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2025-04-23 01:01:59 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-04-23 01:05:14 +0200 | <EvanR> | wow I dug up a very critical memo throwing activeVRML under the bus in 1995 https://www.naturalinnovation.org/vrml/vrml2/activevrml_comparison_12dec95.pdf |
2025-04-23 01:06:35 +0200 | <EvanR> | claiming the time varying behaviors are equivalent to objects getting events over time. That programmers naturally think in terms of procedures, do this, do that. Imperative programming, specifically in the form of java, is the future of the web |
2025-04-23 01:06:52 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-04-23 01:07:43 +0200 | <EvanR> | that ML has been trying for decades to make an optimizing enough compiler and so far failed, so OOP is better |
2025-04-23 01:07:59 +0200 | <EvanR> | (looks like they never heard of haskell) |
2025-04-23 01:09:00 +0200 | <EvanR> | today VRML is not really at thing and in the end directly using OpenGL or Vulkan in the browser is what won |
2025-04-23 01:09:17 +0200 | <EvanR> | thanks SGI |
2025-04-23 01:13:01 +0200 | <sm> | cool, cool. I remember when that was really hot |
2025-04-23 01:13:20 +0200 | <sm> | VR, man! It's crazy! |
2025-04-23 01:13:30 +0200 | <EvanR> | yeah two years ago! |
2025-04-23 01:13:33 +0200 | <EvanR> | time flies |
2025-04-23 01:14:00 +0200 | <EvanR> | zuckerberg's failed metaverse |
2025-04-23 01:14:34 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-04-23 01:15:37 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
2025-04-23 01:16:34 +0200 | jespada | (~jespada@r179-25-8-250.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) jespada |
2025-04-23 01:16:42 +0200 | <sm> | memo seems convincing |
2025-04-23 01:17:53 +0200 | jespada | (~jespada@r179-25-8-250.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Client Quit) |
2025-04-23 01:20:13 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-04-23 01:20:27 +0200 | <EvanR> | a summary of other proposals at the time https://rodger.global-linguist.com/a-short-history-of-vrml-2-0/ |
2025-04-23 01:21:05 +0200 | <sm> | also is it my imagination or is #haskell, IRC, matrix and the internet quieter than it used to be ? |
2025-04-23 01:21:32 +0200 | <EvanR> | which claims that ActiveVRML "lives on" |
2025-04-23 01:21:50 +0200 | EvanR | looks at haskellbridge |
2025-04-23 01:21:58 +0200 | sm | needs chat stats |
2025-04-23 01:21:59 +0200 | <EvanR> | hmm |
2025-04-23 01:22:35 +0200 | <geekosaur> | ircbrowse has them |
2025-04-23 01:23:06 +0200 | <geekosaur> | but yes, things have been quieter of late |
2025-04-23 01:23:16 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I think everyone's decamping for discord, sadly |
2025-04-23 01:23:52 +0200 | <int-e> | EvanR: VRChat is a thing and even Second Life still exists... I don't know what Zuck was thinking his company could offer to supplant those. |
2025-04-23 01:24:28 +0200 | <EvanR> | he had to do anything at the time to distract from the company's "issues" |
2025-04-23 01:24:36 +0200 | <EvanR> | didn't have to make sense |
2025-04-23 01:24:39 +0200 | <int-e> | But what level of accuracy for predicting the future do you really expect from "the future is video" guy. |
2025-04-23 01:24:49 +0200 | sprotte24 | (~sprotte24@134.245.44.88) (Quit: Leaving) |
2025-04-23 01:25:36 +0200 | comonad | (~comonad@p200300d0274ba5000a84624e077d746c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
2025-04-23 01:25:36 +0200 | <EvanR> | technically ActiveWorlds still exists |
2025-04-23 01:25:55 +0200 | <EvanR> | the future was there, in the past |
2025-04-23 01:26:35 +0200 | <int-e> | As for the ActiveVRML thing... it really feels like MS doing MS things: Take an evolving open standard, jump on the train but do things in a obnoxiously incompatible way. |
2025-04-23 01:27:26 +0200 | XZDX | (~XZDX@user/XZDX) (Quit: KVIrc 5.2.6 Quasar http://www.kvirc.net/) |
2025-04-23 01:29:32 +0200 | <EvanR> | yes, though it is funny, that it is basically FRP |
2025-04-23 01:29:35 +0200 | <int-e> | Ironically optimizing compilers won in the end, and people use GL from JS (and now Webassembly). |
2025-04-23 01:30:22 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-04-23 01:32:38 +0200 | <int-e> | EvanR: Yes. I saw that Conal Elliott was involved so that was an unexpected connection. |
2025-04-23 01:35:06 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-04-23 01:35:39 +0200 | <EvanR> | in the abstract to An Embedded Modeling Language Approach to |
2025-04-23 01:35:39 +0200 | <EvanR> | Interactive 3D and Multimedia Animation, it says "While interactive multimedia animation is a very compelling medium, few people are able to express themselves in it.". This was 1999 |
2025-04-23 01:35:55 +0200 | <EvanR> | before the era of terrible flash animation |
2025-04-23 01:36:16 +0200 | <EvanR> | where we all found out maybe it's good some people can't express themselves xD |
2025-04-23 01:37:26 +0200 | <EvanR> | one way or another, people got the VR they were promised but it was via imperative programming |
2025-04-23 01:46:02 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
2025-04-23 01:46:10 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-04-23 01:47:32 +0200 | <jackdk> | The Flash era also showed that the barrier to people expressing themselves was a tooling limitation, not a limitation of the people |
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2025-04-23 01:48:50 +0200 | jmcantrell_ | jmcantrell |
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2025-04-23 04:51:46 +0200 | j1n37- | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
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2025-04-23 05:06:17 +0200 | <monochrom> | Belated: IMO one should look at the ratio "how much the code optimizer achieves / how many human-hours thrown at code optimizer", it is OOP and C that failed miserably, and ML and Haskell that outperformed. |
2025-04-23 05:06:58 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-04-23 05:07:22 +0200 | <monochrom> | Like, miilions of dollars and millions of human-hours thrown at C optimization, and it's only 1.1x ideal assembly? That's miserable. |
2025-04-23 05:08:02 +0200 | <monochrom> | And merely 0.1% as much thrown at ML and Haskell, and that's already 2x C. |
2025-04-23 05:10:06 +0200 | rvalue | (~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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2025-04-23 05:13:02 +0200 | tavare | (~tavare@user/tavare) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-04-23 05:13:31 +0200 | <monochrom> | Not to mention how much money Sun/Oracle and IBM threw at Java summed up and still merely on par with GHC which gets a much smaller budget. |
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2025-04-23 05:25:22 +0200 | SoF7 | SoF |
2025-04-23 05:31:06 +0200 | aforemny | (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6ce5:1f00:ffd3:1d85:d158:aa27) aforemny |
2025-04-23 05:31:23 +0200 | ThePenguin1 | (~ThePengui@cust-95-80-24-166.csbnet.se) ThePenguin |
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2025-04-23 05:32:42 +0200 | ThePenguin1 | ThePenguin |
2025-04-23 05:33:30 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-04-23 05:35:26 +0200 | Leary | (~Leary@user/Leary/x-0910699) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-04-23 05:35:26 +0200 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-04-23 05:35:41 +0200 | Leary | (~Leary@user/Leary/x-0910699) Leary |
2025-04-23 05:36:42 +0200 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) ChaiTRex |
2025-04-23 05:37:39 +0200 | nek0 | (~nek0@user/nek0) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
2025-04-23 05:38:08 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-04-23 05:40:54 +0200 | michalz | (~michalz@185.246.207.203) |
2025-04-23 05:42:05 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
2025-04-23 05:42:58 +0200 | j1n37- | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-04-23 05:43:35 +0200 | _xor | (~xor@ip-66-42-132-175.dynamic.fuse.net) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)) |
2025-04-23 05:43:44 +0200 | _xor | (~xor@ip-66-42-132-175.dynamic.fuse.net) _xor |
2025-04-23 05:45:08 +0200 | tjbc_ | (~tjbc@user/fliife) fliife |
2025-04-23 05:45:32 +0200 | tjbc | (~tjbc@user/fliife) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-04-23 05:46:22 +0200 | __jmcantrell__ | (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Quit: WeeChat 4.6.1) |
2025-04-23 05:46:41 +0200 | _xor9 | (~xor@ip-66-42-132-175.dynamic.fuse.net) _xor |
2025-04-23 05:48:02 +0200 | ljdarj | (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Quit: ljdarj) |
2025-04-23 05:48:06 +0200 | _xor | (~xor@ip-66-42-132-175.dynamic.fuse.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-04-23 05:48:06 +0200 | _xor9 | _xor |
2025-04-23 05:49:11 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-04-23 05:51:16 +0200 | jaror | (~jaror@5070ACC7.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-04-23 05:51:35 +0200 | jaror | (~jaror@5070ACC7.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) |
2025-04-23 05:53:58 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-04-23 06:02:18 +0200 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-04-23 06:02:38 +0200 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) ChaiTRex |
2025-04-23 06:03:26 +0200 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-04-23 06:03:47 +0200 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) ChaiTRex |
2025-04-23 06:05:00 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-04-23 06:05:12 +0200 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-04-23 06:06:02 +0200 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) ChaiTRex |
2025-04-23 06:08:53 +0200 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
2025-04-23 06:09:16 +0200 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) ChaiTRex |
2025-04-23 06:10:49 +0200 | samahri | (~halloy304@2001:569:76fd:b00:c916:45b:5a2a:d00) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-04-23 06:11:12 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-04-23 06:19:38 +0200 | nek0 | (~nek0@user/nek0) nek0 |
2025-04-23 06:22:45 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-04-23 06:22:56 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> The world took the wrong direction and engineers tried to fix it (computers nowadays are magical and wonderful though) |
2025-04-23 06:23:49 +0200 | inca | (~inca@pool-96-255-212-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
2025-04-23 06:27:35 +0200 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Quit: ChaiTRex) |
2025-04-23 06:27:53 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
2025-04-23 06:28:32 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Not trusting anyone seems to lead to the least painful development experience. Add good types because you don't trust developers, automated tests because you don't trust beta testers, CI because you don't trust people running tests, CD because you don't trust people building programs, proper interview cycles because you don't trust your client's opinion, models because you don't trust your memory, prototypes... |
2025-04-23 06:28:37 +0200 | <haskellbridge> | ... because you don't trust your client's desires, flexible software design methods because you don't trust your designs, code reviews because you don't trust your coworkers, etc |
2025-04-23 06:34:04 +0200 | inca | (~inca@pool-96-255-212-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
2025-04-23 06:38:32 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-04-23 06:40:44 +0200 | inca | (~inca@pool-96-255-212-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
2025-04-23 06:43:03 +0200 | inca | (~inca@pool-96-255-212-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
2025-04-23 06:43:38 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
2025-04-23 06:47:30 +0200 | inca | (~inca@pool-96-255-212-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-04-23 06:54:17 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-04-23 06:55:15 +0200 | inca | (~inca@pool-96-255-212-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
2025-04-23 06:59:31 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-04-23 07:00:50 +0200 | inca | (~inca@pool-96-255-212-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-04-23 07:01:08 +0200 | adamCS_ | (~adamCS@pool-173-52-72-35.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) adamCS |
2025-04-23 07:02:07 +0200 | adamCS | (~adamCS@pool-173-52-72-35.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-04-23 07:02:08 +0200 | adamCS_ | adamCS |
2025-04-23 07:10:07 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-04-23 07:10:59 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@d8D86B601.access.telenet.be) |
2025-04-23 07:12:56 +0200 | inca | (~inca@pool-96-255-212-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
2025-04-23 07:14:59 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
2025-04-23 07:19:09 +0200 | inca | (~inca@pool-96-255-212-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
2025-04-23 07:21:16 +0200 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) ChaiTRex |
2025-04-23 07:25:53 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-04-23 07:30:20 +0200 | mike1127 | (~mike1127@syn-075-142-052-000.res.spectrum.com) |
2025-04-23 07:30:35 +0200 | <mike1127> | I' |
2025-04-23 07:31:26 +0200 | inca | (~inca@pool-96-255-212-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
2025-04-23 07:31:27 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-04-23 07:32:13 +0200 | <mike1127> | I'm writing code in the Error monad in which I throw errors that indicate implementation errors, sort of like failed asserts. I just realized that a lot of these would go away if I used List.NonEmpty. Is that usually a good idea? |
2025-04-23 07:35:56 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-04-23 07:40:24 +0200 | inca | (~inca@pool-96-255-212-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
2025-04-23 07:41:40 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-04-23 07:43:30 +0200 | cptaffe | (~cptaffe@user/cptaffe) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-04-23 07:44:13 +0200 | cptaffe | (~cptaffe@user/cptaffe) cptaffe |
2025-04-23 07:46:57 +0200 | mike1127 | (~mike1127@syn-075-142-052-000.res.spectrum.com) (Quit: Client closed) |
2025-04-23 07:48:44 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-04-23 07:51:12 +0200 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
2025-04-23 07:52:39 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) peterbecich |
2025-04-23 07:53:27 +0200 | inca | (~inca@pool-96-255-212-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
2025-04-23 07:59:24 +0200 | <c_wraith> | If the ergonomics work out, it's a great idea |
2025-04-23 07:59:43 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-04-23 08:00:20 +0200 | inca | (~inca@pool-96-255-212-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
2025-04-23 08:03:44 +0200 | jle` | (~jle`@2603:8001:3b00:11:3c94:fae0:e5ab:1351) (Quit: WeeChat 4.5.1) |
2025-04-23 08:04:30 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-04-23 08:05:00 +0200 | ChaiTRex | (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) ChaiTRex |
2025-04-23 08:08:01 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-04-23 08:08:19 +0200 | inca | (~inca@pool-96-255-212-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
2025-04-23 08:09:27 +0200 | ephilalethes | (~noumenon@103.175.213.105) noumenon |
2025-04-23 08:10:33 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@77.23.248.47) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-04-23 08:10:49 +0200 | euleritian | (~euleritia@dynamic-176-006-139-135.176.6.pool.telefonica.de) |
2025-04-23 08:12:41 +0200 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) sord937 |
2025-04-23 08:12:56 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-04-23 08:13:03 +0200 | inca | (~inca@pool-96-255-212-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
2025-04-23 08:13:51 +0200 | jle` | (~jle`@2603:8001:3b00:11:26f1:42f4:7093:ac0a) jle` |
2025-04-23 08:23:42 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-04-23 08:24:58 +0200 | inca | (~inca@pool-96-255-212-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
2025-04-23 08:25:29 +0200 | ephilalethes | (~noumenon@103.175.213.105) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-04-23 08:25:29 +0200 | peterbecich | (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
2025-04-23 08:29:00 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
2025-04-23 08:30:11 +0200 | inca | (~inca@pool-96-255-212-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-04-23 08:39:30 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-04-23 08:44:09 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
2025-04-23 08:47:20 +0200 | tromp | (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:81b9:54c7:add1:2ebe) |
2025-04-23 08:47:40 +0200 | EvanR | (~EvanR@user/evanr) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
2025-04-23 08:55:16 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
2025-04-23 08:56:21 +0200 | inca | (~inca@pool-96-255-212-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
2025-04-23 09:00:00 +0200 | caconym | (~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye) |
2025-04-23 09:00:03 +0200 | acidjnk | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e71c4f35189c4bef71fa2fe9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) acidjnk |
2025-04-23 09:00:14 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
2025-04-23 09:00:55 +0200 | caconym | (~caconym@user/caconym) caconym |
2025-04-23 09:02:13 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
2025-04-23 09:02:33 +0200 | j1n37 | (~j1n37@user/j1n37) j1n37 |
2025-04-23 09:08:13 +0200 | inca | (~inca@pool-96-255-212-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
2025-04-23 09:08:58 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |