Franciman, I don't think yuc :) |
| 2025-08-28 10:36:01 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 10:36:04 +0200 | <Franciman> | what does yuc mean? |
| 2025-08-28 10:36:09 +0200 | <Franciman> | sorry |
| 2025-08-28 10:37:32 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> "you understand correctly" |
| 2025-08-28 10:37:42 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:2ca2:a28f:2f37:22f6) |
| 2025-08-28 10:37:42 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:2ca2:a28f:2f37:22f6) (Changing host) |
| 2025-08-28 10:37:42 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit |
| 2025-08-28 10:37:55 +0200 | <Franciman> | ty |
| 2025-08-28 10:39:07 +0200 | darkling | (~darkling@2001-ba8-1f1-f0e6-0-0-0-2.autov6rev.bitfolk.space) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-08-28 10:39:17 +0200 | darkling | (~darkling@2001-ba8-1f1-f0e6-0-0-0-2.autov6rev.bitfolk.space) |
| 2025-08-28 10:40:30 +0200 | PaulMartensen | (15a119e437@2001:bc8:1210:2cd8::3bc) |
| 2025-08-28 10:41:36 +0200 | FANTOM | (~fantom@87.74.59.94) |
| 2025-08-28 10:41:37 +0200 | Guest8610 | (~paul@p200300d0c724c95b1313013fcbfec0be.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Guest8610) |
| 2025-08-28 10:42:20 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> the plot thickens once again: it seems there are private sublibraries, and public sublibraries, which should be considered separately |
| 2025-08-28 10:42:54 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 10:45:46 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> Franciman if you're asking seriously: many people, including myself, like stack for its greater focus on reproducibility, its generally better UX, and its relative lack of cruft and legacy baggage. |
| 2025-08-28 10:46:45 +0200 | trickard_ | trickard |
| 2025-08-28 10:46:51 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 10:47:05 +0200 | <Franciman> | i see sm thanks |
| 2025-08-28 10:50:57 +0200 | chele | (~chele@user/chele) chele |
| 2025-08-28 10:53:37 +0200 | FANTOM | (~fantom@87.74.59.94) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 10:54:03 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:2ca2:a28f:2f37:22f6) |
| 2025-08-28 10:54:03 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:2ca2:a28f:2f37:22f6) (Changing host) |
| 2025-08-28 10:54:03 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit |
| 2025-08-28 10:55:09 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 10:55:42 +0200 | literon | (~literon@2E8B6C41.catv.pool.telekom.hu) |
| 2025-08-28 10:58:25 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 11:02:22 +0200 | ubert1 | (~Thunderbi@178.165.186.86.wireless.dyn.drei.com) ubert |
| 2025-08-28 11:05:49 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 11:08:47 +0200 | kuribas | (~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) kuribas |
| 2025-08-28 11:09:06 +0200 | FANTOM | (~fantom@87.74.59.94) |
| 2025-08-28 11:09:31 +0200 | Square3 | (~Square4@user/square) Square |
| 2025-08-28 11:10:41 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 11:12:07 +0200 | tomboy64 | (~tomboy64@user/tomboy64) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 11:13:23 +0200 | tomboy64 | (~tomboy64@user/tomboy64) tomboy64 |
| 2025-08-28 11:17:59 +0200 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) gehmehgeh |
| 2025-08-28 11:20:40 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:2ca2:a28f:2f37:22f6) |
| 2025-08-28 11:20:40 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:2ca2:a28f:2f37:22f6) (Changing host) |
| 2025-08-28 11:20:40 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit |
| 2025-08-28 11:21:28 +0200 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 11:21:36 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 11:25:29 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 11:28:23 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 11:35:22 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@wireless-86-50-141-108.open.aalto.fi) fp |
| 2025-08-28 11:37:20 +0200 | lol_ | (~lol@2603:3016:1e01:b960:14c0:7a30:3283:d6ed) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 11:38:30 +0200 | jcarpenter2 | (~lol@96.78.87.197) |
| 2025-08-28 11:39:39 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 11:44:44 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 11:51:01 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 11:55:35 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:2ca2:a28f:2f37:22f6) |
| 2025-08-28 11:55:35 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:2ca2:a28f:2f37:22f6) (Changing host) |
| 2025-08-28 11:55:35 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit |
| 2025-08-28 11:56:01 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 11:59:37 +0200 | confusedalex | (~alex@user/confusedalex) confusedalex |
| 2025-08-28 11:59:45 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 12:00:31 +0200 | humasect | (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-08-28 12:02:04 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 12:02:06 +0200 | <kuribas> | I find OOP is just a more restricted version of using HOFs. |
| 2025-08-28 12:02:48 +0200 | <kuribas> | I can make a superclass, and call virtual functions inside a method, but it's just the same as having a HOF function taking helper functions. |
| 2025-08-28 12:06:17 +0200 | <ski> | a large part of it is programming with product types, with message-dispatching (as dual to sum types, with pattern-matching) |
| 2025-08-28 12:06:26 +0200 | Lycurgus | (~juan@user/Lycurgus) Lycurgus |
| 2025-08-28 12:06:54 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 12:07:51 +0200 | <ski> | (also the product types would typically be non-strict, leading to a closure-type implementation strategy (passing instance state / environment, to operations in vtable)) |
| 2025-08-28 12:10:00 +0200 | <kuribas> | The instance being the product type? |
| 2025-08-28 12:10:30 +0200 | gmg | (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2025-08-28 12:11:39 +0200 | <kuribas> | It's true, I don't often see sum types in OOP, usualy they are implicit Unions. |
| 2025-08-28 12:11:52 +0200 | <kuribas> | Using isinstance checks to distinguish between them. |
| 2025-08-28 12:12:11 +0200 | <kuribas> | In Python I often use "Class1 | Class2" instead of a sum type. |
| 2025-08-28 12:12:24 +0200 | h2t | (~h2t@user/h2t) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-08-28 12:12:25 +0200 | <kuribas> | But for parsing it's sometimes useful to have discriminated unios. |
| 2025-08-28 12:12:36 +0200 | <kuribas> | Then you get into the mess that is "pydantic". |
| 2025-08-28 12:12:39 +0200 | h2t | (~h2t@user/h2t) h2t |
| 2025-08-28 12:13:42 +0200 | <probie> | Java these days has pattern matching and you can pretend you have sum types via sealed interfaces, if you want that :p |
| 2025-08-28 12:14:10 +0200 | <kuribas> | like scala? |
| 2025-08-28 12:14:23 +0200 | <ski> | consider `data Queue a = forall q. MkQ {stateQ :: q,enQ :: a -> q -> q,deQ :: q -> Maybe (q,a)}' |
| 2025-08-28 12:14:41 +0200 | <ski> | you can then define wrappers, for invoking the methods |
| 2025-08-28 12:15:37 +0200 | davean | (~davean@davean.sciesnet.net) (Server closed connection) |
| 2025-08-28 12:15:55 +0200 | davean | (~davean@davean.sciesnet.net) davean |
| 2025-08-28 12:16:56 +0200 | <ski> | enqueue :: a -> Queue a -> Queue a |
| 2025-08-28 12:17:03 +0200 | <ski> | enqueue x (MkQ q enQ deQ) = MkQ (enQ x q) enQ deQ |
| 2025-08-28 12:17:05 +0200 | <ski> | and |
| 2025-08-28 12:17:12 +0200 | <ski> | dequeue :: Queue a -> Maybe (Queue a,a) |
| 2025-08-28 12:17:16 +0200 | <ski> | dequeue (MkQ q enQ deQ) = fmap (\(q,x) -> (MkQ q enQ deQ)) (deQ q) |
| 2025-08-28 12:17:24 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 12:17:33 +0200 | <ski> | and then you can define a class, like |
| 2025-08-28 12:18:28 +0200 | <kuribas> | I have sort of the opposite problem, I am writing python, but I don't see a good reason to use a class (other than being more "pythonic"). It just seems less flexible. |
| 2025-08-28 12:18:51 +0200 | <ski> | newListQueue :: Queue a |
| 2025-08-28 12:19:04 +0200 | <ski> | newListQueue = MkQ [] enQ deQ |
| 2025-08-28 12:19:08 +0200 | <ski> | where |
| 2025-08-28 12:19:18 +0200 | <ski> | enQ x xs = xs ++ [x] |
| 2025-08-28 12:19:28 +0200 | <ski> | deQ [ ] = Nothing |
| 2025-08-28 12:19:41 +0200 | <ski> | deQ (x:xs) = Just (xs,x) |
| 2025-08-28 12:19:58 +0200 | <ski> | and you can imagine more efficient implementations |
| 2025-08-28 12:21:39 +0200 | <ski> | but also note that another way to define this type `Queue a' (where the above type is basically `exists q. (q,a -> q -> q,q -> Maybe (q,a))'), recursively, as `data Queue a = MkQ {enQ :: a -> Queue a,deQ :: Maybe (Queue a,a)}' |
| 2025-08-28 12:22:25 +0200 | <ski> | (and then you're redefine the wrappers `enqueue' and `dequeue', for this representation) |
| 2025-08-28 12:22:39 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 12:23:20 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 12:23:39 +0200 | <ski> | "Using isinstance checks to distinguish between them." -- which is kinda a kludge. using VisitorPattern (which is basically CPS, Church representation) is in some sense more principled |
| 2025-08-28 12:24:37 +0200 | <Franciman> | what does principled mean? |
| 2025-08-28 12:24:48 +0200 | <probie> | less ad-hoc |
| 2025-08-28 12:25:59 +0200 | <ski> | if you don't have sealed, or something similar, there's no guarantee there won't be alternatives which are not covered |
| 2025-08-28 12:28:43 +0200 | <ski> | btw, if you imagine `codata Queue a where Enqueue :: a -> Queue a -> Queue a; Dequeue :: Queue a', then one could define `newListQueue' as |
| 2025-08-28 12:28:55 +0200 | <ski> | newListQueue :: Queue a |
| 2025-08-28 12:29:03 +0200 | <jreicher> | The correspondence (if any) between OO and FP is further confused by the OO concept of a class conflating type and implementation. |
| 2025-08-28 12:29:14 +0200 | <ski> | newListQueue = listQueue [] |
| 2025-08-28 12:29:21 +0200 | <ski> | where |
| 2025-08-28 12:29:21 +0200 | <jreicher> | IMO you really gotta be careful with that in OO |
| 2025-08-28 12:29:48 +0200 | <ski> | Enqueue x (listQueue xs) = listQueue (xs ++ [x]) |
| 2025-08-28 12:29:59 +0200 | <ski> | Dequeue (listQueue [ ]) = Nothing |
| 2025-08-28 12:30:12 +0200 | <ski> | Dequeue (listQueue (x:xs)) = Just (listQueue xs,x) |
| 2025-08-28 12:30:19 +0200 | <ski> | yes, jreicher |
| 2025-08-28 12:31:33 +0200 | <ski> | (`Enqueue' and `Dequeue' here are methods, and `listQueue' is basically the class / class constructor. `listQueue xs' is being defined, in terms of how it responds to "messages", being the methods) |
| 2025-08-28 12:31:58 +0200 | <Franciman> | i see OO as more of a ontological programme |
| 2025-08-28 12:32:25 +0200 | <Franciman> | than an actual way of implementing stuff. So while i agree that all OO languages bottle the implementation side |
| 2025-08-28 12:32:31 +0200 | <Franciman> | i wouldn't say FP is opposed to OO |
| 2025-08-28 12:32:45 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2025-08-28 12:32:54 +0200 | <ski> | "OO" can mean many different things (as can "FP") |
| 2025-08-28 12:33:08 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 12:33:15 +0200 | <Franciman> | the issue with OO is probably how they put mutable state inside things |
| 2025-08-28 12:33:19 +0200 | <Franciman> | in a non-controlled wy |
| 2025-08-28 12:33:27 +0200 | <ski> | one useful way to contrast and compare, is to focus on the product vs. sum type distinction |
| 2025-08-28 12:33:31 +0200 | lortabac | (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 12:33:31 +0200 | <jreicher> | My take is that FP is a high-level OO. It creates an manages the objects for you. |
| 2025-08-28 12:33:45 +0200 | <ski> | you can do immutable OO |
| 2025-08-28 12:33:57 +0200 | <ski> | (O'Haskell, later Timber, did this) |
| 2025-08-28 12:34:10 +0200 | <ski> | oh, and OCaml supports it, as well |
| 2025-08-28 12:34:16 +0200 | <jreicher> | I believe it's fairly well accepted that a closure is a prototypical immutable object, and a thunk is a prototypical mutable one. |
| 2025-08-28 12:34:49 +0200 | jreicher | (~user@user/jreicher) (Quit: In transit) |
| 2025-08-28 12:35:18 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | my take is the model of computation, math in the case of FP, a variety of things for OOP, i once said pure phenomenollogy |
| 2025-08-28 12:35:26 +0200 | <ski> | to me, "closure" is a particular implementation technique, used for delayed computation values (like first-class function values, "objects", continuations, promises, ..) |
| 2025-08-28 12:35:53 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | communicating objects is downtown OOP |
| 2025-08-28 12:35:56 +0200 | <ski> | "thunk" doesn't particularly convey any connotation of mutation, to me |
| 2025-08-28 12:36:00 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 2025-08-28 12:36:22 +0200 | <ski> | (it might imply mutation. but might also not imply it. depending on the particular case) |
| 2025-08-28 12:36:37 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) toonn |
| 2025-08-28 12:36:44 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | there's a legalistic 3 or 4 part qualifying list, encapsulation, inheritance, etc |
| 2025-08-28 12:36:47 +0200 | <ski> | in Scheme, "thunk" often refers to any procedure taking no parameters |
| 2025-08-28 12:36:56 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | polymorphism, i forget the other |
| 2025-08-28 12:38:01 +0200 | Lycurgus | remembers when OOP was new |
| 2025-08-28 12:38:23 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 12:38:27 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | and FP had already been araound a while |
| 2025-08-28 12:39:37 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:2ca2:a28f:2f37:22f6) |
| 2025-08-28 12:39:37 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:2ca2:a28f:2f37:22f6) (Changing host) |
| 2025-08-28 12:39:37 +0200 | arandombit | (~arandombi@user/arandombit) arandombit |
| 2025-08-28 12:39:55 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | biz likes OOP and it is foundational and presumed in modern data processing |
| 2025-08-28 12:41:22 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | but doers of this time were mostly born after OOP began and even after its universal adoption |
| 2025-08-28 12:41:40 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | in the 90s |
| 2025-08-28 12:42:43 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | the once exciting and magical is for them the old crusty and banal |
| 2025-08-28 12:43:04 +0200 | segfaultfizzbuzz | (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 12:44:23 +0200 | <ski> | <https://web.archive.org/web/20061014103835/http://community.schemewiki.org/?p=object-oriented-prog…> lists nine different aspects |
| 2025-08-28 12:45:49 +0200 | <ski> | encapsulation,protection,ad-hoc polymorphism,parametric polymorphism,everything is an object,all you can do is send a message,specification inheritance,implementation inheritance,sum-of-product-of-function pattern |
| 2025-08-28 12:46:39 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | yeah that list is bloated and repetitive |
| 2025-08-28 12:46:54 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be) |
| 2025-08-28 12:47:10 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | you could say st was the species specimen, model type whatever |
| 2025-08-28 12:47:25 +0200 | <ski> | SmallTalk ? |
| 2025-08-28 12:47:31 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | y |
| 2025-08-28 12:47:43 +0200 | <probie> | All I know is that Common Lisp's Object System often doesn't meet definitions of "object-oriented", which is a shame, because it's definitely one of my favourite object systems to work with |
| 2025-08-28 12:48:00 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | it also came about a decade later |
| 2025-08-28 12:48:49 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@wireless-86-50-141-108.open.aalto.fi) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2025-08-28 12:48:52 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | and in a sense didn really gel in stable stuff ppl actually use till much later |
| 2025-08-28 12:48:54 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2025-08-28 12:49:21 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | CLOS was shaky in my perception till after the turn of the century |
| 2025-08-28 12:49:54 +0200 | fp | (~Thunderbi@wireless-86-50-141-108.open.aalto.fi) fp |
| 2025-08-28 12:50:13 +0200 | <ski> | OO largely improved on design, by encouraging accessing state through a defined interface (making it easier to uphold representation invariants, and do possible validation), rather than arbitrarily reaching into state of one subsystem, from another sub-system |
| 2025-08-28 12:50:18 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | in terms of you could expect it would just work in an implementation |
| 2025-08-28 12:50:55 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | well you can see how transformative it is compared to the flat code scene b4 it |
| 2025-08-28 12:51:03 +0200 | <ski> | (as compared to plain structured (but not necessarily modular) programming, that is) |
| 2025-08-28 12:51:28 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | 'structured programming' which produced pascal was the preceeding big thiing |
| 2025-08-28 12:51:39 +0200 | <ski> | right |
| 2025-08-28 12:52:32 +0200 | <Lycurgus> | which basically meant no uglu bowsl of spagheeti |
| 2025-08-28 12:52:32 +0200 | <ski> | insisting on single-entry and single-exit control structures (to avoid spaghetti programming) |